Black Gold Sights - Pure Gold
Two Blade Heads
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
12yards 22-Aug-19
Treeline 22-Aug-19
Buffalo1 22-Aug-19
Glunt@work 22-Aug-19
fastflight 22-Aug-19
elkmtngear 22-Aug-19
LBshooter 22-Aug-19
Ucsdryder 22-Aug-19
JTV 22-Aug-19
WapitiBob 22-Aug-19
Russ Koon 22-Aug-19
12yards 22-Aug-19
Buffalo1 22-Aug-19
GF 22-Aug-19
timex 23-Aug-19
Huntskifishcook 23-Aug-19
Johnny Koester 23-Aug-19
From: 12yards
22-Aug-19
I suppose this topic has been beaten before but I haven't seen it in awhile. What are your thoughts on two blade cut on contact heads? I have been going down in draw weight the last couple years from 60 to 50 pounds and think the two blade is a head I should consider using. I've shot deer with these heads in the past, but only a couple. The results were no different than any other head I've used. Do you think the penetration is much better than two blades with bleeders (4 blade heads)?

From: Treeline
22-Aug-19
Are you shooting a compound?

If so, you have plenty of energy to use a 3 or 4 blade head if that’s what you want.

A 45# compound will probably be able to send a similar mass weight arrow much faster than a 60# or even 70# longbow.

For reference, I like 3- and 4- blade heads and have killed lots of critters up to elk and moose with 3-blade Snuffers on 425 to 550 grain arrows off of 55# to 60# longbows. Have had quite a few complete pass throughs on elk with 425-450 gr arrows and 3-blade heads through the ribs.

For bigger animals like bison, I have used 2-blade heads and increased FOC and arrow mass. First animal I shot with my homemade longbow was a bison and the arrow was 25 yards on the other side of him after the shot. Cut, but did not break ribs on both sides. Arrow was a Carbon Express with a Magnus 125 2-blade on a 125 grain insert and weight tube - total arrow weight was over 780 grains.

Try tuning up an stiffer spine arrow with a heavier point weight to your lower draw weight bow. Maybe even use the same arrows that you were using for 60#s with heavier point weight up front and you will be happy with the results. Today’s broadhead selection is amazing for heavyweight (200+ gr) 2- and 3- blade heads.

Don’t be afraid of going up to 300 grains or more up front!

From: Buffalo1
22-Aug-19
COC have been around a lot longer than mechanicals.

Why be afraid to go retro?

From: Glunt@work
22-Aug-19
I shoot 2 blades most of the time because I like stuff simple. They have worked well for me and I have zero doubt about how they will perform.

Even at 50# you have way more energy than my trad set up and should have no penetration issue with a 3 or 4 blade head with a good design.

From: fastflight
22-Aug-19
I had my son use 2 blade COC when he was shooting lower poundage after getting bad penetration with a 4 blade step brodhead. Worked great!

From: elkmtngear
22-Aug-19
I switched to a 2 blade head, way back in the early 80s, mainly due to issues of arrow flight. Being involved in a few unsuccessful recoveries after I started elk hunting...I became a big fan of the "exit wound".

If 2 blades without a bleeder can in some way allow that arrow to slip through tissue easier...I'm going to keep using them. All my elk have been killed with 2 blade heads. I don't need a foot-wide blood trail, to recover a bull...just a steady one.

They work for me, but everyone should use whatever they've had success with. No need to re-invent the wheel.

From: LBshooter
22-Aug-19
Zwickey two blade Eskimo has taken every big ga,e animal and is still going strong, you can't go wrong with them.

From: Ucsdryder
22-Aug-19
I use a 2 blade coc. I love them!

From: JTV
22-Aug-19
why a two blade for deer ?? Deer are not that all to get penetration, esp. with a modern bow... a good COC 4 Blade does more damage than a two blade ... Slick Trick Viper Trick, Wicked Trick, Wac 'Em 4 Blade, Tooth of the Arrow, many good 4 Blade COC's out there ... the only time I'd ever use a two blade would be for large dangerous African Game ... been using a 4 blade for over 20 years, they have never failed me ....

From: WapitiBob
22-Aug-19
The only 2 blade I've shot was the carbon express F-15 dual bleeder head. Did exactly what the adds said it would; cutting two "flaps" in addition to the main blade cuts. Zipped thru like it was butter and watched him go down.

From: Russ Koon
22-Aug-19
Many years ago, Bowhunting World magazine ran a test on the effects on penetration in various target media using identical arrows and specially made Thunderheads with etra slots to use two, three, or more blades. The test was performed in manner that isolated the differences so that only the effects of the added blades would be seen in the results.

There was so little difference in the penetration that it was almost too close to determine with the additional blades.

I was already a believer in the benefit of the third blade, since it opens a triangular cut instead of a slit, making a decent blood trail more likely and one closed from the sifting of the hide during animal movement less so. But I was also strongly in favor of the "two holes are better than one" theory, so I wanted the best penetration without giving up too much in cut area to achieve it. The test confirmed for me that the three-blade head I had chosen was probably the best compromise for me, and I've been very satisfied with them over the years. The 50% gain in cut area per inch of penetration over a head of equal size in a two-blade, plus the ability of a small but extremely hard tip to penetrate bone without curling, seem to me to be well worth the slight extra resistance of a third blade to the goal of a passthrough.

Still shooting those old TH125's and still convinced they may be the best of all time when all factors are considered. Now that I'm 74 and shooting a bit less draw weight, I still consider the extra blade to be worth the very small penetration loss. I shoot a little more arrow weight to increase my penetration with the slower arrow, and limit my shot distance to minimize the effect of the slower arrow on shot placement.

From: 12yards
22-Aug-19
Thanks for the input. I'll probably stick with my 125 grain NAP Hellrazors then and maybe transition to VPAs. Also have some 150 grain 4 blade Magnus I can use.

From: Buffalo1
22-Aug-19
12 Yards,

For lower poundage compounds I have been impressed with the performance of 3-blade Woodsman Elite put out by 3-Rivers Archery and the 3-blade VPA’s. Both are well built, fly well and penetrate game. I’m shooting 52# Elite bow so I am not a “speed demon” by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree, I like the 3rd blade for an extra slash to increase chances for blood drainage.

From: GF
22-Aug-19
Don’t forget, though; a third blade really only helps open a wound through muscle, and really only matters if you’re comparing to a 2-blade which happens to hit with the main blade nearly parallel to the grain of the muscle. It’s like sticking your finger inside of a stretched rubber band; stretch it more and it just squeezes down a little, but nick it with a blade and it’ll blow.

In the internal tissues (with the possible exception of Liver),things tend to pull away from the cut. Heavy muscle does, too, when it contracts. But with the blade parallel to the grain, basically you don’t really cut through anything.

One problem with 3-blades is a bone hit. Not ribs, but heavier bone. If a 2-blade strikes the edge of a heavy bone, the opposite edge will cut sideways to create a path. A three-blade presents a lot of resistance to that “sliding around” the bone, since now the pressure of blade on bone is trying to push the broad sides of two blades sideways through flesh.

A big problem with a lot of modern heads is blade angle. The Hellrazors are a good example; I didn’t get a clean pass-through from a fast (Bowtech Commander) #50 compound when I hit high below the spine on a pretty small doe at Gimmie distance. A part of that is the blade angle/ length:width ratio, which on that head is 1:1. 45 degrees. 1.5X as steep as the 3:1 ratio espoused by Howard Hill. And that was a man who drew some poundage!

I cannot disagree with the recommendation for the Thunderhead, though. Awfully tough to beat, and if somebody told me I could never use anything else, I’d never give it a moment’s thought.

That said, I like 2-blades for Trad bows, and am planning to go to Aces soon. I’m just not that happy with the edges I’m able to put on the heads I have now, and I’m hoping that a different steel and I will get on better..

From: timex
23-Aug-19
iv shot 2 edge heads almost exclusively for over 30 years from both trad & compound. sharpened properly & placed in the vitals properly will kill as good as anything. my current compound is a bowtec 101st airborne at an estimated 65#s & shooting 130 gr zwickey no mercy plus adaptor = 155grains & I can almost shoot clean through a whitetail any way it's standing .also a properly tuned compound is very important when shooting big fixed 2 edge heads. I bare shaft tune my compound

23-Aug-19
If you are shooting a single bevel 2 blade it is important to remember that arrow will rotate all the way through the animal. A 3 or 4 blade or even double bevel 2 blade head stops rotating the second it enters an animal. So even if the 2 blade, single bevel, might only be 1" wide, it is creating a much larger wound channel than 1". None of this is true if the 2 blade is a double bevel.

23-Aug-19
I think so. Since 1955 I've killed lots of deer and never used anything but the Bear Razorhead both with the bleeders and without. Believe the heads without the bleeders gets better penetration and more pass through. If your using a back quiver, the bleeders tend to hang up on you also. A two blade, cut on contact will kill anything you want too as long as it's sharp, Good Hunting

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