Guided Alaska Hunting
Can the Colorado wolf project be sued?
Moose
Contributors to this thread:
MichaelArnette 09-Jan-20
Glunt@work 09-Jan-20
Ermine 09-Jan-20
Grasshopper 10-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 10-Jan-20
lawdy 10-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 10-Jan-20
LBshooter 10-Jan-20
INDBowhunter2 10-Jan-20
HH 10-Jan-20
leftee 10-Jan-20
GF 10-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 10-Jan-20
Missouribreaks 10-Jan-20
Treeline 10-Jan-20
Chasewild 10-Jan-20
BigOzzie 10-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 10-Jan-20
Glunt@work 10-Jan-20
RT 10-Jan-20
HH 10-Jan-20
lawdy 10-Jan-20
RT 10-Jan-20
HH 10-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 10-Jan-20
Huntcell 10-Jan-20
Missouribreaks 11-Jan-20
HH 11-Jan-20
SixLomaz 11-Jan-20
SixLomaz 11-Jan-20
Trial153 11-Jan-20
HH 11-Jan-20
Jaquomo 11-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 12-Jan-20
HH 12-Jan-20
Trial153 12-Jan-20
HH 12-Jan-20
MichaelArnette 12-Jan-20
MichaelArnette 12-Jan-20
MichaelArnette 12-Jan-20
HH 12-Jan-20
Jaquomo 12-Jan-20
HH 12-Jan-20
Treeline 12-Jan-20
HH 12-Jan-20
lawdy 12-Jan-20
sdkhunter 12-Jan-20
Treeline 13-Jan-20
Glunt@work 13-Jan-20
MichaelArnette 14-Jan-20
KSflatlander 14-Jan-20
Glunt@work 14-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 14-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 14-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 14-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 14-Jan-20
Glunt@work 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
MichaelArnette 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
Jaquomo 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
cnelk 15-Jan-20
Treeline 15-Jan-20
Jaquomo 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
WapitiBob 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
MichaelArnette 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
RT 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
ground hunter 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
ground hunter 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
HH 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
ground hunter 15-Jan-20
BigSkyHntr 16-Jan-20
Ermine 16-Jan-20
Treeline 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Bowbender 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
RT 16-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 16-Jan-20
Treeline 16-Jan-20
KSflatlander 16-Jan-20
RT 16-Jan-20
KSflatlander 16-Jan-20
HH 16-Jan-20
RT 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
HH 16-Jan-20
KSflatlander 16-Jan-20
RT 16-Jan-20
KSflatlander 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Glunt@work 16-Jan-20
RT 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
KSflatlander 16-Jan-20
Treeline 16-Jan-20
Brun 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Treeline 16-Jan-20
HH 16-Jan-20
HH 16-Jan-20
HH 17-Jan-20
Bowbender 17-Jan-20
HH 17-Jan-20
HH 17-Jan-20
HH 17-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 17-Jan-20
RT 17-Jan-20
HH 17-Jan-20
RT 17-Jan-20
HH 17-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 17-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 17-Jan-20
HH 17-Jan-20
09-Jan-20
Any lawyers here willing to weigh in on how the Rocky Mountain wolf project could be sued? In any way? By any means?

Can we sue them based on infringement against the endangered species act due to the risk to the endangered Mexican wolf?

Can we sue them for overstepping the endangered species act in any way?

Can the Rocky Mountain elk foundation sue them for endangerment to elk herds?

Can cattlemen’s Association’s sue them for endangerment?

Is there anyway we with Hunting interests and a desire to see moose and elk populations thrive can sue them?

From: Glunt@work
09-Jan-20
Not a lawyer but you can sue about anyone for anything. I believe you need to have incurred some damage or harm to win.

I think the term for stopping them before any damage is done would be an injunction.

From: Ermine
09-Jan-20
Something needs to happen

From: Grasshopper
10-Jan-20
If it passes, I think you would sue the state to get the new law overturned.

From: Grey Ghost
10-Jan-20
If it passes, the only way it can be implemented is if the Feds delist wolves in CO. I think your money would be better spent supporting efforts to keep them listed, then wasting it on frivolous lawsuits.

Matt

From: lawdy
10-Jan-20
Bureaucracies can only be stopped by lack of money or injunctions. Injunctions are expensive. Electing politicians willing to defund agencies is the answer but impossible in this new order society. Until the right people get hurt, you are basically screwed.

From: Ucsdryder
10-Jan-20
That’s actually a great idea. Lawsuit filed on behalf of ranchers, outfitters, etc for loss of revenue, etc.

From: LBshooter
10-Jan-20
I would sue them for the fact that wolves fart a lot and that gas will increase global warming. When you mention GW these days it seems to,work on everything. Find the right judge and an injunction can be placed , the question is for how long? As mentioned before, cute and cuddly wins out most of the time.

10-Jan-20
I mentioned the same thing in the Ideas for Stop the Wolf thread.

The surrounding states and even the Colorado guides and outfitters and ranching agencies need to sue for future damages due to wolf infringement.

That will be the only way to at least delay it and possibly stop it. If it hits the ballot, it will pass. Too many voters think they are cuddly, lovable pets.

A few hundred million dollar lawsuit will at least get people's attention. Billboards with wolves killing pets unfortunately I don't think will get it stopped.

From: HH
10-Jan-20
Sure they can sue for an injunction and keep it in court until it is fully adjudicated. Takes $$$$$

Don't tip your hand to GG he's only going to run to the Wolfies and tip em off!

K~

From: leftee
10-Jan-20
Damages can't be speculative.I see no way to successfully sue anyone at this point.Sadly. Injunction?For what?To stop a vote?Not likely.

From: GF
10-Jan-20
“If it passes, the only way it can be implemented is if the Feds delist wolves in CO.”

So it’s pretty straightforward.... We need to prevent the feds from delisting wolves in CO.

So let’s talk PETA Into spending their money on campaigning against a delisting, and Pat can get DJ to talk POTUS into pretending to want to delist them, but never let it happen.

Problem solved.

At least until the wolves take matters into their own paws and just Show Up.

From: Grey Ghost
10-Jan-20
"That will be the only way to at least delay it and possibly stop it. If it hits the ballot, it will pass."

Ugh...some people don't seem to understand. If the bill passes, the wolves still can't be reintroduced until the Feds delist them. Until then, the Feds control the fate of wolves in CO. If it passes, the ballot initiative expires in 2023. So, if the wolves stay listed for 3 more years, and the Feds don't initiate their own reintroduction program during that time, which they've shown no desire to do, then the ballot initiative goes away.

I say keep them listed, thereby using the wolf lovers tactics against them.

Matt

10-Jan-20
Who puts up the money for a lengthy lawsuit, likely followed by appeals?

From: Treeline
10-Jan-20
Wolfies are already dumping them in CO and have been for a while.

From: Chasewild
10-Jan-20
As leftee said, there is no injury -- everything is speculative at this point -- including whether the ballot will become law.

All of your energies are better spent politically, not legally.

From: BigOzzie
10-Jan-20
I think a little research would be productive, use their tactics against them.

Here in MT there are a handful of groups that sue to stop everything eco related. The friends of the wild swan, being one of them. I think really if a person went through and made lists of the the people on the membership lists of such groups it is the same 100 people in all the groups is just looks good to have 6 or 8 groups listed on the law suit.

They sue to stop forest service thinning units, logging units, trail development, Road improvements, and the do it on the basis of Environmental impact statements. Claiming that such and such cannot be allowed to happen because the impact statement from the USFS is incomplete and we do not know how it will impact the such and such turtle.

I would think that you could sue on the basis that there has not been a complete study on the impact of reintroduction of wolves. We could sue to protect some miniscule item that we think wolf reintroduction would hinder. I don't think I would use impact on elk and deer just because that is likely studied already, I would use impact on some high altitude plant that the elk and deer keep under control through browse. Therefore introduction of wolves would reduce populations of ungulates and thus the plant would take over and ruin the environment so that blue grouse could not reproduce.

bla blah blah, I am not well informed about things of the law I just keep reading this scenario in the news time after time.

oz

From: Grey Ghost
10-Jan-20
"Wolfies are already dumping them in CO and have been for a while."

You got any proof of that? Do share.

Matt

From: Glunt@work
10-Jan-20
My buddies in MN wouldn't appreciate me fighting to keep wolves listed.

From: RT
10-Jan-20
There's no chance politically. There's also no going back to conservative Colorado.

The only hope is for biologists to speak up and defend what they tried to manage for decades.

From: HH
10-Jan-20
Tree

Yer on it like Blue Bonnet.

HH

10-Jan-20
There is strength in numbers. Everyone needs to share the snot out of the video that shows two dogs being killed and dragged away from their yard by wolves. There are far more pet owners whose heartstrings would be tugged by that video then hunters and ranchers combined. I know mine sure was! When someone pictures that happening to their own beloved pet they're more likely to do something to prevent it.

~Cheryl

From: lawdy
10-Jan-20
When they were considering bringing in wolves here I said at a hearing that with coyote decimation, and wolves, no biological reason to have deer hunting. Therefore we need to call for huge cuts in fish and game personnel. Final decision was no wolf reintroduction. If they come on their own, so be it. It was passed in a bill. I also suggested that, we could replace paid biologists with retired ones or ones like myself that hold biology degrees and taught for a living. That, and with no wardens, we could rely on the goodness of all to not hunt or poach. Sounds like a winner.

From: RT
10-Jan-20
GG, what's your official statement on wolves? Want em or not?

From: HH
10-Jan-20
Hahaha

Get the sodium Pentathol.

And......

5 gallon bucket, chair. Wash cloth, 100mph tape and a few bottles of water.

You’ll get your GG answer.

K

From: Grey Ghost
10-Jan-20
RT

Thanks for your concern about my position on wolves. It hasn’t changed, ever. I recognize that wolves have and will continue to migrate to CO, compliments of our Federal government’s ill-conceived plans to force their reintroduction into neighboring states. Fortunately, the Feds have no plans to force re-intro into Colorado As long as that remains true, I’ll lobby for keeping the fate of CO wolves in the Feds hands, instead of leaving it up to ignorant urban CO voters.

Matt

From: Huntcell
10-Jan-20
Since Wyoming Colorado border is in the Wyoming no quota zone know also as the open predator zone . We need get sharp shooters taking shifts and take out those bad breathed mange interloping curs while they still are on the Wyoming’ side.

11-Jan-20

Missouribreaks's Link

From: HH
11-Jan-20
That's about as clear as mud GG. Puff , puff , PASS., Got to remember to Pass every now and again.

They are being forced dropped. You pie in the hemp sky folks just wont believe it until your Labradoddle is being torn apart.

K

From: SixLomaz
11-Jan-20
Woof woof, I say let the pets vote. Place that video showing the wolves killing in taking away the two dogs everywhere and anywhere. In the theaters on the Billboards on YouTube

From: SixLomaz
11-Jan-20

SixLomaz's embedded Photo
SixLomaz's embedded Photo
SixLomaz's embedded Photo
SixLomaz's embedded Photo
Is this a wolf? In comparison this animal is almost as big as a north eastern deer.

From: Trial153
11-Jan-20
Go after the referendum, illegal signatures etc. Sue that it shouldn’t have been placed on the ballot. This can buy some time while to orchestrate a political counterattack that is cohesive, if that’s even a possibility when it comes to hunters.

From: HH
11-Jan-20
Eastern forced dropped cross bred Red Wolf. What a hunter calls a big coyote a Ascpa Subaruber calls an endangered Wolf.

K

From: Jaquomo
11-Jan-20
James, they got double the number of signatures needed to put it on the ballot. Secretary of State has already verified it. It will be on the ballot. Big money is pouring in from out of state to fund their campaign.

From: TrapperKayak
12-Jan-20
Six, its a coyote. It's closer to the camera than the deer so it looks bigger by comparison.

From: HH
12-Jan-20

HH's embedded Photo
Large South Eastern Male 37lbs Hope it wer'nt a Red Wolf
HH's embedded Photo
Large South Eastern Male 37lbs Hope it wer'nt a Red Wolf
I remember the first Coyotes that were dropped in CT. You saw Red ones, dark gray's. almost blue black colors. They were raised and dropped into NW CT. Early 80's or late 70's. I enjoyed thumping them with bow or the 22mag. Those first forced drop crop looked like pets with the off colors. It did not take long for them to populate with the good deer herd and small game, wild apples, grapes and the like.

I enjoy shooting the wild dog either with bow or rifle. Took several already and season has not even got good yet.

K~

From: Trial153
12-Jan-20
In all the years I been running coyotes with my hounds in NY I yet to see or kill one that didnt look like a coyotes. Canidae are pretty adaptable without our help they will populate an area if there's food.

From: HH
12-Jan-20
When the Mini wolfies dropped them i saw many phases of them. Most look like scruffy pen raised yotes but some were almost Golden and some were dark blue black up north. Almost never saw many at fur actions in 70-80’s up there. Once force dropped they spread quick.

Turkeys were early in 1 70’s. My father took one of the first birds with bow after a season opened. Birds did very well.

A old timer and good friend from WV worked for a big coal outfit. He worked not in mine but with land and aquisition. He caught the Lil Wolfies from US GVT dumping them on coal co land.

I will kill a few more before i head back to Pacific.

12-Jan-20
Well, apparently there are not any lawyers willing to give input. It’s just a thought because suing is how environmental agency’s control the situation. And I think that The Colorado wolf action fund is ripe for a lawsuit on many fronts.

Here they are a private organization toying with the livelihoods of others and the well-being of other species to boot

It’s been proven time and time again that ballot box biology can’t be educated away. But if they are in a lawsuit they are going to have a hard time pushing the feds too hard and it may just go away before the introduction actually happens

12-Jan-20
I meant “environmental groups” not agencies

12-Jan-20
Also this thread wasn’t about coyotes, wasn’t about red wolves, and also wasn’t about poisoning or illegally shooting wolves. Those are all different issues

From: HH
12-Jan-20
Red Wolves in NC are Coyotes!

God law dogs can get and injunction to stop anything unless its blatently frivolous.

Wolfies have tried or are trying force drop in more places than you bowhunters know.

Imagine what a pack would do in Iowa, kansas or nebraska in higher big game density areas. Like ip by Chadrin!! These folks will never stop with this crap. Hell they study groups in several big State Universities. Where big money commercial donors are laying out the$ for other agendas besides Wolves!

K

From: Jaquomo
12-Jan-20
Michael, I don't think you can sue for something that "might" happen, before it happens. Everything the wolfies are doing here so far is in compliance with the law. But you can be sure there will be lawsuits filed and injunctions sought if this passes. We've had other ballot initiatives that passed but were stopped by the courts. So just passing it doesn't mean forcing is inevitable.

From: HH
12-Jan-20
Agreed Jaq

DjT just y did some epa regs by exec action in last couple days.

I am confident this issue will get Federal clarity by Early 2021

K~

From: Treeline
12-Jan-20
How will the wolves impact lynx?

That would be interesting since they are still protected in Colorado.

And they want to start dropping wolves off in the middle of lynx habitat.

From: HH
12-Jan-20
Best would be to find a sub species of elk only found in CO.

That would end this goat rodeo.

Keep the wolf but may limit tags.

K

From: lawdy
12-Jan-20
Lynx and bobcats are protected here. Fastest reactions of any animal. I would think a wolf would have his hands full with a lynx. I release bobcats alone, but an old trapper friend released a lynx. Took two guys and both got cut up. Also lynx diet consists of almost all varying hare. I would think that their habitats would differ from wolves, along with prey. I saw a video of a lynx versus a cougar and the cougar never laid a paw on him, but that cougar got cut up pretty good. I have only seen five lynx in the wild. Very secretive and like thick hare cover.

From: sdkhunter
12-Jan-20
If you had the resources I think there are plenty of things you could sue on and then just keep appealing if you lost - when that avenue plays out then sue them on something else.

- attack anything relating to paperwork, signatures, methods of gathering, validity, out of state interests - then have some outfitters sue for potential loss of income etc - then have some landowners sue for loss of income, conflicts, etc - then find experts that will contradict anything within their numbers/plans - stuff like the actual genetic wolf doesn’t really exist today so it would be like introducing an invasive species, etc - look for any possible impact on other threatened species the wolves could have an impact, etc

You could find stuff all day long to bring against them, it’s just going to take deep pockets along with time and effort from someone willing to carry the torch for years and at countless stages of appeals, etc.

From: Treeline
13-Jan-20
Endangered - New Mexico Jumping Mouse and Threatened - Preble’s Meadow jumping mouse.

Wolves eat mice.

Maybe?

From: Glunt@work
13-Jan-20
We know the big wolves released last time have made the trip hundreds of miles to Colorado several times. If you establish them in Colorado and they range the same distance south, they will be overlapping the Mexican wolf which is smaller. Likely results would be either interbreeding with, or eliminating the Mexican wolves. Either is undesirable for the effort to reestablish the Mexican wolf.

The historic wolf that the Mexican wolf overlapped with to the north was similar in size and likely indistinguishable in the ares they overlapped.

14-Jan-20
I personally think a lawsuit based on the endangered species act and the threatened Mexican wolf is a very very solid plan of action. Something the stop the wolf should consider

From: KSflatlander
14-Jan-20
Based on my experience with the ESA and USFWS, I think the Mexican wolf impact lawsuit is a dead end road. The Mexican and Rocky Mountains subspecies ranges historically overlapped naturally. Should the reintroduction in Colorado again overlap with the Mexican wolf range then biologically this would be considered a success. Remember that the Mexican wolf is listed because it is geography isolated and poor genetic variation is part of the problem. Overlapping ranges helps with the genetics. That’s my 2 cents.

From: Glunt@work
14-Jan-20
I agree that the mexican wolf being isolated doesn't reflect their environment as it was in 1800. Having the largest subspecies of North American wolf overlap with them doesn't either. You may have more wolves and healthier wolves, but they won't be mexican wolves anymore. The wolves that mexican wolves overlapped with are gone.

Mexican wolves are german shepard sized or around 2/3 the size of the subspecies they used for introduction in WY, MT, ID.

From: TrapperKayak
14-Jan-20

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
These eastern dogs are showing some wolf dna according to researchers. They are larger than western coyotes and tend to pack up more, hunting in packs and taking out deer instead of smaller game hunted by solo dogs. I found 4 dead ones within a square mile (way less than, actually) . This mutt shadowed me for 45 minutes until I finally left it to its kill. That was last winter. Opening day of rifle deer this hear I shot it. It was the alpha female, approx. 45-50#, and its tail was not bushy like a coyote but wit short fuzzy curly hair. Thats how I know its the same one.

From: TrapperKayak
14-Jan-20

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
These eastern dogs are showing some wolf dna according to researchers. They are larger than western coyotes and tend to pack up more, hunting in packs and taking out deer instead of smaller game hunted by solo dogs. I found 4 dead ones within a square mile (way less than, actually) . This mutt shadowed me for 45 minutes until I finally left it to its kill. That was last winter. Opening day of rifle deer this hear I shot it. It was the alpha female, approx. 45-50#, and its tail was not bushy like a coyote but wit short fuzzy curly hair. Thats how I know its the same one.

From: TrapperKayak
14-Jan-20

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
No more deer killing for this ole girl.

From: TrapperKayak
14-Jan-20

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
Sorry about the double post. Here's a better pic anyway. If CO brings in new wolves, they most likely will interbreed with the Mexican ones if their ranges overlap. By then they will be well established and very tough to control without hunting.

From: Glunt@work
15-Jan-20
There are less than 200 wild mexican wolves. The northern edge of their range is 110 miles south of the CO border.

From: HH
15-Jan-20
Flat

So, now you do except that the Rocky Mountain Timber Wolf was a sub species. Wow your getting a hella education here.

So I would make this case after its voted in by the Hemper's on the Front Range and make the case.

"Gray wolves were never in CO Rockies, That sub species is gone and a Wolf is not a just Wolf ".

I think in federal appeals court 10th this case can be made and in this court a victory can be had. It will have to, of course run thru the states Superior courts but a stay could be granted until final adjudication in to the Supreme in maybe 2022-23.

K~

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
HH- you either are being obtuse or simply don’t understand species taxonomy. I suspect it’s the latter.

I have never once said there are not subspecies of wolves. My argument was that there is only 2 species of wolves in North America. The Gray Wolf (Canis lupus) and Red Wolf (Canis rufus). Mexican, Rocky Mountain, eastern, plains, Canadian wolves are all subspecies of Gray Wolf (Canis lupus). And within those subspecies there is variation. So much so that you would not be able to tell a small Canadian individual wolf from a large Mexican wolf. There is size variation in gray wolf populations just as there are in humans. Is everyone in your family the same size? Same with wolves to a point. So this subspecies argument to me is just smoke and mirrors in regards to reintroduction into CO.

Many biologists think the subspecies protection is splitting hairs. However, when a species (not subspecies) population gets so low then isolated subspecies do become important due to genetic variation that is essential to all populations.

So the objective of the Endangered Species Act is to save the species. And in the case with Gray Wolves it was best to protect the isolated populations (subspecies) separate for management purposes and to preserve genetic variation.

Yes HH I did learn one thing from you and that was an article you posted about a large sheep kill. However, I have not learned one substantive fact regarding wolf subspecies. But I did learn very quickly that even when you don’t know what you are talking about you still keep talking and you never let facts or science get in your way. Lastly, 95% of the time you don’t back any of your statements up with proof, facts, or sources. I’m not sure if you understand the difference between opinion and fact.

Science...because it’s better than making #%^ up.

15-Jan-20
I’m just saying I think this organization is right for a lawsuit and there’s money to be made that could be put forward to make other changes that favor sportsman over environmentalists. Environmental groups are funded by these lawsuits and it’s time we do the same

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
I’m not aware of any group bringing a lawsuit, let alone winning, that claims reintroduction of one protected species will harm another protected species.

From: HH
15-Jan-20
Simple fact, the wolfers are going to wolves in whether anyone wants it CO or not. I will argue that those wolves are long extinct, (1930's last CO wolf was killed) that wolf gone. Well, hell yes they are genetically linked. So, are all humans. That fact does not even come close to making a case that dropping a genetically superior (with human help), larger dog, who hunts in Large packs has any place in CO or any other place in CONUS.

Im not litigating the case just making common sense argument that anyone can understand. No one is going stay the course with species diversification, genetic variation, which by the way is a natural occurrence. Extinction is a natural occurrence.

The need to present the case to the folks directly from folks who'll be impacted must clear, concise and at a level easy to grasp. Getting deep into weeds will not help keep large far north Gray Wolves out of the CO Rockies.

There was sound reason wolves were eliminated by a dominate species in the lower 48. We have done worse as a nation to the dominate native species of the lower 48.

It's just a dog.

K~

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
“Simple fact, the wolfers are going to wolves in whether anyone wants it CO or not. “

Do you even see the contradiction in your statement. It’s s public vote and majority wins. Did you expect a vote and minority win? If they vote it in then apparently there are more “Wolfers” than not in CO lol.

“I will argue that those wolves are long extinct, (1930's last CO wolf was killed) that wolf gone.“. And you will be wrong. If you were to make that statement in a public meeting you would be laughed out of the room. The subspecies was extirpated from CO but the gray wolf (Canis lupus) in any form is not extinct. Please stop saying the gray wolf is extinct. You lose all credibility when you do.

From: Jaquomo
15-Jan-20
Powerful editorial in today's Denver Post from former head of Colorado Wildlife Commmission and the founder of TRCP (also a big game hunter) refuting all the "lies" made by Stop The Wolf. Wish I could post the link but I keep getting the dreaded 500 error.

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20

KSflatlander's Link
Is this the one Jaq?

From: cnelk
15-Jan-20
Just this week a local middle school had the wolf sanctuary bring in a wolf pup to show kids. Lots of Ooooohhhhsand Ahhhhhhs from the staff and students.

Typical representation from teachers using public schools to teach their own agendas

From: Treeline
15-Jan-20
Read that article.

Sounds like wolves are just larger coyotes and actually improve big game numbers....

Elk and deer numbers have increased where there are wolves and moose are only 1% of their diet. Hell, that will get half the hunters in this state to vote to haul them in!

Guess the elk and moose population crashes in the Greater Yellowstone Area when they dumped the wolves was due to Climate Change, ozone holes, or maybe it was Trump’s fault.

From: Jaquomo
15-Jan-20
KS, yes, thanks. I kept getting the 500 error

From: HH
15-Jan-20
Im thinkin Flat is a GVT Employee?

I will will relay what fdp or EOCP said.

“Life itself is terminal”

Half the the info i have provided is editorial but other is fact.

Most is expierence knowing and seeing how the Dog droppers did this with Yotes.

I know yhis ilk well Flat. Rabid bark biters who know more than any one.

Since when does a plurality of votes take the top seat. Didnt in 2016. Please dont get on yer soapbox on Roger Rules and State legislation body actions

K

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
No I don’t work for any government. I’m a wildlife biologist working in the private sector and most of my work is with endangered species. Why would it matter if I did work for the feds?

Is this CO wolf reintroduction vote going to be decided by an electoral college? What the heck does a 2016 presidential vote have anything to do with a state referendum?

If you are using facts as you say then please back up your repeated claim that the feds are secretly dropping wolves, coyotes, or any other species anywhere in the U.S. Pleas show us some evidence of this claim from a credible source. Otherwise the claim is BS made up crap.

From: WapitiBob
15-Jan-20
A quick look at the first several paragraphs of that article show it to be pretty accurate. Elk herds in the western wolf states have increased statewide in spite of wolves; easily confirmed by those who care to do so. The comment referenced that "WY herds are 10% of what they were" was from a former CPW employee and is a total fabrication. The WY herds around the Park are down about 10% on avg and again, easily confirmed by anyone who cares to look. Yes, there are isolated herds in ID, MT, and WY where wolves have taken a significant toll but wolves haven't eaten all the Elk nor will they.

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
So your proof that the feds are secretly dropping wolves in the U.S. is an article about dog dementia? I can’t read it because you POSTED a blurry photo of an article in s magazine called Family...I think.

Just as I suspected it’s all made up BS. Black helicopters dropping endangered species with parachutes at night of course. Just admit that you just make stuff up to defend your arguments.

You just can rationalize the irrational.

And what the heck is an EP consulting firm?

From: HH
15-Jan-20
Who says Fed is doing the dropping. Could be you for all we know.

That would be Web MD monthly but you can pick up your fav mag, lets say “The NYer” youll see similar

The deer baiting KS biologist, right.

K

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
More BS lol. You got nothing and your false claims are detrimental to bowhunting and bowhunters. And definitely take any credibility away from arguments not to reintroduce wolves in Colorado.

15-Jan-20
Kansas flatlander, we had two seasons for grizzly bear in 2017 that got shut down because of lawsuits from environmental groups...This could be shut down under the similar pretense

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
I’m not saying a lawsuit can be filed and possibly stop the reintroduction. ESA lawsuits happen all the time. I’m just saying that the argument that the CO reintroduction shouldn’t happen due to impacts on the Mexican subspecies likely does not have biological merit IMO for reasons previously stated.

From: HH
15-Jan-20
You cam read that pic fine. Your just a lefty wolf loving idealog.

I have a biologist and a bio senior scientist in my immediate family.

Had to listen to them cry when Trump won.

Im guessing your a Bio Consultant small cap firm and butt hurt that yer not making what you did under BO EPA exec orders.

The same Kind that love GVT $ and regulation.

The wolf is a politcal javelin to pierce the way of weatern life.

They are so far ahead of outdoorsmen, ranhers it aint funny.

Same leaf lickers who are attacking beefers out west. Cows are using up all the water. Hillarious.

Bio bark monkees make me smile.

K .

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
For God's sake, Shawn, try proof reading your illiterate posts before hitting the "submit" button. They are embarrassing, and a bad reflection on the hunting community in general. I honestly can't believe Pat allows you to keep polluting the BS.

Matt

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
FYI I have no federal contracts and am currently hiring. Anything else you want to falsely claim?

Again do you have any proof of your claim that anyone is secretly “dropping” any endangered canine anywhere in the U.S.? Or is it just your fabricated conspiracy theory?

From: HH
15-Jan-20
Cant see it on ifone

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20

Consult your eye doctor, dude. Or use a cheap pair of readers. Your posts are painful to decipher.

Matt

From: HH
15-Jan-20
Any proof there not.

With much looking youll find federal grants for wolf study, etc.

how do you think wolf puppies are getting into CO schools? Who would use kids to get a political foot up their agenda? I know who.

Private wolfers raise them, state U’s raise them. Study groups raise them. Do your own work smart guy.

You really think all those dogs go to zoos or die in cages?

Smell the Java. Thise wolves have and will continue to be dropped.

Sometimes the obvious needs no footnote.

GG When Bowsite limits bio diversity you’ll end up with same monkees talking and throwing chit. Now, they fling it guys they dislike. Once we are gone they’ll just fling it themselves. They cant help playing with stinky stuff.

K K

From: HH
15-Jan-20
You do speaky American? ??

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
More BS with no proof. You said it...the burden of proof is on you. Good grief.

By the way I speak English lol.

From: RT
15-Jan-20
It was an article with some numbers sprinkled in but no sources. No sources on how or where the numbers increased. Equally biased for wolves, a useless article.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
"GG When Bowsite limits bio diversity you’ll end up with same monkees talking and throwing chit. Now, they fling it guys they dislike. Once we are gone they’ll just fling it themselves. They can help playing with stinky stuff."

Do you even understand the illiterate crap you post? Seek help, dude. Not for me, or anyone else. Do it for yourself. Until then, you'll remain the guy that most Bowsiters will just roll their eyes at.

Matt

15-Jan-20
Colorado Wolf Agenda,,,,,,, after awhile who cares,,,,,,,unless your willing to take care of business, which has been done in my areas of the UP, that scourge will haunt and decimate your areas,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I can not for the life of me,, understand Montana who can legally hunt and trap these predators, whine about their problems,,,, give us in the Great Lakes region the same opportunities, and we will handle business

Colorado is doomed if they reintroduce these predators......................

From: HH
15-Jan-20
It should be no surprise that both of you are Bowlibs of fame from CF.

Wolf Drop is nothing but a political tool of the left to execute a long term agenda.

I am sure some CO tesident will file suit after this vote in Nov.

It will stop any action plan until it works its way thru the CO Swamp and possibly to the 10th circuit, where it will have an uphill battle to be deemed legal.

Not my fight. I left CO in 88. But I will be in 201 soon if it all works out this year or next. Meat packer and caller. Hope i see those wolves in there.

K

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
Thanks for spending your vacation dollars in Colorado, Shawn, we native residents appreciate it.

Matt

15-Jan-20
You do not need to file a lawsuit,,, you need to have your weapons loaded,,,,, it has come to that.... or you could join the BHA and a pint night and embellish on the issues

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
Ground hunter- are you suggesting that others should poach wildlife on a public forum?

From: HH
15-Jan-20
Sure Thats the unwritten concensus.

Not me Teter , not my tag. Im there to call and hump horns meat out.

I take my ruck and gear. Not my rodeo.

You can hide yer Wolf lovin ways but your agenda is well known and i think it sides with the front range politics of the wolf.

K

K

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
A son only a mother can love...May God bless you Shawn Magyar.

Matt.

15-Jan-20
Wolves are just handled.. it is obvious the do not kill your livestock. Things change when you have skin in the game and a ludicrious system of control.... Ks when you have wolves in your yard you might have some clue...., Or go to pint night

From: BigSkyHntr
16-Jan-20
GG, I’m one of those bowsiters that just rolls his eyes ... think he might not be getting enough vitamin D there in Hawaii? As for a lawsuit, not sure that’s the answer but I agree the reintro needs to be fought off one way or another..

From: Ermine
16-Jan-20
How come there is no talk of bringing grizzlies back? All this live for wolves but how come the clowns don’t want Griz back in Colorado? I’d like to see them back.

From: Treeline
16-Jan-20
Would rather have grizz than wolves as well Ermine.

If for no other reason than to spook some of the hiker crowds and keep them closer to their Subarus...

But given the choice, I would rather have neither of them here. I will continue to vote that way as long as I can.

Will be interesting to see what the predation study that the CPw is conducting turns out... Bet a lot of folks are going to be shocked how many big game animals are killed a year by the apex predators we already have.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
"Will be interesting to see what the predation study that the CPw is conducting turns out..."

A year or so ago, I recall an Idaho Dept of Fish and Game study in which they collared over 170 elk calves, then tracked their mortality over the course of 2 winters. They found that mountain lions were responsible for 3-4 times more calf kills than wolves.

Funny how there isn't as much disdain for mountain lions as there is for wolves.

Matt

From: Bowbender
16-Jan-20
"Funny how there isn't as much disdain for mountain lions as there is for wolves."

I dunno, Matt......maybe because there isn't/wasn't a forced re-intro and there is actually a season to control the population.

Not much to add, other than the wolves ARE coming. Either by natural migration or forced re-intro. The former should prevail with a plan to manage their numbers once they reach a certain level. Unfortunately ballot-box biology along with the $$ that drives it will win, I'm afraid.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
Tom,

I'm not so sure the re-intro ballot initiative will pass. Our local CBS affiliate news station conducted a poll recently. The last results I saw had over 23K votes. 80% of the votes said NO to the reintroduction plan. Obviously that's not a huge sample size, but it is encouraging.

Matt

From: RT
16-Jan-20
Cat quotas need to be tripled for a few years. There are plenty of them.

From: TrapperKayak
16-Jan-20
This sure is some entertaining reading.

I am not supporting or slamming anything here with the following, I am merely presenting my observations: Mt lions run from dogs, and wolves run to them. Cats don't generally hunt in packs unless its a mother teaching her young to hunt, then the kittens rarely participate anyway, they just observe... And cats don't kill wantonly and leave behind basically uneaten carcasses. Maybe that's why. Cats are secretive, wolves seem empowered in numbers and boldly take out sheep herds, young cattle, and pets from yards. Griz also are way more likely to remain obscure. I have no problem personally with either cats or griz in the wild, and for that mater, wolves either if they are hunted actively, retain the fear of man and his beasts, and are allowed to be shot like coyotes. Ie, managed whether they are listed or de-listed. So for the record, I am not a 'wolfie', not a promoter of forced intro., and am a supporter of hunting them (and cats and griz too), when and wherever they can be without them going 'extinct' again... hahaha. ;^) Problem ones, those acclimated to killing domestic animals should be taken out immediately. TK

From: Treeline
16-Jan-20
There shouldn’t be a quota at all for lions. Nor a season...

Even with unlimited lion hunting and bounties, there will still be plenty...

From: KSflatlander
16-Jan-20
Treeline- How do you know there are plenty of cats?

From: RT
16-Jan-20
How do you know there isn't?

From: KSflatlander
16-Jan-20

KSflatlander's Link
Answering a question with question but I guess I'll play. Because the CDOW has seasons and quotas for a reason. Goals set by biologists with data on populations and harvest records. See link.

From: HH
16-Jan-20

HH's Link
Its entertaining because you have guys here that pretend they're hunters/outdoorsman. Are they?

I bet 90% of you don't know how deep this wolf thing is in the USA. Would you be surprised if the World Wolfers are dumping big cash into "wolves at our Door" program?? That's code for getting wolves in lower 48 in all their historic ranges.

You got self proclaimed Bio Weenie here that prolly is part of it. One only needs to go to one of a handful of sites to figure the deal out and follow the liberal left finger prints into the politics of the wolf in the west.

Here are the big undisclosed donor list to the International Wolfies here in . . . . . . . Yes Minn.

-------------- $10,000 plus Estate of Kathleen F. Corbett Nancy Gibson and Ron Sternal Google Inc. The Dorothy D. and Joseph A. Moller Foundation Estate of John H. Tyler John Virr

Oh and you guessed it, Its a 501 c3 with generous GVT $ flowing in. Check this. the employees all qualify for 403b investment criteria and pensions.

If you think some petition is going stop the wolf getting into CO yer kidding yerself. Just dig thru this statement from the Wolfers in Minn and things will become clear.

I really lover the amount of cash they have poured to schools all over USA with there interactive online programs. So, you the public your tax dollars paying for this BS and you don't even know it. Yes, they have free little hour pet the dead wolf stuff but the other stuff is Your school district paying $ for it.

So when you hear guys like Flat- Hat flipping out Genetic diversity, and Bio jangle you know he's prolly doing Webinar's with the wolfies and either a Booster and or Donor.

They don't hide what they want and they want it everywhere a wolf once walked even 10,000yrs ago (everywhere) in North America.

Vision The International Wolf Center envisions a world in which populations of wolves thrive well distributed in many parts of their native range. A global system of designated wildlands supports abundant habitat and prey for wolves and other large carnivores. The Center provides useful scientific information and learning opportunities to diverse individuals and groups and supports well-informed dialogue about management of wolf­human conflict. As a result, humans adopt an attitude of respect toward wolves. As informed participants, humans create policy and act in support of ecological sustainability, which includes the survival of wolf populations. In day-to-day life, humans accept coexistence with wolves" IWC

Be sure to read the Financial statement things become more clear. You CO residents better get on the stick or your "The Wolves at our Door" program be looking up yer ol address mighty pronto.

K

From: RT
16-Jan-20
"Lion DAU plans extrapolate POSSIBLE population levels"

There you go, thanks.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Here's the 2017 results of the elk calf mortality study I mentioned earlier. It's kinda sad that starvation accounted for as many dead calves as any predator. 2017 was an abnormally rough winter, however.

Matt

From: HH
16-Jan-20
Fake news

Read my link. Wolves have eaten herds to the bone in BC and NW MT.

Yer a wolfer theres no doubt.

beware CO resident hunters you got Matt Teter Wolf Booster in yer midsts. K

From: KSflatlander
16-Jan-20
Do you honestly think that all wild game population data are gathered by counting individuals? If yes, then please go individually count all elk in Colorado and make sure you don't double count and get them all. All wild game populations are extrapolated...it's called statistics and science. Game managers have been doing it that way for decades.

RT/Treeline- Now, answer my question. How do you know there are plenty of cats...so much so that they don't need quotas or seasons?

HH- you are so predictable. When someone calls you out and you can't back it up you just deflect, spin, and start to name calling...every dang time. You're just mob mentality and a follower. I do not have stake in this fight regarding wolves being reintroduced in CO. I personally think doing biology at the ballot box is a bad idea. It should be left up to biologists and other stakeholders who will be financially affected. However, this is a public DISCUSSION forum. If fellow bowhunters are going to throw unfounded statements out there then they should not be surprised when others call them out. Facts matter.

WapitiBob had a good point . There are wolves currently in states where we hunt...that I hunt. The elk/moose/deer populations are still good. The data is all out there for those who take the time to look (as he stated). But I realize that it doesn't fit everyone's narrative.

To the OP. Yes, I think there are ways to file lawsuits to at least temporarily stop the reintroduction. But impacts to the mexican subspecies has no merit IMO based on reasons previously stated. It likely would be better to focus on the perceived impacts to private landowners and ranchers. However, that tactic has been tried many times before and ultimately it didn't work. If they reintroduce wolves in CO and it is still on the ESA (fed control) then I would suggest getting a lawyer to dive deep into the NEPA/Environmental Impact Statement. A smart lawyer can likely find something in there to file a lawsuit. It worked for the lesser prairie-chicken. But the Gray Wolf is proposed to be delisted. Thereafter, it is a state issue. Maybe Kansas cattleman's association can sue CO and claim damages because they will migrate and kill KS livestock? Good luck with the lawsuit but I think its a loosing battle.

From: RT
16-Jan-20
Meh maybe HH is correct.

From: KSflatlander
16-Jan-20
Lol go ahead and hitch yourself to that genius wagon. Like I said mob mentality and a follower.

Are you going to answer the question? How do you know there are plenty of cats...so much so that they don't need quotas or seasons? I gave you my answer and backed it up.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
I've hunted and fished in Colorado for over 50 years. I've ran across cat tracks numerous times, but I've never actually seen one in the wild. Incredibly elusive animals. That's probably why they are hunted with dogs, otherwise I doubt many would ever be killed.

I'm sure HH will be along shortly to tell us how he's chased cats down and killed them with his bare hands. LOL.

Matt

From: Glunt@work
16-Jan-20
Cat populations are a big guess. We can measure changes and trends but no one knows the real number.

The CPWs guess is 3000 on the low end and more than double that on the high end. They are upfront about not really being able to pin it down very close.

From: RT
16-Jan-20
Winter counts are possible with ungulates, not so much with cats. I am not going to pretend to know the numbers and neither should anyone else.

Bottom line is that the deer numbers are way down in areas.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
"Winter counts are possible with ungulates, not so much with cats."

I've been involved in two of those "official" counts for Bighorn sheep in Colorado. Both occurred in mid-summer. I had scouted the unit hard in preparation for my hunt, and I felt I knew where the majority of the sheep were. On both counts, we had crappy overcast weather, which made for horrible glassing conditions. We counted only a fraction of the sheep that I knew were in the area. When I asked the CPW officer we accompanied how they could possibly extrapolate any accurate information from our count, she said "good question". I've never put much stock in those population guesstimates ever since.

Matt

From: KSflatlander
16-Jan-20

KSflatlander's Link
I wouldn't characterize mountain lion population estimates a simple "guess." But yes, they are difficult to count. If anyone wants to read the link is a scientific paper on estimating mountain lion populations.

FYI- Most wildlife and big game populations use some kind of sample size method for estimating populations. 99% of all populations are estimates with 95% confidence intervals (statistically significant). Basically it is a very good educated guess that has a 95% probability of being correct.

From: Treeline
16-Jan-20
Know of some guys that are paid to kill lions for ranchers in west Texas. They kill hundreds a year and have been for a lot of years.

Back when predator control was considered politically correct and the government and livestock interests paid guys to kill lions, bears, coyotes, wolves, etc year round with poison, dogs, guns, etc - they never ran out of predators.

We did have lots of deer though...

From: Brun
16-Jan-20
This thread has gotten pretty far off the original topic. I was speaking with an attorney the other day that had no formed opinion on this subject. She read through the wording of the proposal and when I told her that we now have a confirmed pack of wolves in Colorado she was most interested in the word reintroduction. She thought there was some legal merit to the idea that it is impossible to "reintroduce" something that currently exists. This has nothing to do with the subspecies argument, her opinion is based entirely on the legal wording. Seems like this is an angle that should be looked into as an injunction possibility. If this vote could get delayed on this basis it would probably be done. The pack in the northwest will certainly be successful and likely spawn more packs in the surrounding country. This isn't what we want, but would be much better than forced "reintroduction" on the entire western slope. I'm no lawyer, but would like to here opinions or speculation on whether this angle has been explored.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
That's an interesting angle, Jim.

Does anyone have a link to the actual wording in the initiative? Sorry, I can't search for it at the moment.

Matt

From: Treeline
16-Jan-20
Now that could be a great angle, Brun!

From: HH
16-Jan-20
More like an Forced Drop of a wolf that was never a breeding population in the west.

The largest Wolf in lower 48 was a Prarie Wolf. Many many accounts of their size in journals , notes and writings before 1840s.

Not a pack animal per say. Roosevelt recalls seeing some of the last of them in 1870’s. Buff calf killers and scavangers.

Sub species prolly close to an Artic. Im sure the Minn Wolf Puppy Mill has mixed Artic with giant Grays as they have both and are prolly chomping to drop them in their original home ranges of Wy, ND, SD, NE.

There is hun bub about that Wolf.Org wants to drop them in the Black Hills just as elk numbers are getting higher and they are killing them off for habitat management.

Had a discussion with two black hill folks , Hot Springs and Rapid. Both confirmed the Bark biters are on the move to put these Super Dogs back in.

My assuption upon this discussions is they will pen them on the Res in NW Hills and wait. But, you know accidents happen and dogs get free!

Sourh Dakota, you best get your duks in a row as you are next.

No stopping this now im afraid.

Go to Wolf.org

Look at donors, grants, research, reeducation and financials. Once you see how this org is layed out, funded and tax shielded it is easy to see the 5 W’s of outfits like Move On .org

This Orgs profile is nearly identical most far left liberal politcal outfits. Well funded, well represented legally and tied to education grants, USFWS study grants and on and on.

You hunters are funding this. Call your House Rep and demand accountability and transparency!

Font take my word for it do your own study. I hunt nationwide grom Hawaii to ME and do about 200 dayS i. The bush. One thing about working for Uncle Sam for 25yrs i know a chit ton of guys just like myself in about every state. We all hunt, we know GVT BS and agree this Wolf Crap is big biz and they have $ and political backing.

K

K

From: HH
16-Jan-20
Oh yes

A major major funder to the Wolfies. Nat Geo prolly number one!

They have great funding ideas' see link.

https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-2973458/national-geographic-wolf-plush-by-lelly.jsp

From: HH
17-Jan-20

HH's Link
Here's Nat Geo Store which is a major funder to put a wolf in your kids school and your back yards. They pump huge $ in the Wolf and You.

K

From: Bowbender
17-Jan-20

Bowbender's embedded Photo
Up next for re-intro. Coming soon to a national forest near you!!
Bowbender's embedded Photo
Up next for re-intro. Coming soon to a national forest near you!!

Bowbender's Link
I guess they're advocating the re-intro of Velociraptors as well. I KNEW I shoulda bought that raptor target from Rinehart!!

From: HH
17-Jan-20

HH's Link
Here's a website that radical! One of a hundred or more.

More like Rules for Radicals Alinksi's book than a Environment Bark Biter save the pooch site. Check these nut jobs out.

These are the folks running around Minn trying to stop the Wolf hunt up there.

K

From: HH
17-Jan-20

HH's Link
Yeah, its totally normal to sell $3.00 toys for up to $100.00.

They be dropping Teradactyls in Red districts of Penn

Let em go in those old coal mines. Maybe they eat wolves?

Here are some real Radical folks, wolves before humans. You'll notice about 80% of these folks are women. A nasty crew.

K

From: HH
17-Jan-20

HH's Link
Some real Trump and human haters. NRDC they use there resources to help the radical wolfies all over world. Serious power and connected to Big Money Libs on Left coast and your other left coast.

K

From: TrapperKayak
17-Jan-20
The biggest threat I see to our hunting rights, and to the proper management of all our wildlife resources now days is the anthropomorphism of all animals, esp. by Hollywood in movies. Its brainwashing the reality of true nature right out of society's youth, and ultimately all of society that is gullible enough to be 'taken' by it...

From: RT
17-Jan-20
Are you a real Magyar? A Hun?

From: HH
17-Jan-20
Yes, i’m of the Kirally line. I carry both native american and Atilla’s blood.

The Riman Catholic church in 999 tried to tame us by moving a southern german prince into our blood. Which happened.

My line retained the Kirally. My gg grandfather was married to a Kirally.

My pateenal grandmother was 1/4 eastern native American.

K

From: RT
17-Jan-20
Good Lord and God Bless.

From: HH
17-Jan-20
Trap Yer catching on. The theme with all the Wolfies.

Get Trump out. They whats gonna happen after Nov win.

K

From: TrapperKayak
17-Jan-20
I checked out some links and I saw this one segment as being pretty accurate. Nut jobs? Ok, whatever... Check it out, and then tell us your opinion....

http://www.howlingforwolves.org/lordsofnature

From: TrapperKayak
17-Jan-20
I've been caught on my whole life. I've got a real good handle on where the left is coming from and where they are going....Out.

17-Jan-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
The wolves didn't get these elk. What a shame.

From: HH
17-Jan-20
Feeding the poor sounds Christian like thing to do.

What's better? Wolves feeding on elk while their still alive or a quick harvest.

Sure the wolves got plenty of gut piles! Heard the y killed a bunch off those piles everytime.

Win win

K<

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