Contributors to this thread:
New rest and cables/strings on my Bowtech Invasion. Also slightly new arrow setup. Went from 29 inch CE Maxima hunter 250s with 3 fletch Blazers to 28.5 inch (same shaft) with AAE Pro max on a 90 degree 4- fletch.
Initial setup had me tearing left (9 o'clock) with both bare shaft and fletched arrow (and pretty significantly). As cam lean was adjusted, the tear lessened with both but turned counter-clockwise. I got the bare shaft to a perfect bullet hole, but the fletched shaft is now tearing just a tad towards 7 o'clock.
What's my next step? Usually I adjust my rest from here, I just want to get you guy's opinions before I start messing with it more.
If I adjust my rest and get BHs and FPs hitting in the same spot I suppose it doesn't matter? Should I keep checking the bare shaft through paper or just move on? Am I to the point where I can just adjust my rest and get the fletched arrow shooting properly through paper or what would you guys do?
Thanks in advance,
if the bare shaft is clean, you may have contact with the fletched, and just a tad of torque/grip error can show up, but more so in bare shaft ...... I dont do paper, but I just did bare shafts into a clean flat foam target set at chest height and compared angle and impact points to my fletched arrow, made some slight rest adjustments, all is good now .... the goal is always FP's/BH's same POI ...... you need to shoot the bare shafts at distance and compare to your FP's/fletched (I start at 10 yds, then go to 20) ... use a flat foam target that clean, not shot up and set level to chest height..... see where the bare shafts impact in relation to the fletched, angle that the bare shafts enter the target also
Drop away rest? QAD or Ripcord style rest possibly?
Yeah, QAD. I currently have the fletching at 12, 3, 6, and 9. Was thinking of turning it to 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30, but I figure that'd be even worse.
I also figured that if I had fletching contact with the rest, that I'd be tearing up, not down.
I'm not that far off - my tear is now less than an inch. I'm thinking my next step is to raise my rest a tad. What do you think?
if your just a tad low left(tear), move rest up a very very small amount ........ all paper is is a starting point ... personally, I dont like it nor do paper ..... if you can get bare shafts and fletched hitting together and both going in straight, your BH's should be right there or very darn close... a small rest tweek is all it usually takes from there .... Bare Shafts and BH's use the same adjustments, move rest to BH for L/R misses, same for bare shaft, move to impact point/where the tip of the shaft hits...
Ike imo from what I do and most I shoot with do, four fletch should have fletches as “x” not “+” coming off the string. That will give you better vane clearance.
I'm with JTV on this one (miracles do happen...;-)). I never had much use for paper tuning. I can always eye-ball the initial tune close enough to skip the paper. Then I go straight to bare shaft tuning at 10, 20, and 30 yards.
If you can get the bare shaft to group with the fletched field tips at 30, virtually any broadhead of similar weight will stack right in there too.
Shooting form is as critical to tuning as bow adjustments, IMO.
GG, I'm going out to get a lotto ticket ;0) ........ Bare shaft and BH react the same, so whatever your bare shafts are doing, your BH's will do the same ... same adjustments for both as I stated above ..
That wasn't my experience JT, I had my bh hammering at 40yds with my fps and decided to try bare shaft.. WOW.. needless to say I'm starting over, but I will add I do think my nocking point is not in the sweet spot. By the time I got my BS to fly like a dart my rest was obviously whack, vertically and horizontally. Its a prime, and from what I've read they definitely have a high sweet spot nocking point.
You can force field-tipped and broadhead-tipped arrows to group together at 40, but they *may* still have the same erratic flight characteristics. When a bare-shaft groups the same as either one of those at 30-plus, then you know your bow is tuned.
Instead of moving the arrow rest, change tip weight. Changing tip weight stiffness or weakens the spine. If you want to stay with the grain tops you're using, change insert weight.
One thing that must be mentioned, shooting bare shafts is critical on form and esp. your grip ....I shoot multiple times with fletched and bare shafts, just because being human, I will have some form flaws shot to shot.... I'll shoot a string of bare shafts and from that string of shots I'll get the idea what is happening keeping track on what each shot is doing ... if I'm getting good entry and positioning 6/7 out of 10 shots, the other 3-4 are 'prolly my fault ... just dont shoot a couple and start making changes ...
Tip weight change isn’t much of an option. Axis 340 125gr 27.5” 65-68lbs. Every bare shaft shot tail high about 1-2 o’clock, and impacted low left of fletched. Srry to highjack.
move rest away from tip entry for high/low misses.... move rest to tip/impact for L/R misses when using bare shaft .. very very very small increments .... sometime 1/16 - 1/32" is all it takes ..
I did exactly that and I got it to shoot, but my rest was aimed at the stars and pointed so far left the neighbors were scared. That’s why I’m going to move my loop a little higher, I’ve read this prime rize likes the top of the hole. Right now I’m cutting it in half with lower part of shaft. I’ll see if that makes it more manageable.
Ok, so I turned my fletchings from + to x.
My BHs were hitting right of FPs if I remember correctly so I moved my rest incrementally right and it helped, but I went all the way and FPs and BHs never got together.
I went back to zero and started moving it left and BHs and FPs are now hitting together, but hitting impacting the target at different ranges and I think (need to shoot a bit more) that the farther I get from the target, my BHs are hitting farther and farther to the right.
Bows with static yokes, I don't move the rest laterally. I would keep the arrow level, centershot, and centered on the berger hole.
Suggest making changes to the yolk to move the broadheads in the direction of the fields points.
For example, broadheads hit right of the field points, add twist to the left yokes or remove from the right.
Ok. I'll put the rest back and try that. Thanks.
I bet it's slight contact. I've done it numerous times with QADs. You have them shooting bullet holes and then you change strings. Tie in the the activation cord on the new strings and you set it up to where the timing is slightly off.
If you have a draw board k would time the rest to come up with about .75" of draw left.
*Edit-. I see it is a new rest too.
What rest were you using before?
Same rest Mark, just a new one.
But anyways, I put it back to centershot and adjusted the yolks like Russell said and FPs and unvented BHs are now impacting identically out to 45 yards.
Thanks so much everyone. Thanks Russell.
I'm glad you got it figured out. The bare shaft shooting well and fletched not is what made me think contact.
Good job at tuning. Happy to help.
Here's the PM I sent Ike a week or so ago.
Here's some pointers I'd like to offer:
Make sure your QAD cord is tied in between 4.5 - 5" below the rest. (per OEM voice tech spt guidance).
Use a Spott Hogg Laser tool to initially set your cam lean. Bowtech has pictures where the bench setup for each model bow. This really helped me. Also, Bowtech has some fairly new Youtube instructional videos (Dogg).
My basic set-up tuning consists of: 1) Verify string and cables are correct length. 2) Rough set timing. Cables close I can get to between the two dots. 3) Rough set cam lean. Use laser alignment tool. 4) Fine tune cam timing so stops hit the same. (ok I have been informed to have top cam touch stop 1/16-1/32" prior to bottom stop).
Adjust rest so arrow is centered on burger hole, level, and center shot centered.
Tie-in nock sets (top and bottom the same number of knots), then add D-loop.
Make sure you don't have nock pinch (nocks not too tight). Nocks hold the arrow when bow is held with arrow vertical, but arrow doesn't hold the bow. (trad setup, ref Byron Nelson)
I currently don't papertune. Just shoot field points at 20 yds and adjust sights. Then BH tune for same impact. Move out in 10 yard increments to max distance you are accurate.
Index each arrow with the stiffest side all facing up when building my arrows.
Hope this helps a bit.