Summit Treestands
Play Bloodtrail Challenge 43 - Textbook
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 27-Jan-19
JTV 27-Jan-19
crankn101 27-Jan-19
SixLomaz 27-Jan-19
blackbear62 27-Jan-19
Pete-pec 27-Jan-19
Sunset 27-Jan-19
greenmountain 27-Jan-19
BC 27-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 27-Jan-19
GF 27-Jan-19
drycreek 27-Jan-19
Ambush 27-Jan-19
greg simon 27-Jan-19
Pete-pec 27-Jan-19
txhunter58 27-Jan-19
txhunter58 27-Jan-19
Bowbender 28-Jan-19
Bloodtrail 28-Jan-19
Lee 28-Jan-19
Bowbender 28-Jan-19
Brotsky 28-Jan-19
LBshooter 28-Jan-19
Glunt@work 28-Jan-19
PAbowhunter1064 28-Jan-19
Dirk Diggler 28-Jan-19
beckerbulldog 28-Jan-19
tobywon 28-Jan-19
Garbanzo 28-Jan-19
drycreek 28-Jan-19
12yards 28-Jan-19
stick n string 28-Jan-19
elkmtngear 28-Jan-19
DoorKnob 28-Jan-19
north560 28-Jan-19
drycreek 28-Jan-19
rgb 28-Jan-19
txhunter58 28-Jan-19
Bow Bullet 28-Jan-19
CurveBow 28-Jan-19
txhunter58 28-Jan-19
txhunter58 28-Jan-19
Glunt@work 28-Jan-19
Dave 29-Jan-19
Scar Finga 29-Jan-19
Walleyehunter02 29-Jan-19
Ambush 29-Jan-19
Ace 29-Jan-19
GF 29-Jan-19
steve 29-Jan-19
Bake 29-Jan-19
camoguy 29-Jan-19
GF 29-Jan-19
Bow Bullet 29-Jan-19
Trax 29-Jan-19
drycreek 29-Jan-19
Habitat 29-Jan-19
Bloodtrail 29-Jan-19
Ambush 29-Jan-19
Stekewood 29-Jan-19
Lee 29-Jan-19
elkmtngear 29-Jan-19
Teeton 29-Jan-19
RogBow 29-Jan-19
12yards 29-Jan-19
stick n string 29-Jan-19
DoorKnob 29-Jan-19
Lee 29-Jan-19
DoorKnob 30-Jan-19
DoorKnob 30-Jan-19
drycreek 30-Jan-19
Dave 30-Jan-19
Medicinemann 30-Jan-19
Fuzzy 30-Jan-19
Starfire 30-Jan-19
Milhouse 30-Jan-19
Milhouse 30-Jan-19
Ambush 30-Jan-19
drycreek 30-Jan-19
Brotsky 30-Jan-19
Milhouse 30-Jan-19
BuckBoy 30-Jan-19
Bloodtrail 30-Jan-19
Single bevel 30-Jan-19
Mpdh 30-Jan-19
Lee 30-Jan-19
12yards 30-Jan-19
Ambush 30-Jan-19
spike78 30-Jan-19
txhunter58 30-Jan-19
tracker980 30-Jan-19
txhunter58 30-Jan-19
DoorKnob 30-Jan-19
Ace 30-Jan-19
Rock 30-Jan-19
Ambush 30-Jan-19
Pat Lefemine 30-Jan-19
Ambush 30-Jan-19
Ucsdryder 30-Jan-19
drycreek 30-Jan-19
tradmt 30-Jan-19
DoorKnob 30-Jan-19
ki-ke 30-Jan-19
tradmt 30-Jan-19
drycreek 30-Jan-19
Ambush 30-Jan-19
Glunt@work 31-Jan-19
Bou'bound 31-Jan-19
greenmountain 31-Jan-19
tobywon 31-Jan-19
Bake 31-Jan-19
StickFlicker 31-Jan-19
JTV 31-Jan-19
Ron Niziolek 31-Jan-19
tradmt 31-Jan-19
Rut Nut 31-Jan-19
Lee 31-Jan-19
Ambush 31-Jan-19
stick n string 31-Jan-19
Boreal 31-Jan-19
Bloodtrail 31-Jan-19
stick n string 31-Jan-19
Glunt@work 31-Jan-19
Ambush 31-Jan-19
Bake 31-Jan-19
Boatman71 31-Jan-19
elkmtngear 31-Jan-19
12yards 31-Jan-19
Wayniac 31-Jan-19
Ambush 31-Jan-19
DoorKnob 31-Jan-19
drycreek 31-Jan-19
Jack Harris 31-Jan-19
stick n string 31-Jan-19
Teeton 31-Jan-19
Duke 31-Jan-19
wkochevar 31-Jan-19
8point 01-Feb-19
12yards 01-Feb-19
tobywon 01-Feb-19
PECO 01-Feb-19
Single bevel 01-Feb-19
JusPassin 01-Feb-19
Ambush 01-Feb-19
Bake 01-Feb-19
JTV 01-Feb-19
Stoneman 01-Feb-19
spike78 01-Feb-19
Nick Muche 01-Feb-19
Heritage 01-Feb-19
APauls 01-Feb-19
T Mac 01-Feb-19
Ron Niziolek 01-Feb-19
Bloodtrail 01-Feb-19
BOHUNTER09 01-Feb-19
Heritage 01-Feb-19
drycreek 01-Feb-19
greg simon 02-Feb-19
Dave 02-Feb-19
Katahdin 02-Feb-19
Olink 02-Feb-19
Olink 02-Feb-19
Glunt@work 02-Feb-19
Ambush 02-Feb-19
x-man 02-Feb-19
dean j 02-Feb-19
dm/wolfskin 02-Feb-19
JTV 02-Feb-19
dg72a 03-Feb-19
Dr. Deer 03-Feb-19
T Mac 03-Feb-19
JusPassin 03-Feb-19
Ambush 03-Feb-19
Bou'bound 03-Feb-19
Kevin Speicher 03-Feb-19
Ambush 03-Feb-19
DoorKnob 03-Feb-19
JTV 03-Feb-19
tundrajumper 03-Feb-19
Geno 03-Feb-19
Lee 03-Feb-19
Ambush 03-Feb-19
TKrets 03-Feb-19
Deebz 04-Feb-19
elkmtngear 04-Feb-19
APauls 04-Feb-19
Russell 04-Feb-19
Matt Palmquist 04-Feb-19
Rut Nut 04-Feb-19
12yards 04-Feb-19
stick n string 04-Feb-19
switchback 04-Feb-19
RED ONE 04-Feb-19
Buffalo1 04-Feb-19
12yards 05-Feb-19
greenmountain 05-Feb-19
Pat Lefemine 05-Feb-19
12yards 05-Feb-19
Pat Lefemine 05-Feb-19
switchback 05-Feb-19
Pat Lefemine 05-Feb-19
Deebz 05-Feb-19
tradmt 05-Feb-19
Matt Palmquist 06-Feb-19
12yards 06-Feb-19
Smitty59 06-Feb-19
Smitty59 06-Feb-19
Pat Lefemine 06-Feb-19
drycreek 06-Feb-19
Smitty59 06-Feb-19
GF 06-Feb-19
Heat 06-Feb-19
Smitty59 06-Feb-19
Smitty59 06-Feb-19
Smitty59 06-Feb-19
Glunt@work 07-Feb-19
12yards 07-Feb-19
Ambush 07-Feb-19
bigbuckbob 08-Feb-19
10ring 09-Feb-19
woodsdog 19-Feb-19
From: Pat Lefemine
27-Jan-19

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Textbook Edition
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Textbook Edition

Pat Lefemine's Link
Our first Bloodtrail Game for 2019 should be easy for anyone who considers themselves an experienced tracker. A new clue every day for 8 days.

From: JTV
27-Jan-19
'bout time ;0) .... so far, so good ....

From: crankn101
27-Jan-19
Dont know how to play and the pic is kinda small.

Liver hit, dead animal within seconds to a few hours depending on exact shot location.

From: SixLomaz
27-Jan-19
Tricky from the start.

From: blackbear62
27-Jan-19
Tricky is right. Doesn't say whether shot is from picture perspective or from the ground blind. . Mark

From: Pete-pec
27-Jan-19
Tricky? Think of the four basic rules you were taught in hunters education.

From: Sunset
27-Jan-19

27-Jan-19
If you put yourself in the ground blind.... I didn't.

From: BC
27-Jan-19
What about the blind? B would be a great shot from there.

From: Ucsdryder
27-Jan-19
I call BS already. Obviously the shooter is at the blind. If the shooter is at the camera then there would never be a safe, ethical shot. I’m not shooting at the blind even if nobody is in it. So B provides the obvious and perfect shot.

From: GF
27-Jan-19
I “voted” for what I thought was True and I’m just glad that Pat agreed... ;)

From: drycreek
27-Jan-19
Windows ain't open on the blind as far as I can tell........

From: Ambush
27-Jan-19
If you just use a light arrow from a poorly tuned bow and a Rage, there is no danger of a pass through. All great TV bow shots. "Smoked him, just a bit back!!"

From: greg simon
27-Jan-19
Remember guys Pat is grading this test!!!

From: Pete-pec
27-Jan-19
Funny Ambush. You just described most outdoor channel 30 minute segments....minus 15 minutes of advertisement lol.

From: txhunter58
27-Jan-19
BC, B might be a "great" shot for you, but it is not a "perfect" shot. Quartering to and front leg back is not perfect. Yes, you can argue that you could kill that buck with that presentation, but it is not ideal.

Actually easier than most of these bloodtrails. Normally he would have put D as an option. That would have been tricky because it would be a perfect angle for the buck, but there is a deer behind. So that would have been a harder choice.

From: txhunter58
27-Jan-19
Double post

From: Bowbender
28-Jan-19
txhunter,

I think BC was referring to "B" being a great shot if you were sitting in the ground blind. Given Pat's proclivity for being a sneaky SOB, I assumed the shot was from the blind as well. And from the blind "B" is a perfect shot.

From: Bloodtrail
28-Jan-19
Pat, you're wrong again. I am using a mechanical broadhead on an arrow that is obviously much too light. I have no worries about a complete pass through.....ever. You don't take into account what we are using to lay the smackdown on that Big Joker of a swamp donkey in order to smoke 'em. ;)

From: Lee
28-Jan-19
I’m sure that blind is set there for a different wind and Pat is in the cameras perspective blind.

Lee

From: Bowbender
28-Jan-19
"I’m sure that blind is set there for a different wind and Pat is in the cameras perspective blind."

Yea cuz Pat never engages in subterfuge on these bloodtrails. lol

From: Brotsky
28-Jan-19
"Text book edition"....remember this is Pat's textbook. It's full of "alternative facts"! Ha!

From: LBshooter
28-Jan-19
First of all, no mention of blind or treed rand. Yes the photo is at ground level so I assumed it was a blind. Secondly, pic B has no deer behind it, not a great angle but you could do it. And finally since when do these lite weight arrows shooters worry about pass through lol, haven't you seen the hunting channels? None of those guys get pass through lol. If a tree stand was used those deer are dead.

From: Glunt@work
28-Jan-19
No shot from the blind is perfect because the camera man would be in danger. Not where Pat was headed but solves it for those assuming the shooter is in the blind.

28-Jan-19
Note to self....check this thread before answering Clue #2! I whiffed on Clue #1. Being a PA guy, if I don't take that shot in "B" from a ground blind, I'd be posting on VeganSite.com! LOL! Fun stuff, here! :)

From: Dirk Diggler
28-Jan-19
Is D not being an option in the multiple choice a clue?

28-Jan-19
I'd have taken the "A" shot. 25-1/2" draw length, 55 lbs, and shooting a rage hypodermic. I wouldn't have gotten a pass through, but a blood trail that Stevie Wonder could follow. If I was shooting a fixed blade, I'd wait for him to clear the other deer. Great way to start this one off!

From: tobywon
28-Jan-19
This thread sure is entertaining :) Now we are shooting from another perspective than the photo and taking shots because we don't think the arrow will pass through the deer. Got to love it.

From: Garbanzo
28-Jan-19
question 1 shows me 4 pictures but only has A,B or C options

From: drycreek
28-Jan-19
Clue number two had no shots I'd call perfect so I tried to anticipate Pat's crosswired thinking. Wrong again !

From: 12yards
28-Jan-19
The scary thing about 2 is how far of a shot and does Pat compensate for the deer possibly dropping. Choose wisely my friends.

28-Jan-19
He said point of impact, not aiming point.

From: elkmtngear
28-Jan-19
WWPD.... "What Would Pat Do"?

From: DoorKnob
28-Jan-19
I wanna know what he is using for bait !

From: north560
28-Jan-19
What happened to picture D looks like a good shot, if not why. I don't have a bow yet so not sure why that shot would not work.

From: drycreek
28-Jan-19
My perfect "point of impact" would be between C and D and just an inch or two farther forward, but what the hell do I know ? I didn't even draw back on a deer this year.......:-)

From: rgb
28-Jan-19
Knowing whether the shot is coming from the blind or the camera's angle would have been very useful information! Since the blind is obvious, I assumed the shot would come from the blind. Bad assumption apparently!

From: txhunter58
28-Jan-19
Again guys, the key word in question #1 is PERFECT. B is good, but not perfect. Think of it this way: If you had your choice of body presentation between B and D, which is better? If D is better, then how can you say B is perfect? I wondered "ground blind or tree stand" as well, but as worded, you have to assume you are taking the shot as presented, from the ground.

North: No, D is not even an option in the answers, which is surprising, as that would have made it harder to answer. But it also would not be perfect because there is a deer behind the buck. We can't say "I would wait until that deer clears" because the question is whether or not that is a perfect shot at THAT instant.

From: Bow Bullet
28-Jan-19
north560 - As txhunter58 points out, the issue with photo D is potentially hitting the deer on the far side. Granted if you made a perfect shot most often you probably won't also hit the other deer. But many shots aren't perfect. Look at the photo again and think about what could happen if you shoot over the near buck's back or hit it in the guts and get a pass-through. Even with a perfectly placed shot, sometimes an arrow will glance off a rib or leg bone and exit the animal on a different trajectory than what it started on and could result in also hitting the other deer.

From: CurveBow
28-Jan-19
What the heck. There are no background deer in picture B....... From either angle...

From: txhunter58
28-Jan-19
But is it "perfect"?

From: txhunter58
28-Jan-19
delete

From: Glunt@work
28-Jan-19
In "B" he is quartering towards and his leg is back. Killable? Yes, but "perfect" no.

From: Dave
29-Jan-19
Sorry Pat, but you're wrong on Question 2. D is the more lethal shot. Not saying it's necessarily where one should aim as the margin of error is slimmer but if your arrow hits there, it hits the heart which is more lethal than lungs. The question didn't ask where one should aim. It asks which one would be best if hit there.

From: Scar Finga
29-Jan-19
^^^ WHAT HE SAID^^^

I would take D over C any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

29-Jan-19
Agreed. ^^

From: Ambush
29-Jan-19
Pat probably figured some would be fooled by "point of impact" as opposed to "aiming point" and he was right. I thought hard about choosing the heart, but figured; mature buck with a lot of meat on his brisket, fairly heavy fur cover and I'd hate to skip off the bottom of the brisket. But I guess it is a heart shot from a blind chair after all.

From: Ace
29-Jan-19
You guys just wait until Pat does the Bloodtrail Alabama Redneck Edition.

That one involves Unreadable Clues, Boastful Claims, Tracking Spiders, Ham Blasters and a special scoring algorithm that translates the inches of antler into a "By Gosh" Southern equivalent!

From: GF
29-Jan-19
“Look at the photo again and think about what could happen if you shoot over the near buck's back or hit it in the guts and get a pass-through....”

I apologize if I’m inadvertently taking this out of context, BUT....

Seriously?? “What IF you get a pass-through?”???

And most of you guys are shooting Compounds, right??

Is the penetration with a mechanical head really THAT pathetic that you don’t fully expect a complete pass-through?

Because we have a guy on the wall whose wife - who is in her 60s - shoots a #40 stickbow, and she DOES get complete pass-throughs on those runty little deer they get down in IA.

Pat’s not joking about the TextBook thing here. This is Hunter Safety Day One, Chapter One kind of material. If you guys aren’t planning on a pass-through....

What are you thinking???

From: steve
29-Jan-19
Dave I agree with you 100 % that's why I GOT IT WRONG .lol

From: Bake
29-Jan-19
Look at how that deer is standing in question 2. D is NOT a heart shot. D is a brisket hit that could very well not be recovered. The heart is higher and further forward.

From: camoguy
29-Jan-19
Looks to me like arterial blood, but not from a chest wound. The blood is not sprayed or splattered in one direction. It appears that the deer stopped and stood and dripped blood, perhaps while watching it's backtrail.

The blood lacks the bubbly look of a lung hit. It also is not super dark like from a gut wound. I suspect a low shoulder hit that only caused a flesh wound.

I suspect that as clotting occurs this trail will go dead, because I think this is from a flesh wound like a leg hit, not a chest cavity wound.

From: GF
29-Jan-19
Where’s the second question??

From: Bow Bullet
29-Jan-19
Chill out GF. I was responding to someone who said they didn't even have a bow yet and obviously didn't recognize why D wasn't a good shot opportunity. And read what I wrote again. I didn't say "if you get a pass-through." I said "or hit it in the guts and get a pass-through."

From: Trax
29-Jan-19
Wasn't made clear if the hunter was shooting from the ground blind or not. That much is clear.

From: drycreek
29-Jan-19
Bake, if that deer drops to spin "D" could very well be a heart shot. Don't listen to me though, I not only got that one wrong, I got the third one wrong ( according to Pat :-) ).

From: Habitat
29-Jan-19
looks like shot is a tad quartering to,I bet arrow hit liver thats why I chose a longer tracking time

From: Bloodtrail
29-Jan-19
If this hit is anything like Pat's turkey, he should be jumping out the window of the blind and tackling the buck.......

From: Ambush
29-Jan-19
Typical celebrity bow hunter. "Smoked him!! Just a bit back." lol

From: Stekewood
29-Jan-19
I would have had pics done and the update for that day of the live hunt posted by then. ;-)

From: Lee
29-Jan-19
I too figure odds of a brisket shot on D are pretty high. That is a damn big deer and hitting him on the white belly hair line is not what I consider a good shot. MAY catch the heart, may not. Not worth the risk.

My .02

Lee

From: elkmtngear
29-Jan-19
Assuming "best" means the shortest recovery...what is better...cutting the great vessels ABOVE the heart, or hitting the left ventricle? Food for thought...

From: Teeton
29-Jan-19
Help I'm confused, am I shooting from the camera's perspective or from the blind in the back ground?

From: RogBow
29-Jan-19
Camera's perspective.

From: 12yards
29-Jan-19
I'm sorry, but the longest I'm waiting to look for that deer is if I have to pee on the way out.

29-Jan-19
I wont go immediately unless i see or hear him crash. But 45 minutes seemed beyond excessive to me. That one got me, sorry PA....

From: DoorKnob
29-Jan-19
I need a direct link to clue 2, I cant figure out how to get there. can some one help? Thanks!

From: Lee
29-Jan-19
Scroll down an you will see the next clues st the bottom

From: DoorKnob
30-Jan-19
Thank you lee. I found it. then I found the third clue. Is there supposed to be a vid or are we shooting at a flying deer er what? can someone hot link me up to the vid? thanks. (this has to be an issue with my browser and slow connection)

From: DoorKnob
30-Jan-19
I got it. notice that the arrow comes from significantly left of the cam

From: drycreek
30-Jan-19
Yeah I noticed that DoorKnob. Textbook my ass. :-)

From: Dave
30-Jan-19
"Look at how that deer is standing in question 2. D is NOT a heart shot. D is a brisket hit that could very well not be recovered. The heart is higher and further forward. "

Sorry, but you're wrong. POI at D from that angle is a heart shot.

From: Medicinemann
30-Jan-19
If the video for clue #3 is of a buck that Pat shot, it is clearly a dead deer.....but I am surprised that he took the shot with the near side leg so far back. His preference is for quartering away shots where the near side leg is not covering the vitals.

From: Fuzzy
30-Jan-19
I gave the right answer for #3 but there's no way I'd do it. LOL.

From: Starfire
30-Jan-19
Question three states is wrong. I put 45 minutes and then re-read the question. it says the "minimum reasonable time". I changed my answer to immediately because, although 45 might be the most reasonable, immediately is still reasonable considering the shot is pretty much textbook. If that deer wasn't down by the time you got out of the blind I'll humbly eat my words.

From: Milhouse
30-Jan-19
True, I would imagine that buck didn't live for 30 seconds after the shot.

From: Milhouse
30-Jan-19
True, I would imagine that buck didn't live for 30 seconds after the shot.

From: Ambush
30-Jan-19
You guys are confused. You have to guess what Pat DID, not what you would DO. You have to put yourself in Pat's head and think like him. And if you can do that, you will answer them all correct.

And if you can successfully think like Pat.................

.................may God have mercy on your soul!

From: drycreek
30-Jan-19
Ambush X2 !

From: Brotsky
30-Jan-19
LOL...you guys are right about number 3. In that amount of time I'd be having pancakes and bacon talking about what a great buck I had caped and hanging in the barn.

From: Milhouse
30-Jan-19
I'm not second guessing.....textbook probably says, wait a minimum of 45 minutes. I have watched enough deer expire in less than 30 seconds to know I won't always do a lot of things "by the book".

From: BuckBoy
30-Jan-19
Dead is dead!

From: Bloodtrail
30-Jan-19
True. If I hit that deer there.....it would drop in sight, and I'd be back at the cabin in 45 minutes.

Secondly, anyone notice where the arrow stuck into the ground behind the buck? It would have missed ANY deer behind it on a pass thru.....

From: Single bevel
30-Jan-19
Regarding question #1: If he ducks the arrow then the argument that guys are saying about a pass thru (or not) isn't an issue. Shooting with deer in the background is not wise.

Regarding #3: I got it wrong. That deer was dead on his feet. Given the fact that it was late day, and no weather forecast or coyote population was mentioned, I would go "immediately", which to me still takes a few minutes while I get gear together. If it was a morning or mid-day hit, then I agree with waiting on any hit.

From: Mpdh
30-Jan-19
I’m a little confused. Question 3 is the same as 1. When I put in my answer, it says I have already answered this question.

From: Lee
30-Jan-19
I agree - I was looking for 30 minutes which is what I’ve always been taught or seen BUT I’d have been gathering my gear to go look immediately! Many times I’m getting my tow rope out of my pocket right after the shot because I KNOW that deer is dead. Same here. Dead deer running. I put 45 down because that was the closest to 30 and I’ve never seen a “textbook” go look now.

Lee

From: 12yards
30-Jan-19
Anyhow, Pat is violating a huge safety rule. There's a blind in the background. What if someone snuck in there and was in that blind?

From: Ambush
30-Jan-19
"What if someone snuck in there and was in that blind?"

Yeah, what if a couple or more hippies were in there having sex and you nicked one, on the rise! Might get some crazy good penetration!

From: spike78
30-Jan-19
An immediate track job would be because of rain, snow, or dark coming it was none of these so why not wait a bit?

From: txhunter58
30-Jan-19
In the flash of an eye, when you are there in real time, you think?? It was a perfect shot and the deer is dead on its feet. Have you ever been “sure” of where you hit to find out later it was a little different than you remember??? I have. Therefore waiting 30-45 is always the best. Would hate to be wrong and jump him. With being able to replay the video, sure but how many have that in the field?

From: tracker980
30-Jan-19
I feel I got robbed on question 2! Should have at least gotten partial credit for that one. D is a heart shot and quickest kill IMO. Although its not where I would have aimed, it does answer the question the best in my eyes.

From: txhunter58
30-Jan-19
In the flash of an eye, when you are there in real time, you think?? It was a perfect shot and the deer is dead on its feet. Have you ever been “sure” of where you hit to find out later it was a little different than you remember??? I have. Therefore waiting 30-45 is always the best. Would hate to be wrong and jump him. With being able to replay the video, sure but how many have that in the field?

From: DoorKnob
30-Jan-19
The decision when to go is complicated. If the deer drops over and doesn't move again I approach with bow loaded and ready to go until I kick him for no response then touch his eyeball with the arrow to check for a response.

If he is in sight but alive you have more to think about.

If he runs off out of sight I usually take my time getting things together and down to the ground. I don't want to climb back up. I my or may not take the opportunity to call for help.

I go the scene of the crime and examine the evidence. By now it is 10 - 20 mins anyway. I carefully, slowly and quietly follow the blood gathering evidence. From there it varies all over the place.

Of the bucks I have kicked up (and back off immediately) almost always when you get back on them late night or next day you kick them again. making them work and bleed some more might be to your advantage.

It is not the simplest one size fits all.

From: Ace
30-Jan-19
Door Knob, I would guess that you never had the experience of being "sure" of your hit, (or having a friend SWEAR they hit him in the lungs) then, getting on the blood trail walking 40-60 yards and kicking one out of a bed. If it was a Liver hit, they frequently don't bleed much after that, and they can go a very long way. They will always die with a solid liver hit, but you stand an excellent chance of losing him.

I had the heartbreaking experience of doing that twice on liver hits by guys I know. One buck was recovered several days later (spoiled) and one was never found. Barring unusual circumstances, it's wise to wait 45-60 minutes. If he's dead, he'll still be dead. If he's liver hit, he may be dead or unable to get up and run. If you go in 10-20 minutes you may end up regretting it but you won't know until it's too late. Once you do that once you'll change your approach. On a suspected Liver Hit, you should wait 3-4 hours, he'll be dead in the first bed.

From: Rock
30-Jan-19
I always screw up on at least one question as I forget to think like Pat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ambush X3

From: Ambush
30-Jan-19
#4 is a trick question. Look carefully at the blood! But I'm still thinking like Pat.

From: Pat Lefemine
30-Jan-19
Trick question?

I’m living rent free in some of your heads! LOL!!

From: Ambush
30-Jan-19
"I’m living rent free in some of your heads!"

Free still ain't much of a deal in some heads!

From: Ucsdryder
30-Jan-19
I’m personally not shoot right at a blind. Same with a shed, outhouse, or other structure. Maybe he’s positive someone isn’t in there. I’m positive I unload my gun but I don’t point it at someone. Sometimes being sure isn’t good enough...

From: drycreek
30-Jan-19
I thought #4 was the first question that WASN'T a trick question !

Not shooting right at a blind is good advice, but if you're in the bush of Saskatchewan you can probably be pretty sure the blind is empty, especially since it was intended to be your blind for an opposite wind. I'm guessing here, but.........

From: tradmt
30-Jan-19
45 minute wait? I have the shot on video, placement is obvious, that deer wasn’t alive for 15 seconds tops. I’m at least looking at the arrow immediately.

From: DoorKnob
30-Jan-19
Not any more. I am charging you rent AND utilities !!

You can start with the security deposit plus first and last months ....

" From: Pat Lefemine 30-Jan-19

Trick question?

I’m living rent free in some of your heads! LOL!! "

From: ki-ke
30-Jan-19
Guys calling "D" in question 2........REALLY?? Heart shot?

From: tradmt
30-Jan-19
Yeah, “D” is one of those “ Help me find my deer! I made a perfect shot on him but I lost blood after training for half a mile”

From: drycreek
30-Jan-19
Question #2 , option D is not a heart shot as pictured, but certainly could be one "IF" the deer dropped at the shot, and "IF" the camera angle was the same as the shot angle. Some of us still trying to ascertain what goes on in Pat's head. Should know better by now.

From: Ambush
30-Jan-19
Quote Pat: "Trick question?"

OK, I just like to mess with the guys that come search all the posts before committing. And yes, I can be a dink.

From: Glunt@work
31-Jan-19
I chose the 9 point answer for number 4. I won't say I chose the correct answer because going by "Based on these photos..." the "right" answer could easily not be true. I have seen a blood soaked arrow with no smell, immediate blood trail & profuse bleeding 5 yards into the trail resulting from something other than the 9 point answer. If using the photos AND the video from #3 , the answer is fine. :^)

From: Bou'bound
31-Jan-19
to answer right you have the put yourself in the shooters shoes (or in this case boots). Pat does not shoot Rage heads and therefore felt, correctly, the need to wait 45 minutes.

31-Jan-19
From my perspective you should wait longer than you think is needed. Time is not a constant . Five minutes can feel like a hour. Have you ever jumped a wounded deer because you waited too long?

From: tobywon
31-Jan-19
Some of you guys are assuming that the deer dropped within sight. That was never stated nor shown in the video. I assume he didn't see it go down being on the ground.

From: Bake
31-Jan-19
The waiting question is easy, if you know how Pat does it :) I've heard him talk about waiting before. . . .

I know one very accomplished Bowsiter that waits 12 hours on every shot unless he sees it go down. It's hard to argue with his success. . . .

From: StickFlicker
31-Jan-19
In Arizona, most of the time 12 hours would result in spoiled meat.

From: JTV
31-Jan-19
for all those who think that deer was going one direction, it may have been going the other direction, dont second guess yourself, but then again, maybe you should second guess your self ... ;0) ..... just sayin' ..

From: Ron Niziolek
31-Jan-19
Pat's gonna mess with you guys on clue 5.

From: tradmt
31-Jan-19
I saw more drops that looked more one direction than the other, of course I got it wrong. Doesn’t matter though because you can likely see the magpies standing on the stiff carcass after the 45 minute wait.

From: Rut Nut
31-Jan-19
From: stick n string

29-Jan-19

I wont go immediately unless i see or hear him crash. But 45 minutes seemed beyond excessive to me. That one got me, sorry PA....

No problem Justin- you're still doin' OK. But some guy named Phil is really holding us back! (9 pts?????? ;-)

From: Lee
31-Jan-19
12 hours on every shot!!!?? I shot one a couple years ago - drilled him at 5 yards and knew he was done. I was tying my bow to my tow rope on my bow right after the shot. I was standing over the buck within 10 minutes of the shot and about 5 pounds of his rear end was already eaten out! He would have been a skeleton in 12 hours. It’s pretty easy to tell if you made a good shot if you have any experience under your belt.

Lee

From: Ambush
31-Jan-19
#5 just got me! Went with the wrong spots and was out 180

31-Jan-19
I thought i clearly saw which direction the splatter was goin...dint even get partial points....

From: Boreal
31-Jan-19
So far, I would expect a class of 10 year old hunter education students to be at 100%. Maybe I'll actually have to think about question 6.

From: Bloodtrail
31-Jan-19
stick n string. I too could see exactly which way the splatter was going.....big fat 0

But in the grand scheme of these challenges.....it has little to do with reality.

I'm waiting for the garden gnome pic.......

31-Jan-19
This is the first one ive participated in. My confidence is now shaken that I could track my own deer next fall...;^)

From: Glunt@work
31-Jan-19
And....I went from perfect to a goose egg. I couldn't decide between the right answer and the one I chose. Just picked one and figured it was 50%/50%.

Foiled again :^)

From: Ambush
31-Jan-19
Quote Boreal: "So far, I would expect a class of 10 year old hunter education students to be at 100%. Maybe I'll actually have to think about question 6."

The really good hunters get very little experience trailing animals. They set it up to kill them quick!

From: Bake
31-Jan-19
The blood splatter question ALWAYS gets me. I was perfect until then. Although I think I should get partial credit for my answer which was the same general direction :)

From: Boatman71
31-Jan-19
Grrr the direction of travel got me as well. It sure looked to me like the deer was going the opposite direction :-)

From: elkmtngear
31-Jan-19
Missed #5 by 10 degrees :/

From: 12yards
31-Jan-19
I think I was doing same as you Glunt@work, but I chose the right one. Lucky me, could have easily been the other one.

From: Wayniac
31-Jan-19
Got me too.. old eyes don't see on the computer so well.

From: Ambush
31-Jan-19
It’s obvious the buck was doing the “Moon Walk” just before collapsing. So, though facing north he was actually moving south. Those blood spatters are a stereotypical example of such. Next Level tracking 101.

From: DoorKnob
31-Jan-19
Little angle difference between the 9 points and the fooler direction. That much blood in real life wouldn't hardly require any fine analysis and the general direction of movement is the thing. Further there are tails in the loser direction and the over all general occurrence of blood indicates that direction. When is OK for me to say more/reveal more? I want my points !!

From: drycreek
31-Jan-19
That wasn't exactly textbook splatter and tho I got it right, I was just lucky.

On another note, we've just been insulted by someone from Joisey ! ;-)

From: Jack Harris
31-Jan-19
screw your stupid blood splatter Pat! :)

31-Jan-19
Lol

From: Teeton
31-Jan-19
Yeah I blew five also..

From: Duke
31-Jan-19
“When is OK for me to say more/reveal more? I want my points !!” -Just keep to yourself until further instruction...

From: wkochevar
31-Jan-19
I usually dont care about all my wrong answers on these but that deer and blood spatter in 5 definitely reflects a lateral/angled crossing over that stick even if the picture is SLANTED! LOL!

From: 8point
01-Feb-19
I went with C in #5 because there were drops at 7 o'clock as well as 12 & 1

From: 12yards
01-Feb-19
Yeah, on #5, it was one of those deals where you close your eyes and hold your breath when you hit the submit button, then slowly open to see the result.

From: tobywon
01-Feb-19
Haha, I go good then hit the wall. Got the splatter direction right but I agree with wkochevar and 8 point, tough angle especially seeing that pin drop low and to the right and out of focus. Make it looks like the direction was that way. Oh well.

From: PECO
01-Feb-19
Has anyone ever not known which direction the deer was traveling when tracking and had to do a blood splatter analysis? Asking because I'm trying to justify missing the question.

From: Single bevel
01-Feb-19
I think in this case, the LOCATION of the blood was as important as the direction of the splatter. Had the deer been traveling in B or D directions, then blood wouldn't have been on the front of that log.

From: JusPassin
01-Feb-19
Interesting photo for the 4 choice grid for locating the deer. While the correct choice was there did anyone else notice the bright reflective spot in section B that could easily have been interpreted as from an eye?

From: Ambush
01-Feb-19
"I" got #6 !

From: Bake
01-Feb-19
PECO. . . the only one time I've ever had to do a "splatter analysis" was a long track job on a lost elk that a buddy shot. I believe he brisket shot the bull. There were 7 or 8 spots of blood that we found over 500 yards or so. When we found a spot, it was hands and knees to try to determine direction. But even then, not super important, as the terrain also dictated direction as well

From: JTV
01-Feb-19
Shine on you crazy diamond .....

From: Stoneman
01-Feb-19
just when I thought I was out... I got pulled back in! go with your GUT on this one.

From: spike78
01-Feb-19
JusPassin, yup I chose the grid with the “eye”! Damn I’m doing rough on this one.

From: Nick Muche
01-Feb-19
"I think in this case, the LOCATION of the blood was as important as the direction of the splatter. Had the deer been traveling in B or D directions, then blood wouldn't have been on the front of that log. "

.

Unless Pat took the photo from another angle, and since he likes to make us all mad with these challenges, I wouldn't have put it past him!

From: Heritage
01-Feb-19
Oh poop!!! I hate it when I'm stupid.

From: APauls
01-Feb-19
Ya.. while the spatter on the log looked like A at best, all the spatter in the leaves was definitely "C" for directional. Either direction could have had blood on the log I was thinking. That's the only one that got me so far and I'd take that one all the way to the supreme court lol. Thanks goodness directional blood spatter is something you essentially never need for trailing.

It's really too bad Pat got that one wrong but I'll give him points for trying ;)

From: T Mac
01-Feb-19
Eye suck at this btc

From: Ron Niziolek
01-Feb-19
Perfect score to suck on #6.

From: Bloodtrail
01-Feb-19
Textbook.....ha! This is the textbook they handed you that had pages missing, highlighter all over it, pictures scribbled on and was left out in the rain, warped to hell.

Like is said before. Has nothing to do with reality. It’s Pat’s world....it’s Pat’s world.....it’s Pat’s world......

From: BOHUNTER09
01-Feb-19
Thought I saw an eye in b. Stopped looking. My bad

From: Heritage
01-Feb-19
Had I waited longer before tracking, I think I would have been more aware and less likely to confuse that reflective tack for an eyeball. :)

From: drycreek
01-Feb-19
Tmac, EYE suck worse.........

From: greg simon
02-Feb-19
Pat is up early today. Clue 7 is up. It is a tricky one!!!

From: Dave
02-Feb-19
And the necropsy proves my point on Question 2. D is clearly a better shot as it hits the heart.

From: Katahdin
02-Feb-19
On clue 7 I think the entrance and exit pictures are reversed. I got the answer right however.

From: Olink
02-Feb-19
Eye got fooled by the eye too and stopped looking as soon as I saw that. Sorry for the bad pun.

From: Olink
02-Feb-19
Also, are you sure that the liver wasn't hit on the entrance? It sure seems like that entrance was behind the diaphragm.

From: Glunt@work
02-Feb-19
If it missed the close lung it was behind the diaphragm on entrance but the liver doesn't cover the whole back of the diaphragm.

From: Ambush
02-Feb-19
Well, you won't need the onions ;-)

From: x-man
02-Feb-19
I was surprised that it only hit one lung... ;)

From: dean j
02-Feb-19
Yeah I saw the glowing eye in B also, dang dark antlers!

From: dm/wolfskin
02-Feb-19
We need to put a bloodtrail from us to Pat and see how well he can decipher our clues and picture, You know text book. he he he

From: JTV
02-Feb-19
Next will be "how far did the buck go" ... text book ......... want a hint.... less than 400 yds ..... ;0)

From: dg72a
03-Feb-19
Those "antlers" in the lower right don't match the buck, that's why I thought they were sticks or something. They are too long and spindley. Come on Pat, you never fooled me.

From: Dr. Deer
03-Feb-19
I over-thunk the question about minimal wait time. "minimum reasonable" to me means go now. That would be the minimum and it would be reasonable. Especially if there were other factors like coyotes, impending darkness or rain. Even just checking out the first ten yards of the trail before re-evaluating is what I'd do, once the shaking stopped. I'd rather stalk over to the arrow, look at and smell it, find the first gouged track and if I have nothing after ten yards covered in ten minutes, stand motionless for another 30. You would see and hear more than sitting in a blind.

From: T Mac
03-Feb-19
It shows how resilient these animals are to go 110 yards after a heart shot!

From: JusPassin
03-Feb-19
35 yards with a one lung hit??? Did it hit a fence????

From: Ambush
03-Feb-19
Goose eggs on #6 and #8 for me. #8 is just a WAG based on how the buck blasted out of there, on the video, after the shot.

From: Bou'bound
03-Feb-19
The last question is nothing more than a guess. Any of those are possible with the facts of the shot previously confirmed. No knowledge or experience necessary or help on that one given the options

03-Feb-19
Perfect until the big goose egg on number 8

From: Ambush
03-Feb-19
Should be a question #9.

Why did Pat shoot a meat buck in the land of Giants!?!

From: DoorKnob
03-Feb-19
Q9, is it really a doe with antlers?

From: JTV
03-Feb-19
the last question is a pure guess, a deer hit like that could go only 20 yds or 100+yds .... I was perfect till the last one (oh well) .... Ive seen deer hit worse only go 20 yds, Ive seen deer hit perfectly go over 100 yds .... there is no given distance on what a deer will do ...... Thanks Pat .....

From: tundrajumper
03-Feb-19
dg, i thought the same thing

From: Geno
03-Feb-19
I was perfect till the last one! It was fun though.

From: Lee
03-Feb-19
Man I was on a roll til the last one - total crapshoot!

Lee

From: Ambush
03-Feb-19
I've been watching the "Percentage that answered clue # _ correctly". It's a little sad but obvious that a some folks wait a few days and glean clues from the posts here to gain an advantage. The average goes up after about the third day for each clue.

From: TKrets
03-Feb-19
My best score to date. Only one I missed was #6. Thought those looked like tines but I swore that was eye shine in section B; and a trick..... Going with the gut and first thoughts from now on.

From: Deebz
04-Feb-19
I totally saw the tines first in #6, but then went with the "eye" spot thinking that was more of a textbook clue to look for... I also would have sworn there was liver involved in the shot...and like mentioned above, #8 was a total guess...I've had double lunged deer run 100 yds or more before piling up, so who knows what the distance is going to be...

These are fun!

From: elkmtngear
04-Feb-19
"I've had double lunged deer run 100 yds or more before piling up, so who knows what the distance is going to be"...

Yeah, I went with an "average", of double lunged deer I'd shot...came out with a different number than Pat's deer, and finished up with a nice fat goose egg!

From: APauls
04-Feb-19
Dang. Almost every double lunger I shoot goes like 75 yards, thought I had a shoe-in.

From: Russell
04-Feb-19
Shot a doe yesterday, double lung (center and low), deer ran 24 yards, stopped, wobbled, and wiped out.

04-Feb-19
45 minutes on a buck that went 35 yards:) C'mon Pat...lol! Fun as always.

From: Rut Nut
04-Feb-19
I messed up on #7, then totally over-thunk #8! Should have trusted my gut! : (

From: 12yards
04-Feb-19
I always figure a deer is gonna take more than a couple bounds before stopping and dying even though I've had it happen a few times, so I picked the wrong answer. My shortest track jobs has been when I've taken out the plumbing above the heart.

04-Feb-19
Dead on Matt...LOL

From: switchback
04-Feb-19
Spot on Matt, great shot, dead deer walking, take your time so you don't hurt yourself getting out of the stand but go now. lol

From: RED ONE
04-Feb-19
If he only went 35Yds you would hear him crash, so no need to wait.

From: Buffalo1
04-Feb-19
Worst I've ever scored in a Bloodtrail Challenge. Shame on me

From: 12yards
05-Feb-19
Note to self. Go track right away is never the right answer.

05-Feb-19
I almost always miss one or two. This time I missed two that I went with what I thought Pat would say instead of going with me gut. I usually miss these because I play it the opposite way.

From: Pat Lefemine
05-Feb-19
When these games say ‘textbook’ the correct answer is generally in line with conventional guidance by hunting education instructors. It does not necessarily mean that’s what I did, or what experienced Bowhunters might do.

Generally I like to stick with textbook editions since it’s confusing to newbies when we deviate from their instructions.

From: 12yards
05-Feb-19
Say Pat, on question 7 is the bigger dark spot the entrance hole? I honestly can't really tell if that is the hole or not. But I will say that if it is, the entrance was a bit further back than I thought from the video of the hit.

From: Pat Lefemine
05-Feb-19
Yes. But if you look at video you will see that the body position is compressing the chest. The dead pic is stretched out.

From: switchback
05-Feb-19
Pat, I really enjoy these blood trail challenges. Now that I know it's to educate newbies I get it. But waiting for 35-45 minutes to go get that deer which you either saw drop or heard crash is just plain nuts. Again, thanks for all you do here.

From: Pat Lefemine
05-Feb-19
Never saw it drop. Thought I heard it crash. Blind had no visibility. But trust me, I didn’t sit there for 45 minutes!

From: Deebz
05-Feb-19
My wife killed her first deer from the ground at about 5 yards with her crossbow...We were just sitting together under a tree...I totally made her sit and wait for 30 minutes even though I saw the thing drop...Figured she should get the whole experience.

From: tradmt
05-Feb-19
I like to wait until dark in case a bigger buck shows up.

06-Feb-19
I know text book is to wait and I almost picked the correct answer. If it would have been 30 I would have but you threw me off with 45 min:)

From: 12yards
06-Feb-19
Yeah, I've shot a lot of deer and I don't really remember hearing very many of them drop. Usually I see or hear them running then it is just quiet.

From: Smitty59
06-Feb-19

From: Smitty59
06-Feb-19
Well haven’t done one of these for a few years forgot how tricky they are, to say the lease I didn’t do well. I have several complaints but these have been addressed. But the big one for me is single lung shot on big bucks don’t do well here in Ohio. They can go for miles. So with that said the shot had to cut an artery or the deer would have gone way farther then 35 yards Also how are are we to know how far it went! That is totally a guess. Thanks for doing the Blood Trail contest they are fun but very frustrating.

From: Pat Lefemine
06-Feb-19
It wasn’t a single lung hit. Not sure where you got that from.

From: drycreek
06-Feb-19
^^^^^^ Probably the same place I got some of my answers Pat, and it wasn't his hat......

From: Smitty59
06-Feb-19
Well I thought it said miss near side lung by 4 “ My bad can’t get back to the answers. The front leg was back so it throws off the perspective. Keep them coming they are great and educational for everyone. But very frustrating!

From: GF
06-Feb-19
Kinda funny that people are questioning which shot shows the exit wound....

Ummm.... we all saw the arrow hit the deer on its LEFT side, no???

Not even PAT is sneaky enough to photo-flop the picture! (Is he???)

Guess I oughtta get my ears checked, though.... I never heard that dude crash.

From: Heat
06-Feb-19
I was doing just fine until the end. Didn't see many clues that would lead to a correct answer for the last one.

From: Smitty59
06-Feb-19
Yepper it did no questions there.

From: Smitty59
06-Feb-19
Yepper it did no questions there.

From: Smitty59
06-Feb-19
35 yards away yep should heard that! Unless the they started celebrating!! You know TV stuff !!

From: Glunt@work
07-Feb-19
I must have read the explanation on the hit wrong as well. I thought was a one lunger.

From: 12yards
07-Feb-19
I don't think there was an explanation. It was clear in the video of the hit it was two lungs. The arrow passed through and was stuck in the ground in front of the ground blind behind the deer.

From: Ambush
07-Feb-19
After you answered the question, your score and the answer popped up. It clearly stated that it was a double lung.

From: bigbuckbob
08-Feb-19
The question about what organs were hit - the entry wound is so border line in front of, or back of the diaphragm that it was a guess between liver/one lung and double lung. How far the deer traveled has not definite answer in my opinion. I've had double lung deer drop in their tracks and others run 150 yards. Guessing is all you can do.

From: 10ring
09-Feb-19
If the deer only traveled 35 yards you should have been able to have seen from the blind. Or atleast standing outside the blind. Thus waiting no time. Since the correct answer was wait 45 minutes.....I would assume you couldn’t see the deer. Additionally I counted 4-5 seconds of leave noise after the shot. Meaning atleast 40-50 yards. The last answer is a complete guess. Unless someone else can explain it.

From: woodsdog
19-Feb-19
I scored 72, the only one that threw me a bit was question 8 but then I remembered a very nice buck I shot several years ago that only went about 20 yards after I double lunged him.

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