Judging moose at this time of year?
Moose
Mornin' guys,
I'm not well educated on judging moose antlers, especially in the early stages of their growth. I photographed this moose 2 days ago in Colorado. Can you moose experts tell me if this is a young or old bull? And what characteristics determine your answer?
Thanks, Matt
No clue but I assume they’re like elk or deer. A big animals is a big animal, no matter where they are in their growth. That doesn’t jump off the page as a “big” animal. I was talking to CNELK yesterday and he said moose lose their antlers much earlier than elk, so I would be curious to know when moose antlers finish growing. That might help answer your Question.
John,
That was my first impression, as well...young bull with so-so antlers. But then I looked at his body and face, and started thinking he's old and possibly on the downhill slide. He also appears to have some kind of mange going on.
Matt
Younger bulls will have deeper valleys between their palm points, and not as many.
Thats not an old bull, but he will score because he has at least 2 brow tines on each antler [required to get that palm length measurement]
Next age class up. That back one will score better. Be hard not to pass on either one of these
Obviously look for a big body, sway back, etc...one thing about bigger, older bulls is their antlers beams tend to droop before the paddle begins... also look for big bulls feeding early in the summer and bedding near willow-choked parks during the day. They are often bedded just outside the open areas in the shade.
Thanks, guys, the pics help a lot.
So, does the bull in my pic have a skin/hide problem, or is he just shedding his winter coat?
Matt
Shedding his coat. It's called molting.
Does the size/length of the dewlap, or lack thereof, provide any clues about age?
Matt
No most deals freeze off In the winter.What to look for is big wide paddles split fronts lots of points
GG, Not sure on the Shiras moose as much as the Alaskan, but we did use the bell as somewhat of an age estimator. Most all of the more mature bulls have had the long skinny portion of their dewlap/bell freeze off and most all of younger bulls still were sporting it. Notice all of these younger bulls had the long dangly bell.
Here is a middle aged bull my brother shot. Notice the longer bell.
And here is a fully mature bull with the rounded bell
Dewlap is a helpful indicator. Longer points (especially near top of rack) usually means a younger bull. Antler sag near the base of the antler means a big bull....but I have only seen that in A/Y bulls and Canadian bulls. It would take a helluva Shiras to exhibit that. Body size is another indicator....and the best way to describe it is to say that you'll know a big bull when you see it.
Thanks for the education, fellas.
The bull in my pic is currently living behind my condo in Winter Park. Hopefully he'll stick around, and I'll be able to monitor his antler growth over the course of the summer.
Matt
Here are a few photos from my 2012 CO hunt.
Hunting early in the bow season, you should be able to pattern at least a couple of bulls, IF you put in the time over the summer. They won't be wondering looking for cows until mid to late Sept. and the younger bulls will start first. Before that, they generally stay in the same area, or travel route. For a higher scoring bull, you need to know what to look for. Study the score sheet and understand the measurements. Dewlap doesn't tell you much of anything, except they can look pretty cool.
First bull found, we named Piney Bull. He traveled a big loop that included our campsite drainage. He was the "prettiest" bull we found.
First bull found, we named Piney Bull. He traveled a big loop that included our campsite drainage. He was the "prettiest" bull we found.
Later that same day (July 24) we located this guy. We could usually find him in one of 3 drainages. We named him Moniger Bull, for the first place we found him.
Later that same day (July 24) we located this guy. We could usually find him in one of 3 drainages. We named him Moniger Bull, for the first place we found him.
We started scouting in July. On our first outing we found several moose, including the two bulls I targeted. Over the course of the summer, I got MANY photos of them.
Here are two more of Moniger Bull on 8/24. Notice the thin bell.
Just to be clear, I didn't draw a moose tag, nor have I ever hunted moose. I'd love to, but I'm afraid it may never happen in this lifetime. I'm just trying to learn more about them, since I routinely see them in and around Winter Park.
Chad, that's cool you have one living around your place too. And they do look very similar to each other. I did learn one thing last weekend. They have absolutely no fear of my ferocious golden doodles. ;-)
Matt
These two are Piney bull on 9/3 & 9/4. He had a very symmetrical rack with deep front forks that looked great, but wouldn't score very well. He also had a huge "mail-sack" bell. Still trying to decide which one to shoot when the season opened.
Great pics, Ziek! Did you end up killing either of those bulls?
Matt
This is Moniger Bull opening morning. My wife had eyes on Piney Bull at the same time, so it IS very possible to pattern them very successfully. Adding 'season choice' tags is just going to screw up early archery season worse than ML already does.
These two youngsters entertained us from camp on 9/11 before we left.
They don't seem to be a particularly difficult animal to get within bow range of, once you locate em.
Moniger is a beauty, Ziek. Congrats!
Matt
Great bull Ziek! Did you ever post a story?
Matt, if you are in an area where they see people (most of CO), if you act like a tourist and wear regular clothes they generally aren't alarmed. They don't like guys in camo sneaking up on them. One guy I helped had his wife stand about 70 yards away out in the open and act like she was taking photos, while he snuck around behind and shot it at 20 yards with his longbow.
Anybody use any bracketing with ear width like mule deer?
Lou, I doubt it's the camo that bothers them. More likely it's the difference in body language between a tourist and a hunter that they pick up on. Either way, they seem like a stupid simple animal to hunt once you locate one. I ran into them often while elk hunting in unit 18. They usually strolled right by me within easy bow range, as if they knew I didn't have a tag.
Matt
I sold the story to Bowhunter Mag. It appeared in the August 2013 Big Game Special. They also bought the photo of 'Piney Bull' (the one above, where he's eyeing me) and used it as a small black & white at the top of several pages. The wind was blowing pretty hard that day, and his dewlap was blown back against his chest. He was less than 10 yards away when I took that photo. A short version also appears in the Third Edition of Colorado's Biggest Bucks and Bulls.
I wish I had a better "hero" shot. When we first tried to move him for a pose on that damn mountain side, he flipped completely over and one of his tines caught my pant cuff. It tossed me up in the air and I came down on top of him. Luckily, not on the antlers. He almost got his revenge.
Dang guys, this is the greatest thread of the year! I drew an Idaho bull tag and I’ve been soaking up all the moose info I can and this is great. I’m hunting 12-1 in the Lolo Zone and going all in for this hunt this year. I’m heading out for my first scouting trip later this month. My unit is super thick, but hopefully I can snap a few pics and post to this thread to see what you guys think of some early season bulls. If anyone has any info on the unit, maybe past bear or elk hunts please shoot me a pm. Super excited. Keith
At this time of the year I’d look for split brow tines and wide paddle. Width of the antlers. The scouting really doesn’t get good until late July in my opinion.
I’ll also say that moose know difference between hikers and being hunted. Definitely not as spooky as say elk but when hunting them they don’t always just stand there either
A very old bull, not high scoring but about as old as they get.
A very old bull, not high scoring but about as old as they get.
I agree with the wide and drooping main beam as one indicator. And I don’t think they deserve the “stupid” reputation
I just don’t think they are afraid of much.
On an even playing field they can hold their own against anything.
Holy be-jesus Ermine is that Colorado bull???!!!!!!
Altitude that is a cool bull
Adventurewriter- yes that is a Colorado Bull. I was fortunate to arrow it.
Ermine that is fantastic!!!! Great bulls
Wow, heck of a Shiras bull
Justin, what did that think score? Did you enter him into P&Y? If so, did you get invited to panel? Looks like that thing would be towards the top for bow killed Shiras.
The Ermine bull has it all. Good front palms, not just long points. Long paddles are key for a good score with about 20 or so points. Paddle width will be there on older bulls, as will spread. I started scouting Mid July last year and found many good bulls. I was done hunting on opening day.
Got a pic, Harvester?
I've often wondered how they score moose antlers. It's becoming clearer now, thanks to you guys.
Matt
Grey Ghost. And the number if points counts towards score. However the length of the points does not matter. The biggest measurement is the paddle length to the browtines
Since the OP asked about judging, maybe we should mention scores. Scoring a moose is not as straight forward as some animals. My bull was scored by a really experienced measurer - a guy who has participated in several panel scoring events. He came up with 180 3/8 final score. The P & Y panel (which he was also participating in, but wasn't allowed to even be consulted on my bull since he was the original measurer) came up with 176 0/8. However, the B & C panel measurers agreed with the original score. So it is listed in each organizations record books with a different score. It came in 3rd at each convention though, in 2013.
Pretty bull, Tom!! And the Chuck Adams pose makes him look HUGE. ;-)
So, basically you look for long, wide paddles that extend all the way to the brows, with a bunch of short-isn points?
Matt
The length measurement is subject to some interpretation, but basically goes along the back of the antler from a valley at the top of the palm to a valley at the end of the brow, that is most nearly parallel with the inside of the palm, which is of course, not straight to begin with. If, as in the case with many Shira's moose, the brow is not forked or palmated, that length is taken at the mid length of the brow point. In other words, if scorers can't agree when it's on the bench, a hunter can only say for sure that it's pretty big, or not.
I got curious enough to Google it up.
Matt
Almost as crazy as caribou for figuring out the “on-the-hoof” score!
Hell, I just want a tag!
Would be hard to pass up any Shiras that looked like a moose, much less a bomber/gacker like Justin got...
Will keep on keeping on and hope for a tag I’m in Colorado before the wolves are brought in, they kill all the moose and the tags are reduced back to 1990’s numbers...
I'm right there with you Tavis. I just want a tag before I'm too old to pack the beast out.
Matt
Interesting, Brandon. I wouldn't have guessed the first one made BC, but I'm still learning.
Matt
I had heard that Shiras making BC is one of the easier animals...
My bull that I killed 48" wide 4x4 with no fronts (spikes) up front scored 136 py if he had fronts upper 150s.
8/23/18 while scouting for my wife's cow hunt.
8/23/18 while scouting for my wife's cow hunt.
Again on 8/23 later in the day. Practicing a stalk.
Again on 8/23 later in the day. Practicing a stalk.
The bull that was tending the cow she shot opening morning. Several times he was standing practically right over her while she tried to get a shot at the cow.
The bull that was tending the cow she shot opening morning. Several times he was standing practically right over her while she tried to get a shot at the cow.
Incredible moose photos. I really hope I can find something like those. Wow!
Well guys, I’m heading up to my unit in Idaho tonight for a week of scouting. I couldn’t be more excited and hopefully I can put eyes on a few bulls and hopefully post a couple pics of midsummer bulls to this thread.
