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Matt

I kept saying that they weren't going to reduce the hunting pressure in these units by going draw. If anything 6,500 is an increase and guys are now going to hunt it harder because they think they have a special tag.

Even ML E/S were cut severely

It's also another incremental step towards all elk tags going to all draw, which I know a lot of people don't want, but would help management of elk and help out CO's ridiculous point problem.

Bowhunters weren't taking enough cows to be the problem or the solution to any herd dynamics.

Any crowding issues it improves will be equally cancelled out by increased pressure in remaining OTC units.

That actually I like. The sooner we get the herd back up the sooner we can get back to normal

The one current bad thing is that first rifle bull harvest was dismal last year (8% compared to 20-25% in the past). Bulls per 100 cows is At 16/100 and expected to drop to 13/100 next year!

So I doubt I will even get a tag there for a few years. I would not like my odds of harvesting a bull with a bow or rifle. The cow hunts should be great! But you will have to spend Multiple points just to draw one!

Based on CPw’s elk population data, those units are over population objectives.

Why limit bowhunters at all?

If bowhunters are limited, why are rifle hunters not limited in 2nd and 3rd season? They certainly have a much greater impacts/kill than bowhunters...

The reason that I heard from the CPw was that they were not getting good elk recruitment. Basically, the calves were not surviving the year to reach what they consider adulthood.

Poor recruitment was blamed on the bowhunters messing with the elk rut.

Their solution of limiting bowhunters with bull only and cow only tags will have zero effect on the underlying issue and makes absolutely no sense.

Are elk calves are being born (YES) Are elk calves being killed before they survive for one year (YES) Are bowhunters, muzzle loader or rifle hunters killing all the calves before they survive one year (NO) Are predators killing calves from the moment they hit the ground (YES)

There is obviously a predator problem in SW Colorado! Significantly reduce the predators and the elk numbers will rebound.

Even with reductions in first and fourth rifle tags, more bull and cow elk will be killed in any one of the 4 rifle seasons than in archery season.

Since the elk population will be over objective, they can issue piles of cow tags!

Possibility even open an early rifle cow elk season in September to get the herd back in control!

Perfect sense. See?

If the point was improving the herd numbers or dynamics, this move won't. We just weren't a big enough factor to be a solution even if they cancelled all archery season. If the point was to reduce crowding, it won't. We had 51,000 bowhunters in CO last year. I would be surprised if that number averages below that over the next decade unless they go to a 100% draw. Even then, I would bet they have a similar total number. Moving a guy from a ridge in the SW to a ridge in the Flattops isn't a net reduction in crowding.

Add to that the late summer “non-consumption” recreationists hiking, biking, aspen looky-loos, camping, “wildlife watching”, etc. Oh, and don’t forget to throw in a bike or foot race or two or three...

Getting to the point you better bring your own rock to have a place to stand and bowhunt in this state!

Hell, the woods seem more crowded in “bow” season than rifle season!

The radical changes were pushed and implemented based on the 2018 data and a few very vocal and well connected people (who obviously hate bowhunters) before they got the 2019 elk population estimates.

Their model estimated a % growth of the herd due to their reductions and additional restrictions for the tag numbers that showed an increase in the post hunt 2020 populations.

Would be interesting to know when they last performed a good elk census in that area....

Would also be interesting to see their “population objectives” over time...

Matt

Best thing would be to go all limited and that would prevent the massive build up in points as guys bank points and hunt otc. Prolly will mean a few or many won’t be able to hunt a year or two in CO and shift otc pressure to other states.

In listening to the commission meeting, they said they gave bowhunters exactly the same number of cow tags as rifle, and the bull quota was set to take it to prior year levels. Archery cow success rate is around 2%, rifle cow in some seasons was over 50%. With new rifle season structure, elk and deer will be massacred.

I have not looked in the brochure to see if the cow tags are B or A. If it is an A tag, total hunters will be more, B tag is likely less.

As I was scrolling through the quota recommendations, what I found really odd was they retained either sex archery licenses good only on private lands in quite a few units and set the quota at 1250? I understand the need to control game damage, I understand the need to move elk off refuges, but I also understand leasing and locking out average hunters. Seems like the lease value of private land just went up in these units.

If you listened to the commission meeting, Garcia once again said CPW needs to look at limiting Grand County. GMU 18 & 28 will be next.

They just don't get the two bigger issues at all which is the impact to the remaining OTC areas, and no one will apply as a first choice due to preference points held.

JMO -This wasn't about herd health, it wasn't about crowding, it was about archers being limited and getting bull only tags.

Hell, we should just do this for the whole state! What a great idea to make all archery tags limited and bull only! Too dang many bowhunters out there shooting all the elk and getting in the way of the real hunters out there in September with their rifles! Of course we will need to keep OTC unlimited Rifle tags in all the current OTC units!

Yep, that is what is best for the resource!

So glad we supported increasing fees to CPw! They needed all that extra money to be able to make such awesome improvements to the hunting seasons and make it all better!

Morons.

It would be a lot easier to just say “Look, archery and muzzy is already limited. Sorry but we need to limit rifle also.”

Everyone that purchased an OTC tag previously, now has to send in an app ($$$) --- sounds to me like it's a money maker for CO.

If it was truly about 'Limiting' there wouldnt be 6515 bull tags available

Thus, they are trying to build herd numbers by severely limiting cow tags for ALL seasons, and are basically OTC for bulls for ALL seasons knowing that they are already low in number.

Sad, but income from tag sales (money) rules in this deal. That is a fact. I won't be one of the 6500 this year

Hey, I have a cabin there, And I love that area. Just can’t see spending $700 on a bull tag there presently. And that’s a group of 4 of us that won’t be buying a tag for there this year. For those that like 8% odds, power to ya. Will be surprised if there aren’t some left overs or a lot of turn backs

Matt