E Bikes
Contributors to this thread:Elk
From: Sivart
26-Sep-19
Has anyone used these to access elk hunting spots? How do they work? Just starting to research.
From: Sivart
26-Sep-19
May even have use for whitetail hunting?
From: Brotsky
26-Sep-19
Stix, that depends upon the specific forest and who's doing the enforcing. It's not that way everywhere.
From: GF
26-Sep-19
If you do a surge, you’ll find any number of lengthy threads on here.
Nobody has an issue with them on Private land.
Most people who currently hike in quite a ways are pretty unhappy about seeing them permitted in the high, lonesome areas which are currently off limits to “motorized” vehicles.
The drainage where I hunt (in the rare event that I can get out there) has gotten to where there is 4-5X the pressure that we had 20 years ago, just because of the additional cow tags, and it’s dedignated Wilderness Area. If E-bikes were permitted on the trails up to the edge of the WA, the pressure would no doubt increase very quickly, and I’m enough of a cynic to expect there would be ample numbers of people “accidentally” straying over the line.
So I’m definitely not favorably inclined.
From: KHNC
26-Sep-19
The laws have changed recently. they are now legal anywhere a regular bike is legal. Including national parks and forests. But , you better buy a heavy duty version if you get one. Vibration on rough roads will cause many problems on ebikes.
From: WapitiBob
26-Sep-19
WapitiBob's Link
They are now legal on Dept of Interior lands, they are still classified as motorized on Dept of Agriculture lands ie; Forest Service.
Link to the Interior Dept Order:
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/elips/documents/so_3376_-_increasing_recreational_opportunities_through_the_use_of_electric_bikes_-508_0.pdf
From: KHNC
26-Sep-19
GF, ebikes will likely never be permitted in designated wilderness areas. Regular bikes arent even permitted in those areas now.
From: Brun
26-Sep-19
I used one for the first time this year on my hunt in northwest Colorado on BLM lands. I didn't really need it to get into places where a truck or ATV wasn't allowed, but it enabled me to cross several wide open areas quickly and silently without spooking animals. In several of these places it would have been impossible not to scare everything nearby in either a truck or an ATV. Several times I witnessed ATVs spooking animals from a long distance and I'm sure the drivers weren't even aware of what happened. I'm going to post a story of my hunt before long and I will include more info on how I used the e bike.
From: GF
26-Sep-19
I know that; I also know that WA boundaries are routinely violated when people figure they can get away with it.
And where my brother and I hunt, an e-bike would provide a staggering advantage over human power, inside of the line or out.
From: Sivart
26-Sep-19
I wouldn't use them anywhere that an ATV isn't allowed.
From: Jaquomo
27-Sep-19
Like with corner crossing, some Ranger Districts enforce it, others don't. Mine doesn't enforce it on closed USFS roads. But you will get a ticket for corner hopping.
I find it somewhat funny that some of the most outspoken anti-assist bike voices on other threads are also some of the most vocal advocates of illegal corner-crossing...
From: Sivart
27-Sep-19
Very true
From: JL
27-Sep-19
Seen this the other day at one of our local sporting goods stores. They're very spendy.
From: JL
27-Sep-19
From: Jaquomo
27-Sep-19
Thats why not everybody is going to run out and buy one. Plus, it's a hard ride in most places, even on ATV roads. You have to be a good MTB rider, strong and able to negotiate loose rocks. I fell pretty hard a couple days ago riding in to hunt on an ATV road that even ATVs don't attempt anymore because it's so eroded.
From: JL
27-Sep-19
^sounds like you didn't get hurt too bad? Seen last week the news story/video of the motorcycle rider on one of those very narrow, rocky mountain trails going over the side. He survived but it was scary.
From: Jaquomo
27-Sep-19
Just a skinned knee and bruised elbow. Had my bow on my pack and it was fine. Unlike on a motorcycle you are usually riding very slowly to negotiate the rough terrain so most "crashes" are off to the side when a rock goes out sideways or losing traction on a side-sloping road/trail.
Unlike an ATV, these tools are not just something an inexperienced fat ass jumps on and rides through the woods. You must have your spit together unless riding a groomed road.
From: KHNC
27-Sep-19
And vibration is an absolute bitch on the bike!! I had a back tire come off after a six mile ride back to camp last week. Jumped on the next morning , hit the pedal, boom! Tire fell off. Handlebars constantly were getting loose too. Constant issues. If that tire would have fell off while riding , could have been terrible.
From: Jaquomo
27-Sep-19
KHNC, what bike do you have? I have a Rambo, ride it all the time in rough, nasty terrain here where I live in the NoCo mountains, and have never had any issues except a flat tire when a spike went through it.
From: JL
27-Sep-19
JL's Link
Jaq....here is that recent story I was talking about above. It was in your neck of the woods.
From: lamb
27-Sep-19
jaq exactly!! trails are eroded because of atv's and ebikes . eco system is very delicate in the west. get em out of the forest
From: Jaquomo
27-Sep-19
Ha! Lamb, show me one single trail anywhere on the planet that is eroded by a low pressure, low speed, fat tire ebike and I will give you my mountain cabin. Horses do 10,000X, more damage to trails than ebikes would, even if every horseman were riding an ebike. Learn something before you spout off.
From: plenty coups
27-Sep-19
i have walked many trails torn to shreds by horses. NEVER have I been on a bike trail that was difficult to walk because of tire track caused erosion. And I have walked a lot of miles in my 62 years.
From: Yellowjacket
27-Sep-19
My experience is the same as several others on here. It's not easy riding an ebike on your typical mountain rocky hiking trail. They really shine though riding in place of an ATV or even a pickup. Obviously quieter and less intrusive.
And they are downright fun to ride. At home I'll start out on a 1/2 mile ride to the post office and start tooling around and end up riding 10-15 miles just for fun!
From: Brun
27-Sep-19
Jaq x 2
From: txhunter58
27-Sep-19
BTW. It would be great to do a “search” on here but there is no way to do that on bowsite. ????
But here is a link to a recent discussion: https://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thread.cfm?threadid=246843&messages=17&state=Co
From: t-roy
27-Sep-19
txhunter.......just type in Bowsite, then your search topic. Usually works pretty well that way.
Do you guys that use ebikes, put Slime in the tires, or would that not help with the flat tire issues?
From: Irishman
27-Sep-19
I've found that the fat tire bikes (e.bikes or not) rarely ever get flat tires. At least I have never got any yet, in the same places where I was getting flats with smaller tire bikes. So, in my case, I do not use slime.
From: eBike John
28-Sep-19
eBike John's Link
Hi Folks, I would be happy to answer any questions on ebikes if you have any. I've been selling electric hunting bikes to bowsiters for 2 yrs now and offer a generous bowsite discount that you can unlock by reaching out to me.
I'll attach a link to a blog I once shared in an earlier thread for anyone curious.
From: Jaquomo
28-Sep-19
John will fix you up.
I installed tire liners instead of Slime, Tuff Goo, etc. The only flat I've ever had was from a puncture that neither Goo or the liner could stop. I also carry a patch kit and a couple compressed air cylinders because there are lots of sharp granite and quartz rocks where I ride and hunt.
From: David A.
30-Sep-19
Anyone try the UBCO bike? Very impressive from the youtube videos...but $$$...
ubco.com
From: Z Barebow
30-Sep-19
I have been corresponding with John about an upcoming purchase which I am researching. He responded twice on a Sunday! When I pull the trigger, I know where I will be shopping. (And I will post pictures of my new addition!)
From: ND String Puller
30-Sep-19
I'm tempted to pull the trigger also. I have some spots along open FS roads that are "places without faces" so to speak. I don't dare park my 4-wheeler or pickup close by and give away my honey hole. I've been hiking down the road a mile and bailing off in the trees if I hear someone driving down the road. If I had a decent bike I could just stash it in the trees. Seems I spend more energy every year evading other hunters. This year I used waders to cross a river everyday. It got old fast, but I was into elk sign as soon as I got across. Had some close calls but never did get a shot.
From: eBike John
01-Oct-19
David A, I just looked up those UBCO bikes. I had seen them a year ago but they were only available in New Zealand and Australia, but i see they have a US location now in Eugene OR. but boy that is pricey, $7K + tax + shipping.
I would recommend a good mid drive ebike for climbing all terrain.
From: APauls
01-Oct-19
I dealt with John and picked up an ebike. Can't say enough good things about dealing with him. Really believe he helped me find a value proposition I couldn't find elsewhere with Bakcou Mule. Very happy with it. These things are machines. I've loaded 100 pounds onto it (besides my body weight) and you don't even notice a difference in performance. Packed out a mulie in minutes. I hunt whitetails carrying in my stand on a pack and go about a mile effortlessly and quietly. They really are an impressive workhorse. The walk assist mode is a feature I use way more than I thought I would. Definitely something I would recommend making sure you have on an ebike as a hunter. The derailleur guards are important. Mid drive motor, and of course it already comes with a rack that you're going to want. A lot of times our provincial parks are closed off in elk season and I've spent up to an hour and a half walking a road in the darkness to get to where I want to be. That will be like 10 minutes in the future ;) It's crazy what they are capable of. I've tested it going for miles and miles where there are no trails, through tall grass I thought a lot of times "well if a bike will fail this is where" nope, this thing just keeps right on rocking. I love it.
From: Sivart
01-Oct-19
I also ordered one from John. He was super helpful.
From: eBike John
02-Oct-19
Hey APauls, thanks for the kind words. I will have to post that as a review on my site! :)
From: Pat Lefemine
02-Oct-19
I’ve been on my bike all week and it’s the best thing ever for deer hunters. Except that I freak deer out because they don’t hear me coming and they freak out when I cruise by my food plots.
I have been strapping my bow to my pack but yesterday I installed a bow rack on the handlebars and I like that way better. I’ve had no issues at all with my bike except the charger went bad. Got a new one off amazon for 30.00.
e-bike John has been terrific and everyone should consider him first if you are shopping for a bike. You won’t regret it.
From: Jaquomo
02-Oct-19
Pat, which bow rack did you install?
From: Grey Ghost
02-Oct-19
This year I had the opportunity to help pack out a monster bull with 2 guys who had e-bikes. I have to say, the whole experience changed my opinion of them. These guys easily covered about half of the distance on their e-bikes with full bone-in quarters strapped on. The bikes saved a ton of time and effort.
John, once I convince my wife that an e-bike is a necessary purchase, I will be contacting you.
Matt
From: KHNC
02-Oct-19
Jaq, I was using the E-Ninja from China. West Houston Archery shop in Tx sells them. I borrowed it from a friend.Not near the quality of a Rambo. I have tested those in Denver at No limits archery. If and when i buy one, it wont be the E-Ninja.
From: Pat Lefemine
02-Oct-19
Handlebar rack
Handlebar rack
Just a cheap Kolpin bow holder. 40 bucks.
From: cnelk
02-Oct-19
Jaq - I wonder if we will need to case our bows while on E Bikes her ein Colorado? Since they are 'motorized'?
From: eBike John
02-Oct-19
Pat, thanks for sharing the bow holder you use. I'm asked every day for a come set up and there are not many options.
cnelk, 750 is not motorized. i know Jaquomo has a 750 Rambo so he can go anywhere a regular bike can go because it's considered a class 2 ebike and not motorized. if you have a 1000 watt then yes, that's motorized.
From: Grey Ghost
02-Oct-19
Are any of the models better suited for larger riders? I'm 6'-4" and around 240#. I see the Rambo is rated for 300#. That doesn't leave much capacity for a moderately heavy pack, or a large hind quarter. Do any have a higher rating?
Matt
From: txhunter58
02-Oct-19
“ 750 is not motorized. i know Jaquomo has a 750 Rambo so he can go anywhere a regular bike can go because it's considered a class 2 ebike and not motorized“
That is true on BLM and national parks. Not true on national forest. At least not yet. Talked to the San Juan Forest office in Durango and the told me they were writing tickets for any ebike on nonmotorized trails
From: x-man
02-Oct-19
The tow behind trailer is a good way to carry more weight without strapping it to your body. I have an old child carrier trailer that I plan to fit with better tires, lose the child seat and retro-fit a game carrier. $5 at a garage sale.
From: Rut Nut
02-Oct-19
txhunter- I'm sure there will be those who just pay the fine and consider it the "cost of doing business", so to speak. They'd rather pay the fine and save all that work. Kinda like the folks that payed the fine for not buying into Obamacare! ;-)
From: Grasshopper
02-Oct-19
I just got blocked and kicked off the bha Colorado Facebook page for having a differing opinion than their "sportsman oppose ebike legal use" on trails position. If your not drinking their Kool aid, your not welcome in their "diverse" group of Dems.
From: lamb
02-Oct-19
jaq you always have the answers??? the ebikes and 4 wheelers go every where there not supposed to go. many forest service roads no motorized vehicles but there tracks are always there. i'd much rather see someone riding a horse by me than a fat arse on an ebike crying my knee hurts me
From: Z Barebow
02-Oct-19
lamb- I didn't know my arse is big? Although I have had two knee surgeries, it has been a few decades since I cried. Carry on.
From: Jaquomo
02-Oct-19
Lamb - didnt you drive your 4WD pickup across the fragile ecosystem of the West to retrieve your elk whole this year? Or was your hero photo on the elk meatpole an optical illusion?
Show us one photo of an ebike track where it wasn't supposed to go. You're making stuff up.
From: Jaquomo
02-Oct-19
For that matter, show us one photo of a fatass on an ebike anywhere.
From: Jaquomo
02-Oct-19
Here's lamb protecting the "fragile ecosystem of the West" while resisting an ebike. His "hero shot". Nice work. I packed my bull out on my back. On foot. And my knee hurt like hell for the 25 days I hunted. On foot. In deadfall. And I'm 65 with a metal hip. Go cry somewhere else.
From: plenty coups
02-Oct-19
The opportunity to tear up the earth is far greater with an ATV than a bike of any kind. "Joe Hunter" is not going to get far off road/trail with one before he gets hurt. You don't just swing a leg over them and take off into the rough stuff. A tiny bit of practice plus winches chains etc and "Mr Fat Ass" can take an ATV and tear up the woods if he so chooses. I truly believe people raging against these bikes are afraid that some of us older and experienced hunters who can no longer walk and pack miles upon miles just may give younguns some competition in the woods. It is just another tool to use if you need it. The majority out there choose to shoot wheeled bows because it is easier and they see no issue there even though there are MANY issues that modern bows bring to the table. QUIT whining and help form management plans for them.
From: BIG BEAR
02-Oct-19
Do you hide them in the bush while you’re hunting ?? Or just park it and take the keys and don’t worry about someone stealing it ?
From: GF
02-Oct-19
“The majority out there choose to shoot wheeled bows because it is easier and they see no issue there even though there are MANY issues that modern bows bring to the table. QUIT whining and help form management plans for them.”
Yup.
JMO, there’s human power and there’s motor power. I don’t care how much.
If e-bikes play by the same rules as ATVs, I can’t object. If I find one in a wilderness area, I’ll be sending a photo with GPS coordinates to the nearest ranger station.
From: Pat Lefemine
02-Oct-19
Some of you guys amaze me.
Our entire way of life is under constant attack and you’re worried about eBikes? I think some soul searching may be in order.
From: APauls
03-Oct-19
I would bet an insane amount of money that a fat tire ebike disturbs the ground less than a horse. And makes less noise. For that matter it disturbs the ground less than a pair of boots. It’s like the anti-baiting deal. I get it if you’re against it because you don’t like it, but don’t claim it’s because of science. If you’ve got an ethical dilemma against baiting that’s one thing, if you’ve got an ethical dilemma with Ebikes (??) ok, but don’t claim they’re gonna rip up the ground. They are better for the ground than an elk walking through a meadow. A fat tire bike basically bends the grass and moves on. They’re not 1000cc dirt bikes that do burnouts every time you start em up. Claiming otherwise simply proves your ignorance to the actual product.
From: BIG BEAR
03-Oct-19
Adam..... I’ve been around the Bowsite since it began in the mid 90’s. The Michigan forums rose and swelled in numbers of guys who frequented there. Threads on baiting became extremely heated at times...... Then came crossbows..... Now the Michigan Forums are a ghost town....... Good people left because they got tired of the fighting.
Now some guys want to bitch about electric bikes ?? Hunters are consuming ourselves..... We’re our own worst enemies. It’s been that way for a long time.
From: leftee
03-Oct-19
Amen. And the end is just a matter of time.One more generation perhaps.Two max.
From: TrapperKayak
03-Oct-19
Yup, I just read some of this thread with amazement. Heavy use is what erodes trails, no matter what the mode of transport is. Some modes do it faster than others. I've seen trails in the Adirondacks, and in Washington State, eroded down a couple feet or more just by foot traffic alone. Horses do a number on them. That said, I am sticking to foot hiking, and mt. biking on roads to the trailheads. I'd rid horses if given the opportunity. IME horses don't spook game as much as you'd think. I have ridden right up to bulls on horseback in cover, not out in the open of course. But the horse noise did not scare them in cover. But I don't need to drop $4K for a motor bike yet, not until I get that metal hip... ;) That's just my choice, IDCWYD. I agree though, the amount of bitching and infighting is amazing to me. We are all in the same game here.
From: daleheth
03-Oct-19
Grey Ghost- have a Rambo 750 (bought from ebike John) and it works fine for me, 6'4" & 350lbs. If I use it fully unassisted, it will be slow (7-8 mph) on the steepest hills in Eastern Pennsylvania
From: Grey Ghost
03-Oct-19
Thanks for the info, Dale. I suspected the capacity ratings are on the conservative side. I think the rear rack on my buddies e-bike was rated for 55-60#, yet it handled an 80# elk hind quarter with no problems.
I caught my wife in a good mood last night and mentioned buying an e-bike. She only rolled her eyes, which I took as a clear green light to start shopping. ;-)
Matt
From: Dale Hajas
03-Oct-19
John thank you for your input here. Im currently recuperating from my first knee replacement, looking next week to find out about stenosis surgery and then my 2nd knee replacement. Although you haven't mentioned M2S bikes, Im looking at the Kush 750 and the All terrain pro 750. M2S is outfitting quite a few Archery shops here in Pa. Have you ever had the chance to review either or any M2S bikes? Thank You
From: NoWiser
03-Oct-19
I don't think anyone has a real problem with ebikes as long as they stay where they belong - on motorized trails. What is ridiculous is when people claim they shouldn't be classified as motorized, yet the only reason they own one is because they have a motor. That all said, I think they are an awesome tool and I wish I had the money to buy one. Someday when (if) the prices come down I'll be in the market.
From: Z Barebow
03-Oct-19
GG- I know if caught my wife in a good mood, I would not be talking e-bikes! LOL! Back to the subject. I have doing my research. It seems like the e-bikes that are truly designed for hunting are conservatively spec'd. If I were in your shoes, that is where I would focus my efforts. (And skip the street bikes or "universal" bikes) Mid drive motor might give you additional load margin vs rear/hub drive. (But mid drive typically costs more) My mantra, buy once cry once.
From: Grey Ghost
03-Oct-19
Z,
I have the same mantra. I've never regretted buying the best of the best once the financial sting wore off.
Some one educate me on the fat versus normal tire sizes. My 2 buddies had one of each. The only difference I noticed in performance was the fat-tired bike required 2 people to load and unload it from the truck. It seemed they were equally capable on the trail. Are there advantages to the fat tires that I didn't realize?
Matt
From: elkmtngear
03-Oct-19
"Are there advantages to the fat tires that I didn't realize"?
All I know, is they go flat just as easy as the skinny ones. Found that out, when I apparently rode over a cactus this Year.
From: Cazador
03-Oct-19
I saw two "bikers" this year on these E-bikes in places you would never think about. Imagine goat hunting terrain, well, they were way back in there on a trail that goes in. They took them across log bridges (pushed I assumed) but man, they were way back in there. They weren't hunters, just weekend warriors. Opened my eyes, you're not peddling into those areas.
From: Jaquomo
03-Oct-19
Fat tires are a way better ride. More stable, softer, safer ride (I run mine about 12-15 lbs pressure), better traction on side slopes on washed out, eroded ATV trails. The softer feel of low pressure lets you ride over rocks and small logs. I can easily load my Rambo into the back of my truck by myself, but prefer a dual rack made for fat tire bikes. I have thinner tires on my conventional MTB but fat tires are the only way to go for a true hunting bike.
From: Ironbow
03-Oct-19
What Jaq said. And I own a bike shop, work on bikes every day.
From: mn_archer
04-Oct-19
Its amazing to me the crazy things you guys get so easily offended by.
Some of y'all are no better than some of these crazy haired millennials searching for things to be offended by.
FFS, lighten up Francis
From: Rut Nut
04-Oct-19
I'm with NoWiser.......................................well said!
From: Grey Ghost
04-Oct-19
Thanks for the info, Lou. I was wondering if the fat tires required more effort to keep rolling, but apparently not so much.
So, are Rambo and Quiet Cat pretty much the cream of the crop for hunting e-bikes, or is there a lesser known (and cheaper) brand of equal quality?
Matt
From: APauls
04-Oct-19
Pretty sure my Bakcou Mule somehow has like "puncture proof" tires. On a hunting bike I'd want fat tires for sure. Even when you put a load on, that load is now distributed across 3x the surface area. Hitting a muddy puddle with a bunch of weight could be fun on small tires.
From: Jaquomo
04-Oct-19
I love the features on APauls bike but it's pretty spendy. There are a few things I don't like about the Rambo - low pedal clearance compared to some others, lack of a true "walk assist". But it's a solid tool and works well.
From: KHNC
04-Oct-19
Low pedal clearance can be a real issue. The E-Ninja bike i used in NM had decent clearance but i still slammed a rock with a pedal on a steep downhill. I am very experienced from years of MX and Enduro racing as a younger person, however , I can foresee that as a problem for many.
From: eBike John
04-Oct-19
eBike John's Link
Hi Dale, It's true I rarely mention M2S. It's me being selfish. i don't sell M2S, but full disclosure, it's not because I don't think they are good. it's because I have tried to sign them up as a supplier and they said no. A few times. They are a very small operation and produce only a couple of containers a year so they mostly are on pre-order so they prefer to manage all the sales channels themselves. My opinion is very positive, since I don't sell them I have no real feedback from customers but from what I see they have all the right components and have a good variety of bikes at affordable prices. I would think if you were to go with a M2S bike you wouldn't be disappointed.
This last year I have sold many Quietkat & Rambo Bikes, but I've sold more BAKCOU Mules than both of them put together and the feedback from hunters is phenomenal. Never have I sold something that customers are compelled to take pictures and send me the pics by email so they can share how much they love it. It really has to impress for people to take that step. Usually when we are happy with something we paid a lot of money for we are happy with it and that's that, but if there's an issue we will certainly voice our opinion. So to see the pics and videos that arrive it really must be going beyond expectations. I recently bought a very expensive laptop for work and it looks and works great. It would never occur to me to take a picture of my new laptop and email it to my electronics store to show my appreciation. That's what is happening when I sell the Mule. here's a link to the Mule in case some of you are wondering what the hell I'm talking about :-)
From: Jaquomo
04-Oct-19
I may be selling my Rambo and getting a Mule. If you plan to use it on public land, get the 750 watt. That's a Class 2, which is considered non-motorized by the feds, the Deparment of the Interior (BLM. National Parks) and states that regulate them. When the USFS gets around to figuring them out and permitting them wherever MTBs are allowed, pretty sure they will stick with Class 1-2.
John, question - can the Mule be downgraded to Class 1 by disconnecting/removing the throttle, like my Rambo?
From: cnelk
04-Oct-19
@eBike John
Question - what A/h battery would you recommend for a bike? I see there are some with 11.6 Ah, others with 10.4 Ah, some with 14.5 Ah
From: eBike John
04-Oct-19
@Jaq, The wiring is the same system, where you connect the color coded wires to each other. So yes, it's the same.
@cnelk, the bigger the better. Since it's the battery that determines the range you get per charge the more range the better. Since most batteries now are 48V the Ah is the one the differs. a lot of guys now choose a larger Ah battery so they have that extra range and don't need to carry an extra battery in their backpack. the larger the battery the more expensive but if you can afford it it's usually better in general to have a battery with more range. A quick trick to gauge how much range you can get on a battery would be to double the Ah number. the result would be roughly the amount of miles you get on a full charge, ona flat terrain with throttle only. so an 11.6Ah would be roughly 23 miles. Obviously conditions, terrain, rider weight, uphill, extreme cold etc can all impact the range of the battery, so to be safe guys will rather have more range in the bike than they need to avoid cycling it back.
From: Bake
04-Oct-19
Nevermind. I saw the answer on the website
From: APauls
04-Oct-19
The one and only thing I would caution against the bigger battery is weight. Not that the weight itself matters, but the fact that the weight is higher up on the bike. Depending on your biking ability and agility, and terrain you'll be using it in a number of factors come into play.
I carried my pack on my back with my bow. Any weight you add, and the higher you add it makes you very high center. Once you start to go, you're going and you can't reverse it easily like a nimble city bike. These batteries are HEAVY. I wonder what the weights on them are. Any weight you add for battery is adding weight higher up on the frame. I biked through some stuff I should never have taken a bike on, but I wanted to see what it could do. I had to bail twice, and the first time I was very lucky I didn't look like a dead ram tumbling down a mountain. With a pack on your back and hunting boots on your feet you sure can't dismount a bike as quickly and efficiently as a person is used to.
Just a word of caution.
From: APauls
04-Oct-19
From: eBike John
04-Oct-19
@Bake, Usually the 17" frame would be suitable for someone in the height range of 5'5" to 5'9" and the 19" frame from 5'10" and beyond. The mule is a little different. Since the designed the bike around the Ultra motor so it performs as well as it can, the smaller overall frame would not allow the motor perform at optimal levels. So to still cater for the shorter range the frame is the same except the seat tube is shorter (the metal tube that the seat fits into), so the seat height is lower to the ground. The Mule stand over height is 26" and the seat to floor height is 30" and 32" respectively (17" v 19").
From: eBike John
04-Oct-19
Adam, that's good advice, thanks for sharing
From: Dale Hajas
04-Oct-19
John your truthfulness and positive remarks are a breath of fresh air. I certainly appreciate it. Im sure you just earned yourself some new customers just by being honest. Thank You
From: APauls
05-Oct-19
Dave I believe it’s listed at 75lbs but I weighed mine at hunting weight at 71
From: AFTERMERLE
05-Oct-19
Dale, After allowing a local bike shop to inspect the specs, to my surprise, without hesitation they confirmed what EBike John stated M2s bikes were good products. I bought my M2S All-Terrain 750 last November and love it. My first hunting trip wouldn't you know it I woke to 4" inches of fresh snow. I took a deep breath and off I went. It was a breeze. For the remainder of the week, I would trade off with my middle aged son and he would travel on to his stands . He immediately announced his desire to own one, which he now does. I haven't invested in a trailer yet but I will in the future. My son this summer hung stands by pulling them in his sled 3/4 mile with the 750. They struggle in soft mud like any vehicle, however they perform excellent in the ditch along side the road or trail, anywhere there is grass or gravel. BTW: I'm 62 yrs old, 6ft, and 300lbs
From: Dale Hajas
05-Oct-19
Thank You Danny! Im looking at that 750 or the Kush. Glad to hear this!
From: Huntcell
05-Oct-19
Bought the 750 just took delivery finished final assembly today . Now if the raining spell would quit could get out and ride .
From: Dale Hajas
05-Oct-19
Nice! And the fenders and rack come standard equipment with it right?
From: Huntcell
05-Oct-19
Yes they do and lights And kick stand battery charger . Going change the seat , looking for one with suspension. Adding a bow holder on the handle bars, panniers
From: Bake
07-Oct-19
I hate all you guys. I'm leaving bowsite. I'd have a lot more money if it wasn't for all you positive reviewer type people :)
From: Z Barebow
07-Oct-19
Bake
Success in archery through expense!
From: Dale Hajas
07-Oct-19
Ive gotta tell you I so look to early retirement next spring. Ive had bad knees for 10 yrs., while at one time 3 kids in college. Im a steelworker and if you miss a day you dont get paid. Couldnt afford to get fixed back then. S&A is $300 wk. Left knee replacement last month, neurosurgeon tomorrow for stenosis treatment, then hoping to get right knee before I retire. So when I see the bikes it means I can hunt and I mean HUNT! It doesnt make it easier for me to kill, like say a crossbow or rifle. I have more access.
Between Ebikes, snowtrekker tents and vintage Bear bows, my wife may never see me again starting next year:)
From: Jaquomo
07-Oct-19
One cool thing is that if you are hunting where there is legal ATV access you don't need to haul an ATV around. Just pop the bike in the back of a pickup or on a rack (mine is on a rack behind my camper), hop on, and go.
From: Tonybear61
08-Oct-19
Use a little bit of Yankee ingenuity and you should be able to make a trailer combo for your pedal mountain bike. Save the $3.5K for the money to make the trip and get a new bow , binos, range finder, camo, arrows, broadheads, tent, sleeping bag, .....
From: NoWiser
08-Oct-19
That's one of the more attractive aspects, Jaq. A bike and small Honda generator to charge it at night take up very little room. If someone offered me a nice ebike or ATV, I'd take the bike every time. I could see a use for them on almost every hunt I've done in the last 5 years. Someday...
With studded tires would an ebike have enough power to tow a sled with some fishing gear and an ice auger in it? I have not had the opportunity to ride one yet.
From: Jaquomo
08-Oct-19
Nowiser. I only use assist when really needed and rhen only the lowest amount, which will give me 30+ miles of riding. So I only have to charge it with the little Honda generator occasionally, when also charging my camper battery.
I bet you could tow a Jet sled with auger and some gear if you could find 4" studded tires. In low gear and highest level of assist they have enough torque to climb a tree.
From: Outdoordan
08-Oct-19
I built one and had a blast with it this year. I think I left bow at camp and rode bike a couple of times, lol. I think there is some misinformation about ebikes on trails. Ebikes are fairly heavy, and with a backpack it is extremely tough to ride on any technical trail. We rode logging roads and bugled/called. It was great until I called in a Grizzly to 30-40 yards.
From: KHNC
08-Oct-19
M2S is located about 10 miles from me, near Arden NC. I have been tempted to by the 750 for a while now. Durability is what i was concerned about. they look great and i am glad to hear they are indeed good choices.
From: David A.
08-Oct-19
David A.'s Link
Cool lifestyle...
From: David A.
08-Oct-19
David A.'s Link
More on the UBCO bike, I'm impressed although ya' it's not cheap.
From: swede
08-Oct-19
I know e-bikes are relatively new, but like Lou, I have never seen any damage from one. If you compare them with what a herd of cattle, elk or a string of pack animals will do, we should all applaud the e-bike. It is my opinion they should be allowed anywhere a horse can go except in designated wilderness. An e-bike does not eat or poop on anything, and what little they mash down or displace with their wheels is insignificant.
From: sschultz
08-Oct-19
Huntcell please let us know how you like the M2
From: Tonybear61
08-Oct-19
...and the battery goes dead leaving you miles in . Have to walk back, why not walk in the first place??
From: APauls
08-Oct-19
Tony it’s still a perfectly good bike after the battery is dead.
From: Huntcell
08-Oct-19
Going to Iowa bluff country Tommorrow check some cams and stuff will see how it handles the hills . I bought rear drive version it fairly flat were I live in Wi but mostly I went cheaper route. the center drive version is better for rough trails and inclines. Will test out the handle bar bow holder also. Will be getting panniers for it . Also need to mount some struts across the rear rack to better accommodate Lone wolf stand and sticks. Plan to use it on 500 acres to access stand sites via old farm tractor trails 2 of them go from the bottoms up to the tops. it quite a hike from house to further reaches of property and difficult to not get heated up on walk to some stands, ebike should solve that. and then there are pastures can traverse . No crops what was fields are now pastures for beef cattle. Give it a trail run next two days
From: David A.
08-Oct-19
I like walking myself but getting from start point A and then over to another start point B is where I'd use an ebike.
From: nmwapiti
08-Oct-19
You guys definitely have me thinking about getting a bike. If they become legal on trails in the NF it just may happen.
From: AFTERMERLE
09-Oct-19
Tips for M2s buyers: Zip ties will go a long way to quieting down the rear fender. I also found the kick stand bolts can vibrate out. replacements can be found at any good hardware store. Lock tight is a must. Maybe the best tip is never brake with the throttle depressed. It's designed to protect your drive. It can and will throw an E-code, it's an easy fix. Simply disconnect (pull apart) the brake harness near the handle bar, then reconnect. This fall while be my 2nd season with mine, wish I had one years ago.
From: KHNC
10-Oct-19
I will say John is great to deal with. Even though i didnt buy from him, he seems very helpful and a great guy. Only reason i didnt get a bike from him was due to finding a 2018 Rambo R750 left over at a local shop. Half price and couldnt pass up. So im officially an ebike owner now.
From: elkmtngear
10-Oct-19
Congrats, Kenny...you might have to wait for me to pedal, and catch up with you next Year, LOL !
From: KHNC
11-Oct-19
Thanks Jeff, I got you covered tho buddy! ;)
From: Z Barebow
11-Oct-19
Kenny-Might need to pack a tow rope and pull Jeff along!
From: LINK
11-Oct-19
I haven’t been down a trail in the CO unit I hunt that I feel at all comfortable taking a bike down.Some of you most hunt some well manicured stuff. The one closed road I could bike down would save me a .5 mile walk. Not hardly worth toting a bicycle.
From: KHNC
11-Oct-19
The areas in New Mexico were very rocky and somewhat steep. You have to pay close attention , especially going down hill on rocks. I rode the brakes plenty this year! Some of the wyoming areas we hunted last year would be perfect ! We took regular bikes and about exhausted ourselves on the way in and out.
From: Jaquomo
11-Oct-19
The washed out, rocky, eroded places I ride in CO are treacherous for an ATV, and some are unridable on an ATV now. I spend a lot of time in the summer learning how to negotiate and navigate around rocks and along the edges, how to use the assist when needed, or not, while carrying a weighted hunting pack. Link, until you've spent some time on a fat tire ebike, you won't appreciate what they can do.
From: LINK
11-Oct-19
I’m sure Jaq. I wouldn’t mind trying it but holy crap, I sometimes wonder how people are doing it on a motor bike much less I bicycle with punie tires and spokes. I’d definitely need a fat seat or there would be nothing left of my manhood. ;)
From: Z Barebow
24-Oct-19
This thread needed a refresh. See link. Come on September!
https://mtstandard.com/outdoors/e-bikes-open-recreational-opportunity-too-much-say-some-in/article_a59768f1-8015-575c-a03e-7596998726aa.html?fbclid=IwAR3C4ur-Z3DU32yYwdv0xDJZHqiBxiHmeOmTaeg2NsfbL0YrB5aC7uAcH1w
From: Z Barebow
24-Oct-19
For some reason BS isn't let me copy link into URL box. (I will try again) (Tried w/o success) Copy link above into your browser. (And grab your popcorn)
From: Z Barebow
24-Oct-19
From: elkmtngear
24-Oct-19
elkmtngear's Link
Try this, Brian:
From: Z Barebow
24-Oct-19
Thanks Jeff. I was getting a blue server 500 error.
From: Jaquomo
24-Oct-19
Of course. These are some of the same people who are lobbying hard to get MTBs permitted in designated wilderness areas. Pot, meet kettle. And I dream of the day when Land Tawney's knees go to hell When I was his age I believed I could backpack from one side of a wilderness area to the other effortlessly, forever. Alas.
From: WapitiBob
24-Oct-19
The Order is for Interior Dept lands, not National Forest but, I suspect those will be coming. As with everything else, the world will keep turning and we'll keep enjoying the outdoors.
From: GF
24-Oct-19
NO MECHANIZED TRAVEL IN WILDERNESS!
Pretty straightforward concept.
From: lewis
24-Oct-19
Not that it matters but e-bikes are now allowed in the Smoky Mountains National Park Lewis
From: swede
25-Oct-19
It was late October 1973. I was hiking back to camp about 4 miles from the trailhead. I had been several miles farther back and actually had the steep brushy part behind me. As I was walking along a fellow with several horses came up to me. He was heading up the trail. He stopped to inform me I had no business being that far back, as I could not possibly get an elk out before it spoiled. His contention was that I was thoughtless and irresponsible. Now I read of concerns about e-bikes being noisy and causing damage. Which is noisier and will cause the most damage; a horse or an e-bike? I just got an e-bike a couple of weeks ago. One of the selling points is that it is so quiet it does not disturb game. I rode up behind a couple walking with their dog today. It would have been easy to run into them, including the dog as they had no idea I was so very close. I spoke to get their attention to my presence. I have been watching my new e-bile. To date it has never pooped on the trail or in a creek. It has not eaten a blade of grass or munched on the brushy forage we go by. It is always the same thing. People want to have the exclusive or near exclusive rights to the area they choose to hunt. Maybe we can stop others if we invent a concern or issue.
From: swede
26-Oct-19
Dave, I assume to are asking me, and I take it as a serious question. The old incident I referred to came long before Bowsite and e-bikes. The specific concerns were based on a post by Lamb that Jaquomo aptly dealt with. The other came from Elkmtngear's supporting link where it reads "Several fears do surround e-bikes in the woods -- that they are noisy and they cause more accidents." Contending that bicycles including e-bikes cause damage, are noisy or cause accidents more than horses or even hikers seems a stretch to me. I figure people that want to make that argument just want the area to themselves, and are going after the bike as a means to that end. They are just like the horseman I met on the trail years ago.
From: PECO
26-Oct-19
When one is on a bicycle crawling up a hill, spinning steady and holding a line at a snails pace, yes the bike is quiet. When you turn that bike around and are going down hill, the bike is not quiet. Chain slapping, some people don't know how to maintail their bikes and the breaks are squealing or howling, plus other creaks and clunks. Just putting that out there, as a long time mountain biker who has spent many hours and miles in the woods.
From: boonehuntr
27-Oct-19
Ordered my 1000w Mule from John Friday.. can't wait! I appreciate all of the input from everyone on this thread. Great place to learn from experience.. and everyone said John was the best, and it's true. He's awesome.
From: KHNC
28-Oct-19
Downhill is always on the way out for me. When im going in ,its always uphill! By the time im on my way out, the game is dead or spooked i guess. Either way the noise of the bike probably wont matter that much.
From: APauls
28-Oct-19
I can fully understand keeping mechanized travel out of places. That makes sense. All bikes, atv's etc, but again I'll say you have obviously never used one if you say they are noisier, or do more damage than horses. Most people can't afford horses or the room to keep them. This just takes away the advantage from horse people and brings the opportunity to more regular people. If you want to say foot traffic only that's fine too. It's always taken more money to get to the far away places, just like flying in Alaska. If a cheap personal plane becomes available the float plane guys will be against it.
From: Jaquomo
28-Oct-19
I ride right up on unalarmed animals whether downhill or uphill. One thing I've noticed vs. conventional MTBs - the fat, low pressure ebike tires seem quieter on the trail than the thinner, higher pressure MTB tires.
From: KHNC
28-Oct-19
I agree on the quietness of the Fat tires. They are MUCH more stable as well. You are less likely to eat dirt on those as traditional MTB tires.
From: PECO
28-Oct-19
I'll backpedal, I've not been around the new fat tire bikes. Sounds like that is the ticket to quietness. I'm still in the mindset that 2.2" is a fat tire.
From: swede
28-Oct-19
If a person dropped a dozen tin cans in a steel garbage can, duct taped the lid on, then tied it to his e-bike and went down the old logging road by your tree stand; maybe there would be some reason to complain. As quiet as these new bikes are it is a real stretch to consider them offensive.
From: Outdoordan
28-Oct-19
I agree. My buddy put the fattest tire on his traditional mountain bike which was 2.7". His bike was pretty squirrelly on the gravel roads when we were ripping along. My bike, a 4" fatty, was cruising downhill at approximately 35 mph and I could have taken a nap it was so smooth.
From: Knife Cobbler
28-Oct-19
I love my Rambo, I wish I could stop the click click as it moves. Do they all do that?
From: Jaquomo
28-Oct-19
Mine doesn't, I dont think. At least I've never noticed it. Sometimes I get a click in one pedal but a squirt of lithium grease fixes it.
From: swede
28-Oct-19
I hear a little click, click when I peddle the bike. I do not hear it when I am coasting. I think it may be the speedometer/odometer. I have picked up the front end and spun the front wheel and can hear nothing. Don't pay attention to Jaquomo. He is deaf.
From: Knife Cobbler
28-Oct-19
I have an audible click anytime it moves, the sound of a ten speed from my youth. otherwise it would be pretty damn silent. I have found its limitation on the hills around here, steep country in the bluffs of Buffalo county, when I have me and my gear on it. Otherwise I like it.
From: KHNC
29-Oct-19
So, i have an update on my ebike purchase. Got screwed by the guy in TN on my Rambo. Had to file a paypal dispute to get a refund since the guy refused to ship the bike to me. Ended up visiting M2S here local. Bought the All Terrain MD- 350w Mid drive. Not as powerful as the R750 Rambo MD, but plenty strong. I have put about 5 miles on it around the house so far testing it out. 8 speed gearbox and extremely quiet. I just did not feel confident buying a rear hub drive bike. We had some issues on those in NM on the two i borrowed for out hunt.
From: Jmorr
29-Oct-19
I have a question for those with experience hunting on these things. The area I hunt has miles of single track trails where motorcycles are permitted. I bought one a couple years ago and used it this year hunting for the first time. I have very little experience on a dirt bike and dang near killed myself multiple times ha ha. The very experienced riders I was with had a good laugh so nothing was lost.. In places, the trail is very steep and rocky. Easy stuff for someone with experience on a dirt bike, not so much for me. Would it be safer on an E-bike? Would I be able to handle that kind of terrain? It seems like a newb like me would have much more control without having to negotiate a clutch, throttle and brake with my hands..
From: KHNC
29-Oct-19
You probably want to buy one with 1000w, preferably Mid Drive with a good gear selection. I would only go with a reputable company on something like this. You need the extra power and a thumb throttle to negotiate very steep and rocky terrain in my opinion. This isnt the power option i purchased, but 90% of my use will not be in that type of terrain.
From: APauls
29-Oct-19
Jmorr that question is loaded with so many variables it's difficult to answer. Some terrain that a dirtbike could breeze through an ebike won't. Like rocks and boulders. Suspensions are different and ground clearance is different. Your riding capability is a question. Best thing to do is try one out somewhere.
From: Horniac
29-Oct-19
M2S
M2S
I bought an M2S R750 All Terrain last November. Great bulletproof bike for the price and M2S is very good to deal with. Love it for bike trails and around town. I tried it turkey hunting in NorCal and found that I wasn’t able to get up moderate hills on the throttle only. It is a rear hub drive which I know has it’s limitations.
I was thinking of buying another bike with the Bafaang Ultra mid drive motor. Can you get up steep hills with the throttle only or does it still require a degree of peddling in addition to the throttle?
Horniac
From: Twinetickler
29-Oct-19
I bought the Biktrix Juggernaut with the mid drive. It will go up moderate hills with just the throttle and will go anywhere you dare go on high assist pedaling it. I've had great luck with it so far. Packed out my bull this year, and will be using it on a midwest whitetail hunt for the next 10 days.
From: Jaquomo
29-Oct-19
I negotiate steep rocky stuff on my Rambo 750 but I don't use the throttle. Everything I do is by pedaling and managing the gears and assist levels. In low gear and assist level 9 it will climb a tree. But much depends on the skill level of the rider. I rode MTBs on rough trails before I got the Rambo. Newbies to ebikes should definitely work up to difficult terrain before just jumping on and starting up the hill.
Swede, I am sorta deaf without hearing aids. But with these new Phonaks I've had for a couple years I can hear a mouse fart across the valley! ;-)
From: swede
29-Oct-19
One more thing to consider with a good e-bike is that there is the walk mode. When it gets dangerous, get off and walk along side of the bike. I would plan on a mid motor hunting bike. I considered quite a few and have no regrets after getting an e-bike from E-Bike Generation. Jmorr, I am in the same situation you are. I got the 750 Bakcou Mule. I have not tested it to the limits, but do not believe I need more power. I agree with Jaquomo. I like to use the peddles wherever I go. The assist is what I look for and appreciate.
From: Jaquomo
29-Oct-19
Cnelk had a question earlier about whether a cased bow is required in CO. After talking with several in the CPW (much confusion ensued..) I learned that the CPW does not consider them motorized per CO law - 750 watts or under. They do not require a motorized vehicle registration sticker to ride on ATV or motorcycle trails in National Forest, as with an ATV. Nor do they require a bow to be cased while riding on National Forest trails open to motorized vehicles because they aren't considered motorized.
From: Cazador
29-Oct-19
Funny I can’t get the vision of motorized shopping carts at Walmart out of my head.
From: Jaquomo
30-Oct-19
Go down to a bike shop and try one, Chad. You can park your 4WD, ride it to where you take off on foot to hunt, and nobody will know where you are. Animals aren't alarmed either. Several of my best spots are on ridges and benches above county roads or ATV trails. I park my truck a couple miles away and ride silently up the roads/trails in the dark with my pack and bow on my back, tuck it in the timber, nobody is the wiser. They are great tools.
From: Robear
30-Oct-19
You guys all suck. I'm 4K poorer now!.
From: cnelk
30-Oct-19
I was told today that Ebikes are the Prius of the woods
From: swede
30-Oct-19
OK Robear, What is it?
From: Robear
30-Oct-19
I ordered a 1000w Camo Mule from John this aftenoon. Like the others have said on here, John was very pleasant to deal with.
From: KHNC
31-Oct-19
"I was told today that Ebikes are the Prius of the woods"
I was told last week that people born in May always want to argue. I told her that was BULL Shit!!
From: Z Barebow
31-Oct-19
Brad- I am leaning toward the "Tesla" of the woods. Looks sharp, quiet, quick, and not cheap!
From: ND String Puller
31-Oct-19
Can you guys enlighten me on the walk assist mode. I’m envisioning a slow creep mode. The mule has it, but the Rambo doesn’t. With the Rambo can you just burp the throttle while pushing it over some rough terrain? Is it worth the extra coin?
Also with the mule you get a 1000 watt but can dial back to 750 with what? Software? And how would one know what setting it’s on? Example getting stopped by a Fed.
I’d also like to ride in the winter, how do these things work if their left out in the cold while I hunt. Will I be pushing it back?
From: eBike John
31-Oct-19
ND String Puller, So the Mule has a walk assist mode which is basically a setting that runs the motor at 2.5mph so when walking with the bike you're not pushing it along, and if you have a trailer the bike is doing the pulling instead of you. It's a handy feature.
The Mule has a 1000watt Ultra mid drive motor on it, Bakcou (from what they tell me) are the only folks that Bafang gave them the licensed software to dial a 1000W down to a 750W setting. And since the 1000W motor is shipped as a 1000W or a 750W based on what was ordered, the motor power is not labeled at all. they are no markings on the bike itself. The dialing down (or back up) is done when Bakcou hook the motor up to their computer, and with the software they dial it, it just takes a few minutes. If you need it dialed back to 1000W you would need to ship them the motor to Utah because only they can do it. Does that help?
From: ND String Puller
31-Oct-19
Yes it does. What about the cold weather?
From: swede
31-Oct-19
The Mule will "walk" at 2 1/2 mph as you hold down a button. It quits walking as soon as you let off. With the thumb throttle is not as easy to regulate the speed. I cannot say if one bike is really that much better than another as I have only tried the Mule. I cannot help but think extreme cold would be as hard on an e-bike battery as any other. The Mule does not peddle hard until you are going fairly steep uphill. At that time you will notice it is a full 70 pounds plus.
From: eBike John
31-Oct-19
So lithium ion batteries do suffer in cold weather. In extreme weather batteries can be fully charged but lose 30% due to extreme cold. Not much in a workaround for that, it's just one of those things with lithium batteries. Just good to keep in mind when you are calculating how much range you need that day.
From: ND String Puller
31-Oct-19
Thank you guys, that helps. I’m still trying to convince the wife “we” need one of these. ;)
From: Jaquomo
31-Oct-19
The Rambo has a walk assist too. At least my 2016 R750 does. Just like the Mule, you hold down the "down" button on the assist. When you let off, it stops.
From: Bowsiteguy
02-Nov-19
You know that the ONE-MAN DRONE will be next, right? All the same arguments made above in favor of an ebike can be made for a battery-operated four-propeller drone capable of carrying a hunter and his pack up to the High Country. The technology is already here. You will hear: They save a bunch of time and effort. Gives all of us access to the public land we own, not just the physical elites. Unlike an ebike they are not something an inexperienced fatass jumps on and rides over the woods. They are quiet and do not erode trails. Our entire way of life is in danger from Californians (ooh, ooh) and all we have to worry about are drones. It’s a new age, boys. If the batteries get low, it returns to a designated landing area automatically, or descends slowly. It can fly above the 500 feet limit and descend into landlocked checkerboard public land. Blah, blah, blah. And I hope, when the inevitable argument comes, there are none of the personal attacks like the one Checkerboard Jaq made against lamb for having the audacity to state a contrary opinion.
From: Bowsiteguy
02-Nov-19
Apparently the Chinese have named the one-man drone, the "autonomous single passenger drone.” Get in, plug in coordinates, and get there. It will probably avoid trees and get to a height above appropriate ground where it can be exited and maneuvered to an on-the-ground spot. Something like that.
From: Robear
02-Nov-19
Pretty decent rant for a Saturday morning.
From: BC173
02-Nov-19
^^^^ what he said. Not bad, not bad at all. Lol
From: Jaquomo
02-Nov-19
Good way to start the day! Thanks for sharing your insightful perspective!
As for lamb, it wasn't his opinion, it was his blatant hypocrisy that needed to be addressed.
From: swede
03-Nov-19
Bowsiteguy has made me feel guilty of taking the easy way out. I confess it has been a lifelong habit of mine. I drive a comfortable pickup 400 mile to set up a base camp. I should have walked and hauled my gear in a wheel barrow. Scratch that wheel barrow, I meant a travois. I cheat by using a compound bow when I hunt. I even have binoculars, GPS, a laser rangefinder, modern pack, etc., and now an e-bike. I am 155 pounds and 72 years old now. I should also be ashamed. lol
From: leftee
03-Nov-19
No more landlocked public.
From: Robear
03-Nov-19
How do you guys transport your bike? Which rack are you using? Will a tailgate pad work?
From: Robear
03-Nov-19
From: Jahvada
03-Nov-19
Fella's I got a chance to ride one that is a prototype = not in production yet and it was more like a dirt bike w no peddles at all! Took the ride a couple of weeks ago with 4 friends and man it was almost like riding a dirtbike! Fair to say this is going to take off and be the next big thing. The guy who owns them even plans to rent them close to trailheads all over colorado as I imagine the tourists will love it.
With the technology we had (I was the only hunter 3 others were dirt bike enthusiasts) it will not be long until the technology we were on at least - I think lots of folks will start using them just wanting to get out and enjoy a motorized sport. Great way to get folks out on the hill that otherwise cant/wont peddle a bike as other have said the mountains sure are big.
The speed was amazing, suspension a bit sub par, gearing needed a bit of work, but power starting to get there we rode a trail that "motorized" bikes were not allowed on lol. Got some funny looks from hikers just blew right by them (as they dont hear you coming) one wanted us to stop and talk but just flew right by that guy. Speeds of about 30 mph on single track as not super fast but enough to have fun.
Yea big big changes in this technology coming for sure and I for one will be on the cutting edge ripping up the trails and rallying to hunting spots! Folks will either get on this train or get left behind. Almost feel sorry for the suckers that will be packing in on foot...
From: Jaquomo
03-Nov-19
Jahvada, the one you rode is, and always will be considered motorized by federal and state law. Harley even makes one. You are comparing apples to oranges. Now go drive your 4WD pickup and feel superior to someone pedaling.
From: Jahvada
03-Nov-19
The ones we were on were not illegal at all. The technology is improving and always will in this arena it is changing very very quickly. Gears/battery type/suspension do a lot! I have seen the harley in person - once it is super cool but street bikes are just not my thing, had a few, then built one ground up w 1500 s&s w 6 gears, saw a buddy broadside a car at 96 mph... Just been on dirt as I age.
Not feeling superior only my 2cents about changes that we will see. Just like the, 3 wheeler, then the atv, then the side by side, some will hate and be left behind others will use it. Real simple. Will not be long before these vehicles are the norm again simple as that. Sounds like we both will be some of the guys using them (same team! same team!) . Others will choose not to embrace this tech that is fine neither you or I am superior to folks who make this choice.
Interesting to me is the idea/concept of rentals as the ones we are on are street legal as well - hill to trail in 5 min. No permit needed from the usfs just super cool.
Sorry to ruffle your feathers man just wanted to throw up another perspective on how fast the tech catches up as they might be a year or so out but no doubt these sure will be fun. Also dont worry man I do my share or more peddling or pry more than most - again I just see these "motor bikes" as another great way for many types of folks to get out.
From: Jaquomo
03-Nov-19
Read the law. They are illegal on pedal bike trails. The feds and state have codified Class 1 and 2 pedal assist bikes vs. the electric motorcycles you are describing. The only difference is that one is a gas engine and the other is a Tesla-style electric engine. Just like the ATV, the 3 wheeler, and the side-by-side. They are permitted wherever post WW2 Willys Jeeps are permitted. But not on single tracks. Technology enables many things that laws and rules and practicality don't allow. How many bowhunters have jet packs? Think of the potential! We could rent them at trailheads!
From: Jaquomo
03-Nov-19
Robear, I use a heavy duty Capstone two bike rack from Kent International. Can hold two fat bikes, has multiple locking features for the bikes and hitch itself. Has a locking anti-wobble pin to secure the hitch in the receiver. Have used it for two years on rough roads and am very happy.
From: WapitiBob
03-Nov-19
".. we rode a trail that "motorized" bikes were not allowed on lol"
From: keepemsharp
03-Nov-19
If the folks that make them and the folks that sell them spend enough in the right places they will be every where. Just like the crossgun people did.
From: Jaquomo
03-Nov-19
^^^ That would be a great thing. If they get people off ATVs and pedaling quietly, all the better for health, the environment, trail erosion and noise pollution. I own two ATVs and can ride them everywhere legally where I live. The only time they come out of the garage now, since I got my Rambo, is to round up cattle.
From: swede
03-Nov-19
I too have areas of concern when it comes to improvements for hunting. It is generally in the area of killing the animal. I probably would not have approved the compound bow. It is just my value. I do not have a concern that e-bikes are going to spoil anything or give the owner an advantage. You have more opportunity with a horse or mule. An e-bike makes it a little easier to get back into some areas I would have to work harder to get to. The same claims against e-bikes could be made against hiking boots. They make it easier to get some places. To Wapitibob's point; I do not know if jahvada was serious or not. You can legally ride on an e-bike during fire closures where internal combustion engines are not allowed off road. You may be able to do it when the trail or road closure is for vehicles with internal combustion engines. To know if it was illegal or not, you need to read the specific closure order.
From: Robear
03-Nov-19
Thanks Jaq, that rack looks perfect.
From: swede
04-Nov-19
Here is the way I look at the e-bike equation: It does not make me a better hunter. It will not help me setup on, or shoot an elk. It simply makes some areas more available and allows me to hunt longer in places that otherwise I would have to access totally on foot. In some situations it is better than an ATV and in some situations the ATV has the advantage.
From: Jaquomo
05-Nov-19
^^^^This. Especially true here where deadfall and erosion are making ATV access impossible in some places, which in turn compresses hunters. But a bike can be lifted over deadfall across the trail. I still hunt just as hard, just as far on foot, my pack weighs the same, and I still have to find elk, craft a shot, make the shot, get the elk out.
From: APauls
05-Nov-19
Don't forget you still need to charge the battery somehow. Which may seem easier said than done.
From: swede
05-Nov-19
I do not know how you folks recharge the battery when you are away from home. I plan to purchase a 12v-110v inverter and plug my e-bike charger into that. I should get several recharges on my e-bike battery from that. Do any of you have a better inexpensive alternative? I would like the solar power option, but it is very expensive, and when I get back to camp it is dark. When I leave camp it is dark, so my e-bike will be nowhere near where a charger is in the day time.
From: BigRed
05-Nov-19
Has anyone actually ridden an ebike out with a load of a hind qtr or better strapped to their back? We're talking 80+ lbs or higher? Knowing some of the trails being discussed, I can't imagine this being safe or wise with even a seasoned rider. Let alone many on here who would probably consider themselves novice riders just looking for any easier trek to their honey holes.
We had many discussions amongst my hunting partners on ebikes while hiking in this season. The trails we were on were extremely steep in many areas, not to mention rocky. And while we all thought an ebike would be nice on the hike/climb in, none of us even considered it an option for coming off the mountain, especially in the dark. And with a load of elk strapped to you or your bike... suicide!
Maybe, I'm just getting old...
From: swede
05-Nov-19
Good question BigRed. When it comes to packing out, you can have a trailer as an option. If that is not workable you can set the e-bike in the "walk" mode and walk along side of the bike while it powers itself along. Finally, you can ditch the bike and take the 80# pack to where it is safe to load on your e-bike. I have a friend that carries elk quarters on his pack while riding his motorbike. I would not attempt it, but I know several people that can, or do. I think the advantage of the e-bike is that it is so easy to safely walk along side when the trail or terrain make it unsafe to ride. You cannot do that easily with an ATV or regular motorbike, if you can do it at all. In those situations the e-bike is usually still going to be an asset.
From: Jaquomo
05-Nov-19
I use a Honda 1000 generator to recharge mine, but I can ride/hunt for a week before it needs charging.
From: BULELK1
07-Nov-19
When the battery dies, it can be a long ride out......
From: APauls
07-Nov-19
The battery loss on the bikes are massive, so if you’re just planning on charging from your truck it better be running otherwise you’ll kill your truck. Or like Jaq has a generator. My point was, unless you have a decent or big setup, this isn’t the kind of thing that takes the spike camp 5 miles deeper than before and now a guy is plowing around with an ebike all week in the backcountry somewhere. It’s still going to have to be something a guy uses within range of a vehicle camp. Granted the range is longer than foot traffic, but if you want to get to your spot by first light, even if you are doing 8 miles an hour there is still that travel time involved.
I packed a whole mule deer on my back no problem. Similar to an elk quarter
From: Jaquomo
07-Nov-19
I ride mine with a weighted pack all summer, same as my hiking training. When I hit an especially rough spot I just get off and walk it, like Swede suggests.
From: swede
07-Nov-19
I plan to hunt out of a base camp and have no fear of running out of battery power. I too have a generator so I can recharge every evening if I need to. I think a good golf cart battery can silently recharge my e-bike several times before I need to recharge the nurse battery. Also since it takes several hours to recharge, I can go to bed and forget it on the charger. My brother stays near camp and can recharge the deep cell battery during the day. Riding back to camp with no battery would be no problem since it is all up hill to where I plan to hunt. As heavy as the e-bike is, it will go downhill just fine with zero battery power. Also the e-bike has a good gage to show where I am on battery life. Right now the gage shows I have 67% of my battery life left, and I have gone 32.6 miles. I use mode 1 and gear changes almost exclusively to extend my range. I am going up some fairly steep hills, but end up where I started. After my September hunt, I started planning on getting an ATV. My son suggested I look at an e-bike for the versatility it would provide. It had never occurred to me before. I am glad I considered his recommendation. Who worries about pushing their ATV back to camp?
From: APauls
08-Nov-19
Used it yesterday temp was -16 when I went in and -16 when I came out sat from dark to dark. Bike performed fine just the battery display read 0even though it was working fine. Figured it was a temp thing. Used it again today a balmy -6 when I went in battery read 96% and I did not charge last night. -3 when I came out. If you add up both days prob only covered 1.75 miles in the cold, but man it sure is sweet. So much quicker and quieter than walking. When I parked today I saw a buck chasing does as I leaned it against the tree.
From: Jaquomo
09-Nov-19
Geez, Adam, sounds like you're taking the easy way. To quote some dumbass troll on the other ebike thread, "Can't you just walk?" ;-)
Seriously, great to know you had no issues in subzero temps. I haven't used mine below the teens. Hope I never do! Good luck on your hunt. I walked in to my muley ambush with a full backpack of decoys, blind and gear this morning because there is too much cottonwood deadfall to ride. Would've if I couldve.
From: eBike John
10-Nov-19
Be safe out there... whatever way you get around!
From: midwest
10-Nov-19
Good Lord, Adam....you must have antifreeze in your veins!
From: Z Barebow
10-Nov-19
Z Barebow's Link
I read these articles and I have to laugh. It reminds me of the argument from traditional bowhunters toward compound bowhunters. Just as a animal doesn't know any difference between a compound launched arrow vs a traditional bow launched arrow. Each one makes an X and causes hemorrhage. A bike tire on the trail leaves identical impact. But someone has their butt hurt because someone's method isn't "traditional" or someone is perceived to have an advantage.
From: Jaquomo
10-Nov-19
Z, this is almost an exact parallel. And the statements by the guy from IMBA stating what maybe, might be allowed (Class 1) is like old time trad guys which I remember trying to make the rules for what would be acceptable on a compound bow back in the early 70s. Great article, thanks for posting the link.
From: chasintheslam
11-Nov-19
I deer hunt alot and have a quiet kat best investment I've made
From: APauls
11-Nov-19
-19 today, still rockin the bike. Can’t believe it still goes! For kicks tried throttle and it would only go 5mph. Only tried for 2 seconds didn’t wanna damage anything. While pedalling at 8mph it freezes the forehead quick. Tears form out of the eyes but just freeze and fall off the cheeks lol. The way in is no problem with a warm battery. After sitting on stand 9 hours is when she’s groggy
From: Bowsiteguy
17-Nov-19
I am scheduled for surgery in two weeks to attempt to re-attach my supraspinatus tendon and saw off some bone to relieve shoulder impingement pain. Low speed Fat Cat accident. Sooner or later many of you riding ebikes will suffer a serious injury. Inevitable.
From: Jaquomo
17-Nov-19
^^^ like I've said before, they aren't for everyone and there is a learning curve. Perfect example. Some aren't strong or fit enough to navigate terrain on an ebike. But people crash on conventional bikes all the time. Hunters injure themselves climbing into treestands, and even drawing their bows. Many people, including bowhunters, would be better off staying on the couch and watching hunting shows on TV than trying to use a tool that's beyond their ability.
From: Ambush
17-Nov-19
I sometimes fall over just walking.
From: Bowsiteguy
17-Nov-19
I am (or was) plenty fit, and have ridden motorcycles for many years (including racing dirt bikes on TT and flat tracks). I rode this Fat Cat many for years, including many miles in Idaho wilderness. You can be as fit as you want, as experienced as you want; It’s the combination of rough, dangerous country and two wheels. Sooner or later.
From: cnelk
17-Nov-19
I borrowed my buddy's ebike this weekend and took it for a ride this morning.
I did 5.5mi in less than 20mins and loved every minute of it. Hardly broke a sweat. I think Santa is making mine now...
From: Bowsiteguy
17-Nov-19
And, it’s not the fear of the pain (you never really think of that ahead of time) and the down time, rehab, etc.. I am looking at the real possibility of not being able to pull my bow for the rest of my life.
From: swede
17-Nov-19
I know that with every tool, every mechanical vehicle, every exercise there is a risk. I see no more risk with an e-bike than with a tree stand or many other things. If riding takes on any significant risk, get off and walk your bike. With an e-bike it is easier than a conventional one. You do not need to push it, and as soon as you let go of the button the bike stops rolling on its own. I would sure trust my Mule to not hurt me over any four legged one or a horse. At least my Mule has no evil intent.
From: Jaquomo
17-Nov-19
Interesting that you rode your Fat Cat in the Idaho wilderness... Anyway, why don't you tell us more about your low speed crash.
And I agree with Swede, you can slip in the shower and crack your skull open, knock yourself unconscious. I've done it. And horses? Lets not even go there...
From: Z Barebow
17-Nov-19
How many horse/mule train wreck stories vs e-bike wreck stories? I am sorry you got hurt, but I would rather be in control vs allowing my health to be at the mercy of a horse.
From: blackwolf
17-Nov-19
I have been riding my Rad-Mini for 2 years now. I have had a couple close calls but mostly because I didnt slow down or get off bike when I should have. This spring went off narrow backwoods bridge into beaver pond Swimming not fun in April. Today, cruising backwoods Wis trails full of slush, took a nasty dive. No injuries yet but I need to walk bike more and slw down. I am glad my mini is closer to the ground!
From: swede
17-Nov-19
Young people especially men seem to think they are invincible. Well before I crossed the age 70 mark I realized falls and wrecks hurt. Healing is harder and takes longer. Slow down and walk your bike when riding is questionable. My biggest fear is returning to camp after dark. I will need to remind myself of this advise.
From: plenty coups
18-Nov-19
Like most things they are probably a good tool if used properly. A car jack is a great tool but can be dangerous if misused or used with ignorance. If I could afford one I would definitely have one to get me back out in the hills, mountains, prairies and woods. I don't drive my Jeep hard and I see no reason I would do so with an E-bike.
From: Knife Cobbler
18-Nov-19
one piece of advice. If you ride to your stand in Kansas, dont park the bike under or near a honey locust tree. It does not end well, unless you enjoy 2 flat tires.
From: Jaquomo
18-Nov-19
Or Russian Olive. I learned those thorns even penetrate Tuffy tire liners.
From: NoWiser
18-Nov-19
You guys need to go tubeless. Many miles on my fatbike over rock, thorn, and cactus without a single flat. I found the bike handled slightly better when I went tubeless, as well.
From: Jaquomo
18-Nov-19
NoWiser, what tires do you use? I am going to switch after this hunting season.
From: NoWiser
18-Nov-19
Jaq,
I have Husker Dus, made by 45NRTH. I believe I got the 120 tpi version. I'm very happy with them. I don't know if a good fatbike tire also translates to a good ebike tire, but I'd imagine it would. I ride quite a bit of single track during the summer to stay in shape and these have less rolling resistance than the 45 NRTH Dillinger tires the bike came with, though the Dillingers offered a bit more traction and were studdable. I used 3M All Weather flashing tape when I set it up tubeless and it was extremely easy and effective. I used Orange Seal in the tires.
I'm actually considering getting a Bafang mid-drive kit for my bike. Much cheaper than buying a dedicated ebike. What I need to figure out is how easy it would be to switch it back and forth so I could still use it on the singletrack in summer.
From: swede
18-Nov-19
Do you use slime in your tires? On my mountain bike I had slime in the tubes. It made the tires heavy and peddling significantly harder. I have the tire liners on my e-bike and they seem to be a good compromise.
From: NoWiser
18-Nov-19
Swede, I use Orange seal. No doubt it adds some weight, but it's lighter and peddles noticeably easier with that than when I had tubes. No flats, either, even after peddling all over Wyoming antelope country (cactus).
From: Grey Ghost
18-Nov-19
Bowsiteguy,
Good luck with your surgery, brother.
10 year ago I suffered a nasty regular mountain bike crash. Class 3 separation of the AC joint in my right shoulder. I had drawn a coveted Bighorn Sheep tag that year, the hunt was only 2 weeks away. The doctors said that surgery was mostly cosmetic to eliminate the ugly bump that the separation had caused, but it wasn't mandatory. I opted to live the bump, so my bikini modeling days were over.
When the hunt came around I cranked my bow down to 50 pounds. It brought tears to my eyes, but I was able to draw it, only once, then I'd have to wait several hours before I could do it again. Of course, that was all against doctors orders, but it was a sheep tag after all. The injury prevented me from filling my tag, but that's a whole other story.
To this day, I still have to draw my bow at waist height, then raise it to shooting level, but that's no big deal. My point is, our bodies have amazing healing capabilities. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do something, until you've proven it to yourself.
Matt
From: swede
18-Nov-19
Thanks Nowiser. It sounds like the Orange seal would be as light as a tube and tire liners. I do not deal with thorns and briars much, so I think my liners should be adequate. Still I purchased a tire pump and repair kit. I hope they are a complete waste of money.
From: DL
18-Nov-19
Not an Ebike but a classic
From: APauls
18-Nov-19
2019 version...
From: Grey Ghost
18-Nov-19
Motors.....pffffft.....here's how real men do it.
;-)
Matt
From: Bowsiteguy
18-Nov-19
Oh, you got me on the wilderness thing, Jaq___, but I didn’t use a capitol W. You understand the difference, right? As you know many trails in fed lands in Idaho, at least at that time, limited travel to walking, horses, and motorcycles. Paul can tell us if it is still that way. Fat Cats and Big Wheels are still popular in Idaho. I am happy that there is a lot of enthusiasm for the ebikes. I am happy that a lot of you are going to have a lot of fun on them, but I had the feeling that “They are not for everyone,” was a whisper, and “Anyone can do it,” was a megaphone; and it should be the other way around. This time I was irrigating and did the really stupid thing of reaching down for a sprinkler with my left hand while pointing my Fat Cat halfway uphill. The farther I reached with my left the more my right hand opened the throttle until I was doing the "flying W" and crashed like a fool. That easy, that fast. How’s that, Jaq__ ?
From: Jaquomo
18-Nov-19
Thanks for sharing the story, and a good example of how carelessness and misuse of any tool can cause injury. You can poke your eye out with a toothpick if you don't pay attention. Perhaps others can learn from your misfortune. Hopefully you'll have a full recovery and can shoot a bow again!
BTW, "wilderness" is an area with a specific designation granted by Congress. I know the difference because I used to be a ranger. It is only capitalized when referencing a specific named wilderness area. As in Rawah Wilderness. Otherwise it's simply "National Forest" with a variety of vehicle rules designated by TMRs.
From: Bowsiteguy
18-Nov-19
Capital, not capitol. Sorry. “Wilderness" is also wild-ass country. But you knew that.
From: cnelk
18-Nov-19
Bowsiteguy it’s unfortunate that you may not be able to draw your bow again. But there is always rifle hunting. You may have to change your handle tho.
