Contributors to this thread:
US Canada Border Reopening
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-us-in-talks-to-reopen-border-amid-pandemic-sources-say/ Reading the note referenced above does not sound particularly hopeful for a border reopening in time for spring bear hunts
Trump said yesterday he is willing to open the US / Canada Border sooner rather than later... I like Trump!!
They oughta be letting guys come over to hunt/fish. Theres plenty of safe ways to make that happen and it will keep outfitters whole. Theres no reason to have all these guides outfitters go out of business over this. Its not a huge group gathering and can be safely done. Le'ts hope Trump can get that border open soon.
I'm sure they could care less about the outfitters just look at what they did with the spring bear hunt when they put many outfitters out of business !
We in the NW of Ontario need to uprise. Toronto, Ottawa, Windsor, all the Cities 1200 miles away are dictating what the rest of Ontario does. Put a blockade at WAWA. Let no one in from the East Part of Ontario. WE will be fine then... just rambling of course!!
If you read the comments, the Canadians sure don't seem to want the border open again anytime soon. Quite a bit of anti-US sentiment in those comments.
Their income doesn't count on sportsmen's dollars .
A minority of people can be loud but the majority agree with Trump. City dwellers are being subdued by Government checks. They couldn't care less as long as they keep on the dole. Dryden was saying this morning that they will be losing a lot of revenue over this shutdown. Most here want things to start back up..... Media needs to focus outside of the Cities in the East!!
The comments made me want to vomit. Loads of hypocrisy spewing from so many Canadians. They are fine with all the medical supplies and food.
I agree 100% happy.... Michigan people are protesting. Banning people planting in their gardens, Fishing etc. is a little ridiculous.
We live in the U.S. right on the border(very rural) and I know all of our local businesses are missing the Canadian traffic.Covid is here for sure maybe not in the numbers of the big cities but it is here.Luckily the state (NY) just reopened the boat launches and we can at least fish.Things are going to be tough on both sides of the border for a while for sure. I run a small business and feeling the pinch myself;it will get better but not for some time for sure.
Our little town relies 100% on Tourism. Tourism, Americans, bring new money into our local economy. Locals here know it!! Ontario brought in 53,000,000.00 in revenues just on bear hunting. Think of all the spin off related to just Bear tourism. Employee's who were on EI in our town will be losing big as they wont be able to get back to work. Tips, high pay, not enough hours can be made up for them to be able to collect in the Fall. Canada is in MAJOR trouble as Canada can't afford this.
Spike what is up with Kenora? They rely on tourism dollars from Manitobans and Americans and yet have disdain for every visitor that comes through.
Canadians in general are more and more in love with socialism every day. Complete stupidity. So ya, it isn't encouraging the way the average Canadian thinks.
A visitor from out east visited an Old Age home there ( Kenora)on the lake. Infected of course. So now, they should be banning Easterners from coming to NW Ontario. Instead they pick on Manitobans!!
Happy, you are reading comments from people in the Lala Land of the Unicorn Fart breathing Rainbow Pony we call our leader. No different then the attitudes from your own people from Left Coast big cities. (and creeping inwards too). There are people in Canada that hate Trump almost as much as some Americans do.
Every morning, in our coffee shop. There are the coffee drinkers who love Trump. Hate Trudope and his socialist attitude. The conversations we hear while serving them is a surprise to me. The silent majority in Canada like Trump. Detest Trudope.
These liberal/socialist people in the Minority are always the mouthy ones and love to hear themselves talk, thinking they are speaking for everyone. They like spouting off about poll numbers and how many people share their views, just like when Hildabeast was so far ahead in the polls, look how that turned out! More of us that can think for ourselves than they thought. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRuD2MCNW1k
God Bless our President Donald J Trump and all the decisions he makes. We need him to be strong during this difficult time. I'd like to think Canada is worried about there outfitters livelihoods but we shut down billion dollars industries like the NBA, NCAA, MLB, NHL & many more. If we can do that, Canada can shutdown all of hunting without blinking an eye..
"If you read the comments, the Canadians sure don't seem to want the border open again anytime soon. Quite a bit of anti-US sentiment in those comments." "The comments made me want to vomit. Loads of hypocrisy spewing from so many Canadians. They are fine with all the medical supplies and food."
Interesting who was it that wanted to put troops at border and not send any medical equipment to Canada ?
Spike, you like in rural Canada. Rural Canadians for sure the majority would be pro-Trump and anti-Trudeau. But you're living in fairy-land if you think that is Canada-wide. He did just get elected for the 2nd straight term...
Good point Timbr. The US screwed us, and there is no two ways about that one.
They said he was wrong in shutting off china when he did, now they are saying he didn't act fast enough. NYC declined federal recommendation to have more ventilators but now Trump's to blame. Previous administrations didn't plan ahead for this after SARS in 2003, now its trumps fault. Now Canada doesn't have enough PPE and guess who's fault it is... Truly Sad...
The border thing will get very interesting and is multifaceted.
First, what is legally allowed
Second, what are the conditions associated with crossing and staying once things "open" up. What strings are attached.
Third, what are people comfortable with regardless of what is allowed
Fourth, what new rules will exist for outfitters to comply with that may or may not make the whole venture viable to even offer.
The first two are inevitable in that there will be a finite point where crossing is allowed and the rules are clear. Don't know when or what, but there will be a clear when and a what.
The third, what are people comfortable doing is a total wildcard. People will act very differently about what they could care less about and what they are nervous about and what they are petrified about. something as simple as what if I have a fever on the way back to customs to cross back into the US. Can I even get home?
This thing won't be like a light switch being flipped. It is going to be a slow crawl in the dark for many people for quite some time.
The border will not be opened any time soon to non-essential travel, and it's the right decision for both sides. We only get one shot at a return to normalcy. Screw it up, and people's lives and the economy will drastically suffer even more than compared to what is being experienced now. Time to put aside the BS politics folks. We are at war with an invisible enemy. Dem vs Rep, Lib vs Con, US vs CAN gets us nowhere.
Guys like Bou and Frog get it.
"Now Canada doesn't have enough PPE and guess who's fault it is... Truly Sad..."
Canada had a contract with 3m and who do you think supplies the special pulp products to make the N95s I will say JT was stupid in sending supplies to China but pretty sad when a country cuts off a staunch ally just like that in my opinion. I also believe that Canada has no friend in your president which is hard for me to say because I do like Trump but the all for us and screw everyone else is stupid !!!
I love trump he’s got some morels not like what we have leading here. Most of western Canada no love for libs.
Timbr--I don't think Trudeau has done much to endear himself to Trump. Pretty sure he has been just as antagonistic as Trump is--not that either is right, but he's at least as guilty.
TimberH, Canada still gets its PPE from 3M in the States. Just less of it. Also, Trump did not man the border with troops, but Quebec did sent police to the Border. Trudope got millions of FAULTY PPE's from China. They tore when put on. To think Canada's Specialized pulp products cannot be manufactured in the US is crazy.
If you go back to when Trump put on Tarrifs because of national security last year. He was right!!! He's proving his point now.
I also agree with Bou Bound and Frog.... BUT it is the first talk of the border since closing it. A start!!
Not much experience with Canada, but have to say that it was a night and day experience my last trip several years ago. Traveling to a bear hunt in New Brunswick I had to pass through Toronto and it was about the worst travel experience I've ever had. It was only at the airport and the nearby area but the people, nearly everyone, were about the rudest nastiest folks I've ever met. People literally turn their back on you while asking a question or directions. Rude behavior that would get you a slap in the ear many places I've been. It was a lasting impression, will have to return someday just to see if it was a false impression, an aberration.
Had me rethinking what I had gotten myself into..... until I got to NB and it was literally the day from the night, a 180 turn. The people were about the NICEST I've met anywhere. Folks in the towns, everyone I can recall were pleasant. Friendly! Salt of the earth hard working people. I made lifelong friends that week, some I'm still in contact with time to time. One of the coolest trips I've been on. I still shake my head thinking back at the vast difference in the people/cultures in the same country (granted, a YUGE country) on the same trip.
I don't think it's a US or a Canadian thing, seems a huge chasm between the urban and rural cultures....and getting wider in many ways. And also in many ways those cultures have nothing to do with the populations of the cities.... more so the attitude and even values of the residents.
Hope Canada finds their Trump someday. =D Someone who values individual freedoms and rights more than perpetual victimhood and entitlement.
TD, look at Pierre Poilievre's take on things up here in Canada. Kurt
I was going to say the same thing TD. Seems to be more of an urban vs rural thing. Thankfully, with the vast landscape of Canada, and the small number of people, most of Canada will give you that "rural" feel even if it is only half of Canadians. Western Canada is largely made up of good folk!! The eastern side of Canada has always been known for pleasant "shirt off their back" type folks. You just have to look out for Quebec and the urbanized Ontario people where all the politicians live lol.
"I love trump he’s got some morels not like what we have leading here."
I'm not quite sure what the kind of mushrooms he has, has to do with anything, but it's what I've come to expect from a Trump supporter.
In regard to the decision forcing 3M to reduce exports, it was a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't for Trump. He was blasted for the government not having a pandemic sized surplus of masks, PPEs, and ventilators. He enacted the Defense Act forcing some companies to make the needed supplies. How does it look if those companies are exporting before our own country has the surplus needed for the peak? He'd be blasted for allowing that to happen. The libs have an agenda and can play either side of the argument against Trump. The POTUS has to take care of his own people first and foremost.
I'm 67 and for most of my adult life I earned my living as a hunting guide.
Now that I'm retired, I still keep in touch with many good American friends and I've been down to visit and bow hunt 4 different States with them through the years. Coincidently, not only do we have similar outdoor interests... it seems that we also have very similar political views, LOL!
Anyhow, the United States and Canada were founded by the same people and for many other reasons we need not get into right now, I don't think that Canada should be considered as just "another" country by the U.S.... even if our Prime Minister is a fool.
I have to admit that I like Trump (for the most part, LOL!), and you have no doubt already concluded that I cannot stand our Prime Minister.
However, as far as the fuss the media and the politicians made about the shipments of medical gear, I think that the place that needed it the most should have gotten it first - and that was/is the northeastern U.S.
Also, like many U.S. networks, the media here always does their best to "adjust" the news to their point of view and to please the "politically correct to the point of being ridiculous", artificial, "new society" majority - that we as outdoors people, and/or northern folk, and/or rural folk, and or simply logical down to earth human beings constantly struggle with.
As Spike Buck mentioned, in most cases the millions of non-hunting (anti everything I believe in) urbanites have the arrogant attitude that we should live our lives the way they think we should, and they vote accordingly.
Negative experiences have a natural tendency to spawn negative opinions - but there are many Canadians like me that consider us cousins... which reminds me that I do have three first cousins that are born and bred Americans, LOL!
Wishing everyone the best spring hunting season that we can salvage or even figure out near home.
Canadians are wonderful people. Never an issue. BC to arctic to Newfoundland. Great folks one and all.
I have spent over 40 years fishing, hunting and playing ball, and an occasional drink in Ontario and think the many Canadians I've met over the years are very nice. As a matter of fact, they are also more tuned into what is going on in our country they many of us are.
Cant say enough good things about all my Canadian friends, and everyone i have dealt with hunting and fishing from canada. Great people
"We in the NW of Ontario need to uprise. Toronto, Ottawa, Windsor, all the Cities 1200 miles away are dictating what the rest of Ontario does. " Hey spike buck if you think Windsor dictates what the rest of Ontario does you are so wrong it isn't funny. In fact I would say most Windsorites are closer to being American than Canadian lol and if you equate Windsor with Toronto again them would be fighting words lol
I'll take note of that Timbrhuntr! Won't include Windsor in my list again.
For the Canadian Outfitters who frequent this site.......are any of the various outfitter groups / organizations doing anything cooperatively to suggest to their government folks that cutting off the spring bear hunt is a financial issue of some magnitude to their members and to point out to said government folks that outfitter camps aren't generally large groups of people congregating in close proximity? Seems to me that at least in Manitoba, Saskatchewan , and Alberta they might have some political weight.
The government in Ontario is so overwhelmed right now. The economy is being sidetracked. BUT our Association is constantly poking ministers on the issue of Seasonal Tourism Business. I think that Alex Desjardin said their Association is also working on things.
I regret to say, don't expect a Spring hunt in Ontario.
Also, many outfitters who own camps in Ontario are stranded State side. Own camps here but are not Canadians.
I've really got zero opinion on the border opening or staying closed. That is above my pay grade. What I do have an opinion on is it is in no way a responsibility of the United States president to make Canadian lives better. Where does that stupid entitlement come from? I wish nothing but the best for those north of the border but, how in the world does America owe Canada anything concerning this virus. We have our own problems here. And, that is where any administrations first priority needs to be. Not making Canadian lives better.
I truly hope and pray the virus spares all countries. BTW, great post Ken
Spike buck....might the individual provinces operate somewhat separately? My spring bear hunt is in Manitoba. I would think that outfitters would have to start baiting within the next week or maybe two and that's a real financial risk if the border might still be closed for U.S. hunters come the first week or two of May.
It's the Prime Minister who decides when the border opens. Not the Provinces Premiere's. I would imagine May would be out of the question. BUT, maybe they are giving the worse scenario's to keep people in the homes. But I doubt it. Send your guide in Manitoba an email.
If canadians don’t want my money I’m happy to not give it to them. Plenty of outfitters East and west in the US that can provide me with a quality bear hunt.
TD, I agree 100%, we had a blast with you in camp that week in New Brunswick. The people in New Brunswick were the some of the friendliest I've ever met, that is part of the reason I hunted there for 12 years. Made some good friends.
Trad PA.....It's not a matter of not wanting to host our American friends. Until the Pandemic is controlled, doing so is unsafe and irresponsible for everyone involved. Your statement is like me complaining about my NYC buddy not wanting to take me in for a weekend visit at this point.
Spike sez..."It's the Prime Minister who decides when the border opens. Not the Provinces Premiere's."
I don't know if you were responding to a post I made yesterday that got deleted for some strange reason. If PM Trudeau has a re-opening plan like Prez Trump, which I think he will now come up with one since Prez Trump announced his yesterday, the PM could delegate reopening and border control authority to the provinces.
JL, I was responding to the post from Stubbleduck. I like the idea of someone in the Higher up (Trump) talking about border reopening. Hopefully he starts Trudeau talking about it more seriously. There has been no mention of the border till it was mentioned yesterday. But I doubt it will open in time for any May hunt.... hope I am wrong.
Ontario does not have the infections under control and say that the worse case scenario might just happen.
Comparing case counts from NYC to Canada is like comparing a Lamborghini to a moped. We have 22x more cases now & over 300,000,000 more people in the USA. Agree with Spike Buck, you have to start somewhere and i'm glad Trump took that step. I'm not saying this isn't a serious situation but I still firmly believe far more people are suffering from depression, anxiety, physical abuse, substance & alcohol relapses.
There are plenty of people crossing the border here every day and going to and from work. That’s Probably far more dangerous than someone going bear hunting. I also see many trains every day a bulk of which are carrying Shipping containers full of chinese goods. Just observations......
I normally cross the border at least twice per week..... it’s not the end of the world but it’s Not making things easy on me. Does anybody want to buy a cabin on American soil that’s inaccessible without crossing Canadian soil??
"I've really got zero opinion on the border opening or staying closed. That is above my pay grade. What I do have an opinion on is it is in no way a responsibility of the United States president to make Canadian lives better. Where does that stupid entitlement come from? I wish nothing but the best for those north of the border but, how in the world does America owe Canada anything concerning this virus. We have our own problems here. And, that is where any administrations first priority needs to be. Not making Canadian lives better."
Its thought and comments like this that I find just unbelieveable. I guess my daughter that travels to the US to work in a hospital full of american covid 19 patients and her 1500-2000 other canadian nurses like her that put their lives at risk everyday in american hospitals should just not care about making american lives better ! I guess our PM like many want should just cut off all border crossing as yes your country has way more causes and population and is a much greater risk to us in canada. Thankfully not everyone thinks as you do !!!!
Mr Bailey, he's a grumpy old man... just ignore him. He says things like that to get you going. Give thanks to your daughter from us. Need more people like her in this world!!
Your right I have many great friends from hunting and work relationships from the US. I always consider our relationship different like brothers from different mothers and it really bugs me when some just make comments I find difficult to understand !
Plus I'm a little grumpy too because I should be travelling right now chasing turkeys in Montana , Kansas, Nebraska and Michigan and I just found out I didn't get drawn for any big game in Montana for this fall !
I know nothing about CTV so it could be fake news but reports are coming out that the US & Canada have agreed to keep the border closed for another 30days.
It looks like Trudeau and Trump will be talking soon....I kinda expected that after yesterday.
Also...I like how this Canadian paper shows the virus situation there.....total confirmed cases/deaths/recovered/tested. I haven't seen that in a US paper.
Lets just be frank, fellows. Neither country has control of the cure/spread of this contagion. Have been talking w/my outfitter last night as he sent emails out to his clients updating his situation/concerns. He has very elderly parents living with him and other family. He is not joking about his concerns about exposing himself to possible contagion brought across and then his family. He lives just south of Montreal and the elderly homes of that city and the same homes in Ontario are being hit hard. Insane if the pols elect to open either country until they control spread, provide plenty of PPDs NOT made in China, supply hospitals with needed equipment, etc. Were I Trump/PM; I would be focused on our nations' farmers and supplying the food chain for all folks! Let the professionals take care of medical provision/rapid research. Both of the leaders better focus on FF...food and fuel or neither will be in office much longer. Like Trump...Hate Congress!!! Our outfitter is willing to push us to 2021.
I guess my daughter that travels to the US to work in a hospital full of american covid 19 patients and her 1500-2000 other canadian nurses like her that put their lives at risk everyday in american hospitals should just not care about making american lives better !
My daughter is a nurse too and there is a shortage of PPEs and masks where she works so I 100% appreciate where you are coming from. But, I have to ask this given the wording of your reply to whoever that was. Why does your daughter choose to work in an American hospital versus a Canadian one? Is it truly to make American's lives better versus Canadian's as your reply reads, or is it because the American hospital she works at pays her better with better benefits than her options where she lives in Canada? Be honest.
First of all they would have to do income taxes in both Countries, one hassle. A Canadian Nurse has to pay for a work visa yearly, it isn't cheap. From what I understand most Canadian nurses working in Detroit are specialized in certain fields. Putting up with customs agents twice a day, another hassle. The hassle doesn't seem worth it to me.... Just shows that Nurses care!!
I live on the border. Our village is a mixed bag of Canadians and Americans. No difference. St Stephan, NB, and Calais, Maine might as well be one town, families are so intertwined.
I dont see the relevance of pay difference if there is any, anyone that that subjugates their own well being to help others has my respect.
I respect all healthcare workers. I never said different. Don’t act like a fool timbrhunter.
I agree all nurses care. As I said, my daughter is a nurse and risks exposure daily.
The reply just seemed to imply that she took the job in America solely to help Americans. There is more to it than that. If the same opportunity existed in my country closer to home, for equal pay, and I don't have to pay for a work visa, I know where I am working. Relevance of pay in a job does not matter? If there are 2 equal jobs opportunity wise, I believe most people take the higher paying job. Maybe it's just my interpretation but the reply came off very strange to me.
Canada-U.S. agree to extend border restrictions by 30 days
Spike buck.....So you’re sayin there’s a chance!! ;-)
No the reply did not mean that she took the job solely to protect Americans. There are many reasons she took the job and I will not try and debate her reasons with you ! But on the other hand with this crisis she could easily stay home and apply for government assistance but she would not even think of abandoning her patients or co-workers so yes I guess she is on the job just to help americans if you can even understand that !!!! Or another way I could put it living on the border I would not even think twice as a retired firefighter of crossing the border to assist my Americam brothersd in an emergency sitiuation. I almost think of us as the same . This crisis has somewhat opened my eyes on this especially with some of the comments here. I remember that during the 9/11 crisis several planes we diverted to canadian airports maybe Canada should have said keep your planes as shouldn't we think more of our countries safety than yours. As some here would have said how does Canada owe America anything in this crisis !
Troy, If cities in the East get their act together.... I'll be ready either way!!
But on the other hand with this crisis she could easily stay home and apply for government assistance
Big time kudos to your daughter for choosing to work versus taking government hand-outs. Here in the states, if my daughter chose to not do her job as a nurse and just quit, she would not get any handouts. She would not qualify for unemployment because she quit and that is how is should be IMHO. And, you are right about the comments. Those anti-American comments in the article were very enlightening. I personally love visiting Canada but I could never live in a socialist country. I am up there at least once annually fishing. I spent loads of time working in Toronto in the early 90s helping to build Canada's Point of Sale network Interac which is still in use. I never realized the disdain Canadians shared for Americans. Very eye opening for sure.
I hope your daughter is able to stay safe!!!
Shull is correct...border closure until May 21st for non-essential travel(ers).
When things begin opening up (borders and businesses) we'd better hope things go right and there is no resurgence of the coronavirus. Otherwise we may well see many of our nonresident opportunities lost all the way through September....which is incidentally only 4 months and change away.
Just for grins.....where was it officially written/stated that selling hunts/services is not essential commerce (ie...essential business)?
The US border with Canada will remain closed to nonessential travel for another 30 days and likely longer, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Saturday.
“The agreement is the same terms. It’s just extended for another 30 days. It will ensure we continue to get essential goods and services back and forth across the border,” Trudeau said, according to the Associated Press.
Trudeau said the closure would last “many, many weeks to come.”
The border closing came March 21 as a way to stem the coronavirus pandemic.
That was the statement from two hours ago and it doesn’t sound like a firm May 21 if anything it sounds like a punt to be evaluated in 30 days with expectations being level leveled
We are treating this like its a blizzard, it will be over then we dig out and have some beer. Unfortunately I think this is gonna be more like a winter, we dig out from one storm only to have another one roll in few weeks later.
Right now I'm making Plans B and C for September in the event I can't hunt Alaska. I suspect Canada is likely lost to cross-border nonessential things for much of the summer. My belief is that scientists and governments will want to suppress the virus to the maximum possible extent before next fall/winter....as there probably will be no vaccine anytime soon.
"TORONTO (AP) — Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Saturday the U.S. and Canada have agreed to keep their border closed to nonessential travel for another 30 days and he said it will be undoubtedly longer before the restriction is removed."
Granted the PM is suggesting it will be longer than the new 30 day extension. IMO the folks there may start to get restless and I'm wondering if we may see protests start to show up there as we now have in the states. The recent Michigan protest in Lansing seems to have started a nationwide trend. Would the Canadian folks there protest to open up the border? Maybe in selected areas??
A message to those who want to re-open......it would appear you have total disregard for human life along with an extremely selfish personal ego. No one can prove to me that either government has anything near complete control of the spread this thing. How can you justify possibly putting others in danger of infection? Best hope that I can see is this virus will have to run its course until a vaccine can be developed.
Alex...we sure do depend on each other and have done so for decades. In 1992 I hunted out of Yellowknife with Fred Webb and very seriously considered trying to move and work there as I spent my life teaching. Have done shows in eastern US for QC/NL outfitters since mid-1990s up until 2010. Scratched a moose itch during 8 trips to NL. This spring bear in QC seems not possible and my outfitter will move the hunt for the three of us to 2021. QC seems far worse than other areas of Canada. One of my friends and I have taken 14 bear with this outfitter and neither will abandon either over this mess.
I feel for the people that r losing there loved ones with this thing, in Manitoba we only have a few hundred cases I don’t want a bunch of cases coming here either I’m pretty hard on our government I wouldn’t want to be a leader in these times I am praying for them. Neufi1946 I’m sure u will get to do a lot more bear hunting. Blessing to all this day.
I personally have no first hand knowledge of the border situation and I’m sure guys above follow it way more closely. That said, with the huge mess that all of this has become I think it is VERY optimistic to believe that the border will be open in 30 days to nonessential travel. I’ve been wrong before though...
That should end our mid May trout trip. The camp owners can't go up yet either. Guess just find something else to do. They are usually pretty well booked so going later like June or so not likely. This will be a case of just bumping the trip to next May.
My late May pike trip to Ontario, just got axed.
my guide who lives in Baffalo narrows just mentioned a large outbreak in La Loch ( probably spelled wrong) 6 hours drive north of Saskatoon the entire towns on lock down nobody in or out ..kiss 2020 bear season goodbye in Saskatchewan for none res anyway,,that's my prediction
Well that's post #2 that disappeared ????
Open the economy open the borders. High risk folks let's protect and be sensible with hygiene and distancing
Bow.....you must have a crystal ball with a rosy future as neither country has control of this thing! I do not have a death wish just to preserve a bear hunt/fishing trip. I have no intention of placing anyone connected with a hunt...hunter or outfitter...in danger. Any camps in the US/or Canada that I have been in are very remote from medical care. All you need is one infected person to mess up an outfitter's season.................High risk folks in Ontario and Quebec and NYC have been hit hard.........and you want to open the country back up.......go figure. The fools who will not cover up, etc., are the ones infecting we high risk folks.
The numbers are proving out that this is slightly worse than a typical flu season here in the states. It certainly is more contagious than the regular flu so smart caution is advised especially for those that are a higher risk. Our countries will not be able to "get control" of this thing. We do not have a vaccine or miracle cure and there are no expectations to have one anytime soon. Does that mean we all hunker down for 6 months? 1 year? Longer? For a virus that has a miniscule death rate for those healthy under 60 should we have such panic and fear? I do not agree. Does that mean I don't value life? Absolutely not but all the extreme expectations at the beginning have not proven to be the least bit accurate. Keep some of the quarantine measures in place for the hardest hit places if their hospitals are overwhelmed, otherwise let's protect the most vulnerable and health compromised and resume life as normal. The flu has been killing 20-40 million people a year here in the states for years but nobody was freaking out, what is different? This particular virus is more contagious and slightly more deadly ...... and the media has sensationalized it with wall to wall coverage. Sorry I don't agree to close everything down and live in constant fear. What we are doing will create more deaths than this virus ; between "non essential" surgeries not happening, check ups missed and late diagnoses. Economic collapse, losing jobs and income, mental health, abuse and many other issues with quarantines. For those who are very concerned please stay inside and let us know how we can help you. For those high risk and health compromised by all means stay quarantined that is the safe and smart option but for everyone else I do not believe we should keep everything closed and shut down
very well said bowfinatic. i couldn't agree more. this whole thing has been blown out of proportion and in my opinion intentionally.
Absolutely blown way out of proportion.
This virus is so infectious that all humans may likely be eventually exposed. It is likely inevitable. Isolate the vulnerable so that treatments can be improved. As long as hospitals are not overwhelmed, and they aren’t, we should let it run it’s course and open up the world.
It almost seems that those who are not at risk are getting frustrated, LOL!
Herpes is highly contagious, but did we ruin our country over it? Hell no! Nobody blew that out of proportion (well, maybe a few did:))
Finally some common sense on this site. Your spot on Bow. Heres a quick one for ya in my state. MT has 10 deaths due to covid. So we shut down the whole state, people lost jobs, cant pay rent, losing life savings and business they have worked hard for along with lost freedoms that other men before us died for. Meanwhile, the good old regular flu has killed 17. Nearly twice the death rate and not one article. No one is freaked out or worried about it. Lots of sheep out there........
I love how some people think they're smarter than people who actually spend their lives dealing with these issues.
Grey Ghost's Link
Bow......you state that the flu has been killing 20-40 million a year here in the states for years. Where in God's name did you come up with those figures? Such a death rate would depopulate the US to near zero in less than a decade. Your post seems to place a lesser value on the lives of those over 60. Were I a young person I would not place ANY person in danger with selfish personal behavior. Best to look around you as not everything in the country is shut down. We had plenty of tractor trailers on our interstate when we hit Wallymart last Saturday along with a lot of face masks. No government has control of this virus and ours needs to quit Washington and let the voters replace them with some who might work together; as folks did on Dec. 8th, 1941.
According to the CDC statistics Covid-19 is at least 3 times more deadly than the flu. I don't consider that "slightly more deadly". Pneumonia, on the other hand, is far more deadly than both.
But I'm sure the scientific experts, here, know better than the CDC.
There's two issues at play here. Controlling the virus and not allowing the country's economy to collapse. Both are bad and devastating for many. We're alot smarter about the virus now than we were a few months ago. We also have some smart folks who understand national economies and what devastates people and businesses financially, which is happening now. I believe at this stage we're smart enough to navigate thru this.
CDC doesn’t know anything about impact economics. They only have recommendations on how to decrease the infection without understanding the ultimate collateral damage.
Newfi I made a correction on the 20-40 million number if you would have read my last post. I meant thousands obviously. I'm not placing any less value on any age just stating the facts that the older population is more at risk just like they are every year for flu/virus/pneumonia type illnesses. Does that lessen their value? Absolutely not
When 22 million people suddenly are on unemployment and a good portion of the country is in quarantine status then yes I will state that the country is "shutdown" Obviously there is still business going on.......(insert eye roll) You deem my behavior selfish. Over the last couple of decades did you quarantine yourself, practice social distancing and wear masks for every flu season, bird flu, SARS? If you didn't how would your behavior ,as you characterized it, not be "selfish"? Just because you feel that is what you should be doing don't try to force your beliefs on me. As I mentioned before our governments can't control the virus. It will run its course regardless of what you do. The initial reason for quarantine was to flatten the curve so our hospitals would not be overwhelmed. Flattening the curve does not lower the number of cases only changes the timeline of how quickly it spreads. Kannuck those people who have made it their life work predicted millions of deaths and catastrophic impact on our Healthcare systems. The number of deaths and serious needs for hospitalization was so much lower than predicted than Healthcare workers all over the country are laid off. I'm sorry if I don't put my stock on all those people way smarter than I am. Initially I did and had no issue with a quarantine and the precautions. Now that the evidence proves a vastly different narrative do they change policy and sensibly open things back up? Nope the narrative suddenly changes and now you don't care about human life and even one death is to many. Even one death is unfortunate but we have very limited power to change the deaths that will continue to happen every year for virus induced illnesses. You can continue to call my behavior selfish and I will politely disagree. Prove to me the hysteria is warranted with the data that is happening
The catch 22 on this one is and will always be that there was massive death predictions, but that was before all the self isolation measures came in. Even once they stared they got ramped up and up. So while yes, the predictions are wrong, the way we dealt with it changed AFTER the predictions, rendering them invalid.
Having said that, I mostly agree with Bowfinatic. Like he says, the goal was to flatten the curve, not curb-stomp the curve. The entire goal with flattening the curve means getting the majority of the population infected, just less at one time. That was the goal people.
If you are one of the people that thinks we need to stay inside and not spread the virus then you do not believe in flattening the curve - you believe in no curve. Which is also a noble idea. But then the question becomes - to what end? The only way to keep people from becoming infected is lockdown. Indefinitely. So if that's what you believe, that's fine, you just have to be OK with the ramifications. Of which, I won't get into.
Every decision has a cost attached to it. Every single one. Do I think our Canadian government got this one perfectly right? No. Do I think the US got it right? No. DO I wish it had been dealt with better? Yes, will I complain about some of the things being done? Yup. But do I for one iota think that I would have gotten it done better, knowing what the government knew when they knew it? No, I am certainly not that vain.
From what I can see, both our countries didn't knock this thing outta the park, but at least in Canada I don't think we are the worst either. (I don't know much about the US) And that's gonna have to be OK enough. It's an unprecedented situation. Do I agree with paying for this stimulus package for thousands of years? Heck no, do I like the way it was rolled out and people who earned literally $5,000/year last year are no earning $2,000/month for nothing? Heck no, don't like it at all. But it is what it is.
I am in the flattening the curve camp. We got it under control, now it's time to release. In a controlled fashion. This was the goal all along remember.
Before they give you the axe, let me just say I wholeheartedly agree with you Bowfinatic!
Open her up, get on with it, get it over with. We all gotta die of something, but I'd prefer it wasn't starvation!
I'm all for starting to open up the economy, BUT, that is no panacea. Those of you that are chomping at the bit are welcome to test the dangers as far as I'm concerned. But even if they released ALL restrictions, it wouldn't help much. Intelligent people are still going to stay home until it's proven to be safe or we have a vaccine. If businesses open, and employees return, but customers don't, those employees better have a plan B. It will be a LONG time before most of us will go to any large gathering, or even a restaurant. How the heck can you eat with a mask on? Some industries may never recover. Who in their right mind would ever get on another cruise ship? Despite what Trump says, and what many are fantasizing, we're screwed for a long time.
The bottom line in all this is we started way behind in dealing with it. Not enough funding for the CDC, FDA and other agencies. Trump gutted them to save money for other projects and to make the economy LOOK better. He called it downsizing the Federal Government. Sounded great to many, but that's like us not buying any type of insurance. I could sure spend what I pay for insurance on more 'fun' stuff, but that would be dumb and irresponsible. And then he waisted a month or more doing NOTHING except calling it a hoax.
Do not disagree with opening things back up but feel it could easily be a reckless decision unless done very carefully. Just keep in mind that there is no proven process in place that fully contains the spread. You may well flatten the curve but you also risk another unless you can prove to me that you have that 'block' in place (vaccine?) Unless such is in place elderly, especially minorities, are going to be hit. Mass. is in trouble. Canada is ok except for QC and ON. Would not want to predict the political future for the QC leader! When government assures me, and I believe it, that proper testing, PPDs, nursing care, ventilators, swabs, are sufficient for all; then I will agree with opening things.
Bowfinatic- come on over to New York City and hang out with us
Quebec opened up residential construction sites yesterday, with many safety guidelines imposed of course.
The virus is mostly concentrated in the Montreal area. The top 2/3 of Quebec has relatively few cases - where I live, we have none... so far.
what do you expect when you follow the lead of an communist China & socialist Italy? China's people have less rights than most & Italy has one of the worst socialist healthcare systems. If anyone can be reassured by the government telling you they have all the supplies needed then I've got an island to sell you in the Florida Keys & man is it a steal of a deal. Whoever is scared, stay at home & leave more tags for the rest of us.
"Whoever is scared, stay at home & leave more tags for the rest of us."
Sounds good to me, but with that the policy should be, if/when you become ill or injured for any reason, more than say 50 or 100 miles from your home without a good reason to be there, you should be denied ANY medical treatments and told to go see your home medical facility. And if it's Covid you test positive for, you should be escorted to the nearest quarantine facility where you will pay room and board without receiving any medical treatment until you either recover or die. You shouldn't expect to clog up the facilities where you shouldn't be in the first place.
Hancock West's Link
Ziek...every president cuts costs somewhere in their budgets. Obama eviscerated our military...would you be so quick to judge him had we been attacked? No, you wouldn't have. How could Trump EVER HAVE KNOWN, how could ANY of us have known something like this was coming? We couldn't have any more than we would've known the day and time of a foreign attack. Sh!t happens, how you react to it makes a huge difference. The math doesn't lie and it says most of us will live if we get Covid.
Ziek, in the US right now if you have symptoms & are under the age of 60 they tell you to stay at home. Add all those people to the figures put out by the CDC & that changes things substantially. The very liberal trump hating USC did a study in LA County & they are estimating 50% of adults have already had this virus.
If you guys were over 60 and even slightly compromised you’d feel quite differently. Remember, one day God willing, you will arrive at that age too.
Made up or not an issue. Delusional
90% of those hospitalized have one or more underlying conditions. The most common are obesity, diabetes, hypertension, lung disease, and cardiovascular disease. Imagine what a big nothing burger this would be if we Americans weren't so fat and unhealthy.
Goelk I'm not denying its bad in New York. I work in Detroit and have friends with the virus. My daughter is one that has preexisting health conditions and would be higher at risk. We are being smart about our actions and I don't speak from a little bubble world
Bou.....exactly my point(s) just much better said!!
"every president cuts costs somewhere in their budgets."
True, but only after a proper risk/reward assessment. And if that's what he did, why is he blaming the previous administration for what he inherited when he had 3 years to improve it, but instead did just the opposite. Trump's risk/reward assessment basically revolves around him personally.
"How could Trump EVER HAVE KNOWN, how could ANY of us have known something like this was coming?"
Because ALL evidence pointed to it. It was NEVER at matter of 'if', only a matter of 'when'. That's like an uninsured property owner saying how could he have ever known his place could burn down while standing in the ashes. But your right, Trump is not smart enough to know much of anything, so I guess he has no blame or responsibility. I sure don't expect to him to admit to any. After all, he's perfect in everything he does. Just ask him.
Even when this is finally over, there WILL be another one. Our over population, concentrated in cities, global economy and mobility guarantees it. I just hope we are better prepared and it's not something more deadly. But then "hope" is a poor substitute for preparation.
Bowfinatic- LOL I don't speak from a little bubble world From my view, my daughter is a nurse at the local hospital , tells me this virus as no enemy. Young or old , it will kill the underlying health and healthy people of all ages. Everybody chemistry is different. True people with underlying health and people over 60 are at more risk, but do not kid yourself if you think you are healthy. The key is everybody chemistry is different. Im sure you are being smart about your actions and that good. I pray for everyone health and we as a nation come together and support each other in this time of need.
Goelk sorry I was not trying to infer you were in a bubble I was referring to myself with that comment Appreciate your last sentiments!
Ziek you blame trump, I blame China. Did he create the virus? Did China hide it from the international community to save face? Yes Did the WHO President collude with them? Yes Trump shutoff China early and he took a lot of heat for it but he saved lives. I could go on for days on how many scandals our past president had. Its just like the Russian Election Meddling, Obama was at the helm but Trump takes the blame.
"Not enough funding for the CDC, FDA and other agencies. Trump gutted them to save money for other projects..."
"And then he waisted a month or more doing NOTHING except calling it a hoax. "
Might want to fact check your claims, Ziek. CNN much?
As this thread shifts more nd more political its lifespan shortens. We are past the peak is most/many places.
We have promising treatment regiments in Remdisivir and Hydrocloraquine and it seems as if every phrama company is working on a vaccine. We know much more about how it's tranmitted and who is most at risk than a month ago and we have much better and faster tests and many more of them. In 2 large Calf tests, it appears that an awful lot of people have had it, and are now immune, if that trend continues we'll have widespread antibody/plama treatment as well.
The phase-in of opening the economy seems like a very reasonable approach, but by all means, if you're worried, stay inside and limit your exposure.
I'd like to think the thread is more informative than political.
I was listening to El Rushbo a bit ago and as usual he puts thing in perspective about this virus. We know with more testing you will get more positives showing up...that is expected and can be a good thing. Here's why. The person could have symptoms or none at all and never got sick yet was positive. Those folks in those two categories get added to the number of positive cases. Those numbers will continue to climb as more testing gets done. We know some of those who do get the virus will die. Using some random numbers to illustrate his point, if you took a snap shot on any particular day early on and we tested 10000 folks you will have a 1000 positive cases and 30 of those will die. The rest recovered or were asymptomatic. We have an early mortality rate of 3% of the positives or .3% of those tested.
Today if we have increased the testing rate 10 times that early number of 10000 as alot more test kits become available....we have now tested 100,000 folks. Of those, say 5000 tested positive and fatalities were consistent at 3% (the curve is flat), that means there were 150 virus related deaths. However because of the greatly increased testing rate we now have, the mortality rate has now dropped to .15% from .3% of those tested. Again...those are random numbers to illustrate what looks like is actually happening as we go forward.
In deck plate terms....as our testing goes up, (which it is) yet the curve stays flat (which it looks like it is), that suggests the virus was not as prolific nor as fatal against the population as the models had predicted. A bit of trivia.....according to the CDC, from March 1 - 28, the hospitalization rate of confirmed virus related cases is 4.6 per 100,000. You can do the math for the whole population and get an idea what it looks like for the country. There is always good news out there if you look for it.
"I was listening to El Rushbo a bit ago and as usual he puts thing in perspective about this virus."
You mean perspective by quotes like these?
"Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus … I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks."
"Why do you think this is “COVID-19”? This is the 19th coronavirus. They’re not uncommon."
Yep, Rush has a way with words...never-mind the truth or facts. Getting your news or health/science information from Rush Limbaugh...unbelievable.
"Might want to fact check your claims, Ziek. CNN much?"
No. But neither do I get it from the kingdom of fake news and asskissers - Fox. Nor from the stinkwell of social media.
So where do you get your news from Ziek ?
I usually don't care much for this type arguement but this one is interesting as it appears Ziek the Zorro ?? seems to be trapped News not from CNN not FOX And not Social media. What does that leave? Other mainstream media? That would be the same as CNN only with different letters
Give it a run Ziek. I'm intrigued to say the least
Mainly from watching the dumbass address the country with my own eyes. And how he equates bluster and bullying with leadership. And he gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Rush Limbaugh. WTF
About closing the border to China early on; what he did was only restrict non-US citizens from entering from China at the end of January. As if US citizens returning from those same infected areas couldn't be infected. Just a week earlier in answer to a question about if he was worried about a potential pandemic, he responded. "No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It's one person coming from China.... It's going to be just fine."
Just watch his lips. If they're moving he's either lying, calling someone names or blaming them, or praising himself.
And it's easy to just blame China's lack of candor and cooperation. But what if this had been a deliberate attack. Would you expect cooperation from the perpetrator, or would it be more appropriate to be prepared in any event?
That was disappointing.
Ziek might want to check the list of medal of freedom winners. Not a very sterling list
Ziek you should get that TDS treated, if not, it’ll put you in the high risk group for Covid-19.
The link shows not so good news for Hydroxychloroquine. My understanding is that there are some countries (Brazil, UK, ?) no longer using it for COVID-19. The sample size in the article was not very large, but the news was not good nonetheless.
Great answer Ziek. Your own eyes and ears...classic. Be ware of “news” sources who push propaganda and favorite tag line is don’t trust the media, science, academia, or your freely elected government.
Happygolucky- It just can’t be true because Fox News Tucker Carlson had a guest (who lied and said he was from Stanford school of medicine) that said hydroxychloroquine had a 100% cure rate. Within 24 hours Trump was pushing it and Laura Ingraham visited the White House to push the use of the drug. Fox News said it was the cure.
Right wingers who only get news from Hannity, Ingraham, Limbaugh. Levin, etc. are like Christian scientists. They aren’t crazy...the rest of the world is.
KS. Zieks stumble through answer sucked. Really bad Not that it mattered but he did NOT get out of the box. Terribly disappointing but matters not one bit. World keeps spinning
Cheap shot at Christians. Lots of Christian's that are scientist. Good ones too.
But it's always cool to see what color the cats coat is. Thank you for that
If you think Christian Science is...oh never mind. God gave you a brain. Please use it.
Looks like the CF is up and running fine. :^)
"No. But neither do I get it from the kingdom of fake news and asskissers - Fox. Nor from the stinkwell of social media."
So where did you get the false claims above? A Biden campaign add?
Ziek I'm sure your an eagle scout right? be prepared. Sounds like you have it figured out where Trump has gone wrong and made all the mistakes in his term. Were ready for you to step up and run for president because it sounds like you can do a better job.
You sure are an angry individual, Ziek. Shoot your TV and take a walk; it'll do ya good. You can even wear your spongebob mask mommy made for you if it'll make you feel safer..
It's hard being a Liberal these days with Trump as the President and Joe Biden as your best hope to replace him. You'd be grumpy too, well actually you'd probably just decide not to be a Liberal so ... there is that.
Imagine how difficult it would be if being invested in the: "COVID-19 is the worst thing ever and it's mostly Trump's fault, and I hope this economy tanks, at least until November": is your best plan.
This could continue to be a useful thread as it pertains to the Original Topic. Which is important to a lot of bowsiters who travel to hunt. But not if the CF'ers take it over completely, and get it nuked.
You're right, sorry...so please let us know when they open the border...I got walleyes to whack! Thanks!
No walleyes up here. They all died from COVID-19.
Stay home. ;)
Fine, I'll stay home until the blueberries ripen, but all bets are off after that!!
No thread that gets over 75 posts ever gets better or more focused with age and length. This one is a proof source of that theorem
I Spoke to a guy we have hunted with in New Brunswick. He's hoping that he gets some indication that things will open by early June. If so, he hopes to get a couple of weeks of bear hunts. I guess he'd have to start baiting heavily in early May so that's right around the corner ... probably not looking likely.
^...hmmm. Here's some outliers to that theorem.;-)
"No thread that gets over 75 posts ever gets better or more focused with age and length. This one is a proof source of that theorem"
Planning on being in New Brunswick last week of June, all this hype I’ll pay no attention to until 1st of June, then I’ll call and see what’s going on, until then, shooting daily and preparation being made; “... and why take ye thought for tomorrow...”
Good call Tobpitbull. Hope you have a great hunt. My buddy is doing the same, booked earlier in May and rescheduled for late June. Praying you guys get to do your hunts. Keep your head up!
Man, I went and caught a whack of suckers with my daughter on Sunday. They were running up some rapids. Went again with my brother and all our kids yesterday and it was taped off. CO's guarding the place. Shut it down due to COVID. Too much traffic. Sucks.
^^^ Yeah, pretty silly that people can be trusted to stay six feet apart at Home Depot, the liquor and pot stores, but not out in the woods, campgrounds or lakes.
GEEZ Adam. That's insane. Sad how this is being handled. Thats out of line!
Home Depot, the liquor
Where I am the home depot is closed pick up only same with liquor ! Went today and got a couple bottles evryone was standing in line at least six feet apart outside the pickup window and if you get closer people are more likely to snap at you now ! Not sure about the pot store but my wife keeps telling me I need to go get some ! Not sure why she thinks that lol
Actually, considering how the people stacked up, and with current rules it isn't that ridiculous. My two buddies, my daughter and I were on one side of the river, and there were about 35 people on the other. Once we started scooping tons of fish and they weren't, it took no time to get surrounded shoulder to shoulder by white pailers. They don't give you any personal space normally and they didn't change their approach now either. It pisses me off more someone horning in on my spot then the danger of COVID, but either way it happens. Hate to say it, but it was very much a certain demographic...oh well, now they ruined it for everyone.
Pickling the suckers Mr Adam?
Our great Prime Minister has just announced he will open border to Asylum Seekers only. As if we can afford that. Hopefully Manitoba will be welcoming as they cross to Emerson!!
Asylum from states with no spring bear season I hope
Adam, Noah and I checked that spot out on the way back from ice fishing. One guys was in the water dip netting with a mask on. It was going to be sooner or later that it was going to get shut down. Lots of Mennos there too.
VERY proud to say not one Liberal was elected in Saskatchewan so we can take zero blame for the idiot PM that pops out of his burrow every day and throws more money around to groups that are likely to vote for him in gratitude. If people had any idea what it costs to get rid of those “asylum seekers” that only want a government to take care of them (and 98% of their claims of persecution are totally false) Canadians would cheerfully volunteer their own money and effort to build a wall. Trudeau is an embarrassment.
Lmao don’t hold back Mr. Nye tell us how you really feel!!!
Most that seek asylum in Southern Manitoba come from Minneapolis Area. No joke!! Mostly from Somalia.
Okay Rookie I will take your advice and lose the filter from now on.
I have never disliked a Prime Minister so much.
Everything he says, does, or represents goes completely against everything I live for or believe in.
The only thing we can expect from him about the border opening, or who he lets in (certainly not hunters), is to do whatever it is that's absolutely his usual absurd politically correct procedure, and also whatever it is that will get him and his ridiculous party votes in the next election.
Many of our Seniors, life long Canadians are dying in Old Age homes in the East due to the China Virus. But yet he spends so much bringing in new Canadians!! Feeding them, giving them a monthly income and jobs.
I'm watching the Prez's virus update on Fox News. Some new information from scientific tests were posted. For those that weren't or can't watch the Prez's Virus update, I took these screen shots. It's great news and more supporting evidence on the importance of being outdoors in the sun vs being confined in the house. The second screen shot is just best practices but good to reinforce. This is specifically about the droplets coming out of your mouth when you cough or breath. One is the life limit of the droplets (virus) in the air and the other is the droplets (virus) on a surface and the effect the sun, heat and humidity has on the virus.
Holy crap ...... he sounds just like Obummer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and a bunch of the liberal Dems that are still in power ..... "doesn't mater if it's good for the country or not ..... keep me in power at all costs"!
Rob, Ken, Spike........In NNY where I used to live, Old Folks homes positive tests are jumping (just south of Cornwall). I now live in a very RED state and hate illegal immigration, On the other hand we have so many welfare that we have to bring in workers for crop harvests. Biden and the liberal media here are tops on my crap list!!!!
The pics didn't seem to above post....
No A/C in the office this summer!
BC just put hunting and fishing on the list of Essential Services for residents. Still have to hunt “local” and exercise protocol for distancing.
My personal opinion is the border is not likely to open to non-essential travel until at least July unfortunately. P.S. Trudeau is an assclown. :)
I'm with Rob on this I need surgery bad and cant even get in hospital let alone travel to another country
KSFantlander, you flip flop like the wind. Just like your science that says The corona virus wasn't here before initially thought. Ready to say FALSE yet?