Is this website pro Trump?
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
rodb 20-Jun-20
Ucsdryder 20-Jun-20
grossklw 20-Jun-20
KSflatlander 20-Jun-20
Glunt@work 20-Jun-20
Glunt@work 20-Jun-20
Bowfreak 20-Jun-20
Catscratch 20-Jun-20
midwest 20-Jun-20
Old School 20-Jun-20
Missouribreaks 20-Jun-20
Ambush 20-Jun-20
Pat Lefemine 20-Jun-20
tobywon 20-Jun-20
t-roy 20-Jun-20
Spiral Horn 20-Jun-20
midwest 20-Jun-20
Missouribreaks 20-Jun-20
TD 20-Jun-20
Spiral Horn 20-Jun-20
Pig Doc 20-Jun-20
Highlife 20-Jun-20
Arrowflinger 20-Jun-20
BOHNTR 20-Jun-20
K Cummings 20-Jun-20
grizz 20-Jun-20
4nolz@work 20-Jun-20
stick slinger 20-Jun-20
Ollie 20-Jun-20
Ranger rick 20-Jun-20
elkmtngear 20-Jun-20
Jaquomo 20-Jun-20
ki-ke 20-Jun-20
Treeline 20-Jun-20
JohnMC 20-Jun-20
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JL 20-Jun-20
DanaC 20-Jun-20
K Cummings 20-Jun-20
elknailer 20-Jun-20
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freeglee 20-Jun-20
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badbull 20-Jun-20
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drycreek 20-Jun-20
WV Mountaineer 20-Jun-20
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rodb 21-Jun-20
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RIT 21-Jun-20
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Pig Doc 22-Jun-20
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KSflatlander 22-Jun-20
Old School 22-Jun-20
JohnMC 22-Jun-20
midwest 22-Jun-20
JL 22-Jun-20
'Ike' (Phone) 22-Jun-20
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Wild Bill 22-Jun-20
KSflatlander 22-Jun-20
Old School 22-Jun-20
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Catscratch 22-Jun-20
JL 22-Jun-20
Trax 22-Jun-20
Pig Doc 22-Jun-20
splitlimb13 22-Jun-20
Matt 22-Jun-20
RMhunter 22-Jun-20
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ground hunter 22-Jun-20
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ki-ke 23-Jun-20
midwest 23-Jun-20
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Old School 23-Jun-20
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Old School 23-Jun-20
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KSflatlander 23-Jun-20
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yooper89 23-Jun-20
TD 23-Jun-20
Trax 23-Jun-20
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sleepyhunter 23-Jun-20
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DanaC 23-Jun-20
JL 23-Jun-20
DanaC 23-Jun-20
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JohnMC 23-Jun-20
Grey Ghost 23-Jun-20
Pig Doc 23-Jun-20
Pig Doc 23-Jun-20
DanaC 23-Jun-20
KSflatlander 23-Jun-20
Pig Doc 23-Jun-20
Grey Ghost 23-Jun-20
KSflatlander 23-Jun-20
Pig Doc 23-Jun-20
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Tonybear61 23-Jun-20
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Bake 25-Jun-20
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JohnMC 25-Jun-20
buci 313 25-Jun-20
DanaC 25-Jun-20
'Ike' (Phone) 25-Jun-20
BowSniper 25-Jun-20
Trax 25-Jun-20
TD 25-Jun-20
lamb 25-Jun-20
Trax 25-Jun-20
'Ike' (Phone) 25-Jun-20
Trax 25-Jun-20
Ambush 25-Jun-20
Bowbender 26-Jun-20
sleepyhunter 26-Jun-20
Shug 26-Jun-20
splitlimb13 27-Jun-20
splitlimb13 27-Jun-20
3rd Degree 27-Jun-20
Thisismyhandle 28-Jun-20
Tonybear61 28-Jun-20
Will tell 28-Jun-20
Tilzbow 28-Jun-20
1boonr 28-Jun-20
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Ziek 28-Jun-20
Glunt@work 28-Jun-20
Ziek 28-Jun-20
Annony Mouse 28-Jun-20
PECO 28-Jun-20
Annony Mouse 28-Jun-20
splitlimb13 28-Jun-20
DanaC 28-Jun-20
JL 28-Jun-20
Trax 28-Jun-20
JL 28-Jun-20
Bobmeister 28-Jun-20
blackwolf 28-Jun-20
blackwolf 28-Jun-20
DanaC 29-Jun-20
Mike in CT 29-Jun-20
DanaC 29-Jun-20
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Thisismyhandle 29-Jun-20
jjs 29-Jun-20
Ziek 29-Jun-20
Ziek 29-Jun-20
Trax 29-Jun-20
rodb 29-Jun-20
Ziek 29-Jun-20
Glunt@work 29-Jun-20
DanaC 29-Jun-20
Mike in CT 29-Jun-20
Trax 29-Jun-20
Will tell 29-Jun-20
Stix 29-Jun-20
TD 29-Jun-20
Ziek 29-Jun-20
Trax 29-Jun-20
loesshillsarcher 29-Jun-20
BowSniper 29-Jun-20
Fuzzy 29-Jun-20
TRnCO 29-Jun-20
DanaC 29-Jun-20
HDE 29-Jun-20
Trax 29-Jun-20
DanaC 29-Jun-20
grizz 29-Jun-20
Fuzzy 30-Jun-20
Rock 30-Jun-20
DanaC 30-Jun-20
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Mike in CT 30-Jun-20
DanaC 30-Jun-20
JL 30-Jun-20
Shaft2Long 30-Jun-20
WV Mountaineer 30-Jun-20
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Annony Mouse 30-Jun-20
Missouribreaks 30-Jun-20
rodb 01-Jul-20
DanaC 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
Ambush 01-Jul-20
1boonr 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
JL 01-Jul-20
BowSniper 01-Jul-20
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Ramhunter 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
DanaC 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
DanaC 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
DanaC 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
DanaC 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
splitlimb13 01-Jul-20
DanaC 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
DanaC 01-Jul-20
BowSniper 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
Will 01-Jul-20
TRnCO 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
lamb 01-Jul-20
TD 01-Jul-20
ground hunter 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
elkmtngear 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
TD 01-Jul-20
JL 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
K Cummings 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
Trax 01-Jul-20
Will tell 01-Jul-20
KSflatlander 01-Jul-20
Mike in CT 01-Jul-20
JL 02-Jul-20
Bobmeister 02-Jul-20
K Cummings 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
K Cummings 02-Jul-20
Rocky D 02-Jul-20
1boonr 02-Jul-20
BowSniper 02-Jul-20
Will 02-Jul-20
Trax 02-Jul-20
Rocky D 02-Jul-20
JL 02-Jul-20
Trax 02-Jul-20
Mike in CT 02-Jul-20
K Cummings 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
K Cummings 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
K Cummings 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Will 02-Jul-20
TD 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Tilzbow 02-Jul-20
K Cummings 02-Jul-20
JL 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Bowbender 02-Jul-20
Bobmeister 02-Jul-20
Rocky D 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Rocky D 02-Jul-20
Bowbender 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
Trax 02-Jul-20
ground hunter 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Owl 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
1boonr 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Owl 02-Jul-20
K Cummings 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
Pig Doc 02-Jul-20
bowbender77 02-Jul-20
KSflatlander 02-Jul-20
Tilzbow 02-Jul-20
tobywon 02-Jul-20
JL 03-Jul-20
Tilzbow 03-Jul-20
'Ike' (Phone) 03-Jul-20
Tilzbow 03-Jul-20
Robert2968 03-Jul-20
Bentstick81 03-Jul-20
K Cummings 03-Jul-20
tobywon 03-Jul-20
HDE 03-Jul-20
1boonr 03-Jul-20
K Cummings 03-Jul-20
Will 03-Jul-20
Trax 03-Jul-20
TD 03-Jul-20
Ambush 03-Jul-20
cnelk 03-Jul-20
KSflatlander 03-Jul-20
Ambush 03-Jul-20
Will 03-Jul-20
KSflatlander 03-Jul-20
1boonr 04-Jul-20
BC 04-Jul-20
bowbender77 04-Jul-20
cnelk 04-Jul-20
Trax 04-Jul-20
rodb 04-Jul-20
freeglee 04-Jul-20
freeglee 04-Jul-20
timberdoodle 05-Jul-20
Rupe 05-Jul-20
Robert2968 05-Jul-20
K Cummings 05-Jul-20
Will 05-Jul-20
rodb 05-Jul-20
grizz 05-Jul-20
Will tell 05-Jul-20
KSflatlander 05-Jul-20
happygolucky 05-Jul-20
BC 05-Jul-20
KSflatlander 05-Jul-20
Trax 05-Jul-20
K Cummings 05-Jul-20
Will tell 05-Jul-20
Bentstick81 05-Jul-20
Ambush 05-Jul-20
K Cummings 05-Jul-20
1boonr 05-Jul-20
rodb 05-Jul-20
Ambush 05-Jul-20
K Cummings 05-Jul-20
Will 05-Jul-20
Bou'bound 05-Jul-20
newfi1946moose 05-Jul-20
Pig Doc 05-Jul-20
grizz 05-Jul-20
Annony Mouse 05-Jul-20
'Ike' (Phone) 05-Jul-20
Matt 06-Jul-20
DanaC 06-Jul-20
Robert2968 06-Jul-20
Mike in CT 06-Jul-20
Huntcell 06-Jul-20
K Cummings 06-Jul-20
K Cummings 06-Jul-20
K Cummings 06-Jul-20
Gunny 06-Jul-20
B.B. 06-Jul-20
Pig Doc 06-Jul-20
Mike in CT 06-Jul-20
ground hunter 06-Jul-20
1boonr 06-Jul-20
K Cummings 06-Jul-20
Trax 06-Jul-20
K Cummings 06-Jul-20
Trax 06-Jul-20
TD 06-Jul-20
Bou'bound 06-Jul-20
K Cummings 06-Jul-20
BowSniper 06-Jul-20
Pat Lefemine 06-Jul-20
From: rodb
20-Jun-20
If not I would like to know why some of my posts are being deleted?

From: Ucsdryder
20-Jun-20
Big brother knows best for us.

From: grossklw
20-Jun-20
BOWSITE

From: KSflatlander
20-Jun-20
Ya think lol. Welcome to the party pal.

From: Glunt@work
20-Jun-20
Not sure what your posts said, but my guess would be they violated the forum rules. Not every post in violation gets deleted, but from what I have seen, everything I see deleted was a violation.

From: Glunt@work
20-Jun-20
This thread is probably a violation as well.

From: Bowfreak
20-Jun-20
Of course it's pro Trump. The majority of people who visit this site don't live in fantasy land.

From: Catscratch
20-Jun-20
I read some of your posts before they were deleted, I was wondering why also.

From: midwest
20-Jun-20
Pro conservative, anti-troll.

From: Old School
20-Jun-20
What Midwest said

20-Jun-20
I cannot imagine being a bow and arrow hunter and not being pro Trump. The dem, pro socialists, are not really good for hunting, period.

From: Ambush
20-Jun-20
Probably just more anti troll.

From: Pat Lefemine
20-Jun-20
Midwest x2

From: tobywon
20-Jun-20
Maybe deleted by divine intervention, sorry couldn’t resist :)

From: t-roy
20-Jun-20
Midwest X3^^

One question...Is CHAS/CHAP going to be added to the state/regional forums?

From: Spiral Horn
20-Jun-20
Bowhunting isn’t a partisan activity. Let’s keep it that way,

From: midwest
20-Jun-20
LOL@ t-roy!!!

20-Jun-20
The continued privilege to hunt with a bow or gun is very much a partisan issue. The pandering left, will not pander on behalf of bow and arrow hunters.

From: TD
20-Jun-20
LOL! t-roy, made my day.

No matter.... I ain't puttin' in for tags there.... not even with government money....

even if you drew, that's one place proof of sex goes to another level.... proof of species even....

From: Spiral Horn
20-Jun-20
Just pause a minute to think about why someone would begin a thread with such a question. Don’t take the “troll-bait”

From: Pig Doc
20-Jun-20
Give him a break. He's from the People's Republic of Minnesota where mayors let "protesters" burn down police precincts.

From: Highlife
20-Jun-20
Midwest for the WIN!

From: Arrowflinger
20-Jun-20
As far as I'm concerned, for the majority here. Yes it is.

From: BOHNTR
20-Jun-20
Is it pro Trump? Does a one legged duck swim in a circle?

From: K Cummings
20-Jun-20
Bowsite is “pro-killing wild animals.“ The math isn’t that hard.

KPC

From: grizz
20-Jun-20
If you think the right to hunt is not partisan, you just ain’t thinkin right.

From: 4nolz@work
20-Jun-20
Thread starter is a master-baiter.Plug too big, too much splash ,too big of a leader.Ignore.

20-Jun-20
If you say people are not welcome if they are not trump supporters you are eliminating a lot of people. There’s enough division to go around. No need to generate more. I come here to read, talk, and learn hunting, not politics.

From: Ollie
20-Jun-20
We’ll Stick, if you keep politics out of your posts then you should have no problem! Otherwise how would anyone know your political inclinations. People here tend to support Trump in part because he is pro-hunting and pro-second amendment. The alternative party supports neither.

20-Jun-20
Pig Doc I'm from Minnesota as well. You nailed it! Our Governor is a moron. Talk about out if touch and clueless.

From: elkmtngear
20-Jun-20
Bowsite is the biggest collection of Bowhunters in one place, on the Planet.

Fact that most are Conservative, is just a bonus ;^)

From: Jaquomo
20-Jun-20
If you look at the OP of the two current threads with "Trump" in the title, you can see both were started with the intent of bashing a Trump. So yes, backlash will ensue on a site populated mostly by conservatives.

From: ki-ke
20-Jun-20
Your rodb somewhere. Likely somewhere it should'nt be.....

From: Treeline
20-Jun-20

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo
The above, plus a few...

From: JohnMC
20-Jun-20
You don't have to be a Trump supporter to hunt. But don't try to claim if the left of today had there way best case there would be a lot less hunting opportunities. Plenty of examples to claim otherwise. Look at somethings we can't do in CO. Bait bears, spring bear hunting, no trapping. Look at CA. NJ and bears. Look across the pond at hunting in parts of Europe. Hey if gay marriage, and higher taxes, "free" medicare for all, floats your boat by all means vote for the left. But you can't claim the left is good for the future of hunting. The democrat party of today ain't your grandpa's democrat party.

From: Brotsky
20-Jun-20
I’m pro Daedlow, my posts never get deleted. Damn fake news site.

From: JL
20-Jun-20

JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
I think there are lots of folks of different persuasions who hunt and fish and I think that is not only cool...but smart political business. One person I despise politically in a major way bad and have been known to badmouth on occasion is also an avid fisherman and gun person. Rach Maddawg of MSDNC is a hardcore fisherman and shoots. I can dig that. Maybe she is a hunter too....I don't know?? Point being....don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If she supports fishing, shooting and the outdoors and will fight for that privilege....then we have something in common and would be allies.

From: DanaC
20-Jun-20
It's an archery forum, not a political forum. When you start a political discussion, it often gets 'heated' to the point that people cease being polite. And impolite threads get (or should get) deleted. Political or otherwise.

From: K Cummings
20-Jun-20
Bowsite is “pro-killing wild animals.“ The math isn’t that hard.

KPC

From: elknailer
20-Jun-20
As Hillary once said "What difference does it make"

From: Jaquomo
20-Jun-20
I watch Rachel Maddow sometimes for SMH laughs and never knew he liked guns or fishing. Learn something new every day!

From: freeglee
20-Jun-20
Considering this thing is stiil Up and Running I would say Pro Biden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How is yhe OP able to Question the Moderator decision???????? Still Up????????=Pro Biden

YGWYD 2020!!!!!!!!

20-Jun-20
I heard Biden say he would ban the import of all sport hunted trophy animals into the USA. Just wondering if that has any bearing on the question of whether bowsite should be pro Trump or not? I’m a Canadian so it’s just a question...

From: badbull
20-Jun-20
JohnMC, don't think that I have seen a more true statement than your last sentence (I knowing how my grandfather thought in his day). He has been gone since 1964 and he would not believe the political changes that have occurred since and not in a good way...... Badbull

From: Huntcell
20-Jun-20
“Name: rod bolduc from Minnesota Bowsite Handle: "rodb"”

Sounds French. Probably not, probably not from Mn either.

From: drycreek
20-Jun-20
Rachel Maddow is just trying to prove he has balls....

20-Jun-20
Yes. It’s majority pro Trump. As it should be. Of course, you have the few that preach liberal politics, yet hunt. They claim the left isn’t after the second Amendment. All the while preaching their drivel. And, all their posts show their lack of comprehension In reality. Those against Trump, are simply ignorant and confused. He’s the best thing we’ve had in a long, long, long, long time.

From: fubar racin
20-Jun-20
I don’t for a second question pats leanings but that doesn’t hold true for all moderation. Personally I’m 100% pro trump and 200% anti RODB / ANY OTHER TROLL!

20-Jun-20
Here in Indiana area... Dearborn, Ohio, Franklin, Switzerland, friendship,etc... trump all the way.

From: Brotsky
20-Jun-20
I’m pro Daedlow, my posts never get deleted. Damn fake news site.

21-Jun-20
rodb, most bowhunters in the USA lean conservative. It's just numbers. If you're talking with a group of bowhunters, you're probably talking with a bunch of conservatives. Just like if you're talking with a bunch of transgender people or UC Berkely students, odds are you're probably talking with a bunch of people who lean liberal.

21-Jun-20
Forget the OP. How do you politically support the privilege to hunt, which is not a constitutional right?

From: Tonybear61
21-Jun-20
My sibling and his kid are about as never Trumper as you could imagine. With all the time we spent in the woods and water together its hard to imagine they are not conservatives but like others they think Trump and the Republican party, conservatives are a menace. They think GOP wants dirty air, dirty water, no wildfie or fish, thrown grandma and grandpa off of the bridge and racist beyond any measure. Because of that attitude we don't hunt much together anymore. I know the democratic media engine is behind that miss information.

Any one see that Congress passed the Great Outdoors Act?? It was a partisan measure protecting all the great forests, waters we hunt and fish on and the National Parks too. Something missed by the mass media. Also something missed by my democratic friends. Its all about orange man bad, perceived racial inequality (really?? I'll hunt or fish with any one of any race or social structure) and all the PC crap.

From: rodb
21-Jun-20
“Name: rod bolduc from Minnesota Bowsite Handle: "rodb"” Sounds French. Probably not, probably not from Mn either.

Very good huntcell, you should have quit while you were ahead. You got my name right, I'm from Minnesota. I'm french canadian

Did you guys see that HUGE rally last night, Oh my god! ,it was huge. Packed the area and 40,000 outside. I really like his speech he gave outside.

OK I lied, his speech was so boring that people were leaving during it.

Trump 2020 and beyond

From: bobbinhood
21-Jun-20
Why would you be posting POLITICAL CRAP on here anyway! This is about Bowhunting/Archery! Lets just keep it enjoyable and NOT this other crap!!!! Trump 2020!

From: bigswivle
21-Jun-20
This probably isn’t your target audience bud

From: kakiat kid
21-Jun-20
I hope this site remains politics free..somethings need to be

From: grizz
21-Jun-20
So, rod, you came to Oklahoma just for the rally? No, of course you didn’t. Your governor hasn’t given you permission yet. Well, for your information, the arena seating capacity is 20,000 not 40. No one was leaving, they were cheering. As for outside, well you’ve never been here so you really wouldn’t know sh!t about that either now would you.

So, just FYI , should you ever get the opportunity to come to Oklahoma, things you should know. We are about 93% conservative, believe in the Constitution, honor the flag and our veterans, take pride in our history (black, white, and red) and we don’t even mind a few democrats. Oh yeah, we also have constitutional carry here so I’m sure if you were at a local store for provisions and someone walked in with their 357 on there belt, you’d probably have to hide. So, come see us sometime. Just don’t come to my house.

From: Ambush
21-Jun-20
Well rodb, if you are quebec french Canadian your attitude is entirely understandable. Not justifiable, just understandable.

I’m happy you moved.

From: LBshooter
21-Jun-20
Rodb, May not have been as crowded as first thought, but, Biden would be hard press to fill a gymnasium lol. If Biden climbs out of his basement and stands in front of the press for an hour answering questions I'll vote for him. But we all know Joe is not capable of doing that. The left will need plenty of anti depressants and safety pins come November 4th. God help this country if Biden wins, and if that happens I'll bet he doesn't last the year before his own throw h over board. Will certainly be entertaining.

From: 4nolz@work
21-Jun-20
Idgaf what Canadians think about American politics.

From: bigswivle
21-Jun-20

bigswivle's embedded Photo
bigswivle's embedded Photo

21-Jun-20
Crazy world out there,,Rachel was a competitive shooter, just does not believe in open carry. She also has big passion for fishing. Outdoor fun is not partisan I think we are in real trouble with Biden.

From: t-roy
21-Jun-20
Sounds like you fit right in with the cesspool of the Twin Cities, Rodb. It’s too bad that the politics and policies of that area dominates the rest of the state’s political leaning. My wife’s family is from there. Almost every one of them , plus almost everyone else that I know from there, are pretty conservative.

From: rodb
21-Jun-20
So Grizz where did I say the arena seated 40,000? I said there was 40,000 outside. And we were told that the arena was going to be packed with 20,000 so how many were actually in there? Looked like a lot of empty seats because you see there were cameras inside so you can't tell me it was full. And while you were inside there were cameras outside showing people leaving during the speech. And what happened to the 40,000 outside? Looked like maybe 20 or so. I have no doubt that Oklahoma has good people.

T-roy pretty sad coming from you.

From: rodb
21-Jun-20
So I suppose you are all wondering where I was going with this thread well you see Donald Trump is a racist, supports white supremacy, does not support blacks, minorities or people of color, preaches false religion and the list goes on. So if this website supports Donald Trump that means that it also supports all those thing about Trump so I do not want to be any part of this and was going to leave.

But guess what happened, it was a miracle, god spoke to me and told me not to leave bowsite, I swear to god and on Trumps bible that it did happen! He told me that a lot of you have lost your way for supporting Trump and that I should reach out and save you. So am back and so happy that bowsite is a part of my life again!

By the way I have no issues with somebody being a conservative, my issue is with those of you that support Trump.

From: KSflatlander
21-Jun-20
Anyone who thinks all Americans fit into two categories (left/liberal, right/conservative) is delusional or willfully ignorant. I guess categorizing people gives them comfort. Good/bad, left/right, black/white, etc.

Life and people just ain’t that simple.

From: Ambush
21-Jun-20
rodb, to become a better leader in this revolt, I'd suggest that you (along with ALL your cohorts) move to a pro socialist, anti capitalist country for a two year training\experiential sabbatical. Maybe split your group between China and North Korea.

From: fubar racin
21-Jun-20
Hahahahaha your cute lmao also Trump racist? Na man we got rid of the racism In the White House with Obama.

From: RIT
21-Jun-20
Remove a few baby dead coyotes but leave up this dumpster fire?

From: bigswivle
21-Jun-20
Lol

From: MQQSE
21-Jun-20
I support Trump and am sure hoping for four more years.

From: Matt
21-Jun-20
"Life and people just ain’t that simple."

You are giving some people too much credit.

From: bowbender77
21-Jun-20
Somebody give this dude the Bowsite TROLL AWARD and just maybe he will go away. TRUMP 2020 !!!

From: txhunter58
21-Jun-20
Ok Rob, if if you come on here claiming that trump is an asshole narcisist you wouldn’t get many people who disagree with you. Is he the best PERSON America has to offer for president. God I hope not for the future of this country. LOL But Biden, really??? That is going to be a contest to see who can control him the most. Whatever else you can say about Trump, he leads! Biden won’t

Most of the stuff you say about him you are just making up or regurgitating what you heard some liberal journalist say.

Has he been great for the economy?. Damn right. And that is good for ALL colors. Has he been tough with countries like China who are eating our lunch in trade?. Damn right.

Has he handled the Covid situation the best? Prob not but only time will tell, but no one was ready for this.

From: Two Feathers
21-Jun-20
Yes, this website is pro Trump but you knew that.

From: Hessticles
21-Jun-20

Hessticles's embedded Photo
Hessticles's embedded Photo

From: Keefers
21-Jun-20
Rodb, You should always refer to God Almighty our Father with respect and a capital G not a lower g. You ain’t saving no one only Jesus Christ has that power from His Father . He died on a cross for Our sins and If you or anyone asks and believes and repents of their sins then He and only He can save us not you or anyone else.

From: Boreal
21-Jun-20
This is God. You should go....

From: grizz
21-Jun-20
Keefers X 2.

From: Timex
21-Jun-20
I consider myself an independent with strong Republican values But also 100 % in favor of helping the needy especially the elderly & veterans. Now that said I voted for Trump but my vote was more of a vote against Hillary than for Trump. I didn't like Trump's mouth then & I don't like it now. He reminds me of a kid throwing rocks at a hornets nest & then complaining when he gets stung .......

From: TJS
21-Jun-20
X 3. (IMHO) We will have to vote for the candidate that follows the closest to God's Biblical principles. We most likely won't be pleased with all that that candidate represents. The most important issue for me is that God clearly wants us to value all human lives, no matter their age or stage of development.

I am disappointed in "the best" these current political parties have to offer, or should I say, who our citizens are willing to put up as leaders.

As a nation, we have survived many years of "not good" presidents in recent decades. God help us as we go forward. May we select the best candidate.

From: Jaquomo
21-Jun-20
The way the coordinated dishonest Left media goes after conservatives like wild rabid dogs, I don't see why any Republican would subject himself and his family to a presidential campaign.

From: Bowhunt3138
21-Jun-20
rodb ur a db !!!!

From: Rut Nut
21-Jun-20
rodb- you know the best thing about THIS country? It’s a FREE country- so if you think things are so bad here, you are FREE to go back to your old one! ;-)

22-Jun-20
60 people shot this past weekend, in America, yep they are all coming together,,,,, what a joke

22-Jun-20
Look at Seattle,,,,, that is a image of what street life will be under Biden.... Police have to retreat, the mayor lets the criminals run the streets, the governor has no clue or does not care,,,,,,,,,,,,,, yep Seattle should be proud,,,,,,

From: South Farm
22-Jun-20
"rodb- you know the best thing about THIS country? It’s a FREE country- so if you think things are so bad here, you are FREE to go back to your old one! ;-)"

Problem is they NEVER leave before sh!tting in the nest and ruining it for everybody else first!

From: BOWNBIRDHNTR
22-Jun-20
One of the absolute greatest things about America is Freedom. Take advantage of the fact you are Free to leave her Rodb. Never will I be asking you to save me. Never.

From: txhunter58
22-Jun-20
Most bow hunters are independent DIY kind of guys. We might hire an outfitter every now and then, but hardly ever

So why in the heck would we want to give 95% control of our lives and money over to an outfitter (govt)??? Especially one that is constantly changing “guides”?

That plain enough for you ?

22-Jun-20
New York City has 1000 gun charges pending, those of course are all on the street with free bail, plus another 800 cases pending...... yeah, I can assure you those are not NRA members,,,,,,

When is the Democratic leaders going to wake up, and quit pandering to the far left. They are taking down the Roosevelt statue in NY,,,,, you know what statue they have in Seattle, and one that has not been touched with graffiti, "Lenin", the man who slaughtered millions,,,,,,

The Democrats that I knew always supported unions, but now they want police unions disbanded.....................

From: 1boonr
22-Jun-20
RodB is the typical liberal who moves out of a shithole to a great state then votes the same way, hoping for utopia but turning the new place into a shithole

From: TD
22-Jun-20
Monday must be foot washing day.......

From: Fuzzy
22-Jun-20
It's an archery/bow-hunting website. It's pro archery, pro hunting, pro common sense. Not everyone here rides the Trump train, a few even ride the crazy train. For the most part we talk about archery, hunting, cooking/eating meat, planting food plots, fishing, and such. Sometimes we talk about which broad-heads are most like a thrown axe, and whether large ungulates have a chest cavity void.

From: Shaft2Long
22-Jun-20
I don’t know about the website but this post is pro Trump.

I’m Shaft2long and I approve this message.

22-Jun-20
Us more Progressive hunters are caught in the middle. Left wing fanatics wanting to take away our right to hunt on public and private land and label what we do animal cruelty (forget about the second amendment this is bowsite) Right wing bankers and billionaires pricing our children out of the sport and selling our public lands off to the highest bidder.

That’s why I re-registered as an independent (previously Republican)

22-Jun-20
We have to stop China Joe.

From: BTP
22-Jun-20
I'm with you Michael. I've never voted for a Democrat for President. But then they have a Bernie vs Biden showdown? This is what they roll out?

I think the political system we have is badly damaged by 2 parties. Would it be so crazy to vote for a moderate that considered each issue by its own merits as opposed to being married to it for fear of losing a bit of the base they need for re-election?

Conservatives do support hunting. Liberals are more likely to be against it. But Liberals do tend to believe in environmental protection where as conservatives favor business usage or these places. Look at the Bristol Bay issue that is a big deal to fly-fisherman..

Idk, I don't want to pay my heard earned dollars into taxes for the lazy and the criminal. But I also don't want a guy thrown in jail cause he likes to smoke a bowl and watch the Simpsons at night.

I would hope that we would all learn to listen, share, and consider other peoples opinions. We might learn something. We might even find some crazy concept like respect for fellow Americans. Crazy, I know.

Now I've got to find a "build my next arrow" post to unwind.

From: DL
22-Jun-20
“From: rodb 20-Jun-20 If not I would like to know why some of my posts are being deleted?“ It sure isn’t the Pat Paulson wanna be Rambling Joe Biden. Now you have to be old enough to remember atheists Smothers Brothers to remember Presidential candidate Pat Paulson.

Most importantly Biden supports the use of Crossbows.

22-Jun-20
I thought the ‘community’ forum was dead....Good read though! LMAO

From: DanaC
22-Jun-20
"We have to stop China Joe. " So we can elect "Please help me, Xi" Donnie? LMAO!!!

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
"(forget about the second amendment this is bowsite)"

If you think the second amendment is about hunting you are clueless.

"But I also don't want a guy thrown in jail cause he likes to smoke a bowl and watch the Simpsons at night."

And you think that's what conservatives are about? There have been more states with legalized mj under Trump than any other president. Ever hear of the First Step Act? Thousands of inmates, mostly low level drug offenders, have been released under this act sponsored by Trump.

Maybe if some of you "independents" were more educated on what is actually going on, instead of believing all the lies on the MSM, you would be conservatives.

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
""We have to stop China Joe. " So we can elect "Please help me, Xi" Donnie? LMAO!!!"

More fake news. Turn off CNN and WTFU.

From: Trax
22-Jun-20
Sometimes I would agree the current prez could better our cause and his by talking less. Bottom line across the board, President Trump has been what this country desperately needed at a most critical time. According to the ACU far more conservative than Ronald Reagan and far less controlled by the power Party. On nearly every issue he has bettered America. The America hating hybrid Marxists/Fascists we see leading their blind dumb sheep to protest in the streets and take over cities are the ones who are bringing the dissent and lawlessness. You would not have seen this if Hilda had been elected because she would have indirectly been working with those cockroaches. And so would crazy uncle Joe. Worry less about what President Trump says but any informed citizen should be applauding what he has done. We desperately need 4 more years of his leadership! rod is nothing but a trolling blind dumb sheep leftist. He's busy pounding another ring in his nose to be led by.

From: KSflatlander
22-Jun-20
“I would hope that we would all learn to listen, share, and consider other peoples opinions. We might learn something. We might even find some crazy concept like respect for fellow Americans. Crazy, I know.“

So much for that.

Pig Doc- you could say the same thing about conservatives and Fox News.

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
"Pig Doc- you could say the same thing about conservatives and Fox News."

Say what? Do you have anything specific or just more liberal BS?

From: Trax
22-Jun-20
What opinions should we "learn" from and "share"? That cops are bad and criminals are good? That all lives matter or only one shade? That terrorist groups like Antifa should be "considered"? That the rats who literally take over police precincts and city blocks should be "listened" to? I am all for sharing ideas that can and will produce positive outcomes. But to paraphrase a wise man …. "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."

And liberals are one thing, the lawless scum we see in the streets are far beyond being simply liberal.

From: 4nolz@work
22-Jun-20
“I would hope that we would all learn to listen, share, and consider other peoples opinions. We might learn something. We might even find some crazy concept like respect for fellow Americans. Crazy, I know.“

As long as it's Conservatives listening to Liberals you mean.

From: DanaC
22-Jun-20
"More fake news." As witnessed by a guy who was in the room. I'm no fan of Bolton but his 'conservative cred' is light years beyond what Trump will ever have.

From: Trax
22-Jun-20
In terms of common sense or conservative accomplishment Bolton is a midget to what Trump has accomplished. Bolton and his book are being discredited more and more every hour. Bolton was an establishment guy, a believer that the USA should not only police the world but involve ourselves and start military conflicts at every opportunity. That was the big difference between the two. Just as Bolton turned against W Shrub, he is against another who would not buy into his military imperialism. Too bad, Bolton does have good ideals in other areas. Now go back to your Commie News Network, our indoctrination isn't complete yet.

From: DanaC
22-Jun-20
I can't help but laugh at that lame-ass 'CNN' jibe. I don't watch television but anyone who argues against Trump is a 'liberal' who 'gets their news from CNN'. That is simple-minded propaganda from the Trump cult of personality and has no bearing on the topic. Like every other 'ad hominem' argument, it's lame. Do better, swabs.

From: bigswivle
22-Jun-20
“ I can't help but laugh at that lame-ass 'CNN' jibe. I don't watch television but anyone who argues against Trump is a 'liberal' who 'gets their news from CNN'. That is simple-minded propaganda from the Trump cult of personality and has no bearing on the topic. Like every other 'ad hominem' argument, it's lame. Do better, swabs.”

Weeeeeellllll if u don’t watch TV anymore how can you make this argument?

From: Matt
22-Jun-20
"As long as it's Conservatives listening to Liberals you mean."

Nah, it's the people who have to fit into a camp, who think the world is black and white, and if you disagree with another on something their broader opinion set has no merit.

I voted for Trump and believe he has done some good things for this country. But I am constantly amazed...and shocked....and frankly discouraged at how many can find no fault in him. Not to mention the absolutely ridiculous excuses they make to prop him - and themselves - up.

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
""More fake news." As witnessed by a guy who was in the room. I'm no fan of Bolton but his 'conservative cred' is light years beyond what Trump will ever have."

You are "no fan of Bolton" but believe everything he says. LMAO. It's fact that Hunter Biden took money from the Chinese for political influence with his father. Bolton's book has not even hit the shelves and lie after lie has already been exposed. He's a traitor and broke the law by publishing the book prior to proper approval. It's really quite funny that war monger Bolton has been hated forever by liberals and now that he is disparaging Trump he is a liberal hero. Talk about sheep.

From: Kydeer1
22-Jun-20
I hope we are pro trump as far as the second amendment and hunting goes. Not to mention he has done tons of great things for the country and the economy. Probably and arguably one of the best presidents we have ever had in those regards. His speeches make me cringe for sure, but I can honestly say that his public speaking is about the only negative thing I can come up with about him. His god fearing, for the people, love the country persona is exactly what this country needs.

From: 4nolz@work
22-Jun-20
Bolton is just the other end of the Swamp.Everyone thinks they get appointed to the White House and can tell Trump what to do.Hes not like previous Presidents.

From: DanaC
22-Jun-20
"(Bolton) broke the law by publishing the book prior to proper approval." AS IF Trump and his pet coyote Barr were ever going to 'approve' publication ! LMAO!!!

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
Not sure where you get your news but you are lost. The NSC, not Trump or the AG has to approve the book. It has not been approved. You might just want to stop digging as every time you post you show your ignorance. Bolton broke the law. It's very likely he will have to surrender proceeds from the book (this happened to Navy SEAL Mark Bissonnette), or better yet, he can spend some time in jail.

From: 4nolz@work
22-Jun-20
Yep NSC this ^^^^^

From: Tilzbow
22-Jun-20
Matt wrote, "I voted for Trump and believe he has done some good things for this country. But I am constantly amazed...and shocked....and frankly discouraged at how many can find no fault in him. Not to mention the absolutely ridiculous excuses they make to prop him - and themselves - up."

Couldn't have said it better... I've got several friends that fall into this category. On the other hand I've got several friends that will vote against Trump just because he's a total jackass most of the time even though philosophically they're moderate conservatives.

Before I die, I really want to vote for someone I really want to be president and not because the alternative would be way worse. The choice always seems to be "crappy" vs. "crappier" and "crappier" always comes down to party alliances.

From: KSflatlander
22-Jun-20
Mad Dog Mattis, General Kelly, John Bolton, Steve Bannon, HR McMaster, and company were all campaign positives for Trump but are all now liars.

You all are seriously buy Trumps BS? Screw the news...believe your own eyes and ears. Or is it his dog whistles that make you come running.

Trump has done some good thing but man...he is a national disgrace and international embarrassment.

22-Jun-20
Bolton is a hawk who has always favored American Interventionism via force in matters that have not had a lot to do with making America a better place for our children.

This is contrary to being a conservative. Conservatives believe in force as a last measure to protect US interests. We're not Earth's police whose responsibility is to solve every skirmish and injustice across the globe; geopolitical, racial, or religious. We do what we can and occasionally save the world from global take-over by fascists, but we have to look out for ourselves because that's the US government's job.

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
And your girl Hillary? Senile Joe Biden? Liar Adam Schiff? Nancy Pelosi? AOC? Rashida Talib? Jerry Nadler? You must be so proud.

From: DanaC
22-Jun-20
KSFlatlander, that's just a partial list of people Trump threw under the bus wheels. The man's loyalty begins and ends at the mirror.

From: Old School
22-Jun-20
Dana C - and the people Hillary threw under the bus wheels died in Benghazi. Get some perspective.

From: KSflatlander
22-Jun-20
As if everyone who is not on the Trump train wreck agrees with “Hillary? Senile Joe Biden? Liar Adam Schiff? Nancy Pelosi? AOC? Rashida Talib? Jerry Nadler?” This is the exact false choice pushed on Fox News every night which is meant to decide the whole country into two groups. And people actually buy into it. Good grief.

From: Old School
22-Jun-20
Ok KS Flatlander - so if it’s not between them, then exactly who are you voting for come November? It really is a choice between Trump and Biden. If you’re railing on Trump constantly which you seem to do, what is your better option????

I didn’t vote for Trump in the Republican primary, but it was pretty obvious who I was voting for between him and Hillary - I guess some here miss the obvious choice and somehow think we’d be better off with honest, meek, second amendment and hunting supporter Hillary. And like it or not, those you listed - are the face of your party. Good grief.

From: JohnMC
22-Jun-20
I think what KSflatbrimmer meant was you left out ShuckU Schumer, AOC, The Reverend Al Sharpton, and Bill "DE" Blasio

From: midwest
22-Jun-20
I believe Trump's popularity would be through the roof and he would go down as one of our greatest POTUS if not for his thin skin and narcissistic personality disorder. I believe Don Jr. would make a great candidate in the future.

From: JL
22-Jun-20

JL's embedded Photo
JL's embedded Photo
Any guesses who Biden's VP pick will be? Here are Las Vegas odds from yesterday.

22-Jun-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
Old School nailed it. Of course KS has no reasonable answer unless the DNC is going to resurrect JFK. His chosen party is full of criminals, socialists, liars and losers.

From: Wild Bill
22-Jun-20
rodb, you lie.

"He told me that a lot of you have lost your way for supporting Trump and that I should reach out and save you. So am back and so happy that bowsite is a part of my life again!"

Moses was a murder and God used him mightily.

From: KSflatlander
22-Jun-20
Valid question Old School. I don’t know who I will vote for. I need to watch the debates and keep an open mind. Maybe I’ll have to write in a candidate. We will see.

Those folks are not the face of the party anymore than Roy Moore is of the Republican Party. They are part of the extreme of the party no different than Inholf or Steve King. Last but not least you all have Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. Oh oh and HH.

We can go on with this as if the far extremes of the party represent all views but I don’t believe that. If you do that’s your problem. It’s just simple-mindedness IMO.

I think Midwest has a very good point.

From: Old School
22-Jun-20
KS - the problem is this - whether you want to admit it or not, those are the face of your party. Who else does the mainstream media cover and quote continually? You’re right, they are extreme, but they’ve pulled the Democratic Party to the far left. Socialist - and that’s not a slur, it’s fact. Look who they’ve put forward the last 2 elections - Hillary, Bernie and Biden. Of course on the heels of Obama and Biden. The Democratic Party has taken a hard, decisive turn left. To not see that is what I’d call being simple minded.

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
"Those folks are not the face of the party anymore than Roy Moore is of the Republican Party."

Dream on KS. Trump is his own man and bucks the party routinely. Bernie and his progressive, socialist clowns (AOC, Talib, Omar) are running the Democratic party. Biden is a doddering old fool hiding in his basement and taking orders from Bernie and the gang.

From: Catscratch
22-Jun-20
Dude created this thread and posted on it three times. He may be the master troll!

From: JL
22-Jun-20
"I believe Trump's popularity would be through the roof and he would go down as one of our greatest POTUS if not for his thin skin and narcissistic personality disorder."

I tend to think Prez Trump should drop the name calling. I know he does it in political jest, as he does with alot of his statements. I think he is very savvy and knows how to play people and the media. Early on I use to think he should stop sending tweeties. However as time has gone on, it's easy to see why he sends them.....to by pass the media.

On election day....there will only be 2 choices...Trump or Biden. We can make a case there will be 3rd choice....that being Biden's VP pick but at the end of the day it's Trump or Biden. Both now have a track record with Biden's being very long (decades long). You can ask what has each accomplished? We know what the Trump Admin has accomplished in 4 years. Without looking it up, I don't know what positive things Biden has accomplished. I know some of the things he was involved with like Obamacare, but I wouldn't list that as a positive accomplishment.

I think when the debates start Biden may struggle to keep up with the topics as Trump will out talk him. I don't think Biden can process his thoughts as quick as Trump. If Biden stumbles frequently, that might overshadow his platform message. The folks will have a good feel of how things go in the first debate.

From: Trax
22-Jun-20
I will be surprised if the Biden camp allows that idiot to debate Trump. Biden will get annihilated if he dares.

I’ve never seen anyone say Trump has no flaws. Nor did our founding fathers. Or Jackson, or Polk, or Lincoln, or either Roosevelt’s, or Reagan. Any of our presidents. His accomplishment on the issues is simply incredible. That with the media and Congress for the most part against him. I did not support Trump in the primary. I voted for him only because I knew he could not be worse than Hilda. He has exceeded all expectations in a very positive way. On what really matters, the issues. When someone says that Trump is a racist in any way they are simply identifying themselves as a blind dumb sheep. That or they hope you are.

From: Pig Doc
22-Jun-20
Rod, KS and Dana, your leftist comrades are busy tearing down a statue of Teddy Roosevelt right now, working to defund the police and crapping on the streets of Seattle. You must be so proud.

From: splitlimb13
22-Jun-20
This

"Not sure where you get your news but you are lost. The NSC, not Trump or the AG has to approve the book. It has not been approved. You might just want to stop digging as every time you post you show your ignorance. Bolton broke the law. It's very likely he will have to surrender proceeds from the book (this happened to Navy SEAL Mark Bissonnette), or better yet, he can spend some time in jail."

And this "And your girl Hillary? Senile Joe Biden? Liar Adam Schiff? Nancy Pelosi? AOC? Rashida Talib? Jerry Nadler? You must be so proud."

Nailed it!

From: Matt
22-Jun-20
"Before I die, I really want to vote for someone I really want to be president and not because the alternative would be way worse. The choice always seems to be "crappy" vs. "crappier" and "crappier" always comes down to party alliances."

Perhaps you are not a South Park fan, but back when Obama was running against Bush or Romney, there was an episode where the kid's school was voting for a new mascot. The 2 options were a huge douch and a turd sandwich, and the kids lamented they did not have a better option.

It cracks me up when someone thinks the world will end if one candidate or the other gets elected. IMO they have missed the point. They should be worrying more that, in a country of 300MM+ people, Trump and Biden are the two who made it to the top of the political heap.

Desperate days indeed.

From: RMhunter
22-Jun-20
I don't usually talk politics with anyone outside my own house, but when I hear how racists trump is and how he's divided the country I can't help but shake my head. I'm 38 year old and was born and raised in the hills of east Tenn where it is predominantly white, in the small school I went to which only had 200 kids in 9-12th grades there were only two African Americans. One of those was my high school sweetheart and now my wife, and we have 3 beautiful biracial children with a 4th on the way. Race relations started in reverse when Obama became our President. Trump is not the perfect candidate by no means but he's definitely the better option

22-Jun-20
I watched Tucker Carlson tonight. Where he dumped the republican party for being pacifists. And told it like it was concerning the president and how he needs to step up and be a leader. In all the areas being disgraced by these protesters, there are good Americans caught in the cross fire.

Our future needs the history that comes with this country. They need to be taught the real history. They need the leader that Trump was. If Trump would learn one thing about the passive approach that politicians have perfected is that Americans' respond to people who do good things for AMERICA!!!!!! It is what made him the president he has been and, will be the deciding factor in if he gets re-elected. Be the Strong, non oarty partisan that got you elected man!

The thing that gets me about progressive people is they refuse to acknowledge that for decades, that history has purposely being erased. So, we are deemed to repeat it. And, those same people don't see the recent happenings as nothing more then out rage. When in reality, it is a fight to change this country into something that isn't American by definition.

And, the thing that pisses me off about liberal people is they always say to consider the other person. Well, I do. But that stops when the other side wants to end America as defined. You don't get consideration for that. No matter how you twist things into degrees of reality, some things are black and white. It s either inline with America or it is something that isn't.

There s indeed a big push to change this country. Its been going on for a while and it is human nature. With all the entitlement we have, we were bound to get slaves willing to put purpose to their existence. People mad because they choose the government day care system versus the American dream. And, are willing to take it from anyone else that chose to work for it instead. And, it is straight up political and, the left leaning sheeple allow them to feed it to them like they do everything else. No denying it.

If people are too dumb to see and admit that then they are the problem.

22-Jun-20
Most Republican politicians are sheep,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

From: DanaC
23-Jun-20
" Dana, your leftist comrades are..."

See, this is where you Trumpers go off the rails. Just because I despise the fraud who pretends to be a conservative while giving tax breaks to the rich and making America look stupid, I'm a 'leftist'. And you think labeling ME a 'leftist, commie, pinko, dimmycrat, liberal, yadda yadda' is going to sway me?

If you're happy with the 'make coal great again', lying, can't take good advice, rather golf than listen to briefings, pussy-grabbing slob then this country is truly screwed.

23-Jun-20
"...can't take good advice, rather golf than listen to briefings, pussy-grabbing..."

Hey, that kinda hits close to home...

23-Jun-20
Do you really want to bring up sexual assaults? Biden is guilty as well. It's hard to listen to anyone when they show hypocrisy. Oh and major ignorance as well.

From: BullBuster
23-Jun-20
Blah blah blah blah....TRUMP 2020!!

From: Old School
23-Jun-20
Dana C - Don’t think anyone here is trying to sway you - you’re beyond being swayed. Liberal cities burn - at the hands of liberals. Look at the face of the democratic leadership - Pelosi, Biden, Schumer, AOC, etc... You conveniently overlook Clinton’s moral behavior, delirious Joe Biden’s moral behavior, but are quick to point out Trumps. Pot calling kettle black. Regular Americans are watching what is happening in this country and know which party is truly dividing us and causing the issues. Some of you choose to be partisan and not call out your own party for what it is - a joke.

We don’t need to sway anyone - your party is doing a good enough job of swaying people to our way of thinking. The Democrat party has gone insane.

From: ki-ke
23-Jun-20
"It cracks me up when someone thinks the world will end if one candidate or the other gets elected. IMO they have missed the point. They should be worrying more that, in a country of 300MM+ people, Trump and Biden are the two who made it to the top of the political heap."

My thoughts exactly Matt.....I look left and right and think, Really! This is the BEST we can do????

From: midwest
23-Jun-20
"They should be worrying more that, in a country of 300MM+ people, Trump and Biden are the two who made it to the top of the political heap."

Matt, I'm sure you've seen the movie "Idiocracy". We're almost there.

From: Kevin Dill
23-Jun-20
"I look left and right and think, Really! This is the BEST we can do????"

No kidding. Certainly not the best we can do, but our leaders are indicative of the societies which would elect them. When we find ourselves consistently voting against someone (versus enthusiastically FOR a candidate) we're in trouble. The representative government (including president) we elect shows the world what kind of people we've become.

From: Rut Nut
23-Jun-20

Rut Nut's embedded Photo
Rut Nut's embedded Photo
Do you REALLY want THIS guy in the Oval Office?!

From: JL
23-Jun-20
Proposed debate dates....all of them during bow/gun season in many places.

"In the letter, O’Malley Dillon writes that Biden, once formally invited by the commissioner after he officially becomes the Democratic nominee later this summer, will participate in three CPD-commissioned debates slated for Sept. 29, Oct. 15 and Oct. 22."

From: grizz
23-Jun-20
“ The average American is not capable of managing their own affairs, they need the government to do that for them.” Obama said that and the media and democrats ignored it. Just imagine the shat storm if Trump said it. Hypocrisy? Yep!

From: TrapperKayak
23-Jun-20
I would bird hunt with Rachel Maddow if she had black feathers, a waddle and a fan tail. Oh wait, she does!

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
grizz- do you have a source for that Obama quote?

23-Jun-20
What Matt and Tilzbow posted are my sentiments exactly. I’m nearly 67 and for the first time ever, the thought of not voting has crossed my mind. I’m sure I will, but not without cringing. I just figure the cringe will be less severe with Trump. As has been previously stated, it sucks when the only choices are bad and worse.

From: 4nolz@work
23-Jun-20
I started out never Trumper and voted for the future of the Supreme Court.Now I support his policies-they work.I wish he wouldnt say stuff but he doesnt let insults pass, he talks like we do around the kitchen table.Seattle should tell you what to expect if Biden gets elected he is a shell of a man and would be run by puppeteers.

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
I can see why leftists, Marxists and other assorted socialists hate Trump so much, according to the ACU he is the most conservative president in the modern era by far. He thankfully has put a stop for the time being to their America hating globalist march. Why so many so called Republicans have disdain for him is because he does not bow to their omnipotent Party, he is not ruled by old school establishment. I'm not talking about blind and dumb sheep on either side, they are easily led. I'm talking about people who do know better. As bad as they have always been the media has never tried to villainize anyone like they have President Trump. They know they are propagating their own lying agenda, their attempt is to influence more blind dumb sheep. It works to a degree of course. After he is re-elected this November I can't wait to see the media reaction. Priceless!

From: splitlimb13
23-Jun-20

splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo
Trump train......2020! This dirty old bastard is the best the lib yards can cook up? Come on.

From: grizz
23-Jun-20
My source is that I saw the SOB say it on national television. Is that a good enough source for you? Use that google button if you want to see it yourself, it was one of the idiots televised speeches.

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
WV M, Old School, many good posts here. Bottom line is the Democrat Socialist Party of today is nothing like the Party led by JFK. JFK today would be a Republican and on many issues a Trump supporter. The DSP is radically leftist of course, but part of their element they themselves are even scared of. Instead of putting them out like a cigarette and wiping them off their shoe they stand aside as cities burn and history is toppled. Stores are looted by thieves and store owners threatened and assaulted. Cops and law and order are bad and criminals are good. This is Orwell's 1984, a march to a totalitarian rule where by their law you will say what they want you to say and you will think what they want you think. They claim to come to fight oppression when THEY are the oppressors. Notice how a large percentile if not vast majority of the worse assaulters on the street and statue topplers are white. Not black people, white people. Terrorist groups like Antifa at play here. It's time to come down hard on these America hating gomers. Move in with force and armed drones in the air. Anyone pulls a gun on the police immediately shoot them dead. Put everyone on the ground with whatever means needs to be used and arrest them. If they would have enforced the law from the VERY beginning none of this would have happened. You can NOT march without permit, you can not shut down highways and walkways, you can not break into stores and thieve merchandise, you can not vandalize public property etc etc. But, THIS mayhem is what liberalism brings.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
I did google it and can’t find a source. So no, it’s not a good enough source. I mean you had direct quotes. I think we can categorize it as “Fake News.”

From: Jaquomo
23-Jun-20
Obama did say sort of say what grizz paraphrased, but not in that context. He said it in a speech in Germany and stated, "some believe", and he then disavowed that belief. Then his speech was selectively edited and placed on YouTube to make it appear that he meant it that way.

I have nothing good to say about Obama, but facts are facts. It was distorted video editing, just as the Left does to Trump. Imagine if Trump said, "The Left thinks we should burn our cities and start over", and it was edited to make him appear to say, "We should burn our cities and start over".

From: Z Barebow
23-Jun-20
Who among us would want to be part of this political system? I know I wouldn't. Other than JC, we all have flaws and a past history. Maybe I am ignorant. I would like to think there was a time when the best and brightest entered the political arena to lead. Who among us can state our cities, states and country are lead by the best and brightest? (I know I don't need all 10 fingers to count them). Smart people won't put themselves through the political and media wringer of today.

Today, I vote for candidates who align (Mostly) with the policies I support. If I want a perfect candidate, they don't exist. Candidates can be nice and tell you want to hear. (And sound good doing it. Think our former president) It is their actions (Policy) that matter to me.

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
"Smart people won't put themselves through the political and media wringer of today."

Trump did. He has more money than he can ever spend. He could be golfing and lounging around with Melania all day every day but he has sacrificed the golden years of his life to try to fix the mess created by Obama and drain the swamp that is DC. We needed a street fighting-business man for the job, not another community organizer. I for one admire the sacrifice he has made the last 4 years and will make again for the next 4 years. Not many people could do that.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Thanks Jaq.

Z Barebow- well said and I couldn’t agree more. That is why dividing all Americans into two groups is a propaganda trap and fallacy that many here have fallen into. And some how less than 1% of the nut cases in a party represent the values and opinions of the other 99% (hyperbole). That is the Sean Hannity business model.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Image a complete and total narcissist like Trump wanting to be president. And I’m pretty sure he has not have up golfing lol.

From: Stix
23-Jun-20
I've always thought that since congress makes and writes the laws and funds the govt that voting for president is a vote on how you would like the supreme court to be seated. I think the country is best served by a constructionist court, one that interprets the constitution EXACTLY as written.

From: Old School
23-Jun-20
KS - Facts show you’re just not correct. Who put Pelosi in her position? Did she take it by force or was she voted in? What about AOC? What about Biden? What about Obama? What about Hillary? What about Schumer? I agree that they are all socialist leftist, but the Democrats are who have given them their positions of power - By voting for them. So if the vast majority of Dems aren’t that way, how is it that the Dem leadership is so far left then? Honest question.

You may not be that far left, but your party clearly is.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
No I do not agree with every decision or opinion of the people you listed. Nor is it my party. Lastly, The majority of Democrats are not “socialist.”

From: Old School
23-Jun-20
KS - While I agree that the majority of Democrats are not socialists, the problem is that they are giving power to those within their party who are. Rather than minimizing them, they've empowered them and made them the leaders of their party. And it’s pretty obvious the leaders are setting the course of the party.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Old school – how do you suggest changing the party? I would suggest that the Republican party is not the same party it was before Trump was elected.

From: JohnMC
23-Jun-20
Name a few democrats that are actually in the leadership of democratic party that are not pushing our country more towards socialism than we have ever seen before. Not to many years ago Nancy P. was crazy and way to the left of the rest of the party. Now she possible more center left than much of her party. Scary times...

23-Jun-20
The majority of democrats are leaning very heavily towards Socialism, it is coming.

From: Old School
23-Jun-20
KS - it starts with some within the party standing up and saying “that’s not who we are”. I just don’t see the Democrats doing that - yet. They’re too busy backing the looters and seeking “police defunding and reform.” and pushing their gender nonsense.

The Republicans aren’t the same since Trump - you’re right. But I believe it’s better. Within the Republican Party - there are those establishment republicans and I have no use for them. There is also a large group that are not.

Trump is up to his eyeballs in the Swamp and is doing his best to lead the country inspite of the politicians around him.

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
Thank God the Republican Party is not the same Party it was before Trump was elected. Proof and to the positive that President Trump is making progress! The Republican Party had become a power establishment liberal Party. The Democrat Socialist Party has been radically leftist with a strong march towards both globalism and socialism. President Trump has brought the Party towards its true conservative roots and ideals and THAT is why the nevertrumper "Republicans" will have no more of it. The likes of Mittens Romney and Bill Kristol. You think Obama wasn't a narcissist? He's right there with Trump. MOST presidents were narcissists to a point. In terms of narcissism Hilda would have made Trump look like St. Francis of Assisi.

From: Fuzzy
23-Jun-20
"smoke a bowl and watch the Simpsons" lol

30 years ago yes.

Now it's ice cream in the bowl and Jessica Simpson on the TV.....L0L

From: DanaC
23-Jun-20
"Within the Republican Party - there are those establishment republicans and I have no use for them. "

So what sort of 'Republican party' do you want - skinheads, Aryan bothers, peckerwoods and assorted 'religious' bigots ? because you're dam' near there already.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20

KSflatlander's Link
Old School- very much appreciate the debate and your civility. I would like to acknowledge that you have some good points. Yes there are some elected democrats that I think are out of touch with reality. Same goes for some a Republicans. So what. That’s always the case. We agree the D’s have moved left in the primary same as R’s moved right in 2016. I’ll just keep an open mind a see what happens.

Attached is a link I found about how Americans feel about socialism. Pretty interesting data. We all need to realize that there is socialism in our government and the left and right extremes are just arguing the magnitude of it.

From: Old School
23-Jun-20
Dana C - no, perhaps the non establishment republicans are true conservatives. Novel idea huh?

From: yooper89
23-Jun-20
This might be the dumbest shit I’ve seen on Bowsite. Can’t wait to see a paywall put in place

From: Old School
23-Jun-20
KS - you’re right, both parties have people out of touch with reality. The Republican Party put forth McCain and followed that up with Romney - 2 complete jokes. Thankfully they rebooted after that.

From: JohnMC
23-Jun-20
"Yes there are some elected democrats that I think are out of touch with reality."

Name some main stream/leaders in the democrat party that are not.

If most democrats are not socialist. Trump will when in a landslide. Because like it or not you get to choose either Trump or a party that pushing for a lot more socialism.

DanaC same for you name a few of the Republican leadership that are skinheads, Aryan bothers, peckerwoods and assorted 'religious' bigots.

From: Ambush
23-Jun-20
rodb throws a turd in the pool and pretty quick has everybody fighting about who's it is and who should be responsible for it. Exactly what he was hoping for.

I am afraid there is no hope.

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
Not true Ambush. Without dialogue and debate there is no hope. rodb didn't want this to happen, he has been exposed as a leftist idiot and a troll. A demonstration of the positives of the Trump administration for all Americans and especially we hunters at the same time. It's a beautiful thing.

From: DanaC
23-Jun-20
"Dana C - no, perhaps the non establishment republicans are true conservatives. Novel idea huh? "

I reject that 'novel idea' with contempt. Sorry.

From: DanaC
23-Jun-20
Reagan, Eisenhower and Lincoln himself wouldn't fit in this 'non-establishment' Trumpian cult of personality.

23-Jun-20
Rod,

My answer is simply yes, and that is not saying I think it should or should not be.

Other "evidence" that it is other than what may have been given above...Pat met with Don Jr. at least once in his NY office and posted it here. I assume since they share hunting at least in common there is a relationship that is positive. Again, don't assume this is a negative.

Secondly, Trax has always been a pro-Trump advocate in his posts. He registers as 'S Z' from Wisconsin. Would you be able to register with two initials and with what you post be able to remain active on BS?

But, if you don't like it, find an anti-Trump site or start your own maybe.

No offense intended to anyone.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
“Without dialogue and debate there is no hope.”

Trax- Is that what you call what you do here?

23-Jun-20
So, why can't all hunters just get along for the common goal? I have seen this asked many times on this forum.

Well, because it is more complex than simply a choice of hunting weapon. There are people here who obviously support those who are against hunting, trapping, and even gun ownership. Better pick your camp mates carefully, there are enemies within the ranks.

From: JohnMC
23-Jun-20
What is funny neither of the 2 lefties posting above can give examples of either right wing extremist that are leaders in Republican party or moderate democrat leaders within their party. It is very telling.

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
Of course it is, because it doesn't fit your narrative and your definition of a self absorbed liberal agenda it offends you. Like with all narcissist liberals. Oh I have some fun but I post facts. It is the ACU that says Trump is the most conservative president in the modern era, quite a bit more so than Reagan. I can see that for myself but they post the break downs. It is obvious for all to see a large percentile if not majority of those tearing down monuments and committing crimes are white. It has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with their hatred of America. They themselves claim to be anarchists or Marxists. Those are facts. But of course, you liberals cling to your own mantra. It's all you have.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Missouribreaks- I couldn’t disagree more. You and your way of thinking...trying to make enemies out of fellow hunters is what divides and hurts us the most.

Yes, beware of camp mates.

23-Jun-20
So be it, I will never support Socialism.

From: JohnMC
23-Jun-20
No one is try to make enemies out of fellow hunters. One of my favorite guys to hunt with and share a elk camp with each year politics are the opposite of mine. We just don't talk politics at least mostly. If anyone is trying to divide hunters it lefties like you KS. You and DanaC and a couple more know you believes are the minority here. If you want to get along and talk hunting when 80 or 90 percent of members are conservative then come talk hunting and stay out of the politics but you don't you dive in head first and bicker every chance you get.

Another hobby of my is taking pictures. I am not great at it but getting better. I spend time on photograph forums and my guess is my political beliefs differ from many on those forums and for that reason I stick to taking pictures. Plenty of places on the world wide web that your views line up with you can talk politics. But if you are going to do it on bowsite you can't spew your leftist views and talk about dividing hunters. It makes you a hypocrite.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Missouribreaks- If you support the Trump checks you were supporting socialism. If you pay into and receive social security you support socialism. If you believe in farm subsidies then you support socialism.

You don’t support social security or Medicare? Did you get a Trump check?

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
If my fellow hunter was a bank robber or a murderer he would be my enemy. Doesn't matter he is a hunter. So what flatlander is saying we should happily accept an America hating Marxist in our camp because he is a hunter. So then the thief and the murderer too? Where do we draw that line?

Bottom line is these criminals on the streets "protesting" should have been put down on the ground and arrested at the very first crime. From day 1. This is not civil disobedience we are seeing, it is an anarchist or Marxist political movement depending on the crowd. Oh the blind and dumb sheep think they are just protesting, but the criminals know better. They know what they're really after. First thing is to remove the America loving conservative from the White House.

From: Matt
23-Jun-20
This is the same thing we see the same thing with the Hollywood elites, sho people surround themselves with like-minded people and build barriers between themselves and those who aren't. My observation is that mindset doesn't help people generate informed opinions. Not only do they lack exposure to the full picture to do so, but they also exclude to challenge them. That often results in who poorly formed opinions.

From: 4nolz@work
23-Jun-20
Please post a link to a bowhunting site that is pro-Biden.I think your original question was rhetorical.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Trax- So because I don’t subscribe to your philosophies and labels I’m now an “America hating Marxist.” I think that says more about you than me.

You should post on the fishing thread cause you caught some whoppers of red herrings. Your logical fallacies are unending.

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
And your ability to comprehend is child like. I never said YOU were a Marxist KSflat. I don't know but I rather doubt it. Your own attempt with Missouribreaks is what I was referring to. You make it sound like just because somebody is a hunter we should open our door to them no matter their belief system. See, belief systems matter. The criminals and other assorted scum I see defacing public property and storming businesses under the guise of "civil disobedience" would not be sharing my camp fire. Hunter or not.

23-Jun-20
No way to reason with these antihunters among us. Their cronies and supporters even vandalized the Ulysses S. Grant statue, who fought for their bloody cause. Crazy! Almost as crazy as somebody who hunts actually supporting AOC, Biden and their crew. Wow, no wonder we are slipping as a nation.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
And that is a text book example of a red herring(s).

Good day to the both of you. I wish you the best of luck this season.

23-Jun-20
Out of respect for other prohunters and Bowsite, I will stop posting. There was likely a reason the Community Forum was abandoned.

From: yooper89
23-Jun-20
"Out of respect for other prohunters and Bowsite, I will stop posting. There was likely a reason the Community Forum was abandoned."

In the coming weeks, Bowsite will be communicating those changes to us. They appreciate our understanding.

From: TD
23-Jun-20
Well.... a very good case could be made for hunters selling out their "own" and choosing/voting leftist ideology over hunting, gun rights, censorship..... rights in general. Hunting for them is something they are OK with throwing into the fire if it furthers "the cause". Then accusing others of "excluding" hunters as they literally support those who would do away with it. Whistling past the graveyard..... I hear hunters saying "we shouldn't be talking politics", and there was a time long ago I would have agreed. But then there wasn't much of an organized, and POLITICAL, drive to eliminate it in any and every way possible. Now if you "don't want to be involved in politics" then you'll be OK with your loss of hunting. Doing nothing, trying to ignore it, is actually making a choice. Just maybe not the one you thought it was.

Conservatives (not Republicans, who I consider a good number as Swamp born and bred) are not excluding anyone, nor are they trying to remove rights we CURRENTLY have such as the 1st and 2nd amendments. They don't want your money for nothing and everything else for free. Don't care what your skin color is, just get to work, on time and do good work, support your family and try to live a decent honest life. And leave everyone else the 'ell alone. They aren't telling you what you can and can't say. If you can own guns or what kind (guess that whole "nobody needs a black rifle/high cap mags" BS is blown out of the water now) What kind of car you can drive. How much money you can make or how much is fair for you to keep. How much or what kind of personal property you are ALLOWED to own. Or if you can go hunting. Or even what you can bring home after you hunt. Be nice if they'd quit burning down, destroying and stealing what others have actually worked for (YOU may not have "built that" but somebody did....) Be nice if somebody with the local authority found the balls to tell them you can't do that. Stop it. And not have to go to "or else". Maybe give the police some support and help to keep your neighborhoods safe from crime. Be nice if "but I'm angry" was no excuse for anything but rising your voice.

Much was said about the choices we have here in this upcoming election and how poor they are. Those complaining..... what did they do to find a better candidate and support and get someone they wanted elected? Or are you just showing up and looking at the menu? I know I didn't do much but to vote. (Primaries as well as general) A large number don't do either. But will still complain.

Honestly, I consider myself pretty lucky to live in a country were I at least have a menu even if I did next to nothing to obtain the food or prepare it. But again in all honesty, it seems there is a fairly well defined menu as to what kind of food you want to eat, if not necessarily the recipe. Or rather as choices go...... what kind of country you will be ALLOWED to live in....

From: Trax
23-Jun-20
Well thought out and communicated TD. Hunters not only should want to talk politics, they must. They must or there will be a day not to far away where hunting as we know it will be gone. Maybe in time all forms of our sport. The real issue here is the tyranny these anarchists and Marxists bring. Oh most of the sheep are nothing more than members of their flock, they will honestly claim they themselves are not of that mold. But yet these same sheep will support their causes and vote for their candidates. The same people who support the "protesters" and claim we must give hearing to their views and actions. No matter how criminal. Talk now and support our rights as hunters or bow to those who will tell you what you can say and will tell you what you will think.

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
"Missouribreaks- If you support the Trump checks you were supporting socialism. If you pay into and receive social security you support socialism. "

Why argue with someone so simple minded they don't know the difference between social programs and socialism?

From: Ambush
23-Jun-20

Ambush's embedded Photo
Ambush's embedded Photo

From: sleepyhunter
23-Jun-20
This is a great thread, glad I took a few minutes to visit Bowsite. Trump 2020.

From: bigeasygator
23-Jun-20
"There was likely a reason the Community Forum was abandoned"

I don't know that it was...top two most active threads on the front page have zero to do with bowhunting and seem like they'd be more appropriate for the CF.

From: Jaquomo
23-Jun-20
If you pay into and receive Social Security and Medicare you are simply cashing out an annuity you paid into for your entire working life, except with a ridiculously low interest rate.

23-Jun-20
If you pay into Social Security and Medicare, you’re following the law as you have no choice but to pay your taxes. Being a law-abiding citizen doesn’t make you a Socialist. You can’t just opt out of paying Social Security or Medicare taxes.

From: DanaC
23-Jun-20
“When you do testing to that extent, you’re going to find more people,” Trump said during the rally. “You’re going to find more cases. So I said to my people, ‘Slow the testing down, please.’”

From: JL
23-Jun-20
Interesting thread turn....as a retired military bubba....I of course get a monthly govt check. I've had discussions with folks who never served and they consider a military retiree check as a welfare check. You try to explain to them that you had a business agreement with the govt. If you commit to and work for the govt for X amount of years, you will earn a monthly retirement check from said govt. You and the govt both freely agree to the terms. The retiree lived up to his/her contract and the govt lives up to their end of the contract....it's as simple as that. Some folks can't comprehend that.

From: DanaC
23-Jun-20
Less doctors, more political hacks beholden to Trump. Yeah, that will help us.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/23/trump-cdc-overhaul-coronavirus-335039

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
Looks like the "slow the testing down" joke went right over the heads of the low IQ liberals. No surprise.

From: bigswivle
23-Jun-20
“ I can't help but laugh at that lame-ass 'CNN' jibe. I don't watch television but anyone who argues against Trump is a 'liberal' who 'gets their news from CNN'. That is simple-minded propaganda from the Trump cult of personality and has no bearing on the topic. Like every other 'ad hominem' argument, it's lame. Do better, swabs.”

Weeeeeellllll if u don’t watch TV anymore how can you make this argument?

From: 4nolz@work
23-Jun-20
PigDoc it's not low IQ it's lack of a sense of humor, so much outrage.

From: JohnMC
23-Jun-20
What this thread made apparent is those on the left don't even try to defend what the left stands for. It is all Republicans bad and I hate Trump and you should to. Only thing I saw missing was Ziek and his old tried Rhetoric.

From: Grey Ghost
23-Jun-20
Anyone notice that the non-hunting threads, that would usually be on the CF, get the most attention here on the Big Game forums? Funny that.

Matt

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
Yep. Wonder how many clicks they lost when they killed the CF.

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
"Less doctors, more political hacks beholden to Trump. Yeah, that will help us. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/23/trump-cdc-overhaul-coronavirus-335039"

So you believe the fear porn you read in Politico? Just another propaganda publication spewing lies of the DNC. No wonder you are so mixed up. Try some real news sources now and then.

From: DanaC
23-Jun-20
" Weeeeeellllll if u don’t watch TV anymore how can you make this argument? " There are other news sources than the idiot box. News papers, web sites, magazines etc. etc.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Pig Doc- kind of splitting hairs on socialists aren’t you. What do you think a socialist economy is made of. I’ll give you a hint...SOCIAL PROGRAMS. No matter how you want to spin it we have a blend of a capitalistic and socialist economy/government. Ask any economist.

And social security and Medicare are social programs. You are not taking back dollar for dollar put in otherwise it would never go broke like it is.

Trump was only kidding. Who are you BSing? I have heard him say it twice now. Seriously you need some real news. Maybe try your eyes and ears when watching Trump talk.

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
"Pig Doc- kind of splitting hairs on socialists aren’t you. What do you think a socialist economy is made of. I’ll give you a hint...SOCIAL PROGRAMS. No matter how you want to spin it we have a blend of a capitalistic and socialist economy/government. Ask any economist."

No economist would agree. You have no clue regarding the difference between socialism and social programs in a free market society. Spend some time educating yourself and then come back here. Very concerning when supposedly educated adults can't figure out the difference between social programs, which every capitalistic free market society has and true socialism. No wonder you have liberals that haven't a clue what someone like Bernie Sanders would do to our country.

From: Grey Ghost
23-Jun-20
I love pork.

Matt.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
You think we have a total free market society and an absolute capitalistic economy?

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
For the low IQ liberals here. Socialism = a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. In other words the government takes over private industry and controls the production of goods, services, energy, etc. This is what Bernie, AOC, Talib, Pelosi, et. al. are after. Not overnight, but one step at a time. The Green New Deal is exhibit one. Bernie is a Marxist and has his hooks in Biden.

Markets and social policies are two different things.

Social programs = cash assistance, healthcare and medical provisions, food assistance, housing subsidies, energy and utilities subsidies, education and childcare assistance, and subsidies and assistance for other basic services. I think we can all agree there is some degree of social services needed. I hope we can all agree we don't want a socialist system of government.

From: Ambush
23-Jun-20
Big “S” socialist is small “c” communist.

From: Tonybear61
23-Jun-20
BarelythereBiden.com

23-Jun-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
I absolutely agree that we do not want a solely socialist society. But you have to be completely dumb or ignorant not to know or understand that social programs are forms of socialism because they are definitely not born out capitalism.

Yes, Bernie and AOC promote more social programs. However, Bernie lost in the primary and AOC is one representative out of 435. The free market system is still here and our democratic system work? The fear tactics are childish.

You want to compare IQs or maybe we should go in the bathroom and compare? Your adolescent insults say everything I need to know about you. Grow the h#%l up. I can definitely see why you like Trump.

From: Grey Ghost
23-Jun-20
For the record, I love my friend Pig Doc, even though he’s completely misguided on renewable energy resources.

Bitches. :-).

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
Funny stuff GG!

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
"I absolutely agree that we do not want a solely socialist society. But you have to be completely dumb or ignorant not to know or understand that social programs are forms of socialism because they are definitely not born out capitalism. Yes, Bernie and AOC promote more social programs. "

No, Bernie and AOC promote socialism. When you educate yourself on the difference between socialism and social programs in a free market economy come back here and we will have a debate. Until then I have better things to do than argue with dopes.

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Well bye

From: Pig Doc
23-Jun-20
I'm going nowhere. Low IQ libs don't scare me a bit. Here's your fist quiz.

Is the Green New Deal a social program or socialism?

23-Jun-20
Damn I’ll be glad when elk season starts!

From: KSflatlander
23-Jun-20
Answer my question above first.

You think we have a total free market and a purely capitalistic economy?

From: Bowbender
24-Jun-20

Bowbender's Link
"You think we have a total free market and a purely capitalistic economy?"

Let me know if this is a self-sustaining model? This so called altruistic mix of socialism and capitalism. It WILL implode under the weight of it's current outlay, not to mention the programs suggested by the AOC, Bernie, Liarwatha, Omar.....all the ones you pooh pooh....... You minimize their efforts. Let's not forget someone came up with the brilliant idea of appropriating 13% of my income for 40-50 years with the promise of a 1-2% return.

24-Jun-20
Pat just wanted me to come on and tell you guys that he’s still debating on bringing back your community forum. Thanks for your patience.

From: LINK
24-Jun-20
I like Trumps fight back attitude and name calling 95% of the time. Without fighting back he would have been ran out of office all ready. The name calling (labeling) is highly affective. Sure the 10% of the time he should keep his mouth shut is annoying but I want a fighter. It’s very hard for a fighter to put his ego and hubris to the side part of the time. If he could it would be an act and I’m tired of political actors.

From: 4nolz@work
24-Jun-20
its hard to imagine a POTUS taking this kind of open daily abuse including the "Mainstream Media" it will be interesting to see how the "Media" handles future Presidents.Obama was untouchable or you were a Racist,Hilary would have been untouchable or you would have been called a sexist,Trump is an easy target white,man,rich.

From: Rocky D
24-Jun-20
The last time I heard Democrats talking about IQs was when they were saying that Obama had a 125. I told them that no one in my family had one that low!

If IQs were a litmus then we would use them more for college admissions. I will is far more important than IQ. IQ is your ability to learn not that you are smarter or no more but what should I expect from an elitist perspective.

Democrats should easily win the election but they have trouble producing a viable candidate. Hillary was not and Joe may win but it does not take a high IQ to know that Biden’s bus has left the station.

My big question for Democratic hunters is why support a party that doesn’t support you?

From: JohnMC
24-Jun-20
Rocky- I have yet to see a Democratic on here be able to explain why they vote democratic. They mostly bitch about Trump but not about what his has accomplished, only they don't like his tweets. They are embarrassed to admit they are a liberal. Most Conservative Republicans can tell you why they vote the way they do and proud to call themselves Conservative. Once their message gets to long to fit on a bumper stickers or a 140 character tweet they are in trouble.

From: Rocky D
24-Jun-20
JohnMC - thats a pretty good summation,Thx!

From: KSflatlander
24-Jun-20
I’m a proud liberal. I’m accepting of different cultures, people, and ideas. I have voted democrat in the past because of their socially liberal platform.

There...I popped your cherry.

From: Rocky D
24-Jun-20
Ks- I do not need to discuss anything with you since you base your vote on a socially liberal platform because that is just a vehicle to gain power. Once they are in control then they will exert power over those that put them their. Now if had based on something more substantive like economy or defense of the country that be worthy discussion but to in with those that see themselves as victims or those they think that the are fighting for the victims. We all no the best way to not be a victim is to defend yourself but that would be to empowering for those desire control.

From: Trax
24-Jun-20
So KSflat is "proud" to be a liberal. You say you voted Democrat Socialist Party because of their social platform? You mean welfare and hand outs to those who do not need it? Paid for by borrowing more money and taxing the working man to pay for it? You mean butchering babies on demand? You care not that they fiscally stifle our economy with unnecessary regulation and high taxes. You vote for them because they in their stupidity call a man a woman and a dog a cat while demanding we all do?

Well then answer me this and don't run away balling ignoring it like you did last time. What opinions should we "learn" from and "share"? That cops are bad and criminals are good? That all lives matter or only one shade? That terrorist groups like Antifa should be "considered"? That the rats who literally take over police precincts and city blocks should be "listened" to?

From: JohnMC
24-Jun-20
Trax I figure KSflatbrimmer makes his living off of unnecessary regulation and that is were his liberalism comes from. Most of the time it help to know where someone sits before they tell you where they stand.

From: Bowbender
24-Jun-20
"I’m accepting of different cultures, people, and ideas."

Me too. It's not exclusive to liberals. Those people and cultures.....come here legally, no issue.

Kinda funny.....most protests I see are definitely NOT accepting of other cultures, people and ideas. You must be that rare 1%.

From: Wild Bill
24-Jun-20
Pat,

Between this thread and flattening the curve, I would say a restoration of the community forum is in order. I sure would not want to be the moderator and have to read the crap the left is posting as factual. Then again, maybe that's why it no longer is available,,,,,Hmmmmm, dilemma here.

From: Beav
24-Jun-20
Agree Wild Bill! Some great posters rarely visit this site anymore because of all the crap that is going on here.

From: Trax
24-Jun-20
I agree Bill. What I fear is in the end the liberals and America hating socialists win because only their voice is heard. We WILL be told what we can not only say but what we can think when that happens. That is one of their goals in order to accomplish their end. We will see not only an end to hunting but the rise of a great tyranny if that were to happen....

24-Jun-20
I say give the CF back to them and let em' run rogue. We need our bowhunting site back.

From: KSflatlander
24-Jun-20
Ok, I’m responding line by line but I’m not going to own everything that you think is negatively related to Democrats. I’m independent and sometimes I’m what you would call “liberal” sometimes “conservative.”

1. I think a social safety net or welfare has its place. Is isn’t always run appropriately but we should take care of each other in hard times...temporarily. I’m ok with some of my hard earned tax money paying for it.

2. My abortion stance is the same as Trump.

3. I believe under Bill Clinton’s watch was the last time we had a deficit surplus. We will never be there again with out appropriate tax structure.

4. I support many Environmenal regulations because of my values. Most of the regulations were passed by a conservative president in the 70s. We still were an economic powerhouse country in spite of the progressive environmental regulations. We know by our own history that economic progress and environmental regulations are not mutually exclusive.

5. I think government should stay out of our bedrooms. My son is gay and he should be able to legally marry.

6. Antifa is not supported by me or the Democrat party no more than republicans support white supremacists.

7. I support the protests (not looting) and the police. So does most Americans and democrats.

You make a lot of assumptions about me because I’m liberal. You have to know that generalization never hold water and people don’t fit into your neat little boxes. Sorry if that scares you.

Lastly, I’m a life long bowhunter and love being in the woods. I’m not your enemy.

From: Trax
24-Jun-20
Nobody would deny the truly needy welfare help to help them get on their feet. When we talk of welfare and related social programs that is not what the Democrat Socialist Party is about. So you have a quite conservative stance on abortion. Mine even more so. Slick Willy had nothing to do with a balanced budget, he was just smart enough to sign on to it (in order to get a little of what he wanted.) Newt Gingrich and company balanced that budget. Common sense enviro regulations everyone is in favor of. Most are not common sense and many are actually harmful. I don't care about the bedroom as long as I don't have to hear about it. I do care about reality, and a man is not a woman or vice versa regardless of what a hatchet can do. Do YOU or the Democrat Socialist Party support BLM? BLM is anti-Semantic and by their own admission Marxist. They also support terrorist groups like Antifa. And there ARE members of your Party that DO directly support Antifa. I support protests that are legal. That means they have permits and they do no damage. Anything else is not a protest. Nothing about you and other liberals scare me or anyone else in any way. The support of the sheep though does indeed become crucial to the advancement of exactly what we are seeing in the streets today. America hating anarchy and a march towards Marxism.

From: Bowbender
24-Jun-20
"I say give the CF back to them and let em' run rogue. We need our bowhunting site back."

At last count, there were seventeen discrete Bowsite topics. I'd say its vastly bowhunting. And it's not "ours". It's Pat's. If he and the mods are letting it stand, than so be it. Check out the other 17 topics.

From: Bobmeister
24-Jun-20

Bobmeister's embedded Photo
Bobmeister's embedded Photo

From: KSflatlander
24-Jun-20
God bless you Trax. I’m not sure where your anger comes from but your generalization are negatively labeling the majority of Americans. How can you possibly ever think your negativity is ever going to positively affect those around you.

I think your searching for right and wrong and I’m looking for understanding. We are just too far apart but we realize we both share bowhunting. Chill with the labels and name calling. I promise it doesn’t have the effect you desire.

From: 1boonr
24-Jun-20
What difference does it make if we have a separate community forum? If you don’t want to read this crap don’t.

24-Jun-20
Oh, you don’t say, bowbender? Wow, thanks. Also for the reminder this is Pats site, there’s a no s—t comment.

24-Jun-20
The partial birth abortion pic above is inaccurate. Their arms and legs are typically in the fetal position, not flaccid like that. Also, most of these are done in the 2nd trimester and they don't have big eyelashes like a 6-9 month old baby that's depicted. Lastly, they look more like a fetus and less like a baby.

Other than that, the picture is pretty accurate.

From: yooper89
24-Jun-20
I tHoUgHt ThIs WaS bOwSiTe

From: Bowbender
24-Jun-20
"Oh, you don’t say, bowbender? Wow, thanks. Also for the reminder this is Pats site, there’s a no s—t comment."

And yet you feel the need to comment (again) on a thread you insinuate to be detrimental to the Bowsite. As for the term "our" bowhunting site..... See, words.....well they mean things...

From: TD
24-Jun-20
LOL!

Kinda like somebody finding a Big Un's magazine on somebodies coffee table and complaining about how could someone publish such a thing, this is awful..... as they riffle through and can't put it down..... =D

From: Fuzzy
25-Jun-20
JohnMC I make my living off of (mostly) unnecessary regulation and it's made me even MORE conservative. LOL

From: 4nolz@work
25-Jun-20
"you hang up"

"no you hang up"

"you go first..hang up"

"OK on the count of 3 1...2...3..."

I had conversations like this in 10th grade on a paty line with my girlfriend

no one is changing their minds

From: Bake
25-Jun-20
Just like when the Community Forum existed, I just wonder where people find the time. . . . I guess posting on Bowsite is a hobby in itself. Whenever I thought I spent too much time on bowsite, I'd go to a big CF post and see the same 6 guys arguing for 400 posts, and then I'd think "Maybe I don't spend that much time on Bowsite."

From: Hancock West
25-Jun-20
Where's biden? oh thats right he forgot where the upstairs door was from the basement?

From: DanaC
25-Jun-20
Biden is playing it smart, as in, never interrupt your opponent when he's shooting himself in the foot.

From: bowbender77
25-Jun-20
FYI ...Biden and smart do not go together, just sayin.

From: JohnMC
25-Jun-20
Biden probably forgot who is opponent is. He might not even know what he is running for.

From: buci 313
25-Jun-20
DOES ANYONE STILL WONDER ? Why we can never unite as hunters for our own benefit !

A SIMPLE POST THAT HAS TURNED INTO SUCH A PATHETIC POST !

With all of the name calling, inaccuracies, labeling of folks and just plain disgust of one another is just plain disgusting !

PAT, I had more respect for you and bowsite. I am surprised you have allowed this to remain up regardless of personal politics !

Don Harris

From: DanaC
25-Jun-20
Agreed.

25-Jun-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Lol...Need a safe place?!?

From: BowSniper
25-Jun-20
Honest question - Do the Biden supporters here think he has the stamina and mental sharpness to go the whole 4 years if he wins?

If not, then his VP pick becomes the real election choice... and Biden has some real losers in line as he panders to the radical left.

And I will always choose national security over open borders, capitalism over socialism, law & order over anarchy, the 2nd Amendment over gun control, and America first over the globalist agenda.

From: Trax
25-Jun-20
"Trax. I’m not sure where your anger comes from"

What anger KS? There is no anger. Name calling? Calling a liberal a liberal, a leftist a leftist, a Marxist a Marxist, Antifa a terrorist group etc etc. That's calling a duck a duck. Simple truths, simple fact. At least you admit you're liberal, credit to you. Many liberals try to dodge "labels". I do think you may be confused by what the term means in totality. You can be extremely conservative but very open to other ideals. Informed people can more easily see the beginning and end game and quickly call a duck a duck. A very large segment of liberals are simply blind dumb sheep. These "protests" are a great demonstration of that. Most involved are not bad people, but they are following bad people. So easily led, so misinformed.

From: TD
25-Jun-20
And they STILL can't put the ta-ta magazine down..... as they complain about it..... amazing.....

If it's so upsetting.... why keep coming back and reading it? And posting another complaint? Just move along and clic on something else..... nothing to see here..... move along.....

I don't have the metrics but I'd bet offhand these threads currently have the highest clics by FAR. Unless you think it REALLY matters what broadhead to shoot an elk with..... or better yet, what camo is best when sitting in a tree waiting for a deer to walk by.....

Not paying any attention to politics, (ideologies actually) in a time where hunting is clearly and constantly under attack is dangerous..... And YES, nearly 100% all from the left, INARGUABLY from the left no matter what those who defend it say. Facts are facts, what your wife or girlfriend tell you you should believe don't change facts, that's where the attacks on hunting are coming from. Those who wish to ignore such things will soon enough have no reason to visit Bowsite any longer. Those left in power due to apathy from hunters might let you shoot targets and dress up for LARP events, but kill something with a sharp stick???

Those pushing a leftist agenda, from a hunting site no less.... will tell you there's nothing going on here, pay it no attention and look the other way.... and certainly don't work up any enthusiasm in opposition..... stay calm as we strip away your freedoms and rights.... sit down and shut up.... it's for your own good don'cha know....

Those who think hunting and politics currently have no place together have their heads........ um, lets just say, in the sand. Being Karen's at heart, these people won't stop, they won't voluntarily leave you alone, they HAVE to have control. They must be MADE to leave you alone and the only legal way to do that is to elect those who will enforce your rights and freedoms, not kneel and sell them out to some special interest group with a catchy name in an effort to gain their favor with the stongest Virtue Signalling game.....

From: lamb
25-Jun-20
don harris don't like it. don't click on the link. simple?????

From: Trax
25-Jun-20
TD and lamb correct. Quit whining, if you don't like it beat it and don't come back. If you don't like history don't study it. If you don't like the news don't watch it. Stay misinformed and out of touch. Apathy is what will end all hunting, in time.

25-Jun-20
Lamb is actually right though...No body is forcing anyone else to read this (quite entertaining by the way), but a few find It uncomfortable and want change! Sound familiar.....? Because one doesn’t like it, we must change it for everyone!

Need a safe place yet?!? :-)

From: Trax
25-Jun-20
You got it Ike. There's nothing more the leftists and anti-hunters would like more than to shut down all blogs where conservatives talk common sense. Take our voice away, and not only is hunting gone but tyranny takes hold.

From: Ambush
25-Jun-20

Ambush's embedded Photo
Ambush's embedded Photo

From: Bowbender
26-Jun-20
"Biden is playing it smart,...."

Joe Biden's mind is a like a web browser. 19 tabs are open, 17 are frozen and he has no idea where the music is coming from.

From: sleepyhunter
26-Jun-20
""" I think government should stay out of our bedrooms. My son is gay and he should be able to legally marry.""

This is a personal problem.

"" I don't care about the bedroom as long as I don't have to hear about it.""

Exactly.

From: Shug
26-Jun-20
Pro normalcy rather than pro Trump

From: splitlimb13
27-Jun-20

splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo

From: splitlimb13
27-Jun-20
Trax,

WELL PUT! AGREE 100%

From: 3rd Degree
27-Jun-20
RIGHT = FOR Individual rights

LEFT = AGAINST individual rights

I know which side I am on!

We don't all have to agree, nor should we. Our government should be Pro American. And so should our people. Individual liberty, folks. I'll keep mine, you keep yours. Worked pretty good for 250 years. Stop telling me what I have to believe and I won't force my opinions on you......

28-Jun-20
I’m registered as a Democrat but I’m way more middle of the road independent than democrat. I hate trump, have always hated him since the apprentice. I hate his wealthy, greedy, narcissistic, selfish, bullying values. They go against everything I stand for. That being said, I also think Biden is a total moron and he’ll do as much damage to this country as Trump has. I think that trump has changed the Republican Party for the worse and the Democratic Party is just as bad. If trump would just shut his mouth, stop tweeting and attacking everyone on the planet so damn much, he’d probably do a better job running this country and possibly get my vote in November because his economy was great. But he won’t because he’s a fat bully that tans too much.

From: Tonybear61
28-Jun-20
Barelytherebiden.com y Nuff said abou that guy.

Oh and the issue about his son in Ukraine.. Then there was the truck driver and his family Joe tried destroy due to an accident where the trucker was not at fault. The sexual assault claims, inappropriate touching..

Know why I am so pissed at the Dems? cause I used to be one.

From: Will tell
28-Jun-20
I try to stay away from political discussions. I'm a independent, I'm not believing all Democrats or Republicans are bad. The two party system is broke. One thing I'm sure of is when there are people in need we as Americans help each other. Both political parties try to separate us because of our different opinions.

There one thing I'm sure of is that career politicians are not good for a Democracy. Three terms and kick thier butts out and make them get a real job. Kick the lobbyists out of Washington and get people in offices who are more loyal to the people and the Constitution and less loyal to their political parties.

From: Tilzbow
28-Jun-20
During the last presidential campaign I got a visit by a sweet elderly lady who was campaigning for Trump. We talked very briefly and the conversation went something like this.

Me, “I’m a life long moderate conservative, can’t stand Hillary and there’s no way I’ll vote for her but I’m not sure I can vote for Trump either because he acts like such an idiot sometimes....”

Her response, “Well since he’s an egotistical narcissist you know he’ll do a good job.”

From: 1boonr
28-Jun-20

From: 4nolz@work
28-Jun-20
If you don't like either candidate vote for the future of the Supreme Court

From: Ziek
28-Jun-20
The OP was do you support Trump, not are you a Republican or Democrat.

I WAS a registered Republican my entire voting life - until a couple of weeks ago when I changed to Independent. I voted for the Republican candidate in every national election until Trump. The Republican Party I knew is GONE. Every responsible, ethical, moral, TRUE Republican has either left in frustration, been forced out, or fired if not an elected position. The only ones left are ass-kissers. Trump was, and is, unqualified, unsuitable, and incompetent. His ONLY qualification was, he ran AS a Republican. That simply is not enough for me. His only concern has always been and always will be for HIMSELF. He spent his entire life promoting Trump; financially and to feed his ego. He is using the Presidency to the same end.

Let's review his party affiliation over the years.

Until he was 41 years old in 1987 - Democrat.

1987 - 1999 - Republican.

1999 - 2001 - Reform.

2001 - 2009 - Democrat.

2009 - 2011 - Republican.

2011 - 2012 Independent.

2012 - present Republican.

Does that look like someone with strong convictions or someone looking for the best deal?

Other history: Proud draft dodger. Every time I see one of you thanking a vet for their service and yet supporting Trump, it rings pretty hollow to me.

Bragged about grabbing women by...(I'm sure you've heard it).

Has said many times about others "if you're hiding something you must be guilty of something". I'll take him at his word. Let's see HIS tax returns! As well as other documents he keeps trying to suppress.

His playboy lifestyle has cost the taxpayers more than any other modern-day President with much of that money going to HIS properties.

I fully understand not wanting to support or vote for a Democrat, but that's not the same as supporting an absolute pig of a man that has never done anything for anyone but himself. His motives are and always will be for his own self interest. He's using "Republicans", or maybe just anti-Democrats, to enrich himself, and amazingly, with some success. I hope, and it appears that maybe, the country is waking up.

I also know that all of this will fall on deaf ears on this site. It's obvious you're all committed.

From: Glunt@work
28-Jun-20
I'll vote in the best interest of America. Looks like there won't be a choice to vote for a person who's personality and character fit my idea of what a President should be (like usual), so that's a wash. It comes down to who will be my best shot at enacting good policy and blocking bad policy just like it was in 2016.

There are millions of smart, skilled, decent, upstanding people in America who have the correct views. Hopefully I will have an opportunity to vote for one someday in the general election without that vote being just a statement or possibly benefiting the worst candidate.

My eyes are wide open.

Do I support Trump? That depends. Do I want him dating my sister or teaching my kids about morality, manners and ethics? No. As a firewall against where the left and the establishment in DC is taking us? Yes.

From: Ziek
28-Jun-20
I hear you Glunt. but, we have survived Democrat Presidents in the past, and we're talking about Biden not Sanders. We have NO experience with the lasting ramifications of someone like Trump. His persona, personality, and ego are far more like a dictator than a president. That's how he lived his life and ran/runs his companies and how he is trying to re-make the Presidency. The longer he is in office, the scarier it gets. The other part of this is, we simply WON'T have a Republican President from this time forward. The longer he is in office, and the more he polarizes the country, the farther left will likely be the swing. If we can't find a way to compromise and work together, we're ALL in deep shit.

From: Annony Mouse
28-Jun-20
Amazing....ignore the Bowsite for a while and then see this thread. Recently any thread of this sort ended up being sent to the dump...and not just certain comments. Entire thread echos what was once seen on the Community Forum...opps...mentioned that, so this post will probably be deleted. Carry on.

From: PECO
28-Jun-20
I am a member of Bowsite, I am anti Killary, and anti Creepy uncle Joe. I will vote for Trump again, but it won't matter, Colorado is too far gone blue.

From: Annony Mouse
28-Jun-20
Like him or not, Trump is the only firewall between our Constitution and the dreams and goals of the Democrat Communist Party.

The Democrats have already shown where they will take this country:

1. Eliminate the Second Amendment 2. Stack the Supreme Court 3. Remove American history 4. Eliminate legal immigration with an open border policy 5. Make the working American taxpayer to pay for benefits for those who will not or cannot contribute to the country 6. Force demonstrably failed socialistic policies upon the American citizen (health care, "free" everything 7. Support radical groups that openly and wantedly break civil law...riot, burn private property, loot. 8. Invalidate all elections via ballot harvesting, no need for ID, mail in ballots, etc.

From: splitlimb13
28-Jun-20
^^^^^^ absolutely right! Once the dumb ass liberals take over( hopefully I'm dead by then) I do believe there will be war in the streets of America. The liberals/Democrats are nothing but domestic terrorists who will need to be dealt with soon. I am a strong believer, as are many of you that we work hard to make a living, or make a difference, the new American dream seems to be throw a fit and cry until you get your way..... Idiots are LITERALLY tearing up and burning down our country right before our eyes ! When is it going to be enough? When do we stop taking their s h i t ? Liberals can spend millions of dollars in tax payer money to for the last four years to try and impeach the president. Why do they get away with this crap!?! People can bag on President Trump all they want, he has my vote. If it wasn't him in office right now this country would be in even worse shape than it is now!

From: DanaC
28-Jun-20
One thing this thread show for certain is how many people deal only in absolutes.

28-Jun-20
Jack,

Were not a bunch of you saying the exact same thing prior to Obama being elected? And then the people voted for Trump and reversed course. I still have faith in Americans, mostly.

From: JL
28-Jun-20
Ziek sez....."His persona, personality, and ego are far more like a dictator than a president. That's how he lived his life and ran/runs his companies and how he is trying to re-make the Presidency. The longer he is in office, the scarier it gets."

Ziek......you have me curious. Aside from the thinking Prez Trump is a Type A person and sends too many tweeties, what policy or action has he taken you disagree with? Go back over the last 3.5 years and look at every decision or policy he did or signed.

From: Trax
28-Jun-20
Ziek, you are either confused or blatantly ignorant on every one of your attempted points or you are a liberal here to pimp for the Democrat Socialists pretending to be a long lost Republican. I am not a Republican, I am a true Independent and have been for a long time. I have always been a conservative. I did not support Trump in the primary, grudgingly supported him against the Hildabeast. Nobody could have possibly been worse than she and her cabal. My hesitation with Trump was exactly the unknown. Hilda was a known, a corrupt leftist and globalist. My fear was Trump would at best be moderate and possibly liberal. He has surprised me. He has been the most conservative president in the modern era, much more than Reagan according to the ACU. He has scored tremendous success on issue after issue. Probably the very best thing is the 200 federal judges and 2 Justices he has put on our courts. A extremely conservative lot overall. Trump has been exactly what the a Republican Party desperately needed, a true conservative that puts America first. Reagan wasn’t as conservative by record and he tried to put America first, but he was far too beholden to Party and old school establishment. Trump is not, he works for we the people and throws the power establishment under the bus. That’s why they hate him so much, and that hatred does attract the blind and easily led sheep. Not only the Republican Party, President Trump has been the best thing for America. We desperately need the exact same kind of conservative leadership for 4 more years. And hopefully 8 more after that by another conservative.

From: JL
28-Jun-20
^....."Trump is not, he works for we the people and throws the power establishment under the bus. That’s why they hate him so much, and that hatred does attract the blind and easily led sheep."

IMO that is a valid point I don't think has been touched on yet. Clearly the Dems, left-wing types and their PR agencies in the media dislike Prez Trump. You also have to add the old guard, establishment Repub types also dislike Prez Trump......George Conway (Kellie Ann's hubby for the moment), Bill Krystal, McCain's and Bush's come to mind. One thing about Prez Trump that gets him into trouble, maybe a good kind of trouble, is he is not PC. IMO he should drop the name calling shtick. It may play in NY and Jersey but it does not play well the 2nd time around. Don't get into tweetie arguments over the small stuff. Let the minions take care of that. Save your retorts for the camera where it has more impact. I think he would do himself well and score alot of points if he would look into the camera with a straight up face. Tell the folks that he fights like he does because the country has been good to him and alot of people. He should say he loves the country very much. He will continue to fight hard for the country and the folks....even if it is not always popular at the moment.

I think he has a good record to advertise for the 3.5 or so years he's been in office. If the House...and the Senate leadership to a degree, would have worked with him instead of running a policy of obstruction and trumped up impeachment charges at every turn, I think alot more good things could have taken place for everyone. Or at the least the dialogue and framework could have been set in place to make more positive things happen within the House and Senate.

From: Bobmeister
28-Jun-20

From: blackwolf
28-Jun-20
Good post Ziek. That makes 2 of us and a lot of deaf ears. I think Nov. will change things, Trump has been alienating a lot of people lately.

From: blackwolf
28-Jun-20
Ziek, Great post! I am sure there are others that agree but this site isn't very hospitable to anything left of far right wing. Nov. will head us back to sanity, TRump has been losing support big time the last few months.

From: DanaC
29-Jun-20
"I think he has a good record to advertise..."

Tax break for the richest people who need it least? Kissing up to third-rate dictators who should properly be addressed by low-level ambassadors and not the President? Building a 'wall' that stops NO immigrants? Naming religious extremists to the high court system? Encouraging neo-nazis to crawl out from under their rock? Sending his son-in-law to fix the Middle East? 100,000 dead from Covid-19? (And still climbing.) And shall we discuss his 'transparency'? Still waiting to see those tax returns. If this is your idea of a 'quality' presidency you have low standards!

From: Mike in CT
29-Jun-20
Tax break for the richest people who need it least?

If the tax breaks had only been for that demographic you’d have a valid point and one I’d wholeheartedly agree with. When tax breaks are given across the board to all who pay federal income tax that’s not the case and to the point, it’s called “fairness”. Lest you be unfamiliar with the term it’s being equitable in your actions in principle. Did the rich get more in terms of actual dollars? Of course, but that’s a function of income and not bias; moreover, one needs to consider the tax revenues that demographic produces; your conditionality (“need it least”) does not reflect any consideration of what they pay and only conveys resentment over what they earn and attempts to justify it, not by disparity of relief but simply on an arbitrary standard of “need.” Food for thought; do we “need” the 2nd Amendment to live? The 1st? No, but let me know when you decide enumerated rights should be judged by the same metric.

Kissing up to third-rate dictators who should properly be addressed by low-level ambassadors and not the President?

Provide specifics and I’ll be happy to consider the merits of your case; FYI, flinging accusations without supporting examples is not how one posits a point deserving of consideration.

Building a 'wall' that stops NO immigrants?

Again, accusations without proof are as useful as a sailboat without a sail; do you have confirmed proof that not a single illegal immigrant has been stopped? (That was a rhetorical question, the answer is plainly visible to even Stevie Wonder.) Additionally, you may want to change your query to reflect the fact that it is illegal immigrants we want to prevent from entering the country; legal immigrants continue to be welcome.

Naming religious extremists to the high court system?

You do like indulging in hyperbole, don’t you? First, define “religious extremist”; is it someone who believes in the sanctity of life and thinks the unborn deserve protection? How many jihadists have been appointed to the bench? How many who advocating the stoning of adulterers? How many who believe in the inferiority of women?

Encouraging neo-nazis to crawl out from under their rock?

Again, a charge absent supporting evidence (hint: opinion while your right is does not constitute corroboration.) You may want to read the full context of his remarks post-Charlottesville and not the selectively edited cliff-notes version disseminated by the MSM. Contrast those remarks with those of his predecessor in the aftermaths of Henry Louis Gates, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for example.

Sending his son-in-law to fix the Middle East?

Perhaps someone who is Jewish might have a frame of reference for the issues there? When we exclude qualified people on the basis of relations we’re not being proper, we’re allowing inherent bias to cloud our judgement.

100,000 dead from Covid-19? (And still climbing.)

Many of your points appear to arise not from factual evidence but personal animus; this one appears to arise from a bad juxtaposition of intellectual laziness and factual ignorance. If I were into public humiliation I’d post the actual timeline of events, actions and contrast some realities that have been significantly improved on. I’ll abstain for now in the faint hope you might actually decide to research the topic yourself and address your ignorance on the subject. Who know, miracles do happen…..ooops, I may now be a “religious extremist” as I’ve clearly indicated a belief in miracles……oh well……

And shall we discuss his 'transparency'? Still waiting to see those tax returns.

Sure, but let's first address your usage of a conjunction to begin a sentence.....just kidding, the grammar police have been de-funded....

Thank-you for offering an unquestionably valid point after subjecting us to an Op-Ed post that anyone could see in a microsecond at DK, DU or some other far-left blog. For a second I wondered if you were by nature unimaginative or if you really had a predilection for regurgitation.

If you promise to do something it is incumbent upon you to follow through; if he didn’t want to release his tax records, that’s his right (there is no legal requirement to do so) he should have simply said so.

If this is your idea of a 'quality' presidency you have low standards!

If you’d posted actual, corroborated facts we could consider that statement; absent any I see no reason to. Further, I suspect you are conflating the character of the man with the results the man has achieved. Many who have argued that his presidency has been a success have done so on the sole basis of achievements; by this metric (as other Presidencies have been measured) the facts support the quality of the term to date.

If you feel you have a case, by all means make it and then we can have a worthwhile discussion. If you want to post a screed to vent your spleen that’s your right and I support that; I will pay it no mind however as, quite frankly, I’ve got far better things to do.

From: DanaC
29-Jun-20
"I will pay it no mind..."

LMAO! It took you 2000 words to get there ;-)

From: Fuzzy
29-Jun-20
DanaC it was the future moronic replies he was gonna pay no mind to ;)

29-Jun-20
Mike, not trying to be a pecker but you basically said nothing And provided no facts or proof to counter his accusations in all of your 2000 words.

From: jjs
29-Jun-20
It is Trump or a pro-DNC Marxist acceptance, which one do you want to live under? Vote for the Constitution and Bill of Rights and that is all that matters, without that all is gone as far as individual liberties, enough said.

29-Jun-20
The growing inequality in our country ought to be a concern for all of us based on world history. No matter how deserved that income/wealth, at some point the disparity will most likely lead to violent upheaval if history is an indicator of what to expect.

We might be witnessing that now and just not totally recognize it. I have long believed it is not white privilege that people are waging war against, but economic privilege. Recent events like the Floyd homicide are just the trigger.

From: Ziek
29-Jun-20
There's too much to type, and there is no profit in it on this site. But...

Let's start with the economy, even before the pandemic. It's really easy to live high on the hog if you have NO fiscal responsibility, and you gut all the agencies that have been established with good reason, to safeguard our safety and the environment. While most of us benefitted from a robust economy, his policies increased the divide between the wealthiest and the rest of us. It's interesting that I'm more concerned about this than most of you. I'm getting up there in years and don't have any kids that will have to pay the bill for his largess. The Republican Party was the Party of fiscal responsible that I supported.

He has the worst environmental record of any modern President. That's also interesting that a bunch of hunters don't seem to give a rat's ass about the environment when that is the MOST critical aspect of us being able to hunt, or even to be able to live on this planet.

He accepts, tacitly approves of, or outright supports (as long as they support him) groups that promote bigotry, and racism. They have their First Amendment rights, but only deserve outright condemnation from responsible people in return.

I could go on, but I have better things to do. I will finish with a few specifics by answering the following quote from a previous post.

"How many who believe in the inferiority of women?"

Everybody that doesn't think a woman has autonomy over their own body. It's amazing to me that this is even an issue, since other laws have already been established to address identical conflicts. First, only a real person has rights and privileges. But for the sake of argument, let's say a fetus has rights and privileges. So if I need a kidney, and you have one that will save my life, I can demand that you give me one? Does my right to life trump your right to sovereignty over your own body. I can't even force you to do something as minor as give me a blood transfusion. But you think that a woman should be subservient to a fetus? I suspect that point of view is spawned in religious beliefs. Which brings me to my last point.

Religion should NOT be used as a governing body in a free society. I don't care if it's a Caliphate, or based on Christianity.

From: Ziek
29-Jun-20
I almost forgot. I assume all of you that think that all social programs are bad, sent your stimulus checks back?

From: Trax
29-Jun-20
Yep, confused and ignorant but more ignorant than confused he is. Thanks for letting us know that Ziek. Again, on every attempt (and they were few) you prove it to us. I actually think you're really not that ignorant and confused, you are a liberal. But let me give you just one example. Being against butchering babies is considered a conservative view point. Something you are obviously in favor of. A liberal view point. You compare a kidney to a baby in mother's womb. Does that kidney have human features like a head and hands and feet? Does that kidney have a heart beat and brain waves like the baby and what point does the baby have such? Will the kidney continue to develop and become an adult? You really fail your cause at every level Ziek, you and crazy uncle Joe are perfect for each other!

From: rodb
29-Jun-20
Russian bounty, the lies keep coming from bunker boy

From: Ziek
29-Jun-20
Trax, I beg to differ. You are the one who can't differentiate the salient points of my argument. In my example I ALREADY am a fully formed person. Tell me why my life is not more important than your kidney. After all, you have an extra one. But hey, if I ever need a transplant I'll send the Sherrif over to collect what I need. Your will be damned.

But maybe that fetus will come to term and be born a healthy boy...that later decides it wants to be a girl. Then what? ;-)

But maybe you a correct that I'm no longer a good fit as a Republican. The Republican Party has changed drastically in many important ways since Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. It has become an arm of big business and the church, with strong racist leanings. That's why I re-registered as an Independent. I can then at least choose which primary to vote in (although that didn't matter the last time around). Because that is the main issue here. Trump should have NEVER gotten as far as he did to begin with.

From: Glunt@work
29-Jun-20
Lincoln and Roosevelt's stances on race are far from acceptable in any party today. It was a different time and although wrong, in the context of their era they weren't extreme.

From: DanaC
29-Jun-20
"The Republican Party has changed drastically in many important ways since Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. " It's _sunk_ a long ways since the days of Reagan (to say nothing of Eisenhower.)

From: Mike in CT
29-Jun-20
TIMH,

I didn't consider your post as being "a pecker" but would beg to differ on providing no facts; I alluded to the reality that the tax breaks were applied to all who paid income tax; that is a fact and contradicts Dana's "tax breaks for the rich" nonsense.

Each succeeding point was nothing other than opinion masquerading as fact; it is incumbent upon the poster to prove there is more than mere opinion and not me to provide him the evidence to make his case. I also alluded to at least a couple of options to research and arrive at facts that would shred much of his supposition.

I can only speak for myself but as a rule I don't do other people's homework for them; as I said to him, if you have a case, make it.

Ziek,

You cast a false dichotomy that if one is pro-life they are anti-woman; frankly, I'd expect that argument from a liberal, not you. Being pro-life does not equate to a unilateral declaration that a woman does not have autonomy over her body but rather that she does not have autonomy over the life of her unborn child, with the exception being a compelling medical reason, cases of rape or incest. If you research the statistics on abortion (and you can even find these at Planned Parenthood) you'll find that about 90% of abortions are performed as a matter of convenience, not the conditions referenced.

Now if you can provide examples of rulings that are contrary to the Constitution based solely on religious views you might have an argument worth making.

The rest of your attempts at a reasoned argument fall woefully flat; the kidney analogy is poor at best and with all candor, it's asinine.

Sorry but I won't swallow your straw-man about "a woman being subservient to her fetus"; either form a rational counter or admit you have nothing other than your personal belief. You are of course entitled to the latter but the former is a poor substitute for a factual, well-reasoned counter.

Lastly, I don't presume to impose my religious beliefs on anyone; not toeing the line on a poorly formed, morally bankrupt position isn't forcing anything on anyone other than pointing to a blatant hypocrisy in plain English.

From: Trax
29-Jun-20
The Republican Party had become sickeningly liberal. The Democrat Socialist Party is now a hybrid version of a mix of Marxism and Fascism, radically leftist. President Trump has brought the Party back to its conservative roots without the allegiance to old school establishment Party power. THAT is the difference. Thank you President Trump! Your Attempted argument Ziek in favor of butchering babies alive does your cause no good. A civilized people do not butcher babies. Using abortion as birth control has done just that.

From: Will tell
29-Jun-20
All Democrats are not Liberal and all Republicans are not gun toting racist. That's all political propaganda . If you want to shake up both political parties register Independent, they're starting to decide close elections.

From: Stix
29-Jun-20
My only support for Trump is his Supreme Court and other federal judges appointments. This country and constitution is best served by courts that interpret the constitution, not legislate from the bench.

There's some of Some of Trump's policies/actions I disagree with. Like using Secret Service police to tear gas peaceful protestors so he could do a bible photo op. He needs to read the bible, not use it as a prop.

But right now, Trump is the only choice we have, unless a 3rd party libertarian or constitution party candidate can somehow manage to get votes.

From: TD
29-Jun-20
Sooo.... when he comes out of the basement and the debates (LOL! OMG, the debates... heheheheh....) are engaged, campaign begun and all the clips showing Biden bragging about holding up billions in aid to fire a Ukrainian prosecutor so his son who was getting millions for nothing and his chicks for free from them could continue the grift and move on to China, where the REAL money was..... you mean that foreign policy? Does his love of women's rights (and little girls) extend to how their hair smells?

Is he gonna get your pity vote? Can't imagine he'll get many creeped out votes. Or your "I hate America almost as much as I do Trump" vote? Biden is the poster child of the entrenched Swamp. Never held an honest job in his life. And other than his gift for hanging out with the right people and sniffin' hair, has accomplished NOTHING in his last 100 years or so.... Nothing. Crime reform? Nope, that was Trump. Trade reform? Nope,Trump again. Work on getting us untangled from the middle east? (Biden paid Iran BILLIONS in cash on pallets in the dark of night, only to see that money prop up and fund yet more terrorism..... who was that again, been so long I kinda forgot? Oh yeah, ISIS, Obama/Biden's JV team....) Nope, sorry, Trump again. Illegal Immigration? Economy? HAHAHAHAHA.... oh my, heheheh.... you guys are too much.....

Trump on the environment? You mean slapping down the Green New Deal the democrats want? Good for him. In fact you want to talk Green New Deal and what's in it and it's economic effects.... by all means. Lets talk. THAT is the democrats.

And let us not forget, while the country shut down and stimulus was being hammered out to try and help the working folks..... Pelosi and the dems were trying to kill it by tacking on airline emission standards, voter ID laws and alternative energy mandates and other crap while folks were faced with losing all they had. THAT is the face of the democratic party. Botox and all. Good grief, you folks have no shame at all..... none. Russia anyone? Any other fake news you want to make up? More Americans you want to use the FBI or the IRS to dig up any dirt on? Biden's your guy then.... it's what he does. Unmask anybody? Logan Act? Might have to look up that one, it's from 1799 and has NEVER been used, on anyone.... up until now on General Flynn.... Biden's idea. 100%

Creepy Uncle Joe..... he's gonna have to come out of the basement at some point and try to, well.... finish a coherent sentence or something. This isn't some blank slate you can make appear how you want.... he has a LONG track record. And a poor one. Everything he says he wants to do..... why didn't he do it before when he held office? Too busy literally making his family millionaires?

Trump has his personality disorders.... mostly doesn't put up with anyone's crap from all I can see. That seem to upset some, mostly those who's crap it is being asked to put up with.... huh, go figure.... But he's here for America and Americans. Not to lie, cheat and steal and screw them over for their Globalist causes.

Burn the flag, kneel on it, wizz on it, topple monuments, burn down peoples personal property and destroy small business (seems they didn't set fire to many multi-national corporations.....) that is the face of the democrats right now. That is what they are hanging their hat on. Support by omission if nothing else. Don't have the spine to come out against the violence, the mob rule. (or as they like to put it, Summer of Love....) An oath to protect and keep their cities safe.... out the window. Silence in the face of lawlessness is deafening.

Pretty soon.... this won't be about Trump at all. Biden, he might pull in some pity votes..... but just wait till you guys see your boy, the guy YOU want to run the country, lest you forget what this is all about... in all his glory.... I can hardly wait.... this is gonna be fun....

From: Ziek
29-Jun-20
Well, this is still a Democratic Republic, where we vote for a President every four years. But Trump is already setting the stage for renouncing the election results if it doesn't go his way. You're afraid of losing some of your rights or freedoms from the Democrats? The real threat is Trump and his imaginary conspiracies to draw your attention away from real threats.

From: Trax
29-Jun-20
I could be wrong but I really don't think you're as delusional and ignorant as you sound, Ziek. I think you're a liberal, and always have been a liberal. Then again their basis is delusion and ignorance. You have yet to make one reference or attempted point that has any merit. Now go back to big Rach Maddow or Don flaming Lemon or wherever else you go for your misinformation, they have more for you.

29-Jun-20
trump has my vote

From: BowSniper
29-Jun-20
I remember 2016 when Hillary lost it was SHE (and the Dems) that didn't accept the election results. How ironic. Demanded to recount several states, and in EVERY recount Trump was determined to have won by an even wider margin.

Why do you suppose that is?? Shall we compare convictions for recent election fraud - number of Dems vs Republicans???

From: Fuzzy
29-Jun-20
BowSniper, Hillary was promised the election, behind the scenes, on both sides of the aisle. She was so unpalatable that in order to ensure she won, the RINOs nominated the most ridiculous candidate they could think of. It backfired, Trump won, Hillary melted down and honestly both sides are still in shock. That's my take. In spite of himself and to my immense surprise DT has done a decent job (at least not disastrous). He's been following the wishes of his major constituency, the conservative working class, and has limited his habitual cronyism with the wealthy. He wasn't my first choice and I wish we had someone more articulate and grounded, but he again beats the alternative. "Trump 2020 "

From: TRnCO
29-Jun-20
Well said, TD, very well said.

How anyone can vote Dem. right now, after watching all the destruction going on in all the big Dem held cities, is beyond me. Why would you support those people that support the destruction of this country? The Dems. are allowing the MOB to rule. Is that what anyone really wants?

From: DanaC
29-Jun-20
Has anyone else noticed posts disappearing from this thread?

From: HDE
29-Jun-20
"You're afraid of losing some of your rights or freedoms from the Democrats?"

I will remember you said that when it happens...

From: Trax
29-Jun-20
Iran is a terrorist state and has absolutely zero backing or credence. You do know that this is nothing but propaganda, right? No. I would bet not. Our own DOJ would have a much better chance in arresting and convicting Obama for killing American citizen jihadists without due process, including a minor teen. Which is one tick above zero chance. Liberals really grasping at air with desperation now, it will get worse for them the closer we get to election day!

From: DanaC
29-Jun-20
" Hillary was promised the election, behind the scenes, on both sides of the aisle."

Yeah, because Mitch McConnell would have happily signed on to *that*. LOL!!!

From: grizz
29-Jun-20
Interpol told Iran; absolutely not! Then notified the White House that the President was in no danger from Interpol. Guess you forgot the rest of the story. Iran would probably welcome you if you’d just go. I’ll give to your “go fund me “ if you promise to go.

From: Fuzzy
30-Jun-20
DanaC no signatures were necessary. I'm convinced the fix was on though.

From: Rock
30-Jun-20
Trump Has done everything he promised to do so far. How far could we have gone if the left had tried to work with him and not try to destroy him? Look what he has done even though the Dem's try to stop him at every turn, Unemployment lowest in history, Record employment for all Americans, Economy best ever (guess his magic wand really does work).

Has any Dem or any other politician ever done what he had promised to do?

Is he perfect or without flaws, NO. But who among us is?

All this Racial unrest and protesting is not his doing, the haters and Dem's are behind all of it. Why is the media not looking into the hot spots of all this (Dem run Cities and States). Most of it was started by Obummer, for sure that is where all the killing and shooting of police officers started.

Trump has my vote same as 2016.

From: DanaC
30-Jun-20
"DanaC no signatures were necessary. I'm convinced the fix was on though. "

How delightfully unprovable. ;-)

From: Bentstick81
30-Jun-20
"You're afraid of losing some of your rights or freedoms from the democrats?" This is probably the dumbest comment that I've read in a long time. If you think that America's own TERRORISTS, (THE DEMOCRATS), won't take any of your rights or freedom, you are nuts. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: Mike in CT
30-Jun-20
"How delightfully unprovable."

Yes, like most of your opening screed; I gave you an opportunity to do so hoping you'd rise to the challenge but expecting you to avoid having to provide proof.

You met my expectations; not sure I'd call it delightful but definitely predictable.

From: DanaC
30-Jun-20
Wow, now the Democrats are 'terrorists' !? And I'm accused of hyperbole? LMAO!

From: JL
30-Jun-20
IMO....the fix was in for Hil on the Dem side in 2016. Four supporting points that we know....first is Crazy Bernie was squeezed out. Second, recall Donna Brazille was caught feeding Hil some of the debate questions before the debate. Third was the FBI investigation that protected Hil from the crimes she committed surrounding her destroying her server that was subpoenaed. Fourth was the secret Lynch and Willie Clinton meeting on the tarmac. I suspect there might be other things we could point to showing the fix was in on the Dem side in 2016. The only folks on the Repub side who may have attempted to do something nefarious would be the never-Trumpers. I don't recall any news reports about them.

From: Shaft2Long
30-Jun-20
Blackwolf says “Nov. will head us back to sanity.”

So what’s going on in Seattle sanity?

Is defunding police sanity?

How bout all the black on black violence that happens daily that no Democrat has done anything about and BLM refuses to even acknowledge?

Rolling back all the tax breaks and upping corporate taxes so high insuring no investment in American business is sane?

Eliminating the oil and gas industry and all the jobs that go with it in favor of a green new deal is sane?

What part of raw sewage and needles flowing in gutters sounds like sane policy?

30-Jun-20
Anyone too blinded by their own ousts to see the conspiracies set forth by the democrat party is too senseless to even bother addressing.

From: Fuzzy
30-Jun-20
I'm glad you're "delighted". As to "provable", it doesn't matter since those who could take action are the very ones the proof would be against. The Foxes aren't guarding the henhouse anymore, they've stolen the henhouse hens and all.

From: Annony Mouse
30-Jun-20

Annony Mouse's Link
Amazing thread...few deletions by the censors. Political discussion back and forth...and yet the thread remains! Shades of the CF!

All this and not one person has (considering the riots, looting, property destruction, etc. of the past several weeks) addressed the elephant donkey in the room.

Taking lead from ANTIFA/BLM in destroying monuments, the Pelosi Pogrom to remove paintings and statuary from the halls of government and support for erasing our history, when will the Democrat Party become truly "woke" and change their name considering the party's historic record of racism? Since they seem to accept the premise that (for example) the deeds of Christopher Columbus 400 years ago merits erasure from our history, should not they be constant and do a Dixie Chicks and tear down their own party...perhaps to rebrand itself as the Social Communist Venezuela Party?

Carp all you want about Trump, but the true source of racism seen in this country is embedded in the Democrat Party. Their record has been to say words, but act to keep the blacks on the voter plantation.

From link:

The resolution states Connecticut Republicans “deem it necessary that the Democratic Party change its name due to the Party’s long tragic legacy denying Americans basic human rights,” including:

* Democrats blocked the first attempt to ratify the 13th Amendment in 1863

*Democrats unanimously voted against the 14th Amendment giving former slaves citizenship

* Democrats unanimously voted against the 15th Amendment giving former slaves the right to vote

* Democrats instituted Jim Crow laws across Democrat led states, preventing African Americans the right to vote.

*Democrats held the longest filibuster in U.S Senate history to block the civil rights act 1957

“Democratic Parties around the country have been stripping buildings, monuments, and pictures from government halls, yet the atrocities rest with the Democratic Party as a whole,” Romano said. “To kill the serpent you need to strike at the head.”

30-Jun-20
Unfortunately most Americans ( and many hunters) are largely uneducated, history escapes their minds. It is very obvious on this thread.

Good post Annony mouse.

From: rodb
01-Jul-20
For bunker boy to call the Russian Bounty "fake news" is a slap in the face to every veteran past and present including myself! It's just like bunker boy to stick his head in the sand and pretend nothing has happened. He is a disgrace to America and so are you for supporting him. Maybe you guys should start thinking about moving to Russia?

From: DanaC
01-Jul-20
And then his minions insist he didn't know about it while the people who brief him claim he was told in February or March. (Of course they're all party of the deep state conspiracy yadda yadda...)

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
Once again, Paul shows us what an idiot he is with his display of made up facts presented as reality. Then he being the America hating Marxist he is tries to deflect by actually questioning some of us as being what he really is. What a sad little she he is. That is true of course Mouse and Robert Bird was a high ranking clansman in more recent history. But today the mob and media give that old news a pass whether they know it or not. What we need to focus on is how racist the Democrat Socialist Party is TODAY, and how they truly hate America. Not just the mob and blind dumb sheep that make the mob up, but their leadership at the head of their terrorist and racist groups. That would include many members of Congress. That's the talk we need to have.

From: Ambush
01-Jul-20
^^^^. Or just wait here, rotb and friends are slowly turning our countries into Russia or better yet China.

From: 1boonr
01-Jul-20
DanaC - I think his point was that the Antifa punks are domestic terrorists and since they all vote democrat and are supported by democrats like you, he just labeled all democrats as terrorists. Please try to keep up

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
"All Democrats are not Liberal and all Republicans are not gun toting racist. That's all political propaganda . If you want to shake up both political parties register Independent, they're starting to decide close elections."

That all sounds good on paper, and it might make you feel good, but the fact is we have a two party system. One party IS going to be in control of the WH, one party IS going to be in control of the house, and one party IS going to be in control of the senate...as well as every committee within them.

If you vote for a Democrat, you are voting for their leadership...whether you think you are or not. Regardless of what an individual candidate says he or she will do (R or D), they will fall in line with the leadership or they won't get re-elected. It's all about numbers and control. The Democrats have proven more successful at this but the Republicans attempt to do the same.

When someone says "I vote for the individual, not the party" they simply don't know how the system operates.

I vote for an individual in the primaries and I vote for a party in the general election.

Never, will I vote for a Democrat...ever. No matter what they say, or how poor the Republican candidate might be, I will never contribute to the power of the leftist Democrat leadership.

KPC

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
Very well said KC. I am a truly Independent conservative. I don't identify as a Republican because the Party itself has gone far to the left over the years (Reagan and now Trump putting a pause to that) and too many elected members of the Party are liberals disguised as conservatives. That being said the Democrat Socialist Party is hybrid Marxist trash. Far to the left of the Republicans. Consequently as I vote as conservative as possible Republicans always get my vote as the most conservative candidate normally but always the most conservative Party.

From: JL
01-Jul-20
Kevin...I'd never say never with a broad brush. I would never vote for any Congressional Dems. Congress has way too much power and no term limits....a very bad combination for the country. As we see....some of these Congress folks create thiefdoms for themselves and get too powerful thru longevity. They have alot of control over people in other states who can't vote against them.

A moderate, sometimes right-leaning Dem state governor like Joe Manchin might be a better alternative than some Independent or a Socialist.

From: BowSniper
01-Jul-20
Speaking of history... of course you know who destroys statues as they erase/rewrite history and impose a new government agenda??? ISIS.

This was widely publicised during the formation of their caliphate in Syria. Why do you think Al'Queda took down the twin towers? It was the skyline of America known around the world... erased.

Remember the history, such as Obama and Bill Ayres (weatherman terrorist) who have shared interests in Chicago. Remember Bill Clinton granting clemency to members of the FALN terrorist group.

The Democrats aren't necessarily terrorists... but they run in the same circles and follow the same ideology and pursue similar methods to force their goals on everyone else. Wait... maybe they are?? :-)

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
"A moderate, sometimes right-leaning Dem state governor like Joe Manchin might be a better alternative than some Independent or a Socialist."

Again, that sounds good on paper but in reality, in spite of all of Manchin's talk, he has sided with the leadership time after time after time.

If you vote for a Democrat, no matter how much they convince you that they are different, you are also voting for committee chairs like Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, Maxine Waters, and their ilk, and their ability to control all debate.

The only way they lose power is to elect Republicans in sufficient enough numbers. For the most part, a "decent" Democrat is still subservient to the leadership...as is a crappy Republican.

KPC

From: Ramhunter
01-Jul-20
Back on June 28th, Ziek posted:

The OP was do you support Trump, not are you a Republican or Democrat. I WAS a registered Republican my entire voting life - until a couple of weeks ago when I changed to Independent. I voted for the Republican candidate in every national election until Trump. The Republican Party I knew is GONE. Every responsible, ethical, moral, TRUE Republican has either left in frustration, been forced out, or fired if not an elected position. The only ones left are ass-kissers. Trump was, and is, unqualified, unsuitable, and incompetent. His ONLY qualification was, he ran AS a Republican. That simply is not enough for me. His only concern has always been and always will be for HIMSELF. He spent his entire life promoting Trump; financially and to feed his ego. He is using the Presidency to the same end.

Let's review his party affiliation over the years.

Until he was 41 years old in 1987 - Democrat.

1987 - 1999 - Republican.

1999 - 2001 - Reform.

2001 - 2009 - Democrat.

2009 - 2011 - Republican.

2011 - 2012 Independent.

2012 - present Republican.

Does that look like someone with strong convictions or someone looking for the best deal?

Other history: Proud draft dodger. Every time I see one of you thanking a vet for their service and yet supporting Trump, it rings pretty hollow to me.

Bragged about grabbing women by...(I'm sure you've heard it).

Has said many times about others "if you're hiding something you must be guilty of something". I'll take him at his word. Let's see HIS tax returns! As well as other documents he keeps trying to suppress.

His playboy lifestyle has cost the taxpayers more than any other modern-day President with much of that money going to HIS properties.

I fully understand not wanting to support or vote for a Democrat, but that's not the same as supporting an absolute pig of a man that has never done anything for anyone but himself. His motives are and always will be for his own self interest. He's using "Republicans", or maybe just anti-Democrats, to enrich himself, and amazingly, with some success. I hope, and it appears that maybe, the country is waking up.

I also know that all of this will fall on deaf ears on this site. It's obvious you're all committed.

Mike, I'm in full agreement with you. I changed from lifelong Republican to Independent in January because I cannot support what the Republican party has become, and therefore will not affiliate with that party or any other. Trump gets all the blame because he is a pig; even his defenders can agree on that - why so many look past that point is beyond me.

The Republican party lost me when every elected Republican Senator and Representative lost their own voice. There is no independent thinking. The very best you get from any of them is to stand in silence. And frankly that is the fundamental problem with all politics in Washington, they are there, not to serve the people but to serve themselves. Every last one of them! They have to maintain there status because it pays the bills. Results are a thing of the past. They suck out the power tit so they keep their slice of the pie. It is absolutely disgusting!

The Democrats have done this for years, I was hoping the Republicans had character and conviction, but they don't either.

New Rules - force this horrible two party system to work together or do nothing. If we have a Democrat in the White House, then I want a Republican Senate. I never want to see one party rule - regardless of the party - it is way too dangerous because none of them can be trusted.

It is such a shame - 17 Republican candidates ran for the nomination in 2016, and Trump comes out on top - if that doesn't tell you something about the piss poor elected officials from across this country I don't know what does.

As Glunt said, I hope someday I have the opportunity to vote for a candidate with character, morals, vision, and integrity - but that may be a pipe dream until we put term limits on every elected position. Get them in try them out and get them out for the next one.

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
"The worse problem I see is people like you who _demand_ orthodoxy - "if you ain't a conservative *like me* you must be a liberal democrat antifa pinko terrorist"."

It doesn't really matter what you are. Like it or not, If you elect a Democrat, you are in fact voting for the democrat leadership...which in most cases are indeed beholden to the "antifa pinko terrorist" wing of their party.

KPC

From: DanaC
01-Jul-20
KPC - I'd prefer 'Democrat leadership' to the clown show we have today. Would it be my first choice? No, but Trump is so obviously the greater of evils that he has to go.

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
It doesn't really matter what you are. Like it or not, If you elect a Republican, you are in fact voting for the Republican leadership...which in most cases are indeed beholden to the "right wing nationalists and white supremacy pinko terrorist" wing of their party.

Turn about is fair play.

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
So in their blindness some that would "like" to vote Republican so they say would rather support the Democrat Socialist Party. The difference between truly conservative leadership we have seen for President Trump and what ANY Democrat would give you is night and day. The Democrat prez would put Marxist and ultra liberal judges and Justices on the bench just to begin with. We would go back to nonsensical regulations and limitations and heavy taxation on business, which would strangle this country. We would see open borders with free money welfare programs galore for illegals, while the working class would get the boots put to them and be left with the bill. That is just a beginning of the differences. So you go ahead and support the leftists and America hating Marxists Dana baby, the country doesn't need you and would be better off without your kind. President Trump has flaws all right, every single president has had. Unlike most presidents President Trump has been a breath of fresh air in terms of accomplishment on the issues for we the people and the United States of America. Thank God for President Trump and we desperately need 4 more years. With 8 more to follow by another conservative leader.

From: DanaC
01-Jul-20
"With 8 more to follow by another conservative leader. "

Donald Trump is about as 'conservative' as Jimmy Carter. Oh, wait, Carter served honorably in the armed forces. As for what passes as 'conservatism' these days...

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
Carter was a liberal idiot, he obviously would be a good match up for you. The American Conservative Union has rated President Trump FAR more conservative than Reagan. You see, it's the issues that matter. From border security to regulation to abortion to military support to judges and Justices etc etc. Compared to liberal Republicans like George H or Shrub W President Trump practically makes them look Marxist. That's because the Bush clan was beholden to a liberal Republican Party, President Trump is not. Thank you President Trump!

From: DanaC
01-Jul-20

DanaC's embedded Photo
DanaC's embedded Photo
Military support? LMAO

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
"No, but Trump is so obviously the greater of evils that he has to go."

"Donald Trump is about as 'conservative' as Jimmy Carter. Oh, wait, Carter served honorably in the armed forces. As for what passes as 'conservatism' these days..."

OK, honest question...

So whether you like him or not, which one of the Democrat candidates (including the presumptive nominee) do you think would have governed MORE "conservatively" than him?

KPC

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
Or which Republican that ran against him in 2016, or has held the office in the modern era?

Nice fiction and propaganda Dana the lefty plant, who gave it to you? Don flaming Lemon or big Rach Maddow?

From: DanaC
01-Jul-20
KPC, I obviously don't expect a Democrat to govern 'conservatively'. I don't expect Biden to cut government spending or nominate anti-abortion judges.

I get an actual kick out of Wayne Lapierre claiming that Biden will destroy the 2nd Amendment while everyone else is claiming that 'Sleepy Joe' won't get anything done at all. Which is it? ('Both' is not a valid answer, sorry.)

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
Biden has to have a bedtime story read to him every night, HE won't get anything done. The hybrid Marxist cabal and radical liberal power players will do the bidding for their pawn if Biden were elected. Thank God he won't be! Honestly, this country desperately needs 4 more years of conservative leadership. We now know our resident leftist plant is against true conservatism and organizations like the NRA. Now tell us about which racist hate groups and domestic terrorist organizations you support...

From: splitlimb13
01-Jul-20

splitlimb13's embedded Photo
splitlimb13's embedded Photo

From: DanaC
01-Jul-20
Sonny, I've been an NRA member since you were in diapers. I've wriutten and published more pro-2A articles than most here combined. And you still think *labeling* me impresses me? lmao!

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
You just attacked the NRA like any liberal would. You also have no idea of what you speak of. That much is very obvious when you have an institution like the ACU rating President Trump the most conservative president in the modern era and far more than Reagan and yet you keep whining out lies about his record. ( It's obvious but they make it official) You're either a leftist plant or terribly confused and ignorant. Which is it?

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
"KPC, I obviously don't expect a Democrat to govern 'conservatively'. I don't expect Biden to cut government spending or nominate anti-abortion judges."

So with Biden being the only viable option, unless you actually want a liberal in the WH, why would you say Trump "has to go?"

You seem pretty passionate about the 2A. Do you think Biden would be better for the 2A than Trump?

I'm not saying that Trump has been the perfect conservative President, he hasn't.

Having said that, I'd like you to name one thing that is important to conservatives, just one...where Biden would govern better than Trump?

KPC

From: DanaC
01-Jul-20
"Having said that, I'd like you to name one thing that is important to conservatives, just one...where Biden would govern better than Trump? " I'll give you two - Foreign relations. Environmental protection.

From: BowSniper
01-Jul-20
Soooo funny to hear the Faux outrage from the leftist libs, especially when it comes to Russia. When the best they can roll out as their 'military' guy is Jimmy Carter. Ha!!!!! When did Clinton serve? Or Obama?? LOL

All this phony Russian outrage over an unverified bounty story. What about when WE were supplying stinger missiles for the Afghans to shoot down Russian helicopters and planes. Do you think we played a part in any Russian deaths? That is the way the game is played on the world stage. Put on your camo big boy pants. Covert ops, proxy wars, etc.

Do you have any examples of the Obama/Biden administration standing tall against Russian aggression? How about when Obama gave away out US Missile shield over Europe to Putin for nothing in return? Or when the Dems let Russia gain an eternal foothold and military base in Syria? Ever hear of place called Crimea that the Ukranians used to think belonged to them??

Talking about bounties on US Soldiers??!!? How about the Iranian's making IED bombs for the Iraqi rebels to blow up American soldiers. All before Obama sent them a plane load of cash and a promise they could have a nuclear warhead in 10 years. Who was it that finally took out the Iranian terror general who commanded the IED attacks against Americans?? LOL

Such absolute garbage being sold by the leftist libs when they want to pretend to have military leadership and backbone. Bah!!!

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
"Foreign relations. Environmental protection."I

Both pretty tough to quantify.

In terms of foreign relations, do you mean having other countries "like" us...at the expense of the American people?

In terms of environmental protection, do you mean caving to environmentalists at the expense of the economy?

Can you give specific examples?

KPC

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
President Trump has removed nonsensical regulations on business and in terms of enviro issues. He has led like a true conservative. There still remains many many enviro protections that do make sense. Obama had a terrible record on the environment because so many of his regulations made no sense and/or accomplished nothing positive. But, some people are filled with what crap they're fed. President Trump has accomplished great things in terms of foreign policy at every level. Nobody would agree 100% with ANY president on all issues but overall again, President Trump has placed this country first. Compare that to what a globalist like Obama did. Big wins for President Trump in terms of foreign policy, and in terms of common sense the environment too.

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
"President Trump has removed nonsensical regulations on business and in terms of enviro issues."

This is absolutely laughable. You can't call putting Scott Pruitt with his record as head of the EPA a good idea. That guy was anti-environment and an idiot. Trump has tried to defang or eliminate almost every major foundational environmental law or act (ESA, CWA, CAA, NEPA) passed by REPUBLICANS in the 1970s. All with executive orders. I thought you all hated presidents that try to legislate from the oval office. I thought it was congress that passed laws. Pretty hypocritical.

Trump is the worst president in my lifetime when it comes to environmental and natural resource protection. He actually said that wind turbines cause cancer. What a complete buffoon.

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
The key phrase used by KSleftist, "environmental and natural resources protection". Liberals think every single law and order that suffocates business nonsensically or not in the name of enviro is a good one. Many laws and orders that were put in place to "protect" resources or the environment were bad ones and/or completely ineffective or unnecessary. Blind dumb sheep need to be fed though. We all want our resources protected to limits that make sense. Much if not most of what liberals want to do make no sense. Conservation is the key, environmentalism in many facets have gone to the extreme whacked out version.

From: Will
01-Jul-20
For a moment, imagine Trump win's re-election. I realize many (ok, 99.95%) of you reading this view that as a given. What are key things you hope to see him accomplish?

Some of you "know" me from the old CF or other political/cultural threads, you know I view myself as a centrist, and I know most of you view me as so far left that Bernie is to my right ha ha ha! I note that because adding any views I have to this discussion of the current president wouldn't be useful to any of us, so I dont see the point of adding any ideas.

But I'm very curious. Really. What do you all believe would be great for Trump to do from 2020-24? What would be the best things he could do. The court's I'm sure are a no brainer. But what do you really want to see happen?

From: TRnCO
01-Jul-20
"He actually said that wind turbines cause cancer"

Oh boo hoo! He said that...LOL

that really hurt the enviro. doesn't it.

Shall we play the game who said what and when, and see how many presidents we can show that have said flat out dumb stuff in the past? Could maybe start with Obammy and his "57 states" comment? Is that what makes or breaks a great president in your eyes? Or one that you will or won't vote for?

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
It’s funny the U.S. economy has become #1 in the world even with all those nonsensical environmental laws. You lose more and more credibility every time you talk. You sound like a paid influencer for the alt-right.

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
The problem is that Trump actually believes it and it wasn’t a gaff. Or worse he knew it was untrue (aka a lie) and said it anyway. It’s scientifically untrue. That’s the difference.

Will- I would like to see Trump push term limits if he wins in 2020. It was part of his campaign platform in 2016. I agree with him on term limits. Also, eliminate ex-senators/representatives and immediately family from being lobbyist. Oh, also reverse “citizens united.”

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
Well Will, you brought up the courts and yes that may well be paramount. That issue affects most all others or at least many and long term. President Trump has served with power establishment enemies in place trying to bring him down with any means necessary. Including illegal and made up means. He has served with members of his own power Party establishment trying to harm him. He has served with the lamestream media trying to harm him. He has served during this ChiComm virus which has hurt this countries economy which was truly rolling in leaps and bounds. With all things considered, pick an issue. No president is correct all of the time, but his leadership on the issues has re-directed this country away from liberalism to the extent we were on social issues and away from globalism and socialism on every other. From border security to his approach with NATO and the UN to his revamping of NAFTA etc etc etc. He has strengthened our military and at the same time is trying to get us out of the endless wars that produce no results from the middle east to the far east. In 4 years not every event can be completed as the eventual goal but the direction is refreshing. He is the first president in the modern era that indeed is working for the better of America instead of better for the power establishment (including the Party) and for the global cabal. Why he is the best choice in the next 4 years is all of the above, starting with the courts. But he is the one that can economically get this country rolling again, he is the one who will continue to secure our borders while removing us as the self appointed policeman of the world and he is the one that has done more for minority citizens of this country than any other president and will continue to do so. Welfare is not the answer, JOBS are the answer. CAREER is the answer. The leftists tell us cops are bad and criminals are good. The working person should support all of those who choose not to work. The moon is just the sun at night. THIS is what you will get from the Democrat Socialist Party. You want economic disaster and pandemonium in the streets? Elect Biden and the liberal cabal. You want economic prosperity and a president working for America and the rule of law? Elect President Trump for another term. THIS from a guy who did not support him in the primary because I wasn't sure he would be this president. He has surpassed all expectations I could have had for any candidate.

From: lamb
01-Jul-20
dana democrat really? walk from Hammond st in Worcester to city hall if you can step over all the needles, garbage . and bums lying on the sidewalk. how many years has the mass. pike been paid for? who's pocket is that going in? or it suppling free abortion to all the illegals in mass. I hear they have places now where you can go sit down and shoot your heroin sounds nice. like to bring my kids up there.???? I had a guy working for me from brazil. he told me we hate your country i'm just here for the money to send home. thank you dems! the Kennedy's the biggest crooks and bootleggers in history. all brought to you by our great demorats! I could probably write a book on the wrongs of the peoples republic of mass. hah I hear they want to tear down abe Lincoln statue in boston now! no wonder brady left!

From: TD
01-Jul-20
ROTFLMAO..... this is too good..... nothing left for these leftists but "Russia, Russia, Russia!"

All this after being made FOOLS with a two and half year and multi million dollar investigation created by Hillary (using a Russian dossier, can't make this stuff up if you tried....) to be applied by a cabal of deep state operatives, several of who not only were fired but should be spending some time in jail for their actions. An investigation created from NOTHING but animus... that literally found nothing. They STILL harp on it..... "But RUSSIA!" SMH... sad

Comes down to two reasons why...

One, a serious lack of self awareness and remorse for being..... "disingenuous" lets say,..... and chronically wrong. Time, after time, after time..... truly, literally, fake news. Justifying it all for 'the cause". Not even a "my bad..." before moving on to the next BS lie.

Two, they have nothing else. Nothing. Nothing productive. Nothing that will help hard working Americans do what they need to get done. Everything they have from top to bottom is destruction. NO plans to fix or improve. Just... nothing. In fact any talks or plans to improve are actually and openly opposed, as it may make Orange Man look good. Screw what that does to Americans. Currently it's just protest, eliminate police, cancel culture, rioting, burning, looting, ANTIFA and CHAZ..... desperate attempts to eliminate history so they can rewrite it. Most clearly with no knowledge of history as much of what they want to destroy is history they would give a stamp of approval to. IF they had a clue as to what it is they were doing. But they don't. Stupid is as stupid does.

And nobody in these dem run cities seems to have the spine or the will to protect their citizens, fix things or make them stop, much less address the real issues and problems. Go talk to black communities in Chitcago that will be around or about the neighborhoods where an estimated 100 or so will be shot this weekend (in a city with the toughest DEMOCRATIC gun laws in the US) Ask THEM if they want the police eliminated.... not the white elitists calling for it (who just happen to have hired private security) You people are literally insane. And it seems your common theme....

Right now it's just destroy everything you can get your hands on. Lovely plan these dems have..... real positive message... but when your whole message is "Hate America!" (because I guess "America First!" or "Make America Great!" is taken already?), who knows what the hell they are thinking.... but RUSSIA is the whole problem. Good grief... see "self awareness" above.

guess when it's all ya got, um, left.... it's all ya got left....

01-Jul-20
KS. Will not dispute alot of what you say. Do you run a business? Do you have employees families counting on you? Just tell me what Biden and the new left are going to do for us? I will agree the Republicans have been feeding us BS along time, that is why Trump was elected.

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
Ground hunter- what I think he will do for me, my family, or my business is not the same for yours. I run a business and have employees families depending on me. So does my wife. I think he will make the tax structure more fair as my taxes actually went up under Trump. Lower corporate taxes I am in favor. Bigger tax breaks for the rich is the trickledown BS we know does not work. Personally, his views on gay marriage directly affect my family. He would help keep natural resources laws that protect the wildlife and lands I value an American value. He may try to close some gun loopholes that I think are desperately needed. I also think public option health is a good idea.

Please consider I’m no Biden fan as I’m not sure he’s up for the task. It is not a forgone conclusion that I will vote for him. It is forgone that I will not vote for Trump based on his performance, divisiveness, and constant habitual lying . And before KPC joins in here with cut and pasting my words, I understand perfectly the two party system...I just don’t buy into KPCs arrogant BS. It’s a damn democracy first. I’ll vote for whom ever I wish. Screw the parties if they can’t put a sane rational adult up as a candidate.

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
"And before KPC joins in here with cut and pasting my words, I understand perfectly the two party system...I just don’t buy into KPCs arrogant BS. It’s a damn democracy first. I’ll vote for whom ever I wish. Screw the parties if they can’t put a sane rational adult up as a candidate."

Well, the United States is a constitutional representative republic not a democracy so I guess until you understand that, and what that means in terms of the legislature's power structure, you can go right and think parties don't matter.

Furthermore, who said you can't vote for whomever you wish? Certainly not me. If you want to vote for the Green Party candidate, or the Rent Is Too Damn High Party candidate or anyone else instead of Biden, please...be my guest.

KPC

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
Splitting hairs aren’t you. As if the term “democracy” isn’t used a million times a day by Americans and political candidates as a general term for our government in conversation. But you do you KPC.

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
You might think it's splitting hairs KSf, but the details of how the power structure works in a two party system matter.

Unless and until everyone realizes that all the power in our system is derived by which of the two parties fills the most seats, people will continue to believe that such trivial things don't matter. "Screw the parties" might just as well mean you'd like no say in the matter.

KPC

From: elkmtngear
01-Jul-20
No way this site can be Pro Trump...KsLiblander is way ahead of the pack, when looking at the sheer number of postings on this thread! ;^D

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
Ok, Cliff Clavin. Are you saying that 3rd party votes have never affect our political election outcomes or government policies? Also, are you this obtuse with your friends? Your strawman is showing.

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
Keeping it fair and balanced elkmntgear

From: TD
01-Jul-20
Hey KS, no problem.

It's your party, you can cry if you want to.... cry if you want to....cry if your want to...,

From: JL
01-Jul-20
FWIW.....I have seen our form of govt described in numerous ways with none being totally incorrect. These are just a few....pick one. The last two are from usconstitution.net

- Constitutional Republic

- Democratic Republic

- Federal Republic

- Constitutional Representative Democracy

For KS.......Prez Trump's views on gay marriage are different than mine. He has said there are more important things to do than get involved in gay marriage issues. It sounds like making any changes to that is low on his list...if it is even on his list. He has come out against taxpayer dollars being used for sex change operations in the military. I would agree with him on that one.

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
Yes KSf, as a matter of fact we have had situations where a third-party candidate affected the general election. In the case of Ross Perot, votes that probably would have gone to Republican went to him instead.

In other words, people that were center to right leaning that thought they were going to teach Bush a lesson for “read my lips...“ and voted for Perot shot themselves in the foot.

Third party candidates almost always negatively affect the major party they most align with.

KPC

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
That was a bit of a rhetorical question but thanks for proving 3rd party votes are important in a “democracy.”

From: K Cummings
01-Jul-20
Of course they’re “important” to a democracy, because in a true democracy they actually have a chance of winning.

They are also important in a system like ours to the extent that they most often hurt those that they most closely align with.

They are almost always a vanity play.

That’s been my argument all along.

KPC

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
And I don’t by your BS argument or your obtuse responses lol. There’s your sheep Trax.

From: Trax
01-Jul-20
What opinions should we "learn" from and "share"? That cops are bad and criminals are good? That all lives matter or only one shade? That terrorist groups like Antifa should be "considered"? That the rats who literally take over police precincts and city blocks should be "listened" to?

I asked you to answer to this multiple times. Only a sheep would run away and avoid having to answer to this, your very own attempt at telling us how “willing” you are to consider all views and beliefs. Can’t run now KS, only hide.

From: Will tell
01-Jul-20
I'm still here. As long as the Republicans go far right and the Democrats go far left the number of Independents are going to grow. You can't tell me that right now the American people would not like to have a third choice. You bet your A$$ they want a third choice. The further apart the Republicans and Democrats go the more room in the middle for Independents. Beside our time is just about coming to a end fellas, a new generation in 2028 is going to decide the path we take. All those old farts in power who are in. Ontrol will be long gone and hopefully be replaced by a new smarter generation.

From: KSflatlander
01-Jul-20
I’m not answering for crap I don’t believe in. Your generalization are exhausting.

01-Jul-20
Trax,

I will take a shot at it, though I am not speaking for Ryan.

I posted this above already...There is a growing divide of either real or perceived inequity in both income and wealth in America. Right or wrong, Republicans are receiving most of the blame for the inequity. The abyss grew wider during the Covid crisis, as we saw folks who had enough liquid wealth to take advantage of a gyrating stock market, one even posting here he did just that.

That inequality is the fuel load for much of the tensions in our country today. Trump's "style" and ability to take advantage of business opportunities, even while in the WH, is an agitation for many.

You most likely will counter with the wealthy took the risks and anyone could have done so, yada, yada, yada...And I agree. So let's save that debate. It doesn't matter how we arrived where we are at today, the burner has been turned up to high on the bitterness people feel for having been, in their minds, left behind or even taken advantage of by the system. Here is my prediction, it will take long past November to change this perception and cool the tempers boiling over. Trump will not be re-elected barring an extreme extraneous event that might be a game changer, and I don't see that happening. His credibility, again deserved or not, is in a pit that's unrecoverable.

Conservatives are being blamed for this, and that trumps (small 't', not our president) all of the other glorious accomplishments in your mind that you have pointed out.

From: Mike in CT
01-Jul-20
Frank,

You've brought out some good points for discussion, points that don't have anything remotely approaching discussion, just 180 degree poles of demagoguery.

You correctly point to a growing disparity in income and wealth in America and the perception that there is an inequity there; this begs the obvious question or questions, beginning with why does this disparity exist and by what metric is there an inequity?

On the first question in any fair-market capitalistic economy the opportunity to achieve wealth is there for the taking; while it's true that not everyone will make it it's also true than anyone can make it. That would make the framework equitable by definition; absent any unfair advantage to a section of the population we all begin at the same point in theory. We can point to those who inherit wealth or position and claim this constitutes inequity but this in inaccurate; only if the initial accumulation was unfair with the subsequent passage be likewise. The child of a millionaire is not too blame for his inherited wealth anymore than the child of a pauper is to blame for his inherited poverty.

Now, the second question of perception of inequity; who has fostered this narrative? Certainly not the adherents of the principle of equal opportunity as codified in law; no, the perception has been created and nurtured at every opportunity by those that believe it should be equality of outcomes, and as not codified in law that outcome should be guaranteed either by virtue of newer, "fairer" laws of by judicial fiat when in the minority.

You are dead-on point that the Republicans get the blame for this disparity and they could blame the opposition party and while true to the extent of provable misrepresentations the reality is they haven't done anything close to a good job of defining their position and making their case on the basis of demonstrably provable economic realities. In layman's terms they've been complete pussies about fighting back every specious charge and every economically illiterate talking point they get consistently pummeled with.

You are again in the 10-ring with this inequality stoking the fires smoldering today; one party has done a better job and painting the other into a corner and as long as that party is content to cower expect the flames to get hotter.

Trump's style will never be confused with that of an Emily Post graduate; in a perfect world I think we'd all prefer poise and polish and soaring oratory that inspired. As we don't live in that world I'll accept the warts provided the results warrant it; pre-COVID by and large they did, especially in the minority community; those economic gains didn't happen when we had gentility and soaring oratory with his predecessor but they did happen over the past 3 1/2 years.

Does Trump deserve another 4 years? I'd say he does absent a better alternative. If anyone doubted the level of hatred for him one need look no further than the number of Americans on record as declaring they intend to vote for a candidate so obviously of diminished mental capacity. When I consider this I find it laughable that many of those people speak of their fear for this country if we have 4 more years of Donald Trump; you could probably find more logical reasoning in a ward full of flat-line EEG's.

Can he win? Absolutely; it's all well and good to declare your intention to vote for Biden and I know some of those will regardless of how badly he performs in the debates; for those presently on full boil but with rationality on their side those debates will throw glaciers of ice on their fires and calm reason will prevail.

Ben Franklin probably had no clue as to just how prescient he was when that woman questioned him in Philadelphia, asking "What have you given us?" and he replied, "a Republic, if you can keep it."

01-Jul-20
Mike,

I answered Trax’s question, so it was relevant IMO. And, I did not want to get into another debate that goes no where. We can discuss the reasons why the perceptions laid out may exist, but that was not my point. Simply, those perceptions exist and no amount of well constructed prose on sites like this will move those perceptions one iota before November.

01-Jul-20
And Mike, too many assumptions going on. I will not be voting for Biden or any other democrat this election, like the vast majority over my life time. Mark Cuban had some sage advice, vote Republican for Congress and something else for President.

Remember, last election I called it very early that Cruz would not be the R nominee and Hillary would not be President. The Iowa Electronic Markets have a gap that I don’t believe has ever been closed before, and the gap is widening. Stick a fork in it, he’s done.

01-Jul-20
“...only if the initial accumulation was unfair with...”

Mike,

I know you are at least ten times brighter than me, so I feel a little foolish pointing out the subjectivity of these words, especially “fair”. Subjectivity is a lousy foundation to construct an argument on.

From: JL
02-Jul-20

JL's Link
HFW....I wasn't familiar with the IEM so I did a little looking around on them. They are one of several futures market prediction sites. The IEM predicted a Dem (Hillary) would win the 2016 Prez election. They did call Hil and Trump as the nominees correctly. It will be interesting to see how they and other futures sites fare this time around.

"Currently, the market has former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and businessman Donald Trump earning their party’s nominations, and the winner-take-all market predicts a Democrat winning the presidential election."

From: Bobmeister
02-Jul-20

02-Jul-20
JL,

It takes a little time to really familiarize yourself with IEM. They changed their prediction on 2016 with zero time to spare. They being the actual betters.

Yes, a contested Dem convention is a strong possibility based on Joe's deterioration. They are probably a lot of the reason why the rumor about Hillary is gaining traction.

02-Jul-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Being there are Google meisters here, remember the government's lawsuit against banks for discrimination? Might even suggest some of that continues today.

If people have to pay more for a mortgage, it negatively effects their buying power on all other goods and marginally leaves less for savings...which has an impact on wealth they will to their heirs.

From: K Cummings
02-Jul-20
"Now, the second question of perception of inequity; who has fostered this narrative? Certainly not the adherents of the principle of equal opportunity as codified in law; no, the perception has been created and nurtured at every opportunity by those that believe it should be equality of outcomes, and as not codified in law that outcome should be guaranteed either by virtue of newer, "fairer" laws of by judicial fiat when in the minority."

Ironically, by virtue of the fact that many of those fostering this narrative have themselves become wealthy doing it, it just goes to prove that equal opportunity does indeed exist.

"Trump's style will never be confused with that of an Emily Post graduate; in a perfect world I think we'd all prefer poise and polish and soaring oratory that inspired. As we don't live in that world I'll accept the warts provided the results warrant it; pre-COVID by and large they did, especially in the minority community; those economic gains didn't happen when we had gentility and soaring oratory with his predecessor but they did happen over the past 3 1/2 years."

One thing that seems to be missed is that while you or I might prefer "poise and polish and soaring oratory," there is a whole segment of the population (of all colors and socioeconomic positions) that actually prefer Trump's brashness. For the first time in their lives, someone is not only speaking for them, but speaking like them.

KPC

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
Mike- you admit there is inequality issues but completely danced around the reason only to say it’s nobody’s fault. So if you’re born rich or poor it’s not your fault but good luck? Republicans have long focused helping corporations and the wealthy. Then when the get an opportunity they give bigger tax breaks for the rich. I know, I know, everyone got a tax break right. The tax breaks unfairly help the wealthiest the most. I get tired of hearing that there is equal opportunity in America when we stagger the start and add weight around the necks of the blue collar middle class and poorest among us. Then Republicans try to destroy a public health care option that also help mostly blue collar and low to middle income folks...without a replacement.

I get so tired of hearing this trickledown BS while the income inequality gap keeps growing. But right wing nuts have so weaponized social programs and bottom up assistance as “socialism” Republicans don’t dare try to do thing that may really elevate income status. But praise Trump when the get their Trump checks.

I think your response to Frank is the Republicans talking point on the subject that goes in circles. The “be happy with crumbs” and “just work harder” falls on deaf ears when your working 40 hours a week at $7.25/hour with two kids.

From: K Cummings
02-Jul-20
"I get so tired of hearing this trickledown BS while the income inequality gap keeps growing."

Just as the rest of us get tired of hearing the I can't survive on a 40 hr minimum wage job BS.

I have a lot of clients that would be considered by many to be "wealthy," and almost to a person they share a few common traits.

1. Very few of them inherited any money, and if they did, they were already doing well on their own. For the people I know that were broke when they inherited money, it didn't take long for them to be broke again.

2. Very few, if any of them, became wealthy working anywhere close to only 40 hours a week, regardless of the rate of pay. They will also tell you that if you are making minimum wage for more than a short time, you SUCK as an employee.

3. Many of my "wealthy" clients lived during the depression, or had parents that did. To a person, they will tell you that they wish they had as many luxuries as the "poor" do today.

KPC

From: Rocky D
02-Jul-20
While we set here debating issues in an effort I hope is to understand the divide.

Currently we have 13% of the population wanting 100% of the attention. Why is this?

Between politics and the media they are using African Americans to build the divide! Without the divide they do not win the election. What is social justice? What is wealth equality?

These are academia created problems! Academia will use statistics and all other data to support there position. Why are producing so many soft degree programs that do not correlate to the salaries worthy of a four year degree!

Academia is constantly trying to manipulate the system to where it supports their agenda. What guidance counselor is going to question someone choosing to be a school teacher or social work for example? They do not educate students that jobs are the same as sales! It is all about supply and demand.

They are literally creating a devoted constituency. You cannot pay teachers, Soldiers, and cops their true value. The volume is to great! Why don’t they prepare kids for reality instead of painting a picture of an unrealistic society all the while trying to indoctrinate our children to hate the greatest country known to mankind. Sadly, we sit and watch as we have no say in what our kids are taught.

Our children are being led to economic slaughter! First they are told that everyone deserves a living wage. Would some economists please define for me what that is? Their actions are not based sound economics. Everyone needs a 15 dollar McDonald’s gig but no one wants an eight dollar Big Mac! I would like them in a way to legalize marijuana but I do not want see our values undermined. The problem is many of these will be lost and those are the ones that provide the politicians their have nots! Instead of looking at our institutions we look at individuals.

They need people to fail and this failure is going to perpetuate their lust for power! Honestly, if 90% of forty million people vote Democrat then why would you want things to change? Remember, they are in the getting votes business. Regardless whether the sitting president they have to attack him and his position on issues.

The reason that President Trump polarizes these groups and many of his own constituency is he is a leader and not a manager. A manager takes in the information and makes ambiguous decisions that spreads the potential fallout. The reason that General Mattis and John Bolton through their tantrum was that Trump didn’t showed leadership in trusting his own intuition based on the input that he received. A leader is the guy who makes the hard decisions without fear of fallout. Neither Mattis or Bolton has to account for a failed presidency!

In the Army we have a saying “discussion after decision is dissension! Any good staff officer knows the rules of the game!

What we need to realize is that these issues are irrelevant in the grand scheme. You have a two party system that is fighting for power and control and one wants to dynamically wants to change how we go about our lives every day.

Please do not beat me up on the 13% because African Americans are just the vehicle for change. The Democrats need Chicago and all the other bastions of crime, poverty, and a segment of society that does possess the hope for the American dream.

From: 1boonr
02-Jul-20
Ksflatlander- I would really like to take a look back at all of the bad choices somebody made to have them in a position where they are making 7.25 an hour with two kids. These people need to be taught at an early age that actions have consequences. The majority of people who have good jobs, are in that position because they worked harder than the losers. Typical leftie logic, blame something else for a inequity, never blame the loser

02-Jul-20
Yes, we know codified laws work so well as they ended discrimination in lending, right? Oh, wrong, they didn't . Nice try though, google for some more evidence while you tap dance around facts and push your emotionalism instead, we are used to it by now.

Rocky, the last thing I did before coming here to post this was to encourage, via email, an excellent student I have had for two semesters to continue reconsidering her questioning whether she wants to continue pursuing an education degree to be a elementary teacher. In writing, I said I felt she had great talent that would be wasted in such a career and she would most likely find greater economic prosperity and higher personal satisfaction in the career she is now looking at. For years I have told kids wanting to be professors to reconsider as technology is going to eliminate most of the positions. Point being, teachers are not some monolithic group that conservatives love to sell out of spite that all NEA political contributions go to Dem pacs. I get it, but talk about sheep following the Daily Wire and Ben Shapiro, that's what I grow tired of.

More on the conservatives dumping people together...if you continue to work for minimum wage you are a lousy employee was suggested above... There are folks who never get above minimum wage because the market determines they are not worth more. Some examples that my life has exposed me to are people who suffer from autism or other mental/physical/emotional challenges. Amazing that people here that want others to think they are so smart just don't get the lack of empathy they continually display by painting with such a broad brush. People are individuals, quit trying to put everyone into neat boxes.

Yes, I do believe our country ought to discuss a "fair living income", how to go about it and have mostly private entities like churches, synagogues, mosques and other civic groups do most of the heavy lifting is a discussion I would love to witness. The conservative based critics who claim that government support programs have eliminated a lot of involvement in churches and other civic minded groups like the Moose etc. have a very valid point in my mind. We need to move away from this. The debate shouldn't be about whether we have an obligation as members of society to each other, but rather how we provide them support and what level is necessary.

Just like I believe the barbaric act of abortion reduces humanity down to nothing more than any other animal, of which I believe God did not intend, we lose a little bit more of the precious difference between the other animals when we categorize all people who need help in the same group as people who refuse to use their God granted talents.

Yes, pick on me for being a teacher. 30 years at a community college though has opened my eyes, not from what colleagues say but from actual dealings with real people. There are many who fight to remain above the water, who try and really have trouble for whatever reason to just survive. I don't know why I was blest/fortunate enough to not face their same challenges. Most of these folks are people who will never have a need to consult a financial planner, read into that that what Kevin and I see are probably totally different samples. But the vast majority of my students are capable and biting at the bit to get more active in responsible positions and lead productive lives.

Good discussion, thanks. Yes, I was triggered:-)

EDIT: Booner, those "losers" are someone's kid and children of Christ.

02-Jul-20
Rod,

I don't think it is great at all. Tell me how such a symbolic act will actually improve anyone's situation. It's nothing more than political pandering by an individual who most recognize for his incompetence. The results will be nothing more than fanning the flames. When he gets accused of being anti-American, he deserves it.

From: BowSniper
02-Jul-20
There aren't going to be ANY social programs if we don't also have a strong military. Biden laughed at the idea that China is gonna eat our lunch! That is probably the biggest issue going into this next election, an NO ONE has pushed back harder against China than Pres. Trump.

Remember, it was the Obama/Biden administration that allowed China to build and fortify a remote island in the South China Sea to claim hundreds of miles of that area as their own.

Have you seen the new Chinese Xian H-20 stealth bomber? An amazing copy of our B2 flying wing. How about the new Chinese J-31 stealth fighter, their exact copy of our F35 fighter. The Chinese are stealing our intellectual property, robbing us blind!! And Joe Biden is completely unaware or in total denial (or in their pocket because of his son?).

China and Russia are now BOTH ahead of the US in hypersonic missile deployment. That also happened during the Obama/Biden years. Are you not paying attention or do you just not care????

When Biden left office, look up how many US fighter planes could no longer even fly. And then tell me again how you could vote for Biden over the mean orange man....

From: Will
02-Jul-20
Trax - appreciate your answer. It seems from that, to me, the biggest issue is the court's continued push as far right as possible. I dont get the admin's approach to many of the other things noted from economics to social issues to alienation of allies to environmental issues. But I get the desire of a person who's strongly conservative to view the courts at any cost as valuable to one's views - given that would yield decades of decisions. That's certainly an ideological winner, and if Trump wins in November, his judicial impact which is big already will be massive.

Rocky, I'm not sure I follow you totally. Your comment RE leaders/managers got me thinking though.

Leaders and managers are parts of the same continuum. If you run a business or team, your manager/coach IS a leader. The key thing is that leaders need to serve those they lead. Leaders are NOT focused on being in power, for example. They are focused on empowering others. The best leaders focus on helping others seek and perform their best.

When leaders deflect responsibility for anything bad, while suggesting they are the best at everything simultaneously, literally, by definition, they are not doing a good job leading. They are doing a good job of self promotion, but a poor job of leading.

That latter group is good at generating false hope. They are good at drumming up emotion. But generally are really bad at fostering follow through or long term success. It may come in occasionally and yes, there are always examples to disprove norms... That does not mean extreme's should then be viewed as the norm. For example, a leader performing like that (no responsibility, guru-like, about self power and not the development of those they serve) may have boom bust cycles vs steady progress. Generally that makes it hard for them because no one can be sure of how long either cycle will last, and that instability makes those following them have a hard time sustaining buy in, which over time erodes confidence in the leader.

Getting people fired up and excited is not leadership, it may be guru-ism, it may be a role a leader uses when about to do something hard, but it's not the key tool in the toolbox.

Leader is a role, and a position. Just like manager. In other words, one can be put in the position of leader, but not rise to the role it requires. It's really hard to be a good leader over the long haul. Just like anything, it requires constant work and effort... Learning. Leadership requires a constant willingness to understand ones intuitions are often wrong and the patience/humility to seek more information. Excellent leaders draw on the expertise of those around them and understand that process is vital to the success of the whole the leader is working for as well as the goals the whole is working towards. Leading requires the humility to know one is not an expert in all things, and that they must seek help while empowering those helpers.

Being a good leader is hard. It's heavy with responsibility.

02-Jul-20
Will,

Single best post I have read in a long time, thank you. I could not have written those words, but they sure resonate because you solidified for me what I think but could not articulate.

From: Trax
02-Jul-20
I know that was a sincere attempt HW and a good one. But you miss the main point, or at least one of two. " Simply, those perceptions exist "

Those perceptions exist among WHO? They exist among a vast majority who will not vote Republican anyway. They exist among the Marxist leadership and other assorted leftist power players and their captive blind dumb sheep. Many others do not like President Trump's style, sometimes I don't either. What counts is what the prez delivers, and he has been a Godsend. Not if you're a liberal of course, but the conservatives and both independents and moderates will still vote for him. The difference between Reagan and Trump are key. Both conservative as served, but by record Trump more so. That isn't the stark difference though. Reagan was hugely beholden to the Party, Trump is not. Reagan gave way too much to the liberals in order to get some of what he wanted. Trump has too, but not nearly to that extent. He at the same time has negotiated a number of truly better deals for the USA here domestically and around the globe.

Will, that's a good post. We don't agree on a number of issues, but agree on some believe it or not. I don't believe as it sits today's young people (Gen Z, Gen Alpha, Millennials) hold special promise as you seem to. They are blatantly ignorant and easily led. They've been indoctrinated in our government schools to embrace radical liberalism as a mandate. No choice here, believe what we tell you to believe or else. Hopefully once they start paying taxes and a mortgage they wake up to a degree.

The answer to all the pandemonium and rat infestation in the streets we see? Rule of law. From day 1, if they (cities, counties, states) had enforced the laws on the books NONE of this would have happened. You want to protest, get a permit. You can not shut down streets or walkways. You can not burn cars, You can not take over police stations. You can not take over city blocks. Arrest them in mass as soon as they break the first law. Put them on the ground, arrest them, and charge them for every violation they commit. Where did most of these things happen? In cities where we have leftist mayors and governors. If the Democrat Socialist Party gains control of the White House they will empower these America hating anarchists and other assorted hate groups. You will see the economy dive and our streets turned over to the left. My prediction? President Trump wins in a near electoral landslide similar to 2016.

From: Rocky D
02-Jul-20
While we set here debating issues in an effort I hope is to understand the divide.

Currently we have 13% of the population wanting 100% of the attention. Why is this?

Between politics and the media they are using African Americans to build the divide! Without the divide they do not win the election. What is social justice? What is wealth equality?

These are academia created problems! Academia will use statistics and all other data to support there position. Why are producing so many soft degree programs that do not correlate to the salaries worthy of a four year degree!

Academia is constantly trying to manipulate the system to where it supports their agenda. What guidance counselor is going to question someone choosing to be a school teacher or social work for example? They do not educate students that jobs are the same as sales! It is all about supply and demand.

They are literally creating a devoted constituency. You cannot pay teachers, Soldiers, and cops their true value. The volume is to great! Why don’t they prepare kids for reality instead of painting a picture of an unrealistic society all the while trying to indoctrinate our children to hate the greatest country known to mankind. Sadly, we sit and watch as we have no say in what our kids are taught.

Our children are being led to economic slaughter! First they are told that everyone deserves a living wage. Would some economists please define for me what that is? Their actions are not based sound economics. Everyone needs a 15 dollar McDonald’s gig but no one wants an eight dollar Big Mac! I would like them in a way to legalize marijuana but I do not want see our values undermined. The problem is many of these will be lost and those are the ones that provide the politicians their have nots! Instead of looking at our institutions we look at individuals.

They need people to fail and this failure is going to perpetuate their lust for power! Honestly, if 90% of forty million people vote Democrat then why would you want things to change? Remember, they are in the getting votes business. Regardless whether the sitting president they have to attack him and his position on issues.

The reason that President Trump polarizes these groups and many of his own constituency is he is a leader and not a manager. A manager takes in the information and makes ambiguous decisions that spreads the potential fallout. The reason that General Mattis and John Bolton through their tantrum was that Trump didn’t showed leadership in trusting his own intuition based on the input that he received. A leader is the guy who makes the hard decisions without fear of fallout. Neither Mattis or Bolton has to account for a failed presidency!

In the Army we have a saying “discussion after decision is dissension! Any good staff officer knows the rules of the game!

What we need to realize is that these issues are irrelevant in the grand scheme. You have a two party system that is fighting for power and control and one wants to dynamically wants to change how we go about our lives every day.

Please do not beat me up on the 13% because African Americans are just the vehicle for change. The Democrats need Chicago and all the other bastions of crime, poverty, and a segment of society that does possess the hope for the American dream.

From: JL
02-Jul-20
Leaders accomplish the mission thru others. Managers manage the resources that accomplish the mission.

Also...the old adage is applicable here.....we are all guaranteed for the most part equal opportunities.....no one is guaranteed an equal outcome. We can't mandate a person to take advantage of the opportunities out there....we can only make sure the doors are open to anyone wanting to take that first step. If a person chooses not to walk thru the doors of opportunity when they open....that is their choice and that's ok. However they should not come back later and feign being an aggrieved victim. Poor decision-making on their part does not constitute an emergency on the country's part.

02-Jul-20
"They exist among a vast majority who will not vote Republican anyway." "My prediction? President Trump wins in a near electoral landslide similar to 2016. "

Trax, I don't see how both of those are possible. But we do agree on the rule of law and there should be zero tolerance for violence against people or property and all ordinances must be adhered to. Support Trump 100% on this.

I hope you did not miss a subtle point about generalizations though. Just because there are issues folks disagree with Trump on, don't conclude they are a Marxist, American hating, anarchist etc., etc. Both extreme sides sell the all or nothing, and most just recognize life is a little more complicated than that. You often refer to the simpleton sheep, well it's those same sheep not buying the all or nothing. Trump more than any other current candidate is perceived as the biggest seller of all or nothing, with me or against me. People are starting to see it is divisive, just as they have realized the MSM is corrupt. It's not the media driving the turn away from Trump at this point, it is what Will laid out above.

Rumor is starting to grow that he may drop out, that the polls have him concerned and he does not want to have history say he was defeated. I discount this heavily, but the logic is sound to me. We learn something new about the populace every election, what a great system our Founders created!

From: Trax
02-Jul-20
"GENERALIZATIONS" All people who disagree with Trump. to what extent? I disagree with him. You are talking about people who do not like any or all of his policies. I know, not all are Marxist or the like. The vast majority are not. They support them though. Directly, or indirectly. They just don't all realize it. One vote supports them.

"PERCEIVED"

By whom? Decisions must be made and the buck stops at the prez. I believe there is no working with Marxists or radical liberals in general. That mean the likes of Pelosi and Chuck the smiling Possum. That isn't being divisive, that's looking out for the USA and we the people.

From: Mike in CT
02-Jul-20

Mike in CT's Link
”Mike- you admit there is inequality issues but completely danced around the reason only to say it’s nobody’s fault.”

No, I stated there while the is inequality it has nothing to do with a system gamed from the onset to favor one subset of the population over the other. That is simply liberal mythology constructed to divide and preclude actual analysis as to the root cause(s) of the income disparity. As to “fault”; to a degree being in financial disrepair is the fault of a sizeable swath of those in that camp; from poor decisions on a college degree to poor decisions on planning a family and a lifestyle that earnings could not support; those are not a function of government or economic policy; those are life decisions and another pillar of the liberal mythology is that absolution from personal responsibility should be a given as there is the ever-present and convenient “the system” boogeyman to point the accusatory finger at.

”So if you’re born rich or poor it’s not your fault but good luck?”

Simplistic analysis of what I said and more designed to continue argument over discussion. The point was that there is no predetermined condition of “fair” or “unfair” at birth; what follows in either direction is a function of the individual as the framework of American free-market capitalism does provide the opportunity for mobility, either upward or downward. This is touching on that personal responsibility/accountability demon again.

”Republicans have long focused helping corporations and the wealthy. Then when the get an opportunity they give bigger tax breaks for the rich.”

Again, this is an argument built upon a faulty premise; it works only if tax breaks are given conditionally and by class; when applied equally that is the definition of fair. When opportunities arise for expansion of businesses and corporations that creates job opportunities and it supplements future earnings from the millions of Americans who have 401K’s and other retirement funds. Those funds do not grow on their own; responsible fiduciary decisions need to be made to ensure they flourish. When someone can explain the unfairness of the top 1% paying more in taxes than the bottom 90% combined I’ll give an ear to the argument about the unfairness of both the system and tax breaks; until such time it’s a baseless argument if fairness is the true barometer as those screaming the loudest insist it is.

”I know, I know, everyone got a tax break right. The tax breaks unfairly help the wealthiest the most”.

Well that’s a start; acknowledging that everyone got them. Unfortunately you then proceed to undercut yourself with the following sentence in which you deem those unfair; if everyone gets a tax break then no one is excluded from that benefit and it is not unfair. You attempt to rationalize this point by arguing that the wealthiest benefit the most. Let me know when you argue that they bear a disproportionate share of the tax burden as I illustrated above; somehow I don’t see you ever taking up that cause. When the wealthy reinvest the additional revenue there are downstream benefits that know no class boundaries as well. I’ve always loved the inevitable fallback position of “they just stick in the bank” as if the money sits in a vault molding. Banks use that money to write mortgages, small business loans and other forms of investment that benefit a broad swath of citizens.

”I get tired of hearing that there is equal opportunity in America when we stagger the start and add weight around the necks of the blue collar middle class and poorest among us”

I get tired of hearing excuses for failure when the primary actions taken are to extend a hand with a demand to be taken care of. I get tired of simplistic distillations of a complex reality that again, precludes constructive analysis in favor of fractionating the populace. I can share a real world example of someone who graduated with a BS and had twice as much student loan debt as income initially. In the view you seem to be championing that person could content themselves with the “staggered start” and “weight around the neck” meme and commenced with his very own pity party and decrying the unfairness of the system.

Here’s the choice (damn, there’s that word again) that person made; went back to school and got a Master’s Degree and significantly increase his earning power to better support the family he had started. Seeing still greater earning potential that came with a risky career change he opted to take on that risk, and succeeded in the new career still further increasing his earning power to the point where he could afford to send his oldest daughter to a private teacher for flute lessons, his son to baseball camps and his youngest to the Nutmeg School of Ballet. None of that arose from a government program to “level the playing field” and he didn’t rob his neighbor in the form of confiscatory taxes designed to redistribute wealth. He relied on his own initiative, accepted the responsibility for whatever outcome arose and busted his you-know-what to achieve his piece of the American dream.

”Then Republicans try to destroy a public health care option that also help mostly blue collar and low to middle income folks...without a replacement.”

The PPACA was poorly constructed and in my opinion, purposely designed that way. The intended goal was not affordable health care for all under that legislation but rather a necessary prerequisite step towards single payor healthcare that would inevitably be floated as an option to the predetermined and predesigned collapse of that house of cards. As to the lack of replacement that is simply not true.

”I get so tired of hearing this trickledown BS while the income inequality gap keeps growing.”

The concept of broadening the tax base via universal tax cuts is not “trickle down economics” (by the way, this is a Democrat coined term and ironically what they try to argue is more in line with Keynesian economics than what Milton Friedman so eloquently espouses.) Are the top 1% getting richer? Of course, that’s a function of simple math; that however does not constitute and unfair or unjust system and what is unfair and unjust is advocating a punitive approach to take from those who have risked and succeeded to give to those who have not.

”But right wing nuts have so weaponized social programs and bottom up assistance as “socialism” Republicans don’t dare try to do thing that may really elevate income status. But praise Trump when the get their Trump checks.”

I’d have to agree that the debate has been needlessly polarized; as we are a hybrid system with aspects of socialism it’s a poor position to try and defend (any aspect of socialism is evil).

”I think your response to Frank is the Republicans talking point on the subject that goes in circles. The “be happy with crumbs” and “just work harder” falls on deaf ears when your working 40 hours a week at $7.25/hour with two kids.”

I think both you and he missed the point; the following sentence to be blunt doesn’t deserve a reply; a)it’s personally insulting and b)it’s a crutch used to prop up an indefensible argument. We all have choices and we should all be willing to own those choices and whatever outcome arise from them.

From: K Cummings
02-Jul-20
"These are academia created problems! Academia will use statistics and all other data to support there position. Why are producing so many soft degree programs that do not correlate to the salaries worthy of a four year degree!

That is actually a large part of the problem. We have convinced a couple generations of people that the only way to live a decent life is to get a college degree, at almost any cost or amount of debt (which, by the way, is a large part of why young people can't survive on entry level salaries) while the jobs that once made up the middle class, skilled and semi skilled trades, are literally begging and pleading for decent workers.

"Being a good leader is hard. It's heavy with responsibility."

Yes, and a large part of that responsibility is honesty.

It's easy to blame Republican policies for a perceived wealth gap but in reality, many of the areas where this "wealth gap" exists is in our major metropolitan areas...which have been under almost complete Democrat control for a half century.

KPC

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20

KSflatlander's Link
We all know there is opportunity and choices. We all understand that you can't legislate to prevent bad personal choices. I too feel that individual choices have consequences. However, for a kid born into poverty the opportunity is there to improve their economic situation but it sure isn't equal. There are no fancy words that convince me that a kid in the lower 10% bracket who wants to improve his situation is on the same starting line as someone in the middle or upper class. You know that and I know that. The Trump tax breaks that mainly went to the richest among us and the trickle down theory that it will be better for all of us is the fallacy. Why not invest our tax money more directly to help kids born in poverty to move up? Investing in inner city schools and free college education to some who are starting way behind would be better.

I'm not advocating for equal results but for equal opportunity. The unequal opportunity produces the inequality. I do not see the Trump administration or the currently Republican leadership focusing on leveling the playing field or making the starting line more far. The Trump tax breaks made it worse. After all, Trump started "with a small loan" from his father of $1 million. The most benefit to take advantage of the opportunity should be at the bottom not at the top.

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
KPC- Based on your post then I assume you advised your kids to be a carpenter and a construction worker instead go advising them to go to college?

From: K Cummings
02-Jul-20
"KPC- Based on your post then I assume you advised your kids to be a carpenter and a construction worker instead go advising them to go to college?"

One of them yes, one of them no.

Two different kids, two different sets of interests, two different skill sets, but both are self sufficient, work very hard and are doing well in their chosen vocations. One has a degree in finance and works in that field. One has no degree (but does have student debt...against our recommendations) and works in manufacturing.

Any other questions?

KPC

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
Oh, thank goodness. You advised them based on their skillset instead of telling them "academia" is a part of the problem and not worth it. Makes sense.

I always laugh when I hear the academia is leftist evil stuff. Education is bad...they will turn you into liberals. As if nobody has a choice (there's that damn word again) to believe what they believe.

By the way, I'm pretty sure evil Marxist socialists will come for your first born when this thread count hits 666.

From: K Cummings
02-Jul-20
"Oh, thank goodness. You advised them based on their skillset instead of telling them "academia" is a part of the problem and not worth it."

Ironically that is pretty much exactly what we told him, but like many young people he thought he knew better.

As a result, he is paying off his student debt, without the benefit of a degree...and wishing he had never borrowed the money.

That's another thing we believe in by the way. Taking responsibility for your own decisions.

KPC

02-Jul-20
Ryan,

Great point about education. Traditional college enrollment continues to fall, colleges closing is almost common now. Trade school enrollment OTH is climbing.

Love when folks like to point out challenges already being corrected as if they are the only one smart enough to recognize the issue.

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20
"The Trump tax breaks that mainly went to the richest among us and the trickle down theory that it will be better for all of us is the fallacy."

No fallacy. Job creation by private industry is critical for economic growth. Over 5 million new jobs were created under the Trump administration. BTW, how do you give "tax breaks" to the bottom 10% when the bottom 44% pay no taxes? BTW, isn't zero taxes the ultimate "tax break"?

"Why not invest our tax money more directly to help kids born in poverty to move up? Investing in inner city schools and free college education to some who are starting way behind would be better."

We do. TANF, SNAP, Medicaide, WIC, Section 8 housing to name a few. Single mothers make way over the $7.25/hour you mention above. The real issue is parenting. You can't welfare or tax break your way out of lousy parenting.

"I always laugh when I hear the academia is leftist evil stuff. Education is bad...they will turn you into liberals. As if nobody has a choice (there's that damn word again) to believe what they believe."

Education is great and the ticket out of poverty for many. Both my kids have advanced degrees and both were bombarded with liberal propaganda all the way through college. They made their own choices but most of their friends bought into the liberal BS. When my family's tuition dollars are paying for an education I expect the focus of instruction to be on the subject at hand, not the professor's political beliefs. Of course you are fine with this since it's liberal doctrine being pushed. Would you feel the same if your kids were in college being force-fed conservative doctrine on a daily basis?

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
"That's another thing we believe in by the way. Taking responsibility for your own decisions."

As if most of American's (Left or Right) including myself don't. Your condescension is something to behold.

From: Will
02-Jul-20
Academia is in interesting issue. We need better, and more evidence based academic practices in our nation. We most definitely need better science, math etc... But could use this pandemic challenged moment to help improve the academic system and the performance of our young people within the system, and ideally, when they leave it behind and enter the world. After all, whether the best move for a kid is to be a carpenter, baker, astrophysicist or cellular biologist... knowledge and learning to think are really important skills.

That's a good point about that wealth gap. It's funny how some states which are very rich have high gaps while some that are poor have relatively low gaps. Quite the complex issue to tackle with a lot of layers. Especially since 18 of the 19 poorest states have R controlled legislatures (both chambers). The 5 richest states have both houses controlled by D's (at least based on the data I just double checked to make sure my memory was correct, in fairness, this may have changed a small amount as my data was from early 19). Yet some of those rich states with D legislatures have high gaps... While very poor states with R legislatures have low gaps.

Some of the states with high gaps, have poor people that are well ahead of the poor people in places with low gaps... So the gap is huge but the poverty less.

This stuff is really complicated. It's clearly not just a politically directed thing, even though I just tried and failed to make it one... It's really based on a whole giant role of issues in any given region. And that reality is way more complex to think about with layers upon layers of sociocultural funkiness making a simplification like political party = local/regional wealth really hard to do.

From: TD
02-Jul-20
Three quarters of this "bad start" is literally a moral issue, not economic. You could hand out fistfuls of money to people and change nothing, likely make it worse like our "War on Poverty". My guess is a child born to a two parent household with a father present and raised by decent, honest, hard working people as role models will fair much better in life. My bet is that is a far better indicator of their future than what tax bracket they were born into or what race they were.

Poverty? Race? When you see Asian families come to this country from what makes our inner cities look like luxury and in just a single generation or two make leaps and bounds to gain what one may call "American Dream" ..... from nothing.... What does that tell you? That Asians are a superior race? Or they have a culture and work ethic that creates and achieves? Tell people they have to change their habits and culture to succeed and..... you're a racist. Even when it has nothing whatsoever to do with race.

Exhibit A: Nearly all those white liberal ANTIFA pieces or chit rioting across the country come from very wealthy families. NYC mayors and such.....

Morality and a work ethic are far more important IMO. And are two things that are actually denigrated and discouraged in societies where many fail in life. And in many cases trying to "guarantee an outcome" has exactly the opposite effect.

The situation with "the poor" will get no better until the people themselves change and become better. Social constructs of an Entitlement ideology has made things FAR worse.

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20
This ^^^

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
They do hear conservative views in college. They hear liberal views. They should hear to both sides just as I did in college. But you can choose right.

Maybe the correlation is backwards. The more educated you get then generally you become liberal and open to different cultures and ideas and plights. Sorry, KPCs condescension is rubbing off. My apologies. Disregard.

From: Tilzbow
02-Jul-20
^^^^ It all started with kids being awarded ribbons for participating..... In sports and life there are winners and losers.

From: K Cummings
02-Jul-20
"As if most of American's (Left or Right) including myself don't."

Sadly, I don't think that is the case for many Americans...especially those that consider themselves victims of some wealth, income, or opportunity gap.

KPC

From: JL
02-Jul-20

JL's Link
"My guess is a child born to a two parent household with a father present and raised by decent, honest, hard working people as role models will fair much better in life."

Alot of studies show this to be true........the full article is at the link.

"In fact, the research is clear on the overwhelming benefits of married parenthood for children, as IFS senior fellow W. Bradford Wilcox pointed out on Twitter in response to DePaulo. He tweeted a quote by Sara McLanahan and Isabel Sawhill from The Future of Children, which states, in part: “most scholars now agree that children raised by two biological parents in a stable marriage do better than children in other family forms across a wide range of outcomes...”

One reason married parenthood is best for children is the stability it provides. “On average, no other relationship delivers the kind of stability kids need like marriage does,” Wilcox explains. “Across the United States and much of Europe, parents who marry before having children are markedly more likely to stay together." By age 12, for example, children in cohabiting families are about twice as likely as those in married parent families to experience a parental breakup.

Marriage also protects children against poverty. While single-mother families are more than five times as likely to experience poverty as married-parent families, single fathers and cohabiting parents are also more likely to live in poverty.

We also know that children are safer in married-parent families. They have a lower risk of being exposed to domestic violence because married women are less likely to experience physical abuse than single or cohabiting women. Likewise, children are at the greatest risk for abuse and neglect when they live with their unmarried mother and her boyfriend.

Finally, marriage is still the best means of binding a father to his children, which is important, as we are continuing to learn more about the significance of the father-child connection. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) explained in a 2016 report:

Fathers do not parent like mothers, nor are they a replacement for mothers when they are not at home; they provide a unique, dynamic, and important contribution to their families and children.

Furthermore, new research has identified a biological consequence of father loss: shortened telomere length, which is linked to adverse health outcomes in adulthood. As study co-author, Daniel Notterman, recently told IFS, the findings show that “a central role for the father is optimal for his child’s well-being.”

Can single parents do a great job raising kids? Of course, but we should acknowledge that children raised outside of marriage face more obstacles, including a higher risk of family instability. We have a responsibility to continue to promote married parenthood as the premier family form for child well-being. Younger generations deserve to hear that, on average, children do best when they are raised by their own mother and father in a stable family—and this stability is more likely to occur in marriage. In my case, I am grateful that the single parent who raised me had the courage to teach me that lesson."

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
Of course you believe that lol. I said “most” by the way.

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20

Pig Doc's Link
"They do hear conservative views in college. They hear liberal views."

LOL. Not sure where your kids went to college but unless they were studying political science its unlikely they heard any conservative views. Link indicates liberal professors outnumbering conservatives 28:1.

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
Conclusion...liberals are smarter

From: Bowbender
02-Jul-20
"That's another thing we believe in by the way. Taking responsibility for your own decisions." As if most of American's (Left or Right) including myself don't. "

Must explain why AOC, Sanders, Liarwatha and host of others have such a huge following with regards to their student loan forgiveness policies. You know, accumulate $100K plus in debt on a degree that has no usefulness in the real world and expect to have that loan made null and void.

02-Jul-20
They certainly hear conservative views from me, and I direct them to take classes from professors who will them them lies, I mean the other side. Just kidding!

Ryan and Will are correct. They need to hear it all to build critical thinking skills.

From: Bobmeister
02-Jul-20

Bobmeister's embedded Photo
Bobmeister's embedded Photo

From: Rocky D
02-Jul-20
The more educated you get the more indoctrinated you become.

I am not responsible for fatherless homes but can blame that on all of the great society legislation in the sixties!

The unwed pregnancy rate in African Americans in 1964 was twenty eight percent compared to over seventy percent today. Babies daddy is hindrance to getting a government check! The diminished role of the African American male is crippling a large segment of that community. Look up Jordan Petersen on YouTube he is an expert on Beta males. Do not think you have to be alpha male it goes much deeper than that and much of their behavior is predictable.

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
You explain Trump follows first. That’s the real mystery. And your premise assume I and all liberals agree with AOC.

From: Rocky D
02-Jul-20
Bowbender, AOC not has student loans so she would be a direct recipient of any government repayment plan. She also has problems with the IRS but no worries this government gig will make her solvent!

02-Jul-20
What I have difficulty processing is the same people here who expect everyone to be self reliant and get over any obstacles life throws their way are the same people who believe higher education mentally cripples people for life.

You just can't make this stuff up!

From: Bowbender
02-Jul-20
As Ryan jumps in a Dodge and speeds away.....

You took the position "That's another thing we believe in by the way. Taking responsibility for your own decisions."

We, meaning we liberals, believe in taking responsibilty for ones actions or decisions. So, defend the statement, in light of what I posted. 'Cause.....garnering a huge following based on voiding student loans pissed away on useless degrees sure sounds the opposite.

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20
"Conclusion...liberals are smarter"

Conclusion... those that can, do. Those that can't teach.

No offense Frank :)

KS still can't explain how you give "tax breaks" to people that don't pay taxes. I think he has "tax breaks" conflated with welfare, just as he has socialism conflated with social programs. Debating liberals is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

From: Trax
02-Jul-20
KS isn't alone, no liberal when cornered can defend radical liberalism. Reality and facts get in their way with ignorance their basis. "The more educated you get then generally you become liberal and open to different cultures and ideas and plights" He might be kidding, but a lot of liberals are arrogant and dumb enough to actually believe this. What kids should be told from little on is in this country you have a right to prosperity and you have a right to poverty. Your hard work and good decisions will decide which you get.

02-Jul-20
You don't see them saying about the black young men, killed in the CHOP zone, of Seattle,,,,, How can any democrat or liberal, explain the actions of the ding dong leader of Seattle, a inept mayor................... they never say anything about that.................

all the chaos in Democrat run govts. If this is what you want, this is what you will get with Biden.............................. I stand with Trump,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I did not say I will stand with Republicans, a lot of them are just as inept, but I will stand with the President..........

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
You all are going to have to stand in line to take shots at a liberal. I might start charging fees.

From: Owl
02-Jul-20
Reminds me of the CF. I always agree with TD. Not so much with Pig Doc but, when I do, it's like he's speaking my thoughts to the letter.

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20
Thanks Owl. I think? :) Oh, the good old days....

From: 1boonr
02-Jul-20
Ksflatlander- liberals do not want to take responsibility for their own decisions. Expecting a business to pay them what they think is a living wage would be making somebody else take responsibility for their actions. That is one example, there are many.

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20
"You all are going to have to stand in line to take shots at a liberal. I might start charging fees."

What happened to Dana, rod and all your liberal buddies? I admire your conviction but not your logic.

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
Pig Doc- families earning $28k or less mostly pay no income tax. That should be expanded IMO.

From: Owl
02-Jul-20
We did have some fun, Pig Doc. lol

From: K Cummings
02-Jul-20
”Conclusion...liberals are smarter“

This would actually be funny if the feeling wasn’t so pervasive among many liberals as well as many in academia.

KPC

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20
"Pig Doc- families earning $28k or less mostly pay no income tax. That should be expanded IMO."

Finally we agree on something. I'm all for less taxes and less government, for everyone. Your chosen political party wants more government and more taxes, for evil successful people.

From: Pig Doc
02-Jul-20
Wow, I'm actually finding myself agreeing with KPC. This hiatus from the CF has been therapeutic. :)

02-Jul-20
Actually, if a fully independent person were reading all of this for the first time, based on the name calling such as blind, dumb, sheep, no doubt they would conclude conservatives think they are smarter, and rightfully so.

But, conservatives in academia, now those are really some smart people capable of making mince meat out of the pretenders;-)

I never miss subtlety Kevin, even poor attempts at it. I respond to passive aggressive behavior with assertive.

Chad, thanks for the PM. I am not offended, I am used to the intellectually lazy lumping all educators together by now. And you know I do not include you in that group. My undergrad is from a Jesuit liberal arts college, and I was raised in a Democrat pro-union household. None of the 3 children turned out liberal. I agree with Will, the issues we discuss here are more complex than the talking points issued by both extreme sides. Some rather hurl veiled insults than actually probing a little deeper than those talking points because that is much easier for them to mentally wrestle with.

Will, Ryan, myself and others recognize that even doing all of the controllable variables 100% correctly, there still will be negative events that befall certain individuals and not others. If we could all accept that, the next step is to accept some level of a social safety net. How much, what it looks like and how it is administered ought to be the center of most of our discussions, IMHO. From an efficiency stand-point I have not heard anything better to me than a guaranteed minimum income, all other programs being eliminated. The amount, who qualifies, requirements etc. are all open for discussion.

The focus ought to be on minimizing the use of any such program, or rather the need for it in the future. How to do that without infringing upon personal freedoms would also be tough. I don't have the answers, but there are some great minds here including yours Chad. I think we would also derive a lot of satisfaction focusing on improving human conditions for those in true need rather than hitting each other over the head with what we have all been serving up. And if this makes me an idealist, I am glad to be counted as one.

Will, your style and content continue to impress the hell out of me. You truly are capable of thinking for yourself sir. Kudos!

From: bowbender77
02-Jul-20

bowbender77's embedded Photo
bowbender77's embedded Photo
PRO TRUMP ? YOU BET YOUR A$$ !!!

From: KSflatlander
02-Jul-20
PRO ANTI-TRUMP. SLAP YOUR MOMMA!!!!

Seriously, you delete my photo. That answers the question of the OP. Definitely a pro-trump website.

From: Tilzbow
02-Jul-20
The most amazing thing about this thread is the time some of you have taken to write your well thought out commentary; it’s especially impressive given the fact no one is changing their stance and it’s unlikely anyone will.

Regardless of my position the time you’ve taken is appreciated and has been entertaining. For the most part everyone is well behaved and 100% better than “news” commentary with a bunch of JO’s yelling at each other.

From: tobywon
02-Jul-20
Someone mentions crossbow on a thread and many chime in that it’s not archery related and then here is this thread....lol.

From: JL
03-Jul-20
I predict this thread will disappear as it nears 500. It's been a good read with alot of clicks.....

From: Tilzbow
03-Jul-20
So I once shot a sheep with a rifle. I got the tag because I’m rich and “won” it in an auction. I hired an outfitter and had 20 guys in my hero shot. I even knew two of them! The sheep places in the top 100 all time. The guides had it “tied up” before I got there because I’d paid them to watch it months before hand. Absolute monster! I posted it here because I bow hunt when it’s convenient, easy and guided. Plus I’m really proud of myself. So much so my ego needs to be stroked.

Oops, sorry I thought this was a hunting site.

03-Jul-20
Kyle is that you...?!?

From: Tilzbow
03-Jul-20
Oops! My intent was to remind everyone what we use to argue about on this site... Not that other thing....

From: Robert2968
03-Jul-20
As we come to the Forth af July celebration .Lets remember it about freedom to live your life as you Choose.Or Better said as the Goverment says you can do. All that believe the demorcrats are better for this Country .Also believe all republicans and unsatisfied Demorcrats will be put into Relearning camps until they become Belivers Also after 20 January 2021 You will be Required to Register all Bows and only Carry 1 Projectile.That will have to be registered to you

From: Bentstick81
03-Jul-20
"Lets remember it about Freedom to live your life as you Choose". If the dems win POTUS, this will be OUR last year of FREEDOM & RIGHTS. So yes, enjoy this year as much as you can.

From: K Cummings
03-Jul-20
Annony Mouse:

Your picture reminded me of the following quote:

"If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain"

:)

KPC

From: tobywon
03-Jul-20
Tilzbow, is that the one you shot at 1,000 yards even though you could have easily got closer...just to make it more of a challenge?...lol

03-Jul-20
Let's remember we need both a heart and brain to survive, and it is better if they work together.

From: HDE
03-Jul-20
"If the dems win POTUS, this will be OUR last year of FREEDOM & RIGHTS."

Only if it is allowed to happen. Archery tackle will not, and cannot, preserve FREEDOM & RIGHTS...

From: 1boonr
03-Jul-20
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Liberals want to take other people’s fish and give them to people that don’t want to get off their couch. Conservatives are also in favor of safety nets but the liberals want to turn them into hammocks

03-Jul-20
Yes, nets only. You took us back to the importance of education;-)

From: K Cummings
03-Jul-20

K Cummings's embedded Photo
K Cummings's embedded Photo
” Conservatives are also in favor of safety nets but the liberals want to turn them into hammocks.”

Or worse...

...much worse.

KPC

From: Will
03-Jul-20
I'm 100% sure we will not have relearning camps come January. 100%. I'm not sure if that comment above was intentionally comedic, or intended to be real... but just in case, we all need to be clear that it doesnt matter who wins, re-learning camps are not happening. Well, unless the vaccine comes out, and the 5g turns on the signal in the chips we are implanted with and we all have the GPS coordinates to the camp triggered in our brain so we turn up ready to work for Q. So I could be wrong...

From: Trax
03-Jul-20
You are right about no re-learning camps in place by January. It will take longer than that but Marxists and their sheep are patient. In reality the work of a re-learning camp is in place now and growing every day. THEY will tell you what you can not only say but what you can think. They will tell you what is normal and what isn't, what is right and what is wrong. That is being done now.

Interesting that we don't hear much from the ME TWIT movement of late. They've brought down a lot of power players. Problem for them is a lot of them were flaming liberals. The likes of Matt Lauer and Garrison Keillor and Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein and Jeff Epstein. Now they were getting too close, too close to liberal politicians. That was their end. Interesting.

You want poverty for all and oppression on the citizen like we have never seen? Elect leftists. Not all are Marxist of course, but the power players driving them are and worse. You will find them in both Parties, but dominated in the Democrat Socialist Party.

From: TD
03-Jul-20
I believe the re-education camps open up shortly after the local Police are all disbanded.

That's how that works. It's in the history books..... if you will still be able to find one that hasn't been burned or a museum or statue that hasn't been ransacked or destroyed. That's in the playbook as well. ALL the steps we are seeing right now have played out in human history before, over and over.... with horrid endings. People saw it coming..... but did nothing to stop it. In fact humans being humans..... they jump on the bandwagon because, well, everyone else is and they want to "be a part of something". Or the winning side. Or however else you want to word it. It's exactly how it happens.

You are literally seeing that happen before your very eyes. If they are open that is.....

Always amazed me how caviler some are with freedom. They take it for granted like it's always been this way, always will be..... and ignore human history. How they take the rights so many have literally died to protect and toss them to the wind..... so a literal handful of people's precious lil feeling don't get hurt. Want to have a meaningful discussion using FACTS and not safe spaces and tender feelings?.... cool, that's how it should be. We hash it out, using facts and reality.... our people (who we elected, we do get who we elect) get together and come up with a plan. Freedom takes work. Sacrifice. Discipline. Something direly lacking in today's world of perpetual outrage, "look at me" social media and virtue signaling.

People joking about "camps" had best drop the "it can't happen here" nonsense. It can. It will if you don't act against it. It's serious stuff. We are witnessing the steps needed to do so. Disband local police. Eliminate non-approved history. Cancel culture censorship. Threats of violence for non-compliance, threats of arrest for acts of self protection. It's literally happening right now, before your eyes, all around you. Open them.

From: Ambush
03-Jul-20
“I believe the re-education camps open up shortly after the local Police are all disbanded.”

They’ve been open for a couple decades and will really intensify the learning/de-learning curve when they open again in the fall. Right now we just call them Universities and Colleges. But since they all have to be renamed anyway, might as well start calling then The People's Knowng Centers.

From: cnelk
03-Jul-20
After working in the public education sector for 25 years, I know all too well that they are no more than Libtard Indoctrination Centers.

From: KSflatlander
03-Jul-20
Hold on...let me get my tin foil hat. Who the h#%l brought up re-education camps? Will was that you lol.

From: Ambush
03-Jul-20
Laugh it off KSf, but here in Canada we are years ahead of you in the “re-learning camps”. Now that it’s openly manifesting, it’s suddenly very, very un-funny!!

Here’s a very recent example: a man threw ketchup, mustard and eggs on the front door of a muslin meeting hall at night. He was caught and charged with a Hate Crime.

In May someone beheaded eight Catholic statues in a unattended grotto. Did not hit ANY mainstream news outlets yet and if caught authorities have stated they will be charged with mischief. That’s it! And nobody seems too fired up to catch the perpetrator(s).

Check out some of the Cancel Culture firings in the last month. From university board members to newscasters to football players to CEO’s and on it goes.

It’s real alright, but you just tune up your fiddle there Nero.

From: Will
03-Jul-20
Ryan, it was a poster 1 or 2 above my suggestion that we dont need to worry about them.

Hey, happy independence day everyone reading this. This big country is pretty damn awesome, and we are all really lucky to live here. Different opinions and all, it's a really amazing place. Be safe and enjoy the holiday!

03-Jul-20
I guess the re-education camps in Western CO are not open yet, or closed due to Covid?

What is going on? The third Trump endorsed candidate to lose! Has he lost the Midas touch? Luck run out? Or are voters waking up?

Stick a fork in it, he's done, well done.

From: KSflatlander
03-Jul-20
I was laughing it off. Must not have came through.

Will- your positive attitude is inspiring. You have to be the guy in camp that gets everyone fired up after 5 days of climbing mountains elk hunting when everyone is dragging. You’re exactly the kind of person I love hunting with. You’re welcome to any campfire, any treestand, anytime.

Agreed, we are absolutely blessed to live in the good ole USA where we can have discussions like this. Thanks to Pat for providing the Bowsite and these forums.

Very thankful. Happy Independence Day everyone including Trax lol. Just kidding Trax. Have a good one.

From: 1boonr
04-Jul-20
RodB- not a liberal- are you a communist identifying as a liberal

From: BC
04-Jul-20
TDS

From: bowbender77
04-Jul-20
TDS

04-Jul-20
TDS?

Trump Disciple Syndrome?

From: cnelk
04-Jul-20
What does TDS mean? TDS is an acronym for Trump Derangement Syndrome, a term applied to people who express deep loathing and fear of President Donald Trump. It's usually used by Trump supporters for liberals.

04-Jul-20
Lol elk. I know that. I was having fun showing how the same acrynoum has the flexibility to describe behaviors displayed by folks like Trax. Now both sides can use it.

Goes along with our desired goal of equality.

From: Trax
04-Jul-20
What behaviors would that be HW? Sanity and logic without kneeling down and asking for forgiveness? You’re whining again HW, typical lib!

You have a good one too KS. I still remember that big whitetail you shot a year or two back. Like to see another pic. What a slob. There I go again, more labels!

04-Jul-20
Those behaviors, labeling everyone just like Trump and all other 12 year olds;-)

From: rodb
04-Jul-20
Just want you to know I'm still here but they have deleting my last posts, I guess true hurts doesn't boys!

I here the W.H. is looking for the persons that leaked the Russian bounty scandal to the press and when they find them they will put them in jail. Imagine that, putting Americans in jail for trying to save American soldiers lives. Dictatorship at it's best.

From: freeglee
04-Jul-20
Rod, take a Knee or two!!!!!!

you are drunk and need to Rest there a bit!!!!!!!!!

Happy 4th of July, if you are into that sort of things!!!!°°°°°°!!!!

From: freeglee
04-Jul-20
Frank, you might need to Kneel next to the Rod, Stabilization and stuff needed Here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: timberdoodle
05-Jul-20
18,000 lies & misleading statements in his first ~1,000 days in office. Why should I be pro-trump again?

From: Rupe
05-Jul-20
To all you Clowns harping on Russian bounties, which has not been proven, please remember that the coward you have a man crush on, that POS traitor Obama gave Iran Billions and we know with absolute certainty that Iran was placing bounties on American soldiers and manufacturing EFP to burn our soldiers to death so don’t give us any crap about Russian bounties you hypocrites.

From: Robert2968
05-Jul-20
Rupe, I see your one that has to go to retraining Camp....

From: K Cummings
05-Jul-20
"What does TDS mean? TDS is an acronym for Trump Derangement Syndrome, a term applied to people who express deep loathing and fear of President Donald Trump."

Wow, you learn something new every day.

I always thought "TDS" was an acronym for Tyrannical Democrat Supporter.

KPC

From: Will
05-Jul-20
No way! I thought that TDS stood for Touch Downs. Which Cam Newton is going to score a lot of playing for the Pat's this year. Sorry Frank, your Chiefs are one and done :) (optimism is a good thing)

From: rodb
05-Jul-20
Nice of you guys to support the troops that protect your freedoms. You would rather stand behind bunker boy than the American troops when bunker boys tells nothing but LIES!

From: grizz
05-Jul-20
Ya know, I absolutely hated Obama. But throughout that terrorist entire 8 years in office, I referred to him as THE PRESIDENT, as he was the elected president of the United States of America. You Nancy’s keep showing your ignorance. It shows exactly what you are.

From: Will tell
05-Jul-20
I'm still confused. We live in the same neighborhoods, our kids go to the same schools, we go to the same church, but your saying if your neighbor is a Republican or a Democrat he is to blame for our problems. Let's get real. The political parties have us so brain washed that they blame each other for the problems.

When I see legislation and laws that would benefit us all fail because our representatives vote with their political parties instead of voting for what's good for the country. That is a real problem.

So what now. Are we living in a Democracy where the majority rules or are we going to try to have a minority rule because they think their right and the hell with the majority. President Trump is losing in all the polls by a wide margin, if he loses or wins the USA is going to be okay. The Republicans and Democrats are only looking out for themselves and will do anything to stay in power. We need to get rid of career politicians and set term limits to break up some old politicians from getting too much power. We need to replace those with younger folks who are more in touch with our country and start changing the the direction for the better. If the majority of the country wants a new President that that's what a Democracy is. For a political party to try to steal a election using underhanded tricks can't be good for us.

One thing that has me confused, I can see both parties using dirty tricks. When a President has people who he selected start to say he isn't fit for office makes you wonder. Not just one or two but quite a few who are respected Americans. It seems if your a man of integrity your not going to last long with our President.

From: KSflatlander
05-Jul-20
Will tell- Great post!

From: happygolucky
05-Jul-20
If Biden chooses Kamala Harris as his running mate, I am afraid it is all over for Trump. Hell, it might be all over anyway. Trump will get my vote again because I can't vote for liberals but I am one of those conservatives who is honest and does not like Trump the person. If he was in my family, I would never admit it.

05-Jul-20
Will tell,

Good post and I agree with you.

Someone keeps pointing out Mr. Trump's conservative rating by the ACU, more conservative than Mr. Reagan's we are led to believe.

Personally, I would rather have 8 years of Reagan than just 4 years of Trump. Regan left a positive legacy that continued to have a positive impact on capitalism and markets worldwide, long after he left office. We are in jeopardy of a total Democrat victory, both houses of Congress and the executive office as well. If the animus to Mr. Trump's style allows for the Senate to fall to Democrat control, that will be at least partly on Trump. And the credit given to Mr. Trump, rightfully so, for nominating conservative judges can be offset by what the Dems will certainly try. Rational people could see this coming. Trump should have been able to as well, but that is why I also agree with Ziek's post some time back that it has always been about Trump, not the nation.

From: BC
05-Jul-20
Hey Will, Kansas will have to come up with a new name by kick off time. The Chiefs will soon be on the hit list. Maybe they could be the Kansas City Native American Leaders.

From: KSflatlander
05-Jul-20
Is this the 4th or 5th registration after getting kicked on the Bowsite...Shawn Magyar, Hedge Hunter, HH, and now Pua Nalu. Am I missing any of your other fake registrations?

From: Trax
05-Jul-20
Yes Will, as you said you are confused. This nations was not founded a “Democracy” where the mob rules and it has never been so. This is a representative Republic. What we the people have control over in mass is who does the representing. That’s why it’s so important to keep the America hating hybrid Marxists out of political power. They have been infiltrating our system for decades. They don’t for the most part identify themselves as such of course, that’s how they keep the blind and dumb sheep under the ether. The blind dumb sheep is the base of the Democrat Socialist Party. You know, those that believe the government has the money to pay the way for all of us. Free college, free food, free medical, free housing, there is no end. When of course the government has never had one dollar, only what they seize from we the working people. Those liberals like HW who whine about “labels” make the grade too. Blind dumb sheep.

You are also confused about Party affiliation to a degree. More people vote liberal or conservative in reality than you think. Not necessarily Democrat Socialist or Republican. If you are anti-Party and pro doing what is right for the citizen then President Trump is your guy. His own Party has not been in favor of him because he does not bow to them. Power players within his own Party loathe him for that very reason. He is not a Republican, just the Party tag he ran under. He is a conservative Independent. You only have to look at his stand on the issues as a whole led by who he has placed on the bench to know that. Or you can check with sources like the Heritage Foundation or ACU if you can’t see it for yourself. The ChiComm virus has changed the playing field in many respects including this election. Biden is a pawn as Obama was, they will do what the Socialist cabal tells them to do. At this time in 2016 Trump had no chance against the Hildabeast. He now has no chance against crazy demented Joe. We shall see, won’t we. My more exacting guess is he loses one of the major swing states he won last time ( Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida), loses the 1 electoral vote he got in Maine and one other state he had won. Maybe North Carolina. He wins at least two states he did not last time, let’s say New Hampshire and either Virginia, Colorado, or Nevada. He wins and term and this nation desperately needs him to. The leftists and power Party players hate Trump but the silent majority knows what Trump has done in his first 4 years is save the Republic. For now.

From: K Cummings
05-Jul-20
"You all better jump on the DJT Train. He may well four or five SCOTUS Justices on the bench. Oh, and they not gonna be John Roberts types either."

Like it or not (and I do) judicial appointments and the exposure of corruption in media and in our own government will be Trump's longest lasting and most impactful legacy. Policies change, tax laws change, economies expand and contract but the real work is done in the courts and the media.

History has a way of judging things differently, even just a generation later. Let's not forget Reagan was absolutely despised by the left, much like Trump is now. They said the same things about him that they do about Trump, it's just that we didn't have a 24/7/365 news and social media culture.

What thanks did Abraham Lincoln get at the time...a bullet in the back of the head.

KPC

05-Jul-20
Trax,

Not a chance I am a lib, but again you do the same thing Trump does and just don't get that the divisiveness is not selling any longer.

In the future I will share how as a conservative I stood by conservative principles doing so in a manner that put my career at risk. No doubt I will retire earlier than intended, and at that point I will share the full story here. I cannot at this point as it is a personnel matter, but have shared it with AM, Jack, who I know is discrete. I also know what I post is monitored. I have a long record of doing the right thing, and have seen the big talkers shrink when it actually became time to be counted or not. I am not one of them.

Your appearance and style on these types of threads, combined with your minimal involvement on others and your anonymity with regards to your registration makes me think you are a paid influencer. I have wondered if it is allowed because the site also receives support, or just because your views parallel the owner's. It is a private site, so censorship is allowed, but it always surprises me that the most vocal about the press say nothing about limiting views here. Seems inconsistent positions, yet we only recognize when others do it.

Regarding Reagan, it doesn't matter what the press said back then. If you believed in conservative principles and free markets, you knew he was the real deal. I always recognized it, and the ability he had with words was truly a gift to this nation. What history always shows is that outside of Jesus Christ, none of us have lived perfect lives.

I certainly don't have that feeling with Trump. Love his court appointments, love the de-regulation, lower taxes, stronger military, protected border, taking on China and trade in general. JMO, but these will all be over-shadowed by his inability to put 8 years of it together because of the divisiveness he fostered. We already knew the press was biased long before he arrived, which you acknowledged with regards to Reagan. He helped tarnish the reputation of FOX by them allowing it. His legacy will be that we will never put such an extreme narcissist in office again.

From: Will tell
05-Jul-20
Let's cut through the political. BS. Republicans are just as corrupt as the Democrats. You fellas keep trying to label everyone as conservative or liberal. The majority of Americans believe in the same values and are hard working people. You keep saying this and that about Democrats that I find hard to swallow. The Democrats are just as guilty about the Republicans.

You mention blind dumb sheep, couldn't agree more, but their both Democrat and Republican sheep. I don't need a political party to tell what to think. The only difference I see between parties is the Democrats give my money to the poor and the Republicans give my money to the rich. Either way I lose. Both sides are getting rich by selling their votes to special interests. Insurance companies, Drug manufacturers, Wall Street and Banking, Gas and Oil companies. They do this by getting us fighting over gun rights, abortion, etc., etc. and not looking where the problems are.

Don't blame your neighbors for our problems. Greed and power seems to be the problem IMO.

I personally take pride in the fact that I'm a independent thinker. No political party or no one tells me what to think. I judge people by actions not political affliction. I read and try to keep up with what's going on and come to my own conclusions.

05-Jul-20
"I personally take pride in the fact that I'm a independent thinker. No political party or no one tells me what to think. I judge people by actions not political affliction. I read and try to keep up with what's going on and come to my own conclusions."

AMEN BROTHER!!! Wish more people would, or even could!

From: Bentstick81
05-Jul-20
KPC, Good post. I have my own business and can honestly say that 8 years of the worst POTUS the U.S. has ever had (obama), my business was slow to mediocre, and with Trump, business has been great in the 3 1/2 years of his Presidency. I will disagree that who ever wins this election, Republican or the anti-American democrat, the Country will not be fine. If Trump doesn't win, stick a fork in this Country, it will be done. JMO.

From: Ambush
05-Jul-20
Is there a chance that President Trump will bow out (for whatever reason given) and someone with a less “lightening rod” presence will step in?

From: K Cummings
05-Jul-20
” I personally take pride in the fact that I'm a independent thinker. No political party or no one tells me what to think. I judge people by actions not political affliction. I read and try to keep up with what's going on and come to my own conclusions.”

I feel the same. I do my own research and arrive at my own conclusions.

Having said that, in my opinion, anyone who votes that way (regardless of party affiliation) for anything other than local elections, simply doesn’t understand how the power structure works.

KPC

From: 1boonr
05-Jul-20
Timberduddle- if you believe that President Trump has told 18 lies and misstatements per day then you were never pro Trump.

From: rodb
05-Jul-20
"But unlike the last presidential race, where the effort never truly took off, this time those rebel Republicans have formed better organized groups – and some are even openly backing Trump’s Democratic opponent, Joe Biden."

Look out some are already jumping ship

From: Ambush
05-Jul-20
^^^ You mean like before the last election with all the derisive, dismissive spewing’s from talk show hacks, media influencers, news channels, Hollywood stars and starlets, Oprah and gaggle and politicians all about how they would leave the US if it ever happened?? Those rats stayed on the ship after all. I guess the harsh reality of giving up their “principles” or their cushy lives was to much.

From: K Cummings
05-Jul-20
"Is there a chance that President Trump will bow out (for whatever reason given) and someone with a less “lightening rod” presence will step in?"

Did he bow out when at this time in the 2016 campaign he was given ZERO chance of winning?

KPC

From: Will
05-Jul-20
Trax, was that me you were aiming at or Will Tell? If it was me which post of mine were you commenting on so I can understand. Or is Cam Newton not part of the Democratic Republic?

BC good point... there was a sports writer that used to call Washington the "DC Indigenous Peoples" or similar. They could go that way and KC could stay the Chiefs, it's a good name, strong and about leadership.

I'm sure they will get pushed though... KC Comanche perhaps... I think they were one of the tribes in that area, originally.

From: Bou'bound
05-Jul-20
at the rate he's going this Site may be the only thing he will have left to count on in November

05-Jul-20
If Biden wins the White House he will have a badly fractured country to try to govern. Pro Trump here live or die! Left and Right of center need to work together and DEAL with serious issues. Otherwise we all are witness to The Decline and Fall of the American Empire. Note today's response to a possible flag burning at Civil War memorial. Far Left/Far Right elements need to go!

From: Pig Doc
05-Jul-20
Back to the origin of this thread:

"If not I would like to know why some of my posts are being deleted?"

Maybe because you have absolutely nothing to say other than "I hate bunker boy Trump". There are dozens of well thought out posts here, on both sides. Exactly zero of them have come from the Trump-hating OP that started this thread. Why are people arguing with someone with the intellect and maturity of a child?

From: grizz
05-Jul-20
The Washington team owner needs to change the name of his team , to the Maryland Redskins. Get out of DC completely.

KS, you’re right, that near illiterate spew has to be HH . But that’s all you’re right about!

From: Annony Mouse
05-Jul-20
Kamala Harris is certainly hoping for the Biden pick. She and her staff have been editing and deleting her Wikipedia to make her more suitable.

Perfect pick as the Democrats are demonstrating that removing history and creating new versions suits their ill educated supporters. Too bad that they aren't woke enough to follow companies re-branding to remove the taint of Aunt Jemima, Uncle Bens, Dixie Chicks, et. al.

05-Jul-20
41 shot in NY yesterday...Happy 4th of July!

From: Matt
06-Jul-20
Kamala slept her way into politics by dating the married Willie Brown. The dems know that will be publicized and it will taint any campaign. She is also way too left.

Susan Rice is more likely IMO.

From: DanaC
06-Jul-20
If the GOP makes it about sex, do you think p*-grabbin' Trump will shine? Friend of Jeffrey Epstein and his girlfriend/pimp Ghislaine Maxwell? (Who will probably found dead in a cell, a convenient suicide...)

From: Robert2968
06-Jul-20
If in 2016 this would have been someone the RNC had wanted to be head of the Ticket it would have Been Jeb Bush. They did not want Trump or Cruz . And worked hard agianst them. This has not Changed they want one of there own. The people did not want a person that only said the right things but did nothing. At least with DJT you know if you attack him your getting something Back. He is not just going to let it go. No I don't like all his Tweets but that's Just Him. Another President would of done what they told Him.Not to use the Phone or tweet. I am a Dem. But will be Voting for DJT

From: Mike in CT
06-Jul-20
The 2020 election doesn't need to be about anything other than the issues; most people are astute enough to realize there was no ideology attached to SARS-CoV-2 and those who bother to look beyond the rhetoric realize we've done well in managing it (yes, we have seen a resurgence but that, in all likelihood has much more to do with mass gatherings for the protest du jour than sound policies (and one need only look to states where the sheer volume of these gatherings has been small to miniscular to confirm this) enacted.

Clearly the economy had been performing well, but especially for minorities who had grown so used to tokenism that it's taken them awhile to fully appreciate tangible results. The economic tug-of-war with China, often criticized has forced that country into at least approaching honest entry into the global markets and that, in and of itself is a vast improvement the downstream benefits of which will only foster further economic growth, not only in the US but globally.

Meaningful prison reform, another favorite "talk, but do nothing" plank of the left was actually addressed by Trump; highlight this while drawing the contrast between empty promises and promises kept.

With regard to the candidates on the left there is no reason to go any further than their history of failures of governance; the Library of Congress isn't large enough to contain all the tomes required.

For those who have already proclaimed the re-election chances of Trump to be doomed, you are entitled to your opinion and mathematically speaking you have a 50/50 chance of being right. I would offer that many on the left do not share that comfort level as witnessed by the never-ending campaign to damage him by any and all means possible. Those actions do not bespeak of confidence but rather of the desperation borne of the realization that they have pushed too far and can only await the inevitable crash.

America is not perfect but this is still an inherently fair and just people; I maintain that the only question isn't will Trump win re-election but by how wide a margin.

We'll see soon enough.

From: Huntcell
06-Jul-20
Good to see the CF as popular as ever heading to 600 post.

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-20
"Why they could not see DJT winning GOP primary in 16 and much less the WH. When it was right there in your face. About 80% of the posters here had DJT not even alive after 16 Primary or saying they would never vote for him. Yet he won. . . ."

I admit, I was one of those that didn't think Trump had a snowball's chance of winning, I didn't like him, didn't trust him, and did not vote for him in the primary.

Having said that, I also said from day one that I would vote for whoever the Republican nominee was in the general.

I did just that and will definitely do so again. All that has transpired since the election has convinced me that Trump was exactly the President this country desperately needed, and still needs at this time...warts, tweets and all.

KPC

06-Jul-20
Mike,

The results you listed, I agree.

But we live in a time that substance does take a back seat to style, witness the Kardashians and other freak show popularity.

Trump's own business success is suspect at best, stories abound about people not being paid for example, multiple bankruptcies. He is the biggest con artist of our time IMO.

I look at some of his staunch supporters, which seems to be a declining number. Take Trax for example...adamant about the rule of law all the while posting in violation of site rules. Many are starting to see Trump in the same light, not walking the talk. Certainly arguments can and will be made why Trax is not doing anything wrong, yet Broken Windows argument made the point that minor lapses grow into bigger ones. Either follow the rules or don't complain when someone else doesn't.

I would love to see another 4 years of his policies. But, I don't think the electorate can withstand the daily dumps. Not arguing it's not worth putting up with, just people are sick enough of it to vote for anyone else at this time.

If I am wrong, I will start the thread myself that can dump on me. If you are wrong, no excuses. Trump gets all the blame because with his record he just had to remain mostly quiet, but couldn't bring himself to do it. I hope the Rs hold the Senate.

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-20
” I maintain that the only question isn't will Trump win re-election but by how wide a margin.

I agree Mike.

Anyone that lays this divisiveness all at Trumps feet is either not very bright, or not very honest.

No President in the last century has had the constant barrage of lies, accusations, and vitriol waged against him that Trump has had to endure.

To a large extent, Trump’s behavior is a result of this 24/7/365 barrage, not the cause of it.

Fortunately, I believe enough of the electorate sees it for what it is.

KPC

06-Jul-20
"Anyone that lays this divisiveness all at Trumps feet is either not very bright, or not very honest. "

Anyone making a statement like this you can conclude the same about. I don't see anyone who laid this all at Trump's feet. People that don't understand the Oval Office obligates the occupant to a higher standard doesn't understand leadership and has obviously zero experience in it.

And their reading comprehension skills also lack. Trump will get all of the blame for not being reelected, not all of the blame for the divisiveness.

Ball back in the court of the guy who never responds to me, but does while talking about honesty. You just can't make this stuff up!

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-20
"You are the Traditional Polling problem. And. . . . it should stay that way."

Agreed. Conservatives have never been the type to gather in the street and scream at the sky, vomit everything they think they know into any microphone shoved in their face, or stay at home all day just waiting for a pollster to call. It's just not their style.

"The Mob has Orange Man Derangement Syndrome."

OMDS isn't reserved for the mob. There is a certain segment of society that can't be seen by their circle of friends or colleagues as being an ignorant Trump supporter. They are afraid that they might not appear as intellectually enlightened as they would like people to see them. So they will openly say how disgusted they are with his boorish behavior, but in the end they will vote for him anyway.

KPC

From: Gunny
06-Jul-20
Pau Nalu, Crow Bar in Kailua?

06-Jul-20
Must be the people you hang around Kevin. My friends and associates say what they mean and live by it. Not so much from others from what we have seen here, say one thing do another. I get it, you were talking about yourself. Carry on.

From: B.B.
06-Jul-20
The population of the United States is approx. 4.5% of the world's total . However, we currently have approx. 20 - 25% of the world's Covid-19 cases and 20 - 25% of its deaths ! With no strong, unified Federal plan or leadership evident , it's obvious Trump has to go !

From: Pig Doc
06-Jul-20
US is 9th in per capita COVID deaths among developed nations behind Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, France, Netherlands and Ireland.

The federal government has left much of the decision making on COVID up to state and local governments as it should when you consider situations are very different from state to state.

25% of the US deaths are in NY, where Democratic Governor Cuomo required nursing homes to admit COVID positive patients. I suppose this is Trump's fault too?

You are clueless.

From: Mike in CT
06-Jul-20
Bob,

As is the case with a number of lay people you've taken only a very superficial look at the statistics and reached an incorrect conclusion. Pig Doc has touched on a few obvious flaws in your conclusion and you can add factors like patient demographics, population density, access to mass transit, etc to further clarify the situation.

Lest we forget we are also making a true gauging of this pandemic's impact owing to how we're encouraging hospitals to qualify morbidity and mortality statistics as owing to COVID-19. Hospitals faced with the loss of revenue from elective surgeries can't be faulted for making use of reimbursement incentives to code patients as "COVID-19" related in the metrics I mentioned; again, while understandable and in some cases very likely warranted, it skews the data.

What I've observed is there are 2 camps who embrace the statistics in the manner you posted; lay people who are honestly naive about the complexities of epidemiological tracing and infectious disease management and those who have a political agenda.

I don't know you so as I would extend the benefit of the doubt to someone I've just met I will do the same for you and put you in the first category. To me, anyone falling in this category is perhaps the single best example of how our media has completely failed us.

06-Jul-20
The Democrats would have had a chance IF they had a candidate. I was once a strong Democrat, till the party.changed and put in policy a assault on jobs and small business. Biden is an old man, who has been there too long. Trump got in, small business could not afford anymore Republicans either.

From: 1boonr
06-Jul-20
B.B- the covid death count is higher but the rate is going down for other causes like heart disease, cancer and strokes. Why do you think that is?

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-20
” I maintain that the only question isn't will Trump win re-election but by how wide a margin.

I agree Mike.

Anyone that lays this divisiveness all at Trumps feet is either not very bright, or not very honest.

No President in the last century has had the constant barrage of lies, accusations, and vitriol waged against him that Trump has had to endure.

To a large extent, Trump’s behavior is a result of this 24/7/365 barrage, not the cause of it.

Fortunately, I believe enough of the electorate sees it for what it is.

KPC

From: Trax
06-Jul-20
My apologies Will, I was addressing Will Tell. I should have made that more clear, my bad.

" you are a paid influencer"

I can assure you I am not only not a paid influencer (I wish) I am not affiliated with absolutely anyone.

I am as independent as anyone else here, certainly do not see myself Republican with how that Party has veered since Reagan. So you claim not to be a lib HW, I will take your word for it and glad to hear it. You seem to be completely hung up on the Trump style and delivery. I don't like some of it either, and believe much of it could be improved. But he is what he is in that respect, we're not going to change him. He'd be more politically correct if someone could, but I at the same time loathe PC. Focus on his RESULTS. You may not agree with all of them on every issue (nor do I) but that is what matters. First and foremost the court appointments. Presidents serve a short time in comparison to the impact the courts make over a very long period of time. With all the warts, I will say my opinion is President Trump has done more good for this country than any other president in the modern era. And again, this from a guy who did not support him in the primary. Much of that good is the fact that he is an enemy of the old school power establishment and does not bow to his own Party.

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-20
"You seem to be completely hung up on the Trump style and delivery. I don't like some of it either, and believe much of it could be improved. But he is what he is in that respect, we're not going to change him. He'd be more politically correct if someone could, but I at the same time loathe PC. Focus on his RESULTS. You may not agree with all of them on every issue (nor do I) but that is what matters."

I agree, and this can be said about a lot of people Trax. Style over substance and rhetoric over results is what got us into the situation we are in now.

Had Trump NOT been the way he is, he probably would have never been elected and he surely would have never survived his first term.

KPC

06-Jul-20
Trax,

It would be best for the economy if we have another 4 years of lower taxes, deregulation, fair trade agreements, a stronger military etc. As a conservative that's what I want!

The reality is style does count, like it or not. You know this. Yet, some will constantly moan about the fact that style counts, while they point out the cry babies on the left. It is the way it is. Accept it old men.

If Trump could have acted to a level commensurate with the highest office in the world, we conservatives would not be concerned today about a Dem sweep.

And it is simply nonsense he needed to act like that to survive. People say it as an excuse for their willingness to look the other way with his behavior that eroded the dignity of his office. Either we conservatives have standards and adhere to them or we surrender the moral high ground.

And Trump was doing fine accepting the cultural changes, which I do as well given my Libertarian leanings. Let people live and enjoy their lives as long as they bring no harm to others.

Deep down Trax I think we agree on the style. We don't have to like it, but we have to deal with it or find ourselves lost in the wilderness and out of power with zero say on what is important to us.

From: Trax
06-Jul-20
of the more modern era Wilson, Truman, LBJ were blatant racists. FDR a Commie sympathizer and socialist. Carter maybe the most incompetent president to ever unfortunately enter the White House, certainly so in the modern era. Clinton and Obama radically leftist pawns trying to sell out this countries sovereignty to the globalists. H Bush also a globalist and a liberal for the most part and Shrub more left than right in the end. You like their style better? You like their results better? Start with the courts and then move on to every major issue. Style may matter indeed to a degree, but it's window dressing. Results are the food we need to survive as a free nation. Overall the results we have been given by President Trump are great for the country and its citizens. Truly remarkable considering the treatment he has gotten from not only the leftist media and the Democrat Socialist Party but many in his own Party.

From: TD
06-Jul-20
What KPC said earlier. Trump was not my first choice in the primaries..... But as useless as my vote here was, I voted for him. I would have died before forced to vote for a Hillary in one of her many forms. What I found was despite all the rough edges and lack of social filters, the actions and RESULTS were far better than I could have hoped for. Very pleasantly surprised. That's a good thing....

Then over the course of the last 3 1/2years, seeing the blatant lies by leftists and their cohorts in the media, how anyone could hold up much less thrive under such an onslaught.... PROVEN lies over and over and no sense of remorse or dishonor for propagating them.... I started to see it was very likely Trump was the PERFECT man for the job of cleaning house. The entire political world had lost sight they were there to benefit the USA and ALL it's citizens and not themselves. The "deep state" had indeed entrenched it's parasitical tendrils over generations. The Machine had come to exist solely for the machine itself. I've come to see what REALLY pizzes them off is he won't play their game. Couch what you "really" believe in flowery prose, hide your goals from a public who just "wouldn't understand what's best for them." Trump, when when punched, he punches back twice as hard. What he is... is a fighter.... and they don't like that. You're supposed to just sit up there as a target to rail against and do nothing in defense. The media used to toss accusations and insults at conservative officials with impunity. Now they get slapped in the face for their lies and BS. That's not fair! It's not how we've set it up....

Honestly, it's easy to see. Anyone willing to sit down and work out a deal is pretty much dealt with respect. Want to be a dick you're going to be called out as one. A Shiffffft or Pelosi.... where the hell did folks come up with electing such scum. Lying scum they are, I see no problem with Trump pointing that out. CNN? MSNBC? They are literally wrong as much or more than they are right. So point it out... again, literally fake news. So call out their BS, because clearly nobody on the left has any issues with lies and deceit as it helps "the cause", whatever that vapor ghost de jure may be. The entrenched republican swamp won't stand up to them either, just look at them now as cities burn.... they have been trained to fear them. When shots are fired they run to find the nearest thing to hide behind. Say what you will..... Trump will not hide. He is no coward.

Trump has no fear. None. He's done what he wants in life. Now he wants to help the country, it's people. FOR the USA. It's a HUGE wrench in the globalists plans for sure.

I can clearly see he may just be EXACTLY what the country needs right now to clear out the entrenched machine, drain the swamp if you will. He doesn't care if your widdle feewings get hurt by doing so. He does know this thing needs to be run BY Americans, FOR Americans, not Globalists and career politicians/bureaucrats to enrich themselves. Not going to get there being a powder puff on a world apology tour for being strong and successful.

Biden? Seriously? Even if he had a few faculties left, he's the poster boy for self serving politician. The minute he is in charge of Ukrainian policy, his son is hired by one of the most corrupt mega companies in the country for millions of dollars, for a skill set that is solely based on his father and his connections. Then when the cash cow is threatened he publicly, on video.... demands, brags actually, the people looking into it be fired or he will deny BILLIONS of dollars in aid to the country. Yet the left is just fine with that? Nothing to see here.... You people are truly, morally sick. Get help. Trumps words upset you? I'm with him, pizz off...... go find someone who'll TELL you they care.....

And yeah, Matt is correct, Harris literally slept her way to the top, yet few know this because they are WILLFULLY uninformed. And WILLFULLY kept that way. Ignorance is never accidental....

Biden, Obama, Sanders, Warren, Harris, and yes.... many on the republican side as well.... all many TIMES richer than when they took office. How is this? Yet America sits fine with this. Unbelievable they will ignore what sits right in their faces. Trump? he's made his wealth, made his mark. I truly believe he's doing what he can for his COUNTRY. Not some subset special interest groups, for everyone.

For these times he may just be perfect. Fearless. Could care less what someone thinks of what he's doing, he's going to do what he sees is right. Speaks with no filters (sorry if he hurt your feelings....) but if you aren't getting the job done the way he sees it needing done.... hit the road. It's about work and performance. Results. Not who or what you are. Or in many ways what ideology. You may not like HIM, but you can't ignore his results. Economy, Foreign Policy... Judicial appointments.... knocking it out of the park. Honestly, he may be the least ideological we've had in some time. It's about results. Performance. Yeah.... winning.....

06-Jul-20
Just so you know, registered unaffiliated for 30 years.

Yes, all of what you speak to regarding past President's rings true.

But here's two facts why this is different. First, we expect societal standards to advance over time. Proof of this is those of us who find it utterly ridiculous tearing down historical monuments by people using today's standards to judge long ago behavior occurring under different norms.

Second, and probably bigger, social media, mass communications, hyper sensitive media on both sides etc. using any ammo they can. It has never been this rough to manage an image. Tweeting which helped Trump get past the biased press was abused and has led to his over exposure.

Based on the economic performance, this election ought to be a no-brainer. Apparently Trump would rather have a fight.

Trax, given Covid and numerous other challenges, I just sense from multiple sources people are tired of the fighting and need to wake up with less drama in their lives, not another tweet debacle they find distracting. I know it should not be this way, but I think begrudgingly you might admit there is a shred of truth to what is said here.

He does have a chance, if he can listen, come off more positive and show empathy he has time still. But based on what we have seen over his entire live, safe money would bet against it.

Rumors of Alito and Thomas thinking about retirement, this is a dangerous time, especially given Robert's leftward drift.

From: Bou'bound
06-Jul-20
at the rate he's going this Site may be the only thing he will have left to count on in November

From: K Cummings
06-Jul-20
"Style may matter indeed to a degree, but it's window dressing. Results are the food we need to survive as a free nation. Overall the results we have been given by President Trump are great for the country and its citizens. Truly remarkable considering the treatment he has gotten from not only the leftist media and the Democrat Socialist Party but many in his own Party."

Exactly.

Unfortunately, some people are still impressed by the lofty prose, soaring rhetoric and the sparkly window dressing, and some have learned to look a little deeper.

Anyone other than Trump would have withered under the pressure long ago.

Then over the course of the last 3 1/2 years, seeing the blatant lies by leftists and their cohorts in the media, how anyone could hold up much less thrive under such an onslaught.... PROVEN lies over and over and no sense of remorse or dishonor for propagating them.... I started to see it was very likely Trump was the PERFECT man for the job of cleaning house. "

Agree. Reagan was the man for his time and Trump is the man for his. Different times, different men.

KPC

From: BowSniper
06-Jul-20
HFW - in your honest criticisms of Trump's style and delivery, can you similarly address how you think Biden will do better? Especially will his current mental state and subdued response to the progressives/socialists pushing him hard to the left.

Do you honestly think Biden could perform as President for the full 4 years? And how do you think his VP pick (only stated requirement thus far is having a v'gina) will affect national unity with the likelihood of an even greater leap to the left if/when he steps down?

Also - Do you consider decapitating statues a positive or negative influence towards national unity? Trump is for prosecuting those actions... Biden's campaign staff is donating dollars to bail them out. A very real difference on the November ballot... which way do you stand on this??

06-Jul-20
Bowsniper,

I think I have addressed your questions already, but maybe we were typing at the same time? I will try again, and with respect, please forgive my style which is irritating and no one would vote for me as the best guy around. If my irritation works against me, come on man, you know Trump's does as well!

This has nothing to do with what I personally think about Trump, his successes, his failures, nor Biden's. It has to do with what I think will be the outcome in November taking a read on the electorate and the mood they are in.

First, if image doesn't matter, I think Cruz would have been the R nominee in 2016. I predicted, correctly, that he would not be and that prediction was based off of his less than favorable image. Principles on the conservative front, I liked him a lot, but saw him as unelectable on the national stage. Wasn't his last election the closest ever? Demographics in TX is changing, more on that in a minute.

Trump OTH had years of milking shows like Oprah were he worked his magic. Many were probably surprised by his rough edges when in the past he played the common sense dignitary perfectly. They are aware of who he is now, and what worked against Cruz is front and center for Trump. We may not like these facts, but the process has a way of filtering the hard right and hard left out (Where's Bernie?). If someone would quit jumping up and down shouting they are the smartest contributor on BS and think about how they keep telling the rest of us we are fools to vote except for the party candidate because they understand better than the rest of us minions here how the 2 party/republic/democrat process works, they might realize what worked against Cruz is still there.

I don't think Biden will be capable of serving, and only a fool would/could think he will get anything done given the 40 years of documented non-achievement. IMO there remains a high degree of probability of a contested Dem nomination, not even sure Biden will be on the ballot.

Anyone can read into what I think about the utter ridiculousness about destroying or hiding historical monuments. A nation will never relish all of her history because humans make mistakes. But, we are obligated to learn our history, and understand the role it played in making us better now than ever. We must learn history, and learn from it so we do not repeat the same mistakes. I am in total agreement and support with our president that we must identify the culprits and prosecute them under the fullest extent of the law, I am also in agreement with complying with the registration rules of this site;-) Sniper, do you have a problem with people who do not? A fair question right?

So let me get to the most inflammatory response of this post. What I believe is happening is our demographics as a nation is changing rapidly, and as humans we do not like change. I think there are a bunch of older, white men who are having a difficult time adapting to the changes, changes our system is designed to be able to handle. Whether it is bias, or worse, pools of people from different back grounds such as Black, Latino, Asian, Muslim etc. who have felt disenfranchised in the past sense the timing is right to advance major change. If you read any of the polls, neither Trump or Biden are thought of fondly. The Dems are picking up on this and no doubt will have a diverse duo running. Let me repeat, my posts are not about what this old, white, heterosexual, conservative male thinks is best, but rather what forces are at play and how the end results will be affected.

Some of you will continue to slap each other on the back for thinking the way older, white, heterosexual conservatives males think, and even though Kevin once said he is not interested in back slapping with people who think the same way he does, his quotes and accolades multiple times above proves otherwise. I don't have the answers, but am committed to looking, talking and learning. I would rather share my passion for capitalism and markets in a positive way, especially as millennials now begin to outnumber Baby Boomer voters. They, like all other generations respond to positivity and are turned off by a bunch of bitter old, you know what, incapable of adapting. The world is changing, we are either a positive force or history will treat us unkindly just like the current trend of bashing the past.

From: Pat Lefemine
06-Jul-20
Time to lock this topic down. Its run it's course.

This Topic has been locked. Thank you.

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