SCI commits funds to fight wolf issue
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
JSW 12-Feb-20
trakman 12-Feb-20
IdyllwildArcher 12-Feb-20
Jaquomo 12-Feb-20
Jaquomo 12-Feb-20
WapitiBob 12-Feb-20
standswittaknife 12-Feb-20
fishnride 12-Feb-20
NoWiser 12-Feb-20
Myke 12-Feb-20
elkstabber 12-Feb-20
Treeline 12-Feb-20
mountainman 12-Feb-20
Paul@thefort 12-Feb-20
JL 12-Feb-20
Myke 12-Feb-20
Drop Tine 12-Feb-20
Jaquomo 12-Feb-20
Jaquomo 12-Feb-20
Paul@thefort 12-Feb-20
Jaquomo 12-Feb-20
Paul@thefort 13-Feb-20
cnelk 13-Feb-20
Jaquomo 13-Feb-20
JSW 13-Feb-20
TD 13-Feb-20
Myke 13-Feb-20
JSW 13-Feb-20
cnelk 13-Feb-20
NoWiser 13-Feb-20
So467 13-Feb-20
TD 13-Feb-20
ground hunter 13-Feb-20
HH 13-Feb-20
NoWiser 13-Feb-20
JayZ 13-Feb-20
TD 13-Feb-20
Myke 13-Feb-20
JSW 13-Feb-20
Paul@thefort 13-Feb-20
TD 14-Feb-20
samman 14-Feb-20
HH 15-Feb-20
From: JSW
12-Feb-20

JSW's Link
I mentioned in a previous post that I represented P&Y at a "Rethink Wolves" meeting at SCI in Reno last week. Notice the name. It's positive and easy to support.

I'm proud to say the 4 P&Y members from Colorado stood in front of the entire SCI Board to request help. Disclaimer, these 4 P&Y members are also active in SCI but we take credit when we can get it. Their efforts raised $140,000 in about 10 minutes. That's a great start.

The effort will be led by Coloradoan's Protecting Wildlife (CPW), and a number of organizations will help them raise the $2 million they need to combat the millions coming in from out of state. Things are moving in the right direction. Keep an eye our for ways to help.

From: trakman
12-Feb-20
BC wants to reduce there wolfs but 80% that should tell Colorado something .

12-Feb-20
Educational commercials that combat disinformation would be a good use of those monies.

From: Jaquomo
12-Feb-20
Glad to see SCI is donating to CPW instead of Stop The Wolf.

From: Jaquomo
12-Feb-20

Jaquomo's Link
This "news" story claims STW has not raised any money for their PAC. We know that's not true, but still wondering what they're doing with the money they have raised.

From: WapitiBob
12-Feb-20
I believe the PAC is a different entity than the STW org.

12-Feb-20
thank you!!!

From: fishnride
12-Feb-20
Awesome. An actual step in the right direction.

From: NoWiser
12-Feb-20
It wasn't hard to predict that money donated to STW may as well have been tossed in a bonfire. This looks a little more legit and I wish them the best of luck. It's going to be an uphill battle for sure.

From: Myke
12-Feb-20

Myke's Link
When you do not allow state biologists to have a say in wolf introduction and population control, you get this --> see the link.

One could argue that the numbers are based on conjecture, etc. But others argue that the Wisconsin wolf population numbers are conservative in their figures. I think the max population was about 250, but it was sort of a moving target when the idea of re-introduction was advanced. It is now about 900 in Wisconsin; clearly more than original estimates. And not driven through local control for many years.

From: elkstabber
12-Feb-20
I'm glad to hear of SCI's involvement. Also glad to hear of a group called, "Coloradoan's Protecting Wildlife". Am I the only one who thinks it is funny that their acronym (CPW) also stands for the Colorado Parks and Wildlife?

From: Treeline
12-Feb-20
Thank you for the update Jim! Good news!

From: mountainman
12-Feb-20
SCI is a great org.

People may not agree with all their stances. But they are almost ALWAYS on the front lines when some group is using legislation to stop/impede hunting. And they are good at what they do. I am glad they decided to get involved with the wolf issue. I wasn't sure they would because its not a DIRECT attack on hunting(although unmanaged wolfs are indirectly very bad for hunting).

If you love bowhunting, be a member of P&Y. If you love HUNTING, be a member of SCI.

I am a member of, and donate to, both orgs.

From: Paul@thefort
12-Feb-20
Yes, it is good news that there two groups (STW and CPW) providing the voting citizens information concerning the Colorado Wolf issue and their OPPOSITION to it.

My question is, how does CPW plan on getting this info out to the voting citizens? Does anyone know? Paul , Larimer County STW coordinator.

From: JL
12-Feb-20
Side observation related to the wolf thingy. Last week when Sen Romney made his vote against the Repub Party and Trump, he took alot of heat for it. I was reading the Salt Lake City newspaper (the Tribune??) to see what the local folks are saying. In the one article about it, I was looking at the comments section to see what was being said. One commenter was very pro-Romney and anti-Trump. At the end of his comment he added a statement about supporting the reintro of wolves. I believe he was referring to reintroducing them to Utah. He used some emotional, pro-wolf adjectives to try and sway whoever read his comment. I thought it was interesting the pro-wolf reintro push was in Utah too.

From: Myke
12-Feb-20
JL - I bow hunted the north side of the High Uintahs 2 years ago. Horse packers came out claiming to have sited wolves. Not really a stretch, since NW Colorado has seen a few around. It would seem to me, they are already there. DOW officials do not want to confirm, but it looks like their hands are tied and are getting forced. They don't want any part of it.

From: Drop Tine
12-Feb-20
Unfortunately SCI can never match the funds of orgs like PETA and HSUS. That’s exactly how they win also. They drain you with one legal battle after another till you have nothing left.

From: Jaquomo
12-Feb-20
Paul, any info about how STW plans to get info out to voting citizens?

From: Jaquomo
12-Feb-20

Jaquomo's Link
Ok, I'm confused. I just read an article quoting members of the Coloradoans Protecting Wildlife coalition, iincluding leaders of Woolgrowers Assn, Colorado Cattlemens Assn, Farm Bureau. Aren't these same groups part of STW? Paul, can you clarify?

From: Paul@thefort
12-Feb-20
Exactally they are the same groups supporting the Stopthewolf coalition. Ie, Rock mt Farm union, Colorado Wool Growers, Cattlemen's assoc. Farm Bureau, Co Independent Cattle Growers, SW, Co Livestock assoc. Nothing to be confused about. They both have a hand in this issue and seem to be going about it in different way to communicate with the public when that time comes in the very near future.

From: Jaquomo
12-Feb-20
That's bizarre. Why two organizations of the same groups, both soliciting donations from the same people? Did CPW form up because of some dissatisfaction with STW? We haven't contributed to CPW yet, but wonder of they are better at communicating with their supporters than STW.

From: Paul@thefort
13-Feb-20
Conspiracy theories!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: cnelk
13-Feb-20
Typical. Diluted support groups focusing on the same thing.

From: Jaquomo
13-Feb-20
Paul, I don't know what it is, or why we have two groups comprised of seemingly the exact same organizations asking for our money. Since STW won't communicate with us, maybe you can explain?

From: JSW
13-Feb-20
All, The reason for the meeting in Reno was to come up with a unified plan to combat the problem. Many Colorado residents, CPW, Farm Bureau, STW, P&Y, SCI, and others were there. I was late to the meeting so, sadly, I missed the early part of the conversations.

Denny with STW did not speak at all while I was there. Representatives of each individual group being represented was asked to work with the group to plan a strategy. Denny walked out and didn't participate. I think Denny was feeling pushed out by the rest of the group. Later, I asked one of the SCI VP's to reach out to Denny and ask why he didn't participate. The answer he gave was "you didn't want me there". This is second hand so take it for what that's worth.

The bottom line is, everyone in the Conservation realm, by that I mean outside of the ranching industry, has been against the name "Stop the Wolf" Marketing and perception is everything when it comes to politics and that name will not gain support. Everyone except for STW understands that you can't win over votes with a negative campaign.

Think about it. If you don't understand the issue, will you listen to or read material that is titled "Stop the Wolf" or are you more likely to pay attention to a message titled "Rethink the Wolf"? We have to learn how to play the game.

Everyone in the group wanted input and participation from STW. Hopefully with SCI reaching out afterwards, they will be a part of the unified effort.

All of these groups will pull together and launch a media campaign that tells the truth about game management. I have confidence in that.

From: TD
13-Feb-20
Well.... the real question is what kind of beer are they serving at the meetings....... and has the new spring fashion Orvis catalog come out yet???

I like the tack they are taking with the anti-ballot initiative language. Kinda disarms the groups pushing for it at the roots and makes them defend that.... and takes away the emotional hugging cute puppies thang. Going to have to take some time and check out these groups.... the link wasn't working for me in the article Lou linked.

Yes... would like some more info please.

From: Myke
13-Feb-20
Q - Are the same people who are driving this reintroduction of the wolf into Colorado initiative the same who have blocked State of Wisconsin DNR from conducting wolf hunts and have blown through the initial Wisconsin wolf reintroduction agreements via the federal courts? Most likely, they are following the same playbook.

Colorado needs to shine the light on the Wisconsin experience. People can see the dishonesty present here. Initial agreements have been cast aside via back door federal court methods. One federal judge can set aside any agreement, and they have over and over. The state biologists are not in the decision making game, which is flat out wrong. We have over 3x the wolf population now than what was agreed upon. It is not how good conservation is suppose to work. Colorado does not want to end up like Wisconsin.

From: JSW
13-Feb-20
Everyone needs to understand that it's not about the wolves. It never has been. It's about controlling human activity. And while hunters are a target, we are a minor part.

The left can not thrive unless they have complete control of every aspect of human life. They must end hunting because that means independence and freedom and of course a means to fight back. They must move everyone out of rural communities because, once again that is independent living, or freedom. The wolf is a means to an end. We are in the battle of our lives and if we just sit around and don't take action, we will be overtaken.

In order for socialism to take hold, every human must be forced to think like every other human. It's an impossibility, which is why it always fails but they still think if we only came around to their way of thinking, life would be perfect.

Didn't you see the tape of the Bernie campaign guy extolling the virtues of Gulags and re-education camps? This is the left today and sadly there are leftist hunters who will support them.

Why do you think they need to control healthcare? Control energy, how much we are allowed to use and what we pay for it. Notice that no Democrat running for president will ever say they want to improve America. They want to "fundamentally change" America. Wake up America!

From: cnelk
13-Feb-20
And it starts in the public schools = Libtard Indoctrination Centers.

From: NoWiser
13-Feb-20
This was a productive thread until the last 2 posts. I was even considering donating to the cause. But if the leaders of this coalition are this far off their rockers, I think I’ll hold on to my money. I still wish everyone the best in their efforts to stop the reintroduction. You’ll need some level heads if you want to have a chance, though.

From: So467
13-Feb-20
Glad to see SCI helping financially to fight this. It was mentioned above that Sci can never match the funds of PETA etc. folks there are about 60k members of Sci. How many hunters are in the USA? Imagine what our war chest could be if we had 1/3 of the hunters in the ranks of Sci. Like them or not Sci fights for your rights to hunt.

From: TD
13-Feb-20
Yes.... MN is the center of level headed politics..... good grief....

13-Feb-20
Myke.......closer to 2000. I am on the Wis UP border... 900 comes from the Wolf Patrol counts......respectfully

From: HH
13-Feb-20
SCI can do some but not much. Big industry needs to get in with large Cap donations!

Like the Wolfers have. Heck, Wolfers get GVT $

Need every Hunting, Archery, Boating, Fishing production and Industry involved and we would still be 5 Billion short.

This is way bigger that Winchester or Federal or Speer. All owned by G Soros! So you can forget them too.

Think about going to the moon. Now think about man on Mars. This is how far we are behind on the Climate/Environment Changer Armies.

K~

From: NoWiser
13-Feb-20
Far from it, TD, and I never said it was. But, do you really think anyone is going to take this seriously when they see the leaders of a conservation organization spouting off about the wolves actually being a stepping stone to the socialist takeover of this country? Not a chance. They'll tell you to get back on your meds (and I'd agree with them) and then they'll go vote pro-wolf. Calm, cool, collected heads moving forward is the only chance for success. That's the opposite of what I read above. If this turns into a partisan battle, you will lose it 100% of the time. This is Colorado we're talking about.

From: JayZ
13-Feb-20
I don't think Jim is saying they are turning this into a partisan battle. In fact, I think their approach is quite the opposite. They picked a name for their campaign that won't just resonate with die-hard republicans.

From: TD
13-Feb-20
I think they were just pretty much (and accurately) identifying the enemy rather than developing a PR campaign. Blowing off the frustration of even having to deal with such people forcing their agenda on them. WRT an actual plan to win, the focus of attention on emotionally driven ballot initiative attempting overriding the science and the professionals in the field is pretty spot on.

Hopefully the other side will focus on writing more songs for trees being murdered in Seattle......

From: Myke
13-Feb-20
Ground Hunter - I know that those numbers are on the conservative side - and it still looks bad. That is the point. No matter which way you look at, it is a failure in how to reintroduce wolves. If the guys who are fighting want an example to hold up of a program that was a lie from the beginning, has been full of crap science and emotion without regard to a balance in an ecosystem, and minimizes input of a states biologist system, look to Wisconsin first.

From: JSW
13-Feb-20
NoWiser, I am not part of the coalition called Rethink the Wolf. I was invited to provide input and be a witness. I did that and have reported what I witnessed.

Go ahead and attack those of us trying to save our hunting heritage. Some of us have spent considerable time researching these topics and are comfortable in our positions. All you have to do is look at where the money comes from.

Just an FYI, in 11 days, I will no longer be the head of any conservation organization so be prepared to hear what I really think. We are approaching the fight of our lives and the wolf issue is a drop in the bucket.

From: Paul@thefort
13-Feb-20
MY MESSAGE----To tell the truth, this issue is not about being against having the wolf in Colorado because the wolf is already here, but it is all about being against the FORCED REINTRODUCTION of large numbers of the Canadian Gray Wolf into Colorado over time and circumventing (ballot initiative) the state’s wildlife biologists and the Colorado Wildlife Commission’s decision to oppose the forced reintroduction. There is a huge difference between Want & Need & those who WANT to FORCE greater numbers of the gray wolf into Colorado will do anything they can to get them here in greater numbers than if they just migrate in, as the wolf has been & is doing currently. There is already the documented presence of wolves in Colorado which have migrated in, as documented by the Colorado Parks and Wildlife and viewed by the general public.

Those (Rocky Mtn. Wolf Project, Rocky Mtn. Wolf Fund, Sierra Club, Defenders of Wildlife, etc.) who WANT to Force the reintroduction of the Gray Wolf into Colorado found a “loop hole” because Colorado is a ballot initiative state & wildlife issues can be tested before the general public, & many times against the recommendations of the Colorado Wildlife Commission as in this case. Those forcing the issue have already spent nearly 1.3 million dollars to get Ballot Initiative 107 to the voting public in November of 2020. It has been reported that 99% of those monies came from out of state sources. And according to a recent Sierra Club report, they are willing to spend 4 million more dollars to get it passed. Ballot Initiative 107, many believe, is full of FALSE narratives as follows: 1. Wolves will only be introduced on Public land or designated private lands. 2, Wolves will only be introduced WEST of the Continental Divide. 3. Once established, the Gray Wolf will bring back the critical balance of Nature to Colorado. 4. Wolves were eliminated in Colorado over 80 years ago; & while that is true, only 1.2 million persons resided in Colorado at that time; currently Colorado is pushing 6 MIL residents statewide. Colorado has twice the population of Idaho, Montana & Wyoming combined where good populations of delisted wolves reside today. Some may use the Yellowstone National Parks as a great comparison to why Colorado needs wolves but YSNP has 2.2 million contiguous acres and NO hunting seasons to control big game species. Some have suggested that wolves need to be introduced into the Rocky Mtn. Nat Park and other areas to control the elk herds. The former Superintendent of the Park, Vaughn Baker, wrote an article for the Denver Post, 2009, titled, “Wolf reintroduction: It won’t work here like in Yellowstone.” and gave many reasons why not. The reasons given can be used statewide as reasons for the OPPOSITION to the forced introduction. The USFW Service did not include Colorado as part of the Greater Rockies Wolf Recovery Project.Thirteen years ago, the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission approved a plan entitled, "Findings & Recommendations for Managing Wolves which Migrate into Colorado," which was in response to the reintroduction of the gray wolf by the USFWS into the Yellowstone National Park area. That same year a migrating wolf from Wyoming was found dead on Colorado's West I-70, & others have recently been observed in Colorado since then. The above report/findings (CPW Resolution 16-01) was developed by a group with various interests/backgrounds in Colorado, ie., Colorado Wolf Management Working Group, made up of environmentalists, sportsmen, local government, wildlife biologists & livestock producers. The results were comprehensive & not against the wolf being in Colorado at all. This group developed a Colorado Wolf Management framework as follows:

1. Accepting a (migrating) wolf presence in Colorado with conditions. 2. Urging that wolves migrating into Colorado be allowed to live with "no boundaries" where they find habitat 3. Advocating that wolves be left wherever found, providing they are not causing problems 4. Taking measures to avoid conflicts through non-lethal methods if possible & if wolves cause problems, manage them to resolve the problem 5. Recommending that funding for wolf management come from sources other than hunting license sales, & then the Resolution concluded that: "any introduction or reintroduction of the wolves into Colorado is a potential conflict with the State's livestock industry and current big game management efforts."

The current Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission, appointed by the Governor, and then approved by the State Legislature resolved the following: "That the (current year 2016) Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission affirms its support of the Wolf Working Group's recommendations adopted by the Wildlife Commission in May 2005, OPPOSING the intentional release of any wolves into Colorado......" (Adopted, January 13, 2016)

Most Colorado citizens believe in the legitimacy of the Colorado Wildlife Commission & the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Director and staff to scientifically manage Colorado's big game populations. We should follow their lead and recommendations concerning this FORCED wolf introduction issue. If you understand & believe in the science of Colorado’s big game wildlife management and the North American Wildlife Conservation Model, you will support the Commission’s recommendations.

Currently, there are 30 Colorado Counties which have signed a County Resolution opposing the forced reintroduction of the gray wolf into Colorado. (Nine are Front Range Counties) These counties have studied & examined the effects that forced introduction of the gray wolf may have on its communities, its citizens, its economy, its health, its safety, its wildlife and its livestock, both commercial & domestic. No doubt, the subject of the wolf can be a very emotional subject & the voting public needs to EXAMINE the facts of this Colorado issue before voting concerning the Forced Introduction of the gray wolf to Colorado. I would recommend visiting the Colorado Parks and Wildlife website & also visit the Stopthewolf.org website & see for yourself that there is more to this FORCED Wolf issue than one can imagine. Paul Navarre, Fort Collins CO

From: TD
14-Feb-20
Thanks Paul!

TTT

From: samman
14-Feb-20

samman's Link
Article on the DNA results of scat collected. In there is the requirement the voted law would implement. "State wildlife officials also would be required to set up a fund to compensate livestock owners for any losses."

Since CPW doesn't get state tax money, who do you think is going to bank this "fund" for livestock compensation? Certainly not those who vote for reintroduction.

From: HH
15-Feb-20
You who buy “

Let wolves eat elk, your elk tags”

Good letter Paul.

Like to see some “Keep Canada DNA Wolf blood out CO” Bumperstickers!

This would tell these super Wolfers that you all know the deal and you guys are Wike to their lie!

K~

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