Top Draw Consulting
Is this bull over 300"?
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
cnelk 27-Jan-19
altitude sick 27-Jan-19
altitude sick 27-Jan-19
Scar Finga 27-Jan-19
Dave 27-Jan-19
Treeline 27-Jan-19
MTNRCHR 27-Jan-19
otcWill 27-Jan-19
Billyvanness 27-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 27-Jan-19
Trial153 27-Jan-19
Kodiak 27-Jan-19
SteveB 27-Jan-19
Bowboy 27-Jan-19
welka 27-Jan-19
wyobullshooter 27-Jan-19
cnelk 27-Jan-19
Franklin 27-Jan-19
Bou'bound 27-Jan-19
LKH 27-Jan-19
Firsty 27-Jan-19
Teeton 27-Jan-19
ElkNut1 27-Jan-19
altitude sick 27-Jan-19
BullBuster 27-Jan-19
codya 27-Jan-19
Jaquomo 27-Jan-19
Kurt 27-Jan-19
sdkhunter 27-Jan-19
2 Points 27-Jan-19
Topgun 30-06 27-Jan-19
Surfbow 27-Jan-19
Glunker 27-Jan-19
Rackmastr 27-Jan-19
Chasin Bugles 27-Jan-19
WV Mountaineer 27-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 27-Jan-19
LUNG$HOT 27-Jan-19
Velvet muley 27-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 27-Jan-19
SixLomaz 27-Jan-19
Shawn 27-Jan-19
Whocares 27-Jan-19
GF 27-Jan-19
Billyvanness 27-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 27-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 27-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 27-Jan-19
Velvet muley 27-Jan-19
Kurt 27-Jan-19
Rock 27-Jan-19
JRABQ 27-Jan-19
JTV 27-Jan-19
nmwapiti 27-Jan-19
SBH 27-Jan-19
Slate 27-Jan-19
Ron Niziolek 27-Jan-19
Scar Finga 27-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 27-Jan-19
Glunt@work 27-Jan-19
BullBuster 27-Jan-19
LINK 27-Jan-19
Buck Norris 27-Jan-19
GF 27-Jan-19
cnelk 27-Jan-19
BOHNTR 27-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 27-Jan-19
Z Barebow 27-Jan-19
backstraps 27-Jan-19
GF 27-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 27-Jan-19
Brun 28-Jan-19
Adventurewriter 28-Jan-19
pav 28-Jan-19
Scar Finga 28-Jan-19
altitude sick 28-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 28-Jan-19
GF 28-Jan-19
smarba 28-Jan-19
Cheesehead Mike 28-Jan-19
goelk 28-Jan-19
DMTJAGER 28-Jan-19
TD 28-Jan-19
stealthycat 28-Jan-19
Glunt@work 28-Jan-19
tobywon 28-Jan-19
Dikndirt 28-Jan-19
BigRed 28-Jan-19
Kurt 28-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 28-Jan-19
deerslayer 28-Jan-19
Coyote 65 28-Jan-19
Ermine 28-Jan-19
Shug 28-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 28-Jan-19
BULELK1 29-Jan-19
tobywon 29-Jan-19
BigRed 29-Jan-19
otcWill 29-Jan-19
BigRed 29-Jan-19
Scar Finga 29-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 29-Jan-19
Scar Finga 29-Jan-19
wyobullshooter 29-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 29-Jan-19
JSW 29-Jan-19
Cheesehead Mike 29-Jan-19
Jaquomo 29-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 30-Jan-19
ohiohunter 30-Jan-19
altitude sick 30-Jan-19
altitude sick 30-Jan-19
cnelk 30-Jan-19
wkochevar 30-Jan-19
SBH 30-Jan-19
Dave 30-Jan-19
altitude sick 30-Jan-19
nmarchr 30-Jan-19
BigRed 30-Jan-19
pav 30-Jan-19
altitude sick 30-Jan-19
Jaquomo 30-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 30-Jan-19
nmarchr 30-Jan-19
altitude sick 30-Jan-19
altitude sick 30-Jan-19
cnelk 30-Jan-19
cnelk 30-Jan-19
Jaquomo 30-Jan-19
Jaquomo 30-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 30-Jan-19
Jaquomo 30-Jan-19
altitude sick 30-Jan-19
Jaquomo 30-Jan-19
GF 30-Jan-19
ohiohunter 30-Jan-19
cnelk 30-Jan-19
Jaquomo 30-Jan-19
Cheesehead Mike 30-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 30-Jan-19
Tdvorak 30-Jan-19
ElkNut1 30-Jan-19
BB 30-Jan-19
BB 30-Jan-19
cnelk 30-Jan-19
Billyvanness 30-Jan-19
codya 30-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 30-Jan-19
Coyote 65 30-Jan-19
IdyllwildArcher 31-Jan-19
altitude sick 31-Jan-19
pav 31-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 31-Jan-19
Billyvanness 31-Jan-19
wyobullshooter 31-Jan-19
Surfbow 31-Jan-19
Cheesehead Mike 31-Jan-19
BB 31-Jan-19
Treeline 31-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 31-Jan-19
Treeline 31-Jan-19
Brun 31-Jan-19
SBH 31-Jan-19
Rocky D 31-Jan-19
ohiohunter 31-Jan-19
Brun 31-Jan-19
Treeline 31-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 01-Feb-19
altitude sick 01-Feb-19
cnelk 01-Feb-19
Dave 01-Feb-19
altitude sick 01-Feb-19
Jaquomo 01-Feb-19
Dirk Diggler 01-Feb-19
Rocky D 01-Feb-19
GF 01-Feb-19
Treeline 01-Feb-19
sdkhunter 01-Feb-19
Brun 01-Feb-19
Coyote 65 01-Feb-19
altitude sick 01-Feb-19
Treeline 01-Feb-19
Dave 02-Feb-19
SBH 02-Feb-19
altitude sick 02-Feb-19
altitude sick 02-Feb-19
Treeline 02-Feb-19
altitude sick 02-Feb-19
Dave 02-Feb-19
Treeline 02-Feb-19
altitude sick 02-Feb-19
Treeline 02-Feb-19
Dave 02-Feb-19
bb 02-Feb-19
Treeline 02-Feb-19
Dave 02-Feb-19
Dirk Diggler 02-Feb-19
Ron Niziolek 02-Feb-19
Brun 02-Feb-19
Kurt 02-Feb-19
BOHNTR 02-Feb-19
Brun 02-Feb-19
Treeline 02-Feb-19
timberline53 02-Feb-19
Brun 02-Feb-19
timberline53 02-Feb-19
Brun 02-Feb-19
altitude sick 03-Feb-19
Treeline 03-Feb-19
Dave 03-Feb-19
altitude sick 03-Feb-19
altitude sick 03-Feb-19
altitude sick 03-Feb-19
Ucsdryder 03-Feb-19
ELKMAN 03-Feb-19
THP 03-Feb-19
timberline53 03-Feb-19
Brun 03-Feb-19
Brun 03-Feb-19
THP 03-Feb-19
RymanCat 03-Feb-19
Dave 04-Feb-19
Ucsdryder 04-Feb-19
Surfbow 04-Feb-19
THP 04-Feb-19
Brun 04-Feb-19
Brun 04-Feb-19
altitude sick 04-Feb-19
ohiohunter 04-Feb-19
Cheesehead Mike 04-Feb-19
ELKMAN 05-Feb-19
Dave 05-Feb-19
ohiohunter 05-Feb-19
Ucsdryder 05-Feb-19
Dave 05-Feb-19
bigeasygator 05-Feb-19
Cheesehead Mike 05-Feb-19
Ucsdryder 05-Feb-19
wyobullshooter 05-Feb-19
altitude sick 05-Feb-19
THP 05-Feb-19
Surfbow 05-Feb-19
bigeasygator 05-Feb-19
12yards 05-Feb-19
Brun 05-Feb-19
elkmo 05-Feb-19
Brun 05-Feb-19
From: cnelk
27-Jan-19

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo
It was asked on the other thread what this bull scores. The 300" mark is a very popular benchmark.

Does this bull break 300"?

27-Jan-19
Well over 300” Ears are usually 9-10” Nose to eye is 11-12” on a mature bull. Also the curve on the first 3 tines add a lot of inches. Not knowing the spread. Main beam length and the fourth and fifth beams are good. I know I wouldn’t pass this bull at this range. Anywhere

27-Jan-19
4th 5th (tines) Before all the editors jump on me.

From: Scar Finga
27-Jan-19
Don't matter, but I say it's close.... either way, I'd be very pleased with him hanging in my living room and in the freezer:) Is this a better picture than the other one in the shoot or don't shoot post, or am I just more awake now?

From: Dave
27-Jan-19
Only if you're an outfitter.

From: Treeline
27-Jan-19
Yes

From: MTNRCHR
27-Jan-19
yes

From: otcWill
27-Jan-19
Yep

27-Jan-19
Yessir

From: Ucsdryder
27-Jan-19
Easy

From: Trial153
27-Jan-19
Yes, weaker fronts but the good thirds and Fifths will carry him over.

From: Kodiak
27-Jan-19
I'd say yes.

From: SteveB
27-Jan-19
My guess is 315 “ish” depending on spread

From: Bowboy
27-Jan-19
Yes

From: welka
27-Jan-19
Close but no cigar 290 ish and looks like a young bull from pic.

27-Jan-19
Yep

From: cnelk
27-Jan-19
yeah - 315ish

From: Franklin
27-Jan-19
I would say yes....but he is actually more impressive than the actual score. The back end and whale tails makes him a beauty.

From: Bou'bound
27-Jan-19

Close Enough

From: LKH
27-Jan-19
I use 17" nose tip to antler base and this bull will make cnelk's numbers and maybe a bit more. I do that because it's easy to see in dim light and the eye can be tough.

From: Firsty
27-Jan-19
That bull is easley over 300

From: Teeton
27-Jan-19
I'd say for sure. Mite even break the 350 mark next year with the few that didnt shoot in the "will you take the shot thread".. :)

From: ElkNut1
27-Jan-19
I have him at 318" gross.

ElkNut/Paul

27-Jan-19
I think the main beams are approx 50” brow tines and thirds have good curve adding a lot

From: BullBuster
27-Jan-19
Low 300s no doubt

From: codya
27-Jan-19
320ish imo.

Maybe pushing 330

From: Jaquomo
27-Jan-19
Absolutely. Closer to 320 gross

From: Kurt
27-Jan-19
Barely over 300.

From: sdkhunter
27-Jan-19
Everyday and twice on Sunday.... easily over 300...

From: 2 Points
27-Jan-19
310-315

From: Topgun 30-06
27-Jan-19
Yep, about 320" would be my guess based just on that one picture.

From: Surfbow
27-Jan-19
Easily over 300"

From: Glunker
27-Jan-19
Over 320

From: Rackmastr
27-Jan-19
I'd say just over the 300 mark yep. Spread is a bit hard at that angle to say for sure but if I had 300 as a benchmark I'd shoot that bull without doubt as he's got enough to make me happy.

27-Jan-19
Probably not a lot of 200" something bulls running around out there with beams and 5ths like that. I'll take the over on 300" all day

27-Jan-19
. Yes. I'm guessing 320-330 or so. Aside from that, I could care less because he passed big enough a while back.

From: Dirk Diggler
27-Jan-19
All day

From: LUNG$HOT
27-Jan-19
That bulls measurements are “SHOOT”.

From: Velvet muley
27-Jan-19
It would be hard for anyone to accurately score that bull with only 1 photo like that. I would guess he's over 300 but not by much.

27-Jan-19
Some of you guys are crazy. You can't have 5ths and main beams that long and get some of these low scores you guys are coming up with.

From: SixLomaz
27-Jan-19
I do not see measurement numbers. All I see is a 340 spine FMJ arrow tipped with a Slick Trick standard 125 grains broadhead, arching on its way to the target. What a beautiful moment to live for. Ahhhh ....

From: Shawn
27-Jan-19
Yup, easily 315"s plus. Shawn

From: Whocares
27-Jan-19
310, if ya wanna know.

From: GF
27-Jan-19
JMO, only a complete dumbass would even ask that question.

That's a beautiful, mature bull with great color & character and he's in superb flesh, offering a hugely desirable shot angle at a distance which is either a slam dunk or a doesn't-matter-how-big-he-is-because-I'm-not-gonna-risk-it proposition.

If you have a bigger one on the wall already, then pass him up, but if you need a tape measure to tell you whether to shoot or not, you should go do something else before you kill a great animal and end up disappointed because of.... WHAT???

27-Jan-19
I agree with Ike... With those 4s and 5s plus beam length he would add up quickly. Any kind of spread at all and he’s well north of 300 easy. He’s also pretty prime body wise. Shoot

From: Dirk Diggler
27-Jan-19
Like has been said, tough with one pic, it's really just a guess. So heres mine, tell me where I'm off, no doubt I am somewhere.

Avg tine length 13" for 130"........... Beams 53" for106"........... Inside spread 34"......... Avg mass 6" for 48"......... Total 318"

From: Ucsdryder
27-Jan-19
Maybe BB will post a couple more pictures!!!

27-Jan-19
GF,

First off, calling people dumbasses that you don't even know is a very careless and classless remark to make.

Secondly, while all of your points after that are absolutely true, asking the question is simply academic as this bull was not killed and a lot of guys are interested for lots of different reasons, none of which take anything away from hunting or the animal.

From: Velvet muley
27-Jan-19
I think ball park is close with most of that but I don't see 50+" beams.

From: Kurt
27-Jan-19
Knock the beams to 48” and you get 308” using the rest of your estimates. A bit over 300”. But hard to judge off a single photo.

Also my reference is CO, mainly high country and different areas have different genetics.

From: Rock
27-Jan-19
290" - 310" would be my guess from this picture

From: JRABQ
27-Jan-19
My guess is around 310-ish.

And more importantly a shooter for me.

From: JTV
27-Jan-19
couldnt kill him, that darn tree is in the way ;0)

From: nmwapiti
27-Jan-19
Easily

From: SBH
27-Jan-19
Man.......I think that is a beautiful bull. Nice 3rds, great 4ths...love the whale tale. I dunno, I'd put him at right around 315........ He's just a really great looking bull. Nice pic.

From: Slate
27-Jan-19
It’s a beauty I say over

From: Ron Niziolek
27-Jan-19
Pretty easy. Like others guessed, I'd put him right in the 320 range.

From: Scar Finga
27-Jan-19
As I said, Who really cars??? Not Me! Dead Bull, Beautiful rack and delicious meat!

EDITED, because I am blind:/

Probably has crazy potential in 1-2 years, but he would never live that long to find out:)

From: Ucsdryder
27-Jan-19
Scar, not sure I understand your post but it sounds like you’re referring to that bull as a big 5 with whales. That is a 6x6.

From: Glunt@work
27-Jan-19
I would guess him at 700#+

From: BullBuster
27-Jan-19
GF get a life. It’s a fun excercise. U don’t have to participate.

From: LINK
27-Jan-19
My initial thought was close to 330”. His fronts and thirds are a bit lacking for a bull of that class but his beams are looong. I say easy 320”

From: Buck Norris
27-Jan-19
Over 300 without a doubt.

From: GF
27-Jan-19
Ike/Buster -

FWIW, I agree with you on many levels.

If a guy just wants to understand how the scoring system works, that’s fine. Learning a new language, as it were. I’ve scored most of my deer mostly because I figured it would give me a better idea of what the hell people actually MEAN when they’re telling about a “140-class” buck. Kind of s “how Big is Big?” deal...

My point is simply that if the P&Y score matters in your Shoot/Don’t Shoot decision-making process, then what you’re hunting for cannot be found in the woods, on the plains, or out in the muskeg.

And JMO, that crap is going to be the death of Hunting. Rational Non-hunters (at least those who eat meat) cannot logically object to hunting for Meat or Recreation (provided there is no Wanton Waste).

“Trophy Hunting” is a perversion. All about recognition for the Mighty Hunter; not at all about Fair Chase, Sportsmanship, or the procurement of an honest meal.

And so I’ll not back away from the idea that only a complete dumbass would consider the Score before deciding to shoot this bull or find another.

It’s either Big Enough or it’s not. If you need P&Y to validate the decision, then you should play Scrabble or Golf or Poker.

From: cnelk
27-Jan-19

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo

From: BOHNTR
27-Jan-19
GF:

Just go away....nobody will miss you! :)

27-Jan-19
GF, Shane Mahoney did an amazing two-part article on trophy hunting in "Ethic," the official publication of the Pope & Young Club. I'd recommend it. He explains it better than I can. He also has several pieces on Youtube regarding trophy hunting.

I agree, that trophy hunting can be an abomination (if glory is all the hunter seeks, yet, I feel that's a small minority of hunters and the subject of another discussion), but Mahoney's point that we all have a trophy, whether it be the experience, the antler, or the meat, is something that I agree with.

FWIW, I hunt for the experience first, the meat second, and the antler last. Yet, I'm unashamed to call myself a trophy hunter. I stand before my prey and non-hunters with a clear conscious.

From: Z Barebow
27-Jan-19
Yes. I will give you the actual score after I bone him out and pack him to my truck. They are much easier to score when they are on the ground dead.

From: backstraps
27-Jan-19
2 on my wall that look similar. 320 ish

From: GF
27-Jan-19
And sadly, Ike, I’m afraid that puts you FIRMLY in the minority.

I’ve been doing this long enough to see Archery seasons overrun by technology-driven opportunists; from able-bodied, Crossbow-toting public land hunters in CT to now where the CO DOW is considering limiting archery tags to a lottery system because so many people are now willing to gamble the cost of a couple cases of beer on a cow-only archery tag that allows them to go do some legal, fully-armed Elk scouting ahead of the rifle season without losing their Rifle tag; if they kill a cow, they can either screw Rifle season (saving themselves the cost of a tag) or if they get a possible shot at a bull, they can just TAKE IT - and go buy a bull tag if they find it later on.

The barrier to participation in Archery season has gotten too low; the rewards for cheating the system have become too great; and it’s the people who’ve played by the same rules as were in place at the outset who are taking it in the shorts as a result.

None of the Compound Crowd can SEE it until they get pushed out of a favorite area by some Asshole with a Crossbow, but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Honestly, Ike, if I could count on going Elk Hunting this year, I’d invite you to share the Camp, on the mountain or off. If I find out I’m gonna make it this year, I’ll definitely let you know.

But I’ve gotta warm you up front; it won’t be what it used to be. There’s too damn many people out there now...

From: Ucsdryder
27-Jan-19
Gf has a point, maybe not aired in the right way or on the right thread. I want to shoot the biggest elk I can. That being said, I shot a 4 point with milk on his lips 2 years ago because I can only wait so long before the fear of an empty freezer drives me to shoot anything that moves. I like big racks, but I want pass up a small one either. ;)

From: Brun
28-Jan-19
I made my estimate on the other thread before I saw this one. I'm going 320.

28-Jan-19
Heck yeah I say and the dark horns polished tips add some cool factor

From: pav
28-Jan-19
Yes

From: Scar Finga
28-Jan-19
UCSDRyder,

I think I need to learn to count or at least start wearing my glasses when I am on the computer,... A quick look at the picture and I missed the fours:/ I was also up at 2:30AM, but now I am just making excuses! LOL... My Bad!!!! RETRACT ALL PREVIIOUS POSTS, and I now say in my enlightened state... Nice 6X6 and over 300!

Now I am going to make an eye doctor appointment!

28-Jan-19
Correct The score doesn’t matter. But it is fun to noodle it around when we can’t actually hunt them.

From: Ucsdryder
28-Jan-19
Lol scar! I’d rather count too few than too many!

From: GF
28-Jan-19
“I’d rather count too few than too many!”

True Dat. With one exception.... Out here a polished button counts as an antler and gets tagged accordingly. And once I walked up to a dead “doe” that had popped out a pair of 2” spikes when I wasn’t looking....

You know what sex tag you use on that?

D’oh!

From: smarba
28-Jan-19
Way over 300. I wouldn't pass him up anywhere.

28-Jan-19
I'd say 325-330 and I agree with the comments about the long beams and long 5ths.

I have a 285", 326" & 360" to compare him to. The bull in this picture is way bigger than my 285" and has beams and 5ths that resemble my 360". Last year I guessed my bull at 320"-330" gross and he taped out at 326" gross.

From: goelk
28-Jan-19
YEA

From: DMTJAGER
28-Jan-19
Id say yes based on width swords and whale tails. If I were in a unit where the average bull was sub 300 or most failed to make P&Y minimum no way I'd pass on this guy. Great looking bull.

From: TD
28-Jan-19
Glad ya passed on my bull GF...... mighty sporting of you..... =D

Yeah..... 300+ net even I'd think, pretty symmetrical. Biggest part is doesn't have the "Colorado 3rds".......heheheheheh..... Those tops are awesome......

Big bulls are pretty good eating too ya know, you epicurean elitists.... lots of that one to eat too.....

From: stealthycat
28-Jan-19
GF has good points

and that bull will score 320" +

From: Glunt@work
28-Jan-19
Based on my elk hunting choices in the past, I would not pass this bull...or one 3/4 as big...or one 1/2 as big...or the cow he was following.

From: tobywon
28-Jan-19
Man, some guys take themselves way to serious. This is simply a field judging exercise and its good to see what everyone thinks. No need to overthink it, just have fun with it.

From: Dikndirt
28-Jan-19
My guess would be 335

From: BigRed
28-Jan-19
To those that are saying 290's - 300, that's my guess as well. I have what could be that dude's twin bro hanging on my wall, and I swore when I dropped the string on him he was a 310-320 bull. Boy was I amazed when we put tape to him and found out he was only 290... But I still think he's a cool bull and grin every time I look at him on the wall!

From: Kurt
28-Jan-19
A 300” bull or bigger from an OTC unit in CO is a heck of a bull! Maybe not in high point draw units or other state’s drawings. Good luck hunting!

From: Ucsdryder
28-Jan-19
Big red, post a picture if you can. I always like seeing taped out bulls to guess.

From: deerslayer
28-Jan-19
I agree with Cheesehead Mike. 320-330"

From: Coyote 65
28-Jan-19
Threads like this should be banned. If you don't know what the score is don't tempt us.

If this were an AZ bull, then it is 340 plus.

Terry

From: Ermine
28-Jan-19
315-320

From: Shug
28-Jan-19
Is TBM back under a different name?

28-Jan-19
Your mom is over 300.

From: BULELK1
29-Jan-19
There are 21 'Scorables' on a Typical 6 x 6.

So if you are Off just 1 inch per Scorable, then a 280 bull would be a 300 bull

Or

A 300 bull would be a 280 bull

I'm still not seeing 300+ on this bull, High 200's Okay.

This is a fun thread.

Good luck, Robb

From: tobywon
29-Jan-19
Ike, that is gross...............not net :)

From: BigRed
29-Jan-19

BigRed's embedded Photo
Colorado Unit 76 bull
BigRed's embedded Photo
Colorado Unit 76 bull
Ucs… I'll play along. Here's my bull.

From: otcWill
29-Jan-19
287 and much smaller than the op bull. Nice bull!

From: BigRed
29-Jan-19
Pretty close Will, 288 and change. The OP bull has better seconds. That's what really held my bull back. My thirds and fourths may be a little stronger. The OP bull probably has a few inches more in length (better whale tail).

I'll hold by my guess, 290-300. Since the question was, "is this bull over 300" I'll say, possible...

From: Scar Finga
29-Jan-19
UCSDRyder,

I think I need to learn to count or at least start wearing my glasses when I am on the computer,... A quick look at the picture and I missed the fours:/ I was also up at 2:30AM, but now I am just making excuses! LOL... My Bad!!!! RETRACT ALL PREVIIOUS POSTS, and I now say in my enlightened state... Nice 6X6 and over 300!

Now I am going to make an eye doctor appointment!

From: Ucsdryder
29-Jan-19
Scar, think about all those 300” bulls you’ve been passing up with your bad eyes! Lol!!!

From: Scar Finga
29-Jan-19
I Know right! I thought that 360 was a 290! LOL

29-Jan-19
That’s ok, Scar. A whole bunch of people think that 290 was a 360! ;-)

Not referring to this thread BTW! lol!

From: Ucsdryder
29-Jan-19
I remember that one wyo!

From: JSW
29-Jan-19
At first glance, I put this bull at 320. Looking closer, probably 315, but I almost always guess on the low side. I would have shot him on all but about 3 of my elk hunts.

Bigred's bull has way smaller fronts than the bull in the picture. He looks 288. It's interesting that most of the guys who have him at under 300 don't live in elk country. Listen to the guys who hunt big elk every year and know what to look for.

The good thing about using P&Y measurements as a reference is being able to identify a mature animal. If you commit to shooting nothing under P&Y minimums or a 300" elk, you will have a longer, more satisfying hunt. Once you make that commitment, you will not believe the experiences you enjoy. I've never regretted holding out for a bigger animal. Ever! Even when I went home without.

I've only shot 2 animals in the past 10 years that didn't make P&Y minimums. I can't imagine anyone having more enjoyable hunts than I've experienced and it's all because I held out for something bigger.

29-Jan-19

Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Some people who see this pic guess that this bull is over 300" but it actually grosses 270"
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Some people who see this pic guess that this bull is over 300" but it actually grosses 270"
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
When I posted this on the meatpole with the 360" gross score some people doubted the score and thought it was closer to 300"
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
When I posted this on the meatpole with the 360" gross score some people doubted the score and thought it was closer to 300"
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Here's the 270" rack inside of the 360" rack for a little perspective.
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Here's the 270" rack inside of the 360" rack for a little perspective.
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
Cheesehead Mike's embedded Photo
I think it's very difficult to estimate score based on photos when you have nothing to compare the bull to for perspective. I think these photos help demonstrate that.

From: Jaquomo
29-Jan-19

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Or this one, which brought about a 60" range in guesses on an other thread... An inch or two here and there makes a big difference with 21measurements.

30-Jan-19
If you look at enough pictures of dead elk and see the measurements, you get an idea. Mike, your first bull obviously has short beams and if you're just looking at the length of the 5ths, I can see how you'd get thrown off. The OP's bull has main beams that reach back 1/2 of that bull's body. Once you have some perspective, then you can start to judge tine length and mass.

From: ohiohunter
30-Jan-19
Mike, I agree but Stevie Wonder could’ve told Helen Keller that your bull is over 300”.

My god, look at the distance between 4&5’s... not to mention length of the 4’s and 5’s and almost a 6th... never mind the SOLID 3rds.

30-Jan-19
For me. Comparing the rack of an animal walking with little reference and the picture angle taken from above the animal. And comparing it to a picture of Someone sitting behind an animal with that picture taken from below make it hard for some to seperate the two. Some see a 280 bull posed just right and compare it to the one above. I find it easier to use before and after pictures to educate myself. Comparing a posed animal with the one above usually will not work.

30-Jan-19

altitude sick's embedded Photo
altitude sick's embedded Photo

From: cnelk
30-Jan-19
Here is a short vid of a bull just before I shot him

He taped out at 295"

From: wkochevar
30-Jan-19
This thread just goes to show a lot of people don't know what a 300" bull looks like... and further promotes the idea that even fewer get shot than are reported. I have 3-4 very similar to this one and none of them made it...all high 290's

From: SBH
30-Jan-19
It also shows that 300" bull sightings and killings get thrown around a lot. Most of them aren't that big. The reality of it is, a 300" bull is a BIG bull and it takes a lot of antler to get there. Really gives you an appreciation for those bigger animals.

From: Dave
30-Jan-19
What the last 2 guys said^^^. Most guys think they know a 300 bull when they see one because they've been misled by outfitters and guides and by guys on forums who really haven't scored a lot of bulls claiming bulls are bigger than they are.

30-Jan-19
The video above clearly shows a 290” ish bull. Much shorter tines, beams than the OP picture. Again the angle of the original pic is from above making any animal look smaller.

From: nmarchr
30-Jan-19

nmarchr's embedded Photo
nmarchr's embedded Photo
300 1/8''

From: BigRed
30-Jan-19
Be careful guys.... They'll tell you that you don't live in "elk country" and have know idea how to judge big bulls... I'm sure their wives will tell that's not all they exaggerate about! ;)

nmarchr… Nice bull, and great example.

From: pav
30-Jan-19
No offense BigRed...and I don't live in elk country either...but you referenced your bull as "what could be that dude's twin bro". Those two bulls are nowhere close IMO. My initial reaction to the OP photo is easily over 300", probably closer to 320". Would have guessed your bull 280ish. Both good bulls, but if I had both in bow range...I know which one I'm shooting.

Jim, I can see where living in elk country could provide an advantage, but I can say with complete certainty....living in whitetail country doesn't seem to help alot of guys when it comes to field judging whitetail bucks! LOL!

30-Jan-19
All of Those posted above are very nice bulls to be proud of.

From: Jaquomo
30-Jan-19
BTW, the bull I posted above taped a couple inches over 300 gross, 289 net.

From: Ucsdryder
30-Jan-19
Jaq, I didnt post in yours because I was pretty confused but looking at the back antler you were holding onto, vs the antler closer to the camera, the back antler looked like it was a 300” bull and the front antler looked like it was a 360” bull! Camera angles!!!!! Nmarch picture is a great example. He’s so far behind the bull it makes it hard to judge.

From: nmarchr
30-Jan-19
Actually it’s not that I’m far back from the bull, it’s that the bull is quartering to the camera and I’m sitting flat on my butt rather than kneeling on a knee. I never try to take photos to make my animals seem bigger, I just take 100’s of photos and some come out good and others don’t. It’s too hard to judge animals based on photos.

30-Jan-19

altitude sick's embedded Photo
Being next to the head helps with accurate scale. Not behind the animal. We all have used the long arm fish photo technique.
altitude sick's embedded Photo
Being next to the head helps with accurate scale. Not behind the animal. We all have used the long arm fish photo technique.

30-Jan-19

altitude sick's embedded Photo
Another pose of the person next to the head for true scale. I purposely zoomed so my wife wouldn’t get mad for posting her pic. Obviously a gun kill
altitude sick's embedded Photo
Another pose of the person next to the head for true scale. I purposely zoomed so my wife wouldn’t get mad for posting her pic. Obviously a gun kill

From: cnelk
30-Jan-19

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo
This bull is not over 300. Taped out at 275”

From: cnelk
30-Jan-19

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo
My son’s 275” bull.

From: Jaquomo
30-Jan-19

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
UCSD, here's a live photo of the same bull above. 304 gross, 289 net,

From: Jaquomo
30-Jan-19

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
This one ended up grossing 301, net 286, I think. I passed him up on this day when i called him in because I was hunting one the next size bigger. Ended up shooting him with a few days left in the season.

From: Ucsdryder
30-Jan-19
Jaq any idea the break down of left and right side? Left side looks about 170 and right 130.

From: Jaquomo
30-Jan-19
Ucs, I can try to find the score sheet when I get back home. Honestly, most of the deduction was in that fifth, plus the normal odds and ends from side to side. He had two devil points that were deductions too. But overal he looks really symmetrical aside from the fifths. Cameras tend to create a "fish eye" effect, which is why someone sitting behind an animal even a little can create a distorted size perception. Edit: I just went in the basement and measured his 5ths. The closer one is 13", the further one is 7". So 6" of deductions right there, plus another 4" for the devil points.

30-Jan-19
Jaq. In my eyes. That is as pretty of a bull as they come. Beautiful looking rack. A trophy for sure. I’ve seen 360-390” AZ bulls that weren’t as pretty. Score much higher but straight beams and white bleached rack. Not that I would pass them of course, but as far as a bull you picture in your mind, your bull has it.

From: Jaquomo
30-Jan-19
Altitude sick, thats sorta what I thought too. I have a gorgeous 350+ bull on the wall that's symmetrical and very pretty, but there's something about that whale tail bull even though he's 50" smaller. Eye of the beholder.

From: GF
30-Jan-19
Can somebody help me out here with the definition of “Devil Points“?

And FWIW, it’s good to have a way to communicate “how big is Big?”, but it just kills me to think that a guy could have a great hunt, take a great Bull, and then talk himself into being disappointed just because of some stupid deductions rule....

Utter insanity. But o guess anybody who functions that way has paid good money for that disappointment, so he probably deserves it....

From: ohiohunter
30-Jan-19
Devil points run vertical off the base of the fronts.

From: cnelk
30-Jan-19
Ive never been disappointed in any elk Ive killed - bow or rifle

From: Jaquomo
30-Jan-19
On an elk, "devil points" typically occur either on the brows, or on the main beam near the brows.

GF, seems like many of those you reference are folks dead set on "making the book" and their guide either overestimates the size on the hoof, or is just a bad field judge. TV elk hunts routinely inflate the estimate vs. actual size, which may give some the wrong ideas. 270 bulls become "300" for the camera.

30-Jan-19
I don't field judge bulls by estimating lengths of tines, beams, width, etc. I just look at them and get an overall feel for their score and I'm almost always within 10" which is close enough for me.

I'm not at the point and probably never will be to the point that I care if a bull is over 300", well at least not until I hunt Arizona. I just try to hold out for a decent 6x6 and if he happens to break 300" that's just a bonus. I really don't care about score, for me it's just a way to reference and describe the bulls size.

I've killed 250", 270" & 285" 6x6's and they mean just as much to me as the ones over 300".

Last year I called a 330" class bull to within 30 yards, drew back but couldn't get a shot. An hour later I called a 260" class 6x6 to within 22 yards and drew back on him twice but couldn't get a clear shot. I would have been happy with no regrets if I would have killed him, even after the close call with the 330" bull. After that I passed up a couple smaller bulls. 4 days later I called in a 326" and killed him. Just luck of the draw that I didn't tag out on the 260" bull I guess...

From: Ucsdryder
30-Jan-19
Jaq you’re right. My eye keeps going to the 5th on the left side. It makes the whale look huge! I agree, beautiful bull. And brad, you’re right, I don’t care if it scores 180”, they’re all amazing.

From: Tdvorak
30-Jan-19
As the Old Dad would say, “hey, it’s your story. You can make it as big as you like.”

From: ElkNut1
30-Jan-19
Mike X2!! That's how elk hunting should be! Too many guys get so caught up in scores, you know kinda like trying to keep up with the Jonses! Things have really switched gears over the years for the worst!

We should all be proud we have our health & the will to want to hunt those elusive bastages!

ElkNut/Paul

From: BB
30-Jan-19

BB's embedded Photo
BB's embedded Photo
My son talked to me about this thread and I see a couple ask if I might put another photo or two on to give you a better idea, as it is hard to judge some elk with just one view. Here's another that might make a few of you change your guess--maybe some lower and maybe some higher. Anyway it the same bull but this time you get more of a front view of his antlers rather than just the side.

Have a great bow hunt. BB

From: BB
30-Jan-19

BB's embedded Photo
BB's embedded Photo
And here's a different bull. Just one photo for you and I think many will underestimate. He is a toad.

Have a great bowhunt. BB

From: cnelk
30-Jan-19
I think I may raise my 315".....

Thanks for the pics Bill

30-Jan-19
I like the front view and he’s a great bull, well over a lot of our guesses.

From: codya
30-Jan-19
I stand by guess of 320-330 with him being closer to 330 then 320 imo.

Thanks for the extra pic pops

30-Jan-19
Still think he's 290? Craziness.

The key to the first pic was that the bull was quartered away, that makes his fronts look small. You have to look at his main beams and not only how long they are reaching back to his mid body, but also how they are trying to grow G6s between the tips and the G5s. Once you have an idea of the main beam length, you can get an idea of what the mass really is because the usual way to judge mass is from a quartered to or frontal shot looking at the bases, but that's thrown off on a quartered away photo as demonstrated in reverse by the photos of the bulls at the end of the thread. I stick to my original post regarding this bull on the other thread that this is a good bull that a very rare guy would pass on. If after seeing BB's latest photos you still think this bull is in the 290-300 range, I just don't get it. This is a mature bull.

From: Coyote 65
30-Jan-19
When you are in the wood, and you see a 375-400 bull, I have only seen one close up and personal, there is no doubt.

Terry

31-Jan-19

IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
Yellow: 50 inch main beams.

Purple: Not the kind of mass that any bull will carry past his 4ths unless he's a mature bull.

31-Jan-19
Again it’s the angles. The one showing his true size is from slightly below not from above like the first one. It’s fun to go back and read the posts now. Of course most of us agree, very few are scoring this bull on the hoof. We are shooting.

From: pav
31-Jan-19
So much for the weak fronts and average thirds from the first photo! Talk about a different angle changing perspective! Note to self.....320"?... maybe a year or two prior!

From: Ucsdryder
31-Jan-19
Lol awesome BB. You’re the best! Where’s the “some people think every bull wandering the woods is a 300” bull” people!

31-Jan-19
BB I’d love to see more pics of the second bull. You’re so correct, that’s a true monster.

31-Jan-19
Bill, thanks so much for sharing! Hope you’re doing well! Just one more example that you CANNOT make a definitive “guesstimate” from a single photo.

From: Surfbow
31-Jan-19
Great pics BB, thanks!

31-Jan-19
Thanks BB, great pics!

I agree with Ike on the comments about judging based on beam length and mass. I'm happy with my original guess of 325-330 and realize now that I may have been a little conservative... Either way, I'm shooting.

From: BB
31-Jan-19

BB's embedded Photo
BB's embedded Photo
Here's one more of the bigger bull. Not a bad bull behind him either.

Have a great bow hunt. BB

From: Treeline
31-Jan-19
390+

From: Ucsdryder
31-Jan-19
My first thought was 380 but once again it’s hard without another view of the beam length. Look at those 4ths!!!!!

From: Treeline
31-Jan-19
Those beams are plenty long. So are the 3rds and 5ths. 1s and 2s are solid. Sticking to 390+ for BB’s # 2 bull.

From: Brun
31-Jan-19

Brun's embedded Photo
Brun's embedded Photo
I'm having fun with this thread so I thought I'd throw in another. Judging a big 5x5 is even harder in my opinion. This is a rifle kill, but thought it would be appropriate since we are just discussing how hard it is to judge size from one pic. Any guesses?

From: SBH
31-Jan-19
Love big 5s! Awesome bull Brun!! Look at those 3rds. My guess is 274". Its so hard to get a great score on a 5x5 but man are they cool.

From: Rocky D
31-Jan-19
Brun I think you have a ringer there. I’m not an elk expert but I’m going out on a limb 290.

From: ohiohunter
31-Jan-19
Considering it is obviously bigger than my 260” 5pt, I’m guessing high 90’s low 300’s

From: Brun
31-Jan-19
Just for a little perspective, the thirds and fourths on both sides are over 20". The guy in the pic is also about 6'4"

From: Treeline
31-Jan-19
Hell of a 5, Brun! Truly a once in several lifetimes bull.

A buddy of mine has a 346” net 5x5 from Nevada. This one here is not too far off of that one, but I am gonna call him 330” cause he’s a little shorter beamed and looks like he might be a bit off on the point length versus that bull.

GAWD I would love to shoot a 5x5 like that one!

From: Dirk Diggler
01-Feb-19
330 brun

01-Feb-19
335”

From: cnelk
01-Feb-19
Since the topic of this thread is bulls over 300", Im gonna guess that dandy 5x5 is well north of 300"

From: Dave
01-Feb-19
LOL. Those guesses are proof most guys on here don't have a clue when it comes to field judging.

01-Feb-19
So Dave what was your first guess on the original post. “It was only 300” if you are an Outfitter” Still sticking with that score? Way off!

From: Jaquomo
01-Feb-19
Dave's first guess proves he doesn't have a clue.

From: Dirk Diggler
01-Feb-19

Dirk Diggler's Link

From: Rocky D
01-Feb-19
Can’t wait to see what this 5 by scores. I really wanted to go 320 but stuck with 290.

From: GF
01-Feb-19
I sure am glad I don’t care about these scores, because I’m pretty sure I’d be lousy at it...

From: Treeline
01-Feb-19
Looking forward to the tale of the tape!

From: sdkhunter
01-Feb-19
That's a beautiful 5x5 - number that popped in my head was a little over 280, official guess 286 4/8" :-)

From: Brun
01-Feb-19
Dirk, Altitude and Treeline are all very close. We measured him at 341 gross. We didn't bother with net, but he surely has around 6 inches of deductions, so that would put him around 335. For those of you that guessed much lower, remember that on a 5x5 you still get 8 circumference measurements, so you only lose the 2 tine length measurements compared to a 6x6. Those are certainly important, but a large bull like this that is strong everywhere else can still rack up a lot of points. I had a front view of this bull also, but I can't seem to find it. If I can locate I will post for another perspective.

From: Coyote 65
01-Feb-19
Elk Foundation had a banquit that I attended, and as a fund raiser there was a guess the score of a 5x5. Winning score was 380. Still a little shy of the actual score.

Terry

01-Feb-19
Big 5s are so pretty.

From: Treeline
01-Feb-19
That is an awesome bull!

I couldn’t take my eyes off that one that my buddy has from Nevada.

Love a monster 5x5! Maybe one day will get lucky:-)

From: Dave
02-Feb-19

Dave's embedded Photo
Dave's embedded Photo
Dave's embedded Photo
Dave's embedded Photo
Alright, since some of you guys are such experts at making claims on bulls on the hoof without an actual measurement to prove you wrong, let's see how close you are on these where we have an actual measurement. What's the score on these?

From: SBH
02-Feb-19
Dang! I was way off on Bruns giant 5x5. I thought he looked big I just wouldn't let myself go there! Love that bull. Did not know you still got those other mass measurements but I still would have been way off.

Ok Dave I'm going 353" on the top pic and 264" on the bottom bull. Great tine length on both of them, smaller bull is skinny and short main beams but I bet he looked incredible from the front with those thirds!

02-Feb-19
Dave, we already guessed the others correctly. I think it was you that didn’t think the original was 300” When it was pretty clear it was well over that. Not even close to 300”. Everyone can be off by 10” from one bad angle. Or someone sitting 10’ behind the antlers.

02-Feb-19
With a quick glance Bottom one is 270-280”

From: Treeline
02-Feb-19
300-310” on Dave’s 6x6

320-330” on Dave’s big 5

02-Feb-19
To 6by is 297”

From: Dave
02-Feb-19
Keep em coming, you guys are proving me right. I'm digging up the score sheets from both bulls as I can't remember the exact number off the top of my head but some of you are way off. In the meantime, I'd like to get an opinion from someone with OFFICIAL scoring knowledge. My understanding about Brun's contention of 8 circumference measurements on a 5x is that is not correct. According to B&C, the 4th mass measurement is between the 4th and 5th points. In order for there to be a tine/point, it has to come off the mainbeam. Therefore, a 5x5 does not really have a 5th point that qualifies and there is no H4 mass measurement. I don't want speculation here. I want someone who KNOWS with certainty to comment.

From: Treeline
02-Feb-19
I’d be happy with any of ‘em!

02-Feb-19
Nice bulls. 260” and 250” am I getting warmer?

From: Treeline
02-Feb-19
Heck, maybe I’m way too high on my guesses... 260 and 280? After a closer look at that 5, his beams are shorter than Brun’s Bull up above...

Good pictures?

BTW you measure the H4 on a 5x5 at a point 1/2 way between the G4 and the tip.

From: Dave
02-Feb-19
Are you sure about that?? That is not what the Boone & Crockett Instructions say.

From: bb
02-Feb-19
350 top, 360 bottom

From: Treeline
02-Feb-19

Treeline's Link
P&Y score sheet. See page 2

From: Dave
02-Feb-19

Dave's Link
I find it odd that B&C and P&Y score these differently.

From: Dirk Diggler
02-Feb-19
I don't think they score it differently, I think they didn't go into detail on the B&C form like they did on the P&Y form.

From: Ron Niziolek
02-Feb-19
I'll play Dave. Gross scores 334 and 316.

From: Brun
02-Feb-19
Hey guys, I looked up the instructions before I posted that info. It does state that if a 5th point doesn't exist you measure half way between the 4th point and the tip of the main beam. I'm not smart enough to know how to post a link, but the site I looked on was called the Journal of Mountain Hunting and it had the B and C Official Guide / Measuring and Scoring Rocky Mountain Elk. As far as these two elk are concerned, I'm guessing the 6x6 at right around 300 and the second one, which actually has 6 on one side at 285. Both very nice bulls, congrats.

From: Kurt
02-Feb-19
6X about 300 net and 5X about 255 net

From: BOHNTR
02-Feb-19
Dave:

ALL antlered big game animals receive four (4) circumference measurements per side.....no mater the configuration of the antlers and/or amount of points......and yes, I’m an OM for both Clubs.

From: Brun
02-Feb-19

Brun's embedded Photo
Brun's embedded Photo
I found the front view of the 5x5 I posted earlier and am posting to give another perspective. I think we all agree that it becomes easier to judge with more than one view.

From: Treeline
02-Feb-19
Great bull Brun! Long fronts, great 3rds, 4ths and long beams!

From: timberline53
02-Feb-19

timberline53's embedded Photo
timberline53's embedded Photo
Well this has been a good thread--I guess I am not alone in having some difficulty in correctly judging bigger bulls. This is my unit 10 bull that I was certain would score 340 + when watching him and his 40 plus cows for over an hour at 800 yards with 15x56 binos. At 20 yards, just before I let the arrow loose, I could see the tine length weakness of the thirds, swords and tops but he still looked so magnificent being wide and heavy---and I was so grateful for the "gift" that I didn't hesitate but for only an instant. So I had him officially measured for Pope and Young by Ron McCoy in Hotchkiss......what do you reckon he actually scored?

From: Brun
02-Feb-19
I'm guessing 325 gross. Great bull!

From: timberline53
02-Feb-19

timberline53's embedded Photo
timberline53's embedded Photo
Okay so here is a more true to size photo that makes him easier to judge. I will admit that I was surprised at how low he scored, but I can truthfully say that I am thrilled with the bull, and thankful to have had such a great hunt. A quick, clean kill, amazing time spent with family and friends, and the steaks that grace our table, certainly can't be measured in inches!

From: Brun
02-Feb-19
This proves again how difficult it can be to judge an animal from one picture. Everything you say about the true value of the hunt is certainly true, but since we're playing the guessing game I'll drop my guess by about 20 inches. That first shot really makes him look bigger.

03-Feb-19
Nice bull.

From: Treeline
03-Feb-19
Got inside info so won’t guess on timberline’s bull.

As he says, there is so very much more to a trophy animal than a score. If you are hung up on scores, you are missing so much in this great sport of ours.

Congratulations again on a great bull and a great hunt!

From: Dave
03-Feb-19

Dave's embedded Photo
Dave's embedded Photo
Another photo of the 6x6. Anybody choose to revise their estimates?

03-Feb-19
220”?

03-Feb-19
Seriously 305-310” The 5x5 is around 280”

03-Feb-19
And Again the score does not matter at all. It’s a great bull. But it’s fun guessing since we can’t hunt them.

From: Ucsdryder
03-Feb-19
Dave just over 300”.

Timberline, 308”

From: ELKMAN
03-Feb-19
All fun, but score don't matter. I'm guessing all those adventures/experiences score a solid 10 in the hunters hearts... (At least I hope so)

From: THP
03-Feb-19
Cnelk 334 gross timberline 318 gross Daves 6x6's 324 gross

From: timberline53
03-Feb-19
My bull I thought was 330 minimum was measured at 323 gross and 311 net so some of you were very close! Daves bull looks a bit longer in tine length so I say 328 gross

From: Brun
03-Feb-19

Brun's embedded Photo
Brun's embedded Photo
Ok, I'm officially bored with Super Bowl hype, so here's a couple views of another bull. Have at it.

From: Brun
03-Feb-19

Brun's embedded Photo
Brun's embedded Photo

From: THP
03-Feb-19
Wow killer 3rds! at first glance was thinking close to 370+ but main beams seem short and not real heavy. So im going to guess 345 gross

From: RymanCat
03-Feb-19
Tape don't lie but he looks good enough to shoot to me. I wouldn't ask unless I had the paper in my hand.

From: Dave
04-Feb-19
Neither of my bulls are over 300. It takes a lot of bone to get over 300 which is my point and guys who don't honestly score their bulls and allow outfitters to do it for them or who believe everything they read online are misled into thinking that bulls are bigger than they really are. I've had outfitters measure bulls and then re-measured them myself when I got home and got dramatically lower numbers. They want you to think you killed something bigger than you really did and embellish the measurements for you and for potential future clients. The 6x6 measured 296 6/8" and the 5x6 measured 281 4/8". Out of the guesses on the 6x6, 9 of the 10 guesses had him at over 300 with some as much as 50" over. Only one had him lower. Out of the guesses on the 5x6, 4 had him lower than 300(not surprising) but 3 still had him higher than 300.

From: Ucsdryder
04-Feb-19
Dave are those scores net or gross? I guessed just over 300”, pretty dang close.

From: Surfbow
04-Feb-19

Surfbow's embedded Photo
Surfbow's embedded Photo
Surfbow's embedded Photo
Surfbow's embedded Photo
This is fun, I'll play for Dave's sake, I have the score...

From: THP
04-Feb-19
Whats the gross score dave?

From: Brun
04-Feb-19
Dave, you are right that most people probably overestimate a little, but I'm sure the guesses were for gross score, not net. I never even think about net when looking at a bull and I guessed right at 300, and 285 on your two bulls, which is basically right on. I also looked at all the guesses, and only 4 people were over 320, which is pretty far off, but 4 others guessed 310 or less. These guesses were very close, especially considering deductions. That is a 300 class bull, as half of the respondents guessed. Your contention that 9 of 10 got it wrong is simply not accurate.

From: Brun
04-Feb-19
Surfbow, great bull, congrats. It looks a lot like Dave's to me, so I'm guessing 300-310 gross.

04-Feb-19
Dave I looked at your post for 30 seconds and my initial hues was 297” for the 6x6 and 270-280 for the 5x6.

From: ohiohunter
04-Feb-19
Dave, we are all REAL sorry the outfitter lied to you about the score, but you don't have to take it out on us. A good therapist and some medication should smooth you out and help you accept the 350" bull your guide said you shot was really 285". Just think, September isn't that far off and all that guide money burning a hole in your pocket will be put to good use on another fine 260" bull. We wish you the best, and look forward to not reading anymore of your pissy posts.

04-Feb-19
Looks like Dave's sole mission is an attempt to point out that he's right and everybody else is wrong.

I didn't guess on either of his bulls but being within 10"-20" is close enough for me...

And no outfitter has ever measured my bulls or even touched them, other than the one time I had an outfitter pack one out on a horse for me. And he was more concerned about keeping the nut sack to stretch over his saddle-horn than he was with measuring antlers.

From: ELKMAN
05-Feb-19
Looks like Dave doesn't know that "Nets" are for fish...

From: Dave
05-Feb-19
My scores are gross scores. I don't care about nets. So, nice try whiners. If you want the net scores, it'll even prove me more right than I already was.

From: ohiohunter
05-Feb-19
Dave must be stuck in traffic on highway 1 in his Prius, that would make me edgy too.

From: Ucsdryder
05-Feb-19
Dave I’m confused. You said the op bull wouldn’t hit 300 and it’s obviously a 360”. Then a bunch of people called your bull a 300” bull which it is. And now you’re angry and calling people whiners. What am I missing here?

From: Dave
05-Feb-19
Yep, you're confused alright. First, the OP's bull is not even close to 360 and second, most people wrongfully estimated my bull at over 300 which it isn't.

From: bigeasygator
05-Feb-19

bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
I’ll add one more to the mix. Rifle kill from a few years ago. Guess away!

05-Feb-19
Okay Dave, we got your point... your bulls aren't as big as you wanted them to be ;^)

From: Ucsdryder
05-Feb-19

Ucsdryder's embedded Photo
Ucsdryder's embedded Photo
Dave, just how big do you think this bull is?

05-Feb-19
Classic case of bull envy. Wonder if that’s the only thing Dave’s envious about?

05-Feb-19
Big easy, My guess is that hoof is 15”

From: THP
05-Feb-19
Pics can definitely be deceiving. I enjoy these threads because it helps me improve my elk judging skills. Sometimes I'm close sometimes I'm way off. The bull I killed this year officially grossed 9" over what I thought he'd score from several trail cam pics. He akso had 12" in deductions so I really wasn't off that much. My wife has no idea what 6" is but I don't get pissy with her if she overestimates..lol

From: Surfbow
05-Feb-19
Good guess Brun, gross 315 3/8...

From: bigeasygator
05-Feb-19
Big easy, My guess is that hoof is 15”

The problem with him is that his other hoof suffers and while he scores high gross, the hoof deductions really hurt his net! haha Just trying to offer up plenty of perspective!!

From: 12yards
05-Feb-19
Holy heck you guys! Great bulls! Love that huge 5x5 of Bruns! Kind of like a giant 8 point whitetail.

From: Brun
05-Feb-19
Big Easy, cool looking bull, but I really don't know what to say as he is very unusual. I know I would shoot him. Congrats.

From: elkmo
05-Feb-19
TTT...yes

From: Brun
05-Feb-19
THP, just realized I never responded to your guess on the last bull I posted. You read it very well. The bottom half truly looks like a 370 bull, but the mains are pretty short and its also not real wide. 335 gross.

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