Will Bowtech recover?
Equipment
Mathews wins the patent infringement suit against Bowtech. Can they recover?
Hard not to laugh at them with a slogan like "Refuse to Follow" after they get slammed for ripping off a competitors designs. Ouch.
Not sure what it has done to them corporately, but will the average consumer care?...highly doubt it. They just want a good bow.
They already settled, consumer won’t see any difference.
I would say APauls is spot on. Most consumers won’t ever even know. Unless there is a financial penalty they can’t recover from I see it being a moot point. Hell I consider myself up on most archery happenings and I don’t even know what it’s about, so it obviously would not effect my decision.
—Jim
^^^^This^^^^^
What exactly did Bowtech supposedly copy too close?
Multiple claims, but I believe the basis deals with the yoke ends moving when drawing the bow which infringes on the AVS patent claims.
These things happen all the time with companies. This was filed like 6 years ago. People infringing on patents and holders having to defend patents. I think a lot of archery companies copy each other quite often
I believe these suits were filed in 2017 and 2018, the 6 year old suit was tossed out and dealt with the flex riser or whatever they called it and a guy from down south somewhere.
The court posting today was the culmination of talks and the resulting settlement between the two parties; admission of infringement, terms for back royalties if any, and royalties going forward if there was any licensing agreement.
What Apauls said. I’ve been shooting BowTech since around 2003-2004. I shoot them because for me, I haven’t found anything better. As far as them “infringing” on Mathews? I couldn’t care less.
I ordered one last week. I hope I receive it still. Maybe it will say 'Matthews' on it?
;-)
Waiting for Elkman. Maybe he is shooting for Matthews now?
^^^^Habitat, that’s too funny! Good one!!
Ya I'm sure he's renegotiating his contract renewel for "Pro Staff Member" with them right about now ;)
Maybe BT should adopt the motto,”Catch us if you can!” 8^D
I shoot BT by th way!
Chad, I can understand your frustration. But you honestly think that when you get a patent no one is going to try and use your design?
I have dealt with business my entire career. I don’t know if any businessmen or attorneys that won’t tell you a patent is only as good as you are willing to defend it.
It is a common practice. Mainly due to companies tweaking a design to get around a patent. Sometimes it works...and sometimes it doesn’t.
And congrats on earning your patents. Obviously you are gifted to achieve them!
Unfortunately...you are correct! Don’t let it get to and keep working hard!!!
I know many don't care and yes the consumer won't Care,. But I bet B -T will care in the form of $$$. I'm sure the law suit was not only about having them stop using it. If it was just a settlement, I'm sure we'll never know the outcome..
Jingalls, reading your post I couldn't help but wonder if substituting your wife for the patent would change your perspective?
Can't blame them for trying.
And if it was just the tip, it might not even be cheating.
Difference is that it became illegal to own a person decades ago...
Matt, typical response from the BS crowd! If you read my post, “NO” where do I say I agree with it nor support it!
It is a fact of being in business! If you have a patent you will need to have the mindset that you will need to defend it to protect what you have created.
Bowtech is nowhere close to going broke. They admitted the infringement and agreed to license the technology. This stuff happens in archery all the time, difference here is that most just license because it’s cheaper than calling in the lawyers. There is nothing on a compound bow that isn't patented or wasn't patented at some point.
I'll buy Bowtech any day over the others regardless
"Catch Us If You Can".
"But pay us if WE CATCH YOU!"
Inventions with a patent is one thing. Improving the wheel is not.
Any Bowtech shooters banging on Mathews bows will now have to go to time-out.
Mathews should pay Bowtech for improving the design...
This kind of stuff happens all the time in technology. My career was in big tech and suits were ongoing continuously. Suing over cable routing? Really? Lawyers for both sides will make more money and we, the shooters, will pay the bills. Even if Mathews wins a big $ settlement, you don't suppose they'll pass that on to consumers by lowering prices, right?
Every bow maker since the very first one has borrowed design ideas from others. Allen was suing Jennings when he died. Larson archery previously sued Mathews and Bowtech. Mathews sued PSE. Bowtech was sued by Claude Hadley. Garmin was sued by WAP for patent infringement on their compensating sight. Every little engineering change is patented, and by the time the suit is settled the defendant has moved on to a slightly different design.
Much ado about nothing...
Pretty sad how people in such a small community industry like archery treat each other and disrespect each other’s work. The whole thing is silly.
Like it or not, one of the nuances of capitalsim in the race to "build a better mouse trap".
If anyone thinks human nature will always sit idle and not take advantage or credit for others accomplishments is fooling themselves...
Thank goodness there weren't patent lawyers around back in 1000 B.C. when the first composite recurves were invented....
Ya the Turks bowyer showed the Mongols a thing or two on the field of battle.
How 'bout the English and their longbows kicking the Frenchie's crossgun-toting asses at Agincourt? 600 years later and the X-bow guys still haven't gotten the memo.
But a crossbow bolt killed Richard on his way back to England...
Bowtech will recover WAY before Bowjangles.
Lol...This is cute! Some great reply’s though...
I knew was something wrong about my bowtech, there was some mathews parts on it
De Ja Vu- Patents fights between Bear Archery & Jennings Archery circa 1970’s.
I didn't know Bowtech was trying to make a slow bow.....
Haha trophyhill!!! I was in the market for a new bow last year. Had previously shot hoyt but it came down bowtech or Mathews and went with bowtech- both were smooth and dead in hand but those were only similarities I noticed. Very happy with my bowtech and hope they keep on trucking!
Everyone just buy a Hoyt n all problems solved!
The archery industry is one of the most litigious...that's an unfortunate fact.
There is a lot to this case that people don't know, not just pertaining to reading and understanding each claim and the designs on both sides which are in question. Think prior art... and an examiner that had their head up their ass. Some patents should have never been granted.
Anyways, Mathews, the marketing machine, presented this news release in a way to make them look good of course! And people eat it up.
Patent infringement has been going on forever. Little remembered fact - prior to World War 1 the US was paying Mauser of Germany because the Springfield '03 rifle was deemed to be a close copy of the Mauser 98. Plus ca change...
"Patent infringement has been going on forever."
So has robbery, but that doesn't make it right.
Matt
"Everyone just buy a Hoyt n all problems solved!"
I would, maybe, if I were looking for a new bow. However, word on the street is that Hoyt is still using ancient technology and they are light years behind the other bow companies. Plus they are heavy and overpriced.
I am pretty biased. Shooting Hoyt for 16 years. Shoots awesome .
Shoots awesome and costs 1600 bucks for about 150 in material. Sorry talked to a Hoyt rep yesterday and he even said, no reason they could not sell them for 12 hinge and still do well. Shawn
But if people actually stayed on the topic of the thread, they would only be 3 or 4 posts long, 5 tops.
What's the fun in that...?
$150 in material Shawn?
You have no idea what you're talking about.
They're all the same. Some are just uglier than others.
It is too bad that patent infringement occurs and competing companies cut corners instead of properly using licensing agreements. I'd like to think that sharing ideas will speed up the refinement process of certain technologies, so the consumer would eventually have the best possible product available - this won't happen rapidly if companies continue to act poorly. I turn 50 in October and I am still waiting for a 37" ATA compound with a 7+ inch brace height that shoots a 500 grain arrow at 300 fps with a 27.5 inch draw length - and is whisper quiet. Archery companies please unite!
"But if people actually stayed on the topic of the thread, they would only be 3 or 4 posts long, 5 tops."
^X2....there would be alot of short threads to weed thru.....or skip.
"$150 in material Shawn?
You have no idea what you're talking about. "
Yes. It was a ludicrous statement. I know for a fact that an archery manufacturer that did everything in house, machining, strings, film dip, etc. had $400 invested in every bow.
Oneida eagle has been ahead of this from the beginning, ain’t no one gonna copy that thing
Bowfreak,
What did he pay for insurance, legal, marketing etc?
I have no idea but nobody is building a for for $150.
COG's around $400 is the case for many smaller mfgs. Likely lower for the big 4 for most models - with the exception of some carbon models probably.
Maybe $150 in raw material.
Who knows, but the $1,200 I'm gonna plunk down later this afternoon for one certainly isn't going to hurt them.... ;-)
This lawsuit was a compromise by both parties. No real winner or losers. Also, the current "deadlock" technology from Bowtech was not part of this. Bowtech has already moved forward on this. It will not affect day to day operations or warranty issues.
"Mathews wins the patent infringement suit against Bowtech. Can they recover?" I hope so cause they are the only bow I could tune without moving my rest way out of center!
As the industry changes, this is how they and others may survive.
The "article" you referenced is a cut and paste sales pitch for industry market reports.
The message is there, that is all.
KHNC,
While this is nothing out of the ordinary or crippling, Bowtech will be paying money to Mathews that they didn't in the past. They lost. If it didn't matter they would have been paying from the get go.
