Mathews Inc.
Eradicating Mtn Goat Grand Teton Park
Mountain Goat
Contributors to this thread:
Bowboy 06-Jan-20
midwest 06-Jan-20
brettpsu 06-Jan-20
Pat Lefemine 06-Jan-20
Zbone 06-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 06-Jan-20
Inshart 06-Jan-20
Ermine 06-Jan-20
smarba 06-Jan-20
Brotsky 06-Jan-20
Glunt@work 06-Jan-20
ND String Puller 06-Jan-20
Paul@thefort 06-Jan-20
RT 06-Jan-20
RK 06-Jan-20
Mule Power 06-Jan-20
Paul@thefort 06-Jan-20
Jims 06-Jan-20
RK 06-Jan-20
TD 06-Jan-20
BULELK1 07-Jan-20
Mule Power 07-Jan-20
TXHunter 07-Jan-20
Mule Power 07-Jan-20
Glunt@work 07-Jan-20
TD 07-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 07-Jan-20
Zbone 07-Jan-20
midwest 17-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 17-Jan-20
Bowboy 18-Jan-20
brettpsu 18-Jan-20
Chris S 18-Jan-20
Chris S 18-Jan-20
ELK ELSEWHERE 18-Jan-20
Zbone 18-Jan-20
luckychucky 18-Jan-20
Zbone 18-Jan-20
Zbone 18-Jan-20
luckychucky 18-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 18-Jan-20
midwest 19-Jan-20
Bowboy 19-Jan-20
Chris S 20-Jan-20
From: Bowboy
06-Jan-20

Bowboy's Link
There in the process of eradicating about 100 mountain goats in Grand Teton Park. Using sharpshooters. IMO they should have opened it up to the general public. What a wasted opportunity. I'm sure they'll leave them lay and rot.

From: midwest
06-Jan-20
Probably has to do with the fact that it's a National Park.

Is there a risk with the goats spreading some kind of disease to the sheep? Pneumonia maybe?

From: brettpsu
06-Jan-20
Waste for sure! What was the final kill from this past fall in unit 4? Crazy unit 4 was 100% draw odds for non-res and 13% for residents.

From: Pat Lefemine
06-Jan-20
Why not relocate them? here in Connecticut they relocate black bears all the time. ?

Stupid

From: Zbone
06-Jan-20
How in the world can or do they consider them and invasive species... They did the same thing a few years ago in Washington state saying they were an invasive species there too, and how can that be when they are native species all up the SW Alaskan coast...

From: TrapperKayak
06-Jan-20
Yet they (Fed govt) lease Fed. lands to sheep ranchers and let them mix with wild sheep down in the Wind River where they spread disease to bighorns. No logic here.

From: Inshart
06-Jan-20
If they want to eradicate an invasive species ..... start with the invasive wolf.

From: Ermine
06-Jan-20
Domestic sheep are a much bigger threat to wild sheep in my opinion. And those maggots are running all over the mtns.

Too bad they didn’t issue special hunts for these or relocate the animals somewhere

From: smarba
06-Jan-20
Where are the huggers crying about this? Nowhere...they don't care one bit about prey species. They only care about predators and there is a reason for it. To eliminate the need for human hunters.

From: Brotsky
06-Jan-20
+1 smarba, hit that nail squarely on the head. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have an elk hunt in Grand Teton already?

From: Glunt@work
06-Jan-20
Feds. Much easier to write a check with my money instead of deal with their bosses who would like to utilize these goats and their other bosses who hate the idea of hunting them for recreation.

Professional bullets are just easier. Like when conflicts over a 4wd road arise. Just easier to lock the gate.

06-Jan-20
They do hunt cow elk here in TR National Park. They have a injured military hunting program to manage the herd.

From: Paul@thefort
06-Jan-20
a few years back, because of the over abundance of elk in the Rock Mt Nat Park in Colorado, the DOW and Park developed a "citizens" culling teams to shoot and reduce the number of cow elk in the Park. A "citizens culling team" was political correct, ie, Not hunters (bad, bad) to make the front pages of the Denver Post. THe meat was donated if not CWD positive.. Originally the Park wanted to use Federal sharp shooters and then bury the dead elk in the Park at a cost of 19 million over a 15 year period. There was an outcry from hunters/organizations to be more thoughtful and utilize the meat. There has not been a cow elk killed for the past 6-8 years after the initial few years. If there was a will, there is a way.

From: RT
06-Jan-20
The bozos could have made 2k a permit.

From: RK
06-Jan-20
How did the goats get there to begin with. Anybody know??

From: Mule Power
06-Jan-20
Smarba X3! Are we witnessing the end of the world as we once knew it. Jesus!

From: Paul@thefort
06-Jan-20
you can read the total story on Google-- Mt Goats in the Tetons. The story does state the goats migrated in and are an invasive species that compete with the declining Big Horn Sheep that are native. While aerial gunning will be used this winter, ground hunters may be used later. Do not know if real hunters ie, locals and not feds. Seems like there is local support to get rid of the goats. Colorado has done something similar with invasive goats but allows hunters to kill them but on state/nat forest land

From: Jims
06-Jan-20
A bunch of hogwash if you ask me! They do the same thing in RMNP...but keep it hush--hush! They really have no proof either way about goats being non-native and spreading disease that kills sheep.

Someone needs to find out how much they are going to pay to have the goats eradicated! They were going to have sharp shooters thin the elk herd in RMNP a few years ago until they found out how much it was going to cost to have them do this. If they have to shoot them doesn't it make sense to have hunters pay to hunt them rather than pay a fortune to have sharp shooter shoot them?

From: RK
06-Jan-20
Paul

Thanks for your post

Putting. Some perspective to this helps

From: TD
06-Jan-20
There are no hard an fast "rules" on how wildlife is "managed" in national Parks. Feds have proven over and over again..... they can do whatever gives em a tingle up their leg. And NP status (as with NM status) they need no public input. Silly deplorables.....

From: BULELK1
07-Jan-20
What's even more sad about it for me is that these Mnt. Goats will just stand there like they are getting their pic taken then BOOM!

Didn't they do something similar in Colorado/RMNP?

Dang it, Robb

From: Mule Power
07-Jan-20
If an animal that migrates naturally, on it’s own, into an area is an invasive species that must be exterminated then wtf do you call an animal that was trapped in another country and dumped off by what has to be the dumbest animal on this planet!!! This a as stupid as that core math crap where 2 plus 2 equals anything but 4!

For the life of me I cannot imagine grown men sitting in a room concluding that this is the best and most logical solution. I guess it’s better than rounding up another hundred wolves to do our job.

From: TXHunter
07-Jan-20
Wow, lots of misplaced anger and overreactions here based on not knowing the facts a/k/a ignorance.

Paul summed it up. They are invasive, they are negatively affecting native species, and they are being managed. Period. It’s not earth-shattering. It’s actually good policy. There has already been extensive hunting allowed of them in the Park and many have been taken out through this approach. This action is to take out those that remain. Washington did the same thing at their NP.

It’s funny to see this related to the wolf issue, because what is happening here is exactly what should be happening with the wolves (as many of you freaking out about this point out all the time).

But because these are fuzzy ungulates even many hunters disengage their brains, forget about science/conservation and squeal like a bunch of Disney Moms because some cute animals are being removed.

From: Mule Power
07-Jan-20
You can’t manage wolves like goats. They are very nocturnal and just plain smart. Managing goats is... or could be a great opportunity for hunters. One where the state could make money instead of spending it. In my opinion there would be many more people interested in spending money on licenses, flights, accommodations etc to go hunt mountain goats than to go attempt to kill a wolf. Wolf tags are otc. Make the goat tags otc and you’ll see the difference.

From: Glunt@work
07-Jan-20
I have no issue with removing them, I would just rather let the public do it.

They have been doing hunts outside the park but the goats dont cooperate by leaving the park enough to allow high success.

From: TD
07-Jan-20
I've been on many eradication hunts, probably the only times I've picked up a rifle in the last 30 years. We were effective, recovered and made use of the animals and it didn't cost a dime of taxpayer money. In this case it could bring in money to the state/fed. And yeah..... "migration" and "invasive" in the same sentence tends to fly in the face of common sense. More so when held up in front of a background of the capture of a species from literally thousands of miles away and forcibly dumped in your backyard. If the biologists have a sound reason to remove them I have no problem with it. And that's the gist of what I read above.

But lets dispense with the politically correct BS of calling them "invasive" or in that you "can't" let hunters do the management. They, or rather some of them, don't WANT hunting involved as that is admitting the need for hunters having a justifiable role in management. It CAN be done, and don't let anybody tell you it can't. That is more political than sound management practice, much less common sense. And the niche industry that has been created that follows this government money and grants...... follow the money connections there too. For those in charge, much less work to sit at your desk and apply for grants and write contracts using OPM to fulfill goals than get out from behind it and organize such hunts. And I've had state officials tell me so to my face, word for word..... "It's just too much work....." In this case maybe too much of a political fight as well. It's ok to PAY someone to kill them (or if they exist simply as wolf food). Just so long as nobody enjoys it. So woke....

From: TrapperKayak
07-Jan-20
Lemme guess, prior to 200 years ago in the Rockies, there were no Mt goats living in the same areas or at least Mt ranges as Bighorn Sheep? So they are not native, but invasive? They spread diseases to Bighorns? So now they are re establishing, and too competitive with Bighorns, so they need to be eliminated? Why did the goats disappear in the first place? How did the BH sheep get so vulnerable? Who exactly is in charge of what management now, and who has been for the last 200 years? I think its time we stop playing God with our wildlife resources, forever th inki,g we know whats best, then someone new comes along and changes priorities based on some new value placed by a new interest group....etc etc. What the hey, we are NOT GOD. What we truly need is a vast reduction in the human population. And if not, limit WHERE they can live, and leave the wildlife, including adequate winter range, unoccupied so the wildlife can live as close to pre-civilization as possible. Well we all know this aint gonna happen, but killing Mt goats is not the answer either. Leave them be. Get the domestic animals out first, then go from there.

From: Zbone
07-Jan-20
2X ya TrapperKayak... Your whole post, and your questions:

" Lemme guess, prior to 200 years ago in the Rockies, there were no Mt goats living in the same areas or at least Mt ranges as Bighorn Sheep? So they are not native, but invasive? "

From: midwest
17-Jan-20

midwest's Link
Looks like G&F is trying to step in.

From: TrapperKayak
17-Jan-20
Good for them, that's common sense talking right there.

From: Bowboy
18-Jan-20
Hope it works out! The problem is the Feds don't always use common sense!

From: brettpsu
18-Jan-20
Wyoming G&F are one of the best! Good for them to take a stand.

From: Chris S
18-Jan-20
This may be a dumb question from a flat lander but....Is there a way to trap or dart some of these animals for removal and transport elsewhere? They are apparently a healthy herd and I’m sure there are places that they would thrive if transplanted. Or supplement a herd that has diminished. I know it would take a ton of logistics but why not. They want to transplant wolves everywhere at taxpayer expenses. Just seems ridiculous to eradicate them with prejudice.

From: Chris S
18-Jan-20
This may be a dumb question from a flat lander but....Is there a way to trap or dart some of these animals for removal and transport elsewhere? They are apparently a healthy herd and I’m sure there are places that they would thrive if transplanted. Or supplement a herd that has diminished. I know it would take a ton of logistics but why not. They want to transplant wolves everywhere at taxpayer expenses. Just seems ridiculous to eradicate them with prejudice.

18-Jan-20
I thought the states "owned" the animals.

From: Zbone
18-Jan-20
Chris S - I've see videos of F&G officials aerial netting both wild sheep and goats, and even deer... They use a chopper and some type of net gun... It's pretty cool how they do it...

From: luckychucky
18-Jan-20
https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/local/2018/09/13/mountain-goats-airlifted-out-olympic-national-park/1293142002/

From: Zbone
18-Jan-20

Zbone's Link
Here's what they did in Washington's Olympic National Park:

https://www.thedailyworld.com/news/third-round-for-aerial-mountain-goat-transfers/

From: Zbone
18-Jan-20
luckychucky - Just seen now you beat me to it...8^)

From: luckychucky
18-Jan-20

luckychucky's Link
Well at least you did the proper link posting. I have had Mtn goats walk right into camp looking for pee in the Royal Basin in the Olympics. They have no fear of humans where they are not hunted.

From: TrapperKayak
18-Jan-20
Somewhere on a Jackson Hole thread here someone posted pics of a bunch of mt goats in the middle of the road going over Teton Pass outside of Jackson Hole. That would be a good place to capture some of them for transplant, at least its a start anyway.

From: midwest
19-Jan-20

midwest's Link
Well, that didn't go far...smh.

From: Bowboy
19-Jan-20
Where are all the animal right activitist.

From: Chris S
20-Jan-20
Just shameful waste of an amazing resource. Sickening. And somehow the antis will flip it and say HUNTERS are killing the goats ruthlessly

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