Contributors to this thread:
Late breeding/fawn survival...
I'm hearing of many instances where people are seeing bucks breeding & chasing, from Oklahoma to Northern tier states. One guy actually showed a video from his surveillance camera in his yard where a buck bred a doe several times and then while mounting the doe a second time, his left side antler fell off. He continued to breed the doe and the right side fell off in the snow just out of camera range. Crazy video.
So, if a doe is bred primarily in November for A LOT of Midwest states and they are birthed in and around May/June... wouldn't it seem taxing for a fawn that was conceived in say, January? The temps in a lot of states are approaching 95-100 degrees by then. Just seems I'm hearing a lot of later than usual breeding and wonder what everyone's thoughts might be...
Near the Canadian border in MN we occasionally killed a spotted fawn in Nov. Pretty rare but it happens. I think the odds of them surviving are about zero. It would take an exceptionally mild winter.
I think the problem with a late conception fawns surviving is predators. In the normal cycle there are a lot of fawns and some make it. When you are the only little guy/gal it seems target would be your nickname.
I saw a VERY SMALL whitetail in december. Didn't have spots but couldn't have been 25 pounds
Feb would be an August fawn, so about 3 months old in Nov. They may do ok depending on how cold it gets and snow depth. Mid November breeding results in first week of June fawns roughly. Shawn
I've always been told its a nightmare for the doe's that don't get bred during the rut in November because instead of having a 1to1 or a 1to2 doe to buck ratio now you have a 1to50 ratio of interested bucks to hot does. Sausage fest!
Very interesting you post this as I sat through a seminar over the weekend and this was mentioned. The biologist said survival rate is near zero for these late born fawns.
Don't think late fawns are as uncommon as some think, even in northern states... Attached is one behind my house late February one year... Spots are faded, but they are there...
Here's March pic I saved from Michigan, I think I saved it from this site...
November dry doe = fawn didn’t live
I would like to know who that biologist was cause it's bunk. Do some research on line. In some areas of the country they may have a rough time but others they do quite well!!
Shawn - I agree.... I think in the northern states it depends upon the severity of the winter... I know that little guy in photo behind my house made it until spring green-up...
For those of you that don't have to deal with cold temps and snow up to your you know what and wolves winter feed is a very good way to increase fawn survival. Most years I see two seizes of fawns and I would assume that the bigger ones were born late May and the smaller ones born late June. By feeding I can keep an eye on them and see how they are doing. I don't feed them a lot , just enough to supplement the diet. The wolves don't like to come to close but I still go out and see if there are any wolf tracks around.
The date was correct. Was quite small still til fall rolled around. Dont know how it made out
As far as 2 different size fawns, it's usually boy vs girl. Buck fawns get to be visibly bigger than the does. Here in MT the Wts are pretty small and the buck fawns by December are nearly the size of the yearling does from the year prior.
Larry Weishun wrote a great article on this several years ago
In mid September of this year I shot a decent size doe in Maryland. I got quite the surprise when I pulled a full size fawn out of her! The taxidermist said it was about to drop, something about how hard the hoof tips were. I assume she was bred in March!
Last summer here at my home place I had a yearling doe with a little fawn. I saw them several times behind the house until in September but I cannot remember seeing either one during hunting season. I expect the doe was a fawn herself when she was bred. From what I read, a doe is bred by weight, not particularly age.
drycreek I think there is a time-selective factor in weight-selective breeding. You can see the same dynamic (albeit in reverse) at the bars around 2 AM