Black Gold Sights - Pure Gold
Buy private land bordering public ?
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 02-Dec-19
ryanrc 02-Dec-19
Guardian hunter 02-Dec-19
Zim 02-Dec-19
t-roy 02-Dec-19
Glunt@work 02-Dec-19
JTV 02-Dec-19
fastflight 02-Dec-19
Pat Lefemine 02-Dec-19
Rth1229 02-Dec-19
BUCKeye 02-Dec-19
midwest 02-Dec-19
JSW 02-Dec-19
Bowbender 02-Dec-19
JTV 02-Dec-19
t-roy 02-Dec-19
Roger that 02-Dec-19
Trial153 02-Dec-19
leo17 02-Dec-19
drycreek 02-Dec-19
Rgiesey 02-Dec-19
IdyllwildArcher 02-Dec-19
Brotsky 02-Dec-19
Scoot 02-Dec-19
WV Mountaineer 02-Dec-19
JTV 02-Dec-19
EmbryOklahoma 02-Dec-19
t-roy 02-Dec-19
Brotsky 02-Dec-19
LBshooter 02-Dec-19
APauls 03-Dec-19
IdyllwildArcher 03-Dec-19
Bou'bound 03-Dec-19
Bou'bound 03-Dec-19
leo17 03-Dec-19
Trial153 03-Dec-19
SixLomaz 03-Dec-19
South Farm 03-Dec-19
12yards 03-Dec-19
bigswivle 03-Dec-19
KHNC 03-Dec-19
newfi1946moose 03-Dec-19
gobbler 03-Dec-19
lewis 03-Dec-19
Pat Lefemine 03-Dec-19
woodguy65 03-Dec-19
spike78 03-Dec-19
Mad Trapper 03-Dec-19
Smtn10PT 03-Dec-19
yooper89 03-Dec-19
12yards 03-Dec-19
Russell 03-Dec-19
Lost Arra 03-Dec-19
BigOzzie 03-Dec-19
Brotsky 03-Dec-19
Pat Lefemine 03-Dec-19
Charlie Rehor 03-Dec-19
Rupe 03-Dec-19
FORESTBOWS 03-Dec-19
RIT 03-Dec-19
Brotsky 03-Dec-19
Pat Lefemine 03-Dec-19
Brotsky 03-Dec-19
JTV 03-Dec-19
Jeff Holchin 03-Dec-19
Deerplotter 03-Dec-19
Sam S 04-Dec-19
timex 04-Dec-19
Hans 1 04-Dec-19
12yards 04-Dec-19
Pat Lefemine 04-Dec-19
Bake 04-Dec-19
SteveB 04-Dec-19
320 bull 04-Dec-19
Nogutsnostory 04-Dec-19
Outdoordan 04-Dec-19
12yards 04-Dec-19
Shawn 04-Dec-19
South Farm 04-Dec-19
CAMP DAVID 04-Dec-19
Bou'bound 04-Dec-19
BRIBOW 04-Dec-19
Shawn 04-Dec-19
mn_archer 04-Dec-19
12yards 05-Dec-19
Highlife 05-Dec-19
LBshooter 05-Dec-19
mn_archer 05-Dec-19
Pat Lefemine 05-Dec-19
CAS_HNTR 05-Dec-19
IdyllwildArcher 05-Dec-19
Shiras42 05-Dec-19
IdyllwildArcher 05-Dec-19
Pat Lefemine 05-Dec-19
Buckhunter 05-Dec-19
Buckhunter 05-Dec-19
IdyllwildArcher 05-Dec-19
spike78 05-Dec-19
spike78 05-Dec-19
From: Pat Lefemine
02-Dec-19
I'm on the hunt for land in either Ohio or Kentucky. I love my NY land but with the 6 week gun season and 200" of snow I need something that has better potential.

I have my budget nailed down, and my non-negotiables for what I'm looking for. Narrowing down the visit list.

One of the properties I found looks perfect. Has a nice cabin, tons of food plots already in place, QDM practiced for a decade, and tons of deer photos. The downside is that 75% of it borders public land. I always said I would not border public because trespassing and guys sitting on my borders will drive me absolutely nuts.

But that's based on experiences in PA, NY and CT. Maybe OH is different?

Curious to hear your thoughts?

From: ryanrc
02-Dec-19
Why they selling? Are they sick of trespassing?

02-Dec-19
I live in Ohio and do business with outfitters here. I also have leases. Trespassing is something that drives us all crazy too. The properties that are the smallest in my holdings give me very little problems. We see big deer in these often. Hard for someone to but these places as they cannot go undetected. If you don't have a care taker while you are gone from your property you can expect interference. A lot of good people here but allnit takes is a couple of bad apples and there goes your season. Go buckeyes!

From: Zim
02-Dec-19
Pat, I am fortunate enough to be able to hunt my family's farm in Ohio which is a checkerboarded layout of many parcels that range in size from narrow strips (less than 10 acres) to hundreds of acres. I've been running trail cameras religiously for more than 5 years now and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, trespassers are an unfortunate reality (and my family's land is surrounded entirely by other private land). No matter what, if your property has deer, it WILL have trespassers. Its simply a fact of life. When you have people that love to hunt but don't have access, a certain faction of them will trespass if they think they can get a shot at a nice buck. I have pictures proving so year after year.

Further to the point, I took a whitetail hunting seminar in South East Iowa a few years back and the market there is full of farms that are purchased for the sole purpose of growing big bucks, so much so that often times the landowners pay farmers to plant corn that is never harvested. It provides cover and late season food which is then tilled over the next spring, at which point the cycle repeats. Even with those guys, some of which have full time property managers and clearly spare no expense, they still have issues with trespassers and have had record book bucks shot out from under them. My point being, this isn't an "Ohio" thing, it's an everywhere thing…

Given this, when you described your property, I actually view the fact that it butts up against public as being a positive. All things being equal, you will have trespassers either way, so why not buy a parcel that gives you the chance to hang your stand/saddle on public if you just happen to find a better setup for a booner that hops back and forth? Just a thought, though I suspect some guys will harp on me for that perspective. Good luck

From: t-roy
02-Dec-19
“Maybe Ohio is different?”

That’s a good one, Pat! I think you could put any state name in your question, and I’d almost guarantee you the answer would be the same. Unless this property has wide buffer of open land between the properties, ie...no trees at all, there’s no way I’d pull the trigger on this property, especially with you living a good distance away.

From: Glunt@work
02-Dec-19
Out west, most of us are looking for pieces that do border public because most of our species require a bigger chunk of land than is reasonable to afford for average folks. For a whitetail spot in the midwest, I would rather not border public unless that border is a long way from public access.

From: JTV
02-Dec-19
I once looked at a lease that bordered one of our State F&W properties... that land would be surrounded by ladderstands come deer season set up on the state lands ... I said nope, I'll pass

From: fastflight
02-Dec-19
I think it depends on how the private you are thinking about buying and the public sit in relation to each other and where the parking is for the public. I can picture a situation where your private wouldnt be affected much by trespassing and you actually get more land to hunt as long as the public parking is a good distance away on large parcels. If your private and the public are smaller parcels with parking close to the private then I would avoid it.

From: Pat Lefemine
02-Dec-19
I must be blessed with my NY property. I have only caught one trespasser in 8 years and I knew him. A simple text and he never did it again. I am completely surrounded by private land. Trespassing never happens!

Probably because NY State hunting sucks so bad!

From: Rth1229
02-Dec-19
I live in SW Kentucky right on the Tennessee line. My house is the last house before you cross into TN and I’m surrounded on 2 sides by regulated public hunting. I only own a sliver, 42 acres that I hunt on and I haven’t had a problem with trespassers but the closest road to the property inside the federal property behind the house is well over a mile. I think it benefits me having low pressure back there deer seem more relaxed and there is definitely deer that come off it to feed in the ag fields around me. If you find something you like jump on it from what I’ve experienced the land doesn’t last long especially if it’s got a cabin or some type of living arrangement on it. So I guess to answer your question is it would just have to be the right fit for you and what your expectations are for it. Good luck on your new endeavor! If your looking western Kentucky i know some good people around just shoot me a PM

From: BUCKeye
02-Dec-19
Right now is the time to find out with Ohio gun opening today. Can you hunt the public border this week and scout the pressure?

From: midwest
02-Dec-19
Troy, Good news! I didn't see anyone trespassing on your land while you were on Kodiak!

From: JSW
02-Dec-19
Pat, It could be great. I used to be able to hunt some land that bordered federal land around a lake. I also had experience hunting the public. The public was pretty good early and held some great deer. Once the rut started and the pressure hit the deer started moving to the private next door. When the pheasant season opened on the second Saturday of Nov. the private land was a gold mine. I killed 3 great bucks there in 4 years, all between November 7-9. Man I miss that property. It was really good.

From: Bowbender
02-Dec-19
Why not more land in PA?

From: JTV
02-Dec-19
if the access is hard to get from the parking to where your property line is, that could be OK as has been stated ... how many acres is it you're looking at Pat, how big is the public and where is the nearest parking .. ??

From: t-roy
02-Dec-19
Good to know, Nick! I heard scoot had car troubles ;-)

My experiences have been somewhat similar to your’s, Pat. For the most part, I don’t have too many issues with trespassers (other than Nick), especially during our bow season. Shotgun season can be a different story. Generally it’s usually just road hunters that are the ones I have occasional problems with. On the other hand, my buddy, with property that adjoins the public just down the road a few miles from me, had to constantly kick guys off his property, got stands and cameras stolen, etc.

02-Dec-19
Gotta find yourself a land manager, maybe give him permission to hunt it and in return he watches it. Someone local.

From: Trial153
02-Dec-19
75% bordering public in Ohio. Not just no but hell no.

From: leo17
02-Dec-19
As much as I’d love to say yes I’d probably have to pass. So many out of state guys hunt Ohio public land. You’d be dealing with a bunch of new guys each year that you’d have to throw out. Once you nail down the private landowners bordering you it’s much easier to maintain a working relationship with the same group rather than having to start over each year when new public hunters arrive.

From: drycreek
02-Dec-19
High fence the public, put a couple locked gates in it, open them when you hunt and hunt the gates.......... ;-)

From: Rgiesey
02-Dec-19
Would not buy land bordering public hunting land if privacy is important to you. Public land draws hunters from all over, I know because I went lots of places starting on public land and branching out from there.

02-Dec-19
No way I would ever buy land to hunt that bordered public anywhere except in elk country.

Trespassing would only be one reason. The other would be because there's lots of people who hunt on public and people kill 2 year olds on public and almost no one passes a 3 year old on public. Do you want to shoot 4-5 year old deer? Not only are the "neighbors" not going to wait that long (and many private land owners wouldn't either), but most public land is just plain hunted harder than most private, which translates into mobile 2 and 3 year olds getting hammered because there's more "neighbors."

From: Brotsky
02-Dec-19
You need to go further west Pat, lots further. I will not say there’s not trespassing but we are less removed from the times when they were shot on sight so it is a little less common. :-)

From: Scoot
02-Dec-19
T, you heard wrong! Ryan, 3 off his buddies, and 2 of my buddies and I met Nick and 8 of his pals and we had a blast at your place! We only killed 11 deer, but we hit 9 more. I didn't miss any because GG taught me to shoot instinctively and I limit my shots to 4 yards, because anything longer is unethical. I encouraged Ryan to fling at anything inside of 100 yards though. It was great!

02-Dec-19
If the access to the public land made getting to your border hard for the hunters who hunt there, I’d say role with it. However, if it was part of a land system that allowed atv’s, I’d likely pass. Unless there were no access for them close to the line.

Buying private ground that borders public land can be great. If the circumstances are right. However, know no matter the situation, not every one is on board with growing deer big enough for your standards. That doesn’t change regardless of public or private holdings bordering your boundary. But, With as sorry as most eastern deer hunters are, that doesn’t always equal bad news.

It’s the land of the crossbow. I’m certain not a lot of those guys are carrying the awkward things that far. Keep that in mind.

From: JTV
02-Dec-19
Esp. In Ohio, crossbow is king there....

02-Dec-19
Just don't buy land next to Jim's land and dump any corn close to the fence. He will call your ass out on it!

I kid... I kid!!! :)

From: t-roy
02-Dec-19
That’s what I get for getting my info from Brotsky, scoot!

From: Brotsky
02-Dec-19
Well t-roy I guess you only need to figure out who Scoot’s other buddy was now! :-)

From: LBshooter
02-Dec-19
I would go,with your first instincts, no borders with public land. How can you practice qdma if public hunters are shooting anything that's brown. It not a matter of if they trespass or sit on your borders it's a matter of when. I'd look else where for private land with no public bordering. You have waited this long , alittle more time looking won't hurt you.

From: APauls
03-Dec-19
If the property turns out to be what you hope you are guaranteed guys sitting the edge if not worse. If that drives you mental, well, then there’s your answer. If the property sucks, maybe no problem, but then the property sucks :(

03-Dec-19
"If the property turns out to be what you hope you are guaranteed guys sitting the edge if not worse."

And that guy is going to be ME. Doing a live hunt with pics of my boots and your land at my 12.

From: Bou'bound
03-Dec-19
we all share deer regardless so go for it if you like the land. you can hunt the public too and if you learn it well you have the benefit of a lot more access than you are paying for. people can only kill so many deer and there is a lot more left for others when their tag is filled.

From: Bou'bound
03-Dec-19
I like your strategy too. keep getting westward access until you get to Kansas.

start in CT, you have NY, and PA, buy a little OH, then tag on IN, IL, and IA and whallah you are in KS and you can just keep driving and hunting your own land until to get to Cimmaron each year. It;s like the Lefemine verison of Lewis and Clark.

From: leo17
03-Dec-19
Bou that right there is funny. I try and do something similar each year but it’s more like The dumb and dumber road trip.

From: Trial153
03-Dec-19
Public in Ohio sees way more pressure then public in NY or anyplace in the NE. Ohio is amazing to me, it’s unreal how good it is on private land considering the amount of pressure the state receives from residents, non residents and Outfitters that run tons of guys through the leases.

No way I would pay for property that will be subjected to the amount of pressure from public land on its borders.

From: SixLomaz
03-Dec-19
Settled then. Pat just PM me please the property info. I am interested in moving to Ohio in a few years.

From: South Farm
03-Dec-19
Pat, from the amount of work you put into your land, if I were you I'd run, not walk, from land that borders public property. Why put all that effort into your property only to have every Tom Dick and Harry setup on the property line and leapfrog your efforts? That's if they stay ON THEIR SIDE OF THE LINE...which many won't once they learn you're not there all the time. Might sound good on paper, but I honestly think it'll keep you up at night wondering who's sneaking in the back. I'd keep looking; the perfect property is out there somewhere.

From: 12yards
03-Dec-19
The only state I would buy private next to public would be IA.

From: bigswivle
03-Dec-19
Everything is public to all the KY residents I met when we owned our place in wester KY. “I’ve been hunting this place for 30 yrs, that’s not gonna change because you own it now” direct quote from my first encounter with a trespasser

From: KHNC
03-Dec-19
That is 100% true about Kentucky in my experience too! I constantly ran into GUN hunters on the BOW ONLY properties I hunted over the years. Reporting to DNR didnt even seem to help. Plus many of the so called hunters in KY are just plain thieves! Many great people in that state, but more thieving POS punks than i have encountered in any other state ive hunted.

03-Dec-19
Here in OK where I am there is very little land that holds decent-to-good deer available for sale. Most, if not all, ranch lands are leased and I have seen a huge amount of trespassing from locals as there is access from numerous off-road ATVs and trails. That being said is what I have seen just around where we live. Larger private ranches/land leasers heavily frown on trespassers. When I vanished from NNY in 2010, the quality of deer hunting had certainly declined. Go West, young man!

From: gobbler
03-Dec-19
I would look at the access into the public land . If it’s a couple of miles of walking to get to your border you will have less problems than if access is a couple hundred yards

From: lewis
03-Dec-19
We have 300 acres that borders an 80,000 acres wma.Very rarely do we have any problems due to the fact that there is almost no access to the property bordering our property.The property lines are 2 big creeks so if we have much rain they are pretty much impossible to cross.So like gobbler stated access to the property bordering you is key.Good Luck Lewis

From: Pat Lefemine
03-Dec-19

Pat Lefemine's Link
It’s off my list. If you guys told me Ohio public sees very little pressure during bow I would have done my homework. It would take a lot for me to buy land adjoining public but this looks so good I thought it was worth a shot.

Since it’s off my list here’s the property.

From: woodguy65
03-Dec-19
“Tons of deer photos”, so do they have trail cam pics of mature bucks in November and December?

Have you seen pics of quality deer they have killed on property through the years?

If the answer is YES and you would be happy with the quality of deer killed on property then I wouldn’t think the public border Has been an issue.

As others have said, how far is the closest access point on public land to your area that borders it, are there atv trails (public side) close to your bordered area?

You could also bull doze and push trees up against the line creating a natural fence and making it impossible for atv access and difficult to walk through.

From: spike78
03-Dec-19
Find a little honey hole next to a wildlife sanctuary/preserve.

From: Mad Trapper
03-Dec-19
See the other post on private property ethics. I would advise against the purchase unless you have a plan for policing. Otherwise you will have tresspassers. I think that I have heard just about every excuse under the sun.

From: Smtn10PT
03-Dec-19
Can you hunt sundays in both states? Coming from PA that would be a concern of mine. Edited to add if I was shopping in that ball park I'd look to Kansas

From: yooper89
03-Dec-19
Some fine looking deer in those pictures

From: 12yards
03-Dec-19
No kidding yooper89! I might consider it after looking at those photos.

From: Russell
03-Dec-19
Pat,

Sent you a PM regarding property in KY.

From: Lost Arra
03-Dec-19
Pat wrote: >>The downside is that 75% of it borders public land. I always said I would not border public because trespassing and guys sitting on my borders will drive me absolutely nuts.<<

I think you answered your own question. I would stick with your original thoughts regarding public borders.

From: BigOzzie
03-Dec-19
Eventually I think I will have an opposite issue. My land is remote and mostly surrounded by public. Yes there is access to the public land but it is a good distance. With the current trends in access, and creating public land wilderness, I think joe public will lose access to the public land around me unless the are willing to backpack hunt. Thus creating a joe public that wants to access public land through my private land to shorten their hunts.

I will have my own set of issues some day. Right now I do get joe public hunting up against my land and it is all good they have the right. but not many years and they will not be able to get there without a considerable more work.

oz

From: Brotsky
03-Dec-19
"- Property is 2/3 surrounded by state land that is not accessible to the public for several miles"

Sounds like the public access points are quite distant from this property.

From: Pat Lefemine
03-Dec-19
Brotsky, I read that as 1/3 is close access and 2/3 is not. Everyone would be lined up on that 1/3 part, I suspect.

03-Dec-19
Yep, surround your self with multi-millionaires and all will be good!

From: Rupe
03-Dec-19
Pat if the property makes you happy and meets your needs I say go for it. You’re asking about what if’s this happens or that. I know guys that own private bordering public here in Iowa and they don’t have an issue. These are the big names in the TV outdoor industry too.

Find a farm you love and go for it. This isn’t heaven yet so always going to be some problems but of the place speaks to you them forget about what if’s and enjoy your slice of paradise.

03-Dec-19
Why is the guy selling it? How long did he have it.

From: RIT
03-Dec-19
Interesting that 99% of those trail cam photos are in velvet. That alone isn’t a good sign.

From: Brotsky
03-Dec-19

Brotsky's embedded Photo
Brotsky's embedded Photo
Pat, 100% agree with your assessment now that I pull it up in my OnX as shown here. Wouldn’t be hard to get on those property lines at all from the roads in the area.

From: Pat Lefemine
03-Dec-19
Yup. That west border gets hammered I bet.

RIT - I wondered the exact same thing. It’s curious how 90% of the pics posted are prior to hunting season. It’s possible that the public pressure drives the bucks out. It’s only 100 acres so it’s plausible.

From: Brotsky
03-Dec-19
When did it get listed? If it was early September they may have just not taken the time to keep current trail cam pics on the listing.

From: JTV
03-Dec-19
I can see why Pat liked it originally.... It had a feeder, a elevated luxury Blind and it came with an electric bike .... ;0)

03-Dec-19
I think you are making a mistake passing on this one, Pat.

From: Deerplotter
03-Dec-19
Nope don’t do it. Public is public forever. Nothing but a headache unless the public is a swamp bordering you.

From: Sam S
04-Dec-19
I have hunted real close to there on public land and national forest. There is some pressure but not to the extent you guys are thinking at least during bow season. Don't know about gun season. I normally hunted it during the week the month of Nov and never ran into anyone hunting normally might see a vehicle but not always. Used to Wayne National forest even there usually never saw a soul. I only live about 50 miles from that piece of ground but in WV.

From: timex
04-Dec-19
many moons ago bear hunting in national forest land a guy with a private parcel was absolutely relentless in deterring us from beying anywhere near his land. his land was from the road up the mountain & were on the other side of the road hunting down the mountain. he would be at our truck in a lawn chair waiting. we contemplated calling the law but finally gave up. we had chosen that spot because of a big laurel patch that had lots of bear sign. as far as that guy was concerned he owned the whole damn mountain. just figured I'd share a different perspective on the subject

From: Hans 1
04-Dec-19
I would pass on it for sure. Pat is in an unusual situation in that a lot of his projects and hunts may be shared on this forum. That is to much info to give out with so much of the border being public. It never ceases to amaze me how much people use forums and social media as a effective scouting tool.

From: 12yards
04-Dec-19
It's funny. In MN realtors advertise land bordering public land as a positive. "80 acres bordering thousands of acres of public land!"

From: Pat Lefemine
04-Dec-19
That’s spot on. I see that “selling point” and it’s usually a deal killer. The exception is ground where hunting is not allowed like a giant forest preserve, park, or corporate owned campus. That’s different and a major selling feature.

From: Bake
04-Dec-19
I can't help but think it hurts recruitment like crazy too. I late season hunt a piece that is 1/4 mile from a 2000 acre piece of public that is hammered in bow, gun, etc.

The great thing about the piece that I hunt is that it holds ALL the does in the area for the late season due to the food and pressure nearby. I see some decent bucks on it late season. But it SHOULD hold more and bigger bucks, in my opinion. The opposite side of the piece is fantastic as far as cover and security and remoteness, and I think that there just aren't many mature deer because the young bucks get hammered on the nearby public. . . .

I'd pass personally. Good luck in your search. I'm jealous :)

From: SteveB
04-Dec-19
Ohio resident here my whole life. HUnted my whole life. I have owned two parcels that bordered public over the years and yes, trespassing is a problem. That said, trespassing is a problem even on private. People just seem to go wherever they feel like it. We had to "threaten" with a little down south " acting crazy inhospitality" to get it curtailed. However....even with public border good Ohio land will offer better potential than CT and NY combined. KY is on par with Ohio as far as quality goes for the most part, but because there is more rural land, less trespassing I would say is a safe bet.

From: 320 bull
04-Dec-19
same here in MI 12 yards!!! The flip side of the public bordering private is that except for hunting season you basically have no neighbor. I look at it like there is always gonna be someone next door that is killing deer. You might be better of with the show up and hunt crowd on public for a neighbor than a rich serial killer that has a bunch of friends and thinks he is above the law. He can bait to where as there is no baiting on public. See the MI baiting??? thread for more info on that. I am hoping in a few years I will be looking for something like this. I hope to sell 1 large home and replace it with 2 smaller places in different locales, 1 with deer and 1 with fish.

04-Dec-19
A landowner buddy of mine said for the amount of money he spent on land, he could hunt every state in the midwest. Chase the rut, go on outfitted hunts and hunt the best stands without all the work. He sold his Kansas farm and does just that.

From: Outdoordan
04-Dec-19
Not to downplay your intentions, but why wouldn't a guy buy something out west, say Montana and hunt whitetail, muleys, antelope, elk..? Is it the desire for bigger whitetail? I really am curious as this is completely foreign to me.

From: 12yards
04-Dec-19
Ideally, before you buy land, you visit with the neighbors of said land and see what their hunting philosophy is.

From: Shawn
04-Dec-19
It may depend how easy the access from public to your private is. If guys have to walk a mile over shitty terrain it may help. That said I don't believe public will be much worst than private unless you get real buddy buddy with all your private land owners that birder you. Shawn

From: South Farm
04-Dec-19
Doesn't matter where the access points are, most guys are going to follow the deer sign...and if that leads to your foodplots then guess where they're going to hang their stands?!

From: CAMP DAVID
04-Dec-19
I wouldn't do it fro several reasons.

I think you are as passionate about land as I am. When I catch a trespasser, it's almost like someone has taken advantage of a family member. I go crazy. Who wants to be constantly looking over their shoulder?

Also, for there are two seasons. Hunting season and getting my land ready for hunting season. I think you are the same. Unless you are going to move to, or close to, a new property... how can you really enjoy it when you're only going to be there a hand full of times or it's a hassle to get there?

I wouldn't buy property that far away unless I was moving also.

From: Bou'bound
04-Dec-19
how would someone find time to give time and attention to properties in 3 states. if it is just showing up and hunting when seasons don't overlap that is one thing, but for a guy who wants to manage the property give it grooming, etc. it seems like if could be a bit or a rat race even if it was totally isolated from public infringement. buying a place 700 miles from home is a major factor.

From: BRIBOW
04-Dec-19
Pat you think New York sucks you should try Michigan.

From: Shawn
04-Dec-19
I do agree with Boubound. If you really want to manage and control a property you better live on it or very near it. Shawn

From: mn_archer
04-Dec-19
Pat

have you looked in sw Wisconsin or se Minnesota at all, or is that too far?

There are monster deer to be had, easy non resident licenses (otc) every year, and lots of qdma already in place by many land owners

From: 12yards
05-Dec-19
mn_archer, I think Pat wants to be closer to home. But I agree with you. Problem is land prices is probably pretty high here, no?

From: Highlife
05-Dec-19
I have property bordering 65000 acres on the back of the property. Way it's layed out unless you look at a plot map or get access from private property it's one helluva a walk. The only issues I've had was with my wife's family trespassing. One of those she's blood so we can hunt it. Of course since a major battle between the cousins I finally don't have that problem anymore lol

From: LBshooter
05-Dec-19
Why not partner up with a couple guys with one of them living in the state you want to buy in. Having someone with a vested interest in the property close by is a huge advantage. Three incomes mean more land, and splitting expenses is also a big advantage,

From: mn_archer
05-Dec-19
LB,

as someone who has been in a partnership like you speak of I'd say HELL NO!

The first issue is getting 2 like minded buddies may not be an issue but there will always be disagreements as far as purchasing equipment, maintaining the land, who hunts when and where.

Then the topic of who gets access to the property comes up ea year. Your buddies buddy seen the pic of your deer last year, etc.

A long time ago I was also involved with a medium sized group of guys that went out west archery elk hunting every year. After 5 or 6 years I realized I was totally being used. Not only was I the one doing all the research, all thenkeg work etc finding good spots, I also owned all the equipment. We needed a wall tent, I bought it. It just went on and on. Sure, i killed elk every year but i also held someone's hand as they killed their first elk too- for like 10 different guys. Ive never been happier than when we trimmed back to the original 3- me, my dad, and my cousin. There is also the fact that people I brought thought it is completely acceptable to bring their own buddies out there a year or two later.

If you can afford to purchase the land in your own I say go for it. With todays technology available there is no reason to not be able to catch trespassers

From: Pat Lefemine
05-Dec-19
Bunch of questions - I appreciate this topic. Especially since nobody asked if I was going to bait on my property.

? on Partnerships - no. I don't do any business with friends or relatives. That strict rule has kept the peace for my entire life. Plus, I'm a control freak so that won't work out.

? on Wisconsin? Too far. I've also had my fill of snow with my land in NY. Since things are looking like I'm going to be stuck in CT during my retirement, my max driving distance is one day from my home in Northeast CT.

There was a solid point about 'what people pay for land they can do guided hunts every year.' This is absolutely true, and if it was just about killing big bucks then that would be my strategy. However my motivation is not killing at all. It's hunting and land management. I get so much satisfaction from building hunting properties over time that it's going to be my retirement hobby. T-Roy and others get this all too well. It's never about the kill, it's about the process and then seeing all that work come together through trail cam pics and sightings. My property draws most of the deer in my area of NY and all of the big bucks cruise it. My only regret about buying my NY property (which is amazing how it's turned out) is that I underestimated the impact of that stupid 6-week rifle season, up to 300" of snow, and regressive deer management policies in NY. All of those things make it very difficult to make any real progress toward QDM. I do plan to keep NY, and my small PA property, but I also want to buy into an area that has better bowhunting opportunities and good age structure and trophy quality like Ohio or Kentucky.

I also look at these purchases for what they are - investments. My kids will be much happier if I leave them 500 acres of quality hunting land than 3 dozen worthless deer mounts. And if I ever need to, I can sell any or all of them and likely make a decent ROI.

I just paid my son's last tuition bill. We had funded all three of my kids' colleges and two of them are done including the expensive private college tuitions. My daughter has two years of State School left and my college fund (which I started when they were born) has more money than she needs. In other words, it's 'me time.'

This has been an excellent discussion. I appreciate that.

From: CAS_HNTR
05-Dec-19
Pat, I agree this is a great discussion. Having property you can "play" with is as much or more fun than the actual hunting. The preparation, planning, and work are VERY enjoyable - wouldn't trade it for anything. We have a little over 120 ac in SE Ohio and have spent a TON of time planting orchards, prepping plots, working on TSI, etc. Getting pics and seeing deer use what you worked to improve is great!

Maybe you can buy our neighbors place.....build a paradise!

Regarding the public border......in Ohio, I would consider any property that is within a few miles of a public chunk to be somewhat of a detraction. The pressure here is significant and seems to be more and more. My fear would be not just trespassing, but a stunted herd in general if you were in close proximity to public.Bow season was calm with few hunters, but that time has past.

05-Dec-19
Pat, consider one more thing: You don't have to drive.

My primary residence has been Alaska for the past 5 years, but I didn't sell my place in California. The two places are thousands of miles apart. I now have my Alaska hunting gear and my lower-48 hunting gear so I don't have to cart stuff back and forth. I fly between them all the time. If I have a week off, I pop down to California to see my kids for a few days. It gets so that air-travel feels like your normal commute. Alaska to California is far more drastic than what you'd be looking at.

Consider buying a place with a home on it or put a cabin on it and buy a vehicle that stays there and you now unlock a lot more places that you can get to in the same amount of time on a plane. And with TSA precheck, hopping on a flight and going 1000 miles is nothing nowadays. Look at where your local airport flies to directly and then start looking at properties close to those airports.

If you're retired, the physical distance really doesn't matter. The plane tickets cost is negligible if you just paid for 3 college tuitions. It's all about the time and hassle and there really is no difference in time or hassle in a car going 500 miles as there is in a plane going 1000.

If you're willing to drive to Ohio, then there's no good reason you couldn't fly to Wisconsin or Illinois.

EDIT: In fact, I'd fly to Ohio too...

From: Shiras42
05-Dec-19
Pat,

Ike has some good points. My friend has a ranch in NM that we hunt. It's a 16+ hour drive from eastern NE to get down there. Basically a 2 day drive and not something that you would do for a "quick hitter" trip. They bought a connex box to leave on the ranch and we lock it up with anything that is valuable (a couple ATVs, an old Suzuki Samurai we rebuilt, and lots of other stuff crammed in there). He bought an older pickup that we leave at one of the remote parking areas at the ABQ airport and pay like $400/year in parking. It's much quicker and more convenient to fly down there and then have a couple hour drive to the ranch than 4 days of driving (there and back). Something to think about...

05-Dec-19
I did a quick search on Expedia. You're looking at $200-300 one way and 4-8 hours to get to any of the airports in Illinois or Wisconsin, all the small airports I checked had one stop included. $500 round trip to Madison. 5 hours from wheels up to wheels down.

If you're driving a truck to Ohio, the cost difference is small.

I'd rather be in IL or hill country in SW WI than OH.

From: Pat Lefemine
05-Dec-19

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Idyl, It would be $200 for the flight and $2000 for all the gear, seed, equipment, that I would need to bring there. When I head out to my PA property this is what my truck looks like! Ha!

From: Buckhunter
05-Dec-19
That is hysterical!!! Something is not adding up for me. I am also looking for property to manage. I live in se pa and have set a 3 hour drive limit from my house so I can actually go there work and hunt on a long weekend. How do you work, run a web site, and manage a property in pa, ny and now looking in ohio. Do you sleep? I am not getting it!

From: Buckhunter
05-Dec-19
That is hysterical!!! Something is not adding up for me. I am also looking for property to manage. I live in se pa and have set a 3 hour drive limit from my house so I can actually go there work and hunt on a long weekend. How do you work, run a web site, and manage a property in pa, ny and now looking in ohio. Do you sleep? I am not getting it!

05-Dec-19
Buy locally...

From: spike78
05-Dec-19
Pat, what about the bow only area in WV?

From: spike78
05-Dec-19
Pat, what about the bow only area in WV?

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