Summit Treestands
Wild Horses
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Tilzbow 26-Mar-19
Spookinelk 26-Mar-19
Ucsdryder 26-Mar-19
Treeline 26-Mar-19
IdyllwildArcher 26-Mar-19
IdyllwildArcher 26-Mar-19
W8N4RUT 26-Mar-19
Glunt@work 26-Mar-19
jingalls 26-Mar-19
Tjw 26-Mar-19
Dutch oven 26-Mar-19
'Ike' 26-Mar-19
Spookinelk 26-Mar-19
Da White Shoe 27-Mar-19
Tjw 27-Mar-19
Tjw 27-Mar-19
Tjw 27-Mar-19
Dino 27-Mar-19
billygoat 27-Mar-19
Tjw 27-Mar-19
Tjw 27-Mar-19
DL 27-Mar-19
Bigdan 27-Mar-19
scentman 27-Mar-19
Tyler 27-Mar-19
elkstabber 27-Mar-19
Scar Finga 27-Mar-19
Spookinelk 27-Mar-19
Woods Walker 27-Mar-19
elvspec 27-Mar-19
Deertick 27-Mar-19
eBike John 27-Mar-19
Woods Walker 27-Mar-19
TrapperKayak 27-Mar-19
midwest 27-Mar-19
cnelk 27-Mar-19
TrapperKayak 27-Mar-19
elvspec 27-Mar-19
JusPassin 27-Mar-19
Treeline 27-Mar-19
Treeline 27-Mar-19
Bigdan 27-Mar-19
Tjw 27-Mar-19
IdyllwildArcher 27-Mar-19
Paul@thefort 27-Mar-19
Treeline 27-Mar-19
IdyllwildArcher 27-Mar-19
Tilzbow 27-Mar-19
TrapperKayak 27-Mar-19
Owl 27-Mar-19
HUNT MAN 27-Mar-19
smarba 27-Mar-19
Woods Walker 27-Mar-19
Tilzbow 27-Mar-19
APauls 27-Mar-19
Two Feathers 27-Mar-19
Ucsdryder 27-Mar-19
Thornton 27-Mar-19
Glunt@work 27-Mar-19
Dino 27-Mar-19
Spookinelk 27-Mar-19
del_binari 27-Mar-19
BOHNTR 28-Mar-19
cubdrvr 29-Mar-19
APauls 29-Mar-19
Treeline 30-Mar-19
chillkill 30-Mar-19
Shaft2Long 30-Mar-19
Elkpacker1 31-Mar-19
svrelk 31-Mar-19
TrapperKayak 01-Apr-19
Bowsiteguy 01-Apr-19
WYelkhunter 01-Apr-19
From: Tilzbow
26-Mar-19

Tilzbow's Link
Every member of congress and every liberal wild horse lover should be required to watch the attached video. Please take the time to view and send to as many people as you know. The key to stopping this ecological catastrophe is to educate as many voters as possible so the BLM and Forest Service are allowed to manage wild horse and burro populations in accordance to the laws already in place without interference from the wild horse “protectionist” groups. Its especially important to educate the population in the midwest and east, many of which have no idea of the destruction being caused but only have the vision of “majestic” wild horses in their mind’s eye.

From: Spookinelk
26-Mar-19
Great video!

At some point common sense has to prevail, horses are just like any other animal and need to be managed just like all the other animals.

Not sure all the wild horse advocates are liberals,locally a lot of cowboy types that are gun toting conservatives ( and horse lovers)are advocating for a local feral herd.

From: Ucsdryder
26-Mar-19
Really cool video! According to the PETA wackos Mother Nature will balance itself without human involvement. You know what. They’re right! At some point they’ll destroy all the resources and thousands of animals will die due to starvation. They will die a slow, ugly, and painful death. Sad...

Is there an opportunity to hunt them? Would sportsman’s pay to chase a horse? I’m not sure...

From: Treeline
26-Mar-19
I would certainly sign up!

Feral horses are destroying huge swaths of country in the west. Possibly a bigger problem than the wolves.

And they are not native!

26-Mar-19
When my daughter was doing the field testing part of her hunter ed 3 years ago just east of Los Angeles, I had an interesting conversation with a 1st generation Chinese hunter who was there with several of his relatives who were taking the test. He had been hunting for several years.

He said, that if they would only open up burro and horse hunting legally, that the huge Asian population of L.A. would swarm the deserts and would kill every horse/burro that was legal to do so. In China and in many other areas of Asia, horse and donkey are on the menu, especially donkey. He said that they're delicious and Chinese Americans regret the fact that there is no legitimate donkey meat industry in the U.S.

I'd hunt them. They're everywhere. I'd eat them too. My dad said that when he was a kid, they were poor and ate a lot of horse meat because that's what they could afford and he says it's tougher than beef, but the taste is barely any different.

They are displacing desert mule deer. It's not right. They're not native. And the PETA folks don't want cattle in the deserts because they step on desert tortoises? Gimme a break - you think horses and burros don't?

I'd arrow the heck out of wild horses. Gimme some foal on the bar-B, yum. Colt tacos anyone?

26-Mar-19

IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo

From: W8N4RUT
26-Mar-19
Great podcast from Steve Rinella covering this last July

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/meateater-podcast/id960902903?mt=2&i=1000416438391

Meat eater Episode 126

From: Glunt@work
26-Mar-19
First problem is the term "wild" when it should be "feral". A token herd here and there I can be ok with. Its out of hand. The ranch I worked on as a teen used horses they caught before the ban. They always talked about doing one more round up even though it was illegal. Never came to pass. They had several "traps" built out in the sage. Basically big funnels of fence hidden in taller sage with a little curve that ended in a "corral". Some were 100+ years old.

From: jingalls
26-Mar-19
Invasive species...nothing more! But I’d bet they would be a tasty invasive species!

From: Tjw
26-Mar-19
Wow. Not rocket science. Just use birth control. Crazy the amount of money wasted..easy easy way to control the population. Man I hate government..

From: Dutch oven
26-Mar-19
The feral horse population that is unfortunately allowed to exist in the forests of S.E. Missouri is protected by our Federal laws. And, it is hardly the "liberals" who support their continued protection; most people in that part of the state are hard core conservatives. Go figure.

From: 'Ike'
26-Mar-19
I know there are quite a few in my WY unit...Will be interesting!

From: Spookinelk
26-Mar-19
Birth control has proven to be super expensive and ineffective on large feral horse herds. Animal rights groups are using research on immuno-contraceptives being tested on feral horses to advocate for their use on other large herbivores ....not something that hunters should be advocating for .

27-Mar-19
Horse is a fine meal. Buddy of mine has butchered 3 in the last few years. He gets them for free, from people who need to get rid of them. It's much more like moose than beef, IMO.

From: Tjw
27-Mar-19
Your kidding me. Every horse guy I know would want to go help round them up. People love these things Birth control is cheap. IUD put into the mares is not that hard. Hell a couple round pens a chute and helicopter u could do a herd in a day..

From: Tjw
27-Mar-19
Even better do a bowhunting contest with birth control darts.(yes the blm uses dart guns. Each dose is 26 dollars.) Bow hunters would pay to get to go dart a wild mustang. It would be a tax write off..they would have to do some identification system for each mare. Picture ? That's what they use now.. hell look at a cell phone technology.. and we can't make this easier?? The government spends millions and private sector could make money at it..

From: Tjw
27-Mar-19
Heck. I CAN see a live bow dart hunt in a western wyoming water hole now. PONY HUNTRESS Allie looking to score on the last paint mare in the green river herd. She looking for the all time record for darting horses. Ya? Hey u guys tried adderall?

From: Dino
27-Mar-19
Feral, not wild, and we have the same issues here in parts of the eastern slopes of the Rockies. Time to cull...

From: billygoat
27-Mar-19

From: Tjw
27-Mar-19
Heck they already make a dart for a crossbow. Medi dart.. If u held a darting hunt , bow hunters would pay for a permit.

From: Tjw
27-Mar-19
U would be saving wild horses (I know feral) .. protecting wildlife habitat. And hunting.. u just got to get past worthless government bureaucracy..

From: DL
27-Mar-19
A friend of ours years ago said young burro ribs were very good.

From: Bigdan
27-Mar-19
On one morning deer hunt in Nevada I saw 230 horses 112 cows and 5 deer they need to go

From: scentman
27-Mar-19
couldn't drag me away...

From: Tyler
27-Mar-19
They are feral here in Australia and we are legally allowed to shoot them just as any other feral species. Lots of guys do but most won't post or share photos as many are sensitive to the idea lol.

From: elkstabber
27-Mar-19
Horse meat is commonly served at the better restaurants around the world. I've had it in Italy and think it was similar to elk, but maybe a little tougher. I've heard (but haven't confirmed) that the US is the only member of the United Nations that doesn't allow the harvest/consumption of horse meat.

From: Scar Finga
27-Mar-19
Horse is very delicious! We have them all over the place here in AZ! They have to feed them to keep them healthy:/ What's that tell you????

From: Spookinelk
27-Mar-19
Birth control ????? BLM has never successfully reduced a herd using contraceptives, horses live too long. Sterilizing a mare and turning her loose again does nothing to reduce the current population issue, even if she dies without ever giving birth again you still have her out on the range for up to 20 years. Contraception might be a useful tool after a big herd reduction but it's not the answer for reducing the current population crisis, there are already too many horses! The real world solution to this problem is new legislation that allows for disposal of horses without conditions.We could help solve the trade deficit by shipping meat to China!

Tjw, another solution could be a guy on Adderall with a high powered rifle...LOL,

From: Woods Walker
27-Mar-19
There's no question that they need to be controlled. But beware of the backlash if we hunt them. You think that hunting get's a black eye from some AR groups now? Start posting "hero" shots of hunters grinning over dead horses and all the crap we've received so far for deer hunting will PALE by comparison. I mean, we don't even have horse slaughter houses anymore, which we should, but you think the public will accept hunting them? Get real.

From: elvspec
27-Mar-19
Not only is the management of the wild horse herds an ecological disaster but it is monetary disaster as well costing tax payers millions ans millions of dollars each year. Horses are shipped to holding facilities around the country when they're pulled off of the open ranges that can't support their growing numbers.

I hunted Oklahoma last season and went through portions of private ranch lands where literally thousands of wild horses were being held. These land owners are more than likely being paid more by the tax payers to hold the horses then they can make raising their own.

I grew up with horses and love the heck out of em but what is going on with the wild horse thing is absolutely ridiculous.

From: Deertick
27-Mar-19
Not a lot of winners here. The “wild” (feral) horse advocates need to realize the unsustainable nature of their position.

If something can’t go on forever, it won’t. And how those things end can be bad, terrible, or worse. The fact that we don’t have a good choice isn’t a reason to avoid action.

I really like horses. But that shouldn’t exempt me from sustainable management. The adoption market is minimal now. Horses confined to small pens is worse than slaughter. Worse.

Conservation first. Multiple use public land is always going to have conflict among users, but we have to have a common goal, and conservation is as good of a goal as I can think of. It’s more important to me than hunting, mining, and ranching. If feral horse advocates can’t agree, then we have a huge problem.

From: eBike John
27-Mar-19
Great video! I never thought about horses being such an issue like that. thanks for sharing

From: Woods Walker
27-Mar-19
Oh, they're an issue all right. And they were an issue ecologically 50 years ago when I went to the University Of Wyoming for Range Management and worked for the Soil Conservation Service. This isn't anything new by any means. But at least back then we had legal horse slaughter.

From: TrapperKayak
27-Mar-19
The lack of action to solve this problem is due to the ignorance and irrationality (on a massive, uneducated scale of those with radical opinions and agendas only, not real concern) displayed in the response of the commenter that wrote: "More BS from pro-slaughter". THERE in lies the problem. Its the same with most of our 'divisive' issues these days.

From: midwest
27-Mar-19
scentman.....first thing that went through my head, too. ;-)

From: cnelk
27-Mar-19
Introduce wolves to curb the wild horses.... :)

From: TrapperKayak
27-Mar-19
Ship them back to Spain. Three positive results: 1) Habitat regeneration for native fauna, 2) Horses remain alive, and 3) Monetary profits from Trade surplus help balance the US budget. One problem: Lefties will scream discrimination against immigrants by sending them back to their country of origin.

From: elvspec
27-Mar-19
TRAPPER, I couldn't agree more. Ultimately, horses are livestock, at least the ones roaming the free range are. Horse meat is eaten in other countries, including our closest neighbor to the north, France, etc.. Its silly idealism and romanticism that's caused the problems with these animals.

From: JusPassin
27-Mar-19
Very easy to develop a dart that also applies spray paint when it hits. Be quite easy to dart the animals and mark them at the same time.

From: Treeline
27-Mar-19
Again, the horse lovers have done a much better job than us on the PR campaign. Got to really get the message out to everyone how big a failure the whole program has been and get it changed on a legislative level.

From: Treeline
27-Mar-19
Too bad the wolves would take horses as a last result, cnelk.

From: Bigdan
27-Mar-19

Bigdan's embedded Photo
Bigdan's embedded Photo
Here is a herd of all bays

From: Tjw
27-Mar-19
The blm has already had success on one herd. It went from 14 foals to four in a year. U just have to have less births than deaths.. u can't tell me that us bow hunters can't do better than some goverment biologists.. I know they can live for 20 years but we just got to stop the bleeding and get going the right direction..

27-Mar-19
Tjw, you realize that there are over 9 million feral horses in the US, correct? What you're proposing would cost billions and billions of dollars.

From: Paul@thefort
27-Mar-19
According to stats, there are 82,000 feral horses across the US. a huge chuck in the West. The BLM holds around 17,000 in pens. There are 9 million private held horses.

I have a good friend who has raised horses and sells them for years here in Colorado. He is also a big game hunter as well. I asked his opinion concerning the feral horses and he stated, "Yes, they need to be managed like any other wild animal." And this comes from a guy to loves his horses but also recognizes the destruction to the habitat that the over population of un-managed feral horses cause.

From: Treeline
27-Mar-19
If folks will remember, sage grouse were being pushed to be included as threatened species recently. Probably the greatest impact to sage grouse habitat is the horses.

Horses are also a significant impact on the desert tortoises in Arizona.

They drink a huge amount of water in desert environments and what vegetation they don't eat, they tromp into dust. They have significant negative impacts on ALL native wildlife.

This information needs to get wider coverage.

27-Mar-19
Oops, my bad. I read the stats wrong.

From: Tilzbow
27-Mar-19

Tilzbow's embedded Photo
Tilzbow's embedded Photo
I've posted this picture before but thought I'd bring it up again. This is a fenced area that's about 1/2 mile from my house. I live on the outskirts of Reno, Nevada. The picture was taken in October 2017 and it's worse now. The horses are literally turning the desert to dust for miles around my house and the condition of the range has degraded dramatically since we built 15 years age. They've pulled out about 25% of the sage brush to get to the only grass that remains and they've even starting eating small tree limbs off of some of my trees. I've seen them eat green tumble weed and dried out mustard weed stalks on multiple occasions. They've also wiped out a desert shrub that's the size of sagebrush and apparently edible. I see other areas of Nevada that are in worse shape and that meadow in Dan's picture above and the meadow in the video are good examples of the destruction these animals will cause if their populations aren't managed. This damage is more common place than not and it's difficult to find unaffected areas in our state.

From: TrapperKayak
27-Mar-19
Check out this article: www.outdoorlife.com, "Endangered Species Fight: The Civil War for Sage Grouse Conservation" This is happening right now. It may factor in and be a tool to help with the decision to reduce wild horses on BLM and other federal range lands.

From: Owl
27-Mar-19
I don't know if I could arrow a horse but I'd like to find out.

From: HUNT MAN
27-Mar-19
I know I could. Would love to have the chance some day.

From: smarba
27-Mar-19
Feral. If legal I'd hunt them in a second and eat them too.

From: Woods Walker
27-Mar-19
No way horse hunting will fly with the American people, period. And never forget that hunters are the MINORITY, by a huge margin. We'd be picking a fight that we have no way of winning. What we need to push for is to bring back horse slaughter in the US and go that route with the feral ones as well as any unwanted ones instead of seeing them starve/die from neglect by the people who can't afford them anymore. If people don't want to see them go to slaughter than they can adopt as many as they can stand. The ones that don't go to the packing house.

From: Tilzbow
27-Mar-19
I think I could. The horses around my home aren't classified as "wild" by the BLM, they're classified as "feral" and because of that the state is supposed to manage them although they're hands are tied by the horse lover groups. So the population continues to grow unchecked.

Back to running an arrow through one... Because they're classified as feral, they might not be protected under the wild horse and burro act. If that's the case, there might not be a true legal barrier to "harvesting" one. I've always wondered this but never researched it. Would be interesting to find out for sure if horses classified as "feral" are protected in any way.

Before anyone jumps on this and states, "They're all feral!" I'm merely mentioning the way the government classifies them which ultimately dictates who's responsible for managing them. It may also relate to the protections they receive under the wild horse and burro act.

Lastly, we have a large tribal reservation around Pyramid Lake, 30 miles north of here. There was large wild fire within the reservation last year. The tribe determined the land could no longer support the "feral" reservation horses that the gov't agreed they own. As a result the tribe contracted with a private company to round up all of their "feral" horses. They were able to round up horses that weren't actually on the reservation since it was somehow determined these were actually the tribe's horses based on proximity. These horses quickly got shipped out of state and likely ended up in a Mexican slaughter house within days. The tribe got this right!

From: APauls
27-Mar-19
Make it legal. Arrow one, and catch his buddy to help you haul the first one out. When you get back to the truck arrow that one too. Win win

From: Two Feathers
27-Mar-19
Alpo - they make good dog food.

From: Ucsdryder
27-Mar-19
I didn’t realize there were people that were so obsessed with horses. I grew up on a ranch and there were always horses in the pasture. I always saw them as a tool, a pain in the ass tool.

From: Thornton
27-Mar-19
My late father roped three wild horses in the desert of Southern California back in tge1950's. They'd spot them in a small plane, then land in a dry creek where they had an army surplus jeep waiting. They'd chase them down and rope one. He said he was able to break two of the three he caught. He said the military ended up killing them off for some reason years later.

From: Glunt@work
27-Mar-19
"The Misfits". Clark Gable and Marilyn Monroe. Gable plays an middle age cowboy who makes a meager living "mustangin'". They used a plane as well.

From: Dino
27-Mar-19
I am with Huntman....I'd love to dart one!!!

From: Spookinelk
27-Mar-19
I thought Glen Danzig was the lead in The Misfits..........Who's this Clark Gable guy?

From: del_binari
27-Mar-19
Government offering a $1,000 to anyone who meets the adoption criteria and wants a feral horse. They can’t give them away, and I bet they won’t find many takers on their offer.

I counted 126 horses in one group on a water hole I was antelope hunting back in the 90’s I can only imagine it is worse today.

From: BOHNTR
28-Mar-19
They’re everywhere up here where I’m at.....big media event up here with the feral horse lovers, as it appears some of the local Heber folks are shooting them and letting them lay......especially after hey we’re taking over water sources designed for wildlife (elk and deer). I’m not upset they are finding some shot.....I am upset that tax dollars are used to supplement their envasive ass!

From: cubdrvr
29-Mar-19

cubdrvr's Link
The courts aren’t helping.

From: APauls
29-Mar-19
Oh c'mon guys thinking that humans are somehow above animals is total speciesism.

I learned that word the other day. There are literally people out there that think that somehow people who care more about humans than other animals are out of line, and humans should never kill animals, and yet in the same breath they have no qualms with animals killing animals lol. Listen to that logic. These people vote guys.

From: Treeline
30-Mar-19
Nor do those same “people” have any qualms with killing human babies...

Messed up in the head for sure!

From: chillkill
30-Mar-19
You could set up an abattoir and use them for dog food.I find it very difficult to believe that you dont have a knackers yard over there,considering all the horses that people have.The racing industry alone would get rid of thousands of horses a year, not that you turn the best horses into dog food.Just saying it one answer of course.

From: Shaft2Long
30-Mar-19
Interesting that BLM and Forest Service are mandated to manage the horses and burros as part of a healthy ecosystem. The horses and burros are non native, what’s to manage? I’m not heartless but if non native, even invasive species is hurting the indigenous population they need to be removed.

From: Elkpacker1
31-Mar-19
Kill a horse, wow. They are a living history of this nation. If quite a few folks saw this hunters and anti's alike would vote for the horse every time. I have several Mustangs I captured in OR who are part of my annual hunts for elk and part of my family.

From: svrelk
31-Mar-19
We've got a wild herd right here in western Montana.. they run just south of Miller Creek into the sapphires in the summer. the stallions are pretty aggressive from what I've heard..

From: TrapperKayak
01-Apr-19
Whether no native or indigenous, or any other concern one may have with them, they need to be controlled and managed if habitat is degraded. That means removal. If lethal removal is the only feasible option after other methods are tried and failed, then it must be done, or native species and its habitat will be sacrificed. That is unacceptable.

From: Bowsiteguy
01-Apr-19
Our local livestock auction yard (one of the big ones in the West) used to run horses through. At times the horses were better at converting the feed available, and you could make money on the gain. The market was actually timed to the school schedule in Europe. An old horse, rather than be left to rot alive in a small pasture until he died, could be taken to the yard and sold. Not any more. The high desert sage habitat is disappearing, not just from the horse fiasco, but fire and cheatgrass crowding are also destroying it in huge swaths. That's why Sage Grouse are key, if we are going to keep any sage high desert as we know it.

From: WYelkhunter
01-Apr-19
Almost every horse on the range is feral and goes back to a horse that either got a way from someone or one someone couldn't feed and just turned out. They are destroying the land because they are left unchecked and nothing is being done to take care of the over population. Most areas are at a minimum 2 times there AML and a lot of areas are 10 times over.

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