Contributors to this thread:
The reality's of ebikes
Since the other thread is not supposed to have turned into a ebike yes or no thread, I wanted to give a personal review of the pros and cons of ebikes.
"However, now you can climb on an electric hunting bike that can move at twenty or thirty miles an hour without pedalling. You can cover that five miles in fifteen minutes as opposed to hours while still carrying all of your gear." Quoted directly from the beginning of the book..."
I have EXPERIENCE on an ebike. Fact is, the only place you can go 20-30 miles per hour is on a graded road, while being passed by hunters in trucks. They are extremely hard to ride on a single track with gear. I have tried. Best use for these is on two-track fs or logging roads where you want to be silent. Bugling into Canyons hoping to get a reply so you can ditch the bike and head after them. A single track would have to be damn near flat without root balls/rocks/erosion, and all the other things that would make this hard. It may gain you a few miles in some areas, but that's it (if the single track is winding along the bottom of a canyon). By the time you load it and yourself up, ride at 5-10 mph, and find a place to ditch it, you haven't gained much on the guy walking in. They also do not have the torque like a motorcycle. I grew up riding motos and prudent use of the throttle could get you through a lot of places. But in steep places they don't have that pop that a throttle does. I had a very hard time, and ended up turning around on a 300 vertical foot climb (over a half mile or so) that was probably about a 15-30 degree hill.
BUT on logging roads and two tracks, being silent is a big plus, and this is where they shine, and what I bought mine for. I hunted an area that is known to be devoid of elk because of a persistent wolf problem. The area has plenty of logging roads,u would need to put miles and miles on to find elk. Elk know the sound of an engine. This is where they have an advantage.
"To put it simply, an eBike can be your unfair advantage when you’re hunting. The advantage now isn’t with the person who is the fittest, but with the person who can cover the most ground." This is out of the book, that the guy wrote who is selling e-bikes for hunting. Not just some bullshit I made up because I am "uneducated and never rode one."
From a guy that is selling ebikes. Fact is, this is bullshit. Go try it for yourself, you can rent them at many bike shops now. Then let me know.
Interesting. You make it sound like they’re not much advantage. I’ve never ridden one, so I have no basis for comparison. I guess my question would be, why spend 3000 dollars on an electric bike over a 600 mountain bike if they gain no advantage? And why make a push for them to be classified as non-motorized so they can be used on non-motorized forest trails if they aren’t useful or rideable on trails.
Also, don’t they make electric utv, wouldn’t that be a better option for logging roads? They are silent and you can carry everything, including a dead elk.
I nearly ran over a buck once while hunting on a mountain bike coming down a hill in the Flint Hills. He was so close, he kicked a rock that bounced off my front tire.
I couldn't agree more, Dan. If more hunters got their lazy butts off ATVs/4x4s, and rode e-bikes instead, it would improve hunting for everyone. That's where the real advantage is, being able to cover miles, quickly, and almost silently. But then, that would take too much effort for some hunters.
Those who think e-bikes are going to suddenly appear of on single track mountain hiking trails are ignorant to how they work, and to the difficulty of riding any bike on those type trails.
I've also learned they're dangerous, especially if you get a little too speedy. Have wrecked my Rambo multiple times. Slick mud and rutty paths are a recipe for crashing out.
I built mine for $1000. Yes, I had visions of grandeur of riding it on (some) single tracks in the area I was hunting that were fairly flat. But the reality is, it is really hard with a backpack on. When a trail gets technical, winding back and forth, or "rooty", or rocky, the backpack throws your balance off. I found out how fun they were on two tracks though and it made up for it. In fact, it was hard not to ditch the gear and pleasure ride (which is easier to do on a single track without any gear).
As for hunting, we would ride, call, ride, call. Ended up face to face with a grizzly doing it. We all agreed (3 of us), it was a great way of staying silent.
As for the electric UTV, my buddy brought a "bad boy" electric/gas bear hunting last fall. It was ok, but kinda gutless going up hill (and I mean a regular fs road up hill). It also "crunched" under tires alot, so, wasn't really nearly as silent as an ebike.
"Those who think e-bikes are going to suddenly appear of on single track mountain hiking trails are ignorant to how they work, and to the difficulty of riding any bike on those type trails.
Interesting evaluation. I’m only 69 so I have no issues getting around to hunt. I saw one a a sportsman show. I can afford to buy one, but there is no way in hell I’d spend that kind of money for an e bike for hunting.
My guess is many will think the out of shape person that can't make 5 mile hikes in elk country will suddenly be there. Doubtful! Riding a bike, etc, is not effort-less. Hell riding an ATV isn't effortless on rough terrain.
It will allow some physically fit to get further, a bit quicker and with less effort expended than walking.
Awesome! Glad they allow you to stay silent on roads/trails open to motorized vehicles while utilizing a motorized vehicle. I can see how the noise from only 2 tires are quieter then 4 tires.
I can't see why anyone would have a problem with them being used in that fashion.
Would love to see ATVs limited or eliminated from archery season. Never gonna happen.
Have no issue at all with a mountain bike or e-bike on bike trails.
It is amazing to watch animals move away from ATVs and how far away it actually affects them.
Mountain bikes and e-bikes also affect critters but nowhere near the impact of ATVs.
These threads have turned my opinion against e-bikes....
Here are some additional advantages I think I will be able to take advantage of: The bike can be hidden so no one will know I am regularly hunting a nearby tree stand. F.S. roads that are not maintained will still be usable with an e-bike. There is brush encroaching on the roadway and downed trees here and there. There will be no violation any fire restrictions using an e-bike off road.
Lots of good points made here. I agree that being quieter on roads that are also open to Trucks and ATVs is their biggest advantage. I hunted a unit in very open country last year and personally witnessed what Treeline mentioned. Elk running from ATVs from great distance, long before the guys in the ATV were even aware of the animals. Also agree you can stash the bike a few yards off a FS road and no one knows you are in there. One more message to Dale06. I doubt if I would have spent the money on an ebike entirely for hunting, but my wife used ours to commute to work all summer and we both rode it many times for fun in addition to my hunting use.
Road hunting 2020.............
"Fact is, this is bullshit." Well it is not my bullshit, it is from the guy who is selling bikes. You called B.S. on 2 quotes from his book. Which leads to a very good question already asked. Why pay so much for an e-bike when it only has a fraction of an advantage over a regular mountain bike? Are we just fisherman buying pretty lures? I will only add that $600 does not get you much of a mountain bike these days.
It is illegal to pursue big game using a motor propelled vehicle. It is not illegal to go to or from your hunting area on one. I know of no one that hunts illegally using an e-bike to pursue anything. If I did want to road hunt, I sure would not use an e-bike. My success would be too low and the work required would be too much.
I know of an approved atv trail that runs along a grass valley for 4 miles. I’ve gone in there at night with my atv to locate bugle with some limited success.
I can’t wait to do that with my quiet, non-smelly ebike. I’m betting the results will be much different
"Fact is, this is bullshit." Well it is not my bullshit, it is from the guy who is selling bikes. You called B.S. on 2 quotes from his book. Which leads to a very good question already asked. Why pay so much for an e-bike when it only has a fraction of an advantage over a regular mountain bike? Are we just fisherman buying pretty lures? I will only add that $600 does not get you much of a mountain bike these days."
Yes, I did call BS, not your BS, but BS on the book quote. There are many things in print I could call BS on. Point is, I think its best to try it before having an opinion. Kind of like me having an opinion on Sitka clothes when I've never owned or tried any. Ebikes have great advantages on logging roads and two track and some single tracks over your basic mountain bike because you can pedal less, look around more, and cover more ground extending your range. But don't be deceived, you aren't going to kill anything off one and you probably will find out you put just as many miles on your feet, just from a different starting point.
There are some mountain bike trails I don't find very fun to pedal up as well (on a regular mountain bike) that may be a bit more fun on an ebike with NO gear strapped on my back. Ebikes are really fun to ride around town as well. I really enjoy mine to go run errands on. If I had it for that reason alone, it was money well spent.
Point is, if most bowhunters thought about the trails and places they go to, try to picture riding a fairly gutless (by motorcycle standards) bike up there with a bow and 10 lbs worth of gear in a backpack. I mean really examined the places you go, the rocks, the switchbacks and washed out trails, ruts, roots, and logs, and then realized you were 2 miles from ANY trail when you actually saw or heard elk, you'd agree that it in most cases it's not very practical.
In any case, I truly hope you have your best season ever this year.
I've had bulls bugle at less than 150 yards from my atv in every western state I've hunted. Had one bugle at the atv my partner drove down the road after I shot my WY bull as well. I think it depends on the area you hunt, like moon phase.
Again. I can take my ebike to get beer. Can’t do that with my atv. Win-win.
Could if you lived in Wyoming.
‘If’ is always an entirely different conversation
Cnelk, thank you. One of THE most important aspects. I almost missed that. ;)
It seems you have the 4 food groups in your panniers. Hops, Barley, Water, Rice. A guy can live for years on those.
I agree with Outdoordan.
I bought the RadRover last spring, $2,100 decked out with fenders, rear rack, panniers and paying a bike shop to assemble it. They don't have to be as expensive as some think. Although, I was a bit disappointed with the hill climbing power of the rear drive and think I should have spent more for a mid-drive.
I used it quite a bit riding fs roads scouting for my cow moose hunt last year. I also used it to quietly ride an ATV trail to haul a climbing tree stand into fairly close proximity to an elk wallow. It's also a blast riding around home for errands or just for fun. It's not so much fun on rocky narrow trails.
Having owned one, I think they are vastly overrated. Sold mine.
“ I will only add that $600 does not get you much of a mountain bike these days.”
That was my thought.... LOL
I bought a pretty good MTB for about $550.... in 1988. No suspension of any kind, but it did have 18 whole gears.
I won’t object to them wherever gasoline engines are permitted, but a motor is a motor is a cotton-pickin’ MOTOR. I can well imagine the limitations that some of the guys have reported that e-bikes have, but honestly, I don’t care. It’s like saying that a mo-ped is a “bicycle”.
But I’ll make you guys a deal; every bowhunter could be allowed a maximum of 2 wheels. Ride ‘em or shoot ‘em; your choice.
'Why pay so much for an e-bike when it only has a fraction of an advantage over a regular mountain bike? Are we just fisherman buying pretty lures? '
Same reason a dog licks himself. I buy a lot of pretty lures too. I like to buy things I enjoy. You have a problem with that?
People forget that your charge will only last for so long before recharging is needed. Unless you have a generator in camp or some other way to recharge the bike you will quickly limited to foot power.
Ollie, they can be recharged from little portable solar panels, or from 110-12V inverters. My base camp camper has a solar adapter. And when using minimal assist they'll go 40 miles or more between charges. That's a lot of pedaling.
News release from the City of Fort Collins today announcing ebikes will be permanently allowed on bike-walking trails. Fort Collins has 285 miles of trails and has been conducting a pilot/conflict program for a year.
"Data and public input were collected during the pilot program, and staff has found no major issues associated with allowing e-bikes at this time. In addition, public feedback and input from City Boards and Commissions indicated more support for allowing e-bikes than opposition, particularly Class 1 e-bikes. Further, research and the pilot program indicate e-bikes provide mobility, sustainability, and health benefits."
Like them or not, they aren't going away...
Eboots aren't far behind. Several versions out there already. On a related note, the new season of Westworld is starting.
As the winter breaks into spring, I'm using mine more for running errands and with my gym closed, it is giving me another aspect of my workouts as ya don't have to use eAssist all the time.
I can put a Street Legal kit on my RZR2 and change my licensing option and use it here in town but I don't need/want to do that with my eAssist bike doing good enough for me.
Good luck, Robb
I'm glad to see at least one person read my bike. So thanks for that. ebikes can be of great advantage, depending on your needs, the terrain you ride and the ebike you choose. They are certainly not all created equal. Some are designed for flat roads and rolling hills, like those with a rear hub motor that only has 60Nm of torque, but then there those with good mid drive motors with 160Nm of torque can climb like a mountain goat, or pull a heavy trailer. Nobody should be using ebikes where the law doesn't permit it, but if the law allows it and a guy or gal wants an advantage (because there are plenty of advantages) there's nothing wrong with that.
"It is illegal to pursue big game using a motor propelled vehicle."
This may be true in your state, but this is not true in every state.
I don't think anyone has an issue with ebikes going down trails that are open to motorized traffic. They don't belong anywhere that motorized vehicles are prohibited. The fact is they are motorized and create an advantage or people wouldn't be spending the money and using them.
Keep them off roads and trails that are closed to motorized vehicle and i could care less what you do with them.
If they aren’t giving you an advantage and you get beat up AND they are dangerous Jesus.... why not walk? I’m confused.
If I happen to draw some Wyoming antelope tags this year, I know for a fact that the ebike will be a good advantage riding 2 track BLM roads to my spots. (Legal on BLM)
My bet is the animals will just stand and watch me ride along.
We all know what antelope do when a truck or atv drives on BLM roads.
The true advantage is you can travel farther and faster than a regular bike for the same amount of expelled energy. And you do it quietly. But the reality is, they still take effort to ride, which will keep most hunters from using one. Given the choice between pedaling an e-bike 5-10 miles and riding an ATV, I think we all know what most hunters will do, unfortunately.
Instead of whining about motors in non-motorized areas, hunters should be embracing e-bikes as a healthy alternative to stinky noisy ATVs and 4x4s. It would make hunting better for everyone in the long run.
Deflect it GG. Nobody has an issue using motors where motors are allowed. It's the recent definition that "a little motor" is the same as "no motor" that many of us have a problem with.
No deflection here, Smarba. The reality is, those "non-motorized" areas that you are whining about represent a tiny fraction of areas where e-bikes could be used effectively. The minuscule percentage of hunters who will actually ride e-bikes on non-motorized trails pails in comparison to the numbers of hunters who would benefit from e-bikes replacing ATVs in other areas.
Since you seem to be one of the biggest opponents to e-bikes, I'll ask you the same question that remains unanswered, so far. How many hunters do you know who regularly use MTBs to access non- motorized hunting areas? I've seen it only a few times in 50 years of hunting in Colorado. I doubt e-bikes are going to change that.
When you have to resort to mental backflips to make your case its pretty apparent that your case is BS.
The point made above sums it up for me. If a motorized vehicle is legal I’m cool with it. But if the sign says no to motorized then there should be no exceptions.
In our society that is trending toward inclusiveness, and with so many cities, counties, states, and now Department of the Interior accepting them wherever conventional bikes are allowed, it's only a matter of time before USFS allows them too.
Pilot programs everywhere show they have more support than opposition. Some may compare them to allowing crossbows in archery season. Fair enough. I'm old enough to compare them to allowing compounds during archery season. So like it or not, better learn to accept them or you'll grow into bitter old men like some old trad guys we know, who still resent how compounds ruined bowhunting.
This thread was just meant to bring attention to what an ebike is NOT. An ebike is not the motorized version of coronavirus to hunting lol. An ebike is many things, and I absolutely love mine. You find very few people buying them then turning around and selling them. Mine cut over half my ATV use this last fall. Why? because I believe it was a way better tool. I pedaled into a tree stand on frozen snow, leaned my bike up against a poplar and slowly tiptoed to my stand. 20 yards from my bike I see a doe filtering through the woods. They are a silent machine. They are easy to move. They have great hauling capabilities with a rack on them. They are mobile. They are costless to run. They leave no scent on the ground. They are a machine you can use and also leave close to your hunting site. They allow you to cover vast distances in a short amount of time assuming moderate terrain. And best of all, they are very, very fun.
What they are not: Loud, nimble (compared to a regular MTB) or something that will move a thousand pounds, some magic machine that magically transports people effortlessly to any place they want to be in the backcountry
I just find it laughable that the proponents refuse to admit that adding "a little motor" is different from "no motor".
To address GG: "How many hunters do you know who regularly use MTBs to access non- motorized hunting areas? I've seen it only a few times in 50 years of hunting in Colorado. I doubt e-bikes are going to change that."
Honestly I know very few, myself included an avid MTBer, that use MTB to access non-motorized areas. However, I disagree with your belief that eBikes won't change that.
I don't know of anyone that accesses Wilderness areas with helicopters (BTW that's illegal). But if the rules changed to allow it, I bet many would do so. Just as many will begin to use eBikes.
Out of one side of "your" mouths eBikes are awesome tools that give a physical advantage and allow access to wonderful hunting areas. But out of the other side of "your" mouths, they don't really help all that much. Say what?!
Regardless what dimwit politician who's getting pockets lined with funding from eBikes to be "inclusive" dictates, "a little motor" and "no motor" are not the same thing. Because the next step is "a little more motor" and "another wheel" and "a motorized trailer" and so on.
Maybe we should allow battery-powered chain saws in Wilderness? They're just "a little motor" compared to hand saws, which are currently the only legal way to clear trails.
Maybe we should allow ATVs to drive "a little way" into Wilderness, because that border line should be more inclusive?
So are they a "GAME CHANGER" or not?
They're used in lots of places up here.
"I just find it laughable that the proponents refuse to admit that adding "a little motor" is different from "no motor".
What's laughable is your straw man argument. I have yet to see where anyone claimed a small motor isn't a motor. Nor have have I seen anyone, here, advocating e-bike use in non-motorized areas. The fact that laws now allow them in some of those areas is reality. And a very small number of hunters will use those laws to their hunting advantage. Hopefully, a much larger group of hunters will embrace e-bikes where they are a practical alternative to ATVs and 4x4s, for the benefit of all hunters.
Ummm, compound bows started with just a couple little wheels. They really didn't help much, only 10-20% letoff. Now they have big huge programmed cams, with up to 90% letoff. Anyone can become proficient with one in a couple hours, and they allow people with no woodsmanship skills at all to become "bowhunters", overwhelming the woods during what used to be "archery" seasons.
So a mechanical contraption with just a couple little wheels is still a "bow", right?. And as the wheels got bigger and became programmed cams, you guys eagerly embraced them because they allowed you to hunt in ways never possible before, shooting further, drawing easier, with unimaginable accuracy right out of the box. There's your "slippery slope", but where is your moral outrage?
Sure, I get what you're saying, smarba. I really do. Unfortunately, you're on the wrong side of this. It isn't "politicians" who are making the decisions. It's government policy-makers with no skin in the game who are studying the issue objectively. As in my quote above from my city plannners, they aren't finding conflicts that the fear-mongers claimed would happen, and support outweighs objections everywhere.
Of coarse a motor is a motor, but the law permits using e-bikes with up to a 750 W motor in many places, the same as for mountain bikes. Personally I do not care if you like it. For now e-bikes of any kind are not permitted in some places. It does not matter if I like it or not. I do not think the "politicians are "dimwits". They are moving thoughtfully and carefully on this matter. E-bikes can give a little advantage in some areas and a huge advantage in others. I plan to ride mine 8 miles each way daily into an area where I have a tree stand. There are a few logs across the road and brush has encroached so much that my pickup is not a good choice. The road is there and legally open, but is not being maintained. I considered an ATV for the job, but concluded that the e-bike was better over all.
I think I did a pretty good job of explaining what they can and can't do. I can't help it if the processing doesn't work. Why don't you try one out? That will possibly allow you to understand, and have an informed opinion. Nobody says they should be in wilderness areas, stop the hysterics.
"they allow people with no woodsmanship skills at all to become "bowhunters"
I have a compound, and it didn't make me a bowhunter. I have many unfilled tags. I'm not picky either, any healthy legal animal that presents a good shot gets and arrow. Furthermore, gasp, I have missed with my compound bow also.
I think you’re overlooking the fact that Lou has his tongue jammed pretty deep into his cheek, there...
And with that said...
“ So like it or not, better learn to accept them or you'll grow into bitter old men like some old trad guys we know, who still resent how compounds ruined bowhunting.”
I resent the hell out of ‘em, and I’m only 55!
Of course, all of my bows are single-strings; 2 out of my 3 MTBs are steel frame; I’m 5’4” and still ski 183s (down from 195s-205s); and both of our cars are 6-speed manuals...
So I’m ALLOWED to get pissy. You guys shooting wheels, cables and triggers need to shut the hell up and take your Growacet....
Quinn@work's last post said it all.
I discourage people from using E-bikes due to the safety aspect of them as mentioned in the OP. They are like a clumsy dirt bike. Attached is a picture of my dad from last spring where he hit a small hole in a two track in a field and flipped his ebike. He was wearing a bicycle helmet which helped but didnt provide full protection. He had broken ribs, a concussion, cuts, and was knocked out for a couple hours.
Ebikes do not handle well in my opinion and while sound good in theory (pun intended), dont provide the benefit you think theyre going to. I truly think theyre a worse and more unsafe version of a dirt bike. So if you wouldnt hunt or go somewhere with all your gear on a dirt bike, I wouldnt do it on a ebike.
The world is falling apart, stock market crashing, business going under, everyone locked in their homes, frail people dying.
And you guys are still debating e-Bikes? SMH.
“ The world is falling apart, stock market crashing, business going under, everyone locked in their homes, frail people dying...”
And you guys still think it’s important to change the laws to allow you to the add the horsepower of a blow-dryer to a bicycle to make it easier for you to access areas which are off limits to Motiorized Vehicles??
Funny, isn’t it, how those who disagree with us are never raising a Valid or Substantial point, eh?
JMO, the world is NOT falling apart; the stock market is going to recover sooner or later; whatever it is, we will adjust. My wife and boys and I didn’t much care for getting flooded out of our home in Sandy, and I REALLY didn’t care for having our housing costs go up by $20k/year, but I took on a couple extra jobs and we got through it. Now, we even make mortgage payments instead of rent.
We’re not up against Ebola, the Spanish Influenza, Smallpox or the Black Death.
This, too, shall pass...
"Funny, isn’t it, how those who disagree with us are never raising a Valid or Substantial point, eh?"
I guess that all depends on your perspective... ;-)
Nope; it’s a Universal!
Pat, it's a good diversion in this time of crisis, especially when some view ebikes as the end of civilization.
"The world is falling apart,..."
No, it's not. We are allowing the government and media to spiral us into a panic by a virus that has a mortality rate of 1-1/2% and typically like most flus, targets those over 60...
"stock market crashing, ..."
It's done it before, will do it again.
"business going under,.."
Don't know of any businesses that have failed this week.
"everyone locked in their homes,.."
Go the hell out. Take a walk, look for sheds, go for a run, pull trail cams. That's what me an the fam are doing this afternoon.
"frail people dying."
Frail people die everyday. Roughly 14,000 have died since our "normal" flu season kicked off in Ocotober/November. Majority are elderly, as they are hit the hardest by the flu. Just like last year, the year before, the one before that, the decade before, that...
Never took you for an alarmist, Pat.
The problem started when people starting using those darn horseless carriages.
I think Pat's right. We should obsess over all the doom and gloom, and stop all these frivolous diversions. SMH.
I have one and love it. It definently lets me hunt a way bigger area than I could with my regular mountain bike. Am I now worried that others are now going to hunt the spots that I hunt? No. They are the same guys that would be hunting it with there regular mountain bikes or hiking in anyways.
A bit off topic, but these exo skeletal things they have developed for the military are really cool for carrying loads.
Here is one that I had not seen before that is even more sophisticated.
Rut Nut's Link
Never thought Pat would be an ALARMIST!
Pat- you must have missed my link! ;-)