I don't mind taking advice on how to make a stronger position in today's competitive IT industry from a guy that can't compose a coherent sentence. But I'd never take his advice on which bow to shoot. ENUF said.
These bows are amazing. I think people will actually prefer this draw cycle over the old cam. It has a smoother draw force curve through the back end and significantly more valley. These things tune in minutes with nothing more than an allen wrench.... Amazing
I'll be anxious to shoot this one as I did not care for the Reckoning Draw curve at all. Also, I want something between 6.5 and 7 for brace height. I'm currently shooting an SS and with heavy, winter clothes I notice a difference with the 6" brace. The Realm X pretty much hits my "dream specs" with a 6 3/4 brace and 33" a to a. If nothing "trips my trigger" with the new stuff this year, I'll go back to a Realm X this year.
Elkman, How is it you had a chance to shoot this bow? Since it wont be released publicly until Friday the 8th. Are you a dealer that ignored the "confidential" part of the bow shipment? Or , do know a local dealer that ignored it? It does look like a very nice bow. I look forward to shooting one when they are available. Seems like people always want to "leak" something to feel important. Just my opinion.
Kenny, a few posts up it says Wayne Carlton has been putting pics on FB. I know controversy sells to those easily drawn into the hype, but what is so confidential about a release date or a dealer shooting a new bow?
My 2015 Trophy Photos show a Hoyt as well. If you base someone’s equipment affiliations with 4 year old photos, you may be sadly mistaken. In fact if you look at a pic of me from two weeks ago and assume where my equipment affiliations lie, you may be sadly mistaken. ;)
"A legit question as I , along with a few others, would like to find the source of how this info was leaked."
Tip #1, start with archery talk.
"I know controversy sells to those easily drawn into the hype, but what is so confidential about a release date or a dealer shooting a new bow?"
Some dealers were shown the new product a few weeks ago, by their reps, with shipments following. Those dealers and their staff shot the new product and were asked to keep information about the bow to themselves. Casey could have easily been included in a dealer showing/testing session with a rep.
Bob....I default back to what is so confidential about this bow? That question maybe better directed to the manufacture. Maybe it's to align with a marketing campaign?? If so...I can see that to a point. However, this is along the lines of the new Mathews Lee Lakosky shot his big deer with on his thread from a few days ago....he couldn't show it. I think there is an element of creating a buzz or hype about the product via supposed "secrecy" by the manufacture. I guess I see humor in what I believe is feigned hype about a new bow.
Again: Notice I never stated a bow name, any specs, and details with regards to changes in technology, or anything else that was to be "kept under wraps". I didn't post those photos either. I don't see a problem with them being posted here as they are all over the Internet at this point, but I didn't post them. I was simply stating how amazing they are, and that in my opinion it is worth getting excited about and checking out when they ARE released to the public. I absolutely love my Realm X, best pure hunting bow I have ever owned, but I will definitely be shooting one of these new ones this year... Nuff said
I did see the thread on Archery Talk. Elkman is on AT as well. I was simply asking if he was the dealer that leaked the info early? There is/was a confidentiality request from the company about the new bows. Zeke(?) leaked the post on AT . I dont know who that is. Possibly, a friend of Elkman? He (Zeke) deliberately posted the bow with specs and information. And i have not seen anything related to Bowtech that Wayne Carlton has posted on facebook. Yes, a lot of companies do try an hype up a new bow release. It always seems like someone is determined to get all the info out early regardless. Anyway, it does seem like a nice bow to me as well! I have shot the Realm X the last two years and i will probably get this new one to hunt. I have a Reckoning and the cam adjustment systems is terrific.
According to the link to YouTube above. If you do the math, that’s only 321IBO. It may be very tunable but once I get a bow tuned I never touch it again. Poundage, arrows, broadheads, all stay the same. It’s a nice feature but I’d rather have another 20 FPS myself.
Held one in my hand today at the Archery shop, it felt heavy. I like the cam adjustment a lot. I did not shoot it. The Hoyt was right next to it. It felt better laying in the hand. I did not shoot it either. Also held a new Prime, weird bow with the double cam. Held the new PSE also. None of them felt amazing in hand, or looked amazing, or got me excited. I may have got excited if there was a left hand model in the store and I shot one. Not $1,000+ excited though.
I shot the Revolt X yesterday, next to my Realm X and SS. The Revolt X is VERY nice. A tuner/tinkers dream bow. Very smooth on the draw, no hand shock and almost identical speed wise to the others. For me, it was not worth a change, but that doesn't mean I won't end up with one. :) I'm very impressed with the technology on the cam system and it was much more "comfortable" to me vs. the Reckoning. (I hated the draw cycle on the Reckoning.) Between the Realm X and Revolt X, you are splitting hairs performance wise. If you are a tinkerer, the Revolt X is a dream.
The only problem I have buying anything other than the “big 3” is resale value. While there are some great bows out there that aren’t one of the big 3, try to sell one used. Now, if you’re a guy that is going to own that bow for several years, go for it. I learned a long time ago, if I want to try new bows every year, it can’t be anything but Bowtech, Mathews or Hoyt.
Carcus has this right. There is a HUGE difference in riser geometry here and almost no performance difference in the "actual testing" between the two. Making the Bowtech FAR easier to shoot consistently, not to mention the Expedition is worth about $10 bucks the second you walk out the door with it, and much much more hand shock/vibration=noise in the Expedition bows.
That's not just Expedition. Trust me...I've done it with Elites, Strother, Ross, G5, Parker etc. If you want to shoot one of these brands other than the big 3, go for it. Some of these companies make a GREAT bow. But don't think you're going to sell them. Getting 75% of what you bought it for is an anomaly...
ive shot Bowtechs for 10 years so i may be a little biased. That said ive shot all the new bows that have come out this year thus far and think the Bowtech is the best. Great draw cycle, dead in hand and super stiff back wall. The new cam system is cool as well and something i can get on board with. Ill be picking up a Revolt X for next season.
Resale value LOL, I'm not buying the bow for the next guy. I plan to use a bow for a long time, my current bow has been killing for 10 years. I'm an excellent shot, I don't need a new $1,500 top of the line model every year to kill deer.
Kentuck: I will say I wish they were closer to the 4.1 range on their weight, but also remember this is a 33 inch ATA aluminum bow we're talking about here. (And they actually weigh what they say they weigh) So I would say they are at or below industry average for a bow that length with regards to weight. We have taken the time to do actual weights on the offerings from Mathews and Hoyt for several years, and suffice it to say they are no where near what they claim. Mathews started lying about their weights a LONG time ago, and Hoyt began the practice in the last year or two... Something to consider
The weight of a bow has no bearing on my purchasing decision, as I affix front and back stabilizers and a fairly heavy sight to whatever model it might be. I want the bow to be very quiet at the shot. I want it to aim well - in the vein of a target bow. I want to have appreciable speed with a 450 to 475 grain hunting arrow. I am betting that most modern bows will meet these criteria, so I will have to shoot them all. (Just my luck!) I am excited to see how much better, if any, a new bow might be over my current 2010 Mathews Drenalin LD. Archery is the best.
I said a few things on this thread. He may be referencing this:
"Resale value LOL, I'm not buying the bow for the next guy. I plan to use a bow for a long time, my current bow has been killing for 10 years. I'm an excellent shot, I don't need a new $1,500 top of the line model every year to kill deer."
Quote: "It really depends on the bow and the year. I haven't taken the time to weigh the VXR yet. I would say it averages around 5 ounces to half a pound,"
I'm going to suggest that you didn't weigh any of the Mathews models that I did.
Actually, I haven't taken any of your bow advice seriously since you claimed one of the largest, long term, most successful manufacturer's flagship bow was a "... junk, toy bow.." While at the same time gushing about a bow that you now claim hasn't changed engineering since 2003.
I suspect your sales tactics became a liability to Hoyt and they dumped you. Now jilted, you're looking for a new leading lady.
PECO - you do realize the most valuable use you ever get out of a new bow is the first time you take it home and shoot it in your backyard and the next is the first time hunting with it.
After that, it continues to lose value to both you and the "next guy" so the longer you keep it, the less valuable it becomes. When you do decide to get a new bow 10 years later, you pay full price plus CPI increase rates instead of just cycling through one every other year or two. Value is not only limited to dollar signs...
You lost me HDE, but if what you are saying is that by using the bow the first time you are taking the most value out of it then I get what you're saying.
If some salesman convinced you that you are better off buying new bows and cycling bows every couple years as opposed to buying a new one every 10 years then...well...I have a position in sales for that guy. That being said, if you derive joy from buying a new bow every year or every couple years, or even every month for that matter all the power to you. It's your money and no one can tell you how to spend it. If it's worth it to you, that's all that matters.
HDE, not me. I'm not tired of my bow and enjoy hunting and killing with it just as I did when it was new. It's also not of the big 3 and not top of the line. And I bought it at years end when the new models were coming out. You and the rest keep buying a new bow every year or two, and I'll look hard and last years model you are dumping when and if I get ready for a new compound. Until then I'll keep enjoying my Diamond Black Ice. Killing a deer with it this season just confirmed my love for the bow and that I do not want, or need a new one.
Ambush= Jealous hater. Period. Hoyt is the one that got "dumped", and for good reason. And if you knew anything about the technical side of archery you would know what I was referring to with regards to the 2003 comment: That was when the Cam and Half was introduced by Hoyt (Darton Patent) and that cam was a rotary mod design and done significantly better than the current iterations with up to 5 cam sizes to cover the draw range in some cases. Also the Cam and a Half has gone through several great versions of itself, including the best versions that were draw specific. Vector- Z3 etc... And MANY years of changeable specific draw mods with 3 cam sizes to cover the spectrum within. They HAVE NOW GONE BACK to the rotary mod design only using 2 cam sizes in some cases to cover the draw range. (Ridiculous) All for dealer convenience at the cost of tun-ability and performance for the customer. Pull your head out dude. I couldn't care less what you shoot/think if I tried... Keep drinking the koolaide and they will keep releasing the same bows with a new rubber stamp on 15 year old technology and up charging "idiots" for the same bow as last year... Or hold them accountable and see if we can get the great company Hoyt was back. Why don't you look through all the forums on the internet and tell me how many threads you see excited and raving about the new offerings from Hoyt? You will see pretty quick this was about the quietest "launch" of a bow line in history. Literally no one cares. There is just to many companies moving forward in technology that actually matters to the average joe hunter/tuner to mess with a 4 and half pound carbon bow for $1,700 dollars. But you shoot what you want, because I know damn well I will. And it won't be a rotary mod hybrid cam from the early 2000s on a heavy for no reason platform. Good shooting...
Actually, I just read your rant about four times. With the ".. if you knew anything.." , "..pull your head out dude.." "..idiots.." and maybe my favourite bit of irony "..keep drinking the Koolaide.." , you don't have to answer my previous questions. At least not until you're over your period for the month.
Yeah... Ignore all the information and facts, and just keep hating. I don't know why I even bothered to type it. Like I said above: "Shoot what you want, I know damn well I will"... Koolaide for everyone! (D350 is a great bow for sure, but shoot the Realm/Revolt and you will see that's not the case)
Why so much division? They all have the same function and as the years pass there are less and less differences as technology streamlines performance. I personally have PSE, Mathews, Elite, Bear, and Hoyt bows. I use them all every year and they take turns during hunting season when the field configuration calls for a compound.
Come to think about it I do not see this much debate over which brand / model is best when it comes to bow accessories.
ELKMAN, you just don't get it. You're "The Boy That Cried HOYT!" (wolf).
Every year you come running into town screaming "HOYT, HOYT, all other bows are junk!!!" And now that they've dumped you, you expect everyone to just accept as gospel your new cry.
And even if you want to pump up whatever you get paid to pump, that's fine. But why the constant, shrill hiperbole against the rest? I mean seriously, why say stupid super exaggerated crap like ",,toy, junk bow.." or like above, "..not to mention the Expedition is worth about $10 bucks the second you walk out the door.." You sound like one of those real sleazy, used car salesman on a comedy show. "Yes ma'am, that knocking in the engine is one of the extra features in this fine model, and I'm gonna sell it to you for the price of the regular one."
And why is $1,700 for a bow so ridiculous this year when your line before was always ".. expensive yes, but you get what you pay for!"
As far as me drinking the koolaide, my two hunting bows are eleven and seven years old. And my last Hoyt still had those little round wheels. and teardrops.
Even your name ELKMAN, all capitals, is to draw attention and impress. Get over getting dumped and quit trying to brow beat everybody into believing your spin.
D350 yes. I also recently bought an SR6 and will use it as a backup. 350 is the better of the 2. It almost holds itself at full draw. The SR6 in performance mode, reminds me of the 82nd Airborne. Hard on the shoulders (draw cycle) and wants to go once you are at full draw.
I always laugh at the threads about how tunable a bow is. It should not have to be messed with. Set it up make a couple rest adjustments and a new bow should be good to go. My last 3 bows a Hoyt Carbon Matrix, a Mathews ZXT and my new Traverse all shot bullet holes in minutes and other than switching strings never needed any tinkering to shoot way better than I am capable of. Shawn
Set up and tuned four Revolts so far and they are all coming in slightly above IBO and very forgiving to spine changes, which in my experience and testing equals very forgiving to shoot. I still don't have my personal bow yet, but from what I am seeing we are going to get along VERY well. (They are measuring about 1/4" over on draw, same as the Realms)
For an older guy with shoulder issues, shooting the Realm SR6 against a Hoyt and Mathews was a no-brainer, this past summer. And it harvested me a nice bull and a nice buck. My recommendation for improvement is, for a camo pattern bow, 1/2 the front surface of the limbs doesn’t need to be white, spelling out the model. Guess the designer doesn’t hunt.
Spend $1,000.00 plus on a bow and have to paint it or color it with sharpie? Why in the world would a manufacturer of a bow feel the need to do that? You aren't targeting an audience who's sitting on the 50 yard line while your lining up at the end zone. Most people are only seeing the bow from arms length. The rule of thumb for viewing advertising text is 50' per inch.
One thing to keep in mind is some of the best camouflaged animals in nature include the color white. Leopard, Jaguar, cheetah, grouse etc... I've never had any issues with any logos on bows. But to be fair that stuff literally never even enters my mind. I could care less what a bow looks like as long as it shoots a perfectly tuned arrow.
Killed one of my best bucks with a borrowed left handed target bow. Electric purple riser and white and silver limbs. The buck did not seem to care about the color of my bow. Some guys are funny, camo bows, 2 of my last 3 have been black. Shawn
I have considered spraying myself. Just always kind of always liked the IDGAF look and feel of it. Back in the day several of my early bows required a good spray job. I ordered my Revolt X in the FDE color. If it needs a rattle can it will get it, but the limb logos are the least of my concerns.
The only real color issues anyone should be concerned about is wearing way too much of the wrong camo pattern (just to satisfy the feather in your cap brand show-and-tell) where you are obnoxiously silhouetted again your background. If you stand out to the human eye, you stand out to the animal eye as well...
BowTech was the first to bring out the Binary cam system. Only Hoyt and Darton is holding out with modified 1996 cam tech from Darton. Bear and PSE use Binary cams as some of the most recent to switch. Hoyt should jump in too.
I could care less about a bow company. If they provide the technology and "shootability" that I like then I will buy that bow. So, far Bowtech has been doing that IMO. I have a Realm and will shoot that until I can get a used Revolt X for a good price. They definitely have been pushing accuracy, which I think is way better than trying to get more speed.
Speed isn't everything, don't buy a bow because it's 5 or 8 fps faster with it's smaller more efficient cam system because you'll never notice the difference on paper or penetration. Look for tunability, accuracy, ease of draw and silence if hunting is your game.
Twelve years ago my brother asked me if I could tune his old bow up for him next time he came up for a visit. I said sure! When he arrived and we finally went down to the basement to tune up his bow, I grabbed my then year old BowTech Tribute, fully set up as I hunted with it and handed it to him. I said they you go you're all tuned up! He couldn't believe it and was happy as a pig in sheet. Fast forward to last weekend when he came up for a visit, he brought along my old Tribute to give back to me as he no longer could shoot a bow because of surgery he had on his back. It still looks like new and I seriously doubt that he ever hunted with it. I was as happy to get it as he was as it was one of my all time favorite bows. With a 7 1/2 inch brace height it was very forgiving and just shot where I looked and still I believe it was what lots of companies are striving to produce today, 13 years later.
huntinelk: I can only tell you down to 27.5" and on the performance side, but yes they are holding their efficiency VERY well at least down to that slot. I am shooting in a 27.5" slot (Measures 27-7/8") on 71 pounds with a 439 grain arrow and still getting 280 fps. That is very good speed for those specs. on a 33 inch ATA bow with a 6-5/8" brace. Slightly smoother drawing cam than the Realm X, and a little more valley as well. I don't love the more valley part, but I know others will appreciate it.
So far the new system has been solid. I have had no movement at all. Really liking the no wide axle thing on these. Never really noticed it on my Realm X but surprising how much more streamline these are. (and with wider limb set)
I've been shooting both my Realm X and Revolt X side by side for a few weeks now. I agree, the new system is very streamlined and "simple". I think I still prefer the draw cycle on the Realm X though neither is a deal breaker. I also seem to get into my anchor a little smoother with the Realm X. Some of this may simply be familiarity with a system. None the less, the new Bowtech is a huge win.
I don't know if you guys have seen it on these new bows but Bowtech is offering an old school woodlands camo that is absolutely awesome and retro looking. I wish I would have seen one in person before ordering.
What do all you Bowtech aficionados think of the new for 2020 Bowtech Revolt with the adjustable cams? Been saving now for 5 years in the event somebody came out with a bow I personally felt was worth the cost and the revolt just might be it.
The fact that Bowtech is the only bow we are still talking about is good enough for me. No one is talking about the new Hoyt or Mathews. I'm not looking for a new bow yet, but when I do, I hope this new technology trickles down to Diamond.
One thing of note for those thinking of buying one of these: They are running approximately 1/4 inch long. No issue, just something to consider. Most other companies are running significantly longer. The Realms are also about 1/4" over
I have the Revolt in 28.5" draw and find it accurate, solid back wall and steady on hold. I did drop down to 50 lbs but am still disappointed with the lack of speed. Maybe I expect too much. I would ask to chrono it before the purchase. GL!
Still liking my Revolt X after a couple months. No complaints here about speed. I get 13 fps faster than my Spyder 34 at 29.5 inch draw with 450 grain arrows. My initial impression was it was pretty torque sensitive. I was spraying my arrows left and right more than usual. Tried torque tuning it by moving the rest back. Seemed to find a sweet spot about 3/16ths off the riser that cut the spraying way down.
Picked up my Revolt X 3 weeks ago( Mid C-19, posed some issues in itself) and although a tad heavy I love this bow...just seems to fit me like no other has for quite a while. Christened it 5 days ago with a big Tom...good things to come from this unit. Carry On....
We are having ZERO issues hitting IBO on all draw lengths on the Revolts. My bow is set at a true 28 inch draw, with 439 grain ACC at 69.87 pounds and I am hitting 281 fps. Well over calculated IBO. (Revolt X)
I got the revoltx home, wow am i pleased, draws nicer, is more dead in hand than my realmx, i love the fact that you have to almost push it forward to let it down, i have it in performance and will likely leave it there
With regards to the speed: My set Revolt X is in the the 27.5" draw slot on performance, and set up to a draw a true 27-7/8" inch. My poundage is 69.7 pounds with a 439 grain ACC with 15% FOC. I am getting 281 FPS with it through an accurate chronograph. If you run those numbers I think you will find it is doing quite well. I have set up and tuned a BUNCH of these, and every single one has hit IBO without issue. I have read the same things Ucsdryder is seeing on AT, but we have not had any issues with regards to speed. We did have one of the Revolts have a bearing go out on the flex guard, but other than that we are seeing great results. On a side not Bowtech's strings are showing very well for stock string sets. I would say the best we have seen, and they're finishes on their camo bows are second to none. I think they have hit a home run with this new tuning system, and definitely set a new bar for a home tuners ability to precision tune broad heads.
He set it up wrong, injured his elbow, good luck liking it after that, I set mine up, easy, then flipped it into comfort mode, easy again. The revoltx is a nice bow, fast, accurate, smooth in comfort, holds awesome, and most importantly to a hunter who shoots fixed blade broadheads, easy to tune! The other thing I noticed is the after watching all the review videos of the mathews vxr is it has a massive hump and dump, it hits the valley super hard, it looks to be worse than the bowtech in performance. This is the bow he chose, I was going to buy one but the fact that the draw cycle sucks turned me off.