Sitka Mountain Gear
More Wolf Carnage
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
DL 09-Dec-19
JTV 09-Dec-19
GF 09-Dec-19
DL 10-Dec-19
Glunt@work 10-Dec-19
TrapperKayak 10-Dec-19
Trophyhill 10-Dec-19
Glunt@work 10-Dec-19
JL 10-Dec-19
Treeline 10-Dec-19
GF 10-Dec-19
JL 10-Dec-19
PECO 10-Dec-19
Brotsky 10-Dec-19
GF 10-Dec-19
TrapperKayak 10-Dec-19
Grasshopper 10-Dec-19
PECO 10-Dec-19
Grasshopper 10-Dec-19
markr 10-Dec-19
DL 10-Dec-19
TD 10-Dec-19
JL 10-Dec-19
PECO 10-Dec-19
TrapperKayak 10-Dec-19
TrapperKayak 10-Dec-19
Ermine 10-Dec-19
JL 10-Dec-19
TrapperKayak 10-Dec-19
Elite 1 10-Dec-19
Elite 1 10-Dec-19
sasquatch 10-Dec-19
HH 11-Dec-19
GF 11-Dec-19
Pop-r 11-Dec-19
HH 12-Dec-19
NoWiser 12-Dec-19
KSflatlander 12-Dec-19
LBshooter 12-Dec-19
standswittaknife 12-Dec-19
ROUGHCOUNTRY 12-Dec-19
GF 12-Dec-19
HH 12-Dec-19
RT 12-Dec-19
Glunt@work 12-Dec-19
GF 12-Dec-19
HH 12-Dec-19
ground hunter 12-Dec-19
Glunt@work 12-Dec-19
RK 12-Dec-19
wyobullshooter 12-Dec-19
elk yinzer 12-Dec-19
Glunt@work 12-Dec-19
HH 13-Dec-19
HH 15-Dec-19
1boonr 15-Dec-19
HH 15-Dec-19
1boonr 15-Dec-19
From: DL
09-Dec-19

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
This looks like a coyote but still makes me sick

From: JTV
09-Dec-19
the only good wold if a dead wolf ... the only good coyote is a dead coyote ... PERIOD !!

From: GF
09-Dec-19
I don’t suppose they have anyone AT Yellowstone who can confirm that report?

Guess I should get in touch with my wife’s cousin’s kid… I think he’s working up at Yellowstone. Maybe he would have access to good data…

From: DL
10-Dec-19

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo

From: Glunt@work
10-Dec-19
2019 WY wolf population estimate is 286 wolves. The NPS Biologist who led the introduction in Yellowstone reached an estimate of 20 elk per year, per wolf. Thats 5700+ elk per year or an elk being killed about every hour and a half in Wyoming every day, 365 days a year.

Thats more than double what bowhunters take in WY.

From: TrapperKayak
10-Dec-19
Its pathetic what that re-intro has done to the elk population with out any wolf control. Sad state of affairs up there. I was there when the Northern herd was around 18 - 20K, which is too many, but its now way too few at 4K, and something should be done to stop these wolves. Like taking at least half of them out. Period. The elk pop. goal should be around 12 - 14K to be ideal for carrying capacity of the available habitat and food sources for the northern herd of YS elk.. which equates to around 170 wolves (the number seen around the early 2000's. That should be the management goal, 150 - 170 maybe. It looks to me from the graph that the 2012 wolf pop. estimates are in the upper 400s, has it dropped back to 286 currently, since then?

From: Trophyhill
10-Dec-19
Why aren't the local game departments reporting these types of findings?

From: Glunt@work
10-Dec-19
286 is Wyoming only and it is down a bit. The numbers on the chart are the "GYA" which I assume is greater Yellowstone area so probably includes more than WY.

USFW 2012 estimates were 98 in the Park and 230 in the rest of WY.

From: JL
10-Dec-19
Still haven't seen any confirmation on the pic???

From: Treeline
10-Dec-19
What confirmation are you looking for?

That is an old picture but obviously showing an elk getting killed by a wolf.

The graphs of big game numbers versus wolves tell the tale very well. Look up the Stop the Wolf web page and just start looking at their information.

Between direct killing of big game for food and fun, there is also a disease vector that is pretty scary. Wolves are carriers of Hydad disease and are also now linked to the spread of CWD. Not to mention the domestic livestock and pet killing.

There are good reasons that wolves were eradicated!

From: GF
10-Dec-19
The pic is the least of our concerns, but it that’s a coyote, that must be a pic of a Sika deer.....

I do recall seeing somewhere that the wolf population in the park had grown at a rate and into numbers that no one had ever contemplated going into the deal. Totally unprecedented in a natural setting. Kinda like duck hunting in a city park.

FWIW, an awful lot of the biologists who were in favor of the reintroduction (I attended a big conference on this in ‘89/‘90 in Laramie) were ALSO avid Elk hunters. Wiping out the regional herd was never on the agenda - only getting the herd INSIDE of the park down to the healthy capacity of the landscape.

This is turning into a major Cluster....

From: JL
10-Dec-19

JL's Link
Tree.....just because something is posted on the internet I don't always initially assume it is legit or represents what I'm seeing or reading. You can end up looking foolish if you make that a habit. I went and looked a bit myself and found a companion pic of that encounter. It appears to have been around since prior to 2013....how old...who knows. So yes...it's an old picture.

From: PECO
10-Dec-19
I have some wolf hippie friends. They saw the wolf saved Yellowstone video and that is all they want to believe. They would not take a serious look at anything from a group called "Stop the Wolf" They don't care about anti-wolf facts. So, when looking for authentication/credibility of photos like this one, where is a source that is not anti-wolf in title, one that will get wolf hippies to at least take a look at the other side of the issue.

From: Brotsky
10-Dec-19
Wolf hippies don't care about the facts, they only care about how wolves make them feel. The only way to combat that is to make them feel something else with visual propaganda.

From: GF
10-Dec-19
Right! Because we all know that Propaganda is better than facts!

From: TrapperKayak
10-Dec-19
The hard core wolf hippies have the same mentality as Adam Shifferbranes and Jerry Nadless. None.

From: Grasshopper
10-Dec-19

Grasshopper's Link
You guys need to get on facebook if you want to reach people with a message. All you have to do is click share and it goes to everyone on your timeline, and they then hit share and so on. 39,000 on the I Hunt Colorado page, 3700 on the CBA page.

Lots of guys who disappeared from bowsite are on Facebook. You need to extend your reach. You want shocking wolf carnage, this is it.

I posted and shared this video on the CBA page yesterday.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QtiNYOv-gIwaEYSenTVTSn82ZXUhWPZd

From: PECO
10-Dec-19
The wolf hippies will just say you're an asshole for leaving your poor dogs out in the blizzard. Shame on you. (Not you, whoever's dogs these were) They don't understand or care about ranchers and working dogs. I'm sharing this on fb anyhow, thanks for the link.

From: Grasshopper
10-Dec-19
Your right, they will say that. I'm not an MD, can't cure mental defects.

From: markr
10-Dec-19
Who gives a crap about the photo JL? It's probably just a file photo.

From: DL
10-Dec-19
Grasshopper I saw that today and it boils my blood. If they were my dogs I would hire some guys to hunt them down. My dogs are my family.

From: TD
10-Dec-19
I've heard from wolfies that ranchers need to "factor in" livestock losses to wolves.

I always ask them if they are good with just "factoring in" burglary, assault, and mugging in their own home and neighborhood?

Well..... it seems that's, um, different. When the only true difference is that it effects them and not someone else. Seems a very common theme that runs through the entire wolf introduction debacle..... "hey, I live in (insert name of large urban chithole) and I really like wolves! (that just happen to live and effect somewhere/someone else).

Common. Like folks who live behind fences, gates and security systems..... who are all for open borders and prisoner release programs..... somewhere else....

From: JL
10-Dec-19
Markr sez...."Who gives a crap about the photo JL? It's probably just a file photo."

JL sez:...Me!!.....however, not so much what the photo depicts but the accuracy of the message contents which in this case....includes that photo. If someone wants to believe in a message or cause...you better make darn sure what you're reading/seeing/believing in it's authentic. I've been on both sides of that concern......me hastily posting something that turned out to be bogus and knowing what someone else posted was bogus or misrepresented. Speaking for myself, that's why I might ask a question or two about something. I'd like to think most wise folks might think the same way.

That said....I have no problem with a wolf season because I'd like to get one (or two).

From: PECO
10-Dec-19
I was banned from a Siberian Husky Fan page on fb. They had a pro wolf thread going on. I was against wolves being reintroduced. They all called me a troll and gone I was. None of the wolf lovers lived where there were actually any wolves. The main "wolf expert" was a woman in who lived in NYC. No problem, I belong to a few other groups where they stay on topic and know the difference between a Siberian Husky and a wolf.

From: TrapperKayak
10-Dec-19
I have no problem with a wolf season because I'd like to get an elk again.

From: TrapperKayak
10-Dec-19
There are 'wolves' in NYC, and quite a few cougars.

From: Ermine
10-Dec-19
But they only kill the sick and old...

From: JL
10-Dec-19
^"There are 'wolves' in NYC, and quite a few cougars."

In NYC....just because it wears lipstick, high heels, fishnets and goes by Lola doesn't confirm it's a cougar. I think someone wrote a song about that.

From: TrapperKayak
10-Dec-19
Crocodile Dundee knew how to check them for authenticity......

From: Elite 1
10-Dec-19
Grasshopper after watching that blood pressure at all time high

From: Elite 1
10-Dec-19
Never hunted elk never hunted Colorado would love to one day. After watching video had to give my 25.00 to stop wolf In Colorado. Good luck to you all.

From: sasquatch
10-Dec-19
Always amazes me when and where there’s animal overpopulation problems SELLING HUNTING opportunities isn’t even considered!! It’s how much tax money can we waste to not solve anything that’s always the answer. Just amazing.

I think NY even spent millions euthanizing deer to slow the city limits population down!

From: HH
11-Dec-19
Wilfies i see live in large progressive cities and drive subaru’s with love n live with wold stickerz.

Factor in most folks in wolf country will never let wolves get to populus.

From: GF
11-Dec-19
“Just amazing. I think NY even spent millions euthanizing deer to slow the city limits population down!”

Not euthanized; they’re giving the bucks vasectomies.

No foolin’!!

From: Pop-r
11-Dec-19
How can you be friends with someone who supports wolves?! Smh

From: HH
12-Dec-19
Sounds like a progressive left crazy thing. Just like introducing coyotes and wolves. Gvt paid out millions to rid the continent of them. Now you Sinty folks wanting to hear wolves again. Don't hurt them if wolves eat 25% of a flock of sheep. Way these folks figger, "it gives jobs to immigrant South American shepherd who come here for work" . Wolves are creating jobs they say!

KH

From: NoWiser
12-Dec-19
HH, I enjoy sharing the woods with wolves and you absolutely nailed my exact line of thinking. It's 100% because they increase immigration into this country. You've got things figured out.

From: KSflatlander
12-Dec-19
HH/Hedge Hunter/Shawn Maygar- I thought you were banned from the Bowsite. Why the new alias?

From: LBshooter
12-Dec-19
Omg, here we go again, ever year towards the end of hunting season this topic comes up, Wolves need to be managed, not killed off. For each one who says the only good wolf is a dead wolf is not taken serious, by anyone other than other wolf haters. Your attitude is never going to win the arguement, and that's a fact. Wolves depend on wild game for their lives, recreational hunters don't, so if they kill off the herd they die , hunters have to find something else to do in August/Sep. instead of calling for outright extinction put your efforts into managing efforts. how many of you wolf haters have loaded up and gone out with the intent to shoot as many as you can? Wolves need to be properly managed and hunting seasons need to be in place to help keep them in check. Please stop with the ignorant talk of kill all wolves and coyotes, it makes hunters look like blood thirsty ignorant fools. For those of you in wolve areas, what are you doing other than complaining to change things? Are you active in your local politics with helping get good people elected? You donating to those candidates to help them get in office? Any of you running yourselves to hold office? are you doing anything other than comming on websites saying wolves and coyotes need to be exterminated? less flapping of the gums with the tough talk and more action on your part may change things for your state. Calling names and attacking ain't going to solve your problem of overpopulation with predators, and that's a fact. Now that I have probably angered you all go ahead and attack. Lol

12-Dec-19
These ads need to be on billboards and mainstream media in Denver.

From: ROUGHCOUNTRY
12-Dec-19
A picture of a coyote on an elk's back isn't gonna get it done. I have seen 3 wolves over the years and all out of season. I don't see as many tracks anymore either here in western Montana (Bitterroot valley). However, it can't be overstated about the total crash in Yellowstone. People can drive through the park now and not even see elk. It can sustain higher numbers in a protected setting like Y.P. I'd like to see more elk and big bulls or it's not the draw interest for me or my kids to make the trip to Yellowstone. So, maybe a drop in park revenue would make a difference although people's disappointment in elk sightings generally happens after the fact.

From: GF
12-Dec-19
RC - the fact that the park is a park has zero bearing on the carrying capacity of the land.

I’m with LBshooter; management is the thing. We’re not the only ones out there in the Land of Many Uses.... we can share.

From: HH
12-Dec-19
I've seen plenty Inuit's with plenty wolf pelts. They never passed up taking them out of their hunting grounds. Make great jacket fringes as well in Artic weather or very cold weather. I never pass an opportunity to, when given, to take a shot at a sheep/cattle/elk/snowshoe/porcupine/deer/bison/ killer.

Ryan you man crushing or brush popping again? You can read Hawaiian! Congrats.

KH~

Funny how the disappeared in Northern Asia as they did in North America. Guess no mater your ethic background on Asia or here, they figgered wolves and living, farming and livestock don't work.

From: RT
12-Dec-19
I am sure all this talk is having a profound effect.

From: Glunt@work
12-Dec-19
If I thought wolves would be properly managed in CO I could be swayed to support them. Unfortunately, it would be foolish to assume it would go any differently than it has in other states.

So, I am firmly against introducing them here. Not because wolves will be wolves, it's because people will be people

From: GF
12-Dec-19
“Not because wolves will be wolves, it's because people will be people”

True Dat!

I just hope it doesn’t take some kid being shredded to turn the tide. Managed predators are well-behaved predators.

From: HH
12-Dec-19
They put wolves in CO legal or illegal. Elk will flood outa un managed public for private where wolves will be MANAGED.

They have plenty hungry howls in NF’s then echoing of empty granite and theu empty elk timber.

KH~

Putting elk squarely at odds with ranchers.

12-Dec-19
In the UP, its been handled,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,right or wrong etc, matters are done,,,,,,, at least in my area,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Glunt you can not be that naïve............. just sayin

From: Glunt@work
12-Dec-19
"Glunt you can not be that naïve..."

I was once. I supported the introduction in WY, ID and MT when it was first floated in the late 80's . Original plan was 10 breeding pairs per state or basically about 100 wolves per state. After release and too late to stop, they tripled that number as the objective. Then the lawsuits let the population go way beyond that new number. The whole time wolves were being wolves which means hunting 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Obviously wolves are "handled" unofficially to some extent everywhere they exist. In a newly introduced population with lots of monitoring, studying, GPS collars and pro-wolf folks hanging around salivating at the thought of finding someone to make an example of, "handling" is risky business.

From: RK
12-Dec-19
Yea Glunt. The "handling" is not really reflected in the data. Of course the bean counters could be lying. Who knows

Kind of a Wolf / Mafia kind of thing. "For get about it"

Funny stuff but a dang serious subject

12-Dec-19
Thank God we can kill wolves 24/7/365 in the overwhelming majority of our state!

From: elk yinzer
12-Dec-19
My propoganda alarm is going off...If I've learnt anything the past four years, one way to fight fake news is with faker news.

From: Glunt@work
12-Dec-19
As for the original post, I have no idea if its an accurate observation but it wouldn't really sway my thoughts either way. There is history and plenty of documented facts on wolf behavior and how introduction plays out to digest. The guy being quoted has a history of controversy with anti wolf folks and with sportsmen but I don't know that much about him. Like most anecdotal claims, I don't automatically believe or disbelieve it.

From: HH
13-Dec-19
The wolf in small Mt state elk/cattle towns is just like renewable, alt fuels or power to the Woke crowd.

The wolf can be just enough to change these small towns way of life or how folks there make their living. Some of these small locations make their yearly grub stake off the associated revenue from elk hunting both bow and rifle. It only takes a little to upset this balance to change it completely.

To the WOKE this fits their model perfectly and works in the end to change these locales at the ballot box. Sheep country that is now wolf country is a an example that fits this wonderfully. Look at prime sheep country in MT. It now has a wolf problem "you can not leave sheep unattended anymore" so you have to hire folks to Shepherd" where do find folks to do that?? Not in USA for sure. They get them mainly from S. America so now for a number of years you have these folks and families in small towns that are changing the way of life for 100yrs or more. Like it or not. Less Elk more Wolf equals bigger change and faster.

The more change and people in these area's means more WOKE representation in Wash. In these rural areas it takes very little in terms of changing demographics to upset the apple cart. The Wolf is the Subaru that gets them there and quick like.

KH~

From: HH
15-Dec-19
Keep this up by Jaq’s thread.

K

From: 1boonr
15-Dec-19
Too bad there isn’t a way to get a real good rabies outbreak started in those packs.

From: HH
15-Dec-19
They carry stuff thats worse!

KH~

From: 1boonr
15-Dec-19
They might carry stuff that is worse but rabies will kill the whole pack

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