P&Y Membership Changes
General Topic
It was announced today that P&Y has made changes to their membership structure as a result of a growing (12% in the last 5 years) decline in voting members. In addition to merging the Supporting Member into the General Member category, they've reduced the waiting period for Regular Members from 10 years to 5.
So, any Regular/Senior Member want to sponsor a new Regular Member?
I will, put my name down Brent. Ed F
Awesome, thanks Ed! If you PM your e-mail I'll send you the application. Otherwise I can just put your name down and send it to the office.
Great news. With this change there are currently over 2,000 current P&Y Club members eligible to step up to Regular membership which includes voting on important issues for the future of bow hunting.
We need more voting members to help decide the direction of the Club. From time to time important by-laws changes are proposed and the more voting members we have the more we can represent the majority of bow hunters.
Pretty sure I qualify for regular membership now as well. This is a great and much needed change! The other bylaw change related to the definition of a bow was excellent as well. My daughters bow is a Hoyt Carbon Spyder FX and is under 30” ATA. I don’t think anyone here would argue that she is “cheating” or not a bowhunter because she’s little!
I seen the dues structure changed as well ....does that change anything for us life members? I think the change in the regular membership is good thing. Applaud the board for its forward thinking.
Trial153: The Board proposes the changes but the Voting Members approves the changes.
The majority of you Life members are very passionate members but as you know cannot vote. A logical adjustment would allow current Life Members to change their existing membership after 5 years to Regular Members, pay the $100 per year and have voting rights.
This is an example of a by-laws change that voting members either approve or not. I urge all eligible members to step up to Regular Membership so more members decide the future of the Club.
You never know when some very controversial changes may arise and require a vote to approve or disapprove...
I definitely would have preferred to vote for each change independently rather than as a package deal. Have mixed feelings regarding a couple of the changes.
Will there be an email or posting on the website soon of the changes so that everyone (especially the associate members that it actually affects) can see them?
I do not support the membership structure. Concerns recently with entries and cameras leaving me scratching my head as well as MANY other current members. Its becoming increasingly difficult to persuade continued commitment. Lots of negative talk was had this last month among my piers when discussing the club. I sure hope it can turn around to being more positive.
Marvin:
I got an email. Call the office and make sure they have your correct email address.
I received the email, realized that I had more than 5 years in the club and completed an application. A Bowsiter and senior member has agreed to sign my app! Looking forward and like the direction of movement!
Ned, did any of those concerns the members have make it in front of the board? How about the issues with the cameras and the entries? I feel like the club wants to be responsive to these things as long as we are making them aware of our concerns and having a conversation with an open mind. Obviously they can't make everyone happy all the time but at least we are having the discussion and hopefully making informed decisions regarding the bylaws.
Loesshillsarcher: Your past concerns about membership have been resolved by this change. Become a Regular Member and be a voter to express agreement or disagreement with a proposed change..
I can assure you to date there has been no communication to Voting members regarding the topics you brought up. You and others becoming Voting members is the only viable way to address future changes. C
PS: I agree with Pav and Roy that future changes should be voted on separately rather than an all or nothing vote.
Pubic conversation is all. That in itself is scary so I try to downplay it amongst members’ discussion due to unverification. I try to advocate positively for the club when immersed in these discussions. My personal problems with the membership were not resolved with recent action. It is what it is. Kudos for trying to improve upon it though.
If a person has a general Life Membership he shouldn't have to buy another Life Membership if he applies to become a regular member of P & Y. Maybe a small fee to upgrade but not start over!
I'd suggest P&Y look into a "Regular/Senior Life Membership" with an appropriate credit applied to those that are already General Life Members and want to upgrade to Regular/Senior Life Members if and when they ever create that category.
There you go Kurt! Agree 100%...
I'd just like to be able to change my Member ID for login on the website to something that makes more sense and I can remember...
Nick...Like - #angelthebunnykiller ? :0
You guys are getting old, I can't believe you can't remember A051264385RY0534NFY off the top of your head? :-)
It sure would make sense to prorate a membership upgrade verses a paid life member now shelling out another 100 a year to vote on top of the life membership they paid.......
Because of membership requirement changes over the years, it will take me more than 22 years as a member before I am eligible to advance to senior membership. Sometimes membership changes help you advance, sometimes they do not
On another note, you guys jinxed me because my login doesn't work......
My guess that was by design Zack!
Heck, I bought a life membership in P&Y after being a Regular Member for several years. Hated worrying that I missed paying my dues, especially with how work was sending me all over and out of the country for a number of years so I didn’t get mail for several years. I still get to vote on issues as a Regular Member and have not paid any annual fees since paying for a Life Membership. Maybe I’m the one off?
A couple of years back, they sent me a Senior Member Application. I didn’t see any advantage to going to Senior Membership since the changes to allow unlimited Regular Members so didn’t apply for Senior.
Can a Life Member not move up to Regular or Senior status?
That definitely needs to be fixed!
I agree with the reduction in time to become a Regular Member. It means something and not being able to be fully a part of the Club has turned some people off in the past.
As it is currently written, if you buy a General Lifetime membership, you forfeit all of the dues money when you move up to a Regular member.
Here's how I understand it: Like Scott said...An Associate Life Member, cannot "convert" to a Regular Life Member, but Regular Life Member CAN convert to a Senior Life Member. By "convert", I mean transfer when eligible without repaying...Zack's situation is ludicrous.
Shouldn't have to pay for Life Membership twice!
There is obviously something wrong with the system when a member with the dedication and extreme effort on behalf of the club like Zackman requires 22 years to advance.
I personally have no intention of advancement, so it all means little to me, but I also see it a a silly barrier to entry for new members. It’s confusing and convoluted, and apparently a moving target. Just MHO.
—Jim
Zack can't advance to Senior membership because he isn't old enough! What I wouldn't give to have THAT problem!
This conservation highlights why the membership structure needs to be revamped........
I became a member of the club soon after graduating. I have contributed to the club here and there since then and participate in a committee for the club currently. President Willems, after the last convention, sent me a personalized note thanking me for a couple things I helped with, which was appreciated. Joined as a life-member at the lowest level soon after it was available and as soon as I was financially able to. So questioning my commitment to the club is not viable. The recent vote is an example of my concern. At what I describe as the peon level, I had no idea these things were being voted on. Many members at my level probably did not as well. At my level I cannot vote for much of anything and do not even receive any info on whom is running for positions etc. in fact we are shunned or at least were from participating in meetings at conventions due to membership levels. Tiered membership is my concern and have expressed that many times but it was not addressed as mentioned above. At least species requirement were addressed. If a person only hunts white tails the person was not able to advance. If the person did not kill anything big the person could not advance. Come on. That is ridiculous. If that said person could contribute volumes to the club but can’t due to a membership requirement is ignorant in my thinking. But thats what it is my way way of thinking. I realize that and understand what the founders were trying to do. But for the club to grow, these membership tiers should be abolished. Members are members. So the tiered thing is my issue I would say. For a life membership to be paid and more on top of that is strange also. Have expressed this before but it was not addressed. Some things were tho which is more than in the past. At least I can vote for Trump again. Haha
"Regular/Senior Life Members if and when they ever create that category"
I believe that already exists? Pretty sure I was provided the opportunity to become a Regular/Senior Life Member when my Regular Member application was approved.
I have made my peace with the membership structure and how it has affected me. It’s a private club and gets to structure its memberships accordingly. I have merely chosen over the years to not let it affect my perception or involvement with the Club. As stated by others, tenure or membership levels should not—and do not (in my eyes)—affect the amount of involvement you can have. P&Y is our best voice. Even if sometimes it is old and crackling... :)
On a side note, I think it is obvious that voice is getting younger and more willing to accept changes.
Pav is correct. As far as eliminating the multi-year process of getting to know a guy before he advances to voting member, I always figured that was to prevent 1000 PETA members (or any other special interest group) from signing up and taking over the club in a coup. But I could be wrong.
No, it’s for grouchy old men to maintain their grip on an organization and drive it into the ground to prove how right they think they are.
And to Zack specifically I personally can not fathom how an organization can hold in contempt an individual who arguably does more than 99% of the members in cumulative time/effort/money/recruitment/advancement/fund raising/etc. I personally believe it’s a travesty, and should be an embarrassment for the club.
But I’m just a peon like Ned...
—Jim
PAV, I just checked on the P&Y website and didn't see any mention of a Lifetime Regular/Senior membership, but did note it was available when I checked my renewal notice. Guess I need to read them instead of just telling my wife to renew it! Kurt
I just want to be included in the Zack parties when the conventions go down. Is that too much to ask? :)
Rick, you may need to wait 5-22 years and change your membership status. We will get back to you on that after we take the next vote that most of us can’t vote on. ;)
—Jim
I’m with Embry. Even though I’m too shy to go talk to anyone at those things ;)
We he becomes a “Senior”, all of us “little people” will be on the outside looking in Rick...
Rick my membership level is so low they gave me the room BENEATH Zack’s room in Omaha. I’m not sure what level that represents? :-)
Come on boys, our parties are all inclusive. That’s what makes it so fun!! I always have an open door to anyone wanting to have a cold drink and talk bowhunting. Except for Kota, I make him pay for my company...
Change is made on the inside. Not in a chat room...
I think that’s kinda the problem. Changes are made on the inside but most members are on the outside looking in.
—Jim
Kurt, you have to look at the By-Laws to find the Regular/Senior Lifetime Member info. It isn't listed under the membership levels.
To be clear, the change from 10 years to 5 years was only one of the changes to the P&Y Regular membership requirements. The "2-c" requirement also changed significantly. Prior requirement was at least three different species with at least one animal entered in the P&Y Club record book.
I hope these changes are not symptomatic of deeper challenges facing the club.
I would hope these changes are trying to address challenges that the club faces. Our membership structure is archaic and one of several limiting factors to our growth. Even if i dont agree agree with the details it good to see the club looking foward and addessing it.
Threads like this do little for recruitment.
“I hope these changes are not symptomatic of deeper challenges facing the club.”
The club faces the same challenges many of our state bowhunting organizations and other conservation groups face. Hunter apathy. If we polled the number of people on this sight who are members of PY it would be tragic the percentage we got. The same with the number of elk hunters that are members of RMEF or mule deer guys in MDF, etc. If everyone would spend as much time focusing on the future of bowhunting, the future of our habitat programs, and enhancing access programs, etc as they did running their damn trail cameras and finding shed antlers we could solve many of the problems not only facing the club but many of our hunting challenges. We all only have so much free time. I make a point to use a set percentage of it to help the sports I love and the species that are important to me. Make a dedication to do the same and we can make a difference.
Has the club compounded any information sheds any light on what main factors are the keeps members from becoming a regular member once they are eligible?
My initial thought would be the significant increase in annual dues from general to reg/sen.
Roy, good thought. Especially for someone that shelled out a life membership already
"Shouldn't have to pay for Life Membership twice!"
The cost of a Lifetime Regular/Senior Membership is currently 4X the cost of a General Lifetime Membership. *IF* the Club granted partial of even full credit of a Lifetime General Membership towards the purchase of a Lifetime Regular/Senior membership, the cost would still be significant. Question is, would a credit >/=25% of the total cost generate many Lifetime Regular/Senior Membership sales? Color me skeptical.
They just need more members not more members of a certain status. This is an archaic way to build an engaged base of members
Good points Bou and Pav.
Why not have one membership level where all members are engaged and treated equally? If the goal of membership is to have members participate and build a vested interest in the organization than this current tiered membership system does more to disenfranchise people then encourage them to upgrade. This "fix" doesn't fix anything it preserves the status quo.
Bureaucracy kills the enthusiasm to participate. We get enough of that in every day Life. As a non-member reading these posts, why would new folks want to join?
My sentiments exactly Frank^^^^^^. There’s been a number of threads over the years encouraging folks to join, but when you dig into it a little you find the things you don’t like. The tiered membership was my biggest turnoff and the fact that I may not even be eligible as a 95% whitetail hunter and 5% pronghorn hunter. It seems rather elitist to me and my name in a book just doesn’t move me.
Lots of “What’s in it for me?” here and not nearly enough what does the club do for our sport and what can I do to help. Very symptomatic of our current society unfortunately.
Not one in the books, never will be. Make an offer, you can own them.
I give a lot back, well over $1k in licenses last year and a ton of habitat work and sharing with newbies. One doesn't have to be part of any organization to give back. Accusing them otherwise is insulting.
Brotsky what does rhe current membership Structure accomplish for the club and the sport?
"As a non-member reading these posts, why would new folks want to join?"
I'm a peon member. It was easy to join and if I have no aspirations to move up in the club, that's easy, too. I'm still supporting what I believe to be a great organization. Just go to a convention and you'll see what a great bunch of passionate and welcoming bowhunters the club is made of.
Midwest,
Appreciate that, but I can see it with the guys I hunt with and spend my money where it directly helps and not pay for overhead for someone else. Lots of folks doing the same here, encouraging habitat projects for example. That works better for me but those of you who do enjoy the organization, good for you!
for the cost of two bottles of deer piss you can support the club for a year. It’s a better investment in the sport.
Instead of piss, I'll spend it on seed:-)
I'm guessing most guys who newly join are unaware of membership structure, meaning that aspect has no bearing on their decision to become a member. To echo what midwest stated above....if you love bowhunting, and were ever to attend a convention, I think you'll find that you'd want to be involved with this organization and it's people for the rest of your life.
Certainly one can have an impact as an individual, but like it or not, P&Y is our largest and strongest voice for ensuring the future of bowhunting. We are much stronger together than as individuals.
For what it's worth, P&Y isn't the only organization with tiered membership and voting restrictions. NRA only allows voting with a life membership or 5 years of continuous membership. Plus, who knows how many levels of membership they have based on funding support. B&C has an elite and tiered membership, etc.
Oryx,
Wasn't the NRA the one with the bloated salary and other problems?
Trial, the answer is nothing. You are focusing on the wrong things. General member, regular member, senior member, are all choices you make personally when you meet the criteria to advance. You certainly don’t have to. A general member can have just as much impact as any other level if they choose to outside of voting. Volunteer to help the club, talk to members about what you can do. They will find a way for you to help.
Certainly one can have an impact as an individual, but like it or not, P&Y is our largest and strongest voice for ensuring the future of bowhunting. We are much stronger together than as individuals.
For what it's worth, P&Y isn't the only organization with tiered membership and voting restrictions. NRA only allows voting with a life membership or 5 years of continuous membership. Plus, who knows how many levels of membership they have based on funding support. B&C has an elite and tiered membership, etc.
Indeed, but I suspect that has very little to do with membership structure and a lot to do with a couple of people at the very top.
Agree with what Ned Mobile above said. I’ve been an avid Bowhunter since 1977. Looked several times at joining P&Y. The membership levels and restrictions ain’t for me. For those who are members, hope it’s working for you.
Brotsky,
Would many want to be a member of an organization that wants to represent bow hunters without the ability to vote?
Conservation Fund projects.
Conservation Fund projects.
If interested go on the P&Y website and read about the founding of P&Y Club in 1961. It’s always been about “the future of bow hunting”. Membership then was not about numbers but about creating more opportunities for the future. Hard to imagine we’d be where we are today without the P&Y Club.
Over the years we’ve seen many threads about P&Y Membership. There are always some guys that have reasons to not join and then when those reasons get addressed find other reasons not to join. That’s just the way it works.
That said, there are always those that never post but read these threads and then join. Those are the folks I’m trying to reach.
Above are some of the Organizations the P&Y Club is supporting. It’s not about us it’s about the “next”....C
HfW, I find it odd that you start a thread asking (why) “Is Hunting Dying?”, then on this thread you essentially discredit the usefulness of an organization that definitely promotes hunting.
“Safety in Numbers“ can also be said “Power in Numbers”. You are letting other people protect your ability to hunt on the little oasis you have created. Yes, you allow others to hunt there, but what do they do for hunting other than buy a licence?
How do anti or any movements influence policy? By sheer numbers! Think about how a huge company like Delta Airlines just changed it’s policy overnight in regards to “trophy” carrying. How about hotel chains? How about grizzly hunting in BC? How do wolves pull down an animal many times their size. In simple terms, they band together!
So even if you never advance or do anything other than maintain a membership, you’re adding a number, another brick higher in the wall around hunting privileges. You don’t have to enter any of the animals you’ve killed.
The requirement to enter animals you’ve killed before being able to vote to affect policy is wise insurance against being hi jacked. Peta could muster enough “new voting members” to join overnight and literally swamp the P&Y club. In BC anti hunting org members went so far as to get hunting licences so they could enter the limited draws for grizzlies. Then they had pics of themselves all over social media holding up their draws that wouldn’t be used.
Just keeping your head down is no longer a tactic that works in out modern society. They’ll come and shoot you IN your little fox hole!
Habitat, Do you think the P&Y club is somehow bad for bowhunting?
New membership is great, however if you cant make them stay then they will nver engaged. You will always be in recruitment mode. member retention measures success, that’s most important metric to a organization accomplishing its goals. Dismissiveness is counterintuitive to that.
Ambush,
The thread you cited was started by an article.
Midwest, no, I don't think the Club is bad for hunting, just the opposite. And no, to Ambush, I am not keeping my head down. We all have limited funds and spend it, one hopes, based on a cost/benefit analysis. If one finds or believes they can make the largest impact by joining an organization, even if they cannot vote on the direction the organization will take, do it. Some people are members of our country and do not have the right to vote, so I guess it works, it's just not for me.
Lots of good with P&Y, B&C etc. For me, it should never be about the hunter, rather the animal. I had nothing to do with it, and so that is why I don't enter any. I have no problem with those that do.
Ambush, we all think differently. That is the purpose of discussions like this. To Charlie, I read and see if maybe there is new information that will change my mind. It does not. I am glad you are pursuing what you believe works for the betterment of hunting, all of us are doing the same in different ways. I guess I could ask if you guys think habitat management is bad for hunting. Hope that makes my point, limited funds...
I’ll pay for your introductory membership? Will you join then?
HfW, does the sound of that drum ever become monotonous?
"I guess I could ask if you guys think habitat management is bad for hunting."
No, and I don't see anyone here trying to dissuade others from doing the same.
" The requirement to enter animals you’ve killed before being able to vote to affect policy is wise insurance against being hi jacked."
This in itself is problematic. Many hunters will support and vote for bow and arrow hunting, but have never killed an animal " big enough" to be entered.
Midwest, point is I have only so much money to use what I think will help conservation with the biggest impact. BOHNTR, thank you for the kind offer. No I will not but you can send the donation to me and I promise to apply it for habitat work;-)
Ambush, really it never gets old. We used to preach that habitat loss was one of, if not the major hurdle to overcome. Now we have a person on another thread trying to tell us baiting does just as much good. I understand Brotsky's belief that P&Y, and other organizations are the best way to secure hunting for future generations, and believe he is sincere.
My passion for habitat is about securing as many species as possible for future generations. It is more than hunting to me. Will future generations leave some of the blame at our footsteps like they did with the carrier pigeon, only now it will be endangered species because we gave more consideration to book animals and the role we could play in an organization such as P&Y.
I am hearing some suggestions here that I hope the leadership listens to. Isn't that why Trump won and remains fairly popular? He pointed out the leadership of our country and the disconnect to what the people wanted.
Am I understanding that a certain voting level of membership is based on one's success having taken P&Y qualifying animals? And this is done to prevent the wrong types of folks flooding the membership and taking over? Is there any consideration to something such as a P&Y animal does not need to be taken, but can be replaced with a minimum number of animals harvested with archery tackle, i.e. 5-7 whitetails plus one turkey or other game animal or something to that affect? It would most likely accomplish the same without placing undue emphasis on trophy quality. Or, if it is about trophy quality, then I am more convinced I should not join. Thanks.
^^^One should always consider the greater good and decide if it’s worth getting “triggered” over.
MB, thanks. I was writing before yours posted, seems we think alike on this issue.
Ambush,
Talk of horn porn on the other thread and how that has created so many problems for other hunters. P&Y may actually be supporting this hurdle without intending to. Not triggered, just agree that taking measurements out of the equation would benefit what we profuse to love.
And talk about “limited funds” then post the pics you did above? I’m sure you could scrap together $40 a year even if you thought it was only doing a little good.
It’s not about funds.....especially when it would t have cost you anything to join. That should reveal perhaps a true motivation.
There is no motivation. Everyone has limited funds, everyone. Yes, those mounts were expensive and I would not do it again. I will post with a phone the last couple, Euros.
I went to some of the other organizations supported by P&Y on the list above. Fair Chase, nice name but everything legal is not ethical according to them. I remember a poster saying when P&Y's president would say he supported baiting, he would join. I don't support baiting. I don't support me entering my animals in P&Y, and I could come up with the $25 to do so.
If it is right for you, join...by all means get involved and participate. But, also be willing to hear what others think. That can only strengthen the organization IMO.
Just to be clear, with the new rules someone can become a voting member without entering a single animal in the books.
While I still feel that our clubs membership structure is archaic and a hindrance to long term growth, I applaud the board and membership for making some changes in the right direction. Anyone that is one the fence about joining, get off it. Send in dues and give it a chance. Its a cause worth your time and money.
If there's no motivation, why comment on this thread in a dissenting voice? Why not just ignore the topic and move along to the next thread?
Boreal,
Because if everyone did just that, organizations might not change. Most likely P&Y changed at least in part due to feedback received. And the change pointed out received a compliment. Thanks.
Regardless of what anyone’s opinion is of the membership structure, it is quite obvious the board is listening and making positive changes. Well worth the price of admission for a membership if you truely want a united voice in bowhunting. Quite honestly I can’t imagine why anyone serious about our sport isn’t a member. It’s a Club/Organization. If you’re waiting to join an organization that only agrees with the way you think, you’re gonna wait a long time to be involved in one.
The Syracuse Foundation for the Advancement of Wildlife Habitat and Conservation is one that agrees with everything I believe;-)
That is my way to sign out of this, using a little humor. Thank you to all of the members who dedicated themselves to a noble cause we all believe in, a sincere thanks!
Imagine how difficult it was to become a Senior / Regular member back in the 60's, 70's and 80'. Same rules with limited equipment, optics, clothing and opportunities. Those members ( "the grouchy old men" ) read the rules required to join and set goals to advance.
I remember when the lifetime membership was first offered to the associate member group. I read and understood this type of membership was not transferable and decided this membership option was not for me. When I joined, I made a commitment to be a life long member and set goals to meet the requirements to advance.
I hope when all these changes take place, there is enough of the history left that The Pope and Young Club is still recognizable.
Considering that there are 7.7million bowhunters in this country and less than 10 thousand P&Y members, I don't think anybody recognizes us now. That is about what? A 10th of one percent?
If we dont have an image problem among our peers then nobody does. If we want to be relevant in this debate with the main intent help grow and protect bowhunting then the status quo for our club isn't the way to go about it.
I've been a associate members long time. I didnt have a problem with the way the membership structure was originally set up. But also can understand with not being able to vote you my not want the become a member. At this point lowering the standard to 5 years, would free up a good member that other wise have been in limbo. P&Y is just making needed changes to keep the club strong. I'm sure other changes will be made as needed. Ed
I'm for quite a few years a "P&Y Peon". Like many democracies I'm given the opportunity to vote for office bearers that I think will represent my views either for change or for no change. If someone runs on a platform of reforming certain aspects, then there's your Peon's chance to be heard. It's not the perfect system, but not bad if you happen to be a Trump supporter last time around.
So, how would I join if I wanted to? Do I need a sponsor? Can i just go to the website and join?
OK, so I just joined. Here is why I joined. It had to do with the members here that I admire and like. And, the fact that the club has finally made a decision that made membership more valid. I totally understand ranks in club members. But the one thing that always bothered me was the way the upper hierarchy seemed to separate themselves from newer members. Seemed to me to be exactly as described here so, there is no need to repeat it.
Anyways, as a newly subscribed member, hoping this post doesn't get my application rejected, it seems the club is moving in the right direction. However, there is a long way to go to capture more potential members. So, why this seemed to be a positive step, getting rid of the hub bub will do nothing but help with that. I understand that steps were incorporated to keep anti's from over taking the club. But, its the snotty atmosphere the hierarchy structure creates that turns off those that should be members. It needs to keep moving in this direction if the club is to over come that. Just my .02 cents.
WV, how many snotty members have you been around? I have been a member for close to twenty years and haven't met one. As a matter of fact, my experience has been just the opposite. If you go to a convention, you find that everyone is approachable and willing to share information or just visit.
Thanks James.
I almost didn't post that because of reply's like yours Yttails. Read what I said and implied. the whole post. Members here, including upper tier guys, finally swayed me to do it. I explained that I thought.
It is as you and I BOTH said. However, the way the club is set up, even now, comes off as that. However, upon talking with members of all ranking, I decided that assumption was incorrect and, joined due to the club moving in the direction to offset that. So, my opinion is, if you want more like me, make it easier for newer members to contribute to the direction of the club. It isn't rocket science and, nothing I said has been meant as a cheep shot. Considering there are many long time members here that feel the same way, I hope feelings aren't misunderstood.
Welcome, Justin.....glad you joined!
I just submitted my annual application. If you turn me down you can keep the $40 as a donation.
Welcome Justin and Frank!
Right on, Frank! Welcome.
Thanks, but I am not accepted yet. I figure my posts may get me into trouble, but at least I contributed.
Ha....doesn’t work like that.....trust me!
Welcome Justin and frank- make plans for the Reno convention next year you won’t regret it!!!!
Thank you for joining gentlemen! You will find it’s not that bad and you may enjoy it :-)
Welcome gentlemen. You will soon find that many of those known and admired members contribute heavily to the quarterly magazine. It generally makes for a good read.
Justin and James,
Thank you!
Hope to meet you and spend some some time with each of you at a future convention.
Pope and Young is truly the cream of the crop for genuinely good people! Best of the best. Hands down.
"If you are not willing to wait 5 years and show some Club involvement as well as actual hunting experience, then why would you think you are qualified to make decisions that effects every bowhunter in North America?"
This is the type of elitist language that turns people away.
^^^ Would you trust someone to make decisions in your company if they have little or no experience, and then after hiring them they only show up for work occasionally?
"The requirement to enter animals you’ve killed before being able to vote to affect policy is wise insurance against being hi jacked. Peta could muster enough “new voting members” to join overnight and literally swamp the P&Y club."
This is a very good point. There is nothing wrong with having to put a little time/effort into an org before you can affect the org.
I joined about 12 years ago. Haven't regretted it at all. I have been kicking around the idea of submitting my regular membership application, this thread has spurred me to do just that.
I love bowhunting, The Pope and Young Club is a bunch of people that love bowhunting. Seemed like an easy decision for me. You don't have to agree with everything, everyone in the club thinks. The common ground is BOWhunting.
And if you join, go to a convention. They are great. I have managed to go to 4. I plan on being in Reno next year.
For those of you on this thread that joined, welcome.
Peco said: "If you are not willing to wait 5 years and show some Club involvement as well as actual hunting experience, then why would you think you are qualified to make decisions that effects every bowhunter in North America?" "This is the type of elitist language that turns people away."
I don't think this is "elitist" language at all. Like has been stated, it provides "safeguards" against quite a few things actually. Everything Jaq said and more. If you don't like the commitment it takes to be a Regular member, you can be an Associate member forever if you so wish. I've been an Associate Member for over 25 years. This thread has made me realize it may be time to "step up".
I’ve been a member of P&Y for 35 yrs....15 years as an Associate. Regular/Senior since 2000. If you are a serious bowhunter it is a great place to get to know like minded folks.
I have frequently not agreed with everything the club does, but they align closer with my thoughts and wishes all the time. Glad to be part of the best bowhunting club going.
I understand the protections set in place. I'll check into this club more.
You will never convince someone against their will. I believe it is my obligation to give back in some way. Aside from local, I belong to P&Y, RMEF and AES. We also donate to St. Judes. We are on a retirement income, but all these things were figured into our budget. You’ll find a way to do what you want with what you have.
Great post jstephens61. That approach will attract new members!
