Bad day for this poacher
Contributors to this thread:International
From: spike78
06-Apr-19
spike78's Link
Rhino poacher trampled by elephant and then eaten by lions. Bad way to go!
From: standswittaknife
07-Apr-19
good for the lions and elephant....
From: timex
07-Apr-19
it's a sad state of affairs. 1 rhino horn is worth something like 10.000 in a land of extreme poverty
From: Dale06
07-Apr-19
I love happy endings.
From: Boreal
07-Apr-19
Sad deal all the way around.
From: Ambush
07-Apr-19
Why do these people poach? Think about. They are not after a trophy for the wall or media attention. They are motivated by money, yes, but not for a new truck or more gear or prestige. They mostly poach to put actual food in their families mouths. Not really poaching NA style.
Should it be stopped? Absolutely! But to high five the death of a desperate man is really pretty sad.
From: Ucsdryder
07-Apr-19
I have to imagine this guy has a family and is making pennies a day if he’s lucky. What would you guys do to feed your daughter? Before wishing death on anybody and sounding like those people excited about the guide being killed by a grizzly, maybe think about this guys situation as you type on your 800 dollar iPhone...
From: PECO
07-Apr-19
If the guy wants to feed his family, he can "poach" a deer or antelope type animal. My South African friend says there are plenty of warthogs everywhere in Africa, and they are good to eat also.
From: Bowboy
07-Apr-19
Perfect happy ending to a poacher IMO.
From: AZ~Rich
07-Apr-19
Those poachers were thinking far beyond simply feeding their families. Just like most criminals, they were after the big, easy money; which for them is elephant ivory and rhino horn. Sorry for his family that he had to die, but these poachers know the risks. He could have just as easily died from a bullet fired by anti-poaching officials who have "shoot-on-sight" policies.
From: Boreal
07-Apr-19
Imagine living in a world where the best solution to your situation is to go out each day and risk your life to kill a rhino. If The elephants, rhinos, lions or black mambas don't kill you, the game wardens might. The guys risking it all are not the ones making big money.
My biggest problem today is blowing leaves out of decorative garden beds at the end of my driveway and cars keep driving by blowing them back in,so I can relate.
From: standswittaknife
07-Apr-19
AZ-Rich is spot on. Nothing different from these guys and drug smugglers...
From: Matt
07-Apr-19
We are fortunate to have so many posters with such a deep understanding of the economic circumstances that exist in South Africa.
From: drycreek
07-Apr-19
Karma !
From: TSJ
07-Apr-19
Makes me wonder how many animals he has poached.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
07-Apr-19
An average rhino horn from a white rhino weighs around 4 kg. Rhino horn on the black market is worth approx $60,000 per kg. That’s about a quarter of a million for one rhino horn. Poaching rhino is all about money, nothing more.
From: Shaft2Long
07-Apr-19
Mainstream media always lump “Hunter” in with “poacher” as if the word are interchangeable, same meaning. That’s B.S.
From: txhunter58
07-Apr-19
Do I High five about a poachers death, no. However, if advertising the outcome lowers the act, then a good thing has been accomplished.
But don't give me "all criminals are just doing it to feed their families crap". Try that line in CA as it might go over better.
As stated, there are a lot of animals there that can be taken to feed people. Rhino poaching is all about big money..
From: Ambush
07-Apr-19
With respect tx, I plainly and deliberately differentiated between NA poachers (or all criminals as you changed it to) and people actually poaching for food in RSA.
And many on Bowsite have stated that they have no problem if a poor (American) country boy snags a deer or two to make ends meet and feed his kids.
From: txhunter58
07-Apr-19
And I don't either.
Maybe I should have worded it differently, sorry, but I don't see the comparison between this poacher and someone who really is feeding his family with the animals killed. Can't try to justify this guys actions unless "all" is where you are heading.
From: ki-ke
07-Apr-19
I don't believe for a minute that these guys are killing Rhinos and Elephants simple to "feed their families". It is likely the most lucrative way for them to make a living. They are willing to assume the associated risks, (shoot on sight poacher patrols, jail, lions, elephant trampling)....
I believe the mindset is parallel to NA drug dealers, human traffickers and the Somalian pirates.
From: Slimpikens
07-Apr-19
Bad way to go
From: Ole Coyote
08-Apr-19
Rhino will be gone forever in my lifetime! If you can poach you should be able to find another way of getting something to eat. Shovel crap at a farm step up be a man not a parasite. Took a chance did not work out for him tough for the family. I can't imagine needing anything bad enough to risk death over a meal. I have always found a job even though I have had a few that really sucked they still provided food and a place to live in. Can you imagine being stepped on as a death?
From: Ambush
08-Apr-19
I guess it’s just hard for North Americans to understand utter hopeless, helpless desperation. There is no welfare office or food bank or social worker for most of these people. People literally die of starvation.
I’m also fully aware that much of the situation is self inflicted or at least inflicted on them by their own corrupt leaders. Spend a week or two in a Zimbabwe town. ( not an outfitters estate either) Saying anything more would get me labeled a racist. But the vast majority of poachers are not risking a bullet from a game keeper to get an antelope for a trophy, they are just hungry. Ivory poachers are a different level, of course, but still fueled by desperate situations. And like the drug trade only a few at the top are driving Escalades and eating in good restaurants. The rest are just pathetic pawns. Complicit victims.
If you can’t muster any compassion for the trampled man, than at least give thanks that you will never be in his situation here in NA.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
Elephant/rhino poachers are not poor hungry victims, they’re part of a huge crime syndicate mostly based out of Mozambique. These syndicates are killing for profit not food and their foot soldiers in the bush are trained and more than willing to kill any human interfering in their evil business. These are not poor misunderstood people, they’re killers and should be dealt with as such. Additionally, international trade in ivory and rhino horn should be legalized and monitored which will decrease the demand on those illegally obtained and diminish the poaching syndicates substantially. The damage already done to the populations of elephant and rhino is tremendous. They poison, snar, and shoot these animals relentlessly and the underfunded anti poaching units are ill equipped to handle it. Poaching is the single biggest threat to these two iconic species. It must be stamped out with extreme prejudice.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
Beyond sad!
From: Lost Man
08-Apr-19
Funny how none of those poor hungry helpless family men never take any of the meat.
From: JRW
08-Apr-19
Ambush,
Sadly, our society simply doesn't value human life, in our out of the womb.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
Beware the bleeding heart. It often bleeds without discretion or context.
From: Ambush
08-Apr-19
Ken, if the snowflakes made me wear a T-shirt with all the labels they would force upon me, that T-shirt would be an XXXX large and hang to my knees.
No bleeding heart here.
From: Shaft2Long
08-Apr-19
Can or has it been proven that the poacher was actually dead before the lions found him? He may have just been to wounded to move or unconscious. I guess with only the britches and skull left there’s no way to tell.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
He died much the same way as the animals he slaughtered died...good riddance.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
Ken Moody Safaris's Link
It’s a war for wildlife in Africa.
From: JRW
08-Apr-19
"He died much the same way as the animals he slaughtered died...good riddance."
Sounds a lot like the posts I read from animal rights extremists every time a hunter dies afield.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
If you don’t know the difference between sustainable use conservation and outright criminality and destruction of wildlife then you’re an idiot.
From: Lone Bugle
08-Apr-19
So wrong that they say he was a hunter.... Has was a poacher. Two very different things. Propaganda....
From: JRW
08-Apr-19
"If you don’t know the difference between sustainable use conservation and outright criminality and destruction of wildlife then you’re an idiot."
This from someone who rejoices in the death of a human being for trying to illegally kill an animal. But hey, I'm $ure you have your rea$on$.
From: JRW
08-Apr-19
"If you don’t know the difference between sustainable use conservation and outright criminality and destruction of wildlife then you’re an idiot."
This from someone who rejoices in the death of a human being for trying to illegally kill an animal. But hey, I'm $ure you have your rea$on$.
From: standswittaknife
08-Apr-19
Ken, thank you for chiming in here.. finally someone with some knowledge that ACTUALLY has his hand in the dirt. You guys are making this guy out to be on the breadlines starving when you finally get first hand knowledge you go another route.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
I rest my case JW...These poachers are part of massive crime syndicates that are quickly decimating elephant and rhino populations to the point of extinction. In countries where hunting has been banned these species are practically non existent as no money exists to fund any kind of anti poaching response. I’ve seen the results of what these poachers do and it’s pathetic. They kill without any care for anything other than money. They are nothing more than mercenaries and they kill animals and humans alike. Game rangers are killed by these thugs every year but right, let’s mourn the scumbag. I feel nothing more than contempt for these criminals just the same as I’d feel if one less pedophile, rapist, or murderer experienced the same fate. I am happy there’s one less in the bush now carrying out these horrific deeds. Save your silly misguided bullshi* for someone else cause I’ve been there and witnessed time and again what poinsoning, snaring, and poaching of wildlife looks like while you’re here playing keyboard morality policeman.
From: Treeline
08-Apr-19
Ken has it 100% right and has a hell of a lot more experience and background in this case.
It is truly and unbelievably sickening how these poaching rings operate. There is never any meat taken back to their “starving families”. With the price so high on rhino horns and elephant tusks, it certainly draws out the criminal element.
The only, ONLY reason there are any elephants or rhinos left is because of the sport hunting industry that is supporting the conservation and protection of those species.
I have absolutely no pity for the poacher.
Only a twinge of sadness that the rest of the party didn’t meet the same fate or worse.
Unfortunately, they got caught by the local authorities and will likely be back out in the bush to line the pockets of the corrupt police and judges in short order.
From: JRW
08-Apr-19
Of cour$e, Ken, and animal$ are more important than people. At lea$t, that’$ what you and Peta $ay. Be$t of luck to you.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
08-Apr-19
Put the shovel down.
From: JRW
08-Apr-19
Ken,
Why? I’m proud of the fact that I value human life, just like you’re proud of the fact that you don’t.
From: TrapperKayak
09-Apr-19
If you want to put a stop to all these atrocities, you put a stop to the MARKET that pays the big $$$ for the horn and ivory. Same as putting a stop to the drug cartels, by taking away the DEMAND for the drugs. But how easy is that??? NOT at ALL! But its worth trying. It takes a huge, combined effort by all. You can't take away an Asian's sex drive any easier than you can kill the addict's cravings, but it has to start somewhere, and that, my friends is going to take some real time and effort - starting with education, enforcement, stopping the trafficking (like enforcing our border control), and the whole nine yards - not just one thing. It ain't gonna happen over night, but instead of celebrating a death on social media (and sounding like some internet tough guy) the death of a troubled man in a troubled 'world', go do something useful and positive to help put a stop to it. I don't mean travel to SA, just quit bitching and say something positive for starters. Post something that would help some little bit to educate someone. Try sending out something that could go viral, like educating the masses on something like this: Find and post articles on the truth and evidence that rhino horn is not an true aphrodisiac, it is all in the imagination. (That seems pretty puny but it sure beats some of the abysmal posts I've seen on here from some of you who may claim to be 'Christian' that send out 'prayers' in other threads). Seriously deranged bunch of posts here. Get positive for once in your life. I don't like poachers any more than any of you, but wasting time posting bs is useless. Do something about it instead.
From: TrapperKayak
09-Apr-19
"..quickly decimating elephant and rhino populations to the point of extinction." While much of what you say about the rhino and ivory trade, and the poaching rings is true, and yes, rhino are nearing extinction (one species is), elephants are not in danger of extinction - that part is BS. Elephants are over abundant in some African countries. Not all - but some. And I agree poachers should be handed the harshest penalty and should be all locked up for years and executed if they take human lives, but to celebrate their death is just as bad as what they are guilty of. You are no better than they are if that is the case. Who are you, the supreme Judge? I say have an all out war of the poaching rings, but it is just that, a WAR, and it has to have its rules of engagement just like drug cartel crime fighting. Otherwise, you become the criminal. You take a rhino or elephants life, you spend 20 years behind bars. Take a human life, spend life in prison, or get executed. that ought to be a pretty good deterrent. And go become a law enforcement officer instead of pissing and moaning from the safety of your trophy-filled man cave computer room.
From: krieger
09-Apr-19
I hear what you are saying, but good luck changing Asian tradition that is probably over a thousand years old....
Human life definitely has value, but unfortunately humans make choices that make themselves of no value, or even a debit to society and creation itself.... They should be dealt with accordingly.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
09-Apr-19
I fund anti poaching units and participate in anti poaching efforts on the ground and have personally removed hundreds of poaching snares in both Zimbabwe and South Africa. What have you done?
From: Ambush
09-Apr-19
There are plenty of orgs that celebrate every time an animal “murderer” is killed. I just don’t think hunters should join them. We normally do our best to make a distinction between human and animal life.
From: TrapperKayak
09-Apr-19
I spent a few grand in SA a couple years ago with a safari PH and took two animals, neither of which I got back - the taxi took my money and bolted - declared 'bankruptcy'. I got screwed and have only pictures to show for it, and the memories and experience. So in a way, I got 'poached' too - but you don't hear me wishing death on the guy. Sure, I'd like my trophies that I paid for... So what I've done is contribute money to the also-corrupt South African government in the form of 35% tax on the money I spent on my safari. That money Should go toward anti-poaching efforts, but probably went instead to line the pockets of some new SA 'president' who my PH said can't even communicate a properly spoken English declaration. My PH even got screwed by his own cousin (the bankrupt taxi) in that his reputation got compromised and he has to try to recoup his clientel which got screwed by the taxi on the lam. I can't afford to 'do something' in SA, but I can definitely say I did a tiny bit to help, while I was there. If not for hunters like me employing PH services, and putting a legal price on legal game, there would be blatant and rampant poaching of plains game too. Why the hell do I have to tell YOU that, that is how you make your living...?? Isn't sport hunting the best thing for African animal population abundance? Huh?
From: Ken Moody Safaris
09-Apr-19
Quite a bit of incoherence there but diatribe aside, yes quota controlled, regulated,sustainable use conservation hunting is the most logical and proven method of enhancing wildlife populations. That is a well known fact.
From: TrapperKayak
09-Apr-19
Since when did Asian tradition over 1000s of years include an African species horn??? Start with Gangis Kahn? Its bad enough they do it with elk antler - but rhino horn? For crying out loud, who started that bs 1000s of years ago. Its pure stupid, and it can be stopped. Give them Spanish fly instead - (lol, no one gives a $#!+ if flies go extinct.. JK). Isn't elk antler good enough? This rhino horn trade can be stopped before its too late. I am tired of lame excuses for all these problems. You have to fight this crime - starts with eliminating demand though. Poppy trade - opium, heroin, etc. all the trafficking would end with no demand. Like I said, its a herculean effort, same with human sex trade here and abroad, but it all has one thing in common - DEMAND. And education is probably the best way to eliminate demand. How much effort is really going into all that? On all these fronts? Enforcement is not a solution nor a prevention, its is a bandaid. Doing away with demand is the solution.
From: Shaft2Long
09-Apr-19
There is the fact this poacher chose, made a conscious decision, to participate in this activity. It’s real hard to feel bad for him.
From: TrapperKayak
09-Apr-19
Declaring 'incoherence' and condescending statements add to your obvious inability to comprehend what I said. I'll make it clear: I got screwed by a SA outfit, but I'd still re-book a trip with him, vs going with you. There, how's that for clarity?
From: Ken Moody Safaris
09-Apr-19
Have a good day!
From: TrapperKayak
09-Apr-19
Thanks for the pm - seriously, that made sense.
From: Ken Moody Safaris
09-Apr-19
No problem. I’ve been dealing with these criminals for 25 years and it is very personal to me.
From: elkstabber
09-Apr-19
Thank you Ken for sharing your experience with us.
From: Hancock West
09-Apr-19
Ken, you nailed it, thank you. I don't wish death upon anyone but I don't feel bad for what happened to this guy. Clearly these poachers don't care about the meat because the carcus's and all the meat are always left behind. Unfortunately any natural resource with any value in Africa always causes bloodshed. Ivory, Diamonds, gems, oil, etc. Corruption at all levels.
From: APauls
09-Apr-19
I don't want Africans telling me how to manage the wildlife in my back yard so I certainly wouldn't feel fit to talk about what should be done in Africa!
That being said I certainly do appreciate the opinion of someone who lives there. Being so far removed from the situation it is difficult to shed a tear for people that do kill people en route to their illegal poaching activities. Animals are one thing. People are another.
From: TD
09-Apr-19
There are humans who's right to live has been revoked. Used to publicly hang them. Now we kill em.... more humanely.... good grief....
And nothing anyone says or any kind of happy dance nor midnight candle vigil will change what happened.... or why.... not even a little bit. Tears in a river.....
From: TrapperKayak
09-Apr-19
Just for the record, I'm not saying the poacher didn't get what he deserved, but we as hunters can do better to promote our credibility and our cause if we don't spout emotional rants wishing death on people who illegally kill animals, which is what the radical lefties/PETA nutballs do. We don't want to sound like that, I can assure you.
