Sitka Gear
Activated Carbon Hunting Clothes
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
SmoothieJonez 02-Oct-19
Franklin 02-Oct-19
Mpdh 02-Oct-19
GF 02-Oct-19
x-man 02-Oct-19
Bou'bound 02-Oct-19
Busta'Ribs 02-Oct-19
APauls 02-Oct-19
JSW 02-Oct-19
Slate 02-Oct-19
Ucsdryder 02-Oct-19
Grey Ghost 02-Oct-19
GF 02-Oct-19
Woods Walker 02-Oct-19
Woods Walker 02-Oct-19
Glunt@work 02-Oct-19
BIG BEAR 02-Oct-19
Woods Walker 02-Oct-19
Vonfoust 03-Oct-19
oldgoat 03-Oct-19
midwest 03-Oct-19
JSW 03-Oct-19
Grey Ghost 03-Oct-19
orionsbrother 03-Oct-19
GF 03-Oct-19
BowSniper 03-Oct-19
APauls 03-Oct-19
Grey Ghost 03-Oct-19
Woods Walker 03-Oct-19
Ironbow 03-Oct-19
TREESTANDWOLF 03-Oct-19
BIG BEAR 03-Oct-19
Slate 03-Oct-19
BIG BEAR 04-Oct-19
Woods Walker 04-Oct-19
Bucbuster 06-Oct-19
luckyman26 05-Nov-20
Bou'bound 05-Nov-20
OneBooner 05-Nov-20
PECO 05-Nov-20
spike78 05-Nov-20
spike78 05-Nov-20
Chief 419 05-Nov-20
Ollie 05-Nov-20
Scar Finga 05-Nov-20
Scar Finga 05-Nov-20
luckyman26 06-Nov-20
Woods Walker 06-Nov-20
WVFarrier 06-Nov-20
wv_bowhunter 06-Nov-20
Sand man 08-Nov-20
Sand man 08-Nov-20
carcus 08-Nov-20
jstephens61 08-Nov-20
Sand man 08-Nov-20
Sand man 08-Nov-20
greg simon 08-Nov-20
DanaC 08-Nov-20
DonVathome 08-Nov-20
Dale06 08-Nov-20
Michael 08-Nov-20
Sand man 08-Nov-20
DanaC 08-Nov-20
DMTJAGER 16-Nov-20
midwest 17-Nov-20
John Eberhart 24-Mar-21
sticksender 24-Mar-21
midwest 24-Mar-21
Bou'bound 24-Mar-21
KHNC 24-Mar-21
BRIBOWl 24-Mar-21
Bou'bound 24-Mar-21
WV Mountaineer 24-Mar-21
John Eberhart 25-Mar-21
John Eberhart 25-Mar-21
air leak 25-Mar-21
Jaquomo 25-Mar-21
Knife2sharp 25-Mar-21
Bou'bound 25-Mar-21
Slate 25-Mar-21
Rsquared 25-Mar-21
Knife2sharp 25-Mar-21
John Eberhart 26-Mar-21
Bou'bound 28-Mar-21
Shawn 31-Mar-21
Vonfoust 31-Mar-21
EMB 31-Mar-21
02-Oct-19
Does anyone have experience with using hunting clothing with activated carbon besides ScentLok or are they the only game in town?

Yes, I hunt according to wind direction forecast & morning/evening thermals. But on those days when wind is calm or variable, I'd like to know if anyone has and reccomends certain brand of carbon activated hunting gear.

From: Franklin
02-Oct-19
Buy the clothing based upon the material on the outside and the camo pattern. The "carbon" part is sketchy at best.

I have carbon suits because I like a fleece coverall that I layer under when hunting deer. Nobody seems to make these anymore other than some scent lock type manufacturers.

From: Mpdh
02-Oct-19
Used to be Scentlok and Scentblocker. Scentlok bought out Scentblocker.

From: GF
02-Oct-19
The technology has been pretty well debunked. But it’s your money...

From: x-man
02-Oct-19
If memory serves, that technology was disproven in court, which led to false advertising penalties.

From: Bou'bound
02-Oct-19
Never was real but they have some pretty pattens that do a good job. Ah how I yearn for the scentlock in the dryer days. It does not hurt or help

Now if you want to talk about the hecs suits that stifle the brainwaves or electromagnetic field there is something that has a bit more application but they are costly

From: Busta'Ribs
02-Oct-19
Saying a deer can smell a guy in a carbon suit is almost as dumb as saying a deer can’t smell a guy in a carbon suit, isn't it? I mean, how can anyone predict, with any certainty, whether or not a carbon suit will or will not help under all conditions?

From: APauls
02-Oct-19
John Eberhardt's take on the carbon is interesting. I still don't have any, but he does seem like a guy who does his research.

From: JSW
02-Oct-19
I have used both scentlok and scentblocker. Just like every other scent control product, it's not 100% fool proof. After about 20 years experience with these products, I can attest wholeheartedly that they do make a difference. There have been years where I got lazy and slacked off on the scent control routine and those are years I've had the worst luck. Keep yourself, your clothing and all your equipment clean and scent free. Wear a scent blocking clothing product including a face mask as directed. Spray down everything you can with a scent eliminator before you walk in. Keep your outer layer in a scent free bag and don't put it on until you are at your stand. Only hunt stands that have a favorable wind. Do everything right, every time and you will be more successful. I've found that if I do all these things I have considerably more deer walk downwind without spooking. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and I'll let you know how that turns out.

As for it being disproved in court. what does that ever have to do with reality. You can prove/disprove absolutely anything if you have a better team of lawyers and a favorable judge. What happens in civil court has more to do with talent and money than with right and wrong. Their advertising made it sound like it was 100% effective. If they would have toned it down and used different language, things probably would have turned out different for them. Just my opinion.

From: Slate
02-Oct-19
Gimmick

From: Ucsdryder
02-Oct-19
I’d you believe it works, then it’ll work. That being said, it doesn’t work.

From: Grey Ghost
02-Oct-19
You're better off buying a wool outfit, with merino wool undergarments. The scent eliminating qualities of wool isn't debatable. Its other qualities, like remaining warm when wet and quiet to the touch, make it the obvious choice to me.

Matt

From: GF
02-Oct-19
“If you believe it works, then it’ll work.”

What if YOU believe it’ll work, but the deer walking down-wind from you is a skeptic??

ROFL, Bud!

From: Woods Walker
02-Oct-19
Carbon needs to be heated to 1200 degrees to "reactivate". Even if you COULD find a clothes dryer that got that hot (you can't), the clothing would be ashes when you took it out. You got scammed Jeff! ;-)

From: Woods Walker
02-Oct-19

From an article by T.R. Michaels.........

"Bottom line, on this planet, using materials from this planet, and using the laws of science from this planet; it is impossible for your commercial carbon suit to work for you while hunting as you claim. Your carbon suit is fully saturated at time of manufacture, there is no method known to man for your saturated carbon suit to be desorbed, and the only methods known for your saturated carbon suit to be partially desorbed is greater than any temperature reached by any household dryer manufactured. Even if you had access to technical heating equipment to safely bring the temps of your saturated carbon suit above 212degrees F, it is a losing battle as you will have a continual loss in the ability for your suit to be partially desorbed. The highest grade sealed military unit is worthless beyond 1 use, 45 days of being unsealed, or 6 washings. Your commercial suit is worthless the moment it is manufactured."

From: Glunt@work
02-Oct-19
What makes bowhunting fun is that its hard to kill stuff. Not worrying about scent equals more fun.

From: BIG BEAR
02-Oct-19
^^^. Using that logic...... If you crapped your pants while hunting it would be a blast !!!! ???? :-)

From: Woods Walker
02-Oct-19
Uh...I think you would crap your pants BECAUSE of the "blast"!!!

From: Vonfoust
03-Oct-19
There are techniques available to increase adsorption of a garment after being on a shelf. They don't involve a dryer though, and I wouldn't believe for a second that it would ever fool an animals nose.

From: oldgoat
03-Oct-19
I used scent lol and found it to be complete waste of money, they are still going to smell your breath etc!

From: midwest
03-Oct-19
T.R. Michaels....lol.

From: JSW
03-Oct-19
Here is my theory on human scent and stand hunting. You have what I call a "cone" of scent travelling from where you are standing downwind for however many yards it takes it to dissipate, which could be over 1/2 mile. There is nothing you can do to completely eliminate that cone moving downwind and expanding as it goes along do to fickle wind currents. I want to do everything possible to keep that cone as narrow and vague as possible. I've seen it work too many times to not have faith in it. If you stink the deer will smell you sooner as they approach that "cone of scent". The cone is much wider and more alarming. If you are scent free they might actually walk through the scent stream without getting enough of a wiff to get alarmed. That might give you enough extra time to get a shot off before they wind you. I seldom hunt a stand where there is a good chance of a buck walking by downwind. I say seldom because I do have stands where a deer can and will come from absolutely every direction. On those stands I want to be as scent free as I possibly can be. I don't believe that the carbon gets saturated and quits absorbing. I have a set of scentblocker boot inserts that I've never put in the dryer. They are about 5 years old and they still take odors out of my boots. Maybe that's just all in my head as well. I also believe that a maximum positive attitude works about as well. If you are certain that you are going to be successful, you probably will be. I'll do it all over again this year and send you pictures after the hunt.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Oct-19
It's a miracle that any hunters actually killed game before the "scent-free" scam started (sarcasm).

In my experience, cover scents are far more effective than any "scent free" voodoo. I know for fact that deer love the smell of Copenhagen Wintergreen chewing tobacco. I've routinely had them walk up to the bush I've been spitting on and lick the branches. ;-)

Matt

03-Oct-19
I bought a ScentLock goretex jacket and think it was well worth it.

I think I paid $10.

I don’t believe in the “carbon technology”

I believe it’s a nice jacket for $10

From: GF
03-Oct-19
I agree with JSW that anything that reduces your scent will buy you a certain amount of time & distance.

And there is no doubt that confidence and s positive attitude are important to your success....

But mostly, I’ve figured out that the wind rarely behaves as expected...

That’s either a reason take every conceivable scent-control measure, or a reason to pay attention to everything you can and learn whatever tricks you can.... that DON’T come “in a can”...

From: BowSniper
03-Oct-19
While effectiveness can be debated, the lawsuit was clearly bullshit. It was all because the original add said "100% effective" when that is not the case... thus the lawsuit over technically false advertsing.

But the lawsuit never addressed if the carbon products worked at all, a little or a lot. Ambulance chasers can even be found in the woods!

The lawsuit was covered in better detail years ago here. And as I recall, one of the big anti-carbon guys was looking to market a competing product. Imagine that! Lol

From: APauls
03-Oct-19
Like JTV mentions, my understanding of it is that the activated charcoal has been proven to absorb scents. How often you activate it and exactly what % of your odor that it will absorb is where the question is. I don't think anyone will argue 100%, but I can't think it would hurt.

I used to get all freaky on my scent control, and since went with the idea that I can't fool them anyways, so why bother. Zero scent control, just hunting the wind. Now it's completely anecdotal and observational, but I feel like I got busted more often when giving up on it. So I'm prob working my way to a happy medium.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Oct-19
"Forget the wind, just hunt".....perhaps the worst slogan in hunting history.

Matt

From: Woods Walker
03-Oct-19
Yup. It ranks right up there with....."It's like throwing an axe through a deer!"

From: Ironbow
03-Oct-19
I agree with JSW. I have been using and experimenting with scent control products and carbon clothing since 1985. I was already interested in scent control and how to reduce it when a sales rep walked in my little archery shop and introduced me to Scent Shield. I was a complete skeptic until I started experimenting and trying it. Then when the carbon suits came out I thought it was a gimmick. I had a friend raving about them, I still wasn't convinced, then another friend with lots and lots of big deer on the wall said they work if you used them right. So I tried one and called in a killed my biggest coyote ever and he never winded me. That morning made me start experimenting more.

You can't just throw on a suit and go. There is so, so much more to it. I hunt with a friend occasionally that doesn't have a clue about scent control. I decided to try going without my carbon clothing. I still wore clean clothes and carried them in a plastic tote and put them on in the field. Had a small buck work his way downwind of me and at 40 yds came unglued and was still running 1/2 mile later. When wearing carbon clothing and taking all the same scent control measures, I rarely, rarely have a deer react past 40 yds. Up close on occasion they will get nervous and know something isn't right, but they don't blow out. I have 2 P&Y bucks on the wall I killed that came in downwind and never got me. Didn't plan it that way, bucks go where they want. In the old days that never would have happened.

I go to great lengths to keep body, clothes and boots clean. I never wash my carbon suits and use an old dryer without a sensor on it to "refresh" the carbon. They come out so hot you will get burned on anything metal. I figure I can get about 3-5 seasons out of a set then they are just good camo. I talked at length with Greg Sesselman who invented carbon clothing about decreased performance and heating and washing.

It is like any other tool, don't believe all the marketing hype and use it for what it is worth. It takes a lot of work to be scent free, far more than most guys want to do, but for me it is worth it because I have very few places to hunt.

Isn't it great to live in America and have all these choices?

03-Oct-19
Wind.... thermals... movement.

Pay attention to all 3.

That’s it.

From: BIG BEAR
03-Oct-19
I’ve got a pair of ScentBlocker pants with Trinity Technology..... Whatever the Sam hell that means. I think the company that made them went bankrupt.....

From: Slate
03-Oct-19
Still a scam

From: BIG BEAR
04-Oct-19
Maybe I’ll get a HECS suit. Dudley says they’re the bomb.....Then I’ll be invisible.....:-)

From: Woods Walker
04-Oct-19

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
If It Works For You, Then Go For It!
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
If It Works For You, Then Go For It!

From: Bucbuster
06-Oct-19
My son in law has a set. We were heading out for an afternoon hunt. He started giggling and asked what now?? He farted and just about killed us both...either he has nuclear powered flatulence or the carbon embedded clothing doesn't work...

From: luckyman26
05-Nov-20
I did not use such clothes, but I would like to, despite the fact that there is little information about this on the Internet.

From: Bou'bound
05-Nov-20
Sure you would

From: OneBooner
05-Nov-20
It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled

From: PECO
05-Nov-20
Combine it with HECS, carbon face paint, and one of those Ozonics machines and you are good to go.

From: spike78
05-Nov-20
John Eberhart states that for them to be effective you need to wear rubber boots with the pants over them, face mask that’s scentlock, and your back pack needs to be scent free and gloves as well. Most people just wear the pants and jacket and call it good.

From: spike78
05-Nov-20
Forgot to mention he also said they sent a suit for testing by a lab for their lawsuit and it was determined to in fact hold in scent.

From: Chief 419
05-Nov-20
"Combine it with HECS, carbon face paint, and one of those Ozonics machines and you are good to go".

You left out the most important gadget, a firefly wind indicator. You've got to have electronics to tie it altogether and be successful :)

From: Ollie
05-Nov-20
They can help, to a limited extent. If you are not 100% dedicated to scent reduction, forget it. Anything you touch (bow, quiver, arrows) or rides against your body (like hunting backpacks) will stink. Consider going on a vegan diet to reduce breath and body odor. Multiple showers each day. Manscaping to the extent your masculinity may be questioned. Still interested? Me...I’ll play the wind, keep myself and my clothes clean, and put up with a few deer scenting me.

05-Nov-20
Try Nose Jammer.

From: Scar Finga
05-Nov-20
Your breath goes down wind and is nasty to a deer/ elk, same with your hair and face and shoes you wore while putting diesel in your rig and while you ate breakfast your clothes absorbed all that wonderful scent! Hunt the Wind!!! I wouldn't use anything scented, but we all smell like humans no matter what! Spend 10 days in the back country without really being able to wash yourself or clothes! YOU STINK!! But So Do I! LOL

From: Scar Finga
05-Nov-20
Oh and GG is right, for some crazy reason deer love Cope and Skoal!!!

From: luckyman26
06-Nov-20

luckyman26's Link
I did not use such clothes, but I would like to, despite the fact that there is little information about this on the Internet. I have a birthday coming up and I'll probably ask my wife to give me these clothes. On my last birthday, I asked her to give me some great hunting boots, but instead, she gave me a bathrobe from matchinggear.com lol. In fact, I was very pleased, because I am sure that she tried for a long time to choose this gift and make me happy.

From: Woods Walker
06-Nov-20
Hey spam man....with 2 you get eggroll!

From: WVFarrier
06-Nov-20
Well....i will throw in my .02

I own a couple of the scentlok suits and believe that when COMBINED with a good scent control regimen, it helps. I tend to layer with under clothing that is saturated in baking soda. I also use baking sold on my hair and teeth. My boots and clothing are also stored in aie tight bins while covered in baking soda. Ive found that i get "scented" far less by using this particular method and i have killed a whole lot more animals since going this route. I still try to play the wind as much as possible but as a stalking hunter the wind is always trying to subvert me. For years i ignored scent control or only went half hearted into it and as a result harvested a lot of younger, less wise animals. Now that i follow a pretty strict regimen i have had some of the most exciting hunts of my life. Everything from deer, turkey, and bear bedding down within yards of me to having an old doe try to nibble on my ASAT Vanish suit. I realize that everyone has a plan that works for them but this definitely works for me. I havent had any luck with ozone or nosejammer either.

From: wv_bowhunter
06-Nov-20
I have worn scentlok clothing Since about 2006 or 2007 I believe. When I first started, I believed in the technology and took extra special care of it for the first few years.

However, as time passed my opinions changed. I now care for it as I do any of my hinting clothes and try to keep them as scent free as I can but do my best to play the wind and thermals, without relying on the carbon technology.

For me personally, I like their clothing designs and their sizing fits me well. So, for those reasons I continue to buy it.

That is just my own opinion. Like others have said, if it gives you confidence, by all means use that to your advantage.

From: Sand man
08-Nov-20
You can order a military activated charcoal chemical suit online.

They are cheap and back in the day they seemed to work fairly well when I used them.

Be fair warned if you order one.... There is actual carbon in the inside of the suit (top and bottom that button together) and it will get all over whatever you have on underneath.

Great option to try the original scent/chemical containment garment developed and issued to our troops.

From: Sand man
08-Nov-20

Sand man's embedded Photo
Sand man's embedded Photo
Here’s what I’m talking about

From: carcus
08-Nov-20
It doesn't work, at all

From: jstephens61
08-Nov-20
I guess my thought process is different. I haven’t worried about scent control, cover scents or lures in years. Used to be caught up in it, but then realized that around here it’s a waste of time and money.

It seems that in this area, there’s always someone out in the woods. Antler hunting, mushroom hunting, nature walks, squirrel hunting and then deer hunting. I really think that deer get conditioned to human scent in the woods.

Don’t get me wrong, I try to shower before I go out, don’t fuel up my truck in hunting gear, avoid eating in gear, that kind of stuff. I just haven’t seen that it matters all that much. Shower, keep my clothes on the back porch and go hunting.

Now, I’m sure it’s different in areas with huge tracts of timber where the deer don’t see a human until deer season, but in a farming area, to me it doesn’t matter. Also out west is a different story.

From: Sand man
08-Nov-20
I beg to differ.

I manage 3 wastewater treatment plants, 83 pump stations convey flow to the plants through the collection system.

A number of these have odor control systems that use ACTIVATED CARBON canisters that have automatic flush cycles.

When there are odor complaint, 9 times out of 10 it is an issue with those ACTIVATED CARBON systems.

Activated carbon. Activated carbon. Activated carbon.

By the way...these systems use ACTIVATED carbon.

From: Sand man
08-Nov-20
I agree, the attempt to eliminate odor is impossible.

However, if I can convince deer that my scent is either residual from some time ago or that the scent is coming further away...

I’ll take it.

From: greg simon
08-Nov-20
I killed 9 turkeys this year. Several of them down wind!! You just can’t argue with results like that!!!

From: DanaC
08-Nov-20
'Cover scents', scent blocking charcoal suits, ozone, sheesh!

Three words - MIND THE WIND. Be prepared to _not_ hunt your 'favorite' stand if the wind is wrong. Don't enter so your scent blows where you expect to see deer approach.

This is '101' stuff. '102' even simpler - don't be a sucker for gimmicks.

From: DonVathome
08-Nov-20
Literally impossible for it to work for several reason fyi, based on several facts. I believe lawsuits were won over this..........

From: Dale06
08-Nov-20
Wear it in combination with HECS and you’re gold.

From: Michael
08-Nov-20
I once farted in my sleeping bag and couldn’t smell it till I opened it.

Should I hunt in a sleeping bag? Or did I just happen to open it when the sweet aroma finally hit my nose?

Both very important questions that need answering of this puzzling situation.

Seriously I had a scent loc suit back in the day. After showering in scent killer soap and spraying with scent killer the deer still smelled me if they got down wind.

From: Sand man
08-Nov-20
So the perception I’m getting is other than playing the wind, there is no need to worry about anything else scent related? Let’s have a vote... I’ll mail out the ballots. :)

From: DanaC
08-Nov-20
Exactly. A friend of mine was hunting about eight feet up an old apple tree. Smoking a cigarette. A buck came by, he parked the butt, shot the deer, then finished his smoke. Wind direction is key, all else is bullsnot. ;-)

From: DMTJAGER
16-Nov-20
First let me begin with saying a mature buck four years in age let alone older is an entirely different animal as compared to any other younger buck. So strongly do I believe that a mature buck differs so greatly in his habits and behaviors I have often said they deserve to be regarded as a subspecies of deer. If you hunt pressured deer herds and trust me deer on small tracts of private land (I'm speaking of under 20-40 acres of actual habitat)in areas of heavy hunting pressure that I hunt don't get much better odds than public ground bucks and mature 4 year and older bucks are what you seek you need to have your scent control down absolutely stone cold Having said all that, I am among the desenters when it comes to activated charcoal suits. I not only believe they work I know they work. All those who say they do not, are the same a I am, 100% fully entitled to their beliefs and opinions and I absolutely respect that right. I will not attempt to change your opinions and please do not try to change mine. I will not get into a long drawn out debate with anyone of your counter arguments requiring I make a counter argument of my own. Let us as they say agree to disagree. Here are my experienced based beliefs on using activated charcoal suits to reduce your scent to the point a mature buck will not smell you strongly enough to flee before giving you a shot. If you use activated charcoal suits exactly as directed complete with Head/mouth covering and keep all other items you take with you hunting trips also scent free activated charcoal suits will work. I know they do because I've seen them work to many times not to.

The single biggest achilles heal with activated charcoal suits and or under garments IF you use them as directed and keep their exterior contamination free of scents, are NOT with the suits themselves, rather its with what you bring with while you hunt that gets you winded. If you bring with you bow hunting a pack that has spent the last few hours let alone days after being de-scented not in an air tight storage tote and sitting out getting contaminated by an endless number of scents and if you handle this same pack with your bare hands and then take it with you no amount of activated charcoal clothing is going to stop you from getting scented by any deer let alone by a mature buck 4 years old or older. I bring as little equipment as I can with me while bow hunting and what I do bring I go to great lengths to see its made from any material other than fabric and all equipment I do bring spends several week long periods out of doors getting de-scented prior to use. I wear only rubber boots I buy at least 4 months to air them out prior to use. Same go's for my packs. In short activated charcoal suits can not eliminate the odors on the pack you bring with that spent the last few hours let alone days or weeks picking up contaminating odors from your vehicle, home or garage. Same rules apply to all other items you bring with. If they are not scent free the scent they carry and not you but will get you winded by the deer. Yes I realize it means several of anything that could carry scent into the woods with you, but I am here to tell you if you do your part activated charcoal suits will do their part. No one reading this need believe me and you can say I am 100% absolutely wrong and that is 100% absolutely fine with me. I am in no way whatsoever trying to change anyone's opinion of activated charcoal suits, I am simply sharing my beliefs and nothing more. There is one thing we hunters can ALL agree on though. And that is the fact the wind is a complicated thing with many many different factors affecting it an any given time on any given day and rarely if ever consistently blows in one direction for hours on end let alone all day long and how it affects spreading our scent is affected by a large number of factors the vast majority of which are out of our control. Factors like temperature, humidity all types of land features, like trees and topography like hills and valleys and thermals in the morning and evening thermals also have a significant affect on how wind behaves and carries our scent. I look at at like this. If I can use activated charcoal suits to reduce my scent to the point I won't get winded I will do so. I really have nothing to loose by doing so other than some of my cabela's points.

I respect you opinions on activated charcoal suits and ask you do the same for mine.

From: midwest
17-Nov-20

24-Mar-21
I struggle to comprehend how so many bow hunters just can't wrap their minds around just how effective activated carbon is at adsorbing molecules of all types including human odor molecules. Hunters totally dismiss these FACTS that are undisputed: -Why does every military on the face of the earth uses activated carbon in their chemical warfare suits so that the harmful and deadly chemical molecules never reach the soldiers bodies and kill them? During WW I thousands of soldiers and in 2013 thousands of civilians and fighters were killed in Syria by chemical warfare. Chemical warfare suits and gas masks worldwide use activated carbon technology to adsorb these fatal chemical molecules. When soldiers went into Bagdad during the Iraq war, they wore chemical warfare suits because it was believed that Sadam Husein would use chemical warfare. Are the scientists that came up with the use of activated carbon in these suits stupid and if they didn't work during WWI and II and in many military situations beyond that, why are they still using the same technology nearly 100 years later. Maybe you smart bowhunters can call the Governments around the world and tell them that activated carbon doesn't work and they should only attack according to the wind direction and they could carry little pouches of milkweed for current wind verification. Of course just like getting busted during a hunt, but in this case it would be death to the soldiers if there were swirling winds and thermals that brought the chemical molecules to them. -Why does every hospital in modern countries and every EMT vehicle on the road use activated carbon tablets for patients that have swallowed poisons? Are they so stupid to know that activated carbon doesn't serve any function or do you maybe think they know more than you do and want to save lives. -Why does NASA use activated carbon as filters in their space suits? Maybe you activated carbon naysayers should call NASA and tell them they don't have a clue. -Why do Governmental bodies around the world and worldwide industries and manufacturers use activated carbon for: purifying drinking water, purifying gas, gold purification, sewage treatment, purifying volatile organic compounds, adsorbing radon for testing air quality, decaffeination processes, metal extraction, refrigerant gas adsorption, gas mask filtration systems, paint respirator filters, filters in compressed air, dry cleaning processes, automobile filtration systems, gasoline dispensing operations, groundwater remediation, for oral ingestion in hospitals worldwide to treat overdose patients, in intensive care units to filter harmful drugs from the bloodstream of poisoned patients, to adsorb mercury emissions from coal power stations and medical incinerators, for filtering vodka and whiskey of organic impurities, and being researched by the US Dept. of Energy to store natural and hydrogen gas. -Why in 2007 did West-Flanders University in Belgium research (with real scientists in labs, not close minded bowhunters) water treatment after festivals and in 2008 their studies led to the building of an activated carbon installation at the Dranouter music festival with plans to utilize the activated carbon technology for water purification for at least the next 20 years. -Why is activated carbon used in Intensive Care Units to filter harmful drugs from the blood stream of poisoned patients. -Why are activated carbon tablets sold as an over-the-counter-drug to treat diarrhea, indigestion, and flatulence. -Why does both the American College and Webster’s dictionaries define the word ADSORB as: “to gather a gas, liquid, or dissolved substance, on a surface in a condensed layer, as when charcoal adsorbs or sucks in gases”.

In actual science laboratories scanning electron microscope evaluations have shown that if all the surface areas of the primary, secondary, tertiary pores, and exterior surface of each particle of activated carbon were flattened and laid on a surface: -The total surface area from a single gram of activated carbon particles would cover 2.17 tennis courts. -The total surface area from a single tablespoon of activated coconut carbon particles would cover over 3 ½ football fields. -The total surface area from 1 pound of activated carbon particles (a small butter tub) would cover an area equal to that of approximately 100 acres (more than a half mile in length and a quarter mile in width). These are FACTS, not hyperbola. The amount of adsorptive surface area of activated carbon is why it’s the most adsorptive substance known to man and why it’s used in literally thousands of filtration and adsorptive applications. To shed some TRUE FACTS on this drinking the Kool Aid post, several years ago ScentLok was in fact sued by several hunters from Minnesota for false advertising and in an independent science laboratory at Rutgers University a totally non-biased science staff PROOVED for a United States District Court that ScentLok garments worked as advertised and was able to be re-generated, or what many incorrectly refer to as re-activated. The correct terminology is de-adsorbed. The next two paragraphs were taken directly from the District Court’s stipulation dismissal ruling. “Expert scientific testing found that, using highly elevated odor concentrations that were likely ten thousand fold greater than a human body could produce in the course of 24 hours, ScentLok carbon lined clothing blocked or adsorbed 96 to 99 plus percent of odor compounds, and essentially 100% of surrogate body odor compounds”. “Expert testing also found that after drying, or washing and drying, ScentLok carbon fabrics continue to be highly effective at blocking odor permeation”. Think about that, 10,000 times more odor molecules that a human body could produce in a 24 hour time frame and the suit still adsorbed 96 to 99%. That is a FACT. -Just as NASA, auto industry, U. S. Dept. of Energy, hospitals worldwide, and every Dept. of Defense in the world didn’t pull activated carbon out of a hat and say, hey let’s use this stuff, neither did ScentLok when they applied for and received the U. S. patent to use it in hunting garments. ScentLok owns the US patent on using activated carbon in hunting garments and if another company wants to use activated carbon, they have to be approved by ScentLok and pay a royalty to ScentLok to do so. US patent law prohibits it's use without ScentLok's approval and ScentLok has had to protect their patents with litigation on several occasions against other clothing manufacturers. So of course other hunting clothing manufacturers, all the scent eliminating spray companies, companies using relatively worthless anti-microbial treatments on garments, pro staffers, hypocritical TV personalities that get paid big dollars to endorse other stuff, and of course hunters from talk forums that say activated carbon doesn't work will all remain on the negative side of the reality of activated carbon for several reasons. Companies want to sell their own products so they knock the hard reality of activated carbon, pro staffers want to please the companies they are on staff for so they knock the technology while knowing absolutely nothing about it, and of course the TV guys will say anything to make a buck as the companies that sponsor them are basically their full time employer's. It’s very simple, if a hunting garment doesn’t have a ScentLok hangtag, it doesn’t contain what ScentLok calls Carbon Alloy which is a layering mix of activated coconut carbon, treated carbon (treated carbon is activated carbon that goes through an additional process to change the pore structure for differing sized molecules) and a small amount of Zeolite. Activated carbon technology has been around since the 1800’s and to me its implementation by ScentLok into hunting garments in the early 1990’s has been the most significant development to bowhunting since the compound bow. There is however much confusion concerning what activated carbon is, what is the process to create it and how and to what extent it can be de-adsorbed for continued hunting purposes? Activated carbon is produced from carbonaceous materials like nutshells, wood and coal. Differing carbonaceous materials have differing pore sizes and structures. The general activation process of carbonaceous materials involves heating those materials to 1450 degree Fahrenheit or higher while the materials are under pressure. ScentLok chose activated carbon derived from coconut shells because its variations of pore structures and sizes are best suited for human odor sized molecules. Through the activation heating procedure all the exterior and interior pore surface areas becomes charged, meaning it has electrons that readily interact with surrounding molecules and as molecules in the immediate environment near the charged activated carbon particles they are drawn into the carbon pores or onto the carbon particles surface and held with a weak Van der Waals bond named after the man that discovered the process. This bond lightly holds the molecules and for hunting garment purposes, keeps them from passing or permeating through the garment into the outside environment beyond the garment. This is the exact same way a chemical warfare suit works, it adsorbs the human molecules from passing through while also adsorbing the chemical molecules from passing through from the exterior side of the suit. Activated carbon adsorption of human odor molecules is a physical process, in that there is a weak bond with the carbon which allows for partial de-adsorption under low temperatures. The commonly used term reactivation has been wrongly used in the hunting marketplace. No matter the amount of molecular saturation a carbon lined garment would have, total reactivation would require the garment to again go through the 1450 degree activation heat process while under pressure, which would bring the saturated carbon back to its original pristine (no bonded molecules) state. Obviously for fabric garments, that isn’t going to happen. For activated carbon lined garments, the terms partial regeneration or partial thermal de-adsorption are more accurate. To serve hunter’s needs 100% industrial reactivation (pristine state) is not required for continued use for hunting purposes. When activated carbon garments are heated at household dryer temperatures (125 to 175 degrees Fahrenheit), the weakly bonded human odor molecules as well as the carbon become more energetic. The higher the temperature of the dryer, the more energetic or rapid the movement of the adsorbed molecules as well as the carbon becomes. The more rapid the movement of both the molecules and carbon causes expansion or enlargement of both which causes a portion of the previously bonded and now more energetic odor molecules to break free of the light Van der Waals bond and eventually be sucked out the dryer vent. The easiest way to describe how the heat/energy, expansion/enlargement processes works is with commonly known and seen visual examples. Concrete highways, expansion bridges, and tall steel structure buildings, to name a few examples, either have expansion joints or take molecular expansion into consideration during construction, otherwise on warm or sunny days when temperatures are above 60 degrees the molecular energy would cause; constricted concrete highways to expand and buckle and steel on bridges and buildings to expand and bend, causing their eventual if not immediate destruction. The dryer heat/energy/expansion/enlargement process of both the carbon and bonded molecules is what causes partial de-adsorption. It’s partial because not all bonded molecules are removed and for continued hunting purposes, they don’t need to be. An excellent example would be a sponge. You can absorb water into a dry sponge until it won’t take on any more, then you can squeeze it out. Once squeezed out the sponge is still holding some water yet you can soak up a lot more again. It’s obviously a different process, but the end results work in a similar fashion. The moment activated carbon lined ScentLok garments are removed from the somewhat enclosed dryer the partially de-adsorbed activated carbon immediately begins adsorbing whatever molecules are in the environment. That’s why the garments should go immediately into an air-tight container or bag to limit the amount of molecules it can adsorb until further use in the field when hunting. Activated carbon can’t differentiate whether you’re hunting or not, it’s adsorbing whatever molecules fit into it's pores 100% of the time and storing it in an air tight container stops the amount of molecules it can adsorb. The activated coconut carbon, treated carbon and zeolite that make up ScentLok’s Carbon Alloy liner become a filter that adsorbs human odor and other environment molecules. Like any filter, or the aforementioned sponge example, it will eventually saturate to some extent, but can periodically be partially de-adsorbed for further hunting purposes. It’s not an all-or-none situation! It’s about having enough de-adsorption to be able to adsorb your human odor molecules for several more hunts before de-adsorption is again required. I've bow hunted in Michigan (most heavily bowhunted state in the country) for 53 years and have taken exactly 50 book bucks (31 from Michigan) and many others while exclusively hunting public and knock on doors for free permission properties and have never owned, leased or hunted a relatives or friends property and have never paid a dime to hunt anywhere and I don't think any other bowhunter can make that claim. For the first 35 years I hunted I paid100% attention to wind direction and there were years that I never hunted my best rut phase locations because the wind wasn't right on my days off and there were areas I just quit setting up locations at due to thermals and always swirling winds. These locations were typically saddles, draws, sides or ridges and along openings within timber when the foliage was on. Foliage acts like a wall and a small percentage of the wind would hit the tree line, turn and follow its edge and then swirl. That's the short story of playing the wind and I could write a chapter in a book on other issues I had with 100% playing the wind. Oh, and I used milkweed as far back as in the 1970's, so that is nothing new. I began using ScentLok in 1997 and it took me 3 years to learn on my own (Scentlok instructions leave a lot to be desired) how to properly care for and use ScentLok and what to use in conjunction with it so that I didn't have to pay attention to wind direction. Since 2000 I have paid ZERO attention to wind direction and I don't get winded. And anyone that tells me they hunt the wind and never get winded is a liar, unless they haven't hunted much. I've also done many seminars at Deer Expo's in Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin and many for other organizations and there are several common things that hunters that have used ScentLok and got winded with regularity have done wrong. I know that because I ask ScentLok questions to the audience. Here are a few: 1. They took the backpack they have been using for years in the tree with them and when they get busted, it's the suits fault. Wrong, the backpack is a huge human scent wick and they have it in the tree with them and have always said they never washed it. 2. They washed their suits. That is a no-no as well because ScentLok garments should be de-adsorbed in the dryer only and then go immediately into an air tight container or scent free plastic bag. 3. They wore leather or Cordura boots and either of them will allow human odor molecules to escape through the sewn seams. You have to wear clean rubber or neoprene boots and wear your ScentLok pant legs over the tops of the boots to adsorb whatever molecules escape out the throat of the boot when you walk or move your foot. Every time your foot moves, there is odor escaping out of the throat of the boot and the 12 to 16 inches of pantleg will adsorb that odor. 4. No head cover with drop down facemask. The TV guys can get away with wearing a stinky logo caps, having their faces painted to look really cool or having exposed beards. They can hve huge gaps in their scent control because they are basically hunting in zoo like situations where the bucks never get shot at until they reach full maturity. When there are no negative consequences with hunter encounters while growing to maturity, there are minimal reasons to alter their routine or to fear humans. When hunting areas with heavy hunting pressure you MUST wear a ScentLok headcover with drop down facemask because about 40% of your body odor comes from your hair follicles, mouth, nose and ears. They must be covered. 5. Just improper de-adsorption and storage of the garments.

It's not the fault of the hunters that bought ScentLok, it the fault of the messaging on proper care and use. I never blame hunters for not knowing how to do something because I don't know that they ever learned the proper procedure. I do however (for what it's worth) blame hunters for making unrealistic comments on technology and use of something that they know absolutely nothing about. I and many other hunters I know that use ScentLok correctly, never pay attention to wind and if you for one moment don't think that makes a huge difference in success, your just kidding yourself. And of course there are many bow hunters that hunt managed properties or are fortunate enough to hunt in very lightly hunted states and or areas that have taken many big bucks due to the fact that there are many in the area so they can make mistakes and still kill something big during the season. All the TV guys fall into that category for sure. Anyway, go for it because I'm certain many of you have argued this point in the past even though you're ignorant to the technology and how to properly care for and use ScentLok. Oh, and I do not get paid by ScentLok so don't respond with that or any dog tests because I have replies that will debunk that as well. If anyone wants to get several documents on care instructions, my scent regimen program for a hunt, technology, dog test and other things, send me an email to: deerjohn51@gmail.com and just say send me your scent control regimen.

From: sticksender
24-Mar-21
Calm down dude!

From: midwest
24-Mar-21
John is a whitetail killing legend and I would respectfully listen to anything he has to say. Whether you agree or not, you can't argue his results.

Good to see you post here, John! I've been enjoying your YouTube videos.

From: Bou'bound
24-Mar-21
It can’t hurt. Just don’t pay a premium for it in your camo.

Maybe the reason it is not embraced is that the information out there that denounces it outnumbers the Advocacy group by about 5:1. Heck even the manufacturers have backed off on the claims

Thanks for bringing this up it was getting boring around here and this thread may help juice things up for a day or so.

From: KHNC
24-Mar-21
HEX with Scentlok underwear and a plastic bag over your head is the best way to go. Only issue is you have to shoot quick before you stop being able to hold your breath.

From: BRIBOWl
24-Mar-21
It's all marketing which I find to be questionable I've killed alot of whitetails without .

From: Bou'bound
24-Mar-21
"I struggle to comprehend how so many bow hunters just can't wrap their minds around just how effective activated carbon is at adsorbing molecules of all types including human odor molecules. Hunters totally dismiss these FACTS that are undisputed: -Why does every military on the face of the earth uses activated carbon in their chemical warfare suits so that the harmful and deadly chemical molecules never reach the soldiers bodies and kill them? During WW I thousands of soldiers and in 2013 thousands of civilians and fighters were killed in Syria by chemical warfare. Chemical warfare suits and gas masks worldwide use activated carbon technology to adsorb these fatal chemical molecules. When soldiers went into Bagdad during the Iraq war, they wore chemical warfare suits because it was believed that Sadam Husein would use chemical warfare. Are the scientists that came up with the use of activated carbon in these suits stupid and if they didn't work during WWI and II and in many military situations beyond that, why are they still using the same technology nearly 100 years later. Maybe you smart bowhunters can call the Governments around the world and tell them that activated carbon doesn't work and they should only attack according to the wind direction and they could carry little pouches of milkweed for current wind verification. Of course just like getting busted during a hunt, but in this case it would be death to the soldiers if there were swirling winds and thermals that brought the chemical molecules to them. -Why does every hospital in modern countries and every EMT vehicle on the road use activated carbon tablets for patients that have swallowed poisons? Are they so stupid to know that activated carbon doesn't serve any function or do you maybe think they know more than you do and want to save lives. -Why does NASA use activated carbon as filters in their space suits? Maybe you activated carbon naysayers should call NASA and tell them they don't have a clue. -Why do Governmental bodies around the world and worldwide industries and manufacturers use activated carbon for: purifying drinking water, purifying gas, gold purification, sewage treatment, purifying volatile organic compounds, adsorbing radon for testing air quality, decaffeination processes, metal extraction, refrigerant gas adsorption, gas mask filtration systems, paint respirator filters, filters in compressed air, dry cleaning processes, automobile filtration systems, gasoline dispensing operations, groundwater remediation, for oral ingestion in hospitals worldwide to treat overdose patients, in intensive care units to filter harmful drugs from the bloodstream of poisoned patients, to adsorb mercury emissions from coal power stations and medical incinerators, for filtering vodka and whiskey of organic impurities, and being researched by the US Dept. of Energy to store natural and hydrogen gas. -Why in 2007 did West-Flanders University in Belgium research (with real scientists in labs, not close minded bowhunters) water treatment after festivals and in 2008 their studies led to the building of an activated carbon installation at the Dranouter music festival with plans to utilize the activated carbon technology for water purification for at least the next 20 years. -Why is activated carbon used in Intensive Care Units to filter harmful drugs from the blood stream of poisoned patients. -Why are activated carbon tablets sold as an over-the-counter-drug to treat diarrhea, indigestion, and flatulence. -Why does both the American College and Webster’s dictionaries define the word ADSORB as: “to gather a gas, liquid, or dissolved substance, on a surface in a condensed layer, as when charcoal adsorbs or sucks in gases”. In actual science laboratories scanning electron microscope evaluations have shown that if all the surface areas of the primary, secondary, tertiary pores, and exterior surface of each particle of activated carbon were flattened and laid on a surface: -The total surface area from a single gram of activated carbon particles would cover 2.17 tennis courts. -The total surface area from a single tablespoon of activated coconut carbon particles would cover over 3 ½ football fields. -The total surface area from 1 pound of activated carbon particles (a small butter tub) would cover an area equal to that of approximately 100 acres (more than a half mile in length and a quarter mile in width). These are FACTS, not hyperbola. The amount of adsorptive surface area of activated carbon is why it’s the most adsorptive substance known to man and why it’s used in literally thousands of filtration and adsorptive applications. To shed some TRUE FACTS on this drinking the Kool Aid post, several years ago ScentLok was in fact sued by several hunters from Minnesota for false advertising and in an independent science laboratory at Rutgers University a totally non-biased science staff PROOVED for a United States District Court that ScentLok garments worked as advertised and was able to be re-generated, or what many incorrectly refer to as re-activated. The correct terminology is de-adsorbed. The next two paragraphs were taken directly from the District Court’s stipulation dismissal ruling. “Expert scientific testing found that, using highly elevated odor concentrations that were likely ten thousand fold greater than a human body could produce in the course of 24 hours, ScentLok carbon lined clothing blocked or adsorbed 96 to 99 plus percent of odor compounds, and essentially 100% of surrogate body odor compounds”. “Expert testing also found that after drying, or washing and drying, ScentLok carbon fabrics continue to be highly effective at blocking odor permeation”. Think about that, 10,000 times more odor molecules that a human body could produce in a 24 hour time frame and the suit still adsorbed 96 to 99%. That is a FACT. -Just as NASA, auto industry, U. S. Dept. of Energy, hospitals worldwide, and every Dept. of Defense in the world didn’t pull activated carbon out of a hat and say, hey let’s use this stuff, neither did ScentLok when they applied for and received the U. S. patent to use it in hunting garments. ScentLok owns the US patent on using activated carbon in hunting garments and if another company wants to use activated carbon, they have to be approved by ScentLok and pay a royalty to ScentLok to do so. US patent law prohibits it's use without ScentLok's approval and ScentLok has had to protect their patents with litigation on several occasions against other clothing manufacturers. So of course other hunting clothing manufacturers, all the scent eliminating spray companies, companies using relatively worthless anti-microbial treatments on garments, pro staffers, hypocritical TV personalities that get paid big dollars to endorse other stuff, and of course hunters from talk forums that say activated carbon doesn't work will all remain on the negative side of the reality of activated carbon for several reasons. Companies want to sell their own products so they knock the hard reality of activated carbon, pro staffers want to please the companies they are on staff for so they knock the technology while knowing absolutely nothing about it, and of course the TV guys will say anything to make a buck as the companies that sponsor them are basically their full time employer's. It’s very simple, if a hunting garment doesn’t have a ScentLok hangtag, it doesn’t contain what ScentLok calls Carbon Alloy which is a layering mix of activated coconut carbon, treated carbon (treated carbon is activated carbon that goes through an additional process to change the pore structure for differing sized molecules) and a small amount of Zeolite. Activated carbon technology has been around since the 1800’s and to me its implementation by ScentLok into hunting garments in the early 1990’s has been the most significant development to bowhunting since the compound bow. There is however much confusion concerning what activated carbon is, what is the process to create it and how and to what extent it can be de-adsorbed for continued hunting purposes? Activated carbon is produced from carbonaceous materials like nutshells, wood and coal. Differing carbonaceous materials have differing pore sizes and structures. The general activation process of carbonaceous materials involves heating those materials to 1450 degree Fahrenheit or higher while the materials are under pressure. ScentLok chose activated carbon derived from coconut shells because its variations of pore structures and sizes are best suited for human odor sized molecules. Through the activation heating procedure all the exterior and interior pore surface areas becomes charged, meaning it has electrons that readily interact with surrounding molecules and as molecules in the immediate environment near the charged activated carbon particles they are drawn into the carbon pores or onto the carbon particles surface and held with a weak Van der Waals bond named after the man that discovered the process. This bond lightly holds the molecules and for hunting garment purposes, keeps them from passing or permeating through the garment into the outside environment beyond the garment. This is the exact same way a chemical warfare suit works, it adsorbs the human molecules from passing through while also adsorbing the chemical molecules from passing through from the exterior side of the suit. Activated carbon adsorption of human odor molecules is a physical process, in that there is a weak bond with the carbon which allows for partial de-adsorption under low temperatures. The commonly used term reactivation has been wrongly used in the hunting marketplace. No matter the amount of molecular saturation a carbon lined garment would have, total reactivation would require the garment to again go through the 1450 degree activation heat process while under pressure, which would bring the saturated carbon back to its original pristine (no bonded molecules) state. Obviously for fabric garments, that isn’t going to happen. For activated carbon lined garments, the terms partial regeneration or partial thermal de-adsorption are more accurate. To serve hunter’s needs 100% industrial reactivation (pristine state) is not required for continued use for hunting purposes. When activated carbon garments are heated at household dryer temperatures (125 to 175 degrees Fahrenheit), the weakly bonded human odor molecules as well as the carbon become more energetic. The higher the temperature of the dryer, the more energetic or rapid the movement of the adsorbed molecules as well as the carbon becomes. The more rapid the movement of both the molecules and carbon causes expansion or enlargement of both which causes a portion of the previously bonded and now more energetic odor molecules to break free of the light Van der Waals bond and eventually be sucked out the dryer vent. The easiest way to describe how the heat/energy, expansion/enlargement processes works is with commonly known and seen visual examples. Concrete highways, expansion bridges, and tall steel structure buildings, to name a few examples, either have expansion joints or take molecular expansion into consideration during construction, otherwise on warm or sunny days when temperatures are above 60 degrees the molecular energy would cause; constricted concrete highways to expand and buckle and steel on bridges and buildings to expand and bend, causing their eventual if not immediate destruction. The dryer heat/energy/expansion/enlargement process of both the carbon and bonded molecules is what causes partial de-adsorption. It’s partial because not all bonded molecules are removed and for continued hunting purposes, they don’t need to be. An excellent example would be a sponge. You can absorb water into a dry sponge until it won’t take on any more, then you can squeeze it out. Once squeezed out the sponge is still holding some water yet you can soak up a lot more again. It’s obviously a different process, but the end results work in a similar fashion. The moment activated carbon lined ScentLok garments are removed from the somewhat enclosed dryer the partially de-adsorbed activated carbon immediately begins adsorbing whatever molecules are in the environment. That’s why the garments should go immediately into an air-tight container or bag to limit the amount of molecules it can adsorb until further use in the field when hunting. Activated carbon can’t differentiate whether you’re hunting or not, it’s adsorbing whatever molecules fit into it's pores 100% of the time and storing it in an air tight container stops the amount of molecules it can adsorb. The activated coconut carbon, treated carbon and zeolite that make up ScentLok’s Carbon Alloy liner become a filter that adsorbs human odor and other environment molecules. Like any filter, or the aforementioned sponge example, it will eventually saturate to some extent, but can periodically be partially de-adsorbed for further hunting purposes. It’s not an all-or-none situation! It’s about having enough de-adsorption to be able to adsorb your human odor molecules for several more hunts before de-adsorption is again required. I've bow hunted in Michigan (most heavily bowhunted state in the country) for 53 years and have taken exactly 50 book bucks (31 from Michigan) and many others while exclusively hunting public and knock on doors for free permission properties and have never owned, leased or hunted a relatives or friends property and have never paid a dime to hunt anywhere and I don't think any other bowhunter can make that claim. For the first 35 years I hunted I paid100% attention to wind direction and there were years that I never hunted my best rut phase locations because the wind wasn't right on my days off and there were areas I just quit setting up locations at due to thermals and always swirling winds. These locations were typically saddles, draws, sides or ridges and along openings within timber when the foliage was on. Foliage acts like a wall and a small percentage of the wind would hit the tree line, turn and follow its edge and then swirl. That's the short story of playing the wind and I could write a chapter in a book on other issues I had with 100% playing the wind. Oh, and I used milkweed as far back as in the 1970's, so that is nothing new. I began using ScentLok in 1997 and it took me 3 years to learn on my own (Scentlok instructions leave a lot to be desired) how to properly care for and use ScentLok and what to use in conjunction with it so that I didn't have to pay attention to wind direction. Since 2000 I have paid ZERO attention to wind direction and I don't get winded. And anyone that tells me they hunt the wind and never get winded is a liar, unless they haven't hunted much. I've also done many seminars at Deer Expo's in Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin and many for other organizations and there are several common things that hunters that have used ScentLok and got winded with regularity have done wrong. I know that because I ask ScentLok questions to the audience. Here are a few: 1. They took the backpack they have been using for years in the tree with them and when they get busted, it's the suits fault. Wrong, the backpack is a huge human scent wick and they have it in the tree with them and have always said they never washed it. 2. They washed their suits. That is a no-no as well because ScentLok garments should be de-adsorbed in the dryer only and then go immediately into an air tight container or scent free plastic bag. 3. They wore leather or Cordura boots and either of them will allow human odor molecules to escape through the sewn seams. You have to wear clean rubber or neoprene boots and wear your ScentLok pant legs over the tops of the boots to adsorb whatever molecules escape out the throat of the boot when you walk or move your foot. Every time your foot moves, there is odor escaping out of the throat of the boot and the 12 to 16 inches of pantleg will adsorb that odor. 4. No head cover with drop down facemask. The TV guys can get away with wearing a stinky logo caps, having their faces painted to look really cool or having exposed beards. They can hve huge gaps in their scent control because they are basically hunting in zoo like situations where the bucks never get shot at until they reach full maturity. When there are no negative consequences with hunter encounters while growing to maturity, there are minimal reasons to alter their routine or to fear humans. When hunting areas with heavy hunting pressure you MUST wear a ScentLok headcover with drop down facemask because about 40% of your body odor comes from your hair follicles, mouth, nose and ears. They must be covered. 5. Just improper de-adsorption and storage of the garments.

It's not the fault of the hunters that bought ScentLok, it the fault of the messaging on proper care and use. I never blame hunters for not knowing how to do something because I don't know that they ever learned the proper procedure. I do however (for what it's worth) blame hunters for making unrealistic comments on technology and use of something that they know absolutely nothing about. I and many other hunters I know that use ScentLok correctly, never pay attention to wind and if you for one moment don't think that makes a huge difference in success, your just kidding yourself. And of course there are many bow hunters that hunt managed properties or are fortunate enough to hunt in very lightly hunted states and or areas that have taken many big bucks due to the fact that there are many in the area so they can make mistakes and still kill something big during the season. All the TV guys fall into that category for sure. Anyway, go for it because I'm certain many of you have argued this point in the past even though you're ignorant to the technology and how to properly care for and use ScentLok. Oh, and I do not get paid by ScentLok so don't respond with that or any dog tests because I have replies that will debunk that as well. If anyone wants to get several documents on care instructions, my scent regimen program for a hunt, technology, dog test and other things, send me an email to: deerjohn51@gmail.com and just say send me your scent control regimen."

I still question the second point in the first chapter of your post. Can you elaborate a bit on that?

24-Mar-21
Midwest x 2. Probably killed more deer then CWD. On public land to boot.

25-Mar-21
ScentLok has not backed off on there claims and I don't know where you get that info from. At one point ScentLok did have to omit the word eliminate from their hang tags because in the Rutgers scientific testing lab the activated carbon adsorbed 96 to 99% of body odor molecules (tests were performed using likely 10,0000 times more molecules that the human body could produce in a 24 hour time frame) and the court felt like the word eliminate required 100%.

25-Mar-21
From KHNC: HEX with Scentlok underwear and a plastic bag over your head is the best way to go. Only issue is you have to shoot quick before you stop being able to hold your breath. This combo could work IF, the user washed his Hecs suit in scent free detergent every time before he went hunting. When I hunt in the rain I wear a Rivers West suit as my exterior with a ScentLok Base garment or SL suit under it. I'm not a huge fan of ScentLok's rainwear and feel that Rivers West makes the best raingear (depending on the suit). Whenever I do wear a RW suit I ALWAYS wash it in scent free detergent after the hunt and once out of the dryer I will store it in an air tight container until I wear it the next time and I never feel as confident when I wear RW as my exterior as I do when wearing a SL suit and headcover with drop down facemask as my exterior. When I'm wearing SL I am bulletproof concerning getting winded and wind direction is irrelevant. A non carbon lined exterior suit (especially a suit with a polyurethane waterproof membrane which many hunting garments have because they cost less due to the import tariffs being 7% for a membraned suit as opposed to 28% for a permeable garment without a membrane) can get human or foreign odors on it's exterior and the carbon in the SL layer below it, can't adsorb the molecules on the exterior suit because the membrane will not allow the molecules to pass through it for the carbon to adsorb. A Hecs suit doesn't adsorb squat so it or any other mfgs, suit would have to go through the same washing process.

I'm an activated carbon user and it just so happens that ScentLok owns the US patent rights to exclusively use it or approve it's use to another mfgs. There is a lot of factual information on activated carbon and anyone can easily find it on the internet from worldwide industries, governmental bodies and scientific studies to name just a few. And I don't mean by looking on ScentLok's website for the info, I'm referring to searching the factual data elsewhere from sources that don't have a financial reason for spewing rhetoric and stretching the truth well beyond whatever the technology may actually be. I would never ever believe the information on any hunting manufacturers website because they can lie out their teeth and there is no policing of the legitimacy of the content unless they get sued as ScentLok did, and had to prove it in a US District court of law. I've been a sales rep in the hunt, camp and fish industry for over 30 years and have represented some of, if not the largest companies in the industry and the falsehoods that many manufacturers put on their websites and in ads to sell their products is so unbelievable dishonest that I would never go to any hunting manufacturers websites for scientific technology information. For mfg. information on models, items, parts, gear ratios, fishing line diameters, videos of lure actions, rod lengths and actions, color pictures of camo patterns, clothing sizing, % of rubber used in boots, insulation used, garment features such as pocket placements, collars, zippers, polyurethane membranes used, barrel lengths, bullet weights, velocities of specific cartridges, type of stocks, etc., I would go to their websites as these are all things that they can't lie about because once you purchase it you can see and touch it it for verification. Technologies used that we can't touch or see are totally different and they can lie to their hearts content on their websites and hang tags. When watching some of these TV shows do you honestly believe that a hunter can use a spritz bottle to spray what is basically sodium bicarbonate and water over his clothing and then not pay attention to wind. That is a total JOKE! Mfg's. are trying to sell their products and will pay TV personalities 20 to 30K a year to spew their rhetoric and they do it for the money as that is their employment. As soon as the next mfg. comes along and offers them more, they typically will switch and then that product is the best, the hypocracy is driven by the $$$. I've always been hesitant to believe in technology I can't see and any company that is selling anything related to scent control in the deer woods is something we as humans can't see so the mfg's. can try to lead us in with TV personalities, rhetoric on hang tags or falsehoods on their websites. Then there are a lot of hunters that say ScentLok is too expensive. Really! Ever cost out a Sitka suit, now those are clothes that are way overpriced with no technology. Sure they are made extremely well concerning fabrics and stitching, but I have sold hunting rags for over 30 years and I know a lot about all facets of how they are made, their fabrics and the insulations used in them and Sitka is extremely overpriced for what they offer. Of course the elephant in the room is that hunters want the name Sitka on their clothes because it has a cult following and many TV hunters are sponsored by them. Again, excellent made clothing and fabrics, just way overpriced for what it is. Bad Lands, Nomad, Sitka, Kuiu, Hecs and many other hunting clothing manufactures sell at higher retails than ScentLok and those other companies garments do not have activated carbon liners in them.

From: air leak
25-Mar-21
The only scent control that I use is, I shower before hunting. Because I like to be clean.

My outer layer stays in the bed of my truck, I take my boots inside and put on the boot dryer, I watch wind direction and thermals..

And if a deer gets a sniff of my scent and spooks.. So what.

I'm 64, retired, and hunt when I want. Life is really, really good.

Where's the fire?

If you want to be anal about scent, be my guest.

From: Jaquomo
25-Mar-21
What I have learned so far: Activated carbon liners probably do reduce scent to varying degrees so long as you keep it activated and cover every inch of your body, hands, face, etc.. and don't carry a pack. Also, there is a bug in this thread that prohibits paragraph breaks for some reason...

From: Knife2sharp
25-Mar-21
And why are scent elimination sprays still on the market?

From: Bou'bound
25-Mar-21
because people buy them. same with cigarettes.

From: Slate
25-Mar-21
Gimmick no matter who tells you otherwise

From: Rsquared
25-Mar-21
I wear it bcs it's great clothing,if it helps even a little then it's a plus. Same with painting your face or wearing a facemask. If it can help even a little, why not do it? Plus they have some awesome deals going on right now. It's not like it's super expensive compared to some of the other clothing out there

From: Knife2sharp
25-Mar-21
Back in late 90s early 200s, I'd wear a British military carbon suit, came shrink wrapped and brand new, top and pants were $20, and the camo pattern was like a Predator green. Can see it in my 2001 and 2002 trophy photos. The camo layer was a tight poly fabric that didn't fade like cotton or was noisy. Didn't have as many options back then, unless you wanted to drop some coin.

26-Mar-21
Love these posts

I don't use ScentLok and have killed a lot of deer - Of course there are millions of deer killed without using ScentLok. There were also many animals killed with spears by cavemen, what's your point? Being archaic and not taking advantage of technology is OK, is that the advice you give!

Or, I leave my clothes outside so they are clean. Really, anyone that knows anything about hunting garments knows that most hunting garments are permeable which means the fabric allows air (molecules) to pass through it. If you left a suit outside for 100 years there would be absolutely zero human odor molecules on or within the fabric. That is a true statement. However as soon as it is put on a human body, within a short period of time there would be human odor molecules passing through the fabric and into the environment. As long as your heart is beating and your blood is flowing, you are emitting literally hundreds of differing odor molecules through your skin and hair follicles. That is also a fact, so no matter how often you shower, wash your clothing, how long you keep it outside or spray it with sodium bicarbonate, your body odor will emit through the garment.

There are also areas where scent control is not that big a deal. In areas where the TV guys hunt and on large micro managed leases and private properties where bucks are allowed to pass by hunters for years before being targeted, scent control isn't a big deal because mature deer have a much higher tolerance of human odor because they have passed by it while growing up without consequence.

There are so many variables to deer hunting.

Every professional sports icon like Tom Brady, LeBron James, Phil Mickelson, Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps and Roger Federer to name a few, moved up the skill ladder to the next level by playing against and outperforming their competitor’s through middle school, high school, college and lastly by outperforming the other professionals they’ve competed with in the same sport to become icons. By the time they reached the pinnacle of their sport they have literally competed against and outperformed tens if not hundreds of thousands of other competitors while competing on the same courts, courses, fields and pools.

Think about it, every high profile TV and video hunting personality has never had to compete against anyone on the properties they hunt and in fact go out of their way to make sure of it. Yet a high percentage of hunters buy into what they instruct and think it will work in the pressured areas they hunt.

It is so easy where most TV personalities hunt that even their little kids kill monster bucks the moment the begin hunting. Are they seasoned and skilled hunters at the age of 8.

ScentLok works as designed for anyone willing to put forth the effort to learn how to PROPERLY care for and use it, most just don't want to have to do anything beyond their comfort level. Hey, if your killing animals and are happy with your success, keep doing what you're doing.

From: Bou'bound
28-Mar-21
Don’t you have to get it very very hot to recharge. Much hotter than any clothes dryer. Is that still the case with the newest technology

From: Shawn
31-Mar-21
Sorry but I call BS on Scent-lok. Look at the science not some guys rambling. Science literally says it cannot be re-activated and it is basically a one time use in garments. It's proven human breath and human hair produce more scent than most of the rest of the body. Sorry if you buy into the hype, you have been taken for a ride. I believe John is a great hunter, but I also believe he hunts the wind and would kill just as many deer sitting naked in his saddle and not having showered for a month. Shawn

From: Vonfoust
31-Mar-21
Bou, you do not have to recharge at the 1200 degrees that some like to quote. There are techniques that I was aware of in the early 2000's that easily got around that. In fact I have a shirt from 2004 that is still showing activity, if I could fit in it now:) I can only assume there have been advances since then. Whether you believe it is enough to fool a deer's nose is up to you. I personally don't.

From: EMB
31-Mar-21
Yes, it has been boring, and I have some of the stuff. I haven't used it in years primarily because it is hot. Did I say it was hot? I primarily hunt in the Southeast. Our season starts in mid August. It can be anywhere between 90-100 degrees. And it's hot sometimes into November and December. I'm sweating up a storm anyway, but putting that on just makes the hunt extra miserable to no real advantage (IMHO). I've worn it when it's much cooler, but I don't know if it works because I play the wind or try to at least.

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