Bowsite.com

I would recommend you speak with John and he'll help you decide which bike to go with.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s75aujgHMeQ

For what you want it for I would highly recommend one!

Mike

I got to know mine better by riding around in town with 2 ~~ 5 gallon water jugs in each panniered's as the weight shift takes some time to learn/anticipate.

Then I went on dirt roads and on Legal trails.

Yes, I busted my azzzzzz a few times on the Rocky Trails!

My Rad is rated @ 50lbs each side rail/panniered's and 100lbs on the back rack, easily a boned off meat elk.

I have never riden my Rad with that much wieght on it, I walk along side and use the Throttle Assit for the steeper terrain going Up and the brakes for the steeper coming Down!!

WEAR-a-HELMET!!

Good luck, Robb

Huh?? You want to explain that. Not true as far as I know. If so, please post a reference

Huh?? You want to explain that. Not true as far as I know. If so, please post a reference

However he said, for bowhunting, not to worry about it, there are so few people using the woods, it will be a non issue,,,,,, he even said, there are a lot of areas with berms on the entrance to the road. if its not posted as no motor vehicles, which many are, and you are not bothering anyone, go ahead and use it, to get back to your spots.

I got his info, so at least in my spots, not a big deal. I saw them as low as 1500 last weekend at the trade shows. We have a place in Wisconsin where I can get a lesson, and rent one, for a week of use, if I want,,,,, I think I will do that

I could get back quick to a lot of spots, that would be nice,,,,,, but I am not dealing with a crowded area either, due to big areas, with not that many deer.......

https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/all-terrain-electric-bike-series

I want to be sure that people don't get the wrong idea. Sounds like things are good on STATE land for use of Ebikes. But most people who want to hunt with one will be taking them on federal land (BLM or USFS). I am assuming that it is still currently "technically" illegal to take them on (non-motorized) foot and mountain bike trails only on federal lands?

I am not trying to start an argument. I REALLY want to be able to buy one and us it on Federal land I hunt. Just want to be sure that it is finally really, in all cases legal. We are not there yet, right? As I understand it, officials in certain areas might be "looking the other way" but the last time I asked a forest service official where I hunt (USFS) he said he would write me a ticket. Hope that changes in the near future

The concern I've heard expressed was about the "speed", but no assist-bike rider I know comes close to riding like the reckless kamikaze MTB maniacs who run hikers and horseback riders off the trails. Misplaced concern by bureaucrats who don't understand.

The new Illinois e-bike law regarding electric assist bicycles was clarified earlier this month when Illinois Governor Bruce Rauner signed a bill outlining their use on roads and paths. The new law, however, leaves the door open for municipalities throughout the state to restrict their use in some places where traditional bicycles are allowed. The law goes into effect on January 1, 2018. Electric Bikes Defined Low speed electric bikes, or “e-bikes”, are bicycles with a low powered motor that assists the rider with pedaling. Their allure is that e-bike riders may travel longer distances, and carry more weight, easier than they would with their traditional cousins opening biking to more people and for a wider range of uses. Their arguable downside is that they allow riders to travel faster than they otherwise might with very little effort, potentially placing themselves and others in danger. Bicycle manufacturers, who see the sale of e-bikes as a growth area, have been working with lawmakers around the country to clarify what an e-bike is and where they may be used. Illinois E-Bike Law The new law defines an e-bike as “a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts,” and which falls into one of three defined classes. A Class 1 e-bike is one “that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches a speed of 20 mph.” A Class 2 e-bike is one that does not necessarily require the rider to pedal to activate the motor. Rather the motor may be used exclusively to power the bike, but ceases when the bike hits 20 mph. A Class 3 e-bike, like a Class 1 bike, provides assistance only when the rider pedals, but ceases once it hits 28 miles per hour. The statute states that, “A ‘low-speed electric bicycle’ is not a moped or a motor driven cycle.” Illinois is the sixth state to adopt an e-bike three-class system, according to Bicycle Retailer. The class into which a particular e-bike falls impacts the equipment sold with the bike and who may ride it. For example, the Illinois statute requires Class 3 e-bikes to be equipped with a speedometer. All e-bikes must be labeled at the point of sale with their classification, top speed and motor wattage. To operate a Class 3 e-bike, the rider must be at least 16 years of age. Importantly, the law is explicit that the same statewide rules that apply to traditional bicycles, also apply to e-bikes. “A person may operate a low-speed electric bicycle upon any highway, street, or roadway authorized for use by bicycles, including, but not limited to, bicycle lanes.” What you can do on a traditional bike, you can do on an e-bike. One of the goals of the new law was to provide clarity and consistency for manufacturers, distributors, and buyers of e-bikes. Currently, the Illinois Vehicle Code provides some guidance regarding e-bikes. Existing law defines e-bikes, consistent with the federal Consumer Product Safety Act, as a bike with operable pedals, a motor of less than 1 horsepower and a maximum speed of less than 20 mph. If the new law offers greater breadth and precision it also provides a trap door for municipalities throughout Illinois to selectively ban their use. A provision of the law permits a person to operate an e-bike “upon any bicycle path unless the municipality, county, or local authority with jurisdiction prohibits” them on that path. (Emphasis added.) The statute does not expressly authorize municipalities to ban street and bike lane use. However, the provision of the law pertaining to path riding could undermine one of the statute’s main goals, to facilitate consistency and eliminate confusion. The State of Colorado recently enacted an e-bike law that similarly allows local municipalities some final say. There, for example, the town of Breckenridge banned e-bikes on a popular bike path to the town of Frisco, according to my Bike Law colleague, Brian Weiss. In Illinois, this flexibility leaves open to question whether, say, Chicago could ban e-bikes on the popular Lakefront Bicycle Path. Moreover, municipalities in Illinois have the power create their own separate rules regarding access to streets and highways under their jurisdiction. Section 11-208 of the Illinois Vehicle Code expressly grants local authorities the right to regulate the “use of highways” and “operation of bicycles.” 625 ILCS 5/11-208. As of now, the Chicago Municipal Ordinance defines a bicycle as a device propelled by human power only. Pretty much everything else is defined as a “vehicle” under the Ordinance. Under Section 9-40-060 of the Chicago Municipal Ordinance vehicles are not permitted to drive, stand or park in on-street bike lanes. This could be a problem for e-bike riders in Chicago and other municipalities that have adopted ordinances similarly inconsistent with the state vehicle code. Next Steps for E-Bikes The growing popularity of e-bikes has the potential to broaden the appeal and use of alternative (non-gasoline using) transportation. They encourage bicycle travel by folks that may not otherwise have the physical ability or predilection to ride a traditional bike. The extra power they provide may also help grow the commercial and industrial use of bicycles, whether it be to haul heavy materials or deliver groceries. Their downside as I see it is when folks buy e-bikes just to go fast. I like riding fast as much as the next person but with speed comes responsibility. When it is too easy to travel 20 mph in an urban bike lane populated by folks on old-fashioned non-motorized bikes there is a greater likelihood for disaster. Also, for the moment, e-bikes are pretty expensive compared to regular bikes, and for a while anyway, will be out of reach for all but the affluent. One of the great things about bikes is that, though not everyone can afford the latest and greatest, virtually all people can afford some type of safe and reliable two wheeled pedal-cycle powered by muscle and sweat. But everything has a downside. If e-bikes mean more seats on saddles, and fewer people behind the wheel, okay then.

I'd be happy to talk to you about what options you have. If you hold off until September I would take up CObowhunter's offer on that Quietkat 1000. you cannot go wrong with that, I sell lots and the power never seizes to amaze everyone. If you have any questions, even if not about the bikes I sell I'd be happy to talk to you and aim in the right direction. One option did come to mind, the Rambo R750XP in the image. The reason I thought of this option is: 1. It's a mid drive Bafang motor so the climbing capabilities are very good. 2. it's a 750 so it's widely considered as non-motorized compared the the 1000 watt. 3. This particular model comes in 2 different drivetrain options. The Carbon painted comes with derailleur and the Camo has the 3 sped hub. the derailleur has a tendency to snap off so the 3 speed internal hub system would avoid that from happening and is easier to maintain.

1. I was riding in a rain storm and shorted out the computer. Without that you just have a really heavy fat tire bike. They replaced it no problem. Thought about putting a condom in my pack to cover it up if I get into another rain storm.

2. In muddy terrain the rear derailleur got gummed up and I couldn't get the chain to stay on.

I did do the hack on mine to increase the power output to motor. Love riding it all around town and it is great for getting in shape for a old fat man with a bad back and knee.

That said, I've ridden some rough stuff and never had an issue with the derailleur (except when it hit the pavement at 70 mph on I-80...). I love the bike, using it now on my turkey hunts, and about to retrofit it with a new front fork with shocks. My only issue is with the low pedal clearance, but I compensate by getting them parallel whenever I need to clear something, then touching the throttle. But there are some single track trails I can't ride because they are rutted a few inches and the pedals won't clear. I asked Rambo about why they are so low and they mentioned something about keeping a low center of gravity, which I get, but a couple more inches wouldn't make that much difference while it would make a big difference in the ridability.

But yes, the 3 spd internal hub was the go to design up until the 1970s, when the derailleur came out the serious cyclists all adopted the derailleur, in Europe the 3 spd hub is still common and considered the model to use for daily getting around but not cycling for sport.

Be sure and take it off in the hot sun though, as it will 'sweat' inside the plastic zip lock and ---- well ya know.....

Good luck, Robb

I had the forest service try to fine me for having an ATV on a designated trail that they had recently closed. But they had not changed the signs and I had also gotten the green light from forest service people by email, so the ticket/fine was torn up.

That said, the fine was going to be $250 and I would suspect they would have also tried to get points against me with the CPW (hunting). Which would not have been good. Do they have lower fines for Ebikes? And what about potential points against you?

As stated I really want to be able to use one but only if it shakes out to be legal

They can't take CPW points because it isn't a State Title 33 violation.

Edit 2: Title 33 requires that any bow carried on an OHV must be fully cased. But the state doesn't consider Class 1 and 2 assist bikes to be OHVs, which is why they don't require OHV permits to ride them in NF. Nobody has an answer on whether a bow on an assist bike needs to be cased. As with nearly every other assist bike question I've asked CPW, the answer is "Nobody has ever asked that question before". State law says they aren't motorized, and the cased bow rule is a state rule, not NF. Yet another cluster....

When I'm riding a closed road in NF that is gradual enough that I don't need steep climbing assist I pop off the battery and put it in my pack. Then Im simply riding a "fat bike", which I do regularly with no assist anyway for the workout.

What is the warranty? All electronics go south sooner or later, and most warrantees expire very quickly. The only ebike manufacturers I know that seriously warranty their ebikes and are guaranteed to still be in business a few years down the road are the traditional bicycle manufacturers (Specialized, Trek, Giant etc.). If you don't have a reputable brant that has been around and is likely to stick around, you are often buying a bike that works until it breaks. It may be worth it to ride it for a couple years, and when it breaks just buy another one - two cheapies will cost about the same as one from a mainstream manufacturer. Most bike shops will only work on their brands. Ebikes are picking up a bad reputation for lawsuits over accidents caused for a variety of reasons, and it isn't worth it for a shop to risk their business trying to work on an off-brand bike.

I have used regular and cargo ebikes (damn that AI autocorrect) hunting, thought I was going to go cargo, but experience has taught me that when I pull the pin, it will be a regular ebike with a trailer. That way you get the rideabilty of a regular bike, and you don't have to worry about a high center of gravity and fore-and-aft weight distribution issues that come with using panniers or riding with a heavily loaded pack. Not saying you can't or shouldn't do it, but be aware it can cause problems, and an accident miles from nowhere can be deadly serious.

Still looking for a trailer that can carry a couple hundred lbs of gear. It would have to be able to balance the load relative to the trailer wheel, and so far I haven't seen one. Can anyone recommend one? Might have to design and make one myself.

Ditto on the person that said get used to riding around town before you get on a trail. It's pretty intuitively obvious that riding on smooth pavement, wide streets, etc. are a heck of a lot easier to work out the balance, steering, starting and stopping, dismounting etc. issues than on a trail. Plus it would be good for the rednecks who don't ride bikes to see some rednecks who do - we're not just a bunch of lycra-clad wimps. Heck wear camo - really open their eyes.

Have had no problems whatsoever with the Mules or Rambo, besides an occasional brake or derailleur adjustment that I would do on my conventional MTBs anyway. Couldn't be happier, except next time I would pay extra for the highest capacity battery they make (25 ah vs. the 17 ah we have now). Proper battery maintenance and storage is critical.

Got my Rambo in 2018, rode it a LOT where I live in the mountains, then upgraded to Mules in 2021. We ride them a LOT, in rugged terrain. Wonderful tools.

Gears shifting on their own has nothing to do with the brand of bike. That is a poor set up. I can make Walmart bikes shift decently. You need a new mechanic.

As for the battery, that’s the manufacture.