My New Mule...First impressions
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-20
Scar Finga 12-Jan-20
t-roy 12-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-20
cnelk 12-Jan-20
Z Barebow 12-Jan-20
Jaquomo 12-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 12-Jan-20
BULELK1 13-Jan-20
BowFly 13-Jan-20
WV Mountaineer 13-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 13-Jan-20
APauls 13-Jan-20
lawdy 13-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 13-Jan-20
Pat Lefemine 13-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 13-Jan-20
Joey Ward 13-Jan-20
Jaquomo 13-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 13-Jan-20
WV Mountaineer 13-Jan-20
mn_archer 14-Jan-20
EmbryOklahoma 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
APauls 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
smarba 14-Jan-20
t-roy 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
smarba 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
smarba 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
RK 14-Jan-20
relliK reeD 14-Jan-20
Iowabowhunter 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 14-Jan-20
smarba 14-Jan-20
smarba 14-Jan-20
smarba 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
Pig Doc 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
cnelk 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
Jaquomo 14-Jan-20
Pig Doc 14-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 14-Jan-20
Rut Nut 14-Jan-20
Rut Nut 14-Jan-20
smarba 15-Jan-20
smarba 15-Jan-20
fubar racin 15-Jan-20
tobywon 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
smarba 15-Jan-20
Rut Nut 15-Jan-20
Jaquomo 15-Jan-20
Scoot 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
relliK reeD 15-Jan-20
Pig Doc 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 15-Jan-20
Rut Nut 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
cnelk 15-Jan-20
smarba 15-Jan-20
Pig Doc 15-Jan-20
NoWiser 15-Jan-20
Pig Doc 15-Jan-20
Pig Doc 15-Jan-20
smarba 15-Jan-20
NoWiser 15-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 15-Jan-20
fubar racin 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
smarba 15-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 15-Jan-20
NoWiser 15-Jan-20
KSflatlander 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
fubar racin 15-Jan-20
APauls 15-Jan-20
Pig Doc 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
Ucsdryder 15-Jan-20
pirogue 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
Jaquomo 15-Jan-20
smarba 15-Jan-20
Dale Hajas 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
Jaquomo 15-Jan-20
Pig Doc 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 15-Jan-20
Pig Doc 15-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
APauls 16-Jan-20
Jaquomo 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Jaquomo 16-Jan-20
eBike John 16-Jan-20
Jaquomo 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Pig Doc 16-Jan-20
smarba 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
smarba 16-Jan-20
cnelk 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Will 16-Jan-20
APauls 16-Jan-20
Jaquomo 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 16-Jan-20
Habitat 17-Jan-20
Jaquomo 17-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 17-Jan-20
Jaquomo 17-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 20-Jan-20
KSflatlander 20-Jan-20
cnelk 20-Jan-20
Timex 20-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 20-Jan-20
Jaquomo 20-Jan-20
APauls 20-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 20-Jan-20
APauls 20-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 20-Jan-20
eBike John 21-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 26-Jan-20
APauls 26-Jan-20
Ridgefire 27-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 27-Jan-20
From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-20
No, not the 4-legged hay-burner type. I already have 3 of those. I'm talking my new Bakcou Mule e-bike. My order arrived UPS in 2 days last Friday, free of charge. Thank you, ebike John!!

The bike was packed for shipping nicely. Assembly took about an hour. Assembly instructions were adequate, but could improve. The owners/ operation manual was omitted from my delivery, but John is taking care of that.

My first ride, today, was only 5 miles, during half-time of the Chiefs vs Texans game, but it included a 3/4 mile hill that usually kicks my ass on a conventional MTB. I peddled right up it without breaking a sweat, on level 2 assist. Otherwise, I left it on level one, and maintained a nice high heart rate the whole time.

This thing seems solid, stable on our loose gravel county roads, and is going to extend my range significantly. It will take more rides to learn its full potential, but I'm not regretting the purchase at all, right now.

I can't wait to scout and hunt with this thing!

Matt

From: Scar Finga
12-Jan-20
Happy to hear you are pleased with it! keep us posted on your experiences!

My wife has an ebike I bought for her and its pretty cool... More of a smooth terrain bike, it doesn't have a suspension... but it hauls AZZZZ!

From: t-roy
12-Jan-20
Very nice! Some other guys have commented on wishing they had better pedal clearance. Have you had it long enough to get a feel for that aspect of it yet?

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-20
t-roy,

I rode on maintained county dirt roads, but they have a lot of loose gravel, which makes conventional MTB riding an adventure. The Mule's fat tires made them a breeze.

When I get in better shape, I'm going to tackle the 4x4 2-track that goes to the top of my property. It's not possible for me on a conventional MTB, but I think it's definitely doable on this Mule. I'll report back when that day comes.

Matt

From: cnelk
12-Jan-20
Get on YouTube and do some searching. There are some pretty cool hacks you can do with the controls.

I rode mine today too. Went to the hardware store and stopped by a buddies house. Another 7 miles

From: Z Barebow
12-Jan-20
Watching with great interest Matt. I told my wife that I am buying one. I tell the full story that I have been thinking about it since I got back from elk hunting. She did not flinch and accused me of "mansplaining". (Whatever that is!)

From: Jaquomo
12-Jan-20
My first mule was named Apache. When I tried her out I suspect she had been "buted" because she was a gentle sweetheart at that ranch. First test ride at home was the frickin' Stock Show saddle bronc competition. She didn't get me off but I never could trust her after that.

My Rambo is much better behaved and costs waaay less to feed....

Glad you're enjoying your Mule. Next you'll be cooking with Sous Vide!

From: Grey Ghost
12-Jan-20
Don’t get presumptuous, Lou.

:-)

Matt

From: BULELK1
13-Jan-20
Welcome to the eBike club!!

You'll get to where you jump on it and pedal for errands instead of jumping in the vehicle.

Always Wear a Helmet!

Robb

From: BowFly
13-Jan-20
A few years ago I might've rolled my eyes at the ebikes and just wrote them off as " different strokes for different folks." They're looking pretty tempting these days with arthritis issues. Liking the Mule ST. Think it'd work out well for shorter legs like mine.

13-Jan-20
I’m glad you like it. Sounds like a great improvement.

I’ve never rode a fat bike. Do they really pedal as easy as a standard tire mountain bike? I guess what I can’t get my mind around is why are the e bikes tires much wider then a standard bike if the wider tires are harder to pedal.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Jan-20
WV,

With no power assist, a fat tire bike is a bit more difficult to pedal than a regular MTB, just like a MTB is more difficult than a skinning tire road bike. The fatter the tires, the more stable they are on loose or uneven terrain. You also ride fat tires with much less air pressure, which improves traction and absorbs bumps more.

The way the Mule works is it provides 5 levels of power assist. Level 1 is the least assist. As you pedal, the motor senses how much pressure you're putting on the pedals, then applies the power accordingly, so you can always maintain a comfortable level of pedaling effort regardless of the terrain. You can also use the motor's throttle, which provides full power, so you can ride it like a motorcycle without pedaling, but that's not recommended for long distances because it will burn up the motor.

Think of a bike that allows you to comfortably pedal with as much, or as little, effort as you desire, regardless of the terrain. That's what an e-bike does, and it's very very cool.

Matt

From: APauls
13-Jan-20
I read through an older thread the other day where Grey Ghost was giving the gears to guys with ebikes lol.

From: lawdy
13-Jan-20
I looked at a Rad for my wife. We are both in our mid-seventies and like both putting the logging roads up here with our enduros and mountain bikes. My wife has a hard time on the hills up here with her mountain bike. There are locked gates up here to stop vehicular travel, but bikes are okay, except on fed land. They allow pickups, but no bicycles. Sounds stupid, but true. I pedal in to some wild places where motorized transport is banned. I figure this would allow my wife to join me.

From: Grey Ghost
13-Jan-20
"I read through an older thread the other day where Grey Ghost was giving the gears to guys with ebikes lol."

Yes you did, and I was being a fool.

I got my education on e-bikes when I saw two 65-plus year old gentlemen pack out full quarters of a monster bull elk 4 miles, riding e-bikes, in 1/4 of the time it took me on foot.

Matt

From: Pat Lefemine
13-Jan-20
It starts with eBikes and pretty soon you’ll be hunting corn piles. ;-)

From: Grey Ghost
13-Jan-20
Not in this lifetime, Pat. I draw the line somewhere. ;-)

Matt

From: Joey Ward
13-Jan-20
Lol :-)

From: Jaquomo
13-Jan-20
Let's not rush things. Maybe ease into a sniff of Nose Jammer first.. ;-)

From: Grey Ghost
13-Jan-20
Oh, I've sniffed nose jammer, Lou, and I liked it!! It'll be in my arsenal this year.

;-)

Matt

13-Jan-20
Thanks for the detailed description Matt. They sound really cool.

From: mn_archer
14-Jan-20
"Not in this lifetime, Pat. I draw the line somewhere. ;-) Matt"

As we get older those lines seem to change. Something about older/wiser

14-Jan-20
"It starts with eBikes and pretty soon you’ll be hunting corn piles." That will lead you down a road of disdain for deer drives. :)

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20
Has anyone done a deer drive on a e-bike? Hmmmm...... ;-)

Matt

From: APauls
14-Jan-20
Hey Matt, I can always like a guy who can admit mistakes ;) I had buddies who have just looked at me sideways about the ebike and it's hilarious because all you need is for a person to test drive it once. I try and try and try and they just say this or that, but when someone finally steps on one and takes it for a spin it's hilarious because 10 minutes later they are trying to tell you about all the amazing things it could be used for and you're just smiling and nodding lol.

eBikes are not just for old people, or out of shape people. They are an amazing tool like an atv.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20
I hear you, APauls, my wife reluctantly gave me her blessings to buy the Mule, but she's still questioning whether it's worth the hefty price tag. I know that will all change once she rides it. Then, we'll be buying one for her. ;-)

Have any of you Mule owners raised your handlebars? If so, how? I'm a bit over 6'-4" tall. I have the Mule's seat adjusted to max height, which puts the handlebars lower than the seat, and causes a more hunched over riding position than I like. I want to raise the handlebars 1-2", but I'm unfamiliar with the headset on this bike. It appears to be set at the highest position already. Can I put a longer stem on?

Matt

From: smarba
14-Jan-20
Yep corn piles cheating. A little motor just fine.

From: t-roy
14-Jan-20
They sell an adapter on eBay, for the water bottle holder, that will fit the slimmer cans of NoseJammer now;-)

How bout a pic or two of your new ride?!

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
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Here you go, T-roy.

From: smarba
14-Jan-20

smarba's embedded Photo
smarba's embedded Photo
You'll have to check steerer tube diameter and handlebar diameter then the rise and length of stem you want, but a riser stem will bring the bars up to where you want them.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Thanks Smarba.

I also found this steerer extender. Any thoughts on which would be better?

Matt

From: smarba
14-Jan-20
If you can get a stem with length/angle that puts you where you want the bars IMO that's better, as it's one less connection point. The Steerer Extender is a band-aid for a steerer that's been cut too short in the first place. It will work but with it you'll have a bolted connection at the bottom of the extender to the steerer tube and another bolted connection from the stem to the extender.

With a correctly-sized stem you'll still just have the single bolted connection from the stem to the fork steerer tube.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20
Makes good sense, thanks.

Matt

From: RK
14-Jan-20
GG

Really nice looking machine! You are going to love that

From: relliK reeD
14-Jan-20
I have been paying attention to these ebikes with great interest and notice everyone that has purchased one is quite happy. Has anyone tried out the Voltbike 750 yet. I realize that it is a rear hub drive but sure looks like a lot of bike for $1800. Just asking

14-Jan-20
That thing looks sweet, and would really help out on my public land excursions.

That said my old reliable Tacoma cost barely more than that so I'll have to pass. Would be really awesome to have though.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
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I took Smarba's advice and picked up a new stem with a 40 degree angle. It raised the handle bars about 2". As you can see, now my seat and handlebars are at the same height, which made a significant difference in riding position. Now, I'm more upright, so there's less strain on my arms, wrists, neck, and back. It's much more comfortable for me.

If you're a tall rider who prefers a more natural upright riding position, I highly recommend this modification.

Matt

From: Ucsdryder
14-Jan-20
Enough people get these and are roaming around the forest service trails I’ll bet money they put an end to it. Usually how loopholes work!

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's Link
Exactly what "loophole" are you talking about? The Department of Interior made it pretty clear with respect to e-bikes in National Parks last August. See link.

Matt

From: Ucsdryder
14-Jan-20
Call it whatever you want, but they are motorized. They have a motor. I could care less as they have zero impact on the areas I hunt, but when hikers start complaining about them clogging up trails and hunters start complaining about the being in the back country, I’m betting they’ll act. And don’t tell me they don’t have a motor.

From: smarba
14-Jan-20
I agree with you Ucsdryder; however, few on the BS seem to feel the same way. I realize the new rule allows "a little" motor in otherwise non-motorized areas, but at some point when motorcycles (face it that's what they are) begin to surpass MTB users there may be backlash.

There are many proponents of eBikes on BS, which to me seems contrary to the view regarding other tools that make things physically easier (e.g. Xbows). In the short-term those who jump on eBikes may enjoy easier access to their hunting areas. In the long-term everyone will be doing it and those hotspots won't be hot anymore.

From: smarba
14-Jan-20
Wow that was a quick fix Grey Ghost! Glad that worked for you.

From: smarba
14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost: that link is to a National Park Service policy memorandum. Does this also apply to National Forest? For some reason I thought eBikes had been ruled acceptable in NF also. Perhaps not. And in that case how is anyone justified in riding them on NF trails or off-trail in NF?

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20
Who claimed they don't have motors? That's what makes them fun, and more useful than a regular bike.

Like it not, e-bikes are allowed anywhere a regular bike is in National Parks, assuming they meet the definition established by the Dept of Interior. Thank you, Trump administration!! Furthermore, they are allowed in about 40% of National Forests. I suspect the Dept of Agriculture will follow the Interior's lead, and allow them to be used anywhere a regular bike is allowed in the National Forests, soon.

They are here to stay, you might as well embrace them, just like you embrace your 4x4 pickup, ATV, horses, light weight backpacking gear, range finder, GPS, etc, etc...

Matt

From: Pig Doc
14-Jan-20
I agree Matt. There are guys here pissing and moaning about eBikes on trails that are already legal for dirt bikes and ATV's. Really?

BTW, where are your fenders?

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20
Chad, I chose to leave the fenders off because they seemed flimsy and I didn't like how they attached to the bike. I may regret that decision if I ride in mud or snow, but I don't see myself doing that too often.

Matt

From: cnelk
14-Jan-20
Grey Ghost - those 4" fat tires really toss up the water and mud, even with just a little moisture. I think you're gonna want to have some sort of fender.

I made mine from some kydex material - same stuff gun holsters are made from - cheap and easy. Like a previous girlfriend I had.

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20
Great idea, BK, for lack of a proper name to address you by.

My main problem with the Bakcou fenders was they attached with a single screw on the front. And they recommended drilling holes in the rear fenders, then use zip-ties to secure the fender on the rear rack. That screamed lack of engineering to me, so I left them off until I come up with a better solution.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
14-Jan-20
Department of Interior also legalized them on BLM and in Wildlife Refuges, wherever regular bikes can go. The USFS Regional Trails Supervisor told me he supports them wherever bikes can ride in NF, the pilot programs aren't showing any detrimental impact, and he believes USFS will eventually allow them on at least closed roads, if not single track trails.

Will this "ruin" hunting? Mayne so. Depends on your perspective. For me, it has opened up new possibilities where I don't have to compete with hordes of Sitka Warriors. Did compound bows ruin bowhunting? Perhaps, but they aren't going away either.

From: Pig Doc
14-Jan-20
What the apparent purests here fail to admit is that without technical advancement our sport would be dead. Bow hunters and hunters in general are the largest supporters of wildlife conservation and hunting rights in the country. If we take all the technology away and take bow hunting back to it's purest form of stick bow, string and wooden arrows there would be next to no one supporting our sport. If eBikes help old geezers like me to continue to support bow hunting and encourage some young folks into our sport it's good for hunting in general and bow hunting in particular. The self-centered whiners here are the guys afraid some outsider will find their honey hole on an eBike. Tough shit.

From: Ucsdryder
14-Jan-20
Pig doc, pretty soon you’ll be able to access your favorite spot with a 1 man drone. Keeping the old geezers in the field since 2030! ;)

From: Grey Ghost
14-Jan-20
In past years, my regular MTB was my main tool for getting into hunting shape. In recent years, I lost motivation for my MTB, when my aging knees and back became sore for several days after a strenuous ride.

This e-bike has renewed my enjoyment for riding a bike. I can still get the workout I desire, with much less pain, and I travel 3-4 times farther.

What’s not to like about that?

Matt

From: Rut Nut
14-Jan-20

Rut Nut's Link
Well, you guys finally convinced me...............just because it has a motor, doesn’t mean it’s a motorized “vehicle!”

So I’ve decided to take my new ice-fishing contraption out west with me next year for my elk hunt. In case you are not familiar with the Snowdog................it is not considered a motorized “vehicle” , therefore it does not have to be registered like an ATV, UTV, dirt bike(motorcycle) or snowmobile.

It has a top speed of 25 mph and has a cargo capacity of 600 lbs and range of 50 miles with it’s 1.75 gal gas tank.

Can go just about anywhere you can hike or mtn (or E-)bike.

Should come in VERY handy on the Elk Hunt next year! ;-)

From: Rut Nut
14-Jan-20

Rut Nut's Link
Let’s try this again! ;-)

From: smarba
15-Jan-20
What's not to like Rut? You have me convinced: I'm down with the Snowdog!

From: smarba
15-Jan-20
In past years, my regular bow was my main tool for getting ready for hunting. In recent years, I lost motivation to shoot, when my aging shoulders and back became sore for several days after a strenuous round of shooting practice.

This Xbow has renewed my enjoyment for shooting. I can still get the accuracy I desire, with much less pain, and practice time. And I'm accurate 3-4 times farther.

What’s not to like about that?

LOL

From: fubar racin
15-Jan-20
Good for you Smarba rock that Xbow flag glad your still hunting :)

From: tobywon
15-Jan-20
Not sure if any state requires registration at this point, but I wonder as technology gets to the point of more energy/horsepower I wonder if they will start. Kind of like not having to register my canoe, but if I put an electric motor on it I now do.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
Smarba, I'm glad you found a tool that keeps you motivated to continue hunting.

I view my e-bike as an investment in my physical fitness. No different than a membership to a gym, or a piece of workout equipment in my basement. The only difference is, I can also use it effectively while hunting. Win win.

Matt

From: smarba
15-Jan-20
I'm just saying it's funny. We don't want more people to participate by using Xbows, but we're all aboard with more people participating by using eBikes.

From: Rut Nut
15-Jan-20

Rut Nut's embedded Photo
Rut Nut's embedded Photo

From: Jaquomo
15-Jan-20
I don't think there's a single person in this country who thinks, "Gee, I have an assist bike. Think I'll take up bowhunting for elk!"

From: Scoot
15-Jan-20
I agree with both smarba and rut. People are mostly against these changes, unless they benefit directly. In that case, they are all for them. That's not a universal, but it's mostly true.

It's not unlike my friend who took a strong moral stand against stem cell research. Then he got a aplastic anemia and adamantly supported stem cell research with no recollection of his previous stance on the matter. It's remarkable how much people's values and sense of right and wrong are influenced by their personal situation and how much they stand to gain. And.... importantly, these things mostly happen without people being the least bit aware of them.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
Smarba, if you truly had to switch to a Xbow due to shoulder problems, then surely you recognize how technology is helping you to stay in the game....just like e-bikes and countless other technological advances have for other hunters.

IMO, the reality is most hunters don't even ride bikes, much less a $4K e-bike. As such, all this hand-wringing about how e-bike riders are going to swarm the woods is mostly nonsense. Yes, e-bikes will expand the range of a few hunters, but I doubt they will ever become as popular as ATVs, because they still require a certain level of physical fitness and effort to ride, especially off-road.

Matt

From: relliK reeD
15-Jan-20
Rut Nut I too have a snowdog. They are a fantastic unit for wood cutting,ice fishing and dragging out game. In Maine we now have to register them as either a snowmobile or a ATV.

From: Pig Doc
15-Jan-20
"I'm just saying it's funny. We don't want more people to participate by using Xbows, but we're all aboard with more people participating by using eBikes."

Apples and oranges, just like your earlier ridiculous analogy of corn piles and eBikes. Apparently everything you dislike falls into one category and you lack the ability to think about concepts like weaponry, transportation and hunting methods as separate concepts.

Can't wait to see the video of Rut Nut taking his Snowdog on a single track in the mountains. :)

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
Yeah, I'm sure that lawn mower engine in Rut's Snowdog won't spook any game, either.

;-)

Matt

From: Ucsdryder
15-Jan-20
Pig doc, I think he’s referring to people saying “I’m getting old/lazy/injured so I should be able to use technology”. Basically using technology to make life easier. Not sure how it’s apples to oranges. I get it, we all get old and we can’t do things we once could. It’s life.

From: Rut Nut
15-Jan-20
Peter- I’m sure the loophole will be closed in the future and most states will eventually require registration. That’s why I am going (out West) next year! ;-)

Pigdoc- Of course it won’t go anywhere, but It will go many places an e-bike cannot go due to it’s much lower Center of Gravity and the increased traction due to the snowmobile type track!

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
Doesn't the Snowdog have an automatic shutoff feature if it's used on steep terrain due to lack of oil flow? Surely you're joking about trying to use that thing out west, Rut.

Matt

From: cnelk
15-Jan-20
Along with my ebike outdoor technology, I also have a Harley, a snowmobile, 2 ATVs, a boat and a camper.

Win Win of technology for every season :)

From: smarba
15-Jan-20
Pig Doc:

I didn't switch to Xbow, I simply replaced "eBike" with "Xbow" in Grey Ghost's post.

I don't know WHY we strive to include everybody in everything. I'm too short to dunk a basketball, so please lower the net for me. My shoulder hurts so can I use an Xbow during bow season? I can't cock my Xbow, can I use a rifle during bow season? It's too hard for me to hike into a Wilderness, can I use my MTB? It's too hard for me to MTB, can I use a little motor? All pretty consistent positions IMO.

Not against technology, never have been. Just because you assume no NEW people with an eBike will take up elk hunting, there are already too many elk hunters (i.e. not enough tags to meet demand) so changing methods of access could and probably will have huge repercussions.

Like I've said countless times, eBikes are here, they are becoming legal in many places, and I may even use one. But the very same arguments AGAINST certain things are being used FOR eBikes. Funny IMO.

From: Pig Doc
15-Jan-20
John, My point is I can have an opinion on eBikes, I can have an opinion on baiting and I can have an opinion on Xbows. They are totally unrelated. Just because I'm in favor of eBikes has nothing to do with my opinion on Xbows or baiting. Lumping them all in one is intellectual laziness.

Perry, where can you legally take that Snowdog (out West) that you can't take a 4-wheeler?

From: NoWiser
15-Jan-20
What's interesting is that the generation that was able to enjoy the benefits of areas not accessible by motorized vehicles is so willing to take that opportunity away from future generations because "it's not as easy for them as it used to be."

From: Pig Doc
15-Jan-20
Smarba, Using your logic I can replace "compound" with "stickbow" and "carbon arrow" with wooden arrow". Don't you think more people took up bow hunting when compound bows came out? Is that bad? I see you use compounds so I assume you see no problem with the proliferation bow hunting after the invention of the compound bow. Where did I assume no "NEW" people with an eBike will take up elk hunting? As I posted above, we need more bow hunters as they support conservation and the future of our sport. IMO it's hypocritical to criticize the use of eBikes using the argument they will increase the number of archery elk hunters, while supporting the use of compound bows, which have contributed more to the increasing number of archery elk hunters than any invention in history.

From: Pig Doc
15-Jan-20
"What's interesting is that the generation that was able to enjoy the benefits of areas not accessible by motorized vehicles is so willing to take that opportunity away from future generations because "it's not as easy for them as it used to be.""

And exactly where are these areas? I've canoed the BWCA for many of the past 45 years. Can't take eBikes there. I've elk hunted the Pecos Wilderness many times with my own horses. Can't take eBikes there. You can't take eBikes into any designated wilderness areas and National Parks. Where are all these "areas not accessible by motor vehicles" that are going to be overtaken by eBikes? Most places accessible by eBikes, including National Forests, are already accessible by 4-wheelers and dirt bikes.

From: smarba
15-Jan-20
"What's interesting is that the generation that was able to enjoy the benefits of areas not accessible by motorized vehicles is so willing to take that opportunity away from future generations because "it's not as easy for them as it used to be"" BINGO!!!! More clearly stated than I've been able to do.

Pig Doc: Jaq and others have specifically said they already do and/or want to use eBikes in areas NOT already accessible by ATVs and dirt bikes. Nearly every NF has Motor Vehicle Use Maps, which indicate which roads & trails are accessible by particular vehicles. I am TOTALLY IN FAVOR OF eBikes being used where motorized vehicles are allowed.

But there are LOTS of areas NOT PREVIOUSLY open to motorized vehicles (i.e. every place not designated as a trail or road) that have suddenly become open to EBs. A little motor is now OK there. And we're happy about that because it makes it easier and we're getting older...

Regarding compound bows, etc. I wasn't around when decision was made. Perhaps I would have spoken out against compounds then, who knows?

If a ruling came out that stated "every trail that an ATV can physically drive on is now open to ATVs" or "off road travel by ATVs is allowed anywhere and everywhere" most would be livid. But make it open to EBs that only a few of us own...great for ME!

From: NoWiser
15-Jan-20
Plenty of areas with roads/trails that are off limits to motor vehicles that aren’t designated Wilderness, Pig Doc.

From: Ucsdryder
15-Jan-20
I’m all for turning back the clock. Let’s have some truly primitive units. No wheels or sights on bows, no modern powder, no optics, no everything. Stick, string, fixed blade, black powder without rifling, flint lock only. Let’s go! Those units would quickly be some of the most sought after units in the state.

From: fubar racin
15-Jan-20
How bout we all ride our horses from the house to those units in our buck skins and loin cloths too! If primitive is the way just go all the way with it, why pick and choose technology?

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
"What's interesting is that the generation that was able to enjoy the benefits of areas not accessible by motorized vehicles is so willing to take that opportunity away from future generations because "it's not as easy for them as it used to be."

Please tell me where all these non-motorized areas are that are suddenly going to be invaded by older out of shape hunters on e-bikes. If you think that will be the case in Colorado, you don't know a lick about hunting or biking in the CO mountains. In 50 years of hunting in Colorado, I don't recall ever seeing a hunter on a MTB using a trail that couldn't also be ridden on a with an ATV. Now, suddenly, we're going to see a bunch of geriatric hunters pedaling up trails where ATVs can't go? Right.

I will be scouting and hunting with my e-bike on BLM land where any yahoo with 4 wheels, and a tank full of gas, can legally drive. The difference is, I won't be alerting game to my presence and spooking them out of the county like the army of ATVs and 4x4s do.

Matt

From: smarba
15-Jan-20
Matt:

I think that's a PERFECT use for EB. Silent, deadly. Used where motorized vehicles are allowed.

But in most areas MTB can legally be ridden on elk trails, cattle trails and even cross country. Now an EB is the considered "the same" as a MTB.

I have NEVER said turn back the clock and use spears, whatever. Most are entirely missing my point (or intentionally choosing to do so) and blowing my comments way out of proportion (no surprise).

ucsdryder made my point to the extreme "pretty soon you’ll be able to access your favorite spot with a 1 man drone. Keeping the old geezers in the field since 2030! ;)" Why would easier more efficient access in the form a drone be bad? But EB be good?

From: Ucsdryder
15-Jan-20
Fubar, if you can’t see the differences between archery hunting and going to work, I don’t think anybody can help you!

Gray ghost, I think he’s referring to the comments further up from people saying it’s necessary because they’re getting old and can’t access the areas they used to access.

From: NoWiser
15-Jan-20
I have no problem with using Ebikes where wheelers are allowed, Matt. In fact, I plan on putting a motor on my fat bike in the next year or two for exactly this purpose. I have no problem with Ebikes and Ebikes users. In fact, I think they are cool as heck. What I have a problem with is the people saying they should be considered non-motorized vehicles because they are under a certain wattage. Unless the wattage of an Ebike is 0, they are a motorized vehicle and any argument that they shouldn’t be treated as such is ridiculous.

From: KSflatlander
15-Jan-20
This is a bit off the subject and might be a dumb question but what do you all do with your ebikes once you get to your destination and hunt? Chain it to a tree and hide it?

I’m only asking because all this talk and GGs photos has me considering getting one. The boss doesn’t know I’m thinking about it so let’s keep it between us.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
"But in most areas MTB can legally be ridden on elk trails, cattle trails and even cross country. Now an EB is the considered "the same" as a MTB."

Again, I've never seen a hunter on a MTB on a trail like you've described. I know some guys do it, but they are ultra fit athletes who are few and far between. Do you really think a "small motor" is going to change that in CO, or anywhere in the Rocky Mountains? If so, you haven't done much hunting or biking out here. Heck, I have maintained county roads around my place with hills that are brutal to ride on a MTB. The e-bike only makes them slightly less brutal. You still have to pedal an e-bike. They aren't motorcycles.

Matt

From: fubar racin
15-Jan-20
I never mentioned going to work I said ride your horse from your house to the trad unit... but really at one point a rider broke horse was pretty modern so maybe that doesn’t belong in “trad” either......

From: APauls
15-Jan-20
If you don't have an ebike, rejoice. All the means is that those guys will travel further pushing the elk back to where you are - within walking distance of your truck. They spend the money, they do the work - what could be better?

Assuming ebikes make the massive difference you are scared of - do you think that at the end of the day the success rate of archery elk hunters will change? Somehow suddenly, the guys that couldn't kill elk before because they can't seal the deal for whatever reason after sitting on a golden motorized seat are now suddenly going to become bonafide elk killers? Not happening. So what does that mean? It sounds like it spreads the pressure out, making the elk more accessible for the average guy without horses, llamas, goats, or ebikes, and anyone who normally kills elk will continue to do so because they adapt and overcome. Just like the elk do. You still need to find the elk, you still need to get in range of the elk, put yourself in the right wind, right location, maybe call or don't call that elk to get to that spot. Same for mulies or whatever. The same # of tags are going to be given out, and the success rate will be the same. Just the location of these kills may change.

The ability for people to escout has a FAR more reaching affect on losing your "hot spot" than ebikes ever will. The hunter is still only as dangerous as the guy sitting on the seat. And that's why it's a completely different argument than a crossbow. A crossbow changes the danger factor of the guy holding it. Even though I truly hope any hunter with legitimate shoulder issues picks one up and keeps hunting.

From: Pig Doc
15-Jan-20

Pig Doc's embedded Photo
Pig Doc's embedded Photo
Beautiful day in Grand County so I took a break from arguing with anti-eBike luddites and went for the first ride on my new Bakcou Mule. I rode about 5 miles up some steep grades and got my heart rate up. As Matt pointed out, these are not motorcycles, you still have to pedal. I stayed in eco mode and pedaling up-slope was hard work. The fat tires worked good in snow but were a little dicey going down-slope on icy grades. Not sure this will be a game changer for hunting as I still have horses and assorted motorized vehicles to access hunting ground. More than anything I'm going to enjoy hitting the trails this summer for scouting and fitness. Could be a nice tool for fly fishing as well.

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
A few years back I drew a mountain goat tag in a unit on the Continental Divide. The trail I used almost every morning to get into goat country was 9 miles one way and ascended 3000’ vertical. The first third of the trail, about 3 miles, was an old logging road that was closed to motorized traffic, and it’s a popular ride for local MTB enthusiasts. One day, I decided to ride my MTB up that section of the trail thinking it would save me time and some energy. Holy he!!, was I wrong. 1/2 mile into my ride I was sucking air much harder than if I had been walking. I ended up pushing my bike up a good portion of that 3 miles. I didn’t save any time and burned far more energy than walking. The ride down was just flat out scary. An e-bike would have made that ride only marginally easier, and I doubt I would have used one even if I had it at that time.

My point is, if you’ve never pedaled a bike up steep loose rocky terrain at 10-12K elevation, you have no idea how difficult it is. I truly admire the people who can do it, but they are a rare breed. I don’t think a 750W motor on a bike is going to transform the average hunter into a mountain conquering beast.

Matt

From: Ucsdryder
15-Jan-20
Lol Matt! I bought a mtb a few years ago to use for trail riding and possibly elk hunting. I made it 200 yards, parked the bike and hiked. That was my last foray into mtb on trails. No doubt, that’s some hard work.

From: pirogue
15-Jan-20
Matt, Did you pick the 750 over the 1000, based on cost, regulations threshold, or other reasons?

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
Hey Pig Doc,

Did you get much snow spray from the fat tires, or did the fenders do a decent job of keeping you dry?

Nice looking ebike, BTW. ;-)

Matt

From: Jaquomo
15-Jan-20

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
These are the "backcountry" people I get away from on my assist bike. Opening day, 2019 Colorado elk season, Rawah Wilderness West Branch trailhead, 72 vehicles. The outfitters who took other hunters in to drop camps on Thursday and Friday had already left... I'm not worried about any of the spots I access on my bike being overrun, so long as the Sitka Army prefers "wilderness areas" with solitude.....

Pirogue, can't speak for Matt but I picked the 750 because Colorado law permits them wherever any other bikes can go, and after the USFS Regional Trails Supervisor told me the USFS was heading in that direction (749 watts and below).

From: smarba
15-Jan-20
How long before the Sitka Army starts riding EBs?

From: Dale Hajas
15-Jan-20
My new Snowtrekker Alpine and Knico stove will fit quite nicely in that snowdog Rut. Just sayin:)

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
"Matt, Did you pick the 750 over the 1000, based on cost, regulations threshold, or other reasons?"

Yes I went with the 750, in case I want to ride it where regulations only permit that size motor or smaller. The nice thing about the Mule's motor is that it's actually a 1000W motor that is dialed down to 750 via software. I have the option to switch it to 1000W if I choose to, but I think it would have to go back to the factory to do so.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
15-Jan-20
"How long before the Sitka Army starts riding EBs?"

They won't, because they'll never be permitted in Wilderness without modifying the Wilderness Act, which ain't gonna happen. Sitka Army and Kuiu Warriors crave the solitude wilderness provides, so assist bikes into regular old National Forest doesn't fit the program. Heck, they could ride MTBs into roadless NF now and very few do it because, you know, it isn't regulation Wilderness.

Elk backpack hunting is the new flat-brimmer endurance sport. It isn't about the hunting as much as its about getting so far back in that you're about to pop out the other side. Assist bikes are only for old men and pussies.

From: Pig Doc
15-Jan-20
Matt, The fenders did a nice job of limiting snow spray. I will admit they are probably the cheapest, cheesiest component of the Mule. Everything else is rock solid. I was able to mount them sturdy enough without the zip tie option. The front fender is very straightforward to mount. For the rear one the key is to get your seat height set and then you can mount and adjust the fender to fit properly over the rear wheel. Chad

From: Grey Ghost
15-Jan-20
Chad,

Thanks. I guess I'll install the fenders. Then, the first time I dump the bike and the fenders break off, I'll look for a better option.

My wife skied Mary Jane, today, and said it was beautiful up there. I chose to stay home and pedal my e-bike some more on the front range. I need to purchase a bike rack to haul my e-bike back and forth to Winter Park. The biking trails up there are second to none, but I'm not sure how I'll like riding on snowpack and ice. I'll probably wait until things dry out this spring/summer up there.

Matt

From: Pig Doc
15-Jan-20
I skied Mary Jane yesterday with my wife, son and his fiance. Was really windy but good snow conditions. Today was a much nicer day for skiing!

I too need a rack to put on my Jeep for the eBike. eBike Generation has one and I just saw that Thule has one as well. I'm checking both out. There are also some aftermarket metal fenders that fit the Mule that I'm checking out. As with most things we buy, you can spend as much on accessories as you do on the original purchase.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's Link
Chad,

I have one of those fold-down bike racks for me and my wife's regular MTBs. I think it's a Thule. I've never cared for it because it's not very stable. The bikes jostle around a bunch, especially on rough roads. Lou recommended the Capstone model for my e-bike, which looks a lot more stable (see link). I think that's the one I'm getting.

Edit: After reading some of the reviews on the Capstone rack (I always find the negative reviews more informative), it sounds like it suffers from the same problems I have with my Thule rack...to many moving parts that loosen up and cause the bikes to jostle around. Now, I'm looking into hitch-mounted racks that are designed for small motorcycles. I think that will be a better solution for these heavy e-bikes.

Matt

From: APauls
16-Jan-20
I found no issues with the fenders on my mule. I did however, take rope and wrap it tightly around the rear fender directly to the rear rack so that there is no bouncing of the fender against the rear rack. It is dead quiet. Went through a hunting season no issues.

From: Jaquomo
16-Jan-20
Gosh, Matt, I haul two ebikes all over the place on rough, rutted washboard roads (nothing is paved where I live) and have had zero issues with the Capstone carrier in two full seasons. One thing it has is a locking bolt through the receiver to minimize hitch wobble. Whatever you get, be sure it has that.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's Link
I'm glad it has worked for you, Lou.

The 70 lb maximum load limit of the Capstone is why I'm looking at other options. My e-bike alone will push that limit. A second bike would exceed it. I'm leaning towards a small motorcycle rack with a more simple design, 400-500 lb capacity, for less money. See link.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
16-Jan-20
Matt, understood. We carry two on mine all over the place on rough roads with no issues at all, nothing like some of the bad reviews indicate. We take the batteries off to reduce weight. I love how everything on it locks with a key so no worries about somebody swiping anything with bolt cutters by cutting a cable or padlock. But if you're going with the motorcycle rack, get one that will haul two bikes. You'll thank me later.

From: eBike John
16-Jan-20
Matt, Glad you like it. I knew you would though :-) Keep us posted on your shenanigans. And if you take any good pics or videos with it I'd be happy to post them on the website.

From: Jaquomo
16-Jan-20
You might want to look at the Overdrive Sport 2 bike rack, made to carry ebikes. Similar design as the Capstone but looks like it has an extra reinforcement.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
Lou,

My wife and I have had MTBs for 20-plus years and I've never hauled both bikes, just mine. She doesn't like riding around our ranch, because of the rutted washboard roads, but she loves pedaling around Winter Park, so that's where her MTB resides year-round. I think a single bike rack will suit my purposes fine.

The added benefit of the dirt bike rack is I could a strap a large cooler, cargo carrier, or even a dead critter to it, if necessary. When we drive down to Florida for a full month every spring, my wife manages to pack my pickup to the gills, and we often do battle over what items get left behind. A little extra cargo space would be nice.

John, thanks for providing excellent customer service on my purchase, and for the Bowsite discount. I'm sure I'll be referring a few friends to you, when they have an opportunity to ride my Mule.

Matt

From: Pig Doc
16-Jan-20

Pig Doc's Link
This is the rack I'm looking at. Reviews are good and looks pretty rugged. I need to make sure it will clear the spare tire on my Jeep.

From: smarba
16-Jan-20
Look at your local Craigslist. Most of the name-brand bicycle racks are solid: Thule, Yakima, Saris...

Many are designed to carry 2-4 bicycles, so one EB should be fine. I think you'll find a used one for a lot cheaper.

The screw-hitch pin that Lou referred to helps keep the racks from rocking and rolling. But you can always run a tie down strap to each side of your bumper.

I'd think any of the name brands will be plenty robust. The last one I bought on Craigs was a 2 bike model Thule and was $75 super stout...

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Chad, they sure are proud of those racks at E-bike Generation. Sheesh!!

Smarba, the rack I have is a 4-bike Yakima like this one, only it's 12 years old, so maybe they've improved. I've never cared for it. There's no way I'm hanging my e-bike on it. In fact, I'd give it away for shipping costs.

The dirt bike rack is the route I'm going. It should be a very stable solution.

Matt

From: smarba
16-Jan-20

smarba's embedded Photo
Example Thule
smarba's embedded Photo
Example Thule
GG I would NOT recommend a rack that hangs the bikes like your photo. Most brands have models that the wheels sit in and some type of system holds the wheels in place.

From: cnelk
16-Jan-20
There are several adapters you can get to tighten up the sloppy receiver hitch - here is one

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
Hey thanks, Cnelk. I think I can fabricate one of those myself!

I tow my Jeep behind my RV a few times a year. The RV's hitch receiver is getting very sloppy, and I can feel it clunk back and forth every time I pull to and away from a stop. That nifty little idea should fix it right up.

Matt

From: Will
16-Jan-20
Guys, if you are going to ride in snow/ice, while studded tires are expensive they are far safer and more secure. In plain snow the normal tires are fine... But if ice is around, forget it, it's not if, but when and how hard will you kiss earth. So, if you are going to ride in icy conditions, bite the bullet and buy a set of studded tires for cold weather.

Get/make fenders. For riding for fun/fitness, that's optional. But for hunting, as someone noted, any puddles you go through, a dewy field, etc, and the bike will be covering your back with wetness... That's not going to be fun in a tree/blind/stalking.

Play with tire pressure. Less pressure creates more traction if it's snowy/muddy/slick. You do increase pinch flat risk, so how much less you use is something you have to experiment with. It can make a massive difference!

From: APauls
16-Jan-20
Are you guys not worried about dust getting in the motor behind a vehicle in a bike rack? I've never left mine in a spot it could get dusty.

From: Jaquomo
16-Jan-20
Real dusty where I live but supposedly the Bafang motor is sealed so it shouldn't/ hasn't been an issue. The chain and rear sprockets are another matter but I keep them as clean as I can, considering, and spray with a dry chain lube. Just riding trails and logging roads around here kicks up dust.

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
Will, thanks for the info.

So, these fatty tires really kick a lot of rain, snow, mud, etc...eh? I've never had fenders on my MTBs, and never felt like I needed them, but perhaps this e-bike is a different animal. Of course, my MTB was just a fitness tool, so I was selective when I rode. I do plan to scout and hunt on my Mule, so I best get my fenders on.

Matt

From: Grey Ghost
16-Jan-20
Adam, yes, the thought of blasting my Mule with dust, or worse, wet road grime, has occurred to me. I was thinking about a getting a full cover to put over mine, but I'm not sure how effective they are.

Matt

From: Habitat
17-Jan-20
If you have a handicap permit then fine use a xbow during archery.And really it doesn't take much to get these permits, if not no reason you need to use during archery other than you don't want the limitations of archery,use it during gun season as you have a scope,butt stock forearm etc.

From: Jaquomo
17-Jan-20
Matt, I have a cover for mine and it works great when its sitting around, but not so much when driving down the road. The only thing I worry about in rain is the controller, because a friend had his and his girlfriend's short out when they were saturated for a couple days. So I carry a couple quart Ziplock freezer bags in the tool pouch (along with rubber bands to hold it tight, a set of Allen wrenches, flat repair kit and Co2 filler cartridges, and a business card with emergency contact info in case I'm knocked out). Its been in a LOT of rain and never had a problem, including driving down the highway.

From: Grey Ghost
17-Jan-20
Nice to know, Lou, Thanks..

I've always been anal about about keeping my chit clean and in top working order. My 15-year old RV looks and operates like brand new, for example, despite a lot of use. That approach has always paid off when I decided to sell my chit, and upgrade. My Mule will get the same treatment. I'm just working thru the details.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
17-Jan-20
Me too. What you will learn, especially on an extended elk hunt, for instance, is that these things are very rugged and pretty much bomb-proof. If you ride the kinds of places I do, you're going to bang the pedals on rocks, sticks will jump up into the chain or spokes or sprockets, the chain and sprockets will get covered with dust and trail grime, mud will dry on the bottom of the Bafang, you'll bang the handlebars and brake levers now and then when you tip over,and unless you ride into town every day and find a car wash or only ride on flat pavement, you'll learn to accept a certain amount of wear and tear, battle scars and grime as part of the process.

Took me about a week to figure out how bomb-proof they are, after the bike dumped onto the interstate at 70 mph and was still rideable, albeit with a slightly bent handlebar and one tweaked pedal stem. That showed me some things.

From: Grey Ghost
20-Jan-20
Just an update for those who are interested....

I've ridden my Mule almost every day, for 5-8 miles, since I received it, and I always look forward to the next ride. I get some inquisitive looks from passing cars, because you don't see bike riders too often on the county roads around here, but the looks usually include a friendly hand-wave.

Yesterday, my wife, who has been less than enthusiastic about the Mule, took her first ride on it. As predicted, her first question upon returning was "is there a cheaper model that would work for me?" Ha! It looks like I'll be giving e-bike John another call soon. ;-)

One question, is it normal for the batteries to regain some charge after sitting overnight? I noticed at the end of my ride yesterday the display showed the battery at 94%. This morning it's displaying 100%. Hmmm....?

Matt

From: KSflatlander
20-Jan-20
Lol...the boss changed her tune. Way to flip the script on her.

From: cnelk
20-Jan-20
@Grey Ghost

When I got mine, I actually read thru the instructions and payed close attention to the battery section. They called for a 'Balancing of cells' - meaning after the first 3 times you ride, remove the battery and let it charge for 12hrs each time. Even tho the green light on the charger was on, continue charging for 12 hrs.

Now that I have completed that process, I charge until the green light comes one.

From: Timex
20-Jan-20
I was very interested in this thread until I googled e bikes & saw the price $$$$$$$$ WOW but if it gets ya into remote areas I guess it's worth it no different than the $22000 I paid for the motor on my offshore boat

From: Grey Ghost
20-Jan-20
Thanks, Cnelk.

Yeah, I kinda skimmed over the battery section and didn't see the "balancing of cells" part. I let the original overnight charge get down to about 75%, then recharged it overnight again, but I didn't charge it after each of the first 3 rides. Hopefully that didn't compromise the batteries too much.

The gain in percentage of charge after sitting overnight still confuses me. I figured if I shut it off with a 93% charge, it be at 93%, or slightly lower, the next time I turned it on. Maybe that's all part of the "balancing" thing with these large battery packs. I'll keep monitoring it ...

Matt

From: Jaquomo
20-Jan-20
This is from electricbike.com: "Do not store your lithium batteries either fully charged or fully discharged….but somewhere in the middle. If you have a smart charger, we recommend you charge to 80 percent and store there.

If you are storing for a long period of time (like the several months of winter), charge it to around 50 percent and keep it in a fire-safe place.

If you have to choose between storing your batteries empty or full…choose full to keep the battery from drifting down to a level that it cannot be safely charged"

From: APauls
20-Jan-20
Matt (Grey Ghost) I clicked on your handle to see where you are from but it didn't say. Wanted to know the climate. Reason being, is about batteries in the cold. Best comparable I can think of is a propane tank. When it gets real cold, you can't use all the propane from a tank, it simply won't come out. Your ebike battery is the same. You won't be able to get the same amount of juice from the battery in the cold. The display on your bike will show you what "it can use." After you bring the battery back inside and it warms up, the battery % will come back up. Depending on the temp, this can even happen just from usage and sitting. By that I mean you may be using it, and the battery will be lower. Then you stop and it comes back up. But then if you start using iit, it will have a dramatic drop to begin with again. My bet is it's just a temperature thing. Come summer time that won't happen. Same thing happens on my ebike, battery ice auger, and battery power cells.

From: Grey Ghost
20-Jan-20
Thanks Adam.

I'm in central Colorado. Not sure why that's not showing on my profile. I keep my mule in a non-heated garage. The weather has been moderate, lows in the 20s, highs in the 40-50s. I shut it off yesterday after my ride, at the daytime highs, showing 93% on the display. I left the battery on the bike overnight. This morning, at the daytime lows, it showed 100%. Kinda opposite behavior of what you explained.

Matt

From: APauls
20-Jan-20
sorry thought I also said I do think it will show a higher charge while in rest than in use in cold temps. In warm temps you won’t have that variation. “While in use” is the big thing. I’d lay money down this won’t happen if you use it in a warm environment.

From: Grey Ghost
20-Jan-20
I gotcha. Thanks for that explanation, it makes more sense now.

One other question for Mule owners. Is there a way to adjust the seat front to back? I'd like to adjust mine rearward due to my long legs. When I looked at it yesterday, it appeared I could only adjust the horizontal angle, but not front to back.

Which brings me to one construction criticism I have for Bakcou. As I mentioned earlier, the assembly instructions were only adequate. And the PDF owner's manuals that John sent me are a bit lacking. There's nothing about adjusting the seat for proper ride height, for example. And there's very little operating and maintenance instructions. Like, do you have to be pedaling to shift gears like a regular MTB? Can you shift gears while using the throttle? What's is Eco and Sport mode, and when are either modes preferable? Can you change assist levels while using the throttle? Is there any periodic maintenance on the motor necessary? How and and when should you adjust the brakes? How do you adjust the front suspension? Is there a warranty, if so, how long? I've answered some of my questions simply by riding it, and experimenting, but I think these details should be covered in the manual.

Matt

From: eBike John
21-Jan-20

eBike John's Link
Hi Matt, I reckon the lithium cells in the cold are playing with the numbers, BAKCOU are oming out with a sleeve to cover the battery area ( a type of wetsuit ) to reduce the strong contrasts between hot and cold. Once it's available I send one your way. If there are any questions you didn't get an answer to I'd be happy to get back to you, just let me know what's still on your mind.

Regarding the user manual, you're not the first to say it's a bit thin on details. sure, I've never found a user manual that is rich in info, but I'll pass that on and show them the feedback.

As for your wife, good news is, BAKCOU are launching a few new models in April, I just updated the BAKCOU collection page last night with the soon to arrive new models. namely a Step Through version of the Mule, and a rear hub version called the Flatlander, so while it has all the best components that the Mule uses, it has a rear hub motor, taking the cost down quite a bit, and it will perform better on flat to small hills. I'll drop a link to the collection page.

From: Grey Ghost
26-Jan-20
Thanks John!!

Just a quick update and a question....

I've put about 50 miles on my Mule since I got it, and I'm still loving it. I'm starting to the feel the fitness benefits, too. My legs and wind are getting stronger, and I've lost a notch on my belt. ;-)

A few observations. The fenders are definitely the cheapest component on the Mule. Both front and rear fenders rattled loudly when riding over rough washboard. I used zip-ties to secure the rear fender, so it's quiet now. The front fender still slaps against the frame on the roughest washboard. Not sure how to fix that. I'll probably just take it off.

The advertising that claims these e-bikes are totally silent is a little misleading. The fat tires make quite a bit of road noise on the county roads I've been riding. The motor also has an audible humming noise when it is assisting, like a golf cart, but not as loud. The humming gets higher pitched the more assist I use. If I ride with no assist, the noise goes away. And there is the usual chain noise when you shift gears like all MTBs have. Overall, it's much much more quiet than any 4-wheeled vehicle with an engine, but not as quiet as walking.

I've also noticed while pedaling uphill that downshifts sometimes take several pedal strokes before the actual shift occurs. And there's a brief moment while it's shifting that the assist cuts off. It's not a big deal on the roads I've been riding, but I can see that being problematic when trying to maintain momentum and balance on more difficult terrain. I'm not sure if that's normal, or if my Mule needs an adjustment of some kind. John?

And finally my question. I've read conflicting information on how to charge for maximize battery life. Some say you should charge to 100% after each ride, which I've been doing. Others say you should try to maintain a range of 60-80% charged to increase the lifespan, but my charger has no way of doing that. What do you guys do, or am I worrying about nothing?

Matt

From: APauls
26-Jan-20
I disagree on the noise vs walking. Might be noisier than stalking, but not walking IMO. ESPECIALLY once there’s snow or leaves on the ground. It is noisier than walking on pavement or lawn. But in hunting situations, quieter

From: Ridgefire
27-Jan-20
I bought a Radrover a couple weeks ago and I am amazed at how well it performs for what I will be using it for. Im 41 and in decent shape and I still get a great workout but cover way more ground than I do on my regular mountain bike. The area's I hunt in western Washington have alot of logging roads and its gonna be awesome for blacktail and bear hunting this season. Once you try one your gonna want to buy one. They are a ton of fun to ride as well.

From: Grey Ghost
27-Jan-20
APauls,

I won't be hunting in snow or leaves with my e-bike. My driveway is typical of the roads and trails I will be using it on. I made 2 videos that demonstrate walking versus riding on my driveway. Have a listen and let me know which you think is more quiet.

Matt

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