What is SAFER in Grizzly Country?
Bears
Sleeping at a sturdy TRUCK camp requires you to walk 2-3 miles through grizzly country every morning and evening. Spiking out means you sleep in a flimsy one man tent with your food nearby. You will sleep much better at your truck, but you aren't walking as much and have less potential of "startling" a bear with a spike camp.
What would you do?
Spike camp, and store your food suspended in a tree. If you hunt all day you should sleep fine.
Nick has more experience with this than any of us.
Nick, you out there?
Mark
Realistically it's probably six of one, half dozen of the other as you could stumble on a bear 100 yards from your spike camp too. Carrying a gun and spray and being practiced in their use while being aware of your surroundings is probably the best bet along with keeping a clean camp no matter which you choose.
Spike out and use ear plugs so you aren't waking up all night with the slightest noises.
I would think walking the 2-3 miles during those times will put you at greater exposure of an encounter. The surprise encounters are the ones that will get you.
"You will sleep much better at your truck"... I'm not willing to accept that on face value so, imo, the question may not present such a disparity in sleep quality. But, assuming that variable true, I'd still rather spike camp just to forego the daily bookend miles navigating in the dark.
I can't imagine wearing ear plugs in that situation.
I sleep fine in my backpack tent and hunt more effectively. With meat around I become a whole lot more cautious. Good luck.
2-3 miles there and back every morning/evening OR stay in a tent in the area you plan to hunt? I'd certainly be opting for the latter. If you are worried, just hang your food away from your tent, don't eat in your tent, etc. Or, do neither and just sleep with a handgun nearby. I think after a few days of an extra 2-3 miles hiking in and out you'll be wishing you were just staying on the mountain each night.
To answer your question about what is safer, staying on the mountain is likely much safer than wandering around in the dark for 2-3 miles twice a day in grizzly country.
Nice thing about having food close to the tent is it should be the first place hit, and you should hear it allowing you to "deal" with the situation.
You've got a greater chance of poking your eye out by walking 4-6 miles in the dark every day....versus having even so much as a bear woof your camp at night.
I keep 100% of my food in the tent. Same with food-related trash. I cook and eat in my tent. Keep the sidearm where you'll find it instinctively in the dark.
Good thoughts and info guys. My food shouldn't be a huge problem as it's light and doesn't smell much (Mt House, TrailMix, Tuna Packets, Ramen, Honey Stinger), but will still probably put it up high and a ways away, especially the garbage.
Nick, agreed on the additional 4-6 miles a day being a drag.
I don't usually hunt in Grizzly country... but when i do, I hire a Sasquatch as a guide... hunt safe my friends.
Food is in grey tote. Stove on top. Big bore rifle laying close by.
I've done both. Let me tell you, the more uncomfortable thing to do is to walk through grizz country in the dark. I don't know if one is specifically safer than the other, but will feel less safe walking around in Grizz country in the dark...
Very strange. That picture above is not mine. I posted one of my AK camp site
UMMM Tuna Packs? You just called every Bear within 5 miles! JMO, but, No Tuna! If it touches your hand, you smell like tuna!
I don't really worry very much over bears, brown or black. Be smart with camp smells, and sleep well!
I always carry a heavy hitting sidearm, but I worry way more about the two legged critters than the four legged ones!
A sow with cubs is completely different, unless you are talking about a kill sight!!
99.9% of bears want nothing to do with you, especially in the wilderness, unless you are messy, sloppy, smelly and don't pay attention to what you are doing!
Crap far from your tent!!!
I would pack in, store my food and trash very far from camp and have a great time!
God Bless!
Ron I thought that I was only one to sleep with earplugs in in grizzly country! If I don’t, the slightest noise I spring awake and get zero sleep.
If you sleep better in the truck, sleep in the truck. What's 2-3 miles to walk - nothing. Better to get a good nights sleep.
I don't worry so much about black or brown bears. Grizzlies however are a different critter.
We used electric fence and had a little more peace of mind
It's true. The electric fence does give you more peace of mind - when you're out hunting too.
I go as far as putting my food and opened packets of rations in an odor proof bag,then into the hanging bag. Keeps stuff dry as well if it pours out. Clean camp for me, fence, and NO earplugs! Love to hear the wolves, elk and others at night.
Never had trouble with bears when camping or hunting, but then again I usually have a license and black bears will leave the country when they know I’m after them!
Griz are a bit different though.
Planning a hunt in Wyoming this fall in grizzly country. Got a battery powered electric fence for around the camp, a .44 Magnum, and will have bear spray. Might have to pick up a short heavy caliber lever gun for camp or even for packing.
Treeline,
You may also want to consider a high capacity 12 Gauge, semi auto or pump shotgun for camp and packing. The one in the link would be my choice, and it looks really cool! Loaded with 00 buck and slug every other round would be some serious firepower!!
Unless you just want a lever gun:)
A grizzly is a brown bear...
I always thought an AK brown bear and an interior grizzley were two different beasts. A grizzley from the interior of AK, the Rockies in CA and Lower 48 is not the same as a 'brown bear' from AK IMO, esp. a coastal brownie, and esp. one from Kodiak and Afognak. But what do I know, I'm just an old school fish and wildlife bio. into a probably different classification mode than most people nowdays.
Kinda futuristic looking, Scar! But interesting and definitely not without merit! I have always been pretty handy with a rifle and haven’t had much use for pistols or shotguns but for close in work (would expect less than 20’ in a bear scenario) that shotgun would certainly provide significant external braking influence.
"A grizzly is a brown bear..."
But an interior grizzly has a whole different attitude than coastal bears. Grizzlies jealously guard their territory and food supply. I believe lower 48 grizzlies are even crankier than BC interior grizzlies due to generational conditioning.
My Udap electric bear fence weighs four pounds with batteries. I've never back packed it but always have it at main camp for around the tent, food and meat pole. They work.
For meat retrieval, if I carry anything, it's a twelve inch barreled 12 gauge with six hard cast slugs, Brenekes if you can find them. Forget that alternating stuff. A pump gun is easier and faster for most people to cycle and stay on target. And at the ranges you should be shooting, 100 yard accuracy doesn't matter. The shotgun kinda naturally cradles across your body when carrying a pack, ready for fast action. Whereas a handgun is more likely to be holstered. But I do wish I was allowed to pack a Glock 10mm!! I have slammed a few black bears with slugs.
Interior Grizzly and brown bear incl. Kodiak, are considered 'subspecies' of the same bear. I'd go with the shotgun myself...but where I am from, a shotgun with a 12 inch barrel is considered a sawed off shotgun. Anything shorter than an 18" barrel on one is not legal here. The electric fence idea sounds intriguing but carrying that battery may not be fun, in a backpack anyway. How much do they weigh?
Currently thinking of this electric fence. $270 and 3.7 lbs. https://www.udap.com/mm5/product/BEF
Trapper, same one as in the link above. 3.7 pounds with the two D-cell batteries to power it. Also get a tester so you don't have to wonder if it's working. You only get to test it once per buddy by casually asking "wonder if that thing is on?".
Can’t tell by the pic, but mine is the UDap. Probably ten years old now, so packing may have changed.
Interesting the difference in the perception and treatment of browns and grizzly's. On Kodiak this spring, my guide cooked everything in his tent and kept all food right next to the tents. He did this for an entire month and not one bear sighting around camp.
Haven't been around Grizzly's much, but it seems they are a totally different animal and then add in the areas where they aren't hunted and they are worse.
Yep, UDAP. Will have to remember to get the tester as well.
The tester you can by at any farm supply too.
2x on the electric fence. It is a little unnerving hearing a zap in the middle of the night though....
My experience is that the majority of hunters are not comfortable on their own in the wilderness. If you are uncomfortable with sleeping in a tent in bear country then don't. Being close to where where you hunt is much better then walking back to the truck each day, but not if you can't get a good nights sleep in a tent.
I like the idea if you hunt hard all day sleeping in a tent won't be as difficult as one may think.
Grizzly bears are born hungry and die hungry... the same cannot be said about Brown Bears of costal Alaska and I've found them to be much less of a nuisance than an ornery interior grizzly bear.
UDAP bear fence works well, have used it quite a bit and while we've had bears make contact with it, nothing has been ruined in our camps. If it'll work for 15 days on Karluk Lake in the fall, just 30 feet from the bear trail on shore, with food and deer meat in camp, it'll work anywhere (until it doesn't).
Not to get in anyone's head; but it's best to understand a portable electric fence is not bear-proof, and it's only a helpful tool to dissuade a bear. Don't go bed thinking you're safe behind the voltage supplied by a couple D cells. Helpful...hopefully yes.
Personally I think nothing beats the smell of humans, as basically all bears (in the wild) are hard-wired to avoid it. To that end I collect 100% of my urine (while in camp) in a bottle and then disperse it around the perimeter of camp. Fling it into bushes, onto trees and anywhere it looks like a bear might approach from. If a bear of any kind comes into the area, this is your best first line of defense. After that is the fence....the tent...and then the sidearm.
I'd be more worried about the bush plane ride back into the wilderness. Last time I took one, the pilot pointed out 5 crashes in various sports along the way. On the way back out, we dropped 100 feet in freefall with a very abrupt halt from it, and if I hadn't been strapped in, I would have been part of the ceiling of the fuselage. The wings bounced like a couple of bow limbs shot when a string broke, and the pilot yelled back (from the Otter cockpit), Ya all still with me? Barely. Bears, I'd wager, will pose a threat mainly when sows with cubs feel threatened. Usually some surprise approach or sighting. I am thinking a night in a tent, are low threat situations, where no young are threatened, or no food supply is encountered with a bear feeding on it, or no surprise encounter is made. I have been in a wall tent up into Specimen creek in the outfitters camp with the griz right outside, and it made no attempt to enter. It did however, chase all the mules out of camp. Fresh griz tracks in the snow all around the tents and in the corral, but it did not try to get in the mess tent either. I would risk sleeping in the tent, with the proper precautions made. Hiking back to truck each night, I'd be more apt to sleep in and miss the best part of the morning hunt.
I'd be more worried about the bush plane ride back into the wilderness. Last time I took one, the pilot pointed out 5 crashes in various sports along the way. On the way back out, we dropped 100 feet in freefall with a very abrupt halt from it, and if I hadn't been strapped in, I would have been part of the ceiling of the fuselage. The wings bounced like a couple of bow limbs shot when a string broke, and the pilot yelled back (from the Otter cockpit), Ya all still with me? Barely. Bears, I'd wager, will pose a threat mainly when sows with cubs feel threatened. Usually some surprise approach or sighting. I am thinking a night in a tent, are low threat situations, where no young are threatened, or no food supply is encountered with a bear feeding on it, or no surprise encounter is made. I have been in a wall tent up into Specimen creek in the outfitters camp with the griz right outside, and it made no attempt to enter. It did however, chase all the mules out of camp. Fresh griz tracks in the snow all around the tents and in the corral, but it did not try to get in the mess tent either. I would risk sleeping in the tent, with the proper precautions made. Hiking back to truck each night, I'd be more apt to sleep in and miss the best part of the morning hunt.
Not sure why that happened - sorry.
Twice grizzlies have sniffed the small tent I was sleeping in, both times were in the Brooks Range in N Alaska. So far never had it happen in BC, NWT or Nunavut despite a lot more nights camped out here in Canada. You do feel small and vulnerable when it happens despite a 12 ga pump or .44 magnum up in the Brooks.
In 1988 I had a camp in the Bob Marshall Wilderness and just before dark I saw a Sow Grizzly and sub adult cub cross to my side of the creek 100 yards upstream. It wasn't a welcome sight after riding 24 miles and dropping the camp off the horses. All went OK until an hour after dark and the horses started freaking out. One broke his rope and ran off into the darkness. Later we heard bears fighting less than 50 yards from camp. (LOUDLY!!!) I can tell you we did NOT sleep that night and luckily could see our escaped horse on the hill above camp the next morning. We packed up and scooted to another spot a few miles further away. As it turned out we had camped within about 100 yards of a dead horse. (Belonged to an outfitter) It was awesome to hear a bear fight, but you "AIN"T gonna sleep through it.
Absolutely agree with Kevin, the fence is just one more measure to possibly keep them out.
I fried bacon and steak everyday on Kodiak in the vestibule of my tent. We never had a bear within a mile of us. They were all down on the salmon streams and we were above 1500 ft. You always have to take into consideration local conditions/bears/timing.
On Kodiak at elevation and the Brooks in sheep country, I don't even worry about it all. In elk country in Wyoming, I think you need to take every precaution possible.
The tester you can by at any farm supply too.
Or just give your hunting partner a little shove and ask him if it works.
Brown bears of Kodiak and grizzly bears of Wyoming and I'd suspect, interior Alaska, have very different attitudes. Brown bears have a rather abundant food supply, where the grizzlies have to scrap for it.
I'd much rather sleep in grizzly country than walk several miles through it in the dark. And yes, I am a very light sleeper so I do use ear plugs. Sometimes, there is no choice and I walk those dark miles. It's bad enough stumbling on a sow with cubs or a bear guarding a carcass during daylight hours, never mind in the dark. Sometimes it's just the chance you take.
In a recent conversation with a warden in northwest Wyoming, he agreed with my guess that 50% of grizzlies are "good", where they will leave at the sight or smell of humans. They may not leave quickly but they leave. 25% are ambivalent. They do not care whatsoever and hold their ground, making you detour. The last 25% are just assholes and are aggressive. Many of these bears are juveniles recently kicked off from mom or forced into new habitat.
Ron, That is an interesting breakdown of grizzly attitudes. A former Conservation Officer up here in BC indicated the stats for local black bears were about 95% "good" and the other 5% were aggressive, predatory and wanted to kill you. And he said size did not make a difference with this breakdown. Kurt
Stay in your hunting area, surround your camp at night with electric fence.
Ron....great. I won't be too terribly far from NW Wyoming.
John, just watch out for those 25% and you'll be fine:) lol
LOL......got it. Can you go paint a big orange X on those 25%er's?!
Ron, That sounds more like the description of humans. My wife has cousins in Kodiak and we visited for 11 days once. They are church-goers and a couple of guys and their sons who go to their church went elk hunting on Afognak. The two younger men were walking along the shoreline when they encountered two brown bear cubs at close range. The cubs spooked and suddenly there was the sow, running full tilt toward them. One of the older men behind the boys emptied his rifle into the big sow and it literally dropped at their feet. They were unhurt but had it not been for the rifle toting father, they probably would be dead. As it was, both cubs ended up dead too, not having the mother. Not sure what transpired there. But bear encounters more often end up worse for the bear than for the people.
One more tool for you to consider, fifth ops, they have pepper spray shells too Looks like a good perimeter alarm.
Depredation kills were actually way up on Kodiak during a recent year due to an off-year when the Sockeye didn't run in large numbers which caused the bears to get more aggressive towards deer hunters. Something like 20 bears were killed in self-defense in just one year. That's a lot of bears for an island that size. Who knows how many of them needed to die, but that's how many died.
But it just goes to show, local circumstances are huge. If the bears are eating salmon, you just need to not get in between the bear and her cubs or her fish.
In BC we've had way more close calls with black bears than Grizzly. One of my guides was mauled terribly by a black bear at night (predatory black bear, 360 pounds). I find the best deterrant is a dog. Bears hate dogs, and avoid camp when they smell them. If a Grizz or black wants to do damage there is no way you will likely stop it (at night). But a dog will smell/hear it WAY before you have a clue its there. My lab has a pack and goes everywhere I do...and I sleep well at night with him there. Nothing better than a trained dog in the field, but an untrained one would suck!
My lab I had and I encountered a big boar blackie near Jardine once. It stood up at 30 yds instead of running. Dog saw it and bolted after it. I screamed "NO" but he kept going, and the bear took off. I thought we were both going to be dead if he brought the bear back with him, but he came back alone after a couple minutes and no bear was seen again. That bear was not afraid at first though. I did have other 'backup' ready at the time too.
"But a dog will smell/hear it WAY before you have a clue its there. My lab has a pack and goes everywhere I do...and I sleep well at night with him there. "
-I don't know how you sleep with a dog in camp, primitive. I've tried it before and my dog growled at every cricket, twig snap and mouse fart he heard. It would have been more peaceful to have Freddy Krueger in the tent.
We had "something" grab a couple game bags of my buddy's Stone sheep meat set 30 yards from the tent last August, unfortunately 4 hrs away from the trailhead after we'd packed it for 2-days. Happened on a windy night and his Pudlepointer slept through it....dead tired from a long day with a pack on and having to point the ptarmigan and ground squirrels along the way. I heard the critter but wasn't about to go out of the pack tent with my can of bear spray in 20 mph winds and try to chase it off. Ultimately we believe it was a wolverine but never confirmed the culprit.
I think I'd rather mess with a bear than a wolverine.
