One question...Is CHAS/CHAP going to be added to the state/regional forums?
No matter.... I ain't puttin' in for tags there.... not even with government money....
even if you drew, that's one place proof of sex goes to another level.... proof of species even....
Fact that most are Conservative, is just a bonus ;^)
Sounds French. Probably not, probably not from Mn either.
Any one see that Congress passed the Great Outdoors Act?? It was a partisan measure protecting all the great forests, waters we hunt and fish on and the National Parks too. Something missed by the mass media. Also something missed by my democratic friends. Its all about orange man bad, perceived racial inequality (really?? I'll hunt or fish with any one of any race or social structure) and all the PC crap.
So, just FYI , should you ever get the opportunity to come to Oklahoma, things you should know. We are about 93% conservative, believe in the Constitution, honor the flag and our veterans, take pride in our history (black, white, and red) and we don’t even mind a few democrats. Oh yeah, we also have constitutional carry here so I’m sure if you were at a local store for provisions and someone walked in with their 357 on there belt, you’d probably have to hide. So, come see us sometime. Just don’t come to my house.
I’m happy you moved.
Life and people just ain’t that simple.
You are giving some people too much credit.
Most of the stuff you say about him you are just making up or regurgitating what you heard some liberal journalist say.
Has he been great for the economy?. Damn right. And that is good for ALL colors. Has he been tough with countries like China who are eating our lunch in trade?. Damn right.
Has he handled the Covid situation the best? Prob not but only time will tell, but no one was ready for this.
I am disappointed in "the best" these current political parties have to offer, or should I say, who our citizens are willing to put up as leaders.
As a nation, we have survived many years of "not good" presidents in recent decades. God help us as we go forward. May we select the best candidate.
Problem is they NEVER leave before sh!tting in the nest and ruining it for everybody else first!
So why in the heck would we want to give 95% control of our lives and money over to an outfitter (govt)??? Especially one that is constantly changing “guides”?
That plain enough for you ?
I’m Shaft2long and I approve this message.
That’s why I re-registered as an independent (previously Republican)
I think the political system we have is badly damaged by 2 parties. Would it be so crazy to vote for a moderate that considered each issue by its own merits as opposed to being married to it for fear of losing a bit of the base they need for re-election?
Conservatives do support hunting. Liberals are more likely to be against it. But Liberals do tend to believe in environmental protection where as conservatives favor business usage or these places. Look at the Bristol Bay issue that is a big deal to fly-fisherman..
Idk, I don't want to pay my heard earned dollars into taxes for the lazy and the criminal. But I also don't want a guy thrown in jail cause he likes to smoke a bowl and watch the Simpsons at night.
I would hope that we would all learn to listen, share, and consider other peoples opinions. We might learn something. We might even find some crazy concept like respect for fellow Americans. Crazy, I know.
Now I've got to find a "build my next arrow" post to unwind.
Most importantly Biden supports the use of Crossbows.
So much for that.
Pig Doc- you could say the same thing about conservatives and Fox News.
As long as it's Conservatives listening to Liberals you mean.
Weeeeeellllll if u don’t watch TV anymore how can you make this argument?
Nah, it's the people who have to fit into a camp, who think the world is black and white, and if you disagree with another on something their broader opinion set has no merit.
I voted for Trump and believe he has done some good things for this country. But I am constantly amazed...and shocked....and frankly discouraged at how many can find no fault in him. Not to mention the absolutely ridiculous excuses they make to prop him - and themselves - up.
Couldn't have said it better... I've got several friends that fall into this category. On the other hand I've got several friends that will vote against Trump just because he's a total jackass most of the time even though philosophically they're moderate conservatives.
Before I die, I really want to vote for someone I really want to be president and not because the alternative would be way worse. The choice always seems to be "crappy" vs. "crappier" and "crappier" always comes down to party alliances.
You all are seriously buy Trumps BS? Screw the news...believe your own eyes and ears. Or is it his dog whistles that make you come running.
Trump has done some good thing but man...he is a national disgrace and international embarrassment.
This is contrary to being a conservative. Conservatives believe in force as a last measure to protect US interests. We're not Earth's police whose responsibility is to solve every skirmish and injustice across the globe; geopolitical, racial, or religious. We do what we can and occasionally save the world from global take-over by fascists, but we have to look out for ourselves because that's the US government's job.
I didn’t vote for Trump in the Republican primary, but it was pretty obvious who I was voting for between him and Hillary - I guess some here miss the obvious choice and somehow think we’d be better off with honest, meek, second amendment and hunting supporter Hillary. And like it or not, those you listed - are the face of your party. Good grief.
"He told me that a lot of you have lost your way for supporting Trump and that I should reach out and save you. So am back and so happy that bowsite is a part of my life again!"
Moses was a murder and God used him mightily.
Those folks are not the face of the party anymore than Roy Moore is of the Republican Party. They are part of the extreme of the party no different than Inholf or Steve King. Last but not least you all have Alex Jones and Glenn Beck. Oh oh and HH.
We can go on with this as if the far extremes of the party represent all views but I don’t believe that. If you do that’s your problem. It’s just simple-mindedness IMO.
I think Midwest has a very good point.
I tend to think Prez Trump should drop the name calling. I know he does it in political jest, as he does with alot of his statements. I think he is very savvy and knows how to play people and the media. Early on I use to think he should stop sending tweeties. However as time has gone on, it's easy to see why he sends them.....to by pass the media.
On election day....there will only be 2 choices...Trump or Biden. We can make a case there will be 3rd choice....that being Biden's VP pick but at the end of the day it's Trump or Biden. Both now have a track record with Biden's being very long (decades long). You can ask what has each accomplished? We know what the Trump Admin has accomplished in 4 years. Without looking it up, I don't know what positive things Biden has accomplished. I know some of the things he was involved with like Obamacare, but I wouldn't list that as a positive accomplishment.
I think when the debates start Biden may struggle to keep up with the topics as Trump will out talk him. I don't think Biden can process his thoughts as quick as Trump. If Biden stumbles frequently, that might overshadow his platform message. The folks will have a good feel of how things go in the first debate.
"Not sure where you get your news but you are lost. The NSC, not Trump or the AG has to approve the book. It has not been approved. You might just want to stop digging as every time you post you show your ignorance. Bolton broke the law. It's very likely he will have to surrender proceeds from the book (this happened to Navy SEAL Mark Bissonnette), or better yet, he can spend some time in jail."
And this "And your girl Hillary? Senile Joe Biden? Liar Adam Schiff? Nancy Pelosi? AOC? Rashida Talib? Jerry Nadler? You must be so proud."
Nailed it!
Perhaps you are not a South Park fan, but back when Obama was running against Bush or Romney, there was an episode where the kid's school was voting for a new mascot. The 2 options were a huge douch and a turd sandwich, and the kids lamented they did not have a better option.
It cracks me up when someone thinks the world will end if one candidate or the other gets elected. IMO they have missed the point. They should be worrying more that, in a country of 300MM+ people, Trump and Biden are the two who made it to the top of the political heap.
Desperate days indeed.
Our future needs the history that comes with this country. They need to be taught the real history. They need the leader that Trump was. If Trump would learn one thing about the passive approach that politicians have perfected is that Americans' respond to people who do good things for AMERICA!!!!!! It is what made him the president he has been and, will be the deciding factor in if he gets re-elected. Be the Strong, non oarty partisan that got you elected man!
The thing that gets me about progressive people is they refuse to acknowledge that for decades, that history has purposely being erased. So, we are deemed to repeat it. And, those same people don't see the recent happenings as nothing more then out rage. When in reality, it is a fight to change this country into something that isn't American by definition.
And, the thing that pisses me off about liberal people is they always say to consider the other person. Well, I do. But that stops when the other side wants to end America as defined. You don't get consideration for that. No matter how you twist things into degrees of reality, some things are black and white. It s either inline with America or it is something that isn't.
There s indeed a big push to change this country. Its been going on for a while and it is human nature. With all the entitlement we have, we were bound to get slaves willing to put purpose to their existence. People mad because they choose the government day care system versus the American dream. And, are willing to take it from anyone else that chose to work for it instead. And, it is straight up political and, the left leaning sheeple allow them to feed it to them like they do everything else. No denying it.
If people are too dumb to see and admit that then they are the problem.
See, this is where you Trumpers go off the rails. Just because I despise the fraud who pretends to be a conservative while giving tax breaks to the rich and making America look stupid, I'm a 'leftist'. And you think labeling ME a 'leftist, commie, pinko, dimmycrat, liberal, yadda yadda' is going to sway me?
If you're happy with the 'make coal great again', lying, can't take good advice, rather golf than listen to briefings, pussy-grabbing slob then this country is truly screwed.
Hey, that kinda hits close to home...
We don’t need to sway anyone - your party is doing a good enough job of swaying people to our way of thinking. The Democrat party has gone insane.
My thoughts exactly Matt.....I look left and right and think, Really! This is the BEST we can do????
Matt, I'm sure you've seen the movie "Idiocracy". We're almost there.
No kidding. Certainly not the best we can do, but our leaders are indicative of the societies which would elect them. When we find ourselves consistently voting against someone (versus enthusiastically FOR a candidate) we're in trouble. The representative government (including president) we elect shows the world what kind of people we've become.
"In the letter, O’Malley Dillon writes that Biden, once formally invited by the commissioner after he officially becomes the Democratic nominee later this summer, will participate in three CPD-commissioned debates slated for Sept. 29, Oct. 15 and Oct. 22."
I have nothing good to say about Obama, but facts are facts. It was distorted video editing, just as the Left does to Trump. Imagine if Trump said, "The Left thinks we should burn our cities and start over", and it was edited to make him appear to say, "We should burn our cities and start over".
Today, I vote for candidates who align (Mostly) with the policies I support. If I want a perfect candidate, they don't exist. Candidates can be nice and tell you want to hear. (And sound good doing it. Think our former president) It is their actions (Policy) that matter to me.
Z Barebow- well said and I couldn’t agree more. That is why dividing all Americans into two groups is a propaganda trap and fallacy that many here have fallen into. And some how less than 1% of the nut cases in a party represent the values and opinions of the other 99% (hyperbole). That is the Sean Hannity business model.
You may not be that far left, but your party clearly is.
The Republicans aren’t the same since Trump - you’re right. But I believe it’s better. Within the Republican Party - there are those establishment republicans and I have no use for them. There is also a large group that are not.
Trump is up to his eyeballs in the Swamp and is doing his best to lead the country inspite of the politicians around him.
30 years ago yes.
Now it's ice cream in the bowl and Jessica Simpson on the TV.....L0L
So what sort of 'Republican party' do you want - skinheads, Aryan bothers, peckerwoods and assorted 'religious' bigots ? because you're dam' near there already.
KSflatlander's Link
Attached is a link I found about how Americans feel about socialism. Pretty interesting data. We all need to realize that there is socialism in our government and the left and right extremes are just arguing the magnitude of it.
Name some main stream/leaders in the democrat party that are not.
If most democrats are not socialist. Trump will when in a landslide. Because like it or not you get to choose either Trump or a party that pushing for a lot more socialism.
DanaC same for you name a few of the Republican leadership that are skinheads, Aryan bothers, peckerwoods and assorted 'religious' bigots.
I am afraid there is no hope.
I reject that 'novel idea' with contempt. Sorry.
My answer is simply yes, and that is not saying I think it should or should not be.
Other "evidence" that it is other than what may have been given above...Pat met with Don Jr. at least once in his NY office and posted it here. I assume since they share hunting at least in common there is a relationship that is positive. Again, don't assume this is a negative.
Secondly, Trax has always been a pro-Trump advocate in his posts. He registers as 'S Z' from Wisconsin. Would you be able to register with two initials and with what you post be able to remain active on BS?
But, if you don't like it, find an anti-Trump site or start your own maybe.
No offense intended to anyone.
Trax- Is that what you call what you do here?
Well, because it is more complex than simply a choice of hunting weapon. There are people here who obviously support those who are against hunting, trapping, and even gun ownership. Better pick your camp mates carefully, there are enemies within the ranks.
Yes, beware of camp mates.
Another hobby of my is taking pictures. I am not great at it but getting better. I spend time on photograph forums and my guess is my political beliefs differ from many on those forums and for that reason I stick to taking pictures. Plenty of places on the world wide web that your views line up with you can talk politics. But if you are going to do it on bowsite you can't spew your leftist views and talk about dividing hunters. It makes you a hypocrite.
You don’t support social security or Medicare? Did you get a Trump check?
You should post on the fishing thread cause you caught some whoppers of red herrings. Your logical fallacies are unending.
Good day to the both of you. I wish you the best of luck this season.
In the coming weeks, Bowsite will be communicating those changes to us. They appreciate our understanding.
Conservatives (not Republicans, who I consider a good number as Swamp born and bred) are not excluding anyone, nor are they trying to remove rights we CURRENTLY have such as the 1st and 2nd amendments. They don't want your money for nothing and everything else for free. Don't care what your skin color is, just get to work, on time and do good work, support your family and try to live a decent honest life. And leave everyone else the 'ell alone. They aren't telling you what you can and can't say. If you can own guns or what kind (guess that whole "nobody needs a black rifle/high cap mags" BS is blown out of the water now) What kind of car you can drive. How much money you can make or how much is fair for you to keep. How much or what kind of personal property you are ALLOWED to own. Or if you can go hunting. Or even what you can bring home after you hunt. Be nice if they'd quit burning down, destroying and stealing what others have actually worked for (YOU may not have "built that" but somebody did....) Be nice if somebody with the local authority found the balls to tell them you can't do that. Stop it. And not have to go to "or else". Maybe give the police some support and help to keep your neighborhoods safe from crime. Be nice if "but I'm angry" was no excuse for anything but rising your voice.
Much was said about the choices we have here in this upcoming election and how poor they are. Those complaining..... what did they do to find a better candidate and support and get someone they wanted elected? Or are you just showing up and looking at the menu? I know I didn't do much but to vote. (Primaries as well as general) A large number don't do either. But will still complain.
Honestly, I consider myself pretty lucky to live in a country were I at least have a menu even if I did next to nothing to obtain the food or prepare it. But again in all honesty, it seems there is a fairly well defined menu as to what kind of food you want to eat, if not necessarily the recipe. Or rather as choices go...... what kind of country you will be ALLOWED to live in....
I don't know that it was...top two most active threads on the front page have zero to do with bowhunting and seem like they'd be more appropriate for the CF.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/23/trump-cdc-overhaul-coronavirus-335039
Weeeeeellllll if u don’t watch TV anymore how can you make this argument?
Matt
And social security and Medicare are social programs. You are not taking back dollar for dollar put in otherwise it would never go broke like it is.
Trump was only kidding. Who are you BSing? I have heard him say it twice now. Seriously you need some real news. Maybe try your eyes and ears when watching Trump talk.
Matt.
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Yes, Bernie and AOC promote more social programs. However, Bernie lost in the primary and AOC is one representative out of 435. The free market system is still here and our democratic system work? The fear tactics are childish.
You want to compare IQs or maybe we should go in the bathroom and compare? Your adolescent insults say everything I need to know about you. Grow the h#%l up. I can definitely see why you like Trump.
Bitches. :-).
You think we have a total free market and a purely capitalistic economy?
Bowbender's Link
Let me know if this is a self-sustaining model? This so called altruistic mix of socialism and capitalism. It WILL implode under the weight of it's current outlay, not to mention the programs suggested by the AOC, Bernie, Liarwatha, Omar.....all the ones you pooh pooh....... You minimize their efforts. Let's not forget someone came up with the brilliant idea of appropriating 13% of my income for 40-50 years with the promise of a 1-2% return.
There...I popped your cherry.
Me too. It's not exclusive to liberals. Those people and cultures.....come here legally, no issue.
Kinda funny.....most protests I see are definitely NOT accepting of other cultures, people and ideas. You must be that rare 1%.
Between this thread and flattening the curve, I would say a restoration of the community forum is in order. I sure would not want to be the moderator and have to read the crap the left is posting as factual. Then again, maybe that's why it no longer is available,,,,,Hmmmmm, dilemma here.
1. I think a social safety net or welfare has its place. Is isn’t always run appropriately but we should take care of each other in hard times...temporarily. I’m ok with some of my hard earned tax money paying for it.
2. My abortion stance is the same as Trump.
3. I believe under Bill Clinton’s watch was the last time we had a deficit surplus. We will never be there again with out appropriate tax structure.
4. I support many Environmenal regulations because of my values. Most of the regulations were passed by a conservative president in the 70s. We still were an economic powerhouse country in spite of the progressive environmental regulations. We know by our own history that economic progress and environmental regulations are not mutually exclusive.
5. I think government should stay out of our bedrooms. My son is gay and he should be able to legally marry.
6. Antifa is not supported by me or the Democrat party no more than republicans support white supremacists.
7. I support the protests (not looting) and the police. So does most Americans and democrats.
You make a lot of assumptions about me because I’m liberal. You have to know that generalization never hold water and people don’t fit into your neat little boxes. Sorry if that scares you.
Lastly, I’m a life long bowhunter and love being in the woods. I’m not your enemy.
At last count, there were seventeen discrete Bowsite topics. I'd say its vastly bowhunting. And it's not "ours". It's Pat's. If he and the mods are letting it stand, than so be it. Check out the other 17 topics.
I think your searching for right and wrong and I’m looking for understanding. We are just too far apart but we realize we both share bowhunting. Chill with the labels and name calling. I promise it doesn’t have the effect you desire.
Other than that, the picture is pretty accurate.
And yet you feel the need to comment (again) on a thread you insinuate to be detrimental to the Bowsite. As for the term "our" bowhunting site..... See, words.....well they mean things...
Kinda like somebody finding a Big Un's magazine on somebodies coffee table and complaining about how could someone publish such a thing, this is awful..... as they riffle through and can't put it down..... =D
"no you hang up"
"you go first..hang up"
"OK on the count of 3 1...2...3..."
I had conversations like this in 10th grade on a paty line with my girlfriend
no one is changing their minds
A SIMPLE POST THAT HAS TURNED INTO SUCH A PATHETIC POST !
With all of the name calling, inaccuracies, labeling of folks and just plain disgust of one another is just plain disgusting !
PAT, I had more respect for you and bowsite. I am surprised you have allowed this to remain up regardless of personal politics !
Don Harris
If not, then his VP pick becomes the real election choice... and Biden has some real losers in line as he panders to the radical left.
And I will always choose national security over open borders, capitalism over socialism, law & order over anarchy, the 2nd Amendment over gun control, and America first over the globalist agenda.
If it's so upsetting.... why keep coming back and reading it? And posting another complaint? Just move along and clic on something else..... nothing to see here..... move along.....
I don't have the metrics but I'd bet offhand these threads currently have the highest clics by FAR. Unless you think it REALLY matters what broadhead to shoot an elk with..... or better yet, what camo is best when sitting in a tree waiting for a deer to walk by.....
Not paying any attention to politics, (ideologies actually) in a time where hunting is clearly and constantly under attack is dangerous..... And YES, nearly 100% all from the left, INARGUABLY from the left no matter what those who defend it say. Facts are facts, what your wife or girlfriend tell you you should believe don't change facts, that's where the attacks on hunting are coming from. Those who wish to ignore such things will soon enough have no reason to visit Bowsite any longer. Those left in power due to apathy from hunters might let you shoot targets and dress up for LARP events, but kill something with a sharp stick???
Those pushing a leftist agenda, from a hunting site no less.... will tell you there's nothing going on here, pay it no attention and look the other way.... and certainly don't work up any enthusiasm in opposition..... stay calm as we strip away your freedoms and rights.... sit down and shut up.... it's for your own good don'cha know....
Those who think hunting and politics currently have no place together have their heads........ um, lets just say, in the sand. Being Karen's at heart, these people won't stop, they won't voluntarily leave you alone, they HAVE to have control. They must be MADE to leave you alone and the only legal way to do that is to elect those who will enforce your rights and freedoms, not kneel and sell them out to some special interest group with a catchy name in an effort to gain their favor with the stongest Virtue Signalling game.....
Need a safe place yet?!? :-)
Joe Biden's mind is a like a web browser. 19 tabs are open, 17 are frozen and he has no idea where the music is coming from.
This is a personal problem.
"" I don't care about the bedroom as long as I don't have to hear about it.""
Exactly.
WELL PUT! AGREE 100%
LEFT = AGAINST individual rights
I know which side I am on!
We don't all have to agree, nor should we. Our government should be Pro American. And so should our people. Individual liberty, folks. I'll keep mine, you keep yours. Worked pretty good for 250 years. Stop telling me what I have to believe and I won't force my opinions on you......
Oh and the issue about his son in Ukraine.. Then there was the truck driver and his family Joe tried destroy due to an accident where the trucker was not at fault. The sexual assault claims, inappropriate touching..
Know why I am so pissed at the Dems? cause I used to be one.
There one thing I'm sure of is that career politicians are not good for a Democracy. Three terms and kick thier butts out and make them get a real job. Kick the lobbyists out of Washington and get people in offices who are more loyal to the people and the Constitution and less loyal to their political parties.
Me, “I’m a life long moderate conservative, can’t stand Hillary and there’s no way I’ll vote for her but I’m not sure I can vote for Trump either because he acts like such an idiot sometimes....”
Her response, “Well since he’s an egotistical narcissist you know he’ll do a good job.”
I WAS a registered Republican my entire voting life - until a couple of weeks ago when I changed to Independent. I voted for the Republican candidate in every national election until Trump. The Republican Party I knew is GONE. Every responsible, ethical, moral, TRUE Republican has either left in frustration, been forced out, or fired if not an elected position. The only ones left are ass-kissers. Trump was, and is, unqualified, unsuitable, and incompetent. His ONLY qualification was, he ran AS a Republican. That simply is not enough for me. His only concern has always been and always will be for HIMSELF. He spent his entire life promoting Trump; financially and to feed his ego. He is using the Presidency to the same end.
Let's review his party affiliation over the years.
Until he was 41 years old in 1987 - Democrat.
1987 - 1999 - Republican.
1999 - 2001 - Reform.
2001 - 2009 - Democrat.
2009 - 2011 - Republican.
2011 - 2012 Independent.
2012 - present Republican.
Does that look like someone with strong convictions or someone looking for the best deal?
Other history: Proud draft dodger. Every time I see one of you thanking a vet for their service and yet supporting Trump, it rings pretty hollow to me.
Bragged about grabbing women by...(I'm sure you've heard it).
Has said many times about others "if you're hiding something you must be guilty of something". I'll take him at his word. Let's see HIS tax returns! As well as other documents he keeps trying to suppress.
His playboy lifestyle has cost the taxpayers more than any other modern-day President with much of that money going to HIS properties.
I fully understand not wanting to support or vote for a Democrat, but that's not the same as supporting an absolute pig of a man that has never done anything for anyone but himself. His motives are and always will be for his own self interest. He's using "Republicans", or maybe just anti-Democrats, to enrich himself, and amazingly, with some success. I hope, and it appears that maybe, the country is waking up.
I also know that all of this will fall on deaf ears on this site. It's obvious you're all committed.
There are millions of smart, skilled, decent, upstanding people in America who have the correct views. Hopefully I will have an opportunity to vote for one someday in the general election without that vote being just a statement or possibly benefiting the worst candidate.
My eyes are wide open.
Do I support Trump? That depends. Do I want him dating my sister or teaching my kids about morality, manners and ethics? No. As a firewall against where the left and the establishment in DC is taking us? Yes.
The Democrats have already shown where they will take this country:
1. Eliminate the Second Amendment 2. Stack the Supreme Court 3. Remove American history 4. Eliminate legal immigration with an open border policy 5. Make the working American taxpayer to pay for benefits for those who will not or cannot contribute to the country 6. Force demonstrably failed socialistic policies upon the American citizen (health care, "free" everything 7. Support radical groups that openly and wantedly break civil law...riot, burn private property, loot. 8. Invalidate all elections via ballot harvesting, no need for ID, mail in ballots, etc.
Were not a bunch of you saying the exact same thing prior to Obama being elected? And then the people voted for Trump and reversed course. I still have faith in Americans, mostly.
Ziek......you have me curious. Aside from the thinking Prez Trump is a Type A person and sends too many tweeties, what policy or action has he taken you disagree with? Go back over the last 3.5 years and look at every decision or policy he did or signed.
IMO that is a valid point I don't think has been touched on yet. Clearly the Dems, left-wing types and their PR agencies in the media dislike Prez Trump. You also have to add the old guard, establishment Repub types also dislike Prez Trump......George Conway (Kellie Ann's hubby for the moment), Bill Krystal, McCain's and Bush's come to mind. One thing about Prez Trump that gets him into trouble, maybe a good kind of trouble, is he is not PC. IMO he should drop the name calling shtick. It may play in NY and Jersey but it does not play well the 2nd time around. Don't get into tweetie arguments over the small stuff. Let the minions take care of that. Save your retorts for the camera where it has more impact. I think he would do himself well and score alot of points if he would look into the camera with a straight up face. Tell the folks that he fights like he does because the country has been good to him and alot of people. He should say he loves the country very much. He will continue to fight hard for the country and the folks....even if it is not always popular at the moment.
I think he has a good record to advertise for the 3.5 or so years he's been in office. If the House...and the Senate leadership to a degree, would have worked with him instead of running a policy of obstruction and trumped up impeachment charges at every turn, I think alot more good things could have taken place for everyone. Or at the least the dialogue and framework could have been set in place to make more positive things happen within the House and Senate.
Tax break for the richest people who need it least? Kissing up to third-rate dictators who should properly be addressed by low-level ambassadors and not the President? Building a 'wall' that stops NO immigrants? Naming religious extremists to the high court system? Encouraging neo-nazis to crawl out from under their rock? Sending his son-in-law to fix the Middle East? 100,000 dead from Covid-19? (And still climbing.) And shall we discuss his 'transparency'? Still waiting to see those tax returns. If this is your idea of a 'quality' presidency you have low standards!
If the tax breaks had only been for that demographic you’d have a valid point and one I’d wholeheartedly agree with. When tax breaks are given across the board to all who pay federal income tax that’s not the case and to the point, it’s called “fairness”. Lest you be unfamiliar with the term it’s being equitable in your actions in principle. Did the rich get more in terms of actual dollars? Of course, but that’s a function of income and not bias; moreover, one needs to consider the tax revenues that demographic produces; your conditionality (“need it least”) does not reflect any consideration of what they pay and only conveys resentment over what they earn and attempts to justify it, not by disparity of relief but simply on an arbitrary standard of “need.” Food for thought; do we “need” the 2nd Amendment to live? The 1st? No, but let me know when you decide enumerated rights should be judged by the same metric.
Kissing up to third-rate dictators who should properly be addressed by low-level ambassadors and not the President?
Provide specifics and I’ll be happy to consider the merits of your case; FYI, flinging accusations without supporting examples is not how one posits a point deserving of consideration.
Building a 'wall' that stops NO immigrants?
Again, accusations without proof are as useful as a sailboat without a sail; do you have confirmed proof that not a single illegal immigrant has been stopped? (That was a rhetorical question, the answer is plainly visible to even Stevie Wonder.) Additionally, you may want to change your query to reflect the fact that it is illegal immigrants we want to prevent from entering the country; legal immigrants continue to be welcome.
Naming religious extremists to the high court system?
You do like indulging in hyperbole, don’t you? First, define “religious extremist”; is it someone who believes in the sanctity of life and thinks the unborn deserve protection? How many jihadists have been appointed to the bench? How many who advocating the stoning of adulterers? How many who believe in the inferiority of women?
Encouraging neo-nazis to crawl out from under their rock?
Again, a charge absent supporting evidence (hint: opinion while your right is does not constitute corroboration.) You may want to read the full context of his remarks post-Charlottesville and not the selectively edited cliff-notes version disseminated by the MSM. Contrast those remarks with those of his predecessor in the aftermaths of Henry Louis Gates, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown for example.
Sending his son-in-law to fix the Middle East?
Perhaps someone who is Jewish might have a frame of reference for the issues there? When we exclude qualified people on the basis of relations we’re not being proper, we’re allowing inherent bias to cloud our judgement.
100,000 dead from Covid-19? (And still climbing.)
Many of your points appear to arise not from factual evidence but personal animus; this one appears to arise from a bad juxtaposition of intellectual laziness and factual ignorance. If I were into public humiliation I’d post the actual timeline of events, actions and contrast some realities that have been significantly improved on. I’ll abstain for now in the faint hope you might actually decide to research the topic yourself and address your ignorance on the subject. Who know, miracles do happen…..ooops, I may now be a “religious extremist” as I’ve clearly indicated a belief in miracles……oh well……
And shall we discuss his 'transparency'? Still waiting to see those tax returns.
Sure, but let's first address your usage of a conjunction to begin a sentence.....just kidding, the grammar police have been de-funded....
Thank-you for offering an unquestionably valid point after subjecting us to an Op-Ed post that anyone could see in a microsecond at DK, DU or some other far-left blog. For a second I wondered if you were by nature unimaginative or if you really had a predilection for regurgitation.
If you promise to do something it is incumbent upon you to follow through; if he didn’t want to release his tax records, that’s his right (there is no legal requirement to do so) he should have simply said so.
If this is your idea of a 'quality' presidency you have low standards!
If you’d posted actual, corroborated facts we could consider that statement; absent any I see no reason to. Further, I suspect you are conflating the character of the man with the results the man has achieved. Many who have argued that his presidency has been a success have done so on the sole basis of achievements; by this metric (as other Presidencies have been measured) the facts support the quality of the term to date.
If you feel you have a case, by all means make it and then we can have a worthwhile discussion. If you want to post a screed to vent your spleen that’s your right and I support that; I will pay it no mind however as, quite frankly, I’ve got far better things to do.
LMAO! It took you 2000 words to get there ;-)
We might be witnessing that now and just not totally recognize it. I have long believed it is not white privilege that people are waging war against, but economic privilege. Recent events like the Floyd homicide are just the trigger.
Let's start with the economy, even before the pandemic. It's really easy to live high on the hog if you have NO fiscal responsibility, and you gut all the agencies that have been established with good reason, to safeguard our safety and the environment. While most of us benefitted from a robust economy, his policies increased the divide between the wealthiest and the rest of us. It's interesting that I'm more concerned about this than most of you. I'm getting up there in years and don't have any kids that will have to pay the bill for his largess. The Republican Party was the Party of fiscal responsible that I supported.
He has the worst environmental record of any modern President. That's also interesting that a bunch of hunters don't seem to give a rat's ass about the environment when that is the MOST critical aspect of us being able to hunt, or even to be able to live on this planet.
He accepts, tacitly approves of, or outright supports (as long as they support him) groups that promote bigotry, and racism. They have their First Amendment rights, but only deserve outright condemnation from responsible people in return.
I could go on, but I have better things to do. I will finish with a few specifics by answering the following quote from a previous post.
"How many who believe in the inferiority of women?"
Everybody that doesn't think a woman has autonomy over their own body. It's amazing to me that this is even an issue, since other laws have already been established to address identical conflicts. First, only a real person has rights and privileges. But for the sake of argument, let's say a fetus has rights and privileges. So if I need a kidney, and you have one that will save my life, I can demand that you give me one? Does my right to life trump your right to sovereignty over your own body. I can't even force you to do something as minor as give me a blood transfusion. But you think that a woman should be subservient to a fetus? I suspect that point of view is spawned in religious beliefs. Which brings me to my last point.
Religion should NOT be used as a governing body in a free society. I don't care if it's a Caliphate, or based on Christianity.
But maybe that fetus will come to term and be born a healthy boy...that later decides it wants to be a girl. Then what? ;-)
But maybe you a correct that I'm no longer a good fit as a Republican. The Republican Party has changed drastically in many important ways since Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. It has become an arm of big business and the church, with strong racist leanings. That's why I re-registered as an Independent. I can then at least choose which primary to vote in (although that didn't matter the last time around). Because that is the main issue here. Trump should have NEVER gotten as far as he did to begin with.
I didn't consider your post as being "a pecker" but would beg to differ on providing no facts; I alluded to the reality that the tax breaks were applied to all who paid income tax; that is a fact and contradicts Dana's "tax breaks for the rich" nonsense.
Each succeeding point was nothing other than opinion masquerading as fact; it is incumbent upon the poster to prove there is more than mere opinion and not me to provide him the evidence to make his case. I also alluded to at least a couple of options to research and arrive at facts that would shred much of his supposition.
I can only speak for myself but as a rule I don't do other people's homework for them; as I said to him, if you have a case, make it.
Ziek,
You cast a false dichotomy that if one is pro-life they are anti-woman; frankly, I'd expect that argument from a liberal, not you. Being pro-life does not equate to a unilateral declaration that a woman does not have autonomy over her body but rather that she does not have autonomy over the life of her unborn child, with the exception being a compelling medical reason, cases of rape or incest. If you research the statistics on abortion (and you can even find these at Planned Parenthood) you'll find that about 90% of abortions are performed as a matter of convenience, not the conditions referenced.
Now if you can provide examples of rulings that are contrary to the Constitution based solely on religious views you might have an argument worth making.
The rest of your attempts at a reasoned argument fall woefully flat; the kidney analogy is poor at best and with all candor, it's asinine.
Sorry but I won't swallow your straw-man about "a woman being subservient to her fetus"; either form a rational counter or admit you have nothing other than your personal belief. You are of course entitled to the latter but the former is a poor substitute for a factual, well-reasoned counter.
Lastly, I don't presume to impose my religious beliefs on anyone; not toeing the line on a poorly formed, morally bankrupt position isn't forcing anything on anyone other than pointing to a blatant hypocrisy in plain English.
Is he gonna get your pity vote? Can't imagine he'll get many creeped out votes. Or your "I hate America almost as much as I do Trump" vote? Biden is the poster child of the entrenched Swamp. Never held an honest job in his life. And other than his gift for hanging out with the right people and sniffin' hair, has accomplished NOTHING in his last 100 years or so.... Nothing. Crime reform? Nope, that was Trump. Trade reform? Nope,Trump again. Work on getting us untangled from the middle east? (Biden paid Iran BILLIONS in cash on pallets in the dark of night, only to see that money prop up and fund yet more terrorism..... who was that again, been so long I kinda forgot? Oh yeah, ISIS, Obama/Biden's JV team....) Nope, sorry, Trump again. Illegal Immigration? Economy? HAHAHAHAHA.... oh my, heheheh.... you guys are too much.....
Trump on the environment? You mean slapping down the Green New Deal the democrats want? Good for him. In fact you want to talk Green New Deal and what's in it and it's economic effects.... by all means. Lets talk. THAT is the democrats.
And let us not forget, while the country shut down and stimulus was being hammered out to try and help the working folks..... Pelosi and the dems were trying to kill it by tacking on airline emission standards, voter ID laws and alternative energy mandates and other crap while folks were faced with losing all they had. THAT is the face of the democratic party. Botox and all. Good grief, you folks have no shame at all..... none. Russia anyone? Any other fake news you want to make up? More Americans you want to use the FBI or the IRS to dig up any dirt on? Biden's your guy then.... it's what he does. Unmask anybody? Logan Act? Might have to look up that one, it's from 1799 and has NEVER been used, on anyone.... up until now on General Flynn.... Biden's idea. 100%
Creepy Uncle Joe..... he's gonna have to come out of the basement at some point and try to, well.... finish a coherent sentence or something. This isn't some blank slate you can make appear how you want.... he has a LONG track record. And a poor one. Everything he says he wants to do..... why didn't he do it before when he held office? Too busy literally making his family millionaires?
Trump has his personality disorders.... mostly doesn't put up with anyone's crap from all I can see. That seem to upset some, mostly those who's crap it is being asked to put up with.... huh, go figure.... But he's here for America and Americans. Not to lie, cheat and steal and screw them over for their Globalist causes.
Burn the flag, kneel on it, wizz on it, topple monuments, burn down peoples personal property and destroy small business (seems they didn't set fire to many multi-national corporations.....) that is the face of the democrats right now. That is what they are hanging their hat on. Support by omission if nothing else. Don't have the spine to come out against the violence, the mob rule. (or as they like to put it, Summer of Love....) An oath to protect and keep their cities safe.... out the window. Silence in the face of lawlessness is deafening.
Pretty soon.... this won't be about Trump at all. Biden, he might pull in some pity votes..... but just wait till you guys see your boy, the guy YOU want to run the country, lest you forget what this is all about... in all his glory.... I can hardly wait.... this is gonna be fun....
Why do you suppose that is?? Shall we compare convictions for recent election fraud - number of Dems vs Republicans???
How anyone can vote Dem. right now, after watching all the destruction going on in all the big Dem held cities, is beyond me. Why would you support those people that support the destruction of this country? The Dems. are allowing the MOB to rule. Is that what anyone really wants?
I will remember you said that when it happens...
Yeah, because Mitch McConnell would have happily signed on to *that*. LOL!!!
Has any Dem or any other politician ever done what he had promised to do?
Is he perfect or without flaws, NO. But who among us is?
All this Racial unrest and protesting is not his doing, the haters and Dem's are behind all of it. Why is the media not looking into the hot spots of all this (Dem run Cities and States). Most of it was started by Obummer, for sure that is where all the killing and shooting of police officers started.
Trump has my vote same as 2016.
How delightfully unprovable. ;-)
Yes, like most of your opening screed; I gave you an opportunity to do so hoping you'd rise to the challenge but expecting you to avoid having to provide proof.
You met my expectations; not sure I'd call it delightful but definitely predictable.
So what’s going on in Seattle sanity?
Is defunding police sanity?
How bout all the black on black violence that happens daily that no Democrat has done anything about and BLM refuses to even acknowledge?
Rolling back all the tax breaks and upping corporate taxes so high insuring no investment in American business is sane?
Eliminating the oil and gas industry and all the jobs that go with it in favor of a green new deal is sane?
What part of raw sewage and needles flowing in gutters sounds like sane policy?
Annony Mouse's Link
All this and not one person has (considering the riots, looting, property destruction, etc. of the past several weeks) addressed the elephant donkey in the room.
Taking lead from ANTIFA/BLM in destroying monuments, the Pelosi Pogrom to remove paintings and statuary from the halls of government and support for erasing our history, when will the Democrat Party become truly "woke" and change their name considering the party's historic record of racism? Since they seem to accept the premise that (for example) the deeds of Christopher Columbus 400 years ago merits erasure from our history, should not they be constant and do a Dixie Chicks and tear down their own party...perhaps to rebrand itself as the Social Communist Venezuela Party?
Carp all you want about Trump, but the true source of racism seen in this country is embedded in the Democrat Party. Their record has been to say words, but act to keep the blacks on the voter plantation.
From link:
The resolution states Connecticut Republicans “deem it necessary that the Democratic Party change its name due to the Party’s long tragic legacy denying Americans basic human rights,” including:
* Democrats blocked the first attempt to ratify the 13th Amendment in 1863
*Democrats unanimously voted against the 14th Amendment giving former slaves citizenship
* Democrats unanimously voted against the 15th Amendment giving former slaves the right to vote
* Democrats instituted Jim Crow laws across Democrat led states, preventing African Americans the right to vote.
*Democrats held the longest filibuster in U.S Senate history to block the civil rights act 1957
“Democratic Parties around the country have been stripping buildings, monuments, and pictures from government halls, yet the atrocities rest with the Democratic Party as a whole,” Romano said. “To kill the serpent you need to strike at the head.”
Good post Annony mouse.
A moderate, sometimes right-leaning Dem state governor like Joe Manchin might be a better alternative than some Independent or a Socialist.
This was widely publicised during the formation of their caliphate in Syria. Why do you think Al'Queda took down the twin towers? It was the skyline of America known around the world... erased.
Remember the history, such as Obama and Bill Ayres (weatherman terrorist) who have shared interests in Chicago. Remember Bill Clinton granting clemency to members of the FALN terrorist group.
The Democrats aren't necessarily terrorists... but they run in the same circles and follow the same ideology and pursue similar methods to force their goals on everyone else. Wait... maybe they are?? :-)
The OP was do you support Trump, not are you a Republican or Democrat. I WAS a registered Republican my entire voting life - until a couple of weeks ago when I changed to Independent. I voted for the Republican candidate in every national election until Trump. The Republican Party I knew is GONE. Every responsible, ethical, moral, TRUE Republican has either left in frustration, been forced out, or fired if not an elected position. The only ones left are ass-kissers. Trump was, and is, unqualified, unsuitable, and incompetent. His ONLY qualification was, he ran AS a Republican. That simply is not enough for me. His only concern has always been and always will be for HIMSELF. He spent his entire life promoting Trump; financially and to feed his ego. He is using the Presidency to the same end.
Let's review his party affiliation over the years.
Until he was 41 years old in 1987 - Democrat.
1987 - 1999 - Republican.
1999 - 2001 - Reform.
2001 - 2009 - Democrat.
2009 - 2011 - Republican.
2011 - 2012 Independent.
2012 - present Republican.
Does that look like someone with strong convictions or someone looking for the best deal?
Other history: Proud draft dodger. Every time I see one of you thanking a vet for their service and yet supporting Trump, it rings pretty hollow to me.
Bragged about grabbing women by...(I'm sure you've heard it).
Has said many times about others "if you're hiding something you must be guilty of something". I'll take him at his word. Let's see HIS tax returns! As well as other documents he keeps trying to suppress.
His playboy lifestyle has cost the taxpayers more than any other modern-day President with much of that money going to HIS properties.
I fully understand not wanting to support or vote for a Democrat, but that's not the same as supporting an absolute pig of a man that has never done anything for anyone but himself. His motives are and always will be for his own self interest. He's using "Republicans", or maybe just anti-Democrats, to enrich himself, and amazingly, with some success. I hope, and it appears that maybe, the country is waking up.
I also know that all of this will fall on deaf ears on this site. It's obvious you're all committed.
Mike, I'm in full agreement with you. I changed from lifelong Republican to Independent in January because I cannot support what the Republican party has become, and therefore will not affiliate with that party or any other. Trump gets all the blame because he is a pig; even his defenders can agree on that - why so many look past that point is beyond me.
The Republican party lost me when every elected Republican Senator and Representative lost their own voice. There is no independent thinking. The very best you get from any of them is to stand in silence. And frankly that is the fundamental problem with all politics in Washington, they are there, not to serve the people but to serve themselves. Every last one of them! They have to maintain there status because it pays the bills. Results are a thing of the past. They suck out the power tit so they keep their slice of the pie. It is absolutely disgusting!
The Democrats have done this for years, I was hoping the Republicans had character and conviction, but they don't either.
New Rules - force this horrible two party system to work together or do nothing. If we have a Democrat in the White House, then I want a Republican Senate. I never want to see one party rule - regardless of the party - it is way too dangerous because none of them can be trusted.
It is such a shame - 17 Republican candidates ran for the nomination in 2016, and Trump comes out on top - if that doesn't tell you something about the piss poor elected officials from across this country I don't know what does.
As Glunt said, I hope someday I have the opportunity to vote for a candidate with character, morals, vision, and integrity - but that may be a pipe dream until we put term limits on every elected position. Get them in try them out and get them out for the next one.
Turn about is fair play.
Donald Trump is about as 'conservative' as Jimmy Carter. Oh, wait, Carter served honorably in the armed forces. As for what passes as 'conservatism' these days...
I get an actual kick out of Wayne Lapierre claiming that Biden will destroy the 2nd Amendment while everyone else is claiming that 'Sleepy Joe' won't get anything done at all. Which is it? ('Both' is not a valid answer, sorry.)
All this phony Russian outrage over an unverified bounty story. What about when WE were supplying stinger missiles for the Afghans to shoot down Russian helicopters and planes. Do you think we played a part in any Russian deaths? That is the way the game is played on the world stage. Put on your camo big boy pants. Covert ops, proxy wars, etc.
Do you have any examples of the Obama/Biden administration standing tall against Russian aggression? How about when Obama gave away out US Missile shield over Europe to Putin for nothing in return? Or when the Dems let Russia gain an eternal foothold and military base in Syria? Ever hear of place called Crimea that the Ukranians used to think belonged to them??
Talking about bounties on US Soldiers??!!? How about the Iranian's making IED bombs for the Iraqi rebels to blow up American soldiers. All before Obama sent them a plane load of cash and a promise they could have a nuclear warhead in 10 years. Who was it that finally took out the Iranian terror general who commanded the IED attacks against Americans?? LOL
Such absolute garbage being sold by the leftist libs when they want to pretend to have military leadership and backbone. Bah!!!
This is absolutely laughable. You can't call putting Scott Pruitt with his record as head of the EPA a good idea. That guy was anti-environment and an idiot. Trump has tried to defang or eliminate almost every major foundational environmental law or act (ESA, CWA, CAA, NEPA) passed by REPUBLICANS in the 1970s. All with executive orders. I thought you all hated presidents that try to legislate from the oval office. I thought it was congress that passed laws. Pretty hypocritical.
Trump is the worst president in my lifetime when it comes to environmental and natural resource protection. He actually said that wind turbines cause cancer. What a complete buffoon.
Some of you "know" me from the old CF or other political/cultural threads, you know I view myself as a centrist, and I know most of you view me as so far left that Bernie is to my right ha ha ha! I note that because adding any views I have to this discussion of the current president wouldn't be useful to any of us, so I dont see the point of adding any ideas.
But I'm very curious. Really. What do you all believe would be great for Trump to do from 2020-24? What would be the best things he could do. The court's I'm sure are a no brainer. But what do you really want to see happen?
Oh boo hoo! He said that...LOL
that really hurt the enviro. doesn't it.
Shall we play the game who said what and when, and see how many presidents we can show that have said flat out dumb stuff in the past? Could maybe start with Obammy and his "57 states" comment? Is that what makes or breaks a great president in your eyes? Or one that you will or won't vote for?
Will- I would like to see Trump push term limits if he wins in 2020. It was part of his campaign platform in 2016. I agree with him on term limits. Also, eliminate ex-senators/representatives and immediately family from being lobbyist. Oh, also reverse “citizens united.”
All this after being made FOOLS with a two and half year and multi million dollar investigation created by Hillary (using a Russian dossier, can't make this stuff up if you tried....) to be applied by a cabal of deep state operatives, several of who not only were fired but should be spending some time in jail for their actions. An investigation created from NOTHING but animus... that literally found nothing. They STILL harp on it..... "But RUSSIA!" SMH... sad
Comes down to two reasons why...
One, a serious lack of self awareness and remorse for being..... "disingenuous" lets say,..... and chronically wrong. Time, after time, after time..... truly, literally, fake news. Justifying it all for 'the cause". Not even a "my bad..." before moving on to the next BS lie.
Two, they have nothing else. Nothing. Nothing productive. Nothing that will help hard working Americans do what they need to get done. Everything they have from top to bottom is destruction. NO plans to fix or improve. Just... nothing. In fact any talks or plans to improve are actually and openly opposed, as it may make Orange Man look good. Screw what that does to Americans. Currently it's just protest, eliminate police, cancel culture, rioting, burning, looting, ANTIFA and CHAZ..... desperate attempts to eliminate history so they can rewrite it. Most clearly with no knowledge of history as much of what they want to destroy is history they would give a stamp of approval to. IF they had a clue as to what it is they were doing. But they don't. Stupid is as stupid does.
And nobody in these dem run cities seems to have the spine or the will to protect their citizens, fix things or make them stop, much less address the real issues and problems. Go talk to black communities in Chitcago that will be around or about the neighborhoods where an estimated 100 or so will be shot this weekend (in a city with the toughest DEMOCRATIC gun laws in the US) Ask THEM if they want the police eliminated.... not the white elitists calling for it (who just happen to have hired private security) You people are literally insane. And it seems your common theme....
Right now it's just destroy everything you can get your hands on. Lovely plan these dems have..... real positive message... but when your whole message is "Hate America!" (because I guess "America First!" or "Make America Great!" is taken already?), who knows what the hell they are thinking.... but RUSSIA is the whole problem. Good grief... see "self awareness" above.
guess when it's all ya got, um, left.... it's all ya got left....
Please consider I’m no Biden fan as I’m not sure he’s up for the task. It is not a forgone conclusion that I will vote for him. It is forgone that I will not vote for Trump based on his performance, divisiveness, and constant habitual lying . And before KPC joins in here with cut and pasting my words, I understand perfectly the two party system...I just don’t buy into KPCs arrogant BS. It’s a damn democracy first. I’ll vote for whom ever I wish. Screw the parties if they can’t put a sane rational adult up as a candidate.
It's your party, you can cry if you want to.... cry if you want to....cry if your want to...,
- Constitutional Republic
- Democratic Republic
- Federal Republic
- Constitutional Representative Democracy
For KS.......Prez Trump's views on gay marriage are different than mine. He has said there are more important things to do than get involved in gay marriage issues. It sounds like making any changes to that is low on his list...if it is even on his list. He has come out against taxpayer dollars being used for sex change operations in the military. I would agree with him on that one.
I will take a shot at it, though I am not speaking for Ryan.
I posted this above already...There is a growing divide of either real or perceived inequity in both income and wealth in America. Right or wrong, Republicans are receiving most of the blame for the inequity. The abyss grew wider during the Covid crisis, as we saw folks who had enough liquid wealth to take advantage of a gyrating stock market, one even posting here he did just that.
That inequality is the fuel load for much of the tensions in our country today. Trump's "style" and ability to take advantage of business opportunities, even while in the WH, is an agitation for many.
You most likely will counter with the wealthy took the risks and anyone could have done so, yada, yada, yada...And I agree. So let's save that debate. It doesn't matter how we arrived where we are at today, the burner has been turned up to high on the bitterness people feel for having been, in their minds, left behind or even taken advantage of by the system. Here is my prediction, it will take long past November to change this perception and cool the tempers boiling over. Trump will not be re-elected barring an extreme extraneous event that might be a game changer, and I don't see that happening. His credibility, again deserved or not, is in a pit that's unrecoverable.
Conservatives are being blamed for this, and that trumps (small 't', not our president) all of the other glorious accomplishments in your mind that you have pointed out.
You've brought out some good points for discussion, points that don't have anything remotely approaching discussion, just 180 degree poles of demagoguery.
You correctly point to a growing disparity in income and wealth in America and the perception that there is an inequity there; this begs the obvious question or questions, beginning with why does this disparity exist and by what metric is there an inequity?
On the first question in any fair-market capitalistic economy the opportunity to achieve wealth is there for the taking; while it's true that not everyone will make it it's also true than anyone can make it. That would make the framework equitable by definition; absent any unfair advantage to a section of the population we all begin at the same point in theory. We can point to those who inherit wealth or position and claim this constitutes inequity but this in inaccurate; only if the initial accumulation was unfair with the subsequent passage be likewise. The child of a millionaire is not too blame for his inherited wealth anymore than the child of a pauper is to blame for his inherited poverty.
Now, the second question of perception of inequity; who has fostered this narrative? Certainly not the adherents of the principle of equal opportunity as codified in law; no, the perception has been created and nurtured at every opportunity by those that believe it should be equality of outcomes, and as not codified in law that outcome should be guaranteed either by virtue of newer, "fairer" laws of by judicial fiat when in the minority.
You are dead-on point that the Republicans get the blame for this disparity and they could blame the opposition party and while true to the extent of provable misrepresentations the reality is they haven't done anything close to a good job of defining their position and making their case on the basis of demonstrably provable economic realities. In layman's terms they've been complete pussies about fighting back every specious charge and every economically illiterate talking point they get consistently pummeled with.
You are again in the 10-ring with this inequality stoking the fires smoldering today; one party has done a better job and painting the other into a corner and as long as that party is content to cower expect the flames to get hotter.
Trump's style will never be confused with that of an Emily Post graduate; in a perfect world I think we'd all prefer poise and polish and soaring oratory that inspired. As we don't live in that world I'll accept the warts provided the results warrant it; pre-COVID by and large they did, especially in the minority community; those economic gains didn't happen when we had gentility and soaring oratory with his predecessor but they did happen over the past 3 1/2 years.
Does Trump deserve another 4 years? I'd say he does absent a better alternative. If anyone doubted the level of hatred for him one need look no further than the number of Americans on record as declaring they intend to vote for a candidate so obviously of diminished mental capacity. When I consider this I find it laughable that many of those people speak of their fear for this country if we have 4 more years of Donald Trump; you could probably find more logical reasoning in a ward full of flat-line EEG's.
Can he win? Absolutely; it's all well and good to declare your intention to vote for Biden and I know some of those will regardless of how badly he performs in the debates; for those presently on full boil but with rationality on their side those debates will throw glaciers of ice on their fires and calm reason will prevail.
Ben Franklin probably had no clue as to just how prescient he was when that woman questioned him in Philadelphia, asking "What have you given us?" and he replied, "a Republic, if you can keep it."
I answered Trax’s question, so it was relevant IMO. And, I did not want to get into another debate that goes no where. We can discuss the reasons why the perceptions laid out may exist, but that was not my point. Simply, those perceptions exist and no amount of well constructed prose on sites like this will move those perceptions one iota before November.
Remember, last election I called it very early that Cruz would not be the R nominee and Hillary would not be President. The Iowa Electronic Markets have a gap that I don’t believe has ever been closed before, and the gap is widening. Stick a fork in it, he’s done.
Mike,
I know you are at least ten times brighter than me, so I feel a little foolish pointing out the subjectivity of these words, especially “fair”. Subjectivity is a lousy foundation to construct an argument on.
JL's Link
"Currently, the market has former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and businessman Donald Trump earning their party’s nominations, and the winner-take-all market predicts a Democrat winning the presidential election."
It takes a little time to really familiarize yourself with IEM. They changed their prediction on 2016 with zero time to spare. They being the actual betters.
Yes, a contested Dem convention is a strong possibility based on Joe's deterioration. They are probably a lot of the reason why the rumor about Hillary is gaining traction.
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
If people have to pay more for a mortgage, it negatively effects their buying power on all other goods and marginally leaves less for savings...which has an impact on wealth they will to their heirs.
I get so tired of hearing this trickledown BS while the income inequality gap keeps growing. But right wing nuts have so weaponized social programs and bottom up assistance as “socialism” Republicans don’t dare try to do thing that may really elevate income status. But praise Trump when the get their Trump checks.
I think your response to Frank is the Republicans talking point on the subject that goes in circles. The “be happy with crumbs” and “just work harder” falls on deaf ears when your working 40 hours a week at $7.25/hour with two kids.
Rocky, the last thing I did before coming here to post this was to encourage, via email, an excellent student I have had for two semesters to continue reconsidering her questioning whether she wants to continue pursuing an education degree to be a elementary teacher. In writing, I said I felt she had great talent that would be wasted in such a career and she would most likely find greater economic prosperity and higher personal satisfaction in the career she is now looking at. For years I have told kids wanting to be professors to reconsider as technology is going to eliminate most of the positions. Point being, teachers are not some monolithic group that conservatives love to sell out of spite that all NEA political contributions go to Dem pacs. I get it, but talk about sheep following the Daily Wire and Ben Shapiro, that's what I grow tired of.
More on the conservatives dumping people together...if you continue to work for minimum wage you are a lousy employee was suggested above... There are folks who never get above minimum wage because the market determines they are not worth more. Some examples that my life has exposed me to are people who suffer from autism or other mental/physical/emotional challenges. Amazing that people here that want others to think they are so smart just don't get the lack of empathy they continually display by painting with such a broad brush. People are individuals, quit trying to put everyone into neat boxes.
Yes, I do believe our country ought to discuss a "fair living income", how to go about it and have mostly private entities like churches, synagogues, mosques and other civic groups do most of the heavy lifting is a discussion I would love to witness. The conservative based critics who claim that government support programs have eliminated a lot of involvement in churches and other civic minded groups like the Moose etc. have a very valid point in my mind. We need to move away from this. The debate shouldn't be about whether we have an obligation as members of society to each other, but rather how we provide them support and what level is necessary.
Just like I believe the barbaric act of abortion reduces humanity down to nothing more than any other animal, of which I believe God did not intend, we lose a little bit more of the precious difference between the other animals when we categorize all people who need help in the same group as people who refuse to use their God granted talents.
Yes, pick on me for being a teacher. 30 years at a community college though has opened my eyes, not from what colleagues say but from actual dealings with real people. There are many who fight to remain above the water, who try and really have trouble for whatever reason to just survive. I don't know why I was blest/fortunate enough to not face their same challenges. Most of these folks are people who will never have a need to consult a financial planner, read into that that what Kevin and I see are probably totally different samples. But the vast majority of my students are capable and biting at the bit to get more active in responsible positions and lead productive lives.
Good discussion, thanks. Yes, I was triggered:-)
EDIT: Booner, those "losers" are someone's kid and children of Christ.
I don't think it is great at all. Tell me how such a symbolic act will actually improve anyone's situation. It's nothing more than political pandering by an individual who most recognize for his incompetence. The results will be nothing more than fanning the flames. When he gets accused of being anti-American, he deserves it.
Remember, it was the Obama/Biden administration that allowed China to build and fortify a remote island in the South China Sea to claim hundreds of miles of that area as their own.
Have you seen the new Chinese Xian H-20 stealth bomber? An amazing copy of our B2 flying wing. How about the new Chinese J-31 stealth fighter, their exact copy of our F35 fighter. The Chinese are stealing our intellectual property, robbing us blind!! And Joe Biden is completely unaware or in total denial (or in their pocket because of his son?).
China and Russia are now BOTH ahead of the US in hypersonic missile deployment. That also happened during the Obama/Biden years. Are you not paying attention or do you just not care????
When Biden left office, look up how many US fighter planes could no longer even fly. And then tell me again how you could vote for Biden over the mean orange man....
Rocky, I'm not sure I follow you totally. Your comment RE leaders/managers got me thinking though.
Leaders and managers are parts of the same continuum. If you run a business or team, your manager/coach IS a leader. The key thing is that leaders need to serve those they lead. Leaders are NOT focused on being in power, for example. They are focused on empowering others. The best leaders focus on helping others seek and perform their best.
When leaders deflect responsibility for anything bad, while suggesting they are the best at everything simultaneously, literally, by definition, they are not doing a good job leading. They are doing a good job of self promotion, but a poor job of leading.
That latter group is good at generating false hope. They are good at drumming up emotion. But generally are really bad at fostering follow through or long term success. It may come in occasionally and yes, there are always examples to disprove norms... That does not mean extreme's should then be viewed as the norm. For example, a leader performing like that (no responsibility, guru-like, about self power and not the development of those they serve) may have boom bust cycles vs steady progress. Generally that makes it hard for them because no one can be sure of how long either cycle will last, and that instability makes those following them have a hard time sustaining buy in, which over time erodes confidence in the leader.
Getting people fired up and excited is not leadership, it may be guru-ism, it may be a role a leader uses when about to do something hard, but it's not the key tool in the toolbox.
Leader is a role, and a position. Just like manager. In other words, one can be put in the position of leader, but not rise to the role it requires. It's really hard to be a good leader over the long haul. Just like anything, it requires constant work and effort... Learning. Leadership requires a constant willingness to understand ones intuitions are often wrong and the patience/humility to seek more information. Excellent leaders draw on the expertise of those around them and understand that process is vital to the success of the whole the leader is working for as well as the goals the whole is working towards. Leading requires the humility to know one is not an expert in all things, and that they must seek help while empowering those helpers.
Being a good leader is hard. It's heavy with responsibility.
Single best post I have read in a long time, thank you. I could not have written those words, but they sure resonate because you solidified for me what I think but could not articulate.
Also...the old adage is applicable here.....we are all guaranteed for the most part equal opportunities.....no one is guaranteed an equal outcome. We can't mandate a person to take advantage of the opportunities out there....we can only make sure the doors are open to anyone wanting to take that first step. If a person chooses not to walk thru the doors of opportunity when they open....that is their choice and that's ok. However they should not come back later and feign being an aggrieved victim. Poor decision-making on their part does not constitute an emergency on the country's part.
Trax, I don't see how both of those are possible. But we do agree on the rule of law and there should be zero tolerance for violence against people or property and all ordinances must be adhered to. Support Trump 100% on this.
I hope you did not miss a subtle point about generalizations though. Just because there are issues folks disagree with Trump on, don't conclude they are a Marxist, American hating, anarchist etc., etc. Both extreme sides sell the all or nothing, and most just recognize life is a little more complicated than that. You often refer to the simpleton sheep, well it's those same sheep not buying the all or nothing. Trump more than any other current candidate is perceived as the biggest seller of all or nothing, with me or against me. People are starting to see it is divisive, just as they have realized the MSM is corrupt. It's not the media driving the turn away from Trump at this point, it is what Will laid out above.
Rumor is starting to grow that he may drop out, that the polls have him concerned and he does not want to have history say he was defeated. I discount this heavily, but the logic is sound to me. We learn something new about the populace every election, what a great system our Founders created!
Mike in CT's Link
No, I stated there while the is inequality it has nothing to do with a system gamed from the onset to favor one subset of the population over the other. That is simply liberal mythology constructed to divide and preclude actual analysis as to the root cause(s) of the income disparity. As to “fault”; to a degree being in financial disrepair is the fault of a sizeable swath of those in that camp; from poor decisions on a college degree to poor decisions on planning a family and a lifestyle that earnings could not support; those are not a function of government or economic policy; those are life decisions and another pillar of the liberal mythology is that absolution from personal responsibility should be a given as there is the ever-present and convenient “the system” boogeyman to point the accusatory finger at.
”So if you’re born rich or poor it’s not your fault but good luck?”
Simplistic analysis of what I said and more designed to continue argument over discussion. The point was that there is no predetermined condition of “fair” or “unfair” at birth; what follows in either direction is a function of the individual as the framework of American free-market capitalism does provide the opportunity for mobility, either upward or downward. This is touching on that personal responsibility/accountability demon again.
”Republicans have long focused helping corporations and the wealthy. Then when the get an opportunity they give bigger tax breaks for the rich.”
Again, this is an argument built upon a faulty premise; it works only if tax breaks are given conditionally and by class; when applied equally that is the definition of fair. When opportunities arise for expansion of businesses and corporations that creates job opportunities and it supplements future earnings from the millions of Americans who have 401K’s and other retirement funds. Those funds do not grow on their own; responsible fiduciary decisions need to be made to ensure they flourish. When someone can explain the unfairness of the top 1% paying more in taxes than the bottom 90% combined I’ll give an ear to the argument about the unfairness of both the system and tax breaks; until such time it’s a baseless argument if fairness is the true barometer as those screaming the loudest insist it is.
”I know, I know, everyone got a tax break right. The tax breaks unfairly help the wealthiest the most”.
Well that’s a start; acknowledging that everyone got them. Unfortunately you then proceed to undercut yourself with the following sentence in which you deem those unfair; if everyone gets a tax break then no one is excluded from that benefit and it is not unfair. You attempt to rationalize this point by arguing that the wealthiest benefit the most. Let me know when you argue that they bear a disproportionate share of the tax burden as I illustrated above; somehow I don’t see you ever taking up that cause. When the wealthy reinvest the additional revenue there are downstream benefits that know no class boundaries as well. I’ve always loved the inevitable fallback position of “they just stick in the bank” as if the money sits in a vault molding. Banks use that money to write mortgages, small business loans and other forms of investment that benefit a broad swath of citizens.
”I get tired of hearing that there is equal opportunity in America when we stagger the start and add weight around the necks of the blue collar middle class and poorest among us”
I get tired of hearing excuses for failure when the primary actions taken are to extend a hand with a demand to be taken care of. I get tired of simplistic distillations of a complex reality that again, precludes constructive analysis in favor of fractionating the populace. I can share a real world example of someone who graduated with a BS and had twice as much student loan debt as income initially. In the view you seem to be championing that person could content themselves with the “staggered start” and “weight around the neck” meme and commenced with his very own pity party and decrying the unfairness of the system.
Here’s the choice (damn, there’s that word again) that person made; went back to school and got a Master’s Degree and significantly increase his earning power to better support the family he had started. Seeing still greater earning potential that came with a risky career change he opted to take on that risk, and succeeded in the new career still further increasing his earning power to the point where he could afford to send his oldest daughter to a private teacher for flute lessons, his son to baseball camps and his youngest to the Nutmeg School of Ballet. None of that arose from a government program to “level the playing field” and he didn’t rob his neighbor in the form of confiscatory taxes designed to redistribute wealth. He relied on his own initiative, accepted the responsibility for whatever outcome arose and busted his you-know-what to achieve his piece of the American dream.
”Then Republicans try to destroy a public health care option that also help mostly blue collar and low to middle income folks...without a replacement.”
The PPACA was poorly constructed and in my opinion, purposely designed that way. The intended goal was not affordable health care for all under that legislation but rather a necessary prerequisite step towards single payor healthcare that would inevitably be floated as an option to the predetermined and predesigned collapse of that house of cards. As to the lack of replacement that is simply not true.
”I get so tired of hearing this trickledown BS while the income inequality gap keeps growing.”
The concept of broadening the tax base via universal tax cuts is not “trickle down economics” (by the way, this is a Democrat coined term and ironically what they try to argue is more in line with Keynesian economics than what Milton Friedman so eloquently espouses.) Are the top 1% getting richer? Of course, that’s a function of simple math; that however does not constitute and unfair or unjust system and what is unfair and unjust is advocating a punitive approach to take from those who have risked and succeeded to give to those who have not.
”But right wing nuts have so weaponized social programs and bottom up assistance as “socialism” Republicans don’t dare try to do thing that may really elevate income status. But praise Trump when the get their Trump checks.”
I’d have to agree that the debate has been needlessly polarized; as we are a hybrid system with aspects of socialism it’s a poor position to try and defend (any aspect of socialism is evil).
”I think your response to Frank is the Republicans talking point on the subject that goes in circles. The “be happy with crumbs” and “just work harder” falls on deaf ears when your working 40 hours a week at $7.25/hour with two kids.”
I think both you and he missed the point; the following sentence to be blunt doesn’t deserve a reply; a)it’s personally insulting and b)it’s a crutch used to prop up an indefensible argument. We all have choices and we should all be willing to own those choices and whatever outcome arise from them.
KSflatlander's Link
I'm not advocating for equal results but for equal opportunity. The unequal opportunity produces the inequality. I do not see the Trump administration or the currently Republican leadership focusing on leveling the playing field or making the starting line more far. The Trump tax breaks made it worse. After all, Trump started "with a small loan" from his father of $1 million. The most benefit to take advantage of the opportunity should be at the bottom not at the top.
I always laugh when I hear the academia is leftist evil stuff. Education is bad...they will turn you into liberals. As if nobody has a choice (there's that damn word again) to believe what they believe.
By the way, I'm pretty sure evil Marxist socialists will come for your first born when this thread count hits 666.
Great point about education. Traditional college enrollment continues to fall, colleges closing is almost common now. Trade school enrollment OTH is climbing.
Love when folks like to point out challenges already being corrected as if they are the only one smart enough to recognize the issue.
As if most of American's (Left or Right) including myself don't. Your condescension is something to behold.
That's a good point about that wealth gap. It's funny how some states which are very rich have high gaps while some that are poor have relatively low gaps. Quite the complex issue to tackle with a lot of layers. Especially since 18 of the 19 poorest states have R controlled legislatures (both chambers). The 5 richest states have both houses controlled by D's (at least based on the data I just double checked to make sure my memory was correct, in fairness, this may have changed a small amount as my data was from early 19). Yet some of those rich states with D legislatures have high gaps... While very poor states with R legislatures have low gaps.
Some of the states with high gaps, have poor people that are well ahead of the poor people in places with low gaps... So the gap is huge but the poverty less.
This stuff is really complicated. It's clearly not just a politically directed thing, even though I just tried and failed to make it one... It's really based on a whole giant role of issues in any given region. And that reality is way more complex to think about with layers upon layers of sociocultural funkiness making a simplification like political party = local/regional wealth really hard to do.
Poverty? Race? When you see Asian families come to this country from what makes our inner cities look like luxury and in just a single generation or two make leaps and bounds to gain what one may call "American Dream" ..... from nothing.... What does that tell you? That Asians are a superior race? Or they have a culture and work ethic that creates and achieves? Tell people they have to change their habits and culture to succeed and..... you're a racist. Even when it has nothing whatsoever to do with race.
Exhibit A: Nearly all those white liberal ANTIFA pieces or chit rioting across the country come from very wealthy families. NYC mayors and such.....
Morality and a work ethic are far more important IMO. And are two things that are actually denigrated and discouraged in societies where many fail in life. And in many cases trying to "guarantee an outcome" has exactly the opposite effect.
The situation with "the poor" will get no better until the people themselves change and become better. Social constructs of an Entitlement ideology has made things FAR worse.
Maybe the correlation is backwards. The more educated you get then generally you become liberal and open to different cultures and ideas and plights. Sorry, KPCs condescension is rubbing off. My apologies. Disregard.
JL's Link
Alot of studies show this to be true........the full article is at the link.
"In fact, the research is clear on the overwhelming benefits of married parenthood for children, as IFS senior fellow W. Bradford Wilcox pointed out on Twitter in response to DePaulo. He tweeted a quote by Sara McLanahan and Isabel Sawhill from The Future of Children, which states, in part: “most scholars now agree that children raised by two biological parents in a stable marriage do better than children in other family forms across a wide range of outcomes...”
One reason married parenthood is best for children is the stability it provides. “On average, no other relationship delivers the kind of stability kids need like marriage does,” Wilcox explains. “Across the United States and much of Europe, parents who marry before having children are markedly more likely to stay together." By age 12, for example, children in cohabiting families are about twice as likely as those in married parent families to experience a parental breakup.
Marriage also protects children against poverty. While single-mother families are more than five times as likely to experience poverty as married-parent families, single fathers and cohabiting parents are also more likely to live in poverty.
We also know that children are safer in married-parent families. They have a lower risk of being exposed to domestic violence because married women are less likely to experience physical abuse than single or cohabiting women. Likewise, children are at the greatest risk for abuse and neglect when they live with their unmarried mother and her boyfriend.
Finally, marriage is still the best means of binding a father to his children, which is important, as we are continuing to learn more about the significance of the father-child connection. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) explained in a 2016 report:
Fathers do not parent like mothers, nor are they a replacement for mothers when they are not at home; they provide a unique, dynamic, and important contribution to their families and children.
Furthermore, new research has identified a biological consequence of father loss: shortened telomere length, which is linked to adverse health outcomes in adulthood. As study co-author, Daniel Notterman, recently told IFS, the findings show that “a central role for the father is optimal for his child’s well-being.”
Can single parents do a great job raising kids? Of course, but we should acknowledge that children raised outside of marriage face more obstacles, including a higher risk of family instability. We have a responsibility to continue to promote married parenthood as the premier family form for child well-being. Younger generations deserve to hear that, on average, children do best when they are raised by their own mother and father in a stable family—and this stability is more likely to occur in marriage. In my case, I am grateful that the single parent who raised me had the courage to teach me that lesson."
Must explain why AOC, Sanders, Liarwatha and host of others have such a huge following with regards to their student loan forgiveness policies. You know, accumulate $100K plus in debt on a degree that has no usefulness in the real world and expect to have that loan made null and void.
Ryan and Will are correct. They need to hear it all to build critical thinking skills.
You just can't make this stuff up!
You took the position "That's another thing we believe in by the way. Taking responsibility for your own decisions."
We, meaning we liberals, believe in taking responsibilty for ones actions or decisions. So, defend the statement, in light of what I posted. 'Cause.....garnering a huge following based on voiding student loans pissed away on useless degrees sure sounds the opposite.
But, conservatives in academia, now those are really some smart people capable of making mince meat out of the pretenders;-)
I never miss subtlety Kevin, even poor attempts at it. I respond to passive aggressive behavior with assertive.
Chad, thanks for the PM. I am not offended, I am used to the intellectually lazy lumping all educators together by now. And you know I do not include you in that group. My undergrad is from a Jesuit liberal arts college, and I was raised in a Democrat pro-union household. None of the 3 children turned out liberal. I agree with Will, the issues we discuss here are more complex than the talking points issued by both extreme sides. Some rather hurl veiled insults than actually probing a little deeper than those talking points because that is much easier for them to mentally wrestle with.
Will, Ryan, myself and others recognize that even doing all of the controllable variables 100% correctly, there still will be negative events that befall certain individuals and not others. If we could all accept that, the next step is to accept some level of a social safety net. How much, what it looks like and how it is administered ought to be the center of most of our discussions, IMHO. From an efficiency stand-point I have not heard anything better to me than a guaranteed minimum income, all other programs being eliminated. The amount, who qualifies, requirements etc. are all open for discussion.
The focus ought to be on minimizing the use of any such program, or rather the need for it in the future. How to do that without infringing upon personal freedoms would also be tough. I don't have the answers, but there are some great minds here including yours Chad. I think we would also derive a lot of satisfaction focusing on improving human conditions for those in true need rather than hitting each other over the head with what we have all been serving up. And if this makes me an idealist, I am glad to be counted as one.
Will, your style and content continue to impress the hell out of me. You truly are capable of thinking for yourself sir. Kudos!
Seriously, you delete my photo. That answers the question of the OP. Definitely a pro-trump website.
Regardless of my position the time you’ve taken is appreciated and has been entertaining. For the most part everyone is well behaved and 100% better than “news” commentary with a bunch of JO’s yelling at each other.
Oops, sorry I thought this was a hunting site.
Only if it is allowed to happen. Archery tackle will not, and cannot, preserve FREEDOM & RIGHTS...
That's how that works. It's in the history books..... if you will still be able to find one that hasn't been burned or a museum or statue that hasn't been ransacked or destroyed. That's in the playbook as well. ALL the steps we are seeing right now have played out in human history before, over and over.... with horrid endings. People saw it coming..... but did nothing to stop it. In fact humans being humans..... they jump on the bandwagon because, well, everyone else is and they want to "be a part of something". Or the winning side. Or however else you want to word it. It's exactly how it happens.
You are literally seeing that happen before your very eyes. If they are open that is.....
Always amazed me how caviler some are with freedom. They take it for granted like it's always been this way, always will be..... and ignore human history. How they take the rights so many have literally died to protect and toss them to the wind..... so a literal handful of people's precious lil feeling don't get hurt. Want to have a meaningful discussion using FACTS and not safe spaces and tender feelings?.... cool, that's how it should be. We hash it out, using facts and reality.... our people (who we elected, we do get who we elect) get together and come up with a plan. Freedom takes work. Sacrifice. Discipline. Something direly lacking in today's world of perpetual outrage, "look at me" social media and virtue signaling.
People joking about "camps" had best drop the "it can't happen here" nonsense. It can. It will if you don't act against it. It's serious stuff. We are witnessing the steps needed to do so. Disband local police. Eliminate non-approved history. Cancel culture censorship. Threats of violence for non-compliance, threats of arrest for acts of self protection. It's literally happening right now, before your eyes, all around you. Open them.
They’ve been open for a couple decades and will really intensify the learning/de-learning curve when they open again in the fall. Right now we just call them Universities and Colleges. But since they all have to be renamed anyway, might as well start calling then The People's Knowng Centers.
Here’s a very recent example: a man threw ketchup, mustard and eggs on the front door of a muslin meeting hall at night. He was caught and charged with a Hate Crime.
In May someone beheaded eight Catholic statues in a unattended grotto. Did not hit ANY mainstream news outlets yet and if caught authorities have stated they will be charged with mischief. That’s it! And nobody seems too fired up to catch the perpetrator(s).
Check out some of the Cancel Culture firings in the last month. From university board members to newscasters to football players to CEO’s and on it goes.
It’s real alright, but you just tune up your fiddle there Nero.
Hey, happy independence day everyone reading this. This big country is pretty damn awesome, and we are all really lucky to live here. Different opinions and all, it's a really amazing place. Be safe and enjoy the holiday!
What is going on? The third Trump endorsed candidate to lose! Has he lost the Midas touch? Luck run out? Or are voters waking up?
Stick a fork in it, he's done, well done.
Will- your positive attitude is inspiring. You have to be the guy in camp that gets everyone fired up after 5 days of climbing mountains elk hunting when everyone is dragging. You’re exactly the kind of person I love hunting with. You’re welcome to any campfire, any treestand, anytime.
Agreed, we are absolutely blessed to live in the good ole USA where we can have discussions like this. Thanks to Pat for providing the Bowsite and these forums.
Very thankful. Happy Independence Day everyone including Trax lol. Just kidding Trax. Have a good one.
Trump Disciple Syndrome?
Goes along with our desired goal of equality.
When I see legislation and laws that would benefit us all fail because our representatives vote with their political parties instead of voting for what's good for the country. That is a real problem.
So what now. Are we living in a Democracy where the majority rules or are we going to try to have a minority rule because they think their right and the hell with the majority. President Trump is losing in all the polls by a wide margin, if he loses or wins the USA is going to be okay. The Republicans and Democrats are only looking out for themselves and will do anything to stay in power. We need to get rid of career politicians and set term limits to break up some old politicians from getting too much power. We need to replace those with younger folks who are more in touch with our country and start changing the the direction for the better. If the majority of the country wants a new President that that's what a Democracy is. For a political party to try to steal a election using underhanded tricks can't be good for us.
One thing that has me confused, I can see both parties using dirty tricks. When a President has people who he selected start to say he isn't fit for office makes you wonder. Not just one or two but quite a few who are respected Americans. It seems if your a man of integrity your not going to last long with our President.
Good post and I agree with you.
Someone keeps pointing out Mr. Trump's conservative rating by the ACU, more conservative than Mr. Reagan's we are led to believe.
Personally, I would rather have 8 years of Reagan than just 4 years of Trump. Regan left a positive legacy that continued to have a positive impact on capitalism and markets worldwide, long after he left office. We are in jeopardy of a total Democrat victory, both houses of Congress and the executive office as well. If the animus to Mr. Trump's style allows for the Senate to fall to Democrat control, that will be at least partly on Trump. And the credit given to Mr. Trump, rightfully so, for nominating conservative judges can be offset by what the Dems will certainly try. Rational people could see this coming. Trump should have been able to as well, but that is why I also agree with Ziek's post some time back that it has always been about Trump, not the nation.
Not a chance I am a lib, but again you do the same thing Trump does and just don't get that the divisiveness is not selling any longer.
In the future I will share how as a conservative I stood by conservative principles doing so in a manner that put my career at risk. No doubt I will retire earlier than intended, and at that point I will share the full story here. I cannot at this point as it is a personnel matter, but have shared it with AM, Jack, who I know is discrete. I also know what I post is monitored. I have a long record of doing the right thing, and have seen the big talkers shrink when it actually became time to be counted or not. I am not one of them.
Your appearance and style on these types of threads, combined with your minimal involvement on others and your anonymity with regards to your registration makes me think you are a paid influencer. I have wondered if it is allowed because the site also receives support, or just because your views parallel the owner's. It is a private site, so censorship is allowed, but it always surprises me that the most vocal about the press say nothing about limiting views here. Seems inconsistent positions, yet we only recognize when others do it.
Regarding Reagan, it doesn't matter what the press said back then. If you believed in conservative principles and free markets, you knew he was the real deal. I always recognized it, and the ability he had with words was truly a gift to this nation. What history always shows is that outside of Jesus Christ, none of us have lived perfect lives.
I certainly don't have that feeling with Trump. Love his court appointments, love the de-regulation, lower taxes, stronger military, protected border, taking on China and trade in general. JMO, but these will all be over-shadowed by his inability to put 8 years of it together because of the divisiveness he fostered. We already knew the press was biased long before he arrived, which you acknowledged with regards to Reagan. He helped tarnish the reputation of FOX by them allowing it. His legacy will be that we will never put such an extreme narcissist in office again.
You mention blind dumb sheep, couldn't agree more, but their both Democrat and Republican sheep. I don't need a political party to tell what to think. The only difference I see between parties is the Democrats give my money to the poor and the Republicans give my money to the rich. Either way I lose. Both sides are getting rich by selling their votes to special interests. Insurance companies, Drug manufacturers, Wall Street and Banking, Gas and Oil companies. They do this by getting us fighting over gun rights, abortion, etc., etc. and not looking where the problems are.
Don't blame your neighbors for our problems. Greed and power seems to be the problem IMO.
I personally take pride in the fact that I'm a independent thinker. No political party or no one tells me what to think. I judge people by actions not political affliction. I read and try to keep up with what's going on and come to my own conclusions.
AMEN BROTHER!!! Wish more people would, or even could!
BC good point... there was a sports writer that used to call Washington the "DC Indigenous Peoples" or similar. They could go that way and KC could stay the Chiefs, it's a good name, strong and about leadership.
I'm sure they will get pushed though... KC Comanche perhaps... I think they were one of the tribes in that area, originally.
KS, you’re right, that near illiterate spew has to be HH . But that’s all you’re right about!
Perfect pick as the Democrats are demonstrating that removing history and creating new versions suits their ill educated supporters. Too bad that they aren't woke enough to follow companies re-branding to remove the taint of Aunt Jemima, Uncle Bens, Dixie Chicks, et. al.
Susan Rice is more likely IMO.
Clearly the economy had been performing well, but especially for minorities who had grown so used to tokenism that it's taken them awhile to fully appreciate tangible results. The economic tug-of-war with China, often criticized has forced that country into at least approaching honest entry into the global markets and that, in and of itself is a vast improvement the downstream benefits of which will only foster further economic growth, not only in the US but globally.
Meaningful prison reform, another favorite "talk, but do nothing" plank of the left was actually addressed by Trump; highlight this while drawing the contrast between empty promises and promises kept.
With regard to the candidates on the left there is no reason to go any further than their history of failures of governance; the Library of Congress isn't large enough to contain all the tomes required.
For those who have already proclaimed the re-election chances of Trump to be doomed, you are entitled to your opinion and mathematically speaking you have a 50/50 chance of being right. I would offer that many on the left do not share that comfort level as witnessed by the never-ending campaign to damage him by any and all means possible. Those actions do not bespeak of confidence but rather of the desperation borne of the realization that they have pushed too far and can only await the inevitable crash.
America is not perfect but this is still an inherently fair and just people; I maintain that the only question isn't will Trump win re-election but by how wide a margin.
We'll see soon enough.
The results you listed, I agree.
But we live in a time that substance does take a back seat to style, witness the Kardashians and other freak show popularity.
Trump's own business success is suspect at best, stories abound about people not being paid for example, multiple bankruptcies. He is the biggest con artist of our time IMO.
I look at some of his staunch supporters, which seems to be a declining number. Take Trax for example...adamant about the rule of law all the while posting in violation of site rules. Many are starting to see Trump in the same light, not walking the talk. Certainly arguments can and will be made why Trax is not doing anything wrong, yet Broken Windows argument made the point that minor lapses grow into bigger ones. Either follow the rules or don't complain when someone else doesn't.
I would love to see another 4 years of his policies. But, I don't think the electorate can withstand the daily dumps. Not arguing it's not worth putting up with, just people are sick enough of it to vote for anyone else at this time.
If I am wrong, I will start the thread myself that can dump on me. If you are wrong, no excuses. Trump gets all the blame because with his record he just had to remain mostly quiet, but couldn't bring himself to do it. I hope the Rs hold the Senate.
Anyone making a statement like this you can conclude the same about. I don't see anyone who laid this all at Trump's feet. People that don't understand the Oval Office obligates the occupant to a higher standard doesn't understand leadership and has obviously zero experience in it.
And their reading comprehension skills also lack. Trump will get all of the blame for not being reelected, not all of the blame for the divisiveness.
Ball back in the court of the guy who never responds to me, but does while talking about honesty. You just can't make this stuff up!
As is the case with a number of lay people you've taken only a very superficial look at the statistics and reached an incorrect conclusion. Pig Doc has touched on a few obvious flaws in your conclusion and you can add factors like patient demographics, population density, access to mass transit, etc to further clarify the situation.
Lest we forget we are also making a true gauging of this pandemic's impact owing to how we're encouraging hospitals to qualify morbidity and mortality statistics as owing to COVID-19. Hospitals faced with the loss of revenue from elective surgeries can't be faulted for making use of reimbursement incentives to code patients as "COVID-19" related in the metrics I mentioned; again, while understandable and in some cases very likely warranted, it skews the data.
What I've observed is there are 2 camps who embrace the statistics in the manner you posted; lay people who are honestly naive about the complexities of epidemiological tracing and infectious disease management and those who have a political agenda.
I don't know you so as I would extend the benefit of the doubt to someone I've just met I will do the same for you and put you in the first category. To me, anyone falling in this category is perhaps the single best example of how our media has completely failed us.
It would be best for the economy if we have another 4 years of lower taxes, deregulation, fair trade agreements, a stronger military etc. As a conservative that's what I want!
The reality is style does count, like it or not. You know this. Yet, some will constantly moan about the fact that style counts, while they point out the cry babies on the left. It is the way it is. Accept it old men.
If Trump could have acted to a level commensurate with the highest office in the world, we conservatives would not be concerned today about a Dem sweep.
And it is simply nonsense he needed to act like that to survive. People say it as an excuse for their willingness to look the other way with his behavior that eroded the dignity of his office. Either we conservatives have standards and adhere to them or we surrender the moral high ground.
And Trump was doing fine accepting the cultural changes, which I do as well given my Libertarian leanings. Let people live and enjoy their lives as long as they bring no harm to others.
Deep down Trax I think we agree on the style. We don't have to like it, but we have to deal with it or find ourselves lost in the wilderness and out of power with zero say on what is important to us.
Then over the course of the last 3 1/2years, seeing the blatant lies by leftists and their cohorts in the media, how anyone could hold up much less thrive under such an onslaught.... PROVEN lies over and over and no sense of remorse or dishonor for propagating them.... I started to see it was very likely Trump was the PERFECT man for the job of cleaning house. The entire political world had lost sight they were there to benefit the USA and ALL it's citizens and not themselves. The "deep state" had indeed entrenched it's parasitical tendrils over generations. The Machine had come to exist solely for the machine itself. I've come to see what REALLY pizzes them off is he won't play their game. Couch what you "really" believe in flowery prose, hide your goals from a public who just "wouldn't understand what's best for them." Trump, when when punched, he punches back twice as hard. What he is... is a fighter.... and they don't like that. You're supposed to just sit up there as a target to rail against and do nothing in defense. The media used to toss accusations and insults at conservative officials with impunity. Now they get slapped in the face for their lies and BS. That's not fair! It's not how we've set it up....
Honestly, it's easy to see. Anyone willing to sit down and work out a deal is pretty much dealt with respect. Want to be a dick you're going to be called out as one. A Shiffffft or Pelosi.... where the hell did folks come up with electing such scum. Lying scum they are, I see no problem with Trump pointing that out. CNN? MSNBC? They are literally wrong as much or more than they are right. So point it out... again, literally fake news. So call out their BS, because clearly nobody on the left has any issues with lies and deceit as it helps "the cause", whatever that vapor ghost de jure may be. The entrenched republican swamp won't stand up to them either, just look at them now as cities burn.... they have been trained to fear them. When shots are fired they run to find the nearest thing to hide behind. Say what you will..... Trump will not hide. He is no coward.
Trump has no fear. None. He's done what he wants in life. Now he wants to help the country, it's people. FOR the USA. It's a HUGE wrench in the globalists plans for sure.
I can clearly see he may just be EXACTLY what the country needs right now to clear out the entrenched machine, drain the swamp if you will. He doesn't care if your widdle feewings get hurt by doing so. He does know this thing needs to be run BY Americans, FOR Americans, not Globalists and career politicians/bureaucrats to enrich themselves. Not going to get there being a powder puff on a world apology tour for being strong and successful.
Biden? Seriously? Even if he had a few faculties left, he's the poster boy for self serving politician. The minute he is in charge of Ukrainian policy, his son is hired by one of the most corrupt mega companies in the country for millions of dollars, for a skill set that is solely based on his father and his connections. Then when the cash cow is threatened he publicly, on video.... demands, brags actually, the people looking into it be fired or he will deny BILLIONS of dollars in aid to the country. Yet the left is just fine with that? Nothing to see here.... You people are truly, morally sick. Get help. Trumps words upset you? I'm with him, pizz off...... go find someone who'll TELL you they care.....
And yeah, Matt is correct, Harris literally slept her way to the top, yet few know this because they are WILLFULLY uninformed. And WILLFULLY kept that way. Ignorance is never accidental....
Biden, Obama, Sanders, Warren, Harris, and yes.... many on the republican side as well.... all many TIMES richer than when they took office. How is this? Yet America sits fine with this. Unbelievable they will ignore what sits right in their faces. Trump? he's made his wealth, made his mark. I truly believe he's doing what he can for his COUNTRY. Not some subset special interest groups, for everyone.
For these times he may just be perfect. Fearless. Could care less what someone thinks of what he's doing, he's going to do what he sees is right. Speaks with no filters (sorry if he hurt your feelings....) but if you aren't getting the job done the way he sees it needing done.... hit the road. It's about work and performance. Results. Not who or what you are. Or in many ways what ideology. You may not like HIM, but you can't ignore his results. Economy, Foreign Policy... Judicial appointments.... knocking it out of the park. Honestly, he may be the least ideological we've had in some time. It's about results. Performance. Yeah.... winning.....
Yes, all of what you speak to regarding past President's rings true.
But here's two facts why this is different. First, we expect societal standards to advance over time. Proof of this is those of us who find it utterly ridiculous tearing down historical monuments by people using today's standards to judge long ago behavior occurring under different norms.
Second, and probably bigger, social media, mass communications, hyper sensitive media on both sides etc. using any ammo they can. It has never been this rough to manage an image. Tweeting which helped Trump get past the biased press was abused and has led to his over exposure.
Based on the economic performance, this election ought to be a no-brainer. Apparently Trump would rather have a fight.
Trax, given Covid and numerous other challenges, I just sense from multiple sources people are tired of the fighting and need to wake up with less drama in their lives, not another tweet debacle they find distracting. I know it should not be this way, but I think begrudgingly you might admit there is a shred of truth to what is said here.
He does have a chance, if he can listen, come off more positive and show empathy he has time still. But based on what we have seen over his entire live, safe money would bet against it.
Rumors of Alito and Thomas thinking about retirement, this is a dangerous time, especially given Robert's leftward drift.
Do you honestly think Biden could perform as President for the full 4 years? And how do you think his VP pick (only stated requirement thus far is having a v'gina) will affect national unity with the likelihood of an even greater leap to the left if/when he steps down?
Also - Do you consider decapitating statues a positive or negative influence towards national unity? Trump is for prosecuting those actions... Biden's campaign staff is donating dollars to bail them out. A very real difference on the November ballot... which way do you stand on this??
I think I have addressed your questions already, but maybe we were typing at the same time? I will try again, and with respect, please forgive my style which is irritating and no one would vote for me as the best guy around. If my irritation works against me, come on man, you know Trump's does as well!
This has nothing to do with what I personally think about Trump, his successes, his failures, nor Biden's. It has to do with what I think will be the outcome in November taking a read on the electorate and the mood they are in.
First, if image doesn't matter, I think Cruz would have been the R nominee in 2016. I predicted, correctly, that he would not be and that prediction was based off of his less than favorable image. Principles on the conservative front, I liked him a lot, but saw him as unelectable on the national stage. Wasn't his last election the closest ever? Demographics in TX is changing, more on that in a minute.
Trump OTH had years of milking shows like Oprah were he worked his magic. Many were probably surprised by his rough edges when in the past he played the common sense dignitary perfectly. They are aware of who he is now, and what worked against Cruz is front and center for Trump. We may not like these facts, but the process has a way of filtering the hard right and hard left out (Where's Bernie?). If someone would quit jumping up and down shouting they are the smartest contributor on BS and think about how they keep telling the rest of us we are fools to vote except for the party candidate because they understand better than the rest of us minions here how the 2 party/republic/democrat process works, they might realize what worked against Cruz is still there.
I don't think Biden will be capable of serving, and only a fool would/could think he will get anything done given the 40 years of documented non-achievement. IMO there remains a high degree of probability of a contested Dem nomination, not even sure Biden will be on the ballot.
Anyone can read into what I think about the utter ridiculousness about destroying or hiding historical monuments. A nation will never relish all of her history because humans make mistakes. But, we are obligated to learn our history, and understand the role it played in making us better now than ever. We must learn history, and learn from it so we do not repeat the same mistakes. I am in total agreement and support with our president that we must identify the culprits and prosecute them under the fullest extent of the law, I am also in agreement with complying with the registration rules of this site;-) Sniper, do you have a problem with people who do not? A fair question right?
So let me get to the most inflammatory response of this post. What I believe is happening is our demographics as a nation is changing rapidly, and as humans we do not like change. I think there are a bunch of older, white men who are having a difficult time adapting to the changes, changes our system is designed to be able to handle. Whether it is bias, or worse, pools of people from different back grounds such as Black, Latino, Asian, Muslim etc. who have felt disenfranchised in the past sense the timing is right to advance major change. If you read any of the polls, neither Trump or Biden are thought of fondly. The Dems are picking up on this and no doubt will have a diverse duo running. Let me repeat, my posts are not about what this old, white, heterosexual, conservative male thinks is best, but rather what forces are at play and how the end results will be affected.
Some of you will continue to slap each other on the back for thinking the way older, white, heterosexual conservatives males think, and even though Kevin once said he is not interested in back slapping with people who think the same way he does, his quotes and accolades multiple times above proves otherwise. I don't have the answers, but am committed to looking, talking and learning. I would rather share my passion for capitalism and markets in a positive way, especially as millennials now begin to outnumber Baby Boomer voters. They, like all other generations respond to positivity and are turned off by a bunch of bitter old, you know what, incapable of adapting. The world is changing, we are either a positive force or history will treat us unkindly just like the current trend of bashing the past.
