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WY NR license legislation
And it begins... https://legiscan.com/WY/text/SF0094/2020
The commission shall reserve at least ninety percent (90%) of big game animal, bison and grizzly bear licenses to be issued in any one (1) year for resident hunters.
In any hunt area with less than ten (10) licenses available, the commission shall not issue any licenses to nonresident hunters pursuant to this subsection.
When the commission determines the number of licenses available for nonresident hunters under this subsection, the commission shall reserve at least thirty percent (30%) of those licenses for nonresident hunters who are hunting with a licensed outfitter.
It was just a matter of time......if passed, do you know when it would go into effect?
I knew I should have moved to Wyo when it first occurred to me........
Is this passed or proposed?
Am I being picky? I want it to say "fewer than 10%" not "less than". Any attorneys out there?
Actually, even as a resident, I'm opposed. See, like many residents, I can envision a day when I don't suffer high wind warnings daily just to buy an General Elk tag at the last minute for $60-some bucks. Now, I guess I'll have to live my retirement in WY.
Deertick, Does WY offer a lifetime license for residents? That might be one way to circumvent your concern.
Lifetime licenses are only available for fishing, small game, game bird, conservation stamp, and archery license. No big or trophy game.
What do we need to do and who do we need to talk to with regard to voicing our negative concern? I’ve got an antelope hunt and a deer hunt planned in Wyoming this year.
The ONLY positive for the NR as I see this is the outfitters association surely will not be in favor of this.
BOW, as a life member of your organization is there anything I can do as a member and where do you stand on this issue?
I believe this year is a budget year and takes 2/3 to pass so hopefully it's dead before it gets going. On another note, a 90/10 split results in a revenue increase for the dept because the reduced LQ Elk licenses are converted to special gen and allocated up to our 7,250 cap.
Ouch! And increasing the tag prices too?
WapitiBob please correct me if I'm wrong. Right now in WY the NRs get roughly 10% of tags. The most significant change is that now NRs will get 7% and outfitters will get 3%. This is somewhat similar to NM's NR and outfitter allotment.
Elk; 16% of LQ, 7,250 total full price
Not a good deal, basically taking 9% of all available elk tags out of the hands of the DIY hunter, even worse for other species. WY has already taken us out of the wilderness. That wasn't good enough, now they want to reduce our numbers even further with more outfitter welfare.
My read is the same as Brotsky's read. What a crock of shit. Outfitters already have an unacceptable and ridiculous scam going with the wilderness areas in WY. If the message the state wishes to send to NRs who are DIY is "Go fly a kite!", they're doing a dang nice job.
...and for the record, I love WY! Beautiful, varied, and spectacular in many, many ways.
Only a matter of time....
I also love WY, definitely my favorite state to bowhunt. This would hurt bad if passed. Be a lot of cow and doe/fawn tags in my future likely.
…..and a lot more participation in elk tag raffles.....
Shrewski, I have not heard anything about this from BOW. I am just a member now and not on the executive council, but as a member, I call BS on this bill.
If passed it will increase the number of gen elk tags available to NR's. Depending on how folks apply, your odds of a gen tag could increase.
mulecreek, where did you seen that part about gen elk licenses?
I don't even care about the increased tag fee. I'll pay to play, but I am considering giving up all of the traditional western big game and just chasing whitetails when the western trend is to shut NRs out. If tag numbers for NRs are cut in half, I am out in WY.
There is a 7,250 quota for all NR Full price LQ and Gen tags. Once they draw the NR Full price LQ tags they subtract that number from 7,250 and that is how many gen tags get issued to NR's. If you decrease the LQ tags, you automatically increase the gen tags.
Wish Colorado would do the same...
Can't imagine the point dump you would see if this had come up before the draw deadline! I'm sure that was calculated.
I'm glad I dumped my elk points last year. I had been collecting too long and I knew a change would eventually be coming. Not saying this will pass but change will come eventually that's going to hurt the top point holders the worst....guaranteed.
What I gather from the original link is this is a new proposed act, and if it passes it will be effective in 2022. Please correct me, If I'm wrong.
Speaking as a Wyo resident, there is a lot to dislike about this Bill. Increasing NR tag costs without a corresponding increase in resident fees is BS. The Outfitter set aside is completely unnecessary and more pandering to one industry. I also dislike decreasing the NR allocation for species that residents can buy a gen tag for at Walmart (deer and elk). I support changing the allocation for all other species but not those two.
This will increase NR point creep. I'll have 7 for WY antelope and muley's going into next year. I've been squawking for a long time about NR price creep in the western states. If the number of NR's is reduced, I'm thinking that will impact the small communities that depend on outside NR money that comes in each hunting season. Until folks and organizations band together to combat the NR price creep.....either don't complain or bend over. I'm hoping after a while folks will get tired of grabbing their ankles.
JL I promise you small communities are not being effected by price creep. For that to happen it would have to decrease the number of non residents showing up. There are more non residents than ever going hunting in western states. Price creep is not decreasing the number of people hunting in the west.
However something needs to be done to curb the number of out of state hunters. It has to either be less available tags or a high enough price point to stabilize the number of hunters.
If it was your home state's hunting being ruined by to many out of state hunters you would have a different perspective.
John, I can't speak for CO but I disagree when we're talking states that do not have unlimited OTC NR tags. In those places where the NR permits are fixed at "X" number of tags (a quota/draw), reducing the tags will reduce the hunters, not increase them. If Colorado is still doing unlimited OTC tags for some hunts, then ya.....I can see you're point WRT too many hunters. But even if you eliminated the unlimited OTC tags and went to a reduced quotas/draw to get rid of the NR hunters, the result is still the same.....less tags for NR hunters.
I never hunted Colorado so I can't say if the NR's (and/or maybe residents?) are ruining the hunting there. I suppose other folks who hunt there will have a better opinion on that.
JohnMC : in the Wyo area I elk hunt there were just under 2200 resident tags issued while non-residents drew just under 110. I'm not sure I understand how NR are causing the crowding. I'm not disagreeing with your feeling but the numbers don't line up at least where I hunt.
Sorry JohnMC I just realized you are in Colorado and not Wyoming.
^if John is in a CO area with unlimited OTC NR tags(??)....then I can see his point. Michigan has that problem statewide except it's too many resident (and NR's but to a lessor extent) pounding the woods all at once for the firearms opener. That is a DNR hunter management problem. They are addicted to the revenue ginned up from unlimited OTC tags. Like Michigan...if Colorado is doing unlimited OTC tags, then maybe they should stop the unlimited OTC tags and go to a split season draw to spread out the hunters.
JL you said "price" creep, and it is not reducing the number of people going elk hunting. Price creek has nothing to do in units with a fixed number of tags unless they are going unsold because people are not willing to pay the higher price and to this point higher priced tags have not decreased the number of out of state elk hunts any where that I know of.
Carefull...the oufitter mafia is strong in WY..... some version of this is going to pass.
John....correct....some folks continue to pay the high prices for the fixed number of tags vs trying to fix the situation. My point was reducing the cost of the tag. Whether the total number of NR tags goes up or down is irrelevant in that respect. Now for your concern of too many NR's messing things up....stop the unlimited OTC tags and go to a quota/draw that will control the number of hunters. Whether the tag is $200 or $2000....someone will pay that price up to a certain point. That is great for the state coffiers...not too great for many NR's who feel the creep.
Bob, changing from 16 to 10% for elk, how many LQ tags does that lose?
And this my friends is why we buy all of our supplies before we get to Wyoming! They apparently don’t need our dirty out of state money spent in their communities.
I guess it wouldn’t bother the residents much if we out of staters sold our places and moved there. I guess we could start buying property and telling the locals how to change their way of life to accommodate us, how to vote and drive the housing market so high the local kids will never be able to buy a house. Or maybe they can let us enjoy a piece of the paradise they live in for a week or two every three years and go home!
The tag prices don’t bother me but let us hunt! Ruining residents hunting? I’m no rocket scientist but I’m sure revenue from nonresident tag sales has contributed hugely to the healthy herds residents get to hunt.
shakey, Move on over. You are welcome to come join us in a great State that is very welcoming to new residents.
BTW, if you can't figure out how to hunt in Wyo at least every 3 years even at the proposed reduced NR allocation then you just don't want to.
Not saying i agree with the changes at all. However some perspective is in order. To say that WY isnt currently friendly to NR hunters is bull shit considering that they give put the highest NR % of tag allocations
30% of those General licenses going to outfitter hunts? Does the 70/30 split apply to Gen tags? Was wondering has anything like this been proposed in the past, and been shot down?
"Carefull...the oufitter mafia is strong in WY..."
Ding ding ding! Legalized criminals and the state continues to allow it. Completely ridiculous. I have no problems with the price increase, as I would happily pay that. But the outfitter welfare should not be allowed to continue in Wyoming or any other state. And the multiple forms it takes/would take in Wyoming is really sad.
I might have to move my retirement relocation schedule up a decade or so. 4 more years for my 401K like last year and I might have a shot.
Maybe I can become a resident guide!
This also rescinds section f which defines the special draw.
I just play the hand dealt me when it comes to my Non-ressy states I apply for hunts over the years of change.
If I don't like it I simply don't apply anymore, no biggie.
I'm just fixin' to do my Sheep, Buff and Moose appl. for Wyo and if it's all going to 10% in 2 years, I best be diligent in my unit of choice! That pretty much takes away most of any Random tag in the Sheep units.
Thanks for the heads-up W-bob,
Thanks WapitiBob. The NR elk tags go from 16% to 7% (DIY). The Special draw goes away and the general tags go up from $690 to $800.
It is sad to see that WY is continuing to subsidize the outfitters. With tags specially allocated to the outfitters then it is only natural that the outfitters will grow. When the outfitters grow too much both residents and non-residents will suffer. Outfitter welfare is the enemy of DIY hunters, residents and non-residents alike.
At face value, it makes sense to me to get rid of the special and just increase the price a bit. At least it would eliminate much of the indecisiveness around application time.
Saw this discussion on MM last week. "Buzz" says it likely won't pass this year, but maybe it's to lull us into complacency? The bill if passed would severely impact application strategy for NR, particularly for those who have been investing money for the past 1-20 years in applying for all species/points, including Moose & Sheep. Right now it costs a non-resident 800.00+ in NON REFUNDABLE fees annually, to apply for all big game species in Wyoming. And with that expenditure, you may not draw a single tag. With random tags gone for Sheep & Moose, unless a guy holds max points or one below max for a given species, it would quite frankly become a waste of money to continue.
It's amazing to me that anyone not within a point of max would even be putting in for moose or sheep tags.
I could care less about price increases and the overall decrease in NR tags. The major red flag in this entire thing is setting up licenses for outfitters only. Once those licenses are lost they are gone and will never be back in the pool for anyone except the outfitters. Eventually the outfitters will claim they do not have enough tags and as a result they will get another chunk.
I have seen it happen in other states. As a WY residents now I will fighting this bill hard based mainly on the outfitter well fare. It is wrong and only hurts hunting.
Buzz does not spread false info just to lull folks into complacency. He and JM77 have been working tirelessly on sportsman's issues for years. If you read his and other comments they are opposed to this bill but agree the 90/10 split will likely happen in the future.
happy to say i used my elk points last year not a blue chip unit but it took 12 points / many of us waiting years with max points to draw a blue chip unit with low tag quotas to have a quality diy hunt that will disappear with low tag quotas going away for N/R not to fair in my opinion !
Any Bill to reduce NR licenses needs to be revenue neutral to the dept at the minimum. It will also need to be favorable to WYOGA. Whether we like it or not, they're residents and currently almost half of the nr Elk licenses go to their clients. I suspect Sheep and Moose will move to 90/10 before E/D/A.
As a NR we have a hunting house in SD. They have just started the same in a small way, and will eventually get there
All good things must end!!
I started applying in the western states a few years back, wish I had started sooner. Maybe I'm too old school, but the $690 is plenty after you figure in additional costs and I think the special is ridiculous. This is also coming from someone unwilling to pay what an outfitted hunt costs, nor would I like to go on one of those.
We are turning more and more into Europe and it's scary. Money talks and sadly it wasn't that way for me in my prime youthful years of hunting. Everyone was in the same boat it seemed and now it's just like attending a major sporting event, those that can afford to go aren't your die hard fans or enthusiasts. I already know many responses that it's America and you have the ability to change your situation. I have a great job and so do many I know but it really can affect your family and it shouldn't be such an impact to enjoy Gods creation and especially on public land. I support the large organizations of my choice and give back as much as possible, but who is really winning with these funds? It will never be the same for my children already, but it's scary to see what it may be for all of our grandchildren.
I have been on outfitted hunts and they were wonderful. Good people making a tough living But there is room for everyone.
I may move to WY and buy an outfitting business. I don't know the details of it all but I lost my best contract within the last year and I can't see a better career opportunity out there.
Shrewski, You asked where BOW stands on this issue and as a member of executive council I can say there isn't any support for this bill in our discussions.
Will this pass? Asking for a friend.
I think this bill is just priming the pump...90/10 is coming to wy. Only a matter of time and details and palm greasing
I spend a ton of my time and money as a volunteer for the local RMEF chapter that myself and a few other guys started 4 years ago. So far we've raised well north of $100k. Very little of that money stays in Minnesota. The vast majority is sent to the western states that enjoy kicking me in the nuts constantly as a nonresident. At some point I'm going to say screw it. Instead of going to meetings I'll go ice fishing and instead of forking over hundreds of dollars a year to get our banquet going I'll spend a long weekend turkey hunting in a state that wants me there.
Spending money on rmef, if you don't live out west is a waste. Here in the the great lakes,between poaching, Indians, idiots who do not know the difference, between a deer and a elk, and of course our beloved wolves the whole idea is a joke
Trial- I am pretty sure this is definitely priming the pump for 90/10. I don't think E/D/A will go this year. But it is all about moving the needle. Sheep, moose bison this round. E/D/A 90/10 will be coming. I suspect the addition of 30% outfitter set aside is a bargaining chip. There will be "compromise" and outfitters will only get 25%. The opposition has to come out ahead every time one of these proposals are introduced. The proponents only have to win once.
I thought Wyoming's "hold our money period"(app to draw time), going from one month to 3 or 4, was enough shock to NRs for a while.
Oohhh, So now it's clear. That lame excuse of extending the "hold our money" period, to get better data and counts, was referencing votes for this bill to pass.
This Bill is probably doa with wyoga and wwf coming out against it.
WapitiBob: then who is pushing for the bill? Some resident that saw too many out of state trucks in "his" general tag area?
Thanks for staying on top of things and passing it along to us so we can jump to conclusions and bitch about it, Bob! lol
Yeah Bob! Lol That's a good question though...If WYOGA isn't the culprit who is? Do they want more than this? Or was this born in the legislature or? ... Talk to us Bob.
Jason Stafford's Link
Rob Shaul, founder of Mountain Pursuit, who has the ear of Senator Hicks, who repeatedly sponsors anti nr legislation.
I saw this posted elsewhere.........................
Lost Arra's Link
Here is the article I was sent this morning about the bill.
Thanks WapitiBob. I've read some of Shaul's op-ed stuff. His take on leftover tags is kind of silly. THEY ARE LEFTOVER TAGS THAT NOBODY APPLIED FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE.
And based on his bullet points in that letter, he doesn't worry much about using facts. Almost every one of his bullet points are absolutely incorrect claims about the way the draw works in other states. I especially want to get one of those "Nevada Moose Licenses" he refers to.
From Rowdy's link.....
"To be crystal clear the members of WYOGA at no time were ever consulted by Senator Hicks about this bill or the 30% outfitter set aside. I am sure Senator Hicks thought offering a license set aside for Outfitters would garner outfitter support. By cutting nonresident hunting licenses by half, then offering 30% of half as a carrot to get our support, Senator Hicks demonstrated how little regard he has for the huge contributions to Wyoming's economy made by nonresident sportsman. The members of WYOGA do not support any aspect of SF94 including the license set aside."
Funny, Sticksender. I’d like a shot at one of those Nevada moose tags, too. This guy sounds like a complete tool.
My understanding is the bill was supposed to be voted on today but was ignored completely. It was not even brought up. Many outfitters and hunters are opposing it.
Here are a couple of letters WOGA...
> > From: Laurie Marcovitz > Date: February 11, 2020 at 6:23:53 PM MST > To: Laurie Marcovitz > Subject: URGENT: SF0094 HUNTING LICENSES RESIDENT AND NON-RESIDENT; SENATOR HICKS BILL > > ? > > > > Dear Members:
> As expected, Senator Hicks filed his 90/10 license allocation bill yesterday. This bill eliminates 50% of all Nonresident Big Game hunting licenses! To view the bill in its entirety can be read here: SF0094 > > The WYOGA board cannot express to you how important it is to contact your local representative and also encourage your hunters to oppose this bill as well. Below are talking points that you can incorporate into your email: > > * This bill is a dire threat to your individual ability to stay in business. > > * This bill not only threatens your business and our industry but all of the other businesses that rely on what we do: Hotels, Motels, Restaurants, Gas Stations, Taxidermists, Meat processors, etc. > > * This bill takes away too much management authority from our Game and Fish Department. They are the professionals that need the flexibility to manage healthy and abundant Big Game populations. > > * Many of our Ranchers in Wyoming depend on hunting leases to help them maintain viability and keep the ranch in the family. > > * Many of our kids are having to leave Wyoming to make a living. Don't punish them further by not letting them come home to hunt. > > * In a time where other Wyoming industries are imperiled (e.g. Coal), why would we want to diminish a significant component of our Tourism industry? > > * Our industry was never consulted by Senator Hicks about the 30% set-aside in the bill. After eliminating 50% of licenses, it is WELL BELOW what we currently use for Non-resident licenses. Besides, Resident Wyoming hunters remain firmly opposed to Outfitter set-asides. The current system works!
> We urge you, your hunters, booking agents, and other business partners in joining us in this fight. This is by no means a fund-raising effort, but these efforts do require money. If you and your hunters are so inclined, you can make a donation to our cause by clicking on the following link: Make a donation to defeat SF0094. > > We greatly appreciate your efforts in assisting us killing this bill. > Best regards! > > Budd Betts, Committee Chairman > > Wyoming Outfitters & Guides Association > PO Box 2650 > Casper, WY 82602 > firstname.lastname@example.org > wyoga.org > 307.265.2376
There is also a letter from WOGA with the names and emails of Wyoming Reps to contact, but I can't figure out how to post it so it is legible. If you want it, PM me your email, and I will send it to you.
Take care. Mike
Always thought it was rigged that NR's had to hire a guide to access Wilderness Areas in WY.
^^^^ This proposed legislation has nothing to do with the wilderness policy. WGOA is 1000% in support of the wilderness policy, since it generates revenue for them. They are 1000% against this proposed legislation, since it will decrease revenue for them.
This just posted on the Wyoming Legislative website:
SF0094 Failed Introduction. 28 Nays, 1 Ayes, with the one Aye being Sen. Hicks. The vote was recorded 2/12/2020 @ 2:32 pm.
NR wouldn't have lost 50% of their licenses under this Bill, not even close.
"^^^^ This proposed legislation has nothing to do with the wilderness policy. WGOA is 1000% in support of the wilderness policy, since it generates revenue for them. They are 1000% against this proposed legislation, since it will decrease revenue for them."
Was there any effort to get rid of the wilderness policy?
“Was there any effort to get rid of the wilderness policy?”
No, and I feel pretty confident in saying there won’t be any changes anytime soon.
It's interesting that one of the bill sponsors voted against it. That's gotta be embarrassing.
I just read Idaho lowered NR tags numbers and raised fees on NRs again.
Well, it looks like this bill was supported by a constituency of one.
Just saw from Facebook that it's dead.