Contributors to this thread:
I think I know the answer but....
Here's the story:
With time on my hands, I decided to dig out my '06 Bowtech Tribute. I thought I might try and tune it (and myself) up, and start shooting again.
It has a bottom cam that is slightly canted when at rest (lay an arrow along the cam and it crosses the string on one side, and leans heavily away on the other).
I lined things up to a center shot just eyeballing and began shooting bareshafts (too lazy to fletch at this point) through paper. I was getting hard knock-right tears, so I adjusted rest away from riser. It got a little better, but it was getting so far away from center that I didn't like it. So, then I decided it was my grip. I have fought this before with this bow, it's why I quit shooting it a few years back. The grip has been removed and I just have a layer of hockey tape on the bare riser grip area. So, I put the rest back to center and decided to play with grip. I can get a bullet hole if I really put my whole life-line on the grip with pressure on the bottom of the life line. But the key component is that I need to add thumb pressure to get a bullet hole.
The big issue for me is that I will get a bullet hole, then the next shot it will be a hard knock-right tear. I feel like I didn't change that much, but it was obviously enough to change the conditions the arrow is leaving the bow. If I put too much thumb pressure I will get a knock-left tear, but not a lot.
I guess my question is should I keep chasing that grip torque that I need, or is it possible that the bow is just too fussy.
Nearest pro- shop is 800 km away and close due to Covid-19
Specs: 06 Bowtech Tribute, 28" draw, 60lb Easton Axis 5mm match grade. 400 flex. Cut to 28" to center of knock Rest: Limb Driver (original)
I had a tribute. Loved that thing. Man it was fast, lightweight and easy to carry. I can’t remember now how it tuned tho! I will say this. Tune the bow to you, don’t tune you to the bow. If you have to manipulate your grip to get it to shoot you’re asking for trouble when it’s crunch time.
Yoke tune at very least or shim the cam and see what happens. I wouldn't put up with it like that. I can send you some photos of my pipe camp bow press, or just google them on Archery Talk to easily build one if you or a friend have a few wood working tools. Or buy a commercial bow press so you can tune. Good luck.
I would like to have a bow press would help. I have done some googling and shims keep coming up. will have to figure out what that means and where I can get these shims.
This cam system doesn't have a yoke. Back in the day it was called a binary cam system. Each cam is tied to each other.
Have you tried different spined arrows? A knock right tear could mean arrows are to stiff.
Bowtech has tuning videos called Bowtech U. Set it up per their instructions. I think what you'll find is that IF you set it on centershot and IF you grip it according to multiple YouTube instruction sites and you're not getting good bareshaft flight you'll have to adjust the cam lean. Again...easily done per the Bowtech videos.
I bought a 2020 Bowtech Revolt recently. Set it up per their videos. After doing so I had nock left bare shafts. (Note: if your bareshafts aren't consistent chances are you're inducing non-consistent torque grip...work on that before proceeding. Again...many YouTubes on grip.) Now...with the Revolt they've made cam lean adjustment simple. All I had to do was adjust both cam positions .010" to get perfect bullet holes out to ten yards. Now...by fooling a bit with my grip...and it doesn't take a lot, I can get nock left or right tears. That's why I said to get a consistent grip before anything else. Several things affect your bare shaft flight...grip, dynamic arrow spine, poundage, etc. Subsequently just because you have perfect bare shaft bullet holes chances are if you have a buddy shoot your bow it will be off for him...his grip may be a bit different.
I get what you are saying Cornpone, but my cams are quite different from the cams and cables in the videos, and therefore I can't do a lot of what they are doing on there. I don't have the split bus cables, so I'm not sure how I'd adjust for cam lean or if I even can.
I've considered the "stiff" arrow idea. I'd have to either order longer arrows, heavier tips or a softer spined arrow. Based on where I live, all are kind of a pain, just to "try".
Sounds like you have had this bow for a number of years and just dusted it off after several years. If so is this a new problem? If new problem is that the same arrow setup as before?
Try to rotate your hand slightly as if you are reaching your thumb farther forward on the riser. Your pointer finger knuckle will move slightly toward you or in a slight counterclockwise rotation if you are a righty. I have had the same issue with bows at times.
That cam lean needs to go, shimming should fix it. I can’t imagine being without a bowpress.
Everyone who tunes or sets up their own bows needs a bowpress, you need to shim that bow, PITA but its the only option, I fought for years trying to tune, moving my rest way out of center with my elite, darton, mathews, until i bought a bowtech experience with static yokes, game changer! And now with bowtechs new deadlock system, wow talk about easy
I never cared for the binary cam system for this exact reason. Shims *may* help a little, but if the lean is excessive, no amount of shimming will correct it. I fought with a Bowtech General with binary cams for months. Never could get that bow tuned to my liking, so I gave it away. The binary system was probably the worst eccentrics ever put on a compound bow.
You said you grip the bow on your life-line. Ideally, you want to grip the bow between the life-line and your thumb with the knuckles at about a 45 degree angle and with a relaxed grip to eliminate any torque. I think your problem is more of a form issue. There is a guy on Archery Talk that goes by nuts&bolts that’s amazing on giving advise, both on form issues and bow setup......I would seek his help.
Also, it is best to check cam lean after the bow is at full draw, not at rest.
I have to agree that your lifeline should never touch the bow. The fatty "drumstick" part of your thumb should be having the most contact. Imagine being a traffic director in the middle of an intersection giving a "STOP" hand signal to a motorist. THAT is your hand position. (only with relaxed fingers)
Just watched a video where Chris Bee says the fatty part of the thumb is too inconsistent for a grip point.
Thanks Carcus, now I need to spend some $$$
There are some questions above that I haven't answered.
The arrows are new ones I bought a couple years ago, the last time I tried what I'm trying now. They didn't make the Easton Epic's anymore, so the dealer I ordered from recommended these. Gave me what he figured I needed based on draw length and poundage.
I bought the bow when I lived in Southern Manitoba and used to hunt more, back in 2006. I shot pretty good with it when I first bought it. I had an incident where I hit my climber stand on a shot at a deer and exploded the cam and limb and it needed to go to the factory. Then I moved north where the only animal to bow hunt are black bears, and I have three young kids and coach soccer, baseball and try to get some fishing in (#1 priority).
So, every now and then I dust the unit off, and try to tinker. The last time was when I removed the grip.
Chris is a great shot but, he has less than desirable form. I don't even know where to begin....
This guy has it better for the average guy.
The grip demonstrated in X-man's video is exactly how I was taught to grip a bow by a world class target archer named John Willig. I always cringe a little when I see guys shooting with a death grip on their bows. The other most common mistake in form that I see is guys shooting with a straight (locked elbow) bow arm. Both of these mistakes create torque and follow-thru problems, and makes tuning nearly impossible.
If you go back and forth from bullet hole tear, my first thought is grip form issue. Just retired from the archery retail business after 30 years. Have someone else shoot the bow thru paper and see what it does. If you had access to a hooter shooter you could say for sure. If it is spine stiffness it will tear the same every time if you are repeating your grip form.