Contributors to this thread:
80% vs. 85% let off?
I recently got a bow that has 85% let off, normally I shoot 80%. Is there any differences that may arise other than holding weight? I went out and shot the other day with the 85% and it seemed I was all over the place compared to how I normally shoot perfromance wise. Is this to be expected or just a change I'll have to get used to?
Tournament archers use lower let-offs because they are more accurate than with higher let-offs. Your observation, in general, is to be expected. Also some states (i.e. Colorado) and P&Y have a maximum let-off of 80%. If your state doesn't have a maximum of let-off rule and you are never going to enter an animal into the P&Y, then it doesn't matter.
My state Montana has the 80% rule as well. I had to special order 80% let off mods. It just blew my mind about being all over the place
Okay so who comes out in the wilds, and draws your bow, and checks the let off, come on...................
80percent let off is now the max for P&Y? When did they fold and go up to 80? Why have a limit any longer, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I guess making it easier is the in thing.
85% letoff? HA! This is why a compound bow is WAAAY closer to a crossbow than a stickbow is! I mean, if you shoot a compgun you're only 15% away from a crossgun. With a stickbow you're 100%!
Just for the record......I don't care WHAT kind of bow you choose to shoot, just as long as it shoots an arrow which kills with a sharp blade causing shock via blood loss, the arrow is propelled with energy stored in drawn limbs, and there absolutely no "BOOM/EXPLOSION" to be heard throughout the entire process.
Ok I might be wrong on the 85%...my bad!
You don't have to draw the bow its stamped right there on the mod...
I don’t like letting down a bow with a higher letoff. You really have to almost push it forward, then when it goes it wants to go!
P&Y folded when the Beaty buck was shot with an 80% let off Mathews. My zmax and ultra max were special ordered with 65% cams.
“ Okay so who comes out in the wilds, and draws your bow, and checks the let off, come on...................”
Because if you don’t get caught it’s not really cheating/breaking the law....
Dopey, me - Here I keep thinking that the regs are supposed to apply to everyone equally....
If you have good back tension and a solid back wall, I don’t see how let-off should affect your accuracy.
5% of #70 is 3 1/2 pounds. You pantywaists can’t hold 14 WHOLE pounds so you need to cut it to ten and a half? At that rate you should cut the crossgun ladies some slack because their string rifles weigh as much as you’re holding anyway.... But hell, as long as you’re not gonna get checked anyway, you may as well take an xbow...
GF I agree, but again, who comes up with these rules. Who cares what the let off is?
I shoot a compound with 75 percent let off, it just feels right. The back up is 65 percent, which I also like. Now the next guy shoots 85 percent, so what......
I also do not understand minimum weight laws. A youth compound at 30lbs, with a good coc and right arrow, is going to store more energy than a 40 lbs (legal) recurve, and that is, IF the archer is even pulling the 40pounds,,,,,,,
I know our 35 lb minimum draw weight law, was established in the late 60's, before compounds even were produced..... just sayin..................
There is currently no let-off limit for P&Y Club Entry.
I find it easier to execute a good shot with 80 vs 85. Makes it easier to pull thru the shot and not punch the trigger
There are a few guarantees in life. Death, taxes and the fact that GF will post in every thread as the smartest man in the room.
A crossbow is only 15% more let off !
80 is ethical. 85 is completely unethical.
80%? 85%? Geez get a crossgun. Try my one and only compound. It's a 1995 Browning Mirage FPS. Either 45% or 60% letoff,60-80#. Or a 0% letoff bow.
It is funny how little the guys who always bring up crossbows during let off discussions actually know about them. The ability to cock a crossbow is not let off. On the other hand, some crossbow cams have let off (actual let off, not the made up notion that some of you are so enamored with) to ease cocking and improve trigger pull.
Work is done with a cocking mechanism, not a human arm.
Just curious redheadlover....why in the world did you upgrade to a 1995 Browning? If you were a real hunter you'd still be shooting a Quadraflex.
You can try my 1969 kodiak hunter by Fred bear, no let off.
Some o’ you boys need to grow a sense of humor...
But maybe I just cut a little too close to the bone sometimes....
It's not a sense of humor issue GF. Let's just say your mental prowess and expertise in all things wear thin on the masses.
"Why do people who know the least know it the loudest?" - George Carlin
Better than a Mathews. Or a Hoyt. Or a (any new compound). But I do prefer my 67 1/2 Kodiak Hunter at 52# or my 66 Kodiak at 55#.
I would prefer a 50% let off or even a 33% like my old bear Alaskan. I currently shoot a 65% Matthews Lx but also most hints with a 0% Bear kodiak
Using a recurve or long bow is much tougher than a compound bow. Using a compound bow 40 years ago with 50% let off, no rangefinder, no release etc. was way tougher than using a compound bow today. Advances in technology are definitely narrowing the gap between using a compound bow versus a rifle or crossbow. Maybe if advances continue states will change archery seasons to traditional archery equipment only, maybe with exceptions for allowing 60+ year olds to use compound bows (this has nothing to do with the fact that I turn 60 this year - HA!)
Not 100% I agree with you inside of 20-25 yards; it’s just all of the “Instinctive” BS that has been sold since that one book came out. If you take a second - or even just few hundredths of a second once your anchor becomes consistent - to make sure that your arrow is on the line, then the only things that will keep you from hitting that line are your form and your tune. Learning the elevation takes a little longer ;)
And of course, you can’t loiter at full draw the way you can with a compound... LOL
Modern compounds are really easy to use, but a buddy of mine bought a compound about 30 years ago (50% and a tab) and he was grouping at about 4” at 20 yards within about the first hour.
I had bought a compound about 8-10 years ago and found that my absolute precision at known distance went way up, but my 3D scores at unmarked ranges were only a little better inside of 20 and were actually quite a bit worse as soon as I started wondering if my #1 pin was still the right one to use. Because an 8” group right below the spine is a helluvalot better than a 2” group over or under the whole target.
GF, one of the huge advantages is the "loitering" at full draw. If you have an elk coming in and you can draw back and hold with no problem for over a minute it's a really big advantage. My son changed to using a long-bow, and I watched him as some bulls got within 20 yards, but he couldn't draw back, or when he did they bolted. Then he switched back to a compound the next year, and killed a 6 point half an hour into his first day of hunting that year. Now he is back to using the longbow for the challenge.
"I had bought a compound about 8-10 years ago and found that my absolute precision at known distance went way up, but my 3D scores at unmarked ranges were only a little better inside of 20 and were actually quite a bit worse as soon as I started wondering if my #1 pin was still the right one to use. Because an 8” group right below the spine is a helluvalot better than a 2” group over or under the whole target."
Sights aren't a requirement on a compound and if you're a gap shooter, regardless of bow type, don't you still need to be good at range estimation in order to hit your target?
"...........but my 3D scores at unmarked ranges were only a little better inside of 20 and were actually quite a bit worse as soon as I started wondering if my #1 pin was still the right one to use."
It was pretty amusing to watch people shoot the 3 yarder at Redding last year.
I thought real men can hold a trade bow at full draw for at least a minute?
Disclaimer, I shoot 80 percent let-off, lol.
If you shoot a hard gap, you have to be as good at range estimation as you need to be if you shoot pins. And the slower your arrow, the better you need to be. To be honest, I am a TERRIBLE estimator of distance.
I had a compound in the mid ‘80s that I shot quite well barebow with a string blur, except that the DL was set about 1 1/2” too long and I never got the same velocity twice unless I was RIGHT ON with my anchor.
And for a long time (over 30 years at least, I’ve figured that the ultimate compromise is probably a fast compound with a peep and a vertical wire - combined with lots and lots of practice at unknown distances until you can compensate for distance without thinking about it. (Because again, as soon as I think about the range, I may as well let down.)
I just prefer shooting a bow that weighs a pound and a half and lets me use my fingers. So I shoot gapstinctive on the longer targets and I just shoot at the close ones. But to be honest, the more I practice between 20 and 40, the worse I do at short range, because it’s hard to believe how low I really do have to hold on a 10-yard shot....
Long and short, though, I found that at the ranges I’m willing to shoot while bowhunting, I’m just plain more effective with a stickbow than a compound. But I also have a 20-some acre club 10 minutes away with about 50 3D targets scattered around the courses, so I can go “stumping” whenever I want and I can keep score as a reality check.
There's less string tension at 85%, which can make it easier to be inconsistent.
The more we give ourselves all of the great technical advantages, like ever-increasing letoff, etc, the more I wonder how long it will be before the non-hunting public starts to weigh in on what they think is fair, whether our lengthy seasons are justified, etc.
So, it is your opinion the non-hunting public understands the concept of let-off and has concerns over it? There are people who have posted on this thread who don't even understand it.
I've been waiting 50 years for my seasons to be shortened because of technology. They better hurry up, I don't have 50 years left.
There has been the addition of quota seasons, drawings and of course point creep for some species. Of course there are other variables.
“ I've been waiting 50 years for my seasons to be shortened because of technology. They better hurry up, I don't have 50 years left.”
So the fact that CO was talking about putting basically ALL archery Elk tags on a draw doesn’t bother you???
I think most here have a midwestern whitetail deer mentality.
About fifty years ago my Wisconsin tag was good for a deer OR a bear. Now it takes about ten years to draw a bear tag.
"About fifty years ago my Wisconsin tag was good for a deer OR a bear. Now it takes about ten years to draw a bear tag."
Which technology caused that change?
This may explain it Matt...
Riiiiight.... Because Archery season was SO much more popular before releases were legal and before laser rangefinders were on the market and when compounds maxed out at about 210 FPS.... I remember now.
"This may explain it Matt..."
Ah, english lessons from Al Gore. Got it. The sentences are formed with words and have subjects, verbs, predicates and stuff, but impart no actual meaning.
Perhaps the bears reduced their hunting pressure voluntarily.
The ease of bow hunting with new technology, with the resultant large increase of bow hunters starting about 1970 was a non factor in hunting pressure, is that right? Some say the new technology in bow hunting was responsible for expanding bow hunter numbers, are some now saying this is false?
Technology increased hunter recruitment beginning about 1970, that pressured some game numbers. Same thing happened with muzzleloaders becoming in lines.
Recruitment was great, but it did it did have consequences. Recruitment is now declining, which will have negative and positive consequences.
I think if technology has no impact as some say, the scoped crossbow debate is null and void. Scoped crossbow use should be expanded for all species and in all states during archery seasons. They will have zero impact. "Zero" is what some are saying here. Scoped crossbows should be a great weapon for elk hunting, same with inlines during special muzzleloading seasons. After all, there will be no impact on ease of harvest, as some here say.