Black Gold Sights - Pure Gold
Dad and Daughter Killed in Deer Drive
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Bou'bound 03-Jan-20
1boonr 03-Jan-20
Kevin Dill 03-Jan-20
RT 03-Jan-20
ground hunter 03-Jan-20
Southern draw 03-Jan-20
Pyrannah 03-Jan-20
Woods Walker 03-Jan-20
Hawkeye 03-Jan-20
midwest 03-Jan-20
Will 03-Jan-20
wyobullshooter 03-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 03-Jan-20
Woods Walker 03-Jan-20
Tonybear61 03-Jan-20
Brotsky 03-Jan-20
Woods Walker 03-Jan-20
Pop-r 03-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 03-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 03-Jan-20
lawdy 03-Jan-20
GF 03-Jan-20
elkstabber 03-Jan-20
elkstabber 03-Jan-20
franklin 03-Jan-20
Tlhbow 03-Jan-20
Rut Nut 03-Jan-20
t-roy 03-Jan-20
lewis 03-Jan-20
midwest 03-Jan-20
GF 03-Jan-20
Paul@thefort 03-Jan-20
Bou'bound 03-Jan-20
JTV 03-Jan-20
Buffalo1 03-Jan-20
Zbone 03-Jan-20
Scooby-doo 03-Jan-20
Bou'bound 03-Jan-20
Bou'bound 03-Jan-20
Duke 03-Jan-20
Shuteye 03-Jan-20
Dave 04-Jan-20
Dale06 04-Jan-20
Bowboy 04-Jan-20
Pat Lefemine 04-Jan-20
lawdy 04-Jan-20
BOHUNTER09 04-Jan-20
Redheadtwo 04-Jan-20
Zim 05-Jan-20
Timex 05-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 05-Jan-20
1boonr 05-Jan-20
DanaC 05-Jan-20
JTV 05-Jan-20
1boonr 05-Jan-20
Ambush 05-Jan-20
SteveB 05-Jan-20
Redheadtwo 05-Jan-20
1boonr 06-Jan-20
Scrappy 06-Jan-20
zipper 06-Jan-20
Timex 06-Jan-20
lewis 06-Jan-20
HDE 06-Jan-20
Bou'bound 06-Jan-20
GF 07-Jan-20
ND String Puller 07-Jan-20
Arrowflinger 07-Jan-20
Dave 08-Jan-20
PAbowhunter1064 08-Jan-20
Bowhunt3138 08-Jan-20
Dave 09-Jan-20
Bou'bound 09-Jan-20
Timex 09-Jan-20
RK 09-Jan-20
Tlhbow 09-Jan-20
grizzly 09-Jan-20
Rut Nut 09-Jan-20
Timex 10-Jan-20
ND String Puller 10-Jan-20
Dave 13-Jan-20
Rut Nut 13-Jan-20
Timex 13-Jan-20
Bucks-n-Bows 13-Jan-20
elkstabber 13-Jan-20
grizzly 13-Jan-20
lawdy 14-Jan-20
Timex 14-Jan-20
Dave 15-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 15-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 15-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 15-Jan-20
elkstabber 15-Jan-20
Catscratch 15-Jan-20
lawdy 15-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 15-Jan-20
Bucks-n-Bows 15-Jan-20
GF 15-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 15-Jan-20
Timex 15-Jan-20
Russ Koon 15-Jan-20
Kwikdraw 15-Jan-20
Timex 15-Jan-20
GF 15-Jan-20
Trophyhill 15-Jan-20
Timex 16-Jan-20
midwest 16-Jan-20
Russ Koon 16-Jan-20
GF 16-Jan-20
Russ Koon 16-Jan-20
Russ Koon 16-Jan-20
Jaquomo 16-Jan-20
Zim 16-Jan-20
Catscratch 16-Jan-20
From: Bou'bound
03-Jan-20

Father, daughter killed in South Carolina hunting accident

Officials say a South Carolina man and his daughter were accidentally shot to death after being mistaken for deer on a New Year's Day hunting trip

WALTERBORO, S.C. -- A South Carolina man and his 9-year-old daughter were mistaken for deer during a New Year's Day hunting trip and accidentally shot to death by another hunter, authorities said.

Kim Drawdy, 30, and daughter Lauren were fatally shot about 2:30 p.m. Wednesday in Colleton County near Walterboro as four hunters tried to move deer, the state Department of Natural Resources said.

They died at the scene, Colleton County Coroner Richard Harvey told The Post and Courier.

The Department of Natural Resources is investigating. More information, such as whether the two were wearing blaze orange safety gear, will not be provided until the investigation is complete, department spokesman David Lucas said.

South Carolina has a few hunting accidents each year, Lucas said. There have been several recently near the end of deer season Wednesday.

In 2019, the state had 16 hunting accidents, Lucas said. Eleven of those involved firearms, causing two deaths. The other five involved tree stand accidents, such as falls, which led to one death.

“It’s not a thing that happens a lot,” Lucas said. “Hunting accidents are rare in general, and fatalities even more so.”

From: 1boonr
03-Jan-20
They shoot 00 buckshot down there and do drives with dogs. I would guess no blaze orange

From: Kevin Dill
03-Jan-20
Very, very heartbreaking to read. Nothing but prayers and sadness.

From: RT
03-Jan-20
Poor souls, RIP.

03-Jan-20
How sad for that family

03-Jan-20
Terrible news prayers for the family!

From: Pyrannah
03-Jan-20
Terrible tragedy... especially with a child.. heartbreaking

From: Woods Walker
03-Jan-20
How awful........May God rest their souls.

From: Hawkeye
03-Jan-20
So very sad. Prayers sent.

From: midwest
03-Jan-20
Just awful. Prayers to the family.

From: Will
03-Jan-20
Ugh, very sad for the family and positive thoughts and energy go out to them.

It's a terrible, horrible reminder to ALWAYS know/identify with certainty your target. I cant imagine being the family who lost a huge part, or the shooter who has to live with the experience. Horrible situation.

03-Jan-20
Heartbreaking.

From: TrapperKayak
03-Jan-20
That's awful. Shouldnt matter if they are wearing orange or not, that kind of thing is avoidable. They should be able to wear brown and white and still be safe if everyone MADE SURE OF THEIR TARGET AND BEYOND!!!!! Late season, people get desperate to fill tags and shoot at SOUND. Its pathetic and sad, tragic. Prayers out to all involved, and the family. Imagone the guilt you would have if you took that chance just to fill a deer tag and that was the result? WTF, use your head people (not you guys, the ones involved).

From: Woods Walker
03-Jan-20
According to what I just looked up, blaze orange for hunting in South Carolina is only required on state lands (WMA's). I don't know if these poor souls were wearing it or not. I also pray for the person responsible for this tragedy, as their life will never be the same again.

From: Tonybear61
03-Jan-20
To shoot without identifying what is clearly in front and behind your target is a general no, no , expressed at every firearms, bowhunting safety course I have attended and participated in. This is just awful and hurts just to hear about it.

Psychologists tell us there is something called "premature closure" where a hunter could even get to the point they convince themselves they see the desired game animal, when in fact its not there. Personally I just can't conceive it.

God Bless the victims and their family.

From: Brotsky
03-Jan-20
There are no words. Prayers for everyone involved.

From: Woods Walker
03-Jan-20
I've been gun deer hunting with the same small group of people for the past several decades. The last day of gun season we may do a few drives, mainly for anyone who didn't get one. We all wear blaze orange (it's the law in Illinois...and even if it weren't we'd still wear it), and depending on the drive conditions, we only will shoot if we know specifically were everyone is. It's not that any of us would mistake another person for a deer, but in cover it can be very difficult to see what's behind what you are shooting at, especially when all your attention if focused on a deer in your sights. The blaze orange helps tremendously with that. It literally does save lives.

From: Pop-r
03-Jan-20
I pray for the victims and shooter as well but also believe he should be facing charges. Accident or not he is negligent.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Jan-20
Tragic for all parties involved.

I can't fathom how something like this can happen. Not one person, but two? Are you kidding me? Just another reason I'd never participate in a deer drive during gun season.

Matt

From: TrapperKayak
03-Jan-20
There is no requirement to wear blaze orange in NY, imagine that? Even still, it should not be necessary if everyone is diligent enough to employ the responsibilities they learned in Hunter Safety courses. I agree, he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter. Maybe that will prevent future mishaps, if tougher penalties make people THINK!!!!! about consequences.....

From: lawdy
03-Jan-20
As one who has been the victim in a hunting accident, I was wearing red, I never walk in the woods during deer season without at least an orange hat. I bow hunt all rifle season and wear an orange vest, hat, and have an orange bandana on my pac seat. I only groundhunt and if I take a stand, I place the orange stuff above me on branches. It doesn’t bother the deer. I live in a state that has no orange law. All us older guys wear orange. A lot of the younger guys hunt in camo only. We had a guy shoot his brother-in-law with a muzzleloader years ago and the wardens re-enacted the scene wearing the same camo. They videoed it. The guy was crawling under branches and looked just like a buck. No charges. Orange would have prevented a near death experience as he survived. When I had my accident, I wasn’t hunting, my daughter and I were checking out an old apple tree for apples. Two rules up here, wear an orange hat and have a CB in your vehicle on logging roads unless you want to be driven off the road by a logging truck.

From: GF
03-Jan-20
“Psychologists tell us there is something called "premature closure" where a hunter could even get to the point they convince themselves they see the desired game animal, when in fact its not there. Personally I just can't conceive it.“

Apparently, most of the moose shot accidentally by Elk Hunters (Colorado data) are killed by older, more experienced hunters who have taken several Elk previously.

These are guys who have the skills to see parts of an animal and figure out what they’re looking at, including verifying the points... but sometimes all of those Elk parts add up to a moose. Especially if it’s a young bull without much palmation.

Doesn’t happen as much to Bowhunters because we tend not to take neck/frontal shots and we’re looking for tan, not just brown.

Horrifying.

From: elkstabber
03-Jan-20

elkstabber's Link
It is tragic that a father and daughter were both killed.

I don't know SC laws but I am very familiar with dog hunting in VA and NC. It is very common for hunters to shoot each other in dog hunting scenarios, especially when there are no antler point restrictions and the limit is two deer per day. Typically, victims survive because the 00 buckshot isn't as effective as most would think. The SC situation seems more likely to have been rifle shots. Blaze orange doesn't provide safety in a reckless hunting culture.

From: elkstabber
03-Jan-20

elkstabber's Link
Reckless hunting is just in the culture of some parts of our country.

From: franklin
03-Jan-20
I wish my state would ban deer drives...IMO it`s an archaic form of "hunting/shooting".

From: Tlhbow
03-Jan-20
A tragic accident for everyone involved. Bad deal..

From: Rut Nut
03-Jan-20
Prayers for all involved! Horrible! : (

Can’t help but think the victims were not wearing blaze orange. Not trying to blame the victims, but incidents like this are so preventable. Wear blaze orange during firearms seasons!

From: t-roy
03-Jan-20
What a tragic accident! Prayers sent for the victim’s family, as well as for the person who pulled the trigger. What a terrible burden to have to live with for the rest of their life.

From: lewis
03-Jan-20
What a tragedy I hunted SC in the 60s-80s thank God we never had an experience any thing close to that Lewis

From: midwest
03-Jan-20
Agree, Troy. I'd rather be one of the victims than the shooter.

From: GF
03-Jan-20
“I wish my state would ban deer drives...IMO it`s an archaic form of ‘hunting/shooting’.”

How about we don’t make this one about YOU? A family has been gutted.

From: Paul@thefort
03-Jan-20
Sorry situation for sure. Life is too short and then something like this happens. Sad.

From: Bou'bound
03-Jan-20
every fatal shooting accident is preventable had people done things differently. Sadly we hear of hunting deaths by accidental shooting every year and always will. with 10's of millions of people in the field for months people are going to get shot because it's people doing the shooting and people make mistakes and bad decisions.

I have never heard of, and honestly don't know that there has ever been, a double killing accidently. There have been multiple murders (in WI or MN deer camp a number of years ago), but to accidently take out two people is astronomically unfathomable.

I don't believe that stiffer penalties as suggested above would matter though. It's not like a shooter is saying that may be a man or may be a deer but even if it's a man since I will only get fined if I shoot someone I am going to take the risk and shoot, but If I was looking at doing jail time I would not shoot.

From: JTV
03-Jan-20
there is no way I would not wear Blaze orange during gun season, hell, with some of these fools going to crossbows now, it makes sense wearing it going to and from stands during archery only season .... this is a sad case with these two , may they RIP ...

03-Jan-20
Prayers

From: Buffalo1
03-Jan-20
Prayers for everyone involved in this matter. Horrible news.

From: Zbone
03-Jan-20
Tragic, so sad... Prayers to the family...

From: Scooby-doo
03-Jan-20
Listen guys, my brother had a 12 gauge slug put through his upper right chest, punctured a lung, hit his scupla deflected downward and went through his liver and out his lower back! I got to him in less than 3 minutes and people tell me he lived because of me. I just did what I thought needed to be done! He had blaze orange and camo on. Blaze orange can mean little when it is a young hunter and gets excited that he thinks a deer is crossing the creek at 85 yards. He actually made a nice shot, just bad that it was my brother. The kid still lives with the fact he did this to this day and I can say he actually has become a very good and safe responsible hunter. I just hope all involved are ok in the end!! Shawn

From: Bou'bound
03-Jan-20
Scooby unfortunately all involved in this one will not all be ok in the end. At leas not in this life and world.

From: Bou'bound
03-Jan-20
A man and his 9-year-old daughter were gunned down in South Carolina by a fellow hunter who mistook them for deer, authorities said Friday.

The victims, Kim Drawdy, 30, and Lauren Drawdy, 9, were in a hunting party of four as they were working to get their prey into firing range at about 2:30 p.m. on Wednesday. Suddenly, deadly gunfire rang out at the scene in Walterboro, about 50 miles west of Charleston, officials said.

"Four hunters were attempting to move deer, also known as driving deer," the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources said in a statement, "when two hunters were shot after being mistaken for a deer. Those two hunters succumbed to their injuries."

Kim and Lauren Drawdy Kim and Lauren Drawdy.Family photos / via WCBD - TV The state Department of Natural Resources is investigating the killings.

A family member of the victims expressed shock at the fatal shooting.

“I was devastated," Benny Drawdy, the brother of Kim Drawdy, told NBC affiliate WIS-TV in Columbia. "I couldn’t believe it when I first got the news. I said, 'It couldn’t be.' It broke my heart and I couldn’t believe it."

They were shot by one of their two fellow hunters, Colleton County Coroner Richard Harvey told NBC News on Friday.

It wasn't immediately clear if the victims were wearing blaze-orange clothing, which can help hunters differentiate themselves from their prey, officials said.

This accident happened on private property where the wearing of such protective clothing is recommended but not mandated, according to the Department of Natural Resources.

South Carolina has a myriad of deer-hunting seasons depending on the region and whether it's on private or public land. Wednesday would have been the final day of the season for this piece of private property where Kim and Lauren Drawdy were killed, according to the Department of Natural Resources.

VIEW THIS GRAPHIC ON NBCNEWS.COM “Shocked, just shocked,” family friend Shirley Williams told WIS-TV.

"It should have never happened, should have never happened. How some simple hunting trip can turn into a tragedy is beyond me. I don’t know how it could possibly happen.

From: Duke
03-Jan-20
I have a tough time with this... Reckless behavior. Nonetheless, it is a horrific accident and feel absolutely terrible for all of those and their families involved. My prayers go out to them all along with their families and friends.

From: Shuteye
03-Jan-20
I feel sorry for the family, it is horrible. There is no excuse for shooting someone. My dad taught me not to shoot at a deer unless I could make a killing shot through the lungs. Over the years I have let a lot of deer walk by since I didn't have a good shot. This also avoids a lot of crippled deer.

From: Dave
04-Jan-20
How big of a f-ing moron do you have to be to mistake a human, much less two, for a deer??? That guy should rot in jail for manslaughter.

From: Dale06
04-Jan-20
I’m with Dave above. There is absolutely no excuse for this, blaze orange or not.

From: Bowboy
04-Jan-20
I was hunting with my Dad back in Oregon in the early 70's in the late season Blacktail hunt. It was shotgun buck shot or slugs. We were hunting private and the only ones allowed. I was 13yrs old. Dad and me were separated and still hunting about 100yds apart. I was coming to an opening and all of a sudden a shotgun goes off and brush is a flying everywhere. I hit the ground and holler at my dad. He comes running over. I wasn't hit thank goodness. My dad see's two guys standing in the other side of the opening. My dad confronts them and they stated we thought this public land. The shooter stated he saw a deer, but I suspected he saw me in the timber it was pretty thick.

It's very sad this happen! The shooter will have to relive this tragic incident everyday.

From: Pat Lefemine
04-Jan-20
I can’t imagine what that poor mom is going through. It’s tragic to lose your husband, but also to lose your 9 year old child? Devastating doesn’t even cut it.

From: lawdy
04-Jan-20
Deer drives involving more than 4 hunters are illegal in my state. You don’t see them up here with the wilderness, but downstate they do it. Very hard to enforce. People shooting at deer while facing each other at times. Scary. I have blaze orange, but my hat is hot pink. You shoot at that you shouldn’t be in the woods. My rule is I do not move at dusk and always walk out with a headlamp on. Dusk was when I was shot at. A friend of mine was shot by a bow hunter in a tree stand as he went to sit before daylight. The arrow sliced his arm. Very lucky. With no orange law, we are very lucky in this state. Actually I think hunting is a very safe sport. We lose atv riders, snowmobilers, and skiers up here every week. If that was hunting, they would ban it.

From: BOHUNTER09
04-Jan-20
Went on a couple of deer drives during Illinois shotgun season in the late seventies. A slug hit the bridge I was standing on. My last drive.

From: Redheadtwo
04-Jan-20
The father/daughter were in brush so thick it took a few people hacking through the brush to get to the bodies. Talk about a braindead dumbass! The shooter needs to burned!

From: Zim
05-Jan-20
I don't do drives and never will. I wish they were banned in every state. Just don't buy the "tradition" excuse. But what do I know? I'd grow a fat arse and drive around Walmart in a motorized shopping cart before I'd pick up a crossgun too. Lots of laws I disagree with.

From: Timex
05-Jan-20
I believe you just said you want to make a new law. A deer drive did not kill those people an accidental shooting did & until the actual facts are revealed ya just can't do anything but have sympathy for those involved

From: Ucsdryder
05-Jan-20
Zim that’s a slippery slope. That same logic is used for gun regulation.

From: 1boonr
05-Jan-20
You can’t do deer drives on public in Illinois. Why is that?

From: DanaC
05-Jan-20
Too many guns in too small an area?

From: JTV
05-Jan-20
1boonr, I had a post on here detailing where some (Greeks from Illinois/Chicago) tried to do a drive on a State property here years back, a fight ensued in the parking lot later that AM between those doing the drive and those who were in stands and a CO and deputy was called in to prevent further blood shed ....

From: 1boonr
05-Jan-20
DanaC- Shawnee national forest is not small

From: Ambush
05-Jan-20
Does anybody know if it was a single shot from a rifle that killed both or multiple shots from a rifle or shotgun?

From: SteveB
05-Jan-20
So very sad. Clearly avoidable too. Wear orange and verify your target. Would have never happened.

From: Redheadtwo
05-Jan-20
Ambush> Report here in SC is they were killed by a single shotgun blast.

From: 1boonr
06-Jan-20
They use 00 buckshot in South Carolina

From: Scrappy
06-Jan-20
Such a tragic loss of life but please stop calling this an accident. This was the result of careless reckless behavior from a person that at a minimum should never ever be allowed to touch a firearm again in their life.

From: zipper
06-Jan-20
Prayers. Someone should be in jail.

From: Timex
06-Jan-20
Instill you know the facts it's unwise to pass judgment ... WHAT IF a juvenile shot them whose responsibility is it then the supervising adult the child both ? I don't know the facts just giving a possible sinerio.

From: lewis
06-Jan-20
X2 timex

From: HDE
06-Jan-20
Dang. Lots of "stone-throwers" here...

From: Bou'bound
06-Jan-20
It normally does not take anywhere near this long for them to show up

From: GF
07-Jan-20
Maybe there was some Mercy in it....

Sounds like it was at least possible that both were killed without either one knowing what hit them or that the other had been hit as well.

I can’t imagine anything worse than watching one of my boys die and being unable to help or comfort him, but living with the thought of what a child would go through when Daddy is supposed to be there to rescue you... that sense of being alone when they need help the most.... living with that would be right up there.

07-Jan-20
Its hard to imagine the pain this family is in right now. My prayers are with them.

It’s easy for me see how this can happen though. When I was a young bowhunter still in high school. I found myself in a similar situation. I had a stand in a thick bedding area on public land along the Missouri River. This area is restricted to shotgun slugs during gun season to prevent accidents. I waited 2 months to hunt this stand until the rut was on. In ND, firearm season opens on a friday, always at noon in early November. Most every school is closed for the opener.

My plan was to get in my stand early, and put on some orange before the army arrived at noon. If I didn’t kill one that morning maybe the troops would send some deer past me?

I’ll never forget the crazy rutting action I had all morning, bucks chasing does all around my stand! Big bucks I’d never seen before were grunting, fighting, snort wheezing, all with in a short distance of my stand! It was easily the best WT rut hunting I’ve had to this day. I somehow managed to not get a shot that epic morning, but what happend later has made me stay away from that area during gun season ever since.

Around ten minutes to noon I could hear car doors slamming shut about a half mile to the north of me. There was a 2 track trail running east and west, to the south of my stand. I heard a few hunters walking down it also.

Once noon hit it was a steady parade of deer trotting past my stand. The deer were hearing the hunters from the north and getting out of their beds way out ahead of them and sneaking out of that thick bedding area. Still not realizing the danger I was in I stayed in my stand hoping one of those big bucks would be pushed past me. The first shots started ringing out to the north of me and deer were running everywhere. Then the ricochet slugs started flying past my stand! Holy sh!t I need out of here Now! I threw my pack down out of the tree and put my bow on my shoulder and got down as fast as I could, no time for a pull up rope. As I was coming down slugs were zinging through the woods past me, one broke a branch off a tree right next to me! There was now shooting to the south of me, I was in the middle of a crossfire. I laid flat on the ground for a few minutes not sure what the hell to do. I started yelling out don’t shoot, don’t shoot. I put my orange hat on the top cam of my bow and started waving it and steadily yelling “I’m coming out don’t shoot.“ When I got to the 2 track I was still shaking and I met one of the hunters. He was a very young kid with a double barrel 12 gauge. He asked me, did you get one?

I said, “hell no the only thing I got, was about Killed! Walking back to my pickup I was fuming mad, but I should have known better, I shouldn’t have been there.

After seeing this tragic story. It made me think about that morning I had in that river bottom. I my case, I’m sure the hunters were shooting at deer they could actually see in front of them or at running deer. But in the thick woods they had no idea what was beyond 50 yards in front of them. I’m sure this happens thousands of times every year on public land. I think having multiple hunting parties doing their own thing, not coordinating with each other is a wreck waiting to happen. Stay safe out there! Kelly

From: Arrowflinger
07-Jan-20
Beyond tragic, makes me sick to think about it. What the mother of the little girl is going through. Prayers sent for the family.

From: Dave
08-Jan-20
I realize deer drives are long-standing traditions in the midwest but they are a joke and should be outlawed for the very reasons outlined above. It's a bunch of clowns with no firearm safety ethics who have no business being in the woods with a lethal weapon. Anybody who calls this hunting should have their head examined.

08-Jan-20
I realize bowhunting is a long standing tradition across America, but bowhunters are a joke and it should be outlawed for various reasons. It's a bunch of clowns with no formal bowhunting and treestand safety ethics who have no business being in the woods with a lethal weapon. Anybody who calls this hunting should have their head checked. (Modified response from above poster).

See how stupid this sounds when you just change a few words, and what a great template it could be for people who oppose ALL forms of hunting?

From: Bowhunt3138
08-Jan-20
Great post PA !! Prayers to the family. I can't even imagine .

From: Dave
09-Jan-20
Bowhunters don't kill people. Nice try though. You can make all the claims you want about deer drives but they're not "hunting." They're shooting at anything that moves. I'll be the first one to defend different types of hunting but I don't consider deer drives one of them.

From: Bou'bound
09-Jan-20
I realize the Bowsite is a long-standing tradition online but it is a joke and should be outlawed for the very reasons outlined above. It's a bunch of clowns with no insights or experience who have no business being on the web with a communication device. Anybody who calls this learning should have their head examined.

From: Timex
09-Jan-20
Well sir (Dave) I disagree. Myself & my friends drove deer for over 20 years with bows, muzzleloader & rifles & one of the most effective was to spread out 100 yards apart & sneak thru standing corn on windy days with bows. We would also put shooter-standers. At the saddles ,benches known ridgetop xings on top of the mountain & certain hollows off of the top then drop down & still hunt the thickets along the bottom standards could be 1/2 mile from the still hunters but tecnally its a drive & often times the still hunters would be more successful than standers. So my friend there are many variations of a deer drive. But ultimately a deer drive did not kill those poor people poor firearms handling did.

From: RK
09-Jan-20
I've only been on two drives. Both in the early 80s in Montana Scared to death. REALLY sucked

But I don't think they should be outlawed. I do think they should be regulated

After reading this thread I think it should be against the law to have any deer drive unless said deer drive is organized and run by a bowsiter.

Problem solved !!

From: Tlhbow
09-Jan-20
During the next ice age , those that survived will be out on deer drives and others will be in camp chewing hides and such. It's not gonna stop because of what's read on the enter Web

From: grizzly
09-Jan-20
I took two deer on new years day muzzy hunting on a couple of drives. Two man drives. My brother ambled along unarmed and i waited on the escape paths. Very safe except for the deer. The last batch is in the canner cooling down now. You can do managed drives. Self control is important. Some people shouldn't hunt let alone use weapons. Thats the part that is hard to regulate.

From: Rut Nut
09-Jan-20
From: Dave 09-Jan-20

Bowhunters don't kill people. Nice try though.

Fairfield Man Dies in Hunting Accident By Andy Waterman WAYNE COUNTY- Illinois State Police are investigating the death of a Fairfield man killed in a hunting accident Thursday night. It was around 6:45 on Thursday evening when 20 yr. Old Aaron Long and his 16 yr. Old friend were hunting turkeys here down this path at Sam Dale Lake in rural Wayne County, but just minutes later, the 16 year old friend made a fatal mistake. Wayne County Sheriff Jim Hinkle says, "He believed he was shooting at a turkey, and after shooting he quickly realized that he had shot his friend." Hinkle says the 20 year old didn't live long after the shot. The arrow pierced Long in the left side of his back near his heart. Shortly after the accident his friend found a group of hunters and they called 9-1-1. The sheriff says because it was an accident- It's unlikely the young man will be charged, "It's just an extreme tragedy and this young man and the families of everybody involved is something they got to live with for the rest of their lives."

Father accidentally shoots son with arrow while deer hunting. Associated Press October 29, 2000 NORTH WEBSTER, Ind. -- A Kosciusko County man was killed Sunday on a hunting trip when his father mistook him for a deer and shot him with an arrow. Frederick C. Searfoss, 28, of Syracuse was pronounced dead early Sunday morning at the scene of the accident in an area near North Webster, about 30 miles northwest of Fort Wayne. The Indiana Department of Natural Resources reported that Searfoss was bow hunting with his father, Jerry Searfoss, and a friend, Daryl Gans. While Frederick Searfoss was on his way to a tree stand he was mistaken for a deer by his father, who later told conservation officers he thought the sound his son was making was a deer walking. Jerry Searfoss fired his bow and said he thought he saw a buck take the arrow, but then Frederick Searfoss called out to the other hunters that he had been hit. Jerry Searfoss and Gans located Frederick Searfoss, and while one of the men attempted to control the bleeding, the other hunter sought help. Emergency crews dispatched a Lifeline helicopter, but Searfoss died before he could be transported. DNR officials said the incident is considered an accidental shooting and is no longer under investigation.

From: Timex
10-Jan-20
Well absolutely not what this thread is about. But to all you anti drive folks & the , I was scared to death or bullets were whizzing past my head or busting tree limbs all around me. It must have horrified you. But ultimately it's a method of hunting as old as hunting itself. & whether it's just myself & my son & one or the other after the morning sit sneaks towards the other or a few of us do a slow push through a 30 acre wood lot in my 45 years of hunting iv never had any negative experiences associated with this method of hunting.... in fact rabbit quail pheasant and any flushing bird being walked up by humans is a drive ya wanna outlaw that to. For the last time ....improper firearms handling-safety killed those people. Not a drive!!!

10-Jan-20

10-Jan-20
Griz and Timex, your right. And I don’t think they need to be banned. The point of my post was if your hunting public land and it’s thick cover .... you never know what Elmer Fudd is doing around the corner. It’s not that you can’t do it safely.

Since 98% of ND is non-forested Deer drives are a big part of our hunting strategy. And it’s very effective. We would push cattail sloughs and CRP. We got really good at it. Hardly letting a buck get away if it was one we wanted. But the country was open and everyone knew what the plan was.

From: Dave
13-Jan-20
Nice try Rut Nut. How long did it take you to dig up 2 obscure accidents from 20 yrs ago? Now use your fingers to do a search on how many get killed during deer drives and let's compare the numbers. As for driving through standing corn with rifles and muzzleloaders on a windy day, all I can say is WOW! I guess you can't fix stupid. Ever heard of knowing your target background?? Did you guys never take hunter safety???

From: Rut Nut
13-Jan-20
From: Dave 09-Jan-20

Bowhunters don't kill people. Nice try though.

Apparently they DO! ;-) Took me about 5 min to find those incidents while I was looking for an incident that happened in NY or NJ about 6 or 7 years ago- it was local, so I heard about it on the radio. Couldn't find that one, so I didn't include it- but it was a fatality. BTW, that first one happened in 2009.

From: Timex
13-Jan-20
Dave go back & re read my words I said with (bows) in the standing corn it's a proven great way to hunt & your target is 20yards MAX i quess you've never snuck through standing corn. I believe your just looking for an argument !!! can't fix stupid is right

From: Bucks-n-Bows
13-Jan-20
I don't want to make a tragic situation any worse, but from the info available, I can't imagine any circumstance where this shooting was anything but intentional. If I was the one investigating this, I would be treating it as murder not an accident.

From: elkstabber
13-Jan-20

elkstabber's embedded Photo
elkstabber's embedded Photo
Here is a good example showing how it happens while dog hunting. This is from a youtube video of deer hunting with dogs. Shotguns with 00 buckshot is typical. Blaze orange wouldn't prevent these accidents. Gun safety is cultural.

From: grizzly
13-Jan-20
At least they have a camera for evidence.

From: lawdy
14-Jan-20
My Physics class did an experiment back before PC hit on the acceleration of gravity. We have a huge flat field behind our school that was all gravel before we installed a track and soccer field. We shot a .22, a 60 pound compound bow with an overdraw, an air rifle, and my #46 longbow. All at the same time, perfectly horizontal, from stands at a height of 1.5M. All hit the ground at the same time. When the .22 and air gun pellets hit they kicked up dust, as did the arrows. The only difference was the horizontal distance covered down range. We were also able to calculate the average horizontal velocity. I will never forget the kids amazement that the arrows went only about 50 meters for the compound, and 46 for my longbow. We then shot a shotgun with #6 shot, and the pellets never made it much beyond 50M. Remember, all shot with barrels and arrows perfectly level. It still illustrates how limited a bow is compared to a gun, especially a rifle. If I remember right, the .22 went close to 100M. This experiment was done in the 80’s before guns were banned on school grounds. The principal was there and couldn’t believe the results. He had just bought a new handgun and went to his office to get it to test. We set it up with a level at 1.5 M height and he got only 80 or so meters. It was a 357. He had it because a mother bear with cubs had been hanging around school. Nowadays, we would all be in jail.

From: Timex
14-Jan-20
Completely unrelated but I can't believe how many discussions iv gotten in trying to explain to someone that a bullet doesn't rise and fall from the centerline of the barrel. Gravity is affecting the bullet from the second it leaves the barrel the sights or scope elevate the barrel to create the desired sight in distance. Bit a bullet never rises above barrel center line. So so so many people don't understand this

From: Dave
15-Jan-20
^^^Not true if you're shooting a shotgun with buck shot.

From: TrapperKayak
15-Jan-20
Lawdy is right, regardless of horizontal velocity, vertical drop is the same velocity with the same mass object. However, a feather is not going to drop at the same velocity as a marble.

From: TrapperKayak
15-Jan-20
However, if both were dropped in a vacuum, they would both land at the same time. The theory is only 100% true in a vacuum for any object.

From: TrapperKayak
15-Jan-20
I would like to know WHERE it would be legal, ethical, logical or safe to shoot down a road for any reason, except in a law enforcement situation. That picture above should never even be considered.

From: elkstabber
15-Jan-20
TrapperKayak, shooting down a logging road is legal in numerous southern states because of the popularity of dog hunting. Not legal to shoot down a publicly maintained road. There is no doubt that dog hunters make the rest of us look bad.

From: Catscratch
15-Jan-20
The bullet does however go above the plane of sight (if the barrel is angled upward to account for distance). I think this is where a lot of people get hung up and call it "bullet rise", because the bullet is rising above their crosshairs.

In NO situation is it legal, ethical, logical, or safe to shoot without knowing 100% what the target is and what is behind it. Absolutely no animal is worth endangering another person's life.

From: lawdy
15-Jan-20
The most amusing thing with that experiment was the disbelief of the student who brought in his compound. He couldn’t believe how far his arrow went. He figured it would reach way out there. It was a real eye-opener as to the relative safety factor of bow hunting in congested areas. Gravity and air resistance are unmerciful as all of us have experienced with a nice buck. The bear hanging around was a big one. I suggested to the principal that with a big sow and a 357, that he file off the front sight. That way it would not hurt so much when that bear grabbed his handgun and shoved it up his ass. I don’t remember his retort, but it wasn’t nice.

From: TrapperKayak
15-Jan-20
Elk S, regardless of legality, it's not a good idea to shoot down any road. And dog hunters don't make any one look bad, careless hunters do, no matter what method they are using. Maybe some dog hunters take more risky chances in some cases, who knows. Overzealousness is usually behind hunting accidents. Dogs may get people excited hearing them bay or frantically working a bird or animal, and guys get the fever and shoot without good judgement. That may account for more dog hunting accidents. Catscratch you are correct in your bullet rise statement. The bullet cannot rise above the plane of the barrel core if fired from a horizontal plane.

From: Bucks-n-Bows
15-Jan-20
A bullet never rises above the line of the barrel. The difference is that depending on what distance you are sighted in at, your scope is on a different line than your barrel.

From: GF
15-Jan-20
You know, I was just thinking... I don’t recall that anybody here jumped all over Dick Cheney (or suggested a criminal investigation) when he dusted his hunting companion with bird-shot...

Some poor bastard down there has to live with his mistake, as does the family of the victims. Maybe just take it all in as an incredibly painful reminder of the importance of safety out there?

From: TrapperKayak
15-Jan-20
I vaguely recall all the Dems did...as in another call out for gun control, but they don't need much of a reason. Yeah, this person is dealing with the consequences. But all the posts on here except maybe a few, are probably posted by people who would like to prevent a repeat somewhere if at all possible. At least that is my intention.

From: Timex
15-Jan-20
Dave I now know I was correct when I said you are looking for an argument. A good buckshot, waterfowl or turkey shotgun will put a shot pattern inside 20" at 40 yards. But somehow you believe lead shot defies gravity unlike any other projectile. ??? For once I agree with GF that once the facts of this tragedy are revealed. At this point all we can do is learn from the mistakes made

From: Russ Koon
15-Jan-20
Never did a multi-person deer drive, but I did come very close to shooting another hunter once while quail hunting.

My B-I-L and were hunting together and had entered a field from the north end, and another group of three had who we had no knowledge of entered from the south and were out of sight from our position. They came up a slight rise and a covey got up and flew directly west. As I swung on them and was just catching up to the pair I wanted to shoot, I caught the small patch of blaze orange that was barely becoming visible directly beyond the quail at what appeared to be ground level! Luckily, it was enough to trigger my reaction to abort the shot at the last split second. The group approaching from the south had a similar reaction and were also swinging on the same birds when they also saw our blaze orange hats just peeking over the rise from their side. Our quail loads would not have likely had a fatal effect on each other, but the shots would have been aimed directly enough at the other guys to stand a very real chance of peppering each other with shot in as serious a way as could be arranged with bird shot a combined distance of about seventy yards. That rise in the field would have been just about perfect to put each of us in the midst of the descending shot from the other group.

Made me more aware of taking into account not only the SEEN endangered people and objects, but the UNSEEN ones downrange that may be out of sight over the rise or through the woods.

From: Kwikdraw
15-Jan-20
No matter what a person hunts, or where, or w/ what weapon, killing or maiming a fellow hunter and saying he/she was mistaken for any animal, is absolutely ridiculous! Anyone killing an individual while hunting should be appropriately punished, and barred from hunting anything w/ any weapon, for life! No exceptions!

From: Timex
15-Jan-20
I did some searches & all I found was there were 4 hunters the Drawdys & 2 others & one of the other hunters mistook the Drawdys for a deer. The coroner released that both died from buckshot pellets in the chest. I could not find any other explanation from dnr - law enforcement personnel. The accident happened new years day

From: GF
15-Jan-20
You don’t suppose most people would choose to quit anyway, do you?

This is why blaze orange requirements are good, and why I think pop-up blinds are not necessarily a good idea. I’m not at all convinced that they should even be allowed during firearms seasons and I have my reservations about archery seasons, especially where X-bows are legal.

I’m not sure whether the fact that they are easily mounted with a scope increases or decreases the safety factor.

From: Trophyhill
15-Jan-20
A tragic reminder that accidents can and do happen. Prayers for the families. When I was in 10th grade, our principle was tragically killed in a hunting accident in Ohio while deer hunting. You'd think that you are safer in an area with no high power rifles.

From: Timex
16-Jan-20
Ultimately our sport (hunting) is a very safe one I'd say just guessing ...that one is 100 times more likely to be injured or killed from a tree stand accident &1000 times more likely to be injured or killed in an automobile accident than shot hunting. & GF I'm pretty sure it's law in VA that if your in an enclosed blind during firearms season that it has to have oronge displayed

From: midwest
16-Jan-20
"... I think pop-up blinds are not necessarily a good idea. I’m not at all convinced that they should even be allowed during firearms seasons and I have my reservations about archery seasons, especially where X-bows are legal."

In Iowa, during gun seasons, all blinds must have a minimum 12" square of blaze orange visible from all sides.

From: Russ Koon
16-Jan-20
That way here in IN, too.

From: GF
16-Jan-20
Good to hear it - I’m not sure that all of the states are on-board with that yet...

From: Russ Koon
16-Jan-20
Wasn't universally popular as a new reg. Some of us who had previously brushed in our blinds felt like it was pretty much missing the point of being in a blind to start with, and some of us who had previously lost blinds and their contents to trespassing thieves felt like it was aiding and abetting the enemy.

But it was done "in the name of safety" so nothing could be said about it by any elected official.

From: Russ Koon
16-Jan-20
Wasn't universally popular as a new reg. Some of us who had previously brushed in our blinds felt like it was pretty much missing the point of being in a blind to start with, and some of us who had previously lost blinds and their contents to trespassing thieves felt like it was aiding and abetting the enemy.

But it was done "in the name of safety" so nothing could be said about it by any elected official.

From: Jaquomo
16-Jan-20

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
I had to produce this when a health coverage provider listed hunting as an exemption to coverage based upon inclusion as a "risky activity". They backed down and officially changed their policy.

From: Zim
16-Jan-20
Russ, Exact same thing happened to me hunting quail on the Kenedy Ranch TX way back in the late 80’s. I still have flashes of the barrel in my face to this day.

If you’d like to see some ludicrous deer drives go to YouTube and search Iowa Rathbun Lake Deer Drive or Hunt. Should still be there.

From: Catscratch
16-Jan-20
Another "almost" story. I was sitting in a treestand. A solo quail hunter came walking along the treerow. I figured I would stay still and let him pass without him ever knowing I was there... until a covey flushed and he swung right through me. I wasn't wearing orange and it was just a freak situation where we all 3 (him, the quail, and I) met together at the same time. It could have been bad, completely accidental, and not his fault. I didn't know the quail were there, but should have announced my presence as he approached anyway.

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