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New Illinois archery record kill
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
BOHUNTER09 22-Jan-20
Will 22-Jan-20
PECO 22-Jan-20
Timbrhuntr 22-Jan-20
midwest 22-Jan-20
t-roy 22-Jan-20
BOHUNTER09 22-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 22-Jan-20
Brotsky 22-Jan-20
HeadHunter® 22-Jan-20
1boonr 22-Jan-20
MichaelArnette 22-Jan-20
Grey Ghost 22-Jan-20
Bou'bound 22-Jan-20
Don K 22-Jan-20
RIT 22-Jan-20
Zim 22-Jan-20
PECO 22-Jan-20
LBshooter 22-Jan-20
jstephens61 23-Jan-20
1boonr 23-Jan-20
PECO 23-Jan-20
Will 23-Jan-20
1boonr 23-Jan-20
1boonr 23-Jan-20
midwest 23-Jan-20
Burt 23-Jan-20
PECO 24-Jan-20
jstephens61 24-Jan-20
1boonr 24-Jan-20
Zim 24-Jan-20
JRW 24-Jan-20
1boonr 24-Jan-20
Bou'bound 24-Jan-20
Bou'bound 24-Jan-20
jstephens61 24-Jan-20
jstephens61 24-Jan-20
PA-R 25-Jan-20
Zim 25-Jan-20
midwest 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
jstephens61 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
jstephens61 26-Jan-20
KX500 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
drycreek 26-Jan-20
Highlife 26-Jan-20
KX500 26-Jan-20
jstephens61 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
jstephens61 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
Dpat 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 26-Jan-20
Zim 27-Jan-20
KX500 27-Jan-20
1boonr 27-Jan-20
JRW 27-Jan-20
bigdog21 27-Jan-20
From: BOHUNTER09
22-Jan-20
Just read on the Illinois forum that the 2019-2020 archery harvest was 68,000 breaking the 2005 record of 66000. Current estimates are that the herd is 40% less than 2005. FYI crossbows were made legal for all archery seasons two years ago.

From: Will
22-Jan-20
Before jumping on the area of obvious curiosity in your last sentence... How are they estimating herd size? It seems like often herd's are estimated with total kill numbers in mind. It seems impossible for the herd to be 40% smaller while going a few thousand up into a new kill record.

Or am I over reading, and the total all weapons kill is lower, but the archery kill is higher?

From: PECO
22-Jan-20
I was hoping to see a big beautiful buck, interesting thread though I will follow.

From: Timbrhuntr
22-Jan-20
So when did the stats come out ? I thought that Illinois archery was open until the 19th of January they have a count of harvest 3 days after the archery deer season ended thats top notch reporting or am I missing something ?

From: midwest
22-Jan-20
Now that recreational weed is legal there, pretty soon, the guys that are too lazy to learn how to shoot a real bow will be too lazy to hunt at all. ;-)

From: t-roy
22-Jan-20
That’s one possible solution to the baiting issue in Kansas, Nick. If they legalize ganja in Kansas, it will cause the corn prices to skyrocket from the increase in Dorito production, that it will become cost prohibitive for those guys to be able to buy both, as long as they’re motivated enough to hunt.

Now, if they start baiting with Doritos, that could open up an entirely different can of worms. ;-)

From: BOHUNTER09
22-Jan-20
All Illinois kills are entered into the system by the hunter. Harvest stats are known daily.

From: Grey Ghost
22-Jan-20
I don't understand why all states don't have mandatory check-in systems for big game kills. Colorado could sure use one.

Matt

From: Brotsky
22-Jan-20
"Check-in? We don't need no stinking check-in. We'll just email you at the end of the season and trust you to tell us the truth." -SD GFP, probably.

From: HeadHunter®
22-Jan-20
I know one guy here in Illinois that killed a few with a x-bow ...... and he 'missed' many and also wounded 'a lot' not recovered .... THAT bothers me!! I wonder what the state tallies are for a TOTAL of 'that'? ..... 8*((

From: 1boonr
22-Jan-20
The first year crossbows were legal they took 15% of the archery kill and the next year it doubled to 30%. It will be 90% of the kill in a few more years and the overall archery will increase accordingly. They are a very effective way to control deer population when you let them hunt the whole archery season. They are also good at irritating a few people

22-Jan-20
Oklahoma legalized crossbows in 2009 archery harvest has nearly double since then and has overtaken muzzleloader season several seasons ago and inching up on rifle season. Number of “bowhunters” has also nearly doubled since 2009

From: Grey Ghost
22-Jan-20
Jeff those Indiana statistics are surprising to me. More xGun kills than bow kills? Wow. I had no idea they've become that popular back there. I sure hope Colorado never allows them during archery season.

Matt

From: Bou'bound
22-Jan-20
They can still only take one buck though

From: Don K
22-Jan-20
"They can still only take one buck though"

If your referring to IL we can take two bucks

From: RIT
22-Jan-20
I don’t know how you guys find the time or energy to bring this up every other thread. It really becomes nauseating after awhile.

From: Zim
22-Jan-20
Pretty depressing news. Buck quality taking a big hit, especially public. Due to the obscene taxes I moved from Illinois back to Indiana last year, after 12 years. After 8 years of gun hunter conversion to crossguns, the mature buck sightings I used to make in September evaporated to zero this year at the same public property. Trucks were patrolling all the roads every evening in August/September. Just an insane number of trucks, ladder stands overlooking long shooting lanes. Still I gave it a shot and hunted the whole season in IN. It sucked. No doubt I'll observe the same thing in IL next season. So I got a boat to try and escape that crowd. We'll see how that works out. I saw it as the only alternative. But now blew out my left rotator cuff so may be forced to join them. The way this crossgun poison is going the whole midwest will just be another Mississippi/Louisiana/Alabama/Tennessee/Michigan in terms of public buck quality. Pretty pathetic. Leave it to politicians. This is what you get.

From: PECO
22-Jan-20
Crossbows for everyone in the general archery season combined with e-bikes will end bow hunting.

From: LBshooter
22-Jan-20
Yes kills are automated by phone, think,of the guys who don't ad their kill, so the actual number is quite a few more. I do not think that the dnr give a sh@@ about the deer herd any longer. Those of you who know about JTA which is the Joliet training ground for the army is practicing qdma. Well I heard that the dnr culled 1000 deer from the Mobil property which is fit next door so now JTA doesn't allow any does to be shot after the second shotgun season. Going to take awhile to build the herd back, if the dnr will let it grow.

From: jstephens61
23-Jan-20
Yep, no deer left in Illinois. Y’all go somewhere else like Iowa.

From: 1boonr
23-Jan-20
Not a bad idea on that Iowa idea. Iowa bowhunters only killed 21000 deer in 2018 and crossbows aren’t allowed until the late winter primitive season. There are also only half of the bowhunters Illinois has so definitely less crowded for the archery guys

From: PECO
23-Jan-20
Crossbows in the late winter "primitive" season? Yes I know crossbows have been around thousands of years. But scoped crosscompoundbows have not, and are far from primitive.

From: Will
23-Jan-20
Peco, a guy I know calls them: "High powered arrow rifles" Your comment cracked me up.

I'm still confused on this. Is the situation that IL is killing more deer than ever during archery, thanks to xbow folks coming in from gun season? To much going on in my brain and I'm missing the key point from the original post...

From: 1boonr
23-Jan-20
The key point is “archery “ kill in Illinois set a record even though deer population is down. Translation is that crossbows are a very effective deer management device when allowed for 3.5 months of “archery “ season

From: 1boonr
23-Jan-20
Peco- the modern muzzleloader isn’t exactly primitive either. They have a model that can shoot accurately over 400 yards

From: midwest
23-Jan-20
Iowa's late muzzleloader season is open to muzzleloader, crossbow (residents only), handgun, and bow. Nowhere is it called "primitive season".

From: Burt
23-Jan-20
BOHUNTER09 the archery harvest is up to a new record level while the firearm number is way lower than the 2005 record 124k. Looking at the total numbers it seems there may some switching away from guns to archery last year, probably because of crossbows. But total number of animals killed isn't moving the needle so no they arent killing off all the deer. More like a few of the gun guys are shooting a deer earlier and then not going out in the cold with the old 12 gauge.

From: PECO
24-Jan-20
Midwest thanks for clearing up the late season.

1boonr At least in Colorado, sabots, pelletized powder, scopes and electronics are not legal for muzzle loader season. You can have a camera on your gun though as far as electronics goes.

From: jstephens61
24-Jan-20
1boonr, who says the population is down? Down from what, a unsustainable high? No pun intended.

From: 1boonr
24-Jan-20
I don’t know anybody that thinks the population is as high as it was 15 years ago. I liked it at that level. Who thought that level was unsustainable?

From: Zim
24-Jan-20
“a few of the gun guys.........” Haha ya right. IN public is a dumpster fire after 8 years and IL is well on its way. Curious to see what WI does with their separate crossgun season after their same stats. Crossguns are a slow growing cancer that transitions over time. In IN’s case it’s still spreading after 8 years. The gift that keeps on giving.

From: JRW
24-Jan-20
When you check in a deer in IL do you have to state what weapon you used (i.e. compound, crossbow etc.)? In WI they technically have concurrent archery and crossbow seasons, requiring different licenses. It's easy to know exactly how many of what were reported killed with each weapon.

From: 1boonr
24-Jan-20
You specify what weapon. In 2017 15% of kill was crossbows. In year two it was 30%. Year 3 was this year and I haven’t seen the number yet but if I had to guess it’s gonna be above 50% of “archery” kill

From: Bou'bound
24-Jan-20
Is The issue the bag limits or the weapon that matters most

From: Bou'bound
24-Jan-20
I agree there are too many hunters already and they all End up in the woods eventually. It’s Getting ridiculous.

From: jstephens61
24-Jan-20
JTV, you’re talking about other people traipsing around on public ground? Maybe you should invest in some hunting ground of your own. Manage it the way you want.

From: jstephens61
24-Jan-20
The gaul of that landowner the leave his property to his”idiot” son! Wonder why you don’t hunt that property any more.

From: PA-R
25-Jan-20
Around here, the guys that hunt with cross bows, call them bows. JTV, I know what your saying.

From: Zim
25-Jan-20
BTW does anyone know the corrupt paid off legislators by name that were responsible for sponsoring this crossgun legislation in both states? (IN & IL) Because I sure as hell know it wasn’t the DNR managers that were responsible for the fiasco. I’d like to send them some messages.

From: midwest
26-Jan-20
...and poof! He gone

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
What we are witnessing here in illinois is a bought out dnr, that will allow insurance companies & the farm bureau to manage the deer herd and permit sales. You never hear about the dnr battle these two. You didn't see this from the DNR thirty years ago. They actually cared. illinois has CWD, alright. it stands for CASH WANTING DISEASE. It's just going to get worse. And we thought the swamp was deep in Washington?????

From: jstephens61
26-Jan-20
Jeff, you are correct. Partly. Farm Bureau and the insurance lobbies did get their way 20 years ago when the deer herd was booming. The goal now is to keep the herd at a static leave. IDNR fights many battles with lobbyists and special interests that the public never knows about. The actual true of the matter is, it’s the “Department “. They do not pass laws or rules. They propose rules or regulations to comply with the laws, but even these have to be approved by JCAR. The tag fees are not hoarded by DNR. They go into the general fund and are not held. The budget is set by the GA every year. Tag money probably ends up doing road construction in Cook County. I can tell you that the employees at DNR care. If they don’t, it’s because they’re worn down from years of fighting. After 31 years, I was one of them. I know that you will never alter your opinion, so I’ve wasted my time. Just feel like the whole story should be out there. Don’t yell at DNR, lobby your Representatives.

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
Of course Jim. Wouldn't expect anything less from you. You are right, i will never alter my opinion. When Shelton left the county open for late season because the guys from that county, brought proof up to him about the herd being down, made him mad, so he left their county open, when all the other counties around that county, was closed to late season, Shelton didn't have to get that ignorant move approved. He just did it himself. I've talked to quite a few people that has talked with the LYING Shelton, and even Manning, only to see very poor managing practices. Your"Whole story should be out there." is BS. The public should have the right to see how the dnr is SUPPOSEDLY battling lobbyists and special interests, when it's our money's. The reason why we can't see and hear about it is you heroes keep it hush, that way you will always have an out. You are not going to lie to me. I've been hunting and have seen how a TRUE DNR acted compared to today's dnr.

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
Oh, and by the way. I wish the WHOLE STORY would get out, not just what you want to get out, as usual.

From: jstephens61
26-Jan-20
I think you are giving too much to the idea that one man has that much authority. I left as Field Manager, the only persons I answered to was my office Director and the DNR Director. I didn’t have the power to impose state wide rules such as that. Mind sharing what county you’re referring to in your post? Mind refraining from calling me a liar? You don’t even know me and I have not disrespected you in any way.

From: KX500
26-Jan-20
Not sure if it has been spelled out, but the overall harvest was up slightly - archery up, gun down, by about the same amount.

So the sky isn't actually falling, unless you hate crossbows. More of the total deer kill happens before the gun seasons now.

It does suck when what is best for most isn't best for you.

Anybody who hunts deer in Illinois, knows you typically only get 3 days a year to hunt in November with a gun. That's Really why I bought that 1st PSE about '93 or so.

Is it any stretch to think there could be a lot of gun hunters who might want to hunt more but just never found a compound bow to be an attractive option?

But they are all bad because they chose a crossbow, right?

If you ever had a good public land hunting spot, congratulations! And if you had that for multiple years? Wow, I'd say you've beaten the odds.

The idea that you are more entitled to that than an other hunter in the state - well I totally get where the 'crossgun' term comes from & the idea the crossbows aren't bows or archery (disregard that 'bow' in crossbow and that these things also launch arrows from a string powered by limbs).

No, for if crossbows Are bows & archery, then this whole argument is exposed for the selfish and entitled 'those other bad hunters are killing my deer on my (public) hunting ground using crossguns!!!!!' thing that it is. Those other hunters Can't be entitled to hunt those deer in those spots because they are doing it with those wrong crossgun thingies! Because, because, because that's not the way I like to do it!

The public hunting ground 1 mile from my house has been overrun with hunters for years. Gave up on that one pretty quickly, in spite of the convenience factor.

I've lost a few good private spots to family members who decide to hunt. It happens. Tell the landowner Thank You for the time I got to hunt here. And find someplace else to hunt.

Buy land. Very happy I did. Then enforce crossbow hatred all you want.

Yes, it may be a hard sell to convince the DNR that there is a huge problem with the deer harvest, with the 'crossbow decimation' thing not really working out.

Here is another little secret - most hunters only want 1, 2 or 3 dear per year, regardless of how they take them. Many hunters won't bother with finding people who will take one.

But if you want, Jerry Costello Jr. was one of the reps in my area behind crossbow inclusion. Liked him before that & after. He may have already heard from crossbow haters, but maybe not. I believe he is now the head of law enforcement for DNR.

Zim, I'm sure he'd especially like to hear from an Indiana resident, such as yourself!

Anyway, as someone who hunted with a compound for 20+ years and is making that land payment every month, I'll continue to call a crossbow, simply a bow and participate in bowhunting the way I see fit. If you want to hate on me for it, knock yourself out.

But you don't have to look real far into the future to realize that the number of people who you're gonna have to hate, may just out number the number you're going to like, in just the span of a few years.

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
Jim. Where does the money the dnr get from the lobbyists and S. interests go? We all know lobbyists carries money. Let me guess, roads, crook county??? Ya, Right. We never get to hear where that money goes. I told you last year to ask the LIAR shelton. He knows good & well which county he took advantage of just for being proven the herd is down, made him mad, and then took it out on the deer in that county. There's good managing practices.(NOT!) I want to see if he tells you, or lies to you by saying he doesn't know. The people that went up there to him are very respected people, and i bet you know a few of them. Like i said last year that i will not give their name out. I'm sure that LIAR Shelton would never lie to you. I still will say that your "whole story gets out" is still BS. The dnr doesn't carry the TRUTH badge very often. They have proven they can't be trusted. I know this first hand from shelton.

From: drycreek
26-Jan-20
Oh my goodness, another “ xbows are the apocalypse” thread. Yawn..........

From: Highlife
26-Jan-20
KX500 Nice post.

From: KX500
26-Jan-20
And from a deer tag sales perspective, is the state going to prefer to have the firearm only guys stay that way, or buy archery tags in addition to the gun tags they always buy?

I'm sure the state would much rather sell 350,000 tags to get 150,000 deer killed than 300,000 tags to get 150,000 deer killed. Just throwing #s out there for tag sales, don't really know except that the 'sell more tags/kill same # of deer' concept is pretty simple.

From: jstephens61
26-Jan-20
Jeff, it’s sad that you think lobbyists show up at DNR. Just goes to prove how little you know about the way things work in Springfield.

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
So you still won't answer where that money goes?? Doesn't matter when or where the dnr get the money, they still get it. Typical dnr employee. One thing for sure, they have you trained well. Don't forget to ask the KING LIAR about that county. Can't wait to read this response.

From: jstephens61
26-Jan-20
The money goes into the Illinois General Fund as I said before! IDNR gets its budget from the Legislature each year in the form of appropriations. You mentioned the county, that’s why I asked for you to be more specific. Do you know or just blowing smoke? Not a DNR employee as of 4/2/2019. Sorry to disappoint.

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
Look at this State. If you can't see that Springfield is nothing but a sess pool, YOU are the one that doesn't know how Springfield works.

From: Dpat
26-Jan-20
Bentstick81 No offense but you really need to look into how the DNR is funded and how things work in as far as who sets their budget. Its the Department of Natural Resources not the department of deer hunting. It blows me away the people who think the state should supply public ground where they can kill big bucks and see lots of deer. Buy your own or lease if you want control.

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
Didn't say anything about the state should supply public ground for big bucks and see lots of deer. All I'm asking for is the dnr to do their job, and battle all the lobbyists s. interest groups, instead of being led around by their noses. I had a $10.00 dollar phone bill with Shelton, and he lied to me too many times. You are right, i don't have any idea how the dnr is funded, and DEEP DOWN i don't think anyone knows. But i do know the crap that Shelton has pulled, they aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing. The dnr is keeping their mouth's shut and turning away from proof of diminishing deer herd, and getting money pitched to them is the only way i can see the reason they are doing absolutely nothing to help.

From: Bentstick81
26-Jan-20
Hitting the sack. Got to work in the morning. Some of us can't retire yet, like you Jim. Just kidding. Hope your health stay's good and enjoy retirement. We will never agree with each other, but that's fine.

From: Zim
27-Jan-20
KX, Do you happen to know what was Costello’s payday both in cash under the table and in the form of campaign contributions from the crossgun lobbyists? His first task as head of law enforcement for DNR should have been to file corruption charges against himself.

As far as him liking hearing from me, I really don’t care what he likes. As a lifetime stakeholder he owes it to me to listen what I have to say as long as he “serves” at the DNR. Because that’s his obligation and duty. I expect nothing less.

From: KX500
27-Jan-20
I think we all know politics is corrupt. Illinois has to be in the top 3-5 most corrupt states in the nation. And it would certainly seem most politicians are too. If someone got paid for the whole crossbow thing, Costello certainly could have. I said I liked him. He accomplished or tried to accomplish several good things. One of which was abolishment of the FOID card. Of course the cynical side of me figures that was just a Madigan approved vote getter that everybody knew would go no where.

But this guy was still a politician in Illinois. Could be he is guilty of nothing. However, the Costellos are one of those families that good things just seem to happen for. Costello Sr. held the seat before Jr. and got super rich as a 'consultant' continuing to help groups, that he also helped while in office. When you get bored, look into the Costello family. Take your blood pressure meds first.

And again, when the money changes hands, they do all they can to make it look legit. Number 1 priority for (seemingly) all politicians - Keep that Gravy Train Rolling!

But for crossbows, it's even possible that money didn't change hands. Secondary to making themselves rich, IL politicians need as much cash as possible flowing into the general fund.

Crossbow inclusion could have happened as follows:

1) Madigan says "get me more money" in the form of increased deer permit sales and sales tax from some new (hopefully expensive) hunting tool.

2) Insurance companies applied pressure to keep car/deer collisions as low as possible. We all know how much an insurance company want to pay out. And they have a lot of $$ when they need to apply pressure. And there are a few people who die every year in deer/car collisions. There is some good in these self serving goals.

3) It could be that the sale of hunting licenses & deer permits, as a whole was declining. Maybe in this state or maybe as a nation. Maybe hunter recruitment was an issue.

4) It could be that somebody in IL looked at other states that had allowed crossbows into archery season and liked the results. I would think & hope that the crossbow industry helped with this - they'd be stupid not to.

Some times laws are passed on their own merit. Some times the process needs a lot of 'lubrication'.

Lawmakers pass laws. I doubt you'll find may instances where they will say 'Yes I sponsored this bill, but now realize it was really bad'.

Especially when those saying it is bad, are basing this on opinion only, with no data or numbers to support the claim.

From: 1boonr
27-Jan-20
The DNR doesn’t care if you have a quality hunting experience and they definitely do not care about the mature buck population. All they care about is tag revenue.

From: JRW
27-Jan-20
1boonr,

Thanks for the info. I'm glad they keep separate data. In WI the crossbow harvest exceeds the archery harvest by a bit.

From: bigdog21
27-Jan-20
1booner its the IL gov. what else could go wrong lol.

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