Moultrie Products
WY Bison
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
mick 07-Feb-19
wildwilderness 07-Feb-19
IdyllwildArcher 07-Feb-19
sticksender 07-Feb-19
mick 07-Feb-19
akbow 07-Feb-19
mick 07-Feb-19
Trial153 07-Feb-19
mick 07-Feb-19
Trial153 07-Feb-19
StickFlicker 07-Feb-19
Tdvorak 07-Feb-19
akbow 07-Feb-19
wildwilderness 07-Feb-19
yeager 07-Feb-19
Ron Niziolek 07-Feb-19
PushCoArcher 07-Feb-19
wildwilderness 07-Feb-19
Trial153 07-Feb-19
StickFlicker 07-Feb-19
PushCoArcher 07-Feb-19
llamapacker 07-Feb-19
mick 07-Feb-19
'Ike' (Phone) 07-Feb-19
TreeWalker 08-Feb-19
BULELK1 08-Feb-19
mick 08-Feb-19
From: mick
07-Feb-19
Wondering who is still in and who`s dropping out. Now that WY is charging the 2.5% credit card service fee. So they are still charging nonres. the full tag fee over $4400 so that service fee charge would be over $110 plus you appl. fee you would lose with no preference or bonus system in play. That`s crazy in my mind. I`m out after 18 unsuccesful years. I would accept it if it were one of the only tags I`m seeking. But I`ve been applying for years for many species in just about every western state. I`m just to the point of how much money am I willing to lose just to be in the play the app. game. I`ve been forfeiting over a grand the last few years and I am just going to drop out on a few as they keep gouging on`s pocket book. A total shame that few can truly afford to play the app. game. Even if they have the desire to pursue some of the nations greatest animals. The out of pocket loss can be insane , every year after year and that tag(s) may never come. As I sit at 10 to 19 yrs/points across the west I got some tough decisions to make in the very near future. Just tough to drop on some when you faithfully applied for years, and you think wow I`m at 15 pts. gotta draw soon, but reality that day may never come. Colorado pt fee increase on the sheep,moose,goat is another big hit. So today some young kid might dream of say hunting sheep and never have the financial means to get in all the sheep state draws needed to have chance to pull a tag. Sorry about the long rant.

07-Feb-19
I was unaware of that new fee. Is there an option to mail a check to avoid the $110 fee? If so how does the refund work?

On a side note for Bison, I have asked P&Y which herds qualify, and I don't ever get a "list" back- just that its considered by submission, but the state has to issue a tag and recognize it as big game. Can someone from P&Y tell me which hunts have qualified in the past?

07-Feb-19
“I`m out after 18 unsuccesful years.”

Hasn’t WY Bison season only been open for like 4 years?

“But I`ve been applying for years for many species in just about every western state. I`m just to the point of how much money am I willing to lose just to be in the play the app. game. I`ve been forfeiting over a grand the last few years ...”

I feel your pain. I have several states where I don’t put in for several different species and last count I was over $1500 in non-refundables per year. It costs a fair bit more to put in for everything, everywhere. Applying as a NR for sheep, goat, and moose in WA state will run you about $360. Tack on the CO changes and just those would put me somewhere around $2200 a year in nonrefundables per year.

From: sticksender
07-Feb-19
Quote: "A total shame that few can truly afford to play the app. game"

If only that "few" part were true! Looking at the size of the NR applicant pools in every western state, cost does not seem to be much of a deterrent. Lots of gamblers out there ;-)

From: mick
07-Feb-19
To my knowledge no paper appl. only online. Otherwise I`d gladly mail a check to avoid the 2.5 % fee. Something tells me most people will apply and never know they are not being refunded the 2.5% (over $110) till it`s to late. Just want everyone to know that even though 2.5% doesn`t sound like much. To the average nonres. it is a large amount for a random draw chance. I feel if WY wants that fee they should be fair to nonres. and give the option to mail in a check to avoid the credit card fee or not charge the whole tag fee unless you draw. Truly only for the rich.

From: akbow
07-Feb-19
I am also feeling the pain. I grew up in WA and although I would love to get a sheep/moose tag there, I realized that my odds of drawing are so slim coupled with their fees that I just would have to give that one up. Did that a couple years ago. Now, as I near an early retirement in a few years, I am looking at dumping points whereever and whenever I can. Oregon and Colorado are next on the chopping block--I'll never get to their premium hunts, but I should be able to get a decent tag as my schedule allows and not get back in. If I don't draw Utah, Nevada, and Montana before I retire (which is likely not going to happen), I'll probably dump all those points when I retire as it won't be in the budget--especially for just a dream that I MAY draw out before I die. The only states that I'll likely stay in is AZ because I plan on being down there every January for the OTC deer tags and of course Alaska. If money allows, I may put in for ID or NM--unless they change to some kind of point system or the application fees get too high. It's a bummer to think about throwing 2 decades worth of points away, but I'd rather retire early and not have to worry about that in my retirement budget.

From: mick
07-Feb-19
Wy bison tags have been around for years. About 4 years ago they stopped the on call system and went to just a random draw. Before you were given a # and say there was 50 tags given out. They would try getting a hold of guy with #1 if they couldn`t reach him they`d go to #2 till they reached the limit of tags available. They had to get a hold of you by phone they would try 3 times a day for 3 days. For all those years I only once was randomlly given a # under 100, with most years my # being 2-4 hundred. So little chance of me being called with most yrs less then 50 total tags available.

From: Trial153
07-Feb-19
I called about using a debit card or bank transfer in leu of the fee........no go.

From: mick
07-Feb-19
akbow, Did you also see for NM this year they are charging and keeping the $65 hunting lic. fee, where in the past you could request a refund. And still no pref./bonus system in play. Thats also a bit unfair in my mind.

From: Trial153
07-Feb-19
Idaho been keeping it for years without any point system in place, 200 non refundable for a draw that you might be drawing dead because of the NR CAP.

From: StickFlicker
07-Feb-19
Wildwilderness,

As of the most recent printing of the Pope and Young Measurer's Manual, the following areas are considered fair chase and eligible for entry:

Alaska (3 areas), the Henry Mountains of southeastern Utah, The Pink Mountains in British Columbia, the House Rock Wildlife Area in northern Arizona, and the Jackson herd in western Wyoming (Lincoln Co., Sublette Co. and a southern portion of Teton Co.).

From: Tdvorak
07-Feb-19
There are some great options for bison hunting in private herds. I know it isn’t the same but some of us don’t have a problem fishing in a lake versus a river or a small lake versus a big lake. Perhaps a bit of hypocrisy is needed to get a bison on your wall but if you go with the right place it will still be awesome. Some of those places have you shooting them out of a pen but others are just about like they were doing it back in The 1860’s. If you don’t want to chase the needle in the haystack to get a tag for buffalo the private guide service thing is a great option. Then you can get on to the next critter on your bucket list. Hunting a private ranch is still better than the BEST day of watching TV.

From: akbow
07-Feb-19
Hey Mick-- I haven't been following NM and ID much. If I had an opening I would try to burn through the CO and OR points I have first. I had just mentioned those as possibilities due to the lack of point system. But, I can imagine that ID and NM will likely change and follow suit with other states in trying to maximize their revenue. I'll likely reevaluate when the time comes to retire. Luckily, I plan on always having Alaska in my back pocket--not a terrible consolation prize.

07-Feb-19
-Thanks StickFlicker,

I know Utah has added a few bison hunts in the Book Cliffs, how does one find out if P&Y will take entries from those hunts?

From: yeager
07-Feb-19
Pope & Young also added Park County in Montana ,(Big Game Records page 16, Ethic Summer 2018), to the list.

From: Ron Niziolek
07-Feb-19
It's my understanding that if you take what you consider a free range bison from a state or province that offers tags, you may petition P&Y to have it entered. Once they have studied all the data like how many tags, hunter days to fill tags, etc..., they will then make a determination if it and any others from the same place will be eligible for P&Y. That's a quick and dirty explanation. Maybe Ed F. can chime in as well.

From: PushCoArcher
07-Feb-19
Would using a credit card with a 2.5 % or higher cash back work? Or would you just get cash back from the $110 credit card fee. Couldn't you pay off the $4000 plus immediately getting your cash back and depending on the % it would cover or more the credit card fee? Has anyone done this?

07-Feb-19
You would not get the cash back on the $4000. If your CC cycled and you did pay it off one month, the next time you would get the credit back and not any cash back on that amount.

From: Trial153
07-Feb-19
Yea they adjust rewards/cash back after a credit. It's in almost all agreements.

From: StickFlicker
07-Feb-19
You would get cash back on the entire amount that G&F charged you, but they would take it back when they refunded the money back to your card. You might end up with the cash back on the fee only, since that wouldn't be refunded. It wouldn't matter whether you paid it off quickly or not.

From: PushCoArcher
07-Feb-19
I figured there was a reason I hadn't heard of anyone doing it. Thanks for the info.

From: llamapacker
07-Feb-19
There is no way to get around this new, non-refundable fee in Wyoming. It is very different than a price increase, because this specifically gets the unsuccessful applicant to contribute significant dollars, whereas those who draw the tag pay the very large tag fee and then are done. You cannot pay by cash or check.

Wyoming has had pretty high point fees for several years ($100 sheep, $75 Moose, etc.) but no point fee for bison as you can't get points. Bison is a totally random draw. Even the preference point fees have increased.

Starting this year, with the high cost of these tags and the 2.5% fee, the nonrefundable cost to apply for all WY tags will be prohibitive for many nonresidents. Adding the preference point fee where applicable and the $10 basic app fee per species, and the costs really climb.

Bison tag - $4402, 2.5% = $110.05 new non-refundable, no points

Sheep tag - $2320, 2.5% = $58 new non-refundable, + $150 preference point fee

Mtn goat tag - $2162, 2.5% = $54.05 new non-refundable, no points

Moose tag - $1982, 2.5% = $49.55 new non-refundable, +$150 preference point fee

Elk tag (special) - $1268, 2.5% = $31.70 new non refundable, + $52 preference point fee

Deer tag (special) - $662, 2.5 % = $16.55 new non refundable. + $41 pref. point fee

Antelope tag (special) $614, 2.5% = $15.35 new non refundable, + $31 pref. point fee

If you were to apply for all species as a non-resident, the preference point fees would equal $424.

The new non refundable 2.5% fee would total $335.25. The basic app fee of $10 per species would equal $70.

For a grand total of $829.25. AND, you would have to front the state of Wyoming $13,408 dollars paid in full on your credit card. Your refund when you don't draw anything, will be $12,578.75. ($13,408 - $829.25) And yes, it won't happen in one single transaction, but this is the net cost.

Heaven forbid you would like to put in for your wife and maybe a kid or two as well. These are just the facts of the new price each applicant will pay, even without drawing a tag. Bill

From: mick
07-Feb-19
I truly hope the the nonres. masses leave WY. And then they see and feel the affect it could cause their fish and parks dept. By the total unfair and outlandish pricing.

07-Feb-19
^^^^^

Never happen!

From: TreeWalker
08-Feb-19
NM is raising the NR hunting license as well as elk, etc, in 2020. Time to "invest" more into the tag chase.

From: BULELK1
08-Feb-19
Yup the Wyo Bull Buff has been offered for Boo-Coo years, definitely 'cheaper' to draw it in the past.

A very large amount of those that apply use one or another Hunting Application Service so the Up Front $$$$ isn't as dramatic for them, in multiple states.

Myself, I front the money in states that need it to be fronted, that way I am always with in budget for the hunt tags drawn.

Good luck, Robb

From: mick
08-Feb-19
Me personally I have/and would rather send in full tag fees or what ever and just forfeit say 10 to 30 dollar app. fee each. Just sucks when they have you buy hunting lic.(that usually never gets used),pref. pt fees, stamps, etc. just to play. I know they won`t lose the masses. Most people only apply in a state or two, don`t really affect them as bad. But how many ave. incomed people can afford to apply in 8-10 states with multiple apps. in each state as I do? I as of ave. means am going to start dropping out of a few based on price. I also think each of these states have and will see numbers of people applying slowly decline. And say the fish and game needs x amount of $ to run they simply charge the remaining people applying more to get the same x amount. In a perfect world it would be nice for a hunter with lower means, who dreams of hunting say the sheep/moose/goat/bison to be able to apply in the needed many states to have a chance. With only losing say the $10-30 app. fee each. Many people can afford to lose that much , few can afford all fees these states are charging. You tell me who`s going sheep hunting, the guy who can only afford to lose couple hundred a year so he only applies in one state each yr. or the well off person who can afford to lose 1000`s and apply in all the sheep states. I like many used to go " well keep raising the fees it just makes my odds of drawing better as the some drop out cause of cost". I think these states feel they have so many(myself included) azz- hole deep in the draw system with how ever many points their sitting on that don`t want to lose their yrs. of trying, so lets gouge them a little more, they can take it. Least the suns shining here today...

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