Contributors to this thread:
Picture Pages with Bowfreak
Time to get your crayons and your pencils....
1)When comparing the pics Deer 1 and Deer 2, which picture has the largest red area?
2)You shoot and your arrow hits the large red area on Deer 2 (I hope you didn't read ahead, this is a hint for question 1). if you had the ability to pick your broadhead after the shot, what style head would you use? Mechanical or fixed?
I'll go first.
You obviously didn't read ahead.
If I knew PRIOR to my shot that my arrow was going to strike the large red area I would do what any ethical hunter would do..........don't shoot
Another disgruntled fixed head shooter.
um if you know your going to shoot em in the guts maybe you should go back to shooting at foam for awhile???
Fixed the post for you guys.....now you should have any ethical problems answering.
If I knew before the shot that I was going to hit deer #2 in the red area- I simply would not shoot.
I'm fresh out of crayons here
I feel like this thread has a back story I haven’t read yet but yea I agree in the situation stated a mechanical COULD help in recovering the deer either head it’s a dead deer but with a big cut it could MAYBE be easier to find it. Devils advocate for fun I’d use a big cut fixed tree shark or gk xxl
Deer 2 and a Mech head.
Come on guys just answer the questions!!!
a Wicked Trick .. 1 1/4" x 1 1/8" ... cuts one hell of a big hole ... for a total cut of of 2 5/16" ...
Very strange question imo. Hope you dont aim for the guts. I shoot fixed so that's what it would be.
The point is obvious and legitimate. The guts are a much larger area than the shoulder blade. Many guys that choose fixed blade heads do so for bone hits, but there is much greater surface area (on marginal hits) in the guts than the shoulder blade, which is where a big cutting mechanical is the best option. Those diagrams show how small the shoulder blade is compared to the guts, and how much more likely a person is to hit guts than shoulder blade in a less than ideal situation. Nobody is saying that you should intentionally aim for the guts. No one with half a brain that has been hunting for any length of time is going to do that. The point is that the guts are a much broader area than the shoulder blade, with a larger chance of hitting on an “oops” shot, so why not choose a head that works better in that situation than one that works better for a shoulder blade, a much smaller target. It’s a good point, and one I have always wondered myself. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter, as we are each going to shoot what we want, but this is a good foundation for choosing a wide cutting mechanical.
Let’s face odds of recovery of a gut shot deer are higher than hitting heavy bone forward if the vitals. All things equal answer is obvious, but since they are not... what if you get 2 holes with a 1.25” fixed vs one hole 1.5” mechanical from a tree stand?
Yes I would much rather hit a deer in the red on Deer 2,did I play right? :)
That said,I’ve shot one deer with a mechanical (NAP 2” cut ) and unfortunately center punched the gut of a small doe.
Snuck out of area while I watched it stand for minutes until I lost my ability to see her.Never recovered so thus never have realized the proposed advantage of a mechanical head.For me and my house we shoot fixed because we are sholderphobes.
Like Genesis, there are going to be many instances where people lose deer shot in the guts with a mechanical head. Just like there are many instances where deer are lost by being shot in the shoulder with a fixed blade head.
Both styles are extremely effective and it comes down to personal choice. I now lean on the mechanical because I feel it gives the biggest room for error.
The 1995 narrative that mechanicals suck and people only use them because they can't tune their bow is just not true. Many people choose a mechanical in certain situations because they feel it's the best tool for that specific job.
I'm a recent convert to mechs on deer. I know how to tune a bow and my fixed fly same POI as FP's. I'm addicted to seeing that big splash of red at the shot, red carpet blood trails, and deer falling in sight.
Other advantages as well but to Bowfreak's point, I'd rather have the big hole of a mech through the guts than the typical FB.
Deer #2= Rage 2 blade. The big one. I would watch that deer bed...
Good point Ohio, but, i feel 100% confident im getting a pass thru, at the VERY LEAST, i an getting 2 holes with my mechanical. Now, i pretty much only hunt public land, so that aiming back thing aint gonna work. I cringe at the thought of an accidental gut shot, but stuff happens in a hunting situation, thats for sure. But im certainly not aiming guts or liver because i shoot a mech
You're actually looking at this the complete wrong way. If you hit the red on deer #2 with any broadhead mechanical or fixed, the likelihood it dies is high (you might just have a longer track job). If you hit deer #1 in the red with a mechanical, you're not recovering or even killing that deer. Only wounding it. So in reality the type of broadhead that gives you the best chance of recovery no matter where the shot placement is would be a FIXED.
The 2019 narrative that mechanicals will kill anything you hit them with is probably more false than the 1995 narrative. Personally, I believe that modern mechanicals should likely not get the reputation they do from the opposing side, although I don't have any personal experience with them for about 2 decades. How many deer have been shot with mechanicals that didn't know they were hit?
Good grief more argument about BH if you want to make marginal shots use mechanical BH if you want to make ethical shots use fixed BH plain and simple. Ha
Its nice to know that fixed blades take mistakes outta the equation. Im gonna switch for sure now. Gonna be nice to 12 ring every deer i ever shoot at again...ha
I believe the answer he is looking for is a expandable, but I would rather shoot the fixed blade cause I would get two holes and better penetration. Watch hundreds of Youtube videos, when the hit the deer back they rarely get two holes. I would shoot my heavy arrow with my 175 grain VPA regardless of the shot placement. By the way I lean towards being a shoulder shooter, I err towards shoulder more than guts! Shawn
Both have red where I don't want to hit. Any deer hit in the red in #2, whether with fixed or mechanical, is going to die. Just because it's a smaller diameter fixed head does NOT in any way mean that it's going to travel farther before bedding down. Just too many variables to the whole situation, how far from a 'safe' bedding area trumps ANY size hole. It is going to that bedding spot, no matter the size hole, and I'm backing out. Therefore to me, #2 is dependent on location, #1 is dependent on actually getting the broadhead through the bone. The fixed head is much better there. Fixed wins for me.
I agree. By area, you are more likely to hit non vital organs than bone - it's just way more space and if you pull it, that's just more likely.
It circles round and round though. Hit where you should be aiming with mech or fixed and you have a dead deer. Screw up and hit the shoulder joint and it's a lucky shot or super sturdy COC that makes it through... Hit the blade and you may or may not regardless of head depending on where in the blade and how the animal is situated. Hit the paunch with any head and your are killing the deer, may never find it though.
I shoot a ton of KE, so I take my chances that I wont hit the shoulder and have been very happy with mech heads and the fixed heads I've used over the years - especially slick trick mags. Those things make some dang nice holes and fly great. I just like the concept of a large hole, and have had good luck with mech's since revisiting them in the late 00's.
If this was 1989 and we were talking about pucketts blood trailers or something, I'd be inclined to say mech's stink. Today though... For deer... there are many many many great broad heads of both type. It just comes down to using what you have confidence in for you.
(For example, with my 91ft lbs of KE, I'm happy to shoot my big mechs... but with my wife shooting a 50# draw and only 24" DL, COC fixies are great, and I wouldnt have her shoot a mech, doesnt make much sense to with that set up. There are multiple good options today.)
I don't like either shot but i think i'd almost go with shooting deer 1 with a fixed blade. If you hit him toward front edge of the front shoulder, right at the base of the neck, you may just drop him. I shot a nice buck one time at the very base of his neck and he dropped in his tracks. Guts plug exit wounds. If you were to choose deer two, you have a better chance of breaking that rib with a fixed blade.
"The 2019 narrative that mechanicals will kill anything you hit them with is probably more false than the 1995 narrative."
I've never seen that narrative on Bowsite. What I have seen is that many guys say mechanical are great choices in certain situations. The majority would probably say that they aren't the best option for elk. Some will tell you they are just fine for elk with the proper setup.
"You're actually looking at this the complete wrong way. If you hit the red on deer #2 with any broadhead mechanical or fixed, the likelihood it dies is high (you might just have a longer track job). If you hit deer #1 in the red with a mechanical, you're not recovering or even killing that deer. Only wounding it. So in reality the type of broadhead that gives you the best chance of recovery no matter where the shot placement is would be a FIXED."
The correct answer to a silly question, IMO. ^^^^^
There you go, Bowfreak, I took the bait.
I read ahead.Mechnicals fall apart.
^^^lol..... being a mech guy even I get a kick out of that!
I would agree that with many set ups you’re not getting a pass-through with a mechanical. Trouble is most guys are shooting low poundage with light arrows. I can truly say it is an exceptionally rare thing for me to not get a pass-through with my mechanical and if I don’t it’s only because I hit something like a spine. I’ve had excellent penetration with my set up, but I shoot high poundage and very heavy arrows so I’m not too concerned about what’s on the front of my arrow penetration wise. I think if most guys would switch to a little heavier arrow set up they would be getting better penetration.
Granted, the deer I shoot are acorn-fed hills deer, and not very big-bodied. . . . but I've never really gotten the shoulder phobia too much, although I can say I've never dead centered a big bodied buck on a shoulder bone. I've punched holes through the shoulder blades of mature bucks, and I've center punch the shoulder bone on a doe (shattered it, and still got a pass through).
I too know how to tune a bow to make fixed blades fly great. And I too still choose to shoot mechanicals at deer, and even elk.
I have NEVER failed to pass through a deer with a mechanical. Come to think of it, I have NEVER failed to pass through a deer with any broadhead. . . I haven't killed that many, 50 or so, but I can't think of a single non-pass through shot on a deer. I'll have to check my log for that. . . .
I have killed 4 bull elk. 2 with fixed, 2 with mechs. The only non-passthrough was with a mech, but I center punch the off side shoulder. . . .dead elk.
While I think fixed heads definitely penetrate better. I have no problem with a quality mech either. I used to think a quality fixed blade was the end-all be-all. But then a certain bowsiter was slaying stuff left and right with a head that I would denigrate as a "big marketing department for newbie hunters." And I will admit that I was wrong. A good mech definitely has a place in a quiver. And I'm shooting them now. Fairly successfully
Agreed. I've pounded more than one Rage 2 blade through the scaps on deer and watched them fall, and I only shoot a 28 inch draw. But my bows are tuned at a VERY high level and my arrows are not what I consider light. The truth is everyone should shoot what makes the stuff between their ears feel all warm and fuzzy. That is really what counts. The problem with the great broadhead debate/war is that at least 95% of the guys that have an issue with recovering an animal then immediately blame the head that had made them feel all warm and fuzzy between the ears for the last 5 years and feel the need to bash said product for "failing them". When the truth is the just made a bad decision, and most likely a worse shot... #truth
If I can’t stay out of the “red” on either picture, I simply wait for a better shot! Between the “reds” with either mechanical or fixed=dead deer.
I have had Great success with marginal hits over the years with a 2 blade mechanical broadhead,with no less than 2" cutting diameter. Things happen between the time you shoot and when the arrow arrives,deer moves,ducks,etc. I started with vortek,then rage and now nap.Not all of my shots resulted in the classic double lung hits,some were too far back (guts) some too high,but still hit an artery. Good for the guys that have used fixed blades,but I will always use a good mechanical for Pa. whitetail.
There is no bowhunter on the planet that knows for certain he won't hit one of the red areas. I'll bet my house that 10x are hit and lost in the guts than in the scapula, irrespective of the head choice. But many of those lost gut shot animals would be found if the hunter knew proper follow-up skills when that unfortunate shot happens.