Contributors to this thread:
No Mercy's Link
MN Fails the Deer/Moose population-again
Liberal Twin Cities MN House is at it again.....
We have a "healthy and growing wolf population" in MN that could easily sustain a biologically sound hunt plan. Our moose herd in particular (down over 50% over the past 10 years) needs all the help it can get!
I live in west central MN (not northern MN) and get several dozen wolf trail cam pics every fall. My brother saw one chasing 5-6 deer the other day at 11AM.
Jason, thanks for posting this...
It is sad Mark-With the House and Governor you have it's going to get even uglier. The state Senate only has two votes to stop the insanity going on there, so you're teetering on belligerent and all out Connecticut, New York and California-ism.
I am thinking IF it passes, there could be a lot of wolves "mistaken" for coyotes........................................... ;-)
Thanks for posting this Jason. What a complete load of shit! MN is a joke and the way the state gov't is run out of the metro area, it's so damn painfully frustrating. I love the state of MN, but I hate the state's politics.
Plenty of room for you guys over here in the Dakota's Mark and Scott! :-) Jason and I don't mind!
Brotsky- You're not far off with that comment for many people from MN.
And THIS is exactly why there is a flood of NR hunters and fisherman from MN coming to South Dakota. MN is a complete joke,, for everything really. Yes we have nice lakes and it's pretty but the quality really isn't there if you don't have 200 hours of time to fish in a summer,, or 125 hours to hunt for a deer. It's just not here. And yes I'm sure SDGFP has their own issues from a resident perspective but it's nothing compared to the sh it show we have going on here with politics and the DNR.
Personally,, once my dad is done deer hunting I may very well never buy another big game license in MN ever again.
Brotsky, I'm embarrassed to say we moved FROM ND to MN six years ago. I loved ND and miss living there a ton. But... it was a very good move for my family and u don't regret it. That said, the MN government is still an embarrassment beyond words.
I'm going to say something stupid and illogical: It sure would be nice if these legislators from the metropolitan areas had to live with wolves in their back yards and communities for a while so they could understand the impact of an unchecked wolf population and realize they aren't the majestic, serene, fluffy sweethearts they make wolves out to be.
I'm not advocating for "no wolves", but as a life long hunter residing in northern Minnesota that has seen wolf numbers and impact grow seemingly every year, its very frustrating when a group of people with no no experience with wolves, and no stake in the outcome of their decisions, are controlling our "back yards". Funny that the majestic coyote is never mentioned by these legislators as an animal to be protected, but then again, coyotes populate the metro areas.
Sadly, that's the way MN works...
The House passed the Red Flag Gun Laws also.
Brotsky, Love ND and SD! Would save a pile on state income taxes as well.
Our family is here so not going anywhere (by design).
Most of our legislators learn everything they know about the outdoors from Disney and Nat Geo. They should take a hike in my woods so they can see the carnage we have when a pack comes through.
I hear you gentlemen, family commitments keep us where we are when we’d rather live further west as well! To SD Buckbusters point with the influx of folks we are getting in SD now for reasons earlier mentioned out voting has slid a little further left. Liberalism is a cancer, slowly spreading and infecting everything as it grows. :-(
Mark...I've got room for you and Carmen in the Man Cave! ;) C'mon on over...
buckbuster, I’m not sure what part of the state you hunt and fish in. I would try some new spots. I hate mn politics and as far as the Dnr goes ,, I think they are mediocre. I disagree that hunting and fishing suck here, that’s a pretty broad stroke of the brush.
The article calls Tim Walz a "hunter". I think that's using the term very loosely. By his own admission he purchased a shotgun just days before going on his governor's turkey hunt. Real hunters don't do that; they're patterned in, locked and loaded, not showing up opening morning with sale tags hanging off all their new gear. Tim Walz is an opportunist that never misses a beat when it comes to a photo-op. "Hunter", I don't think so..
Brotsky, four more years and I'll be your retired neighbor...so if you could shew all those rattlers out before I get there it would be much appreciated. I hate snakes:)
"buckbuster, I’m not sure what part of the state you hunt and fish in. I would try some new spots. I hate mn politics and as far as the Dnr goes ,, I think they are mediocre. I disagree that hunting and fishing suck here, that’s a pretty broad stroke of the brush. "
With respect to your comment,, and YES it is broad,, it doesn't mean I am wrong.
I know you have hunted in SD before.. There's not a person on the planet that can convince me otherwise that MN is even a fraction of what SD has for deer. I don't care if you own 1000 acres and have foodplots and swamps,,etc. there's no way it even comes close to comparing. I can go out on some SD state land and lay eyes on 75 deer per day along with 3-4 bucks I'd be happy to take home (and that's picking a spot from google earth). A day like that would be the best day of hunting in 30 years for a MN resident.
Regarding fishing: Might be a little more on the same level as fish tend to bite and not bite on any given day and can be more of a challenge to get them to cooperate but still, less people and a better government and a much better management team of our resources equals way more fun for anyone out fishing.
Hunting and fishing is exactly that "fine" here in MN. But when you compare to what other places have this is very average IMHO.
Just my 2cents I guess.
We look forward to having you here South Farm!
I hear you buckbuster, govt and population in SD is MUCH better. No doubt South Dakota has great deer and quality deer too. I mostly credit that to optics and terrain. The deer quality in mn to me is better than most give it credit. Just because I don’t get a big deer each year doesn’t mean there not here. I have a pretty good hunch if I could glass for a mile on a Hill here I would see many deer and quality too. I don’t use cameras much but when I do I am always surprised how many nice bucks are around that go unseen by me. You’re not wrong at all, it’s just my opinion. I would leave mn in a heartbeat to move to sd, but it would have to be western sd for me personally.
I hate to be pessimistic, but I don’t see mn getting any better anytime soon.
Do “they” know how many wolves are killed in Mn each year by Govt paid trappers?
Crock of chit, not letting sportsman help.
Well over 200. Varies by year. Friend of mine is the guy doing it for Dept of Ag. He said they annually eliminate as many or more than we took by hunting and trapping the 3 years we had a season here.
Fyi, while US Fish and Wildlife Service has the "management" responsibility, the Dept of Ag does the control work with the problem wolves.
Norseman is spot on- complete crock! Politics is the sole reason they aren't managed by hunters.
Fellas, if someone told you to jump off a building and you do it, who is to blame?.....
I’m pretty slow. WV I missed the point.
I hunt 35 miles south of the Canadian border and the wolf contact in the field has increased over the last 4 yrs, not uncommon to have them stand 20 yards away a give you the chew look. A shock collar on your hunting dog is highly recommended to keep them close.
The moose calf population has taken a hit from the wolf, counter what the bias DNR say.
Alway said that the wolf pack needs to be drop off in the Twin Cites burbs and see what the pro-wolf crowd would do when their porch poodles start becoming lunch.
There needs to be a balance in the wolf population.
No Mercy's Link
Well said jjs -
We used to get them occasionally on our bear baits...now they hit almost every one. They eat candy and donuts too-then piss all over the baits.
I was really hoping for a season soon. :-(
This one has a target on it.
What a crock of crap, can't stand the politics in this state and also stuck here with family ties, for the time being. I travel out of state every year for whitetail hunting when we should have great hunting right here. Getting tougher and tougher every year to kill a decent buck and a bonus doe here.
Left Mn in 89, moved to Colorado, a great move at the time. We are rapidly approaching you these days. That Wyoming wind looks better every year.........
I can not understand how we got here.
Public schools indoctrination is my opinion how we got here. Now everything is based on feelings instead of facts. I would like to find my “safe space” some where in the middle of Montana.
You guys are missing the bigger picture. If the wolf remains on the endanger species list it doesn't matter what the state does. The main step is to delist the wolf and give management back to the state. So big deal the state makes it illegal to hunt wolves, what will the penalty be? Same as shooting a Ferrell cat? What ever it will be it will be less than the federal fines and penalties. And that will make a big difference as far as how many accidentally get shot.
You can't have high expectations from a state that thinks having gun season open the first weekend of Nov is a good idea.
Rut is right and the majority of people who commented in this thread have been in and around Minnesota for a long time. As you can tell, the sentiment isn't exactly positive.
It is tough living in this state. I love the area and love the state but hate all the bad politics and all the clueless people who vote these sorts of things in to place.
I know a few guys who have "managed" wolves without the state's help...granted they don't display the rug on the back of their couch, but it's happening. Needs to happen more, though. Wolves have gotten so bad around Ely that after five years of our party not seeing a legal deer during gun season we moved...down to Palisade...and I actually think the wolf population is WORSE there! Sometimes you have to make a stand and take matters into your own hands; and I'm gonna be at that point if the state's hands get tied on the management issue. Enough is enough already.
rodb- that's what I was inferring in my post above- exactly!
'Vote out them' at the border... ;) rodb, "Same as shooting a Ferrell cat?" If you shoot Will's cat, you will be in a lot more trouble than if you shoot a wolf... :)
“I can go out on some SD state land and lay eyes on 75 deer per day along with 3-4 bucks I'd be happy to take home (and that's picking a spot from google earth). ”
That’s not Hunting, that’s SHOPPING.
JMO, the real problem is that most human “hunters” won’t stand for deer/Elk/moose population densities that the land can support over the long haul. We talk a good “Partners in Conservation” game, but most of us don’t have the gumption to get out there after it unless the state has stocked the pond to our liking. And these days it appears that stocking your own pond (food plots, feeders, trail cams, drones, mock scrapes, etc) is somehow the mark of a Serious Hunter.
Kind of ironic.
^^Leave it to a guy from CT to tell us we have too many deer so we're "shoppers" not hunters. LMAO!
Mnhunter, "I would leave mn in a heartbeat to move to sd, but it would have to be western sd for me personally"... Question, why would you even bother stopping there and not continuing on to MT, where the variety of terrain and quality of hunting far surpasses what's 'in between'.? That's like the early pioneers - the only reason SD was ever settled was when the prairie schooners broke down and there was no choice...the homestead was built from the leftover lumber. ;) JK, I'd like to visit SD to hunt the illegals/invasives (roosters that is). And maybe an overgrown 'coyote'. Now I should talk, I moved back to the most corrupt liberal state legislature, craphole Albany and that crook Cuomo, in existence. Sure the state has good hunting - just like MN and SD and MT, but its govt. that ruins it for all of us when the Libs take over. And who lets them??? WE DO!! There will be wolves here soon too. I can smell it, like a dog smelling cancer, it is going to metastasize every 'cell' in the nation - already is. We need to mobilize, not sit by and let this bs happen. Why are we letting all these libs govts. succeed? Get off your asses guys. Take one potential hunting day and turn it into 'conservative rally day'. Actually, one-for-one. For every day you hunt, put another 'day of effort' into protecting your rights, however you choose to do that. You got Trump voted in, don't let up now. Get him re-elected. And then work on your states. I get it that the huge population centers make it darn near impossible though - like NYC vs. Upstate NY being the best example.
MNhunter "I would like to find my “safe space” some where in the middle of Montana." Sorry, missed that, now you're talkin'!!!
"It is tough living in this state. I love the area and love the state but hate all the bad politics and all the clueless people who vote these sorts of things in to place."
Just so we're clear, DNR is not against wolf hunting. This is a political deal. Not that the DNR would ever do anything to reduce the population, but they are not against hunting wolves.
Glad you caught that, Brotsky! That is funny, ironic, and idiotic all at once!
Suggesting fishing is better in SD than MN is like saying Hillary Clinton is hotter than Melania Trump. But keep the rumor going that SD is a better place to fish. We are overrun by out of state fishermen.
Minnesota has roughly 5 times the number of whitetails as SD. From 2005 -2010 MN has had 172 B&C whitetails killed and SD has had 24. Yep, it's tougher to hunt them in MN because we have these things called trees that they can hide behind. I guess if you want easy hunting for smaller deer SD is superior to MN.
I do enjoy hunting SD, mostly for pheasants, and agree it's a great place to hunt and fish but BuckBusters posts comparing SD and MN are not supported by facts.
As far as the wolf ban vote, it's disappointing. What really disappoints me is that a number of Republican representatives from rural districts voted for the ban. I just emailed one of them, a guy I've known well for 20 years and asked him WTF he was thinking.
I returned to Minnesota from a family vacation to see this news. Very disappointing but not at all surprising.
Man, I hate seeing politicians playing wildlife managers.
Pig Doc, I've hunted MN now for 28 years and I've seen more P&Y whitetails in other states on public land in a week long hunt than I've seen in MN in all the years I've been hunting there. There is a reason there is an exodus from MN to other states every fall. I'm not saying there aren't nice deer in MN, but for the average hunter, MN is not very good. It could be amazing, possibly the best in the country, but it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime.
+1 12 yards. I won't dispute the stats on MN producing P&Y deer as compared to other states. But numbers lie. If you ranked numbers of bowkilled deer on public land in MN vs other states, the numbers would be pathetic. I lived in southern MN for 20 years. If my only land to hunt was public, I doubt I would be a bowhunter today. (I won't even talk about gun season). Yes the DNR has it's issues, but the political environment is oppressive. The political citiots run all of outstate MN. I doubt the bills sponsor has ever seen a wolf, (Unless it were in a zoo). I have a lifetime MN archery license and I hunt some MN public land intermittently in the fall. But if you asked me about the # and quality of deer I see on MN public vs public land in other states, I have yet to find a state worse than MN.
12 million acres of public land in mn. Lots of nice bucks to be had with some work.
12 and Z are spot on! Given the great genetics, MN could be the cream of the crop. Instead it's just an embarrassing example of what could have been. Definitely some nice bucks around, but it's 1/10 (or less) of what it could be. Terrible mismanagement, plain and simple.
I had a fellow guide tell me that in AK there was a stalemate between tree huggers wanting to save the wolf and guided wanting to conserve moose. He said the solution came in putting a couple tree huggers on the committee and by doing that it opened the communication lines between the two where the wolf lovers were convinced a little management on the wolves would help the moose. THEY LIKE MOOSE TOO. Managing the wolf population saves approximately 12 moose per year for every wolf killed. Once the wolf lovers became a bit more open minded they were able to think in a little more rational manner. I think it was clever and overall a good move to think a bit out of the box. It takes courage to communicate especially if it involves having to listen.
So I got an email back from my acquaintance in the MN House of Representatives. This is a guy I worked with for about 7 years. He's a Republican representative from rural district in Southern MN. I asked him why he voted in favor of the wolf ban and told him why he was wrong. Here's what he emailed me back:
"Hey Chad, I need to go back and review the amendment. I’ve been consistent with my voting, siding with farmers/ranchers, hunters/trappers & others with similar concerns on the wolf issue. If this vote is in conflict then I need to understand why. I take complete ownership and responsibility for every vote I take. I may have made a mistake or misunderstood the intent of the amendment. Thank you for taking the time and calling this to my attention. "
So he casts what ends up being the deciding vote and apparently does not even understand what he voted for. It's bad enough when we have big city liberals against us but then to have a rural Republican that get's it wrong is really pathetic.
City Libs and Arrowhead Libs are to thank. Not to mention the ones who didn't bother reading what they were voting on. Here's a breakdown of the MN house.
Can anyone post a link or copy/paste the wording of this in the amendment? I've been searching online at this bill and cannot find anything regarding wolf hunting.
Here you go. Also a link to the one responsible for sneaking this in. https://www.billtrack50.com/LegislatorDetail/18303
"From 2005 -2010 MN has had 172 B&C whitetails killed and SD has had 24."
While it's true that MN has the potential for a great deer herd, a deer stat from 9 to 14 years ago is kinda outdated.
B&C all time whitetail records shows MN with 1168 and SD with 201. Last 10 years as of 2018 it's MN 293, SD 67. Pick any time frame you want and its not going to look much different. MN is producing 5-6 X the B&C record bucks as SD.
I've hunted all over the upper midwest and have killed more big bucks in IA and MO than MN even though I spend a lot more time hunting in MN. It's a whole lot easier hunting farm country than the big woods of Northern MN. But, hunting truly wild country is a lot more fun IMO than sitting on the edge of a corn field. I also wish than MN would end the gun hunt during the rut but it's not going to happen. Gun hunters have a much stronger voice than bow hunters.
Pig Doc X2, been there. A friend shot a truly big Northwoods buck last fall, the tines where black from the rubbing the balsam, not a ag field for miles, amazing how it lived with the wolf pack and hard winters. Many would say it would be an average Ia. buck but it was an outstanding one where it came from.
The comparison of interest for me is not between Minnesota and South Dakota, it's between what Minnesota is and what it could be. The potential is absolutely incredible but what our dnr/current regs manage us to is not even remotely close to the potential.
Also, I assume the MN vs SD numbers are terribly skewed by whitetail hunter numbers, making number of bucks in any category misleading. I could be wrong on that as I don't have the numbers.
I live and hunt in western SD. 100% public land. I commonly have 80 to 100 deer days but it aint shopping. They may be 2 or 3 miles away and by the time you get there they are in the trees in a canyon and you are done. So it can be like going to the store with no money. It's still hunting. The numbers thing amounts to more people equals more numbers. But please stay in MN. I have to work around pig farmers from there every year that bring there ice shanty out and 8 guys shoot everything they see and then want to borrow your cart and gas. Stay there.
Funny, but I was going to say if you want to leave MN don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Now that's some real SD hospitality there Wayne. Fortunately there are some nice people in SD too. I've worked and hunted there for years and have met some great people. I've never taken an ice shanty or borrowed someone's cart and gas but you really have to watch those shifty pig farmers.
This thread is about wolf laws in MN. Why do you SD guys have to turn it into a pissing match?
Thank you for the link Butternut!
How can you let an open door "hit you in the ass"? So many welfarites moving here to skim the cream you can't even get the damn door closed in the first place..