New arrow selection ?
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Pope125 12-Mar-19
12yards 12-Mar-19
jjs 12-Mar-19
JTV 12-Mar-19
PECO 12-Mar-19
12yards 12-Mar-19
sdkhunter 12-Mar-19
Matt 12-Mar-19
12yards 13-Mar-19
JTV 13-Mar-19
From: Pope125
12-Mar-19
Well I am wanting to switch arrows , been shooting CX / SD 350's for a few years and want to try something new and drop a little arrow weight . With my arrows I am shooting now I'm around 455 gr . Im shooting and RX3 , at 60lbs , arrow length is 29 1/4 , with a 100 head . Im wanting to be around 405 -410 grains with the new set-up . Any suggestions on arrows?

From: 12yards
12-Mar-19
A standard Gold Tip Pro Hunter or XT Hunter in 340 spine will put you at just over 400. 8.9 gpi, Insert 12.1 gr, Nock 12.2 gr, 3 Blazers 18 gr 100 grain head

From: jjs
12-Mar-19
Just a question, why do you want to drop weight on your hunting arrow? Lighter the weight the less of penetration, unless you want more speed. Some of the past tracks I helped to be on were from lite hunting arrow set ups from marginal penetration, 1/4-1/3 of shaft that penetrated.

From: JTV
12-Mar-19
Goldtip Hunter XT 340 @ 28" with 3 Blazers and a 100 gr tip will be around 405 grs .... been shooting these for 20 yrs or so ... they started out as the venerable 75/95's back then, now called 340's ... BTW, I'm at 64lbs 30" draw .... you will be a tad stiff spine wise, but no serious problems, no problems with penetration esp. using a good COC head .... I still use my Modified Vipertricks and Rocket Steelhead XL's.... full pass thrus on both deer last season which is the norm for me using that arrow setup .... I was shooting 62 lbs and the Velocity XT 340's at 380 grs, but since I still have 18 of the 75/95's left, I decided to go back to 'em .... I dont want to buy new arrows ...

From: PECO
12-Mar-19
You are at 7.63 gr per # of draw weight. IMO you are not too heavy, your arrows are fine. No need to go lighter, especially if you are using Mechanical broadheads.

From: 12yards
12-Mar-19
If you want a 400 spine arrow (I would rather have 340 and be a little stiff), the 400 Beman ICS Hunter is 8.4 gpi, 3 Blazer vanes 18 gr, Insert 21 gr, nock 13 gr, 100 grain head = 398 gr. Add a 5" wrap and you'd be just over 400.

From: sdkhunter
12-Mar-19

sdkhunter's embedded Photo
Difference in penetration of a VAP 400 vs FMJ Dangerous Game Arrow
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Difference in penetration of a VAP 400 vs FMJ Dangerous Game Arrow
sdkhunter's embedded Photo
VAP 400 Weight
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VAP 400 Weight
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Easton Dangerous Game 250
sdkhunter's embedded Photo
Easton Dangerous Game 250
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Top View of one of the test shot groups.... Notice how much extra penetration the Micro Diameter arrows get vs. the standard diameter.
sdkhunter's embedded Photo
Top View of one of the test shot groups.... Notice how much extra penetration the Micro Diameter arrows get vs. the standard diameter.
I’d look at a Victory VAP or Gold Tip Pierce – both great arrows! Wouldn’t hesitate to hunt with either (I own some of both) though my quiver for elk the last 4-5 years has had VAP’s in it… For me, archery is about hitting the target where I’m aiming with often little to no opportunities to judge distance, so probably for the same reason you’re looking for a faster arrow, I want the best combination of flat trajectory & penetration.

A month or so ago a good friend and myself set out to prove to ourselves what we had been seeing with the newer arrows of the last half a decade or so. That with today’s arrows, overall arrow weight really has minimal impact on the penetration. Luckily, we have access to a bunch of cool stuff/equipment so we just decided to have at it and do some testing. I was the only one that shot the bow (Vertix with 60lb mods, believe at 28” draw though I would have to 100% double check the notes), shooting into a brand new Morrell High Roller Foam target (which is rated for 450 FPS so it’s going to stop the arrow at a MUCH faster rate than 90% of real life hunting hits) at exactly the same distance (18 yards). Because it stops the arrows so well, I think it’s safe to assume that you could at least double any pentation variation\increase you could expect in real life… We spent countless hours on it really and I could probably publish a 10 page article on what our results were but I’ll just hit a few of the takeaways.

Much of what we found in our mind shows that arrow design and composition have a greater factor on penetration than arrow weight. Probably hasn’t always been this way but arrow design has changed a lot in 30 years. For example, a VAP 400 that weighed 388.8 grains out penetrated an Easton 250 Dangerous Game arrow that weighed 727.8 by a LOT! The speed difference was also significant, the VAP shot 285 fps and the FMJ DG 213 fps. We tested everything from VAP’s, Pierces, FMJ injections, FMJ Dangerous Games, CE Reds, CE Blues, Regular shaft arrows like standard Victory’s, Beeman’s, etc. We did hours’ worth of testing. If that wasn’t enough, when we tested everything we wanted, we wondered how penetration was impacted when hitting a very hard surface. I created what I affectionally called ‘hog skin’ which was essentially a thick carboard box that I cut four large rectangular pieces out of and then taped them together with packing tape and affixed to the target. Even then, the lighter/faster micro-diameter arrows with necked outserts out-penetrated the heavier arrows – though at a slower rate (so the heavier arrow did close the gap some).

I’m not trying to change the world or start an all-out riot but I do think it’s worth it for people that want to shoot a flatter/more distance judging forgiving setup to at least consider doing your own testing and trying out a lighter/flatter shooting micro arrow and see how they fly for you.

From: Matt
12-Mar-19
I would be VERY cautious when trying to extrapolate penetration data in foam to performance on game, especially when comparing shafts/components of different profiles as was done above. Penetration tests done on animals (e.g. Ashby) have found a strong positive correlation between arrow weight and penetration. The above was just as likely measuring the difference in shaft OD as it was actual penetration potential.

To the OP, you will see very little trajectory benefit when decreasing arrow weight by 40-50 grs., so I personally wouldn't recommend the decrease.

From: 12yards
13-Mar-19
Agree with Matt. Penetration tests in foam, I don't give them any credence.

From: JTV
13-Mar-19
Dont get caught up on the weight thing for deer... 60lb bow, arrows 380gr+, good COC head or even a reputable Mech. your good no larger than a 1.5" cut ... 20+ years shooting 380-410 gr arrows for deer and NEVER has penetration been a problem .... NEVER .. even back when I was shooting 'slow' arrow at 250-260 fps... Ive been over 300 fps now for quite a few years, and I dont even ponder on penetration ... I just kill deer, and some big ones at that ...

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