I had one flying over my house, I found the owner and told him that if it came over again I was going to shoot it down. He proceeded to tell me he would call the police. I told him nicely that I guess we will see what they have to say. Funny thing, I never did see that drove again.
I think it is very much unethical and it is illegal in Colorado. last year sitting in a tree stand I could hear one flying around, never saw it. Knowing the area pretty good, I knew it was a guide on private land above me. I contacted CPW, they said they would investigate.
I went on ONE guided hunt in my life, to Specimen Ridge in the Absaroka Beartooth wilderness. My outfitter was an honest man, and although no one in our party got an elk, we had a great time and fine experience. Our outfitter's brother also had a 'hunting outfitters 'business', and happened to have a friend who had a fixed wing aircraft. This brother had his buddy fly around and locate elk for him and his clients, subsequently to pursue and kill bulls for every hunter in their party. How about that for convenience? How legal do you thing that is? How 'ethical'? Well, it is none of those - totally illegal, and certainly unethical. Their party rode by our camp on our last day of the 8 day hunt, all of their 'clients' sporting nice 6x6 bulls on their pack horses, proudly smiling. We felt let down. Then our outfitter told us that was his brother, and how he 'worked it' so they could all get into bulls. I felt like turning them in, but how could I prove anything. But what I did feel is I am glad I went with the guys I did, instead of the illegal brother. I could not have felt good about taking a bull that way. I thing this drone issue is akin to the very same thing - just not right IMHO.
It's illegal in many states, including NM. My feeling is they should abide by the same rules as any other aerial scouting (e.g. can't hunt same day airborne, can't scout during season, or whatever rules the State has in place for aerial scouting).
However, in NM they made it explicitly illegal to scout with a drone. No idea how it is enforced.
Trapper you should still make the call,,,,,,, it will give the authorities a heads up, and something to look into, quietly, and like any investigations, they start with information like yours........................32 years on the job, just give them the info,,,,,,
Sorry I stirred up such a hornet's nest. I personally see nothing wrong with flying one around preseason. If you happen to see wildlife so much the better. Not much different than a fixed game cam, in my opinion.
I also would shoot one down flying around my house, without warning the owner.
I made a mistake and watched a short video of a drone chasing an elk herd around. They ran about a mile in a few minutes trying to get away from the thing. Made me dislike drones from that point on and am glad they are illegal for scouting/etc.
At home I use G.E. often to scout areas. Google Earth will do about everything you can legally do with a drone. I don't think the cost is worth the little advantage you would get. Having a drone on your elk hunt is about like having a night vision scope on your rifle just so you can look.
Ground hunter, this was back in 1998, but I should have made that call then, you're right. I am not sure why I didn't actually, except that I was probably in a hurry to head out of town and not have to visit a warden to get asked a bunch of questions. I regret not doing it. it was blatant disregard for the law, and the elk herd.
- bunch of critters and elk country with the 600mm and the mavic
I think they're awesome. Perfectly legal if not hunting within 24 hours around here and think it should stay that way. Harrasing wildlife is a crime regardless how you do it and needs no new laws.
Would love to try the mavic 2, but I don't fly that much to make it worth buying another at this point. I actually have my FAA license and can fly legally for financial gain, though I never have. I just love filming regardless of the right tool for the job.
“. I personally see nothing wrong with flying one around preseason. If you happen to see wildlife so much the better. Not much different than a fixed game cam, in my opinion”
I think you will find most people disagree with you on all of that statement. Especially the last statement. Not many people can harass wildlife with trail cams. Of course Nevada is outlawing trail cams!
What a freaking nightmare. People might have to actually scout!! What is the world coming to????
I've been wanting to get one down to our hunting property after the leaves are off the trees. It's a vantage point I have not had for sure.........we have 160 acres of all timber that I'd like to get a good look at it from just above tree height. Much of it I think I can see in my minds eye but nothing beats the real thing. Pretty sure I'd learn something.
I never said anything about harassing the animals. You can fly high enough they will ignore you.
Unless I missed it this is the only place I could find drones mentioned in the New Mexico proclamation, "Hunt or shoot at any animal from an aircraft or drone or cause any non-domesticated animal to move from its place of rest or change its direction of travel."
With rifles capable of making cold bore shots a grid square away does it really matter if someone uses a drone to fly around? I cant think of many scenarios where a drone would benefit me more than a good set of optics, boots and rain gear.
New Mexico Title 19 – Chapter 31 – Part 10 – 18.104.22.168 – Use of Vehicles and Roads in Hunting
G. Using information gained from air flight:
(1) It shall be unlawful to hunt for or to take, or assist in the hunting for or taking of, any protected species with the use of information regarding location of any protected species gained from the use of any aircraft until 48 hours after such aircraft use.
(2) It shall be unlawful to hunt for or to take, or assist in the hunting for or taking of, any protected species with the use of information regarding location of any protected species gained from the use of any drone at any time.
“ Not much different than a fixed game cam, in my opinion.”
You mean apart from the fact that a drone can tell you exactly where a specific animal beds down and where it is right this very moment without any risk whatsoever of a contaminating the area with human scent?
Well seeing as scouting (boots on the ground, using your senses, experience, learning something everytime you go in the woods, etc.) is a big part of hunting, I guess for people who don't really like hunting all that much but just the killing, a drone would be an desirable and attractive piece of equipment.
Meanwhile in NM, ranchers can and do fly over public land before and during hunting seasons at treetop elevations near their propertys. Guess they're looking for lost cattle while charging a few thousand a head to hunt their propertys.......
I have a tough time understanding how someone can say they thrive on the added challenge in bowhunting yet take every opportunity to make it easier every chance they get. Our maybe they just don't understand what bowhunting is really all about.
I dont have a drone or plan on getting one. Now I do use game cams and knows guys that have 15 + of them.. So why is it that it's ok to use game cams but not a drone?? That's got me thinking, how sportsman am I to be using game cams and then say it's unsportsman for others to use drones.
Drones are certainly in a different class than game cameras. As GF said above, with a drone there is no need to worry about contaminating your area with scent and they can be used to tell you where an animal beds and where they are at a specific moment.
But I get your point, and yes, maybe we should have put the brakes on back when game cameras came on the scene. I do use them to see what is living in my area although they really don't change how I hunt as far as where or when I go. I love seeing not only the big bucks but also the doors, fans and all of the other wildlife that roam my property.
But lately I have been thinking about how they have taken away the excitement I used to feel the first time I ever laid eyes on an animal that previously was only known to me by the size of his track. Now it's "oh I know him" and I've already made the decision on whether he's a "shooter" or not. It does seem like something is missing and I've been contemplating eliminating them.
Teeton: I don't think spy (game) cams are "OK" and I don't use them and would not even if someone gave me one. But that's me. At least with a game cam you need to exercise SOME kind of woodsmanship to know where to put them and you would at least maybe learn a little bit about your area from that experience. But they're not for me. Just more tech junk to have to deal with and worry about someone stealing/breaking. That, and call me old fashioned, but I just love being in the woods and absorbing as much as my senses can take in, whether it be animals, insects, plants, dirt and even rocks and weather. It's my escape TO "reality", and anything that interferes with that I have no use for.
Why wouldn't you use a drone??? I find it much easier to run my drone till I find the animals, then jump on my e-bike and ride to where they are and just shoot em' at 150 yards with my crossbow and mechanical heads..... Screw all that hunting the hard way stuff! Shoe leather is for chumps!
I thought about getting one just to scout for rutting tule elk here on my farm in Ohio. I thought it might be fun to intentionally harass a coyote while I sit on the deck. I guess I could just kill the darn thing, but the coyote would prefer the drone.
Ravin crossweapon & drone just seems like a match made in heaven...or hell. Big Mac & a shake? All gut and no guilt.
I'm sure they have (or will have), and "app/googlebit" thingy to put on your drone that would automatically seek to locate particular bucks that you've named..."Shooter, Dropper, Swamp Donkey, Ridge Runner", etc. after watching them from your smart phone as they fed at your automatic feeder all year. Next they'll have drones that can shoot an arrow so you can "smoke 'em" without even having to go into the woods at all!
I'd have to change my handle from Woods Walker to Woods Viewer. Just think, I could get rid of all that expensive outerwear!
Yeah, Jac and BTM, I'd fell so much more empowered if I had one of these, and a drone to find my animals. I'd really like to get fat, weak, and sedentary in my old age, not have to get up off my duff and go find an animal, and shoot it with some fine creative work of art. I'd rather have a machine(s) do it for me. vroom vroom!
"Never said YOU would harrass animals. But there are certainly those that would."
Like the video of the pronghorn above? Can we assume, that was investigated as wildlife harassment?
One discussion that was had many years ago about legal bowhunting equipment is, do we want to promote prohibiting ALL electronics for bowhunting, or wind up with a constantly changing laundry list of legal and illegal ones. Obviously, we made the wrong choice.
The problem with drones is NOT the drones, it's the morons that operate them with no clue about the regs or even common sense. There should be a license required, or at least some type of certificate showing that the operator knows the rules. I have stopped them numerous times in National Parks, flying them over unsuspecting people/vehicles, and even had one fly ten feet over my windshield while driving down an interstate near a scenic view pull off. A major problem is there is no way to display a registration number on them, so you have to find the operator, not just spot the drone, like a manned aircraft.
"The problem with drones is NOT the drones, it's the morons that operate them with no clue about the regs or even common sense". Ziek, I couldn't agree with you more here. I've known quite a few gun hunters that have made the same statement before. However, they inserted the word bows where you wrote drones. Seems there are "idots" in all disciplines.
LOL, how true! My insurance has paid for several instances that I've cut myself carving out nice wooden and antler crafts designed for traditional weaponry and artistic accessories (but so far I have had zero mishaps with lasers cutting through aluminum risers). ;^)
I apologize for neglecting to put the ':^)' after "...vroom vroom" (as it was my problematic attempt at humor ;) (*** Is it snowing? I thought I saw a hint of snowflakes in the air...*** :) Seriously though, I'm carving a balsa flying camera to launch over my woodlot. Can you help me design a steam engine light enough to remain suspended? My hamster rotors keep failing. The hamsters are too fat..., they keep eating the bait off my corn feeder. :)
Lasers are not used to cut risers. Before we jump on technology and banish it from the hunting world consider walking to your hunting spot. Giving up your glass and making an atlatl wearing a loincloth. Oh and don't forget you can't go to the store and buy that loincloth so if you suck at hunting you will be naked. And no I am not for drones and I don't use game cameras. Just a hillbilly hoping for a little luck.
I'm not in favor of drones for anything besides war, catching illegal immigrants, and agriculture. Certainly not hunting related.
But it is interesting how on all of these threads (cameras, compounds, sighting technology, assist-bikes, rangefinders, lighted nocks, etc..) there are so many who want to draw the line of acceptance on EXACTLY where they are at this place and time in their lives, rather than taking a step back to look at the big picture.
I'm old enough to remember the debate surrounding compounds when they first hit the market. How many of you compound shooters today consider yourselves to be weak and lazy, unwilling to put in the time or effort, just looking for the easy way out?
Your'e hunting future like it or not will be determined by silent non hunter. His or her voice is apart of the outdoors like it or not. Many of this group may be hikers, bikers or just plain tourist. We as hunters will be graded by those people on social media. Just think about Cecil the lion deal; no different. Having said that, think before you use such tactics. Most people have no problem with fair chase hunters, its the attitude of a few hunters make it bad for all. The only winner in this game is the manufacturer and retailer. It called ETHICS. From the review of what has been said, very few of you would be welcome in my camp.
Mostly joking about the fat and lazy comment, but not completely. To me, there are easy ways out, and having a machine-built bow, (Yes, my two recurves are not built by me, but they were by other hand-crafters) made by robotics and lasers, is enabling an 'easy way out. By purchasing and using such contraptions, this promotes the business of machine made devices rather than a self-made artistic tool that does the job incorporating more of a human skill element and challenge. I do use machines - cars, trucks, stoves, and all modern conveniences. But when I can, I also ride my bike to work, cook on an open fire or grill, and hand till a plot to plant gardens. I shovel snow by hand every year even if I am old, instead of snow-blowing. It helps me stay in shape. I ride and hike miles for hunting instead of using 4 wheelers. I rake leaves, don't 'blow' them. I maintain and fix an old mower instead of buying a new one. I am not saying don't use machines. But given a choice like with hunting or physical exercise, I like a challenge, and that means using my own personal hunting skills, hand built tools, and old fashion instinct rather than an airborne camera scouting devise, mechanical bow, or even optics (I rarely if ever use my binocs when hunting). I exercise and maintain my body to add to my own longevity. Its all the same mindset. When someone pokes fun at that, I take notice. But really, I don't care what yo do as long as it does not infringe on my quality of experience and its legal. Drones, trail cams, and robotically-built devices like cps and xbows go against my mindset. They are 'the easy way out' to me. Going to the gym now. My fingers are getting all the exercise...need some balance.... ;)
"Drones are certainly in a different class than game cameras. As GF said above, with a drone there is no need to worry about contaminating your area with scent and they can be used to tell you where an animal beds and where they are at a specific moment. But I get your point, and yes, maybe we should have put the brakes on back when game cameras came on the scene. I do use them to see what is living in my area although they really don't change how I hunt as far as where or when I go. I love seeing not only the big bucks but also the doors, fans and all of the other wildlife that roam my property.
But lately I have been thinking about how they have taken away the excitement I used to feel the first time I ever laid eyes on an animal that previously was only known to me by the size of his track. Now it's "oh I know him" and I've already made the decision on whether he's a "shooter" or not. It does seem like something is missing and I've been contemplating eliminating them. "
I couldn't agree more. I have one camera I run on our family farm and I only started doing that two years ago. I know guys that have 15+ cameras on their property. Even though I like to see pics of the bucks on our farm, It takes away from the excitement I used to have when I saw a big buck for the first time. I know many people get just as much enjoyment out of running their cams as they do hunting. I am not one of those people. And with the new cams you don't even have to enter the woods anymore to check them. So cams have become less intrusive just like drones.
TrapperKayak I am sorry I had to and a CNC mill is the tool you are looking to identify lol. I didn't intend to sound like an @ZZ and do see your point and could not agree with your comments more. Even if I have designed broadheads with cad and cut limbs and risers on a robot drill press:)
I think Jaquomo said it best.
"But it is interesting how on all of these threads (cameras, compounds, sighting technology, assist-bikes, rangefinders, lighted nocks, etc..) there are so many who want to draw the line of acceptance on EXACTLY where they are at this place and time in their lives, rather than taking a step back to look at the big picture.
"...draw the line of acceptance on EXACTLY where they are at this place and time in their lives..."
The line I want to draw is at electronic devices used specifically during the hunt, and it should include all - those currently used, and those not yet available. Those who want to bring into the argument, materials, transportation, binoculars, etc. are just trying to deflect the discussion, either through ignorance or actual understanding of the real issue because they can't argue effectively against it. How bad would it be if we took a step back, and put more emphasis on skill and dedication instead of better technology?
As to compounds, they are not a problem by themselves, and if the hunter has the discipline to restrict how they're used. Take away the ELECTRONIC range finder, and long range shots would be pretty ineffective. My first compound back in '83, was not really any more superior to a modern recurve. I shot it with fingers, a rectangular pin guard with no peep, and obviously no range finder, and it shot about 200fps. My current bow has better performance, but I haven't increased my maximum range since the first day of my first hunt. If anything, my average shot distance has decreased over time. It's also often forgotten that when compounds first came out, many recurve shooters were fitting their bows with sights, draw stops, and other 'gadgets' to make them more accurate. If compounds hadn't been developed, what do you thing a modern hunting recurve would look like today? In a very real way, compounds had more to do with "traditional equipment" than any other factor. By the way "traditional" has more to do with attitude and personal values than it does with equipment choice.
Ziek I cannot help but think some of your comments were directed at me. Claiming my statement indicates I don't have the intelligence to "argue" against the "real point" as you stated it to be leads me to believe you have missed mine. I never intended to "argue" my opinion and there is no "issue". This is a discussion (as you stated) with people sharing their thoughts and opinions. I just wanted to spur thought about technology and its use at any level having an impact on success. How you feel about it and your opinion is entirely up to you but your statements regarding mine deflecting the discussion are simply not true. Thanks for the compliments though, have a nice day.
Ziek, I totally agree with all your points. My reference to compounds was relating to how many guys I knew and listened to back in the early '70s who decried those early primitive compounds as the ruination of bowhunting, who, later in life, switched to compounds when they could no longer shoot their recurves for one reason or another. Or discovered that they could be more effective hunters and recoverers of game when hunting with compounds.
I should have added that to me, personally, "traditional" is more about a way of hunting and a hunting/scouting lifestyle than the materials in equipment, the type of transportation used to get to where the hunt starts, etc..
320, No problem, I did not take any issue with what you stated at all. I do think Ziek was directing his 'ignorance' comment more toward me...not you. NP either way, IDC. I fully understand the issue, and it IS a discussion, not an 'argument'. :) In many arenas, I welcome and support advanced technology. Just not in hunting. And to some degree fishing. There I like simplicity and 'old style' hand made tools and weapons - to the best of my ability to obtain or make them that is.
Well 320 bull, you did bring up "Giving up your glass and making an atlatl wearing a loincloth." That has NOTHING to do with the discussion. We are not talking about going back to the stone age, nor even to abandon all technology. We are talking about BOW hunting. What does an atlatl have to do with that? In particular, this post is about a remotely controlled flying machine with a surveillance system. Why would anyone think that is appropriate? Because it's just one more step in accepting electronic technology that we should never have let creep into hunting - any hunting. If you're rifle hunting and you need a range finder before you shoot, are you really hunting, or just shooting?
I just don't understand choosing a hunting style/method that is more difficult and demanding of developing hunting/shooting skills, and then employing everything available to circumvent those skills.
Let me state that first off I don't even use anything that has a battery when I hunt (except for a flashlight) or heaven forbid a microchip (and that includes my dumbphone), as that's one of the things I go into the woods for to get the hell away from.
That said, anyone should be free to use whatever gadget/gizmo they like provided that it doesn't directly effect my hunting or infringe on my privacy. Drones fall into BOTH of those categories. If you want to fly your little spyplane over your property have at it. But when it's over me it'll get treated like someone looking in my window.
Hunting just isn't the same since they invented metal. It use to be that you had to develop some skill. Now you don't even have to know how to properly knap a head. And don't even let me get started on those guys who don't use sinew for bow strings anymore....
Let's see, use your drone to scout, then place your trail cam and get the exact time the game is moving,then get your crossbow, mount it on a tripod and point it at the game trail. Use your e-bike to get to your stand and then use your iPhone to keep busy until it's time to shoot that trophy at 3:45 pm. Sounds like a great way to hunt, oops, sorry it sounds like a great way to go shopping. Give me a break, hunting has a meaning and it is suppose to get you outdoors to enjoy what God gave you. It seems more and more that so called hunters want to spend less time in the outdoors, sad. Just be sure to mention when you take your animal that you did it in record time thanks to all your gadgets. I find burning boot leather is a lot more satisfying when I kill a animal.
I can't see how drones and hunting DON'T go together. It's the ultimate target. You don't know which way it will turn...human controlled, oh man I could go through a quiver pretty quick on one. Worse than a coyote!!
Although I'm on the fence about eliminating game cameras. Selfishly I think it's made a lot of guys worse hunters, and keeps them out of the bush until they have a "target buck coming regular." I honestly think it's made the average hunter dumber, and that ups my odds on the animals.
Don't understand why assist bikes keep getting lumped into this discussion. You guys drive computerized 4WD trucks or ride ATVs to where you start hiking. Some others of us pedal, park, and start climbing the mountain..
As much as I try... I just can't bring myself to care how someone else hunts or scouts. Hadn't given much thought to drones until I read this thread, and now I still don't care. I must be weird or something but I'll keep trying.
You have glassed a nice mule deer buck and you are almost to where you can shoot after a 2 hour stalk. Suddenly a drone comes zooming in over you and the operator sees the buck and sends the drone in for a closer look. He is just wants a picture but he can’t get a good one where he is laying so he swoops in and Spooks the buck so he will get up and he can get a better picture. The buck takes off over the mountain away from you.
Public or private land? Either way I would hate that particular scenario, but on public land I would assume the intrusion to be parallel to someone on an ATV (or even out for a run) that spooked that deer and made a stalk unlikely. That's one of the reasons public can be so hard to hunt... you have to deal with other people who also have the right to be there. On private land I'm assuming the drone would be trespassing and not just the landowner out goofing around. In that case I would be just as furious as if I found someone trespassing with an ATV.
Just to be clear; I am not for the invasion of privacy and I am not for the harassment of wildlife. But I do understand that I'm sharing public land with others and I understand that there are many ways a hunt can be screwed up. The question doesn't pertain to drone use to screw up hunts or unfairly move animals. The question pertains to using a drone for an aerial view to scout. To that end... I really don't care if someone flies their hunting property to look for trails and bedding areas.
“Don't understand why assist bikes keep getting lumped into this discussion. You guys drive computerized 4WD trucks or ride ATVs to where you start hiking. Some others of us pedal, park, and start climbing the mountain..”
FWIW, I agree that an ebike should be treated no different than any other motorized vehicle.
I’d sure like to see Bowhunting return to a simpler state; ALL hunting, really...
1) No electronics of any kind to be used in the scouting, pursuit or taking of game. No rangefinders, trail-cams, drones, or comms for coordinating with other hunters.
2) No moving parts. No triggers, no cams, no drop-away rests, no mechanical broadheads.
3) No artificial concentration of wildlife for the purpose of taking game. No feeders, no food plots.
"...or comms for coordinating with other hunters." Uh, well, I have to draw the line at this one. We used to use 2 way radios back in the '70s/80s and had 'handles', etc. It was fun and brought family members together while hunting. Now we use cell phones, but it is the same concept ( I don't really use them much because I mostly hunt alone). I have it with me to coordinate and stay in touch with my wife while I'm out hunting in case she needs me. You should be able to communicate with each other at least. The rest can be tossed though - except for binoculars. This is my choice, I don't care what you do..but drones to scout during season? Uh, no...
"..no food plots." Hmm, then no hunting corn lots or apple orchards? No bean fields? I see where you are going with this Matt, but I think that is taking it a bit too far. that is how most successful hunters get into animals, where they concentrate for food, etc. I guess if you want the ultimate challenge, you could hunt in an area devoid of food, and any other thing that would attract game, sit in a low tree branch above a game trail with a knapped stone knife in your mouth waiting....naked and unafraid.
Say what you want about drones but the things are pretty amazing. My nephew came to visit us this past weekend. He has a Mavic 2 Pro. He dunked the thing once in the pond, totally submersed it, and then it flew back out shooting straight into the air. Next morning the thing still worked. Also got it stuck in a few trees and after it had trimmed enough small limbs and leaves off it just hovered there 'til he came and flew it out. Heck of a toy!
I know what the regs SAY. I also know the regs are almost universally ignored, either in initially complying with the certification/registration, or in complying with the regs, or both, and enforcement is nonexistent. Just a couple weeks ago we stopped some moron from flying one in a crowded area of Arches NP. That was far from the first time I've stopped them in NPs, and/or over unsuspecting people. I even recently had one fly about 10' over my windshield while cruising down an interstate. They are NOT toys.