Giant Mulies-bowhunting’s hardest hunt?
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
standswittaknife 18-Jul-20
yooper89 18-Jul-20
standswittaknife 18-Jul-20
Treeline 18-Jul-20
Matt 18-Jul-20
Spiral Horn 18-Jul-20
Pop-r 18-Jul-20
MichaelArnette 18-Jul-20
Ambush 18-Jul-20
Pop-r 18-Jul-20
Treeline 18-Jul-20
Treeline 18-Jul-20
Outdoordan 18-Jul-20
EmbryOklahoma 18-Jul-20
Treeline 18-Jul-20
Treeline 18-Jul-20
Outdoordan 18-Jul-20
Zim 18-Jul-20
Scoot 18-Jul-20
Outdoordan 18-Jul-20
EmbryOklahoma 18-Jul-20
whipranger 18-Jul-20
stick n string 18-Jul-20
Ambush 18-Jul-20
altitude sick 18-Jul-20
whipranger 18-Jul-20
Scoot 18-Jul-20
Nick Muche 18-Jul-20
ground hunter 18-Jul-20
IdyllwildArcher 18-Jul-20
whipranger 18-Jul-20
Treeline 18-Jul-20
Ambush 18-Jul-20
standswittaknife 19-Jul-20
Jaquomo 20-Jul-20
Kurt 20-Jul-20
StickFlicker 20-Jul-20
Out-there 20-Jul-20
Jaquomo 20-Jul-20
smarba 23-Jul-20
Rocky D 23-Jul-20
altitude sick 23-Jul-20
Rocky D 23-Jul-20
Rocky D 23-Jul-20
DL 23-Jul-20
BOWUNTR 23-Jul-20
Beendare 23-Jul-20
StickFlicker 23-Jul-20
Zackman 23-Jul-20
DL 23-Jul-20
IdyllwildArcher 23-Jul-20
Matt 23-Jul-20
casper 24-Jul-20
Ermine 24-Jul-20
altitude sick 24-Jul-20
altitude sick 24-Jul-20
Rocky D 24-Jul-20
Matte 24-Jul-20
Rocky D 24-Jul-20
Medicinemann 24-Jul-20
whipranger 24-Jul-20
Rocky D 24-Jul-20
Ambush 24-Jul-20
standswittaknife 24-Jul-20
Ermine 24-Jul-20
Rocky D 24-Jul-20
Nick Muche 24-Jul-20
Rocky D 24-Jul-20
whipranger 24-Jul-20
Jaquomo 24-Jul-20
badbull 24-Jul-20
Treeline 24-Jul-20
Twinetickler 24-Jul-20
Jaquomo 24-Jul-20
Jaquomo 24-Jul-20
Jaquomo 24-Jul-20
Twinetickler 24-Jul-20
Ambush 24-Jul-20
Jaquomo 24-Jul-20
Treeline 24-Jul-20
Jaquomo 24-Jul-20
Drnaln 24-Jul-20
badbull 25-Jul-20
Twinetickler 25-Jul-20
Trophyhill 25-Jul-20
altitude sick 25-Jul-20
Rocky D 25-Jul-20
altitude sick 25-Jul-20
Grey Ghost 25-Jul-20
Jaquomo 25-Jul-20
Grey Ghost 25-Jul-20
Jaquomo 25-Jul-20
EmbryOklahoma 25-Jul-20
t-roy 25-Jul-20
Rocky D 25-Jul-20
Chief 419 25-Jul-20
Jaquomo 25-Jul-20
whipranger 25-Jul-20
Twinetickler 25-Jul-20
Panther Bone 25-Jul-20
whipranger 25-Jul-20
shooter 25-Jul-20
Chief 419 26-Jul-20
shooter 26-Jul-20
Rocky D 26-Jul-20
whipranger 26-Jul-20
RD in WI 26-Jul-20
Jaquomo 26-Jul-20
Twinetickler 26-Jul-20
Chief 419 26-Jul-20
whipranger 26-Jul-20
Chief 419 26-Jul-20
Panther Bone 26-Jul-20
Rocky D 26-Jul-20
Ollie 26-Jul-20
RD in WI 26-Jul-20
Adventurewriter 27-Jul-20
Rocky D 27-Jul-20
Rocky D 27-Jul-20
Jaquomo 27-Jul-20
Medicinemann 27-Jul-20
Treeline 27-Jul-20
Rocky D 27-Jul-20
Jaquomo 27-Jul-20
Muleysareking 27-Jul-20
Rocky D 27-Jul-20
Jaquomo 27-Jul-20
Thornton 27-Jul-20
altitude sick 27-Jul-20
Tilzbow 27-Jul-20
Rocky D 27-Jul-20
Treeline 27-Jul-20
Treeline 27-Jul-20
Panther Bone 27-Jul-20
Tilzbow 27-Jul-20
Panther Bone 27-Jul-20
standswittaknife 27-Jul-20
Treeline 27-Jul-20
Rocky D 27-Jul-20
Rocky D 27-Jul-20
18-Jul-20
Put this in the general area because it’s not just a mulie thread. I’m pretty sure late mulies are the hardest animal in North America to hunt in the wild. I’m talking above timberline giant bucks.. just my thoughts for the morning..

From: yooper89
18-Jul-20
I think there’s been a similar topic. Killing a giant whitetail on public has to be up there.

18-Jul-20
*large* mulies not late

From: Treeline
18-Jul-20

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo
My favorite hunt...

There are some tricks that do work.

“So easy even a stick bow guy can do it”

From: Matt
18-Jul-20
Have you hunted coues much? Having hunted both in situations where they share the same habitat, I think they arre tougher than mulies.

From: Spiral Horn
18-Jul-20
Spot and stalk Muleys are my favorite North American Bowhunt - very difficult but just attainable if all goes right. It’s a thrill when successful and I’ve been fortunate to have taken a number of trophy class bucks. Although I’ve tried a number of times, IMO a spot and stalk Trophy Whitetail Hunt is much, much harder. Have only taken one P&Y gross WT via spot and stalk with a bow. Coues may be the hardest WT subspecies based on terrain. Anyway, WT gets my vote for the toughest in NA. Also, I’d consider wild, free-ranging Aoudad spot and stalk tougher bowhunt than a Muley as well.

From: Pop-r
18-Jul-20
I was going to say before reading Spiral Horn's post that I've always heard how difficult they are to hunt and that a 5+ yr old muley buck is the smartest animal ever. I don't hunt them that much except for in MT because the tag comes together so I whack one every year but I hunt high for elk ALOT and high country bucks aren't that "wild" in my opinion. Whitetails at home will be about 92x wilder & spookier than most big muley bucks I've been blessed to come across. Another benefit is out west there is most always a good wind.

18-Jul-20
With a stickbow yes, with a compound might be the easiest hunt in the US

From: Ambush
18-Jul-20
^^^. Now that’s kinda funny!

From: Pop-r
18-Jul-20
Now the stick bow makes it another game all together.

From: Treeline
18-Jul-20
Mature Coues, spot & stalk, with a bow is the toughest native NA game species.

Blow eastern white tails out of the water...

Even when they are totally stupid in the rut!

The terrain, vegetation, the size of the target, their habits, and the fact that they have to to every predator from bobcats and even eagles up to lions and even wolves 24/7/365 puts those little buggers on edge even when they sleep!

Kill a couple of mature Coues (100”+) one on one with a stick bow and you’ve done something;-)

From: Treeline
18-Jul-20
Toughest non-native critter with a bow in NA is a mature ibex billy in the Florida Mountains of New Mexico.

Hands down...

Except for Carl! He definitely has them wired... Although he still needs to get one with a stick bow to prove that he really knows what he’s doing!

From: Outdoordan
18-Jul-20
I think that many of the guys saying Mulies are not that hard aren't considering what this op stated. "Timberline Giant Bucks". Killing a Mulie isn't that hard. Killing a "Giant Buck", is though. Mostly because trying to find one is like finding a unicorn. Then trying to put an arrow in it kicks that to the next level.

18-Jul-20
Now... if you kill one with a spear and your loin cloth, you’ve done something. Or an atlatl. Stick bow... pshhh! ;)

From: Treeline
18-Jul-20
Not necessarily, Dan.

Hunting the right areas and knowing how to look and find them makes a huge difference...

Sticking an arrow in them isn’t that tough...

If you can execute a good stalk and keep all the variables in your favor for the 2,000’ drop followed by the 2,000’ climb to get on his side of the canyon.

Then slip in to bow range quietly enough that he doesn’t hear you.

Then have the patience to stay still for a couple of hours for him to stand up.

And get lucky enough with the wind that he doesn’t smell you and blow out at 100 miles per hour.

Oh, and hold your $#it together to make a good shot!

No problem!

From: Treeline
18-Jul-20
Would take that challenge up if it was legal in CO, Rick!

Would love to skewer one with an atlatl and stone point.... Heck, I’d even take on the challenge with just a spear!

Will need to talk to the guys at Kuiu about that loin cloth and get back to you;-)

From: Outdoordan
18-Jul-20
Ok, well I've killed a few. I do know that I can go a season without seeing a "giant". I do think that killing a giant with a stickbow could make things radically harder. I've killed one with a stickbow, but not a "giant".

From: Zim
18-Jul-20
Curious to get your thoughts...if you pull spot and stalk out of the tool bag, killing big mulies seems exponentially harder, no? And I’m not saying it should be pulled out of the bag, it’s a great tool, but that technique limits you to specific terrain and cuts out a large portion of the bucks. I often wonder how many behemoth bucks are out there, quietly living in some nasty hell hole, rarely venture out, die of old age, and hunters never know. Robby Denning has mentioned this thought haunts his mind as well. You have a slight chance of killing those brutes with a rifle or muzzleloader, but how do you do it with a bow? Sit in a treestand on the periphery for days on end? Use trail cams to find the game trail he rarely wanders out on and build a blind nearby? You may get lucky, but is there anyone that has cracked this code, harvesting brutes year after year with a bow? There’s giants out there, they just live in nasty terrain. I’ve spent much time day dreaming of those ghosts. I’m of the opinion the monarch of the west is a huge, weathered, character ridden, mule deer buck.

From: Scoot
18-Jul-20
Tavis, regarding ibex and Carl I'd have to disagree. Anybody can kill those dumb things. Easy terrain, no scouting necessary, simple/ short/flat shots... easy peasy! Carl has gotten lucky! Then lucky again. Then lucky again. Come to think of it Carl gets really lucky with elk and mule deer and antelope too. The dude must be living right because I've never met someone so consistently lucky!

From: Outdoordan
18-Jul-20
I think part of the problem is everyone has a different opinion on what a "giant" is. I also believe it has to have age and mass, and not necessarily a "score". But, you ask somebody else, and they have a different opinion.

18-Jul-20
I’ve spot and stalked high country mule deer once. I’ve also tried spot and stalk on mature does in SE Oklahoma a few times. I’d say it’s harder to S&S a mature doe or buck in SE Ok, than a high country mule deer. My opinion... take it for what it’s worth.

That said... just hearing about some folks experience with those little desert deer, I’d say some of you are correct at being the toughest to S&S. I need to try some day.

From: whipranger
18-Jul-20
Big mulies are by far the toughest. Whitetails if you watch them bed are hands down the easiest to get with them being so prone to holding tight even if they see you you can get in bow range. Coues can be tough but still not as hard as mulies

18-Jul-20
Lmao. What for whitetails r u huntin that u can get to bowrange of a bedded one that has seen you? I wanna hunt there early in the season so i can fill my freezer and get to huntin for fun...

From: Ambush
18-Jul-20
There's few Bowsiter's that kill animals with a stick that most of us can only dream about with a compound and many with guns can't even manage it. Anybody can luck out (like me) but to consistently do it, proves that person's skill and knowledge. I put considerable weight to their opinions.

18-Jul-20

altitude sick's embedded Photo
altitude sick's embedded Photo
Your all wrong, the toughest spot and stalk animal in N.A. Is the wiley Opossum.

From: whipranger
18-Jul-20
Stick have ever tried stalking in Pa or do you just hop in a tree like 99.9% of deer hunters. Try it you won’t believe how that sharp wiley buck from a stand lays tight in his thicket thinking you don’t see him

From: Scoot
18-Jul-20
Tavis, regarding ibex and Carl I'd have to disagree. Anybody can kill those dumb things. Easy terrain, no scouting necessary, simple/ short/flat shots... easy peasy! Carl has gotten lucky! Then lucky again. Then lucky again. Come to think of it Carl gets really lucky with elk and mule deer and antelope too. The dude must be living right because I've never met someone so consistently lucky!

From: Nick Muche
18-Jul-20
If it was easy would it be any fun? Just put me in coach... I wanna play!

18-Jul-20
My first mulie kill was above Timberline, in the Sierra Nevadas, of California, in the early 70s. Was not tough, but tough to get too....They were uneducated and no pressure, for the most part..... Different world today.......

Above timberline and tough hunt today, Nevada,,,,,, great place to hunt,,,, if were talking public land.....

Mulies are excellent..... as far as Whitetails, this may go against the grid, but in places I hunted, not as hard as a big mulie, if were talking public and pressure

18-Jul-20
Shooting a true giant of any species with a bow is exceptionally difficult. Just based on the numbers of giant males being such a small minority of the population.

From: whipranger
18-Jul-20
Stalking anything is more exciting. I spotted a coyote sitting watching for mice/ rabbits on an open hill. I spent the next hour and a half stalking him. I managed to get less than 10 yards from him and as I raised up over the finger to shoot he started growing at me and slinking away. I quickly missed him but was able to reload and put an arrow threw him before he got to 30 yards. A benefit of shooting a recurve

From: Treeline
18-Jul-20
Paul is an exception to what most folks would consider the “rule”. One of the best bow hunters anywhere.

He learned from one of the best bowhunters of all time. 99.9% of bowhunters will never hear or know anything about...

From: Ambush
18-Jul-20
Most of us hunt like well fed dogs.

A very, very few hunt with the patience, cunning and determination of a hungry cougar.

A couple of the latter have posted here .

19-Jul-20
Paul is lucky... pure and simple..

From: Jaquomo
20-Jul-20
Did a post get pulled? Paul who?

I don't do mountain muleys anymore but have huge respect for guys like Roy Grace who consistently kill whopper velvet bucks. I can attest to the difficulty of spot-stalk Coues with a recurve. Incredibly frustrating. As for whitetails, I don't even really hunt them and have killed 3 P&Y bucks on the ground, two with recurves. But where I hunt they aren't as pressured as some big woods bucks, so they are truly different animals.

I will throw this out - spot-stalk on a big mature rutting muley buck with does is as difficult as anything I've ever done. That's why I learned to call and decoy to consistently kill them then.

From: Kurt
20-Jul-20
Jaq....Paul is Whipranger...son of Gary.

From: StickFlicker
20-Jul-20
"...is there anyone that has cracked this code, harvesting brutes year after year with a bow?"

Randy Ulmer. He's a stone cold killer on giant Mule Deer year after year!

From: Out-there
20-Jul-20

Out-there's embedded Photo
Prairie Mullies
Out-there's embedded Photo
Prairie Mullies
Out-there's embedded Photo
Out-there's embedded Photo
Out-there's embedded Photo
200+ Hills Buck
Out-there's embedded Photo
200+ Hills Buck
Some are just plain hard to get too.

From: Jaquomo
20-Jul-20
Roy Grace has cracked the code.

From: smarba
23-Jul-20
LOL Tavis & Scoot. Hey, I may not use a stickbow, but 5, 12 and 34 yards for an average of 17 should qualify as stickbow close, doesn't it?!

From: Rocky D
23-Jul-20
Just wondering, did any of see Frank Noska’s article in the Bowhunter big game special?

He chose the whitetail number one and mule deer number two.

His opinion aligns with mine which means little but his should carry little bit more weight.

23-Jul-20
I won’t argue which is smarter or harder to hunt but,

I do know trophy Mule deer are far more rare than trophy Whitetails. Many states grow big whitetail Only a handful grow big Mulies.

So just finding one is harder.

From: Rocky D
23-Jul-20
Altitude, you seem like a math guy and I agree on the assumption but that would also support the whitetail being more difficult.

From: Rocky D
23-Jul-20
I never bought all the hype about coues deer being any tougher than a regular whitetail! The terrain is tougher typically if you are talking spot and stalk but if you are talking baiting...

Giants of any type are tough but that is more support for the whitetail!

I will make a bet that there are far more 200 inch mule deer killed every year than 200 inch whitetail. Now if you are calling 190 a giant then I will still go with me whitetail. Normally, on Bowsite everything is harder than whitetail! If you are talking public land then it’s no question about the whitetail. The west has pristine opportunities on public land whereas there are very few public areas that support giant Whitetails.

From: DL
23-Jul-20

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo
I would think any animal you might risk your life to get close to like a mountain goat would be right near the top.

A Himalayan snow cock in the Ruby mountains in Nevada is the most difficult. It’s never been done. A hen turkey sized bird that lives up where the mountain goats are.

From: BOWUNTR
23-Jul-20
I guarantee you it's been done... been in bow range many times. Ed F

From: Beendare
23-Jul-20
Mulies; not even close to the hardest hunt in my book.

Aoudads....Ibex....both much harder. Blacktails are harder too, IMO. Coues- sure....Don't forget Axis deer.

From: StickFlicker
23-Jul-20
Rocky, a large percentage of Coues killed are taken in Arizona, and they don't allow baiting.

From: Zackman
23-Jul-20
Any animal that makes it to 7+ years of age is a true trophy with a bow. I think most animals that reach full potential for trophy quality are around that age—or older.

Once they get that old, they are exceptionally difficult to kill with now and arrow

From: DL
23-Jul-20
Well Ed I’d sure like to know their story. I’ve been in bow range of all kinds of game that I wasn’t hunting or out of season. So if you know of someone please share. I know several taxidermists in Nevada and they haven’t heard of anyone.

23-Jul-20
I agree with Zack.

And Mike, you said, "I will make a bet that there are far more 200 inch mule deer killed every year than 200 inch whitetail." But that comparison is sorta apples and oranges because they're different animals. There's a reason the P&Y minimum for WT is 125 inches, yet 145 for MD.

And I also bet that's not the case even if you just looked at each if you added in all gun kills. There's just so many more WT killed every year than MD. 30 million WT in NA, 4 million MD.

From: Matt
23-Jul-20
A number of years back a friend killed a blacktail buck on a 1,000 acre ranch we hunt each year. He was a "house" buck, raised around people and pretty docile as a youngster. He turned 3 and disappeared. One night I was walking into an area for a hunt and he trotted past me before I could get a shot. Another guy had seen him in the same area the week prior. He was probably 6-7 at the time. We glassed him up a few years later just before season walking across an opening 1/2 a mile away - never saw him during season. My buddy killed him 2-3 years later in a brush pile and I believe he was aged at 12.5 years old. From where he was killed to where he was spotted those 3 other times wasn't more than 400 yards in any direction. Its the bucks that, despite living in a small core area on a relatively small property that received a fair but of hunting pressure, you only glimpse for 30 seconds every 3 years that are the tough ones.

From: casper
24-Jul-20
In my opinion Mule deer big or small are stupid compared to a mature coues whitetail buck.

From: Ermine
24-Jul-20
I think what makes high country mulies tough is the terrain they live in. But also awesome. Old mature mulies are smart and they get old because they are smart.

With that said I would venture to say coues whitetails are tougher to kill spot and stalk thou. They flinch when a tweety bird flys by them.

24-Jul-20

altitude sick's embedded Photo
altitude sick's embedded Photo
Ok I’ll end this debate.

Everyone knows it’s Wiley Opossum Below tree line

24-Jul-20

altitude sick's embedded Photo
altitude sick's embedded Photo
Some may argue It’s a mature 10 yr old ground hog

From: Rocky D
24-Jul-20
Mule deer cannot withstand the pressure the whitetails can. If any western state suffered the pressure of Wisconsin and And Ohio it would not be producing top end bucks and ranking in the top five every year.

idyll, agree but if you change the numbers to 200 Mule deer and 180 whitetail and the significant numbers of whitetails killed I bet your ratio will support whitetails are king.

Adam’s, comment is a no brainer but based pressure and survivability the whitetail IMHO is a far superior at a younger age than mule deer. Over much of the whitetails range there are huge expanses that never produce B&C animals and if take out the extensive QDMA some states B&C Bucks taken numbers would be abysmal! Also, the many years of bucks only hunting you had many states like Pennsylvania that the average aged buck taken was 18-24 months old. These states will take years to develop the proper age structure to produce the age structure to promote B&C caliber bucks.

Stickflicker, that is a recent change if I am not mistaken. I be hunted coues a little and I would Agree with ermine that terrain is a huge factor.

First many are making assessments on animals that they have not hunted which IMO is guess at best! The more knowledge in a particular domain increases the ability to critically make the assessment considering all the variables.

Treeline, “Mature Coues, spot & stalk, with a bow is the toughest native NA game species.” Change this to whitetails and the record book would be practically empty whereas I would venture to say is how the majority of coues deer are killed. If put in the variable of public land then there wouldn’t be hardly any B&C whitetails killed over most of it range. Also, if most course hunters new more about sheep hunting then they would be more successful. I remember when Craig Boddington was writing and trying to make a 65 inch coues a worthy theophylline with a gun. When I was in Arizona I wouldn’t let my wife shoot a coues buck under 90 inches with a gun! Had this been public ground in most of East I would of let her shoot a 100 inch whitetail on public ground. The 100 inch whitetail is no where near the trophy quality as the 90 inch coues.

From: Matte
24-Jul-20
I have killed both Giant Mulies and Whitetails in their beds. While tough to do on the flat Kansas Prairie it's doable with a good wind. The last Whitetail was at 15' bedded down in a coulee bedded in a thick mess of tumble weeds. Mountain bucks are tough as hell though.

From: Rocky D
24-Jul-20
Matte, think East of the Mississippi and how few of stalking opportunities you have where the vast majority of whitetails are killed. Kansas, SD, ND, Nebraska, and other western states offer more stalkable terrain for whitetails. A wise man would not take on the task of killing a giant whitetail in most of it’s range. Whereas, you being in Kansas it is not such SILLY thought!

From: Medicinemann
24-Jul-20
RockyD, OK....I'll bite. You wrote "I remember when Craig Boddington was writing and trying to make a 65 inch coues a worthy theophylline with a gun."

To me, theophylline is a type of drug known as a bronchodilator...?

From: whipranger
24-Jul-20
Rocky you say mulies can’t handle the pressure but if they’re already extremely tough and you add the pressure that would make them UNKILLABLE

From: Rocky D
24-Jul-20
Whip, you missed the point they cannot handle the pressure. Tell where can for 190 muley that isn’t limited entry or private land.

P.S. I know you can’t vote for big coues deer because you make look to easy with that stick bow.

From: Ambush
24-Jul-20
Ok, what is a “Giant” muley? In inches and/or age.

24-Jul-20
I’m saying any buck over 190 for mulies.. in the op so my rules!

From: Ermine
24-Jul-20
A true 190” muley is almost as rare as a unicorn in my experience

From: Rocky D
24-Jul-20
Ermine, Colorado has filled the record book with 190 inch mule deer and dominates the record book for number of entries.

From: Nick Muche
24-Jul-20
Can anyone look up how many 190" Muley's have been entered into P&Y?

From: Rocky D
24-Jul-20
There are several limited entry areas that you would have a legitimate chance of seeing a 190 mule deer. I don’t think that there is any public land where you would go to that 190 would be a legitimate thought. Sure they kill them but who goes thinking that they will actually see one.

From: whipranger
24-Jul-20
Everyone goes out thinking they’ll see one just like every elk hunter thinks he’s gonna see a 350”. Being that Colorado is draw for deer everywhere I can’t argue about the 190” in general areas but I have seen them in OTC areas in Az and Ne. As for 190” bucks I have 2 (A 190” and my best a 200”)and a couple just shy. And I also have nightmares of several arrows not connecting on other giants.

From: Jaquomo
24-Jul-20
I, too, have those nightmares of longbow misses on giant bucks. I only have one over 200" (210 net NT) with a longbow. And I blew an opportunity on one clean typical I watched for a week and believe was in the 210 net range. But honest 190- 200" muleys are very rare even in places that grow big muleys. As with elk, I believe most people way overestimate the score of muleys on the hoof, getting wrapped up in width and thinking they are bigger than they are.

But as with the taking of any animals of trophy quality, so much depends on location, knowledge, and ability. Put your average treestand whitetail hunter on the animals Ulmer, Roy Grace, and Whipranger kill, and the buck would be long gone before an arrow gets loosed.

From: badbull
24-Jul-20
Jaq, I have wondered what percentage of bow killed mulies might make P and Y. I would think it to be a pretty low number. Saw a post once saying that just about any 4x4 would make it (a statement that I cannot say I agree with in general public bowhunting). Like to know what your gut says regarding these thoughts if you care to comment....... Badbull

From: Treeline
24-Jul-20
Have screwed up on my share of monsters. Still looking to close the deal on one over 200” with my longbow....

From: Twinetickler
24-Jul-20

Twinetickler's embedded Photo
This one isn't too smart, 15 yards off the road not a care in the world
Twinetickler's embedded Photo
This one isn't too smart, 15 yards off the road not a care in the world

From: Jaquomo
24-Jul-20
Bad bull, I think a good number are available in many areas would make 145 minimum, just like a lot of whitetails make the 125 minimum in many areas. Killing them is a different story. Now, as a percentage? Not sure because many "nice" 4 point bucks measure less than 145, just as many "nice" 6x bulls honestly net less than P&Y minimum. And a lot of really good looking muleys in some areas are 3x3 or 3x4 or 4x4 with weak G-2 splits. I see some good bucks like that every year that won't net 145.

Anyone who thinks "just about any 4x4" would make it hasn't put a tape on very many. But again, it depends on location, just like whitetails. Kansas prairie bucks have a much higher chance of scoring more than 145 than Colorado mountain bucks, IMO. And I get to see a lot of CO mountain bucks where I live.

Scores on big muleys are deceiving. Sometimes it's due to the tendency to grow a lot of character ("trash" to some) as they get older, which can deduct a lot of inches. One of my best bucks barely nets 146 as a 28" 5x8 because of the side-to-side anomalies, the weak back fork and the three extra longish points on that one side.

From: Jaquomo
24-Jul-20
Twinetickler, I don't think that young buck would net 145.

From: Jaquomo
24-Jul-20

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Here's one. This is my buck from last year. A hair over 28" wide, carries the mass all the way through. Would be a buck of a lifetime for most eastern hunters. He nets 153...

From: Twinetickler
24-Jul-20

Twinetickler's embedded Photo
Twinetickler's embedded Photo
Haha he has a short life to live. On a LE unit with guys watching him night and morning.

From: Ambush
24-Jul-20
And jaq's buck just goes to show that a 150" plus buck IS a very nice buck. And many, many hunters that saw that buck heading straight away over the hill would swear it was 190"!!

From: Jaquomo
24-Jul-20
That dropper is interesting, but for a LE buck (assuming Utah?) he doesn't look all that special. Weak everywhere. Am I missing something?

From: Treeline
24-Jul-20
Agree with Lou. Love the character but that buck won’t make T or NT P&Y.

That buck needs another 2-4 years...

From: Jaquomo
24-Jul-20
Ambush shoots real bucks. I shoot the wannabes!

From: Drnaln
24-Jul-20
All mature critters are tough to hunt. Where, when, how, luck & who is hunting all factor in. Some guys are just better hunters then others. You can't shoot a great critter if you already have your tag punched on a smaller animal. Some guys are scared to go home with an unused tag. Other guys are tickled just to shoot any critter & others only target the best animal they can find!

From: badbull
25-Jul-20
Jaq, thanks for elaborating on my wondering as your valued experience dovetails with what l have learned about these hardy buggers. BTW, great mule deer story you posted last year with that late season Colorado buck that any bowhunter would be more than pleased to harvest. Your comments sure ring true ln my experience and also are very educational.... Badbull

From: Twinetickler
25-Jul-20
That pic was 3 weeks ago and not a very good pic. He will absolutely finish over P&Y

From: Trophyhill
25-Jul-20
For me, giant mulies are definitely the toughest. Because I haven't killed one. Yet. I pretty much am on some giants every January hunt I've been able to attend. They are easy to find during the rut. Getting past all those prying eyes for a bow shot in open country is the tough part.

25-Jul-20
I’ll reiterate what I posted above. I won’t insult people by saying their favorite animal is easier to kill.

It’s too subjective. I have Whitetails in my yard every day and really nice bucks in my pastures every day. I haven’t killed a buck on my property in years. I let them grow for kids and relatives to hunt.

Does that mean their stupid because I find them easy to kill on my particular piece. Not at all.

I still have never killed a very large Mule Deer.

So for me they are much harder to kill.

Any one that calls a REAL mature mule deer stupid must not be hunting where I have been.

I’ll also say again. There are far fewer trophy MD on the planet than WT. So that alone makes them a more challenging animal.

The market also proves this out, WT hunts for mature deer are a dime a dozen and 1/3 the cost of an equal MD hunt.

From: Rocky D
25-Jul-20
Jaq, why would you even compare your average whitetail hunter and it does had add salient co. That is quite condescending! All that your example actually proves is that if people dedicate the time, resources, and concentrate on areas where big mule deer inhabit. I bet the majority of the deer killed by your three amigos were killed in Arizona, Utah, and Nevada!

“To me, theophylline is a type of drug known as a bronchodilator...?”

Jake, I didn’t know that I offended you with my comments but this is really out of character for you so I will disregard the comment.

Altitude, the odds of killing killing a giant whitetail is a really difficult in Michigan which doesn’t typically produce giants in significant numbers! So, your analogy doesn’t really add to the degree of difficulty to kill add to the degree of difficulty of killing a giant mule deer!

Actually, I have not even said what I consider the the toughest. This started with me asking about Frank Noska’s article in Bowhunter magazine where considers the toughest.

The better question for you westerners is how much time have actually spent hunting giant whitetails?

25-Jul-20
Thanks for making my point Rocky. Big WTs are hard to kill around me and I think big Mule Deer are harder to find

From: Grey Ghost
25-Jul-20

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
I’ve hunted both Mulies and Whitetails in CO and KS for years. I’d give the nod to Big Mulies for the more difficult to kill with a bow for a few reasons.

First, there’s fewer of them. Mulie numbers in general have dropped significantly in the last few decades, while whitetails have faired better.

Second, much of the habitat that big Mulies live in isn’t as bow hunter friendly as whitetail habitat. They’re more of an open country animal, whether it be high alpine meadows, sage brush flats, or prairie grasslands, they like open spaces that are inherently hard to hunt with a bow.

Third, Mulies by nature aren’t as pattern-able as whitetails. They may consistently show up in a general area, but they aren’t as religious about their movements as whitetails are.

Fourth, mulies are more of a herd animal, like elk, especially during the rut. A big mulie buck will usually have several does around him most of the time. And the does rarely miss much.

Anyway, that’s my take. And for your viewing pleasure here’s a buck I photographed this morning while scouting for elk.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
25-Jul-20
Rocky, I mentioned this because of the variables I listed and the example you gave. If an average whitetail hunter (likely overweight and out of shape, sits day after day in treestands over food plots or bait) puts in enough time in a place where it whitetails live - one of the Lakosky farms for instance, he will pattern and kill a big whitetail. Take that same guy to mule deer country and turn him loose, and lets see what happens.

Guys like whipranger, Grey Ghost and I spend a LOT of time and energy hunting in open country places where big muleys live. Lots of miles on the ground and collective knowledge. I know GG has killed some great bucks but not sure about 200"+. Between whipranger and I we have exactly two. Compare that to the serious whitetail hunters in Iowa and Kansas and their trophy rooms. Different animals different skill sets, different variables. Not an apples-to-apples comparison in any way.

I haven't spent much time hunting big whitetails because sitting in a tree for days on end holds no appeal to me. I did it a little 35 years ago, and it was boring as hell.

I think GG is right on the money. However, during gun season, giant muleys are infinitely easier because they are no match for long range rifles.

From: Grey Ghost
25-Jul-20
Lou,

I have a handful in the 180-190 range, but I’ve never killed a 200”-plus. I did hunt a 205” buck for 3 years, until ultimately I found him dead, presumably of old age, or too much rutting. I found him the morning after he died. There wasn’t a mark on him. He just laid down and went to greener pastures.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
25-Jul-20
I remember the story and that buck. It was a cool story, no matter what.

25-Jul-20
If we are talking spot and stalk, which is how the vast majority kill mule deer. I’d say they are tougher to kill. That one important variable being that there are less of them compared to Whitetails (like others have said).

That being said... it’s hard to compare these two species evenly due to many other variables. You can’t say that a fat lazy tree stand hunter, hunting over a pile of corn is even remotely a fair comparison.

Many areas in the Midwest, Whitetails can be spot and stalked and made to look easy. Take that same hunt style and go to the big woods (anywhere) and attempt it, and the challenge is multiplied many times.

I just think all this back and forth trying to say one species is harder than the other is again, very subjective (like others have said). Hard to compare on an even plain due to terrain, amount of animals and many other factors.

The thing that rings as a harder hunt (to me), if we are attempting to compare evenly (as fair as we can be), would be a S&S giant mule deer, due to terrain and the lesser numbers. <— something I didn’t take into consideration in my earlier post. BUT... and my only type of WT hunting I know is from a tree stand, I’d say killing a giant WT in the area I hunt in SE Oklahoma, S&S, would be a VERY tough task as well. JMO

I’d bet if old Steve Grace was here, he’d be debating his giant Alabama deer in big woods would be tougher. :)

From: t-roy
25-Jul-20

t-roy's embedded Photo
t-roy's embedded Photo
Don’t see what the big deal is on these 200”+ mulies. I killed one the first week that I hunted them. Not bad for an overweight and out of shape midwestern treestand hunter, although it WAS on a food plot (1000 acre canola field). S-n-S. Comparing most whitetail hunting properties to one of Lakosky’s farms is a stretch, at best. Not saying big whitetails are harder to kill than a big muley, (probably aren’t) but the condescension that it is less of a challenge or an accomplishment in killing a big mature whitetail, and is akin to waiting for them to walk by and club them in the head, is a bit tiresome. If you think big whitetails are easily patterned, you obviously haven’t hunted them much.

From: Rocky D
25-Jul-20
jaq, your arrogance kills me with comments like this “ If an average whitetail hunter (likely overweight and out of shape, sits day after day in treestands over food plots or bait) puts in enough time in a place where it whitetails live - one of the Lakosky farms for instance, he will pattern and kill a big whitetail. Take that same guy to mule deer country and turn him loose, and lets see what happens.” How many average guys get to hunt any farm like the Lakosky farm. most of my comments were directed towards public land. I was saying that their are more public land opportunities at giant mule deer than public land opportunities at giant whitetails. As far as setting on bait most states do not allow it on public ground. Comments like this “ Guys like whipranger, Grey Ghost and I spend a LOT of time and energy hunting in open country places where big muleys live. Lots of miles on the ground and collective knowledge.“ This is just another example of your elitist mentality. I have been elk hunting six times with one being a solo backpack and my annual public land whitetail hunt is far more rigorous. I have been by far more successful hunting the West and Alaska than I have hunting mature whitetails in the East. Mule deer never really excited me even when I lived in Arizona. I did shoot one with Mike Ukrainetz because a friend wanted me to go with him. My one and only guided hunt. My first year in Arizona I won the local big buck contest even though I had to compete with you superior westerners. That contest was based off field dressed weight but he did manage to score 101 5/8ths. He was measured by an official P&Y scorer who hailed from Mississippi and who at that time had three 100 inch coues deer in the record book. So much for those coues deer being so tough. Poking insults at people does not explain the degree of difficulty to kill a certain animal.

From: Chief 419
25-Jul-20
You really shouldn't compare hunting whitetails to mulies and vise versa. Whitetails in the Midwest aren't nearly as skittish as they are in Mississippi and Alabama. I hunted whitetails down in Mexico and those deer were dumb as a brick. I walked right up to the feed pen when two does were eating and videoed them. All they did was look at me. I duck hunted with my bow on that trip. We threw some corn out on the side of the cattle tank. A doe came along and started eating the corn. I got out of the blind and chased her off. When I got back in the blind, she was already back on the corn. I chased her off three times, couldn't get rid of her and gave up from being out of breath. There are just too many variables to compare hunting the two species.

From: Jaquomo
25-Jul-20
As I said, there are too many variables to compare the two. Rocky, don't get your panties in a wad. Look at how the vast majority of big whitetails are killed and the facts speak for themselves. Degree of difficulty is based on so many variables that comparing any animal to another is futile. A guy who can kill big whitetails on the ground, spot-stalk in northern big woods is supremely skilled. Compare that to the place in Kansas where Pat and Co. kill big whitetails over corn piles in Kansas, and that, too, is apples and oranges. That's my point.

From: whipranger
25-Jul-20
I feel that Greys post with the 4 points is spot on. Whitetail guys will throw in the thick woods To argue their side that still doesn’t compare to the dark timer and aspen covered rockys. Where big muleys will live how would you hunt them. They don’t trail, or have a lush field to feed on. Standswithaknifes post was Bowhuntings hardest hunt. The key word being HUNT not sit and wait. Pout all you want it takes little to no skill or animal/terrain knowledge. To be a decent whitetail shooter. I work with a kid who liked my stories and wanted to start hunting. I explained to him what to look for and how to set up. Now he put his time in the stand for sure I think last year he sat 50+ days. In his 3 years of hunting he has 5 bucks from 128” to 146”. He’s seen and missed bigger.

From: Twinetickler
25-Jul-20
Both can seem impossible when you are not hunting where a few live. I would say both are equally tough, just different type of hunts. I think even finding a legit 200" muley buck on public land, DIY is dang tough let alone putting an arrow in him. I think the same would go for a 180" whitetail on public land DIY. There just isn't many of either of them on public land. Private farms/land is another story imo

25-Jul-20
Try spot and stalk on any age/gender whitetail in the eastern mountains of...say...Appalachia. Private or public don’t matter. I’ve killed almost 200 whitetail in our hills and hollers, hunting both private and public.

I’ve spot and stalked two bucks that I was able to bow kill during, over the years. Both were within forty yards. Conditions were prime scout days - super wet leaves from heavy rains. These were both scout days, where I carried my bow during pre-rut whilst looking for some favored travel routes to intercept does. The first one was bedded behind a huge oak and the wind was right. He didn’t see me till it was too late because of that big tree. The second was a buck I picked up trail on. He was feeding when he got shot, and was downhill of me in some thicker vegetation.

Absolutely ideal circumstances. There was absolutely nothing shy of luck on my side in both cases.

From: whipranger
25-Jul-20
No matter what or where you hunt nothing wants to die. Even a big dumb O’l cow hauls ass when you encounter one in the woods. And any thing spot and stalked is a far greater challenge, than sitting or still hunting. You’re on their playing field and they have a huge advantage.

From: shooter
25-Jul-20
Some very interesting points here and some good reading. Lots of experience talking as well. Bowhunters are such a passionate group, you guys are a great bunch. Maybe what we really need to get into, is what is more fun to bowhunt, mule deer or the whitetail?

From: Chief 419
26-Jul-20
Shooter - Hands down mulie’s are more fun to hunt. There’s nothing more fun than spot and stalk on the ground.

From: shooter
26-Jul-20
I'll agree to that Chief. If you look at the range that mule deer cover, from the Canadian prairies to the Mexican mountains and deserts, and then take a look at all of the habitats that whitetails call home, how can one really compare hunting them fairly? I live in great whitetail country and would gladly cut up my tree stands to be able to hunt mulies every year.

From: Rocky D
26-Jul-20
Jaq, my point was that it would be more difficult to kill a public land booner whitetail than it would be to kill a public land booner mule deer! There are no public land whitetail hunts that would compare to the quality of some public land muley tags In Colorado, Arizona, Utah, or Nevada. Even though they are limited! If you were diligent you realistically could draw several high quality mule deer tags over a 15 year period. This is probably the strategy of the three hunters that you mentioned!

From: whipranger
26-Jul-20
What hurts the majority of eastern hunters is the lack of huntable ground. How many of you have access to 500 or more acres. Now I know some public areas are bigger I live next to one that’s 11000, but no matter if your on public or private who wouldn’t want to have a bigger tract to hunt. All the hunting I do outside Nebraska is on 100% public land. When I go Muley hunting I’m hunting every inch of ground I can. I’ll spend days covering thousands of acres. And probably only see a handful deer. If Muley hunters were confined to small acreage it would be the same as the whitetail hunters success. The guys with access to good big tracts would do better and consistently have better deer than the guys on small tracts that occasionally have the chance at a passing giant. I guess what I’m trying to say is if the East was open for people to hunt like the west more guys would have chances at great bucks.

From: RD in WI
26-Jul-20
Every year, I read numerous articles detailing how some very young or otherwise inexperienced hunters are killing some super big whitetail bucks. Or, they tell of a hunter who reacts to a trail camera photo sent to his/her cell phone, hustling to a neighboring state, and thusly killing a trophy whitetail that is finally conducting daytime movement due to rut drive. Or they detail stories of a mammoth buck shot over a kill plot. After reading a recent article, it seemed that the deer's exact bedding spot was known to the hunter and had not changed over several years (NAW, Aug. 2020, p. 48). I have no experience with mule deer but I think they may be harder given their often isolated and remote locations and the more difficult methods by which they are hunted.

From: Jaquomo
26-Jul-20
RD for the win.

From: Twinetickler
26-Jul-20
Let's see them! I would love to see PUBLIC muley kills and PUBLIC whitetail kills. Compare how many are posted up and size. Dont really care to see private kills since most average Joe guys wont hunt it. Do it yourself public muley kills vs the same for whitetail. Start a new thread maybe?

From: Chief 419
26-Jul-20
Couldn't agree more Shooter. There just isn't a good way to compare animals. Too many variables. I've hunted whitetails all my life all over the country and the best I've done is a 154". A trophy animal is difficult no matter where it lives.

From: whipranger
26-Jul-20
Like I posted earlier you can’t compare the public whitetail vs public Muley. Once you head east of I-25 to the Atlantic 99% of the land is private as opposed to going west where there is huge tracts of public literally hundreds of thousands of acres. There’s probably more public in just Colorado than everything East of Mississippi River combined (I have no doubt someone will try to check that out to prove me wrong I’m just throwing it out there) The majority of Muleys are shot on public while the majority of whitetails is on private because the public just isn’t there.

From: Chief 419
26-Jul-20
Spot on Whip.

26-Jul-20
If you’re talking about spot and stalk, the nod for easier certainly goes to western styles of hunting.

This conversation keeps getting wires crossed over what context we are talking.

To Jaq’s, and others, point...sure, tree stand killing a whitetail is easier than spot and stalk hunting out west. Absolutely, I say.

It’s not even fair to compare the two. It’s totally different; apples to oranges, guys.

I’d much rather spot and stalk hunt out west than tree stand hunt too. Treestand stuff has gotten more and more boring to me having hunted coues, mulie, blacktail, elk, and antelope now.

I feel way more confident that I will kill a mature animal on a western trip than I do hunting the small 40acres of private at home, or the 150,000acres of public. Way way way more confident.

From: Rocky D
26-Jul-20
RD, you live in the number one B&C state in the nation so how many booners have you killed and were they on public ground?

From: Ollie
26-Jul-20
Most guys I know say a big mulie is a very difficult animal to get. But in part it is due to declining mulie populations and the remoteness of the range where many live. A farm mulie is not as difficult to take as one living in a wilderness area. There were a heck of a lot more mulies back in the 1960-70's and taking one out west was not that big of a deal. A lot tougher today. In my opinion whitetails are one of the easiest animals to get. Not because they are any less smart but because they live and thrive in most states in the lower USA and it is not that difficult to find some quality whitetails to hunt not too far from home. Not so with mulies.

From: RD in WI
26-Jul-20
Rocky - You are correct, I live in Wisconsin. I have only lived here since 2013, after a career in the Army, and I don't think I have ever seen a Boone and Crockett whitetail in the wild, except for on the Ammo Supply Point (ASP) in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. So, I am probably a bad example of a Wisconsin resident. That said, your question did not address the inference I made in my post. I am okay with being wrong about the topic of the post, if that is the case, but I do think my evidence and reasoning had some merit.

27-Jul-20
I think some of the muck was created cause of the thread title. If it would have been titled is a HIGH COUNTRY Muley the hardest. Because of the mountain hunting aspect at altitude and steep remoteness...complete game changer...being chewed up and s@@t out through the brutal nature of the country will test any will....plus the rareness of the desired critter and nervous wits. I have seen only a few legit over 200 incher in the high country ever. I did see one world class GIANT one evening when hunting elk in a wilderness area. I was watching a really nice 180ish buck with kickers and stickers and such browse on a hill side the GIANT strolled out he made that deer look like a two point. Clean deep forked LOOONG tined perfectly symmetrical 4x4 (5x5 with four inch brow tines) the only comparison I could think of was the Burris WR rifle buck. He was 1/3 larger in head and body of that other buck which was a damn nice buck...they are out there...but rare ...so rare

From: Rocky D
27-Jul-20
RD, sorry for putting you on the spot! I did not address your point because it was an over the top generalization. Congratulations on your retirement in the North! I to am a Army retiree and probably in my last year as a civilian who works on ft Benning.

The vast majority of those kills were gun kills not on on public ground. You have approximately 1.9M deer in the DNA epicenter with nearly 500K hunters chasing them so mere coincidence, serendipity, and some taken by skilled Hunters. I hope that you chose your county carefully unless you were RD, sorry for putting you on the spot! I did not address your point because it was an over the top generalization.

The vast majority of those kills were gun kills not on on public ground. You have approximately 1.9M deer in the DNA epicenter chased by nearly 600K hunters so the math is not hard to figure that most of those are occurrences by mere serendipity!

Those numbers point out the whitetails amazing ability to adapt and thrive even under tremendous pressure! Now what those numbers do not tell you is how many giants err killed on public ground and whether or not it was a gun or bow kill!

From: Rocky D
27-Jul-20
Ollie, you are in Iowa and you absolutely love in the best state to kill a giant on public ground.

Adventure, many animals live in rigorous terrain but that alone did not get them included into the conversation!

All, here is my point! I think if you chose to hunt a giant of either species on public ground you could be more successful chasing the giant muley than the whitetail. I can name countless tags in several western states that could provide that opportunity. Now that is not the case with a giant whitetail.

If someone has a public land Whitetail that reverberates with the same thunder as do several areas for mule deer do. In the whitetail world we do not have public tag that drives hunters to pass on 160 class bucks but they are several mule deer tags that if drawn most hunters would up their expectation to 180 inches!

From: Jaquomo
27-Jul-20
The "hardest" hunt I could imagine would be sitting in a tree for 20 straight days daylight to dark.

From: Medicinemann
27-Jul-20
Rocky D, PM sent

From: Treeline
27-Jul-20
I’m with Lou.

Sitting in a tree or blind is pure torture.

Luckily, I have shot some good enough whitetails that I don’t have to waste my time hunting them any more. They are good eating and I may occasionally go shoot some does for meat but do not have a burning desire to numb my brain in a tree to kill a big one.

Will focus on mostly spot and stalk or run and gun mountain hunts till my legs give out then think about focusing on sit and wait type hunting.

From: Rocky D
27-Jul-20
Jaq, whitetails are my preferred animal of choice so I endure. My whitetail hunts are nothing like what you see on TV! Sorry, for getting defensive but I felt that your comments were not objective or anything that you would have included in one of your articles that you write. The Lakosky comment was just too much! You, better than most know just how hard it is to get on a farm of that quality! Like mule deer, many people Over estimate their score. Many of the Lakosky, Kisky, and Drury deer do not score enough to make the B&C record book. As a matter of fact it took Michael Waddell years to kill a booner hunting the very best property that their is to hunt.

From: Jaquomo
27-Jul-20
One shortcoming when writing articles for publication is the inability to yank chains. That's what the Bowsite is for! ;-)

27-Jul-20
As a rule you have to out-think a whitetail and out work a muley.

From: Rocky D
27-Jul-20
Several posters have taken booner class mule deer on public land.

I was wondering how many has taken a booner class whitetail on public land?

From: Jaquomo
27-Jul-20
It was interesting that Frank Noska's difficulty rankings (upon which this OP was predicated) didn't factor-in public vs. private, guided vs. DIY, compound vs trad...

From: Thornton
27-Jul-20
I've hunted and killed both and I've encountered really big ones of both species that seemed untouchable. I've also watched near 200" of both species become very careless on the right day of the rut.

27-Jul-20
Rocky, No one has questioned your hunting skills because you believe WTs are more difficult. The post was MD above tree line. Not someone’s back 40 vs public.

Start that as a separate debate.

It would be a short debate . As I think everyone agrees managed private land Animals of any species is a different degree of difficulty than public.

From: Tilzbow
27-Jul-20
From the OP:

I’m pretty sure late mulies are the hardest animal in North America to hunt in the wild. I’m talking above timberline giant bucks.. just my thoughts for the morning..

Note the key words "late" and "above timberline". This would be the hardest hunt in the world given the fact that nearly all "above timberline" country is going to be covered with several feet of snow by late season.

Other than that, my thought is truly large mule deer are extremely hard to kill with a bow. I consider a truly huge muley to have over 200" of antler. Most of Ulmer's bucks have that WOW! factor. The majority of the bucks pictured on this thread don't have that heart stopping, holy crap that thing is huge factor. I've seen a few of these bucks, stalked several, had most disappear totally at some point during the stalk while their smaller brothers were still there, have gotten within archery range of a few but I've never actually shot at one. I always thought it was fairly easy to get within rifle range of a huge buck but once inside of 80 things got really dicey. Then, even if I could close the gap to 50 or under getting off a shot undetected turned out to be impossible on the handful of monsters I've been close to. They always seemed to sense something was wrong and exit, sometimes unseen, while the bucks they were bedded with ultimately asked for an arrow.

I hunted mulies for my first 10 years of bowhunting, only killed a few and none were past 160. Once I started branching out to other game my success went up above 50% on those other species and I found it much easier to kill things like elk when hunting in good areas.

My whitetail experience is limited to one hunt and I found sitting in a tree boring and I didn't kill anything. That said based on my very limited experience with whitetails I can't compare the two.

From: Rocky D
27-Jul-20
Altitude, this was not about me. I liked the topic. I liked Frank’s article. Besides, my skills doesn’t compare to most of these guys skills! I drifted a bit when I got to really thinking about the degree of difficulty.

Love the Bowsite crew! where else can you have this much experience in one bag. I normally just look, listen, and learn.

From: Treeline
27-Jul-20
I know of B&C class white tails that have been bow-killed in public land in Eastern Colorado, walk-in and public land in Kansas and public land in Nebraska. It is definitely possible!

It can be done on public land, if you are lucky enough to have a B&C buck come by in range of your stand!

From: Treeline
27-Jul-20
Tilz, he corrected himself in his next post to mean “large”, not late.

Easy resolution for the deer species would be to review the P&Y entries. Pick a score for each species and then add up the entries. Heck, throw in Coues, Colombian and Sitka blacktails for a full representation of deer species. Even though there are a lot of big bucks out there that never get entered, enough are to get a good representation.

A very interesting statistic would be P&Y mule deer by month killed.

Pope and Young does have a database search tool, if you’re interested, that would really help crunch the numbers.

27-Jul-20
The most frustrating hunt I ever did was spot and stalk mule deer in the AZ desert, during rut in early Jan. Yes, they were rutting hard in SW AZ that week.

Glass from a knoll and stalk them in the flats.

I killed a young 3x3, but it was soooooo difficult!

I’d love to learn from somebody successful at that this Jan., FYI. Be willing to pay for your time!

Ha

From: Tilzbow
27-Jul-20
Treeline, I see that now. Thanks for clarifying for me and everyone else so my post doesn't confuse anyone. I'd read his clarification once but forgot.

Regarding P&Y, at 145 inches I don't think a P&Y qualifies for a "giant" animal by any means. A nice, representative animal sure, but I'd lean toward B&C with a minimum of 190 when trying to qualify a true "giant" and even that falls short of the thought of many that a truly giant mule typical deer will exceed 200".

I just checked B&C and there were only two mule deer over 190 accepted the past 6 months. There were more B&C Desert Sheep than typical mule deer accepted. They may not be the hardest or smartest but they're probably one of the rarest.

27-Jul-20
The most frustrating hunt I ever did was spot and stalk mule deer in the AZ desert, during rut in early Jan. Yes, they were rutting hard in SW AZ that week.

Glass from a knoll and stalk them in the flats.

I killed a young 3x3, but it was soooooo difficult!

I’d love to learn from somebody successful at that this Jan., FYI. Be willing to pay for your time!

Ha

27-Jul-20
FYI... late was supposed to be large in the original post and I cannot edit the thread in my phone...

From: Treeline
27-Jul-20
The P&Y trophy search function will let you screen based on score.

You could plug in the B&C scores for all the species as a minimum and just do a count.

Heck, I may just buy a subscription to run the stats...

From: Rocky D
27-Jul-20
There looks to be about 64 whitetails entered in B&C in the last twenty years from Colorado. There are many more whitetails than mule deer as there many more whitetail hunters but even with all the pressure they continue to expand their range and are producing more trophy racks.

I wish there were more people who had extensive experience with both species on public ground that were posting. I guess I need a mule deer tag.

From: Rocky D
27-Jul-20
There looks to be about 64 whitetails entered in B&C in the last twenty years from Colorado. There are many more whitetails than mule deer as there many more whitetail hunters but even with all the pressure they continue to expand their range and are producing more trophy racks.

I wish there were more people who had extensive experience with both species on public ground that were posting. I guess I need a mule deer tag.

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