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Montana Blacks Gold sights - Junk
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Nick Muche 02-Aug-20
carcus 02-Aug-20
Bowfreak 02-Aug-20
Mule Power 02-Aug-20
Bou'bound 02-Aug-20
LINK 02-Aug-20
Ucsdryder 02-Aug-20
Bowboy 02-Aug-20
Gator 02-Aug-20
Pyrannah 02-Aug-20
Nick Muche 02-Aug-20
lewis 02-Aug-20
midwest 02-Aug-20
midwest 02-Aug-20
midwest 02-Aug-20
midwest 02-Aug-20
midwest 02-Aug-20
cnelk 02-Aug-20
c5ken 02-Aug-20
Predeter 02-Aug-20
Timex 02-Aug-20
midwest 02-Aug-20
Brotsky 02-Aug-20
'Ike' (Phone) 02-Aug-20
Medicinemann 02-Aug-20
0hndycp 02-Aug-20
Pop-r 02-Aug-20
Nick Muche 02-Aug-20
TREESTANDWOLF 02-Aug-20
TEmbry 02-Aug-20
KsRancher 02-Aug-20
SBH 02-Aug-20
Teeton 03-Aug-20
0hndycp 03-Aug-20
Kurt 03-Aug-20
Brotsky 03-Aug-20
Bou'bound 03-Aug-20
x-man 03-Aug-20
Kurt 03-Aug-20
caribou77 03-Aug-20
jdee 03-Aug-20
cnelk 03-Aug-20
butcherboy 03-Aug-20
Nick Muche 03-Aug-20
Predeter 03-Aug-20
midwest 03-Aug-20
jdee 03-Aug-20
Bowbender 03-Aug-20
'Ike' (Phone) 03-Aug-20
Roper 03-Aug-20
midwest 03-Aug-20
pav 04-Aug-20
Bowbender 04-Aug-20
midwest 04-Aug-20
cnelk 04-Aug-20
SaddleReaper 04-Aug-20
kota-man 04-Aug-20
WV Mountaineer 04-Aug-20
Ucsdryder 04-Aug-20
Bullhound 04-Aug-20
TD 04-Aug-20
LostNwoods 04-Aug-20
jdee 04-Aug-20
Nick Muche 04-Aug-20
APauls 06-Aug-20
sticksender 06-Aug-20
WapitiBob 06-Aug-20
Nick Muche 06-Aug-20
wildwilderness 06-Aug-20
Kurt 06-Aug-20
APauls 06-Aug-20
BoggsBowhunts 22-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 22-Oct-23
KSflatlander 22-Oct-23
HUNT MAN 22-Oct-23
Dale06 22-Oct-23
butcherboy 22-Oct-23
Straight Shooter 22-Oct-23
Gus 22-Oct-23
carcus 22-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 22-Oct-23
Straight Shooter 22-Oct-23
Blood 22-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 22-Oct-23
Blood 22-Oct-23
Quinn @work 22-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 22-Oct-23
Blood 22-Oct-23
Matt 22-Oct-23
MA-PAdeerslayer 22-Oct-23
Blood 22-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 22-Oct-23
Blood 22-Oct-23
Blood 22-Oct-23
Blood 22-Oct-23
Scott/IL 22-Oct-23
Matt 22-Oct-23
Pop-r 23-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 23-Oct-23
pav 23-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 23-Oct-23
midwest 23-Oct-23
Quinn @work 23-Oct-23
JTreeman 23-Oct-23
Brotsky 23-Oct-23
bigeasygator 23-Oct-23
Blood 23-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 23-Oct-23
BOHNTR 23-Oct-23
midwest 23-Oct-23
Jethro 23-Oct-23
BOHNTR 23-Oct-23
BOHNTR 23-Oct-23
BOHNTR 23-Oct-23
Blood 23-Oct-23
HDE 23-Oct-23
JohnMC 23-Oct-23
Native Okie 23-Oct-23
caribou77 23-Oct-23
MA-PAdeerslayer 23-Oct-23
MoBowhunter 27-Oct-23
808bowhunter 27-Oct-23
Coondog 27-Oct-23
cnelk 27-Oct-23
HDE 27-Oct-23
BoggsBowhunts 28-Oct-23
Coondog 28-Oct-23
midwest 28-Oct-23
Franzen 29-Oct-23
HDE 29-Oct-23
bigswivle 29-Oct-23
Boreal 29-Oct-23
From: Nick Muche
02-Aug-20

Nick Muche's embedded Photo
Nick Muche's embedded Photo
Second time in a month this has happened in the same exact spot. For 300$ it would be nice if they used some durable material. Doesn’t really help my mood when my sight housing falls off while moving in on a 2,000 animal herd of caribou either. I’ll never use one of their sights again.

From: carcus
02-Aug-20
That sucks Nick, get a axcel armortech, waaaaaay better sight IMO, the fibers on the pins are totally protected, ive owed a few black golds and I didn't like them, had the fibers pull out of the pin while chasing elk!

From: Bowfreak
02-Aug-20
That is unacceptable. Many say Spot Hogg is heavy, this is why.

From: Mule Power
02-Aug-20
I guess their awesome warranty doesn’t help in the middle of a stalk!

From: Bou'bound
02-Aug-20
Crazy coincidence. Nothing but decades of perfect performance here.

From: LINK
02-Aug-20
That sucks. Sometimes durable means heavy. Spot Hogg sights are built like tanks.

From: Ucsdryder
02-Aug-20
Oh you better be careful nick! The MBG leg humpers on this sight will not be happy with your post. My buddy has a cbe engage. That thing is awesome! I have a hogg father. Both blow mbg out of the water. I would go to an engage but I like the double pin single post.

From: Bowboy
02-Aug-20
I had that happen in 2019 when I bought a new bow. I've been shooting MBG for years with no issues. It must be a manufacture process flaw. There customer service is awesome when I dealt with them. Hope everything works out!

From: Gator
02-Aug-20
Never an issue with MBG since beginning to use them years ago.

From: Pyrannah
02-Aug-20
Same happened to me

Went to sport Hogg, so much better

From: Nick Muche
02-Aug-20

Nick Muche's embedded Photo
Nick Muche's embedded Photo
No impact that I’m aware of. Was just crawling around for a few hours yesterday and then on my walk back to the truck after a stalk it just fell off. Very disappointed.

Their customer service has always been great, not disputing that, but that doesn’t help you in the field when high end equipment breaks.

Even Leuko tape couldn’t solve this one :)

From: lewis
02-Aug-20
I sure hate to see that I’ve had great luck with mbgs for a long time That really sucks would love to know the cause.Good luck Lewis

From: midwest
02-Aug-20
Don't use a cheater bar when tightening the dovetail, Nick. ;-)

That sucks. The weak point of that dovetail is the sharp corner at the bottom of the angled cut where it broke (obviously). A dovetail cutter with a radius to create a fillet at that point would make it much a more robust dovetail connection.

There is a grain to the extruded aluminum that component is manufactured from and a sharp, inside corner, especially under 90 deg, is a perfect opportunity to crack and fail. That's why anything structural in aerospace will rarely have a sharp inside corner. Always a fillet.

From: midwest
02-Aug-20

midwest's embedded Photo
midwest's embedded Photo
midwest's embedded Photo
Mountain Lite Sight
midwest's embedded Photo
Mountain Lite Sight
Another weak point on that sight is the cut shown here. I noticed on my new Mountain Lite sight, this cut doesn't go all the way down to the top of the male dovetail like on Nick's sight and my older ones. This makes it stronger but is still a square cut in the bottom and should be a full radius.

From: midwest
02-Aug-20
ohio, I don't think you could get file small enough to take out the entire sharp corner and have any dovetail left.

From: midwest
02-Aug-20

midwest's embedded Photo
midwest's embedded Photo
Here's a good shot showing the sharp inside corners of the female dovetail. You can see why it would be easy to fail here. Especially, if you get a little rammy on the hex wrench. ;-)

Put some blue loctite on the screw and just snug it.

From: midwest
02-Aug-20
Yes, and over tightening turns that male dovetail into a log splitter.

From: cnelk
02-Aug-20
Midwest is spot on. Aluminum and dovetails are not a good combo.

It’s combination of poor design and operator error.

Don’t over- tighten any aluminum!

From: c5ken
02-Aug-20
Spot-Hogg

From: Predeter
02-Aug-20
That's crazy and definitely sucks!

I've had a MBG 3 pin slider for 5 years and feel like I've done everything but use it as a hammer. Still going strong.

From: Timex
02-Aug-20
Is it possible it just wasn't completely tightened & just slid out of the dovetail

From: midwest
02-Aug-20
Timex, see his pic? The aluminum is split.

From: Brotsky
02-Aug-20
+1 Nick D, I split mine over tightening it as well and it failed just like Nick M’s. Customer Service told me to not over tighten, just snug. I overdo everything, just my style lol. Trade off for being lightweight I guess.

02-Aug-20
Damn...

From: Medicinemann
02-Aug-20
Nick, ...and I was looking forward to the Monday update of your weekend caribou hunt. I always felt that MBG sights had very good low light features on their sights, but they are not as durable as Spot Hogg sights. I always have two identical bows set -up. If one ever became impaired, I always have a back-up...whether at home or in camp. For me, the perfect sight would be MBG pins and sight housing on a Spot Hogg frame.....durability + good pin visibility even in fading light.

From: 0hndycp
02-Aug-20
Man that sucks.....I’ve shot same MBG 3 pin ascent on 3 different bows for 5+ years. It’s even tumble down about a 40 rock slide.....still rock solid and killing shit! Would never use anything else. Hate to say it, but 2X in same spot can’t be coincidence.

From: Pop-r
02-Aug-20
I've had the same issues with the IQ sight. Such an awesome sight that I love but it's durability for mountain hunting sucks! Weight is everything to these people.

From: Nick Muche
02-Aug-20
Don’t worry Jake, I killed one before it broke. But I missed out on some incredible opportunities today. Bummer.

I’ve had the sight since winter. I haven’t touched that Allen screw since I first sighted everything in.

02-Aug-20
Agree, that totally bites! I've had good reason to stick with them, not so much now :(

From: TEmbry
02-Aug-20
Sucks that has happened twice now. Mine (knock on wood) has been rock solid for 6-7 years now without any issues and I’m almost to Jons level of treatment of gear lol.

Fun weekend regardless! Gotta spread those tags out anyway!

From: KsRancher
02-Aug-20
You guys just made my day worse :) I just got a different bow recently and loved it. Till today. I thought I was getting close to liking it again by the time this evening rolled around. Until I read this thread. When I had the bow set up, I thought I was really doing something special for myself by putting this sight on it.

From: SBH
02-Aug-20
Better fire up that recurve Nick! :)

From: Teeton
03-Aug-20
Ok I'm on my 3rd MBG site and never had a problem with any of them. Now this thread come up and It's got my mind turning. DAM!!

From: 0hndycp
03-Aug-20
I see no reason to change what has worked flawlessly for 5+ years. Feel bad for OP, would suck to have that happen mid hunt, but I love my MBG and have had zero issues with mine. It has bounced around the mountains on 3 different bows for 1000s of hard miles, countless falls, and many bumps and bashes. Good luck this season!

From: Kurt
03-Aug-20
I’d take a very careful look at your MBG sight in the dovetail location where Nick’s failed.

I just looked at my 2016 MBG Ascent Verdict and dang, there is a stress crack starting that is about 1/8” long on the underside of the sight bar, right out of the corner of the dovetail slot that broke out on Nick’s. My 2007 and 2011 sights are both fine, not sliders but identical components. I’d guess an issue with the aluminum alloy on the sight that is in early failure as the bar that fails is interchangeable with the older sights with a lot of use. Anyway, good post Nick! Might have saved me some back country trouble on my 18 day upcoming fly-in hunt.

From: Brotsky
03-Aug-20
You guys that are checking your sights, look for this as well:

The slot Midwest pointed out above with the red arrow, if yours is at all pinched together then you are headed for heartache. You can see how it's pinched a little in Nick's original post. If it pinches like that then it is on its way to failure. That's what MBG told me when mine failed watch that slot to make sure you don't not pinch it together by over tightening or banging it whatever. It's a warning sign.

From: Bou'bound
03-Aug-20
Can we see some better photos of the issue. Love my mbg but want to know what to be watching for

From: x-man
03-Aug-20
I had a few of those kind of failures come back to me when I had my shop open. Most of them happened out west while crawling. Holding your bow in your hand while crawling puts a lot of force on the pin guard when you put your body weight on the bow. It happened enough that I quit selling sights like that to guy's who planned to hunt like that.(not in a tree stand or blind)

It's not just MBG sights, but any sight where the pin guard is held in place via that type of dovetail.

From: Kurt
03-Aug-20
I’d take a very careful look at your MBG sight in the dovetail location where Nick’s failed.

I just looked at my 2016 MBG Ascent Verdict and dang, there is a stress crack starting that is about 1/8” long on the underside of the sight bar, right out of the corner of the dovetail slot that broke out on Nick’s. My 2007 and 2011 sights are both fine, not sliders but identical components. I’d guess an issue with the aluminum alloy on the sight that is in early failure as the bar that fails is interchangeable with the older sights with a lot of use. Anyway, good post Nick! Might have saved me some back country trouble on my 18 day upcoming fly-in hunt.

From: caribou77
03-Aug-20
Good post...crappy timing since I just purchased the mountain lite and have been all excited about it. I completely forgot you can get a fast eddie in the 3, 5 or 7 pin configuration. I own 3 spot hoggs. Have had them since they are out and never a single failure (dull pins though). and I have fallen on straight on my hogg it twice... Hurt me more than my sight.

From: jdee
03-Aug-20
Don’t over tighten them !

From: cnelk
03-Aug-20

cnelk's embedded Photo
cnelk's embedded Photo
This is where mine started to fail. I got it used and had the arm replaced. I keep this one for backup. Just in case.

From: butcherboy
03-Aug-20
I’ve had my single pin MBG since 2013. No issues at all but I don’t tighten the hell out of it either. Just snug. Had spott hog before that and really liked it as well. Been thinking about getting the spott hog vertical pin.

From: Nick Muche
03-Aug-20
Just got off the phone with them, had a great conversation and they’re sending me two new brackets. I guess they’ve been having issues with this piece and they’ve upgraded the material to something stronger. I’ll just keep this sight on my back up bow for now.

From: Predeter
03-Aug-20
Glad to hear they took care of you and have addressed the issue. Although it is a little concerning they were aware of it and this is the first we're hearing of it.

From: midwest
03-Aug-20
Guessing they went from 6061 aluminum to 7075 or 7050. A much better alloy for structural components.

From: jdee
03-Aug-20
They need to send us all who use them new brackets so our Black Gold sights don’t break on a hunt.

From: Bowbender
03-Aug-20
I would have stayed with 6061-T6. While tThe 7xxx series is stronger it tends to be more brittle and susceptible to fatigue failure. And while it's not being subjected to repeated dynamic loading/unloading, it is seeing shocks and vibration on every shot. Any chatter, tooling marks, etc will be an area for fatigue cracks to propogate. Looks like there is already generous radii in the dovetail corners.

03-Aug-20
Good to hear they took care of it Nick...

From: Roper
03-Aug-20
I’m glad I saw this thread because I’m in the market for a new sight and with these elk tags so hard to draw the last thing I want to do is buy junk to put on my bow. Looks like Spot Hogg it is. Thanks for the heads up.

From: midwest
03-Aug-20
"I would have stayed with 6061-T6. While tThe 7xxx series is stronger it tends to be more brittle and susceptible to fatigue failure. And while it's not being subjected to repeated dynamic loading/unloading, it is seeing shocks and vibration on every shot. Any chatter, tooling marks, etc will be an area for fatigue cracks to propogate. Looks like there is already generous radii in the dovetail corners."

I'll have to disagree with you, Bowbender. The military thinks 7075 is best for their M4 carbine and I'm guessing that weapon will see a bit more shock and vibration than the sight on a bow. :-) It's also used widely in the aerospace and defense industry for many of the structural components we manufacture. Different tempers are less brittle.

Not sure where you're seeing a generous radius in the female dovetail. See my pic above....I doubt there's more than a .005 fillet.

From: pav
04-Aug-20
While this thread makes me a bit nervous, I checked both my MBG sights and found not so much as a hint of a stress crack. I'll keep an eye on them, but unless a stress crack shows up, no plans of replacing either of them. No offense intended, but people tend to handle their equipment quite differently. My long time hunting partner and I are night and day different when it comes to equipment care. Sometimes I think he could break an anvil....God love him. Just sayin'......

From: Bowbender
04-Aug-20
The military is using 7075 for the M4 because the mechanical properties are very close to mild steel without the weight. I get the the shock and vibration along with different tempers. Been using 6xxx and 7xxx series aluminum (along with 4142, S7, A2, A6, D2, 17-4PH stainless and a few others) for close to 25 years in machine design and high speed automation.

The dovetail at the pen point "appears" to be fairly generous. Could be an optical illusion. These types of dovetails have been used for years on sights. The fact that Nick had two go south in a month with others having years of service would point to a process (machining) issue, or even a material issue within a particular batch or lot.

From: midwest
04-Aug-20
It's too bad MBG can't send a preset torque driver with the sight to prevent over tightening. lol

From: cnelk
04-Aug-20
^^ Just a small lock washer under the cap screw head would do the trick

From: SaddleReaper
04-Aug-20
Midwest - your last post is probably the root cause (in conjunction with the inherent dovetail design weakness). Side note: whether extruded or machined I'm not sure why that corner would ever be left as a sharp. Considering dovetail cutters come with optional radii or sharps, maybe the tooling was goofed up on a production run....

Back to tightening torque; Any of those small Socket head caps screws - 6-32s or 8-32s should provide sufficient clamping force at the mfg recommended torque in in/lbs, if the screw is sized appropriately for the given function. Its pretty darn easy to exceed those torques when using "PFT" as the arm calibrated measurement... even more so if a T-handle hex is used.

One final thought... crawling across the tundra or wherever (not saying Nick did here) by setting the bow on the housing side of the sight could be generating a pretty significant rotational moment on the weak points. I could see how that could fatigue the joints beyond typical use... or maybe that is typical use.

This entire thread doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy considering I just placed an order for a mountain lite last week - to replace my Pure series sight with the metal drive (unhappy to say the least about that design).

From: kota-man
04-Aug-20
My issue with their sights regarding "too much torque" is that there seems to be a fine line between too tight and it not being tight enough and moving on the sight housing. This forces one to "torque the hell" out of it, especially if you've had one move in the field. (I have...)

04-Aug-20
It broke. It wasn’t abused. It was used. It broke due to poor design, tempering, or poor choice of material. Not because he was crawling with it.

If you’ve never hauled a bow on an arc or mikes in a truck on gravel roads, you might not realize that sight screws need to be tight in order not to come loose. Nobody here is dumb enough to tighten to the point they compromise the integrity of the rest on material suited for the task. In other words, it’s an issue with the material used on the sight. Not the hunter who used the sight.

Believe it or not, companies that charge large amounts of money don’t always get things right. Maybe at their fault or maybe not. But, money doesn’t equate to value nearly as often as implied on these pages.

I’m sure they are great company simply due to their response to the OP. But, $350 doesn’t guarantee that. Customer service does.

From: Ucsdryder
04-Aug-20
Wv, that’s why you buy the most heavy duty, well built piece of gear you can. How many times have you heard, spot Hoggs are built like a tank, but they’re heavy. Anything can fail, but I’ll take my chance on something built like a tank. Same reason I shoot a hamskea trinity. It might fail, but it would take a lot! The extra “weight” of all my spot hogg and hamskea over lighter options is mere ounces.

From: Bullhound
04-Aug-20
hell of a lot of hand ringing over a part that has obviously been good to go for years, and happened to fail for one reason or another in a couple instances. I've used MBG and Spott Hogg both for years and have zero issues with either of them. To bad this happened at the worst time for you Nich.

From: TD
04-Aug-20
Personally I'm a human torque wrench..... 1/2 turn before snapping and a 1/4 turn after stripping.....

Sucks it broke, but then I don't own (or rent) anything that hasn't or can't break. That it happened twice in the same place says something though. I've owned a MBG for many years and has been on a few bows now with no issues, been to heck and back. And honestly over the years they've had a great rep for being pretty tough, this is the first I've really heard of any issues. Very possible they've changed something, alloys, machining, whatever that's leading to this. Hopefully they figure it out and get things back on track.

I know of broadheads for example that had great following and reputations over the years change out something, different material, hardening process, something...... and things went south pretty quick. Same design, but became brittle, or too soft or not as sharp out of the gate.... sometimes it doesn't take much. Sometimes just a bad batch from somewhere down the line. And sometimes an entire change is forced on them. Suppliers/vendors change or even go under, materials are changed or unavailable. Machinery changes. Lots of...... stuff.... just happens and it can be hard to catch it before it gets out of the gate.

Excuse me for a minute though..... gotta go see somebody about a dog...... =D

From: LostNwoods
04-Aug-20
darn I was thinking of getting a MBG sight. I might now have to revisit CBE Hybrid sight.....Thoughts?

From: jdee
04-Aug-20
Montana Black Gold told him they were having trouble with the part that broke on his sight. Like a I’ve said before with good tags so hard to draw I need the best sight on my bows not one that might break apart in the middle of a hunt.

From: Nick Muche
04-Aug-20
I just got done tuning and sighting in a new bow sight, picked up an Option 6S, so far so good, it's a solid sight and there are lots of adjustments. Will test it out in the field this weekend, hopefully there are lot's of caribou around!

From: APauls
06-Aug-20
Apparently Midwest can do more than just run

From: sticksender
06-Aug-20
Interesting that this came up. I'll throw in some more info. As a long-time user of their sights, I recently installed a "Pro" series, which basically just means dovetail mount. Nice for traveling with the bow in a soft case, as the bow packs much better with the sight removed. The only issue with the "Pro" sight design is that the sight housing can move considerably when re-mounting in the dovetail, based on how tight you crank down the set screw. Also the gap between the dovetail bar and the mounting base opens up steadily the more you tighten the set screw, see pic. It's a big set screw that exerts a lot of force. And a sharp inside corner is cut into the dovetailed mounting base, instead of a radius. I could see the potential for this to break out sometime in the future, after being cycled numerous times. I'll probably stick with MBG sights for now, as I've had good luck in the past. But unfortunately not with the same confidence.

From: WapitiBob
06-Aug-20
I've been using a dovetail sight extension bar for almost 50 years, with zero problem. Yes, you can overtighten them but finger tight is enough and they'll never move. The extensions use a dovetail because "that's how they've always been" but you can see from the above picture, they only use one side of the dovetail for location. The inner corners are sharp because they buy cheap dovetail cutters, and the depth is far greater than it needs to be. On Nicks sight bar they could have cut the compression slot half as deep, the dovetail half as deep and still been just fine. For a fix you can stick a flat washer or shim in the compression slot to regulate how much crush you get. The problem with 7075 on a female dovetail is it doesn't have the elongation that 6061 has so it'll break rather then stretch way sooner than the 6061. Either way, you don't need to reef on these dovetail sight screws; mounting screws, yea probably but the dovetails have plenty of contact.

From: Nick Muche
06-Aug-20
I think I should add that the reason mine looks so over tightened, is because it was. I took the photo after trying my best to get the darn thing back on there, so I tightened it pretty hard in hopes she would stay... It wasn't initially that tight, though it had to be somewhat over tightened for the crack to begin I'd assume.

06-Aug-20
Try spot hog! Military discount! give them a call, get your custom one made.

From: Kurt
06-Aug-20
I called BG on my preliminary failure (same as Nick’s). They are shipping me a replacement dovetail...no issue to Canada. Good company.

From: APauls
06-Aug-20
Apparently Midwest can do more than just run

22-Oct-23
Climbed into my treestand today and did a pre-hunt equipment check and realized my MBG sight was a little wobbly. Not at the head of the sight, but halfway between the sught housing and where it attaches to the bow. I see no Alan bolts that are in the spot and have no idea what caused it or what exactly the issue is. It’s not too wobbly that 20 yard shots will be impacted, but if this would’ve happened on a backcountry hunt of any kind I’d be heartbroken. I’ll update this thread when I dig into it, but I know it isn’t the same exact problem Nick had… sad, I got this sight not even 4 months ago….

22-Oct-23

BoggsBowhunts's embedded Photo
BoggsBowhunts's embedded Photo
Right here is where mine got incredibly wobbly all of a sudden. There are Allen bolts in there, but it looks like I’ll have to take the whole front of the sight off to tighten them. And no, that isn’t nail polish, the sight just held together enough for 20 yard shots to still work after all!

From: KSflatlander
22-Oct-23
Dang, I hate when that happens. I learned the hard way about loctite. Glad you found it before it cost you. Good luck this season.

From: HUNT MAN
22-Oct-23
Nick what sight your shooting now days??

From: Dale06
22-Oct-23
Been there done that with Montana Gold. Had lots of issues with mine. I moved to SpotHogg and so far no issues

From: butcherboy
22-Oct-23
Interesting. I read this thread when it was first posted in 2020 but never responded. I’ve had my MBG single pin for about 10 years with no issues at all. One thing I did though was change out the dovetail for a solid mount on the bow riser. I had issues with a Spothogg and the Allen screws stripping on the sight posts. It was an older model when the individual pins all had Allen screws to rotate them up or down. I have no idea what they are like now. My next sight will be MBG double vertical slider mounted on the bow using Hoyt’s mounting system.

22-Oct-23
I never was a fan of the MBG because of some of their design weak points. I’ve been shooting an Axcel slider and really like the functions and structure.

From: Gus
22-Oct-23
This happened to my son's sight as well. The company took care of it and mailed a new bar which was nice but that's besides the point. It's really inconvenient when the sight bar breaks.

From: carcus
22-Oct-23
I'll stick with axcel sights

22-Oct-23

BoggsBowhunts's embedded Photo
BoggsBowhunts's embedded Photo
BoggsBowhunts's embedded Photo
BoggsBowhunts's embedded Photo
These Allen bolts were almost completely falling out when I got back to my truck. In order to get to them I had to remove the entire housing by taking out the Allen bolts in the second picture. Ridiculous that they don’t loctite them or put lock washers on them from the factory. I’m assuming their purpose is to change from right to left handed?

Either way, definitely not buying black gold ever again.

22-Oct-23
Nick- Holy cr** look what you started!

From: Blood
22-Oct-23
Boggs, do you set up your bow or let a bow shop do that? I’ve had zero issues with my Dual Trac. I’ve set the 1st, 2nd and 3rd axis…..and you have to loosen/tighten those yourself…..

I also do all my setups myself. I would not trust a bow shop.

22-Oct-23
Blood, I believe this sight was together when I bought it from the shop? If not, they put it on when I was getting it restrung so I’m not saying that’s out of the question, I just thought these sights came in one piece. If not, there’s a VERY high probability they goofed it up, as they also goofed up my strings and cables (bow would only go up to 62 pounds and they weren’t smart enough to twist them up so they ordered new ones)

If it IS the bowshops fault and the Black Gold’s don’t come put together already, disregard everything and I know of a good bow shop to avoid in Missouri…

Mine was an Ascent of some kind, not sure the exact mod. 5 pin slider is all I know.

From: Blood
22-Oct-23
Boggs, if your shop tried to set the axis’ on that sight, they might not have tightened the hex screws back up. When you do the 3 axis’ you only have to slightly loosen them to move the sight parts.

If they didn’t retighten them, you have what you have. Just trying to think as to WHY those would be loose.

From: Quinn @work
22-Oct-23
If that’s not nail polish is it part of your Halloween costume?? :) :)

Email black gold. They will get back to you quickly and take care of any problem if there’s one.

22-Oct-23
Blood, no they just screwed it on to the riser of my bow. I watched them do it and don’t remember them ever taking anything apart like that. I thought maybe you meant it came disassembled and they put it together during install.

Quinn, no parts were broken it seems, just that the screws backed themselves out at the worst possible time. My old spot hogg never did that ;)

From: Blood
22-Oct-23
Quinn, that residue on the sight is from the sticker you remove when you set the axis’. It’s specifically there exactly for that. It’s very sticky.

Boggs, if that shop just screwed the sight on and didn’t set the axis’, I’d never go back.

From: Matt
22-Oct-23
Seems like a bow shop mistake, hard to blame MBG there.

22-Oct-23
After reading this I’m kinda glad I open the mbg I have in a box to move right now…maybe I’ll return it before I open it lol. Save the hassle…

From: Blood
22-Oct-23
I’m assuming that is a Dual Trac with the two sight indicators?

It looks like your sight tape starts 1/3 of the way down…it might be more efficient if it starts at the top of your sight area, so when you roll the dial up, it stops at 20 (or whatever distance you start it at). Then you can roll it down to the farthest distance the second pin will allow. If you remove that pin, you can get a whole lot more distance with your first pin.

To do that, the shop should have adjusted the whole housing to allow it to work that way. Maybe they messed with it to try to do that and never tightened it up.

22-Oct-23
Blood, I have it set at flush to the top for “zero” and 60 pin (my floater) is near the bottom of the sight housing where I want it, 20 is near the top but plenty of room to see the target. I did all the sight set up, they just screwed it on to the riser. My fletching hit at 95ish yards, but I don’t even practice that far anymore so it isn’t a big deal. I’m order for the tape to work higher I would have to lower my anchor. I’m happy with the set up, just not happy that it fell apart on me.

Matt, it wasn’t the bow shop because they never undid the two Allen keys to even get to the ones that fell out, let alone mess with the ones that came out. I looked at the packaging to confirm the sight came as is and the only bolts that have been turned were to sight it in. Entirely on Black Gold.

From: Blood
22-Oct-23

Blood's embedded Photo
Here’s mine so I can max out the sight tape.
Blood's embedded Photo
Here’s mine so I can max out the sight tape.
I see now…..you’re only flush because you put the housing on the the top set screws.

From: Blood
22-Oct-23

Blood's embedded Photo
Blood's embedded Photo
Bottom of the dial here.

From: Blood
22-Oct-23
If you remove the second pin indicator - say for a TAC event - you can use your top pin for the entire sight tape and beyond. That second pin indicator stops the dial from turning further down.

From: Scott/IL
22-Oct-23
I ran a MBG for quite a few years and loved how bright the pins were, especially at last light in a deer stand. I can also say they absolutely stand behind their warranty.

Unfortunately, I had to use their warranty twice after the slider failed on me on back to back Alaska drop hunts. I’ve switched to Spot Hogg the last year or so. I can’t say that I like it more than the MBG, but it certainly does seem to be a lot tougher.

From: Matt
22-Oct-23
“Matt, it wasn’t the bow shop because they never undid the two Allen keys to even get to the ones that fell out, let alone mess with the ones that came out. I looked at the packaging to confirm the sight came as is and the only bolts that have been turned were to sight it in. Entirely on Black Gold.”

Sounds like operator error then. Bows vibrate a lot at the shot and shoot loose over time, so the hardware needs to be checked/tightened periodically. Disassembling and applying thread locker before mounting accessories is a good practice.

From: Pop-r
23-Oct-23
I had the same problem with an IQ sight. They replaced it and the new one was loose and wouldn't stay tight two months later. Loved the sight but quality wasn't there. Shame.

23-Oct-23
Matt, with all due respect, absolutely not. The sight is four months old. If the company is pushing a product that falls apart in less than a season unless you personally threadlock every Allen bolt on it - they’re a bad company and it’s a defective product as a whole. It shouldn’t be the consumers responsibility to ensure their product holds up for one season, I hadn’t even gotten the chance to abuse it yet!

From: pav
23-Oct-23
So, someone/something on an assembly line didn't torque a couple (possibly one) allen head screws enough...and the assessment is we have a bad company...selling defective products?

I just bought a new Honda Pioneer UTV over the summer. In less than 20 hours of use, found one of the small skid plates lying on the ground. All three screws that held that plate were missing. I checked the remaining skid plates and all were tight. Someone apparently forgot to tighten those three screws. Should I contact Honda and tell them they are selling defective products? Think I'll pass...

I own four MGB sights and never had an issue to date. That said, Nick's reason for starting this thread makes me pay close attention every time I loosen and torque the dovetails. Reviving this thread over a loose screw...doesn't have the same (or similar) relevance IMO.

23-Oct-23
Pav, if the issue left you stranded miles from the trailhead on your UTV, you’d probably cuss Honda a time or two. Similarly, if a sight fell apart on you in a treestand you’d also likely be mad at the company for a while. Do mistakes happen? Yes, but you assume that a new hunting sight that retails for nearly $300 is gonna hold up for a long time and when it falls apart in a tree after four months of owning it, I see every reason to be frustrated at the company and their quality control.

If somebody buys a lemon vehicle and it blows up after 20k miles, do you think they’re gonna have wonderful things to say about the company? Probably not. This might be the only MBG sight that does this, but the fact that it did it is sure gonna make me never buy another one again

From: midwest
23-Oct-23
No matter which sight you go with after MBG, someone’s had a similar failure with that brand, too. What’s important is how the company responds.

From: Quinn @work
23-Oct-23
"they’re a bad company"- first world problem here for sure when a couple screws come loose and the whole company that's been in business for years is bad.

I agree midwest.

From: JTreeman
23-Oct-23
I whole heartedly agree with the original premise of this thread. Failure of the alloy at the dovetails is completely unacceptable IMO.

Now the loosening of the screws on the windage adjustment plate (or whatever you want call it) seems like a minor thing to me. Does it suck? For sure it does. Is is frustrating, hell yeah it is. Does it make the sight/company crappy/bad? Certainly not IMO.

I have had stuff come loose, stuff that I think shouldn’t, stuff I’ve installed, or a shop has installed, and even that a manufacture has installed/assembled. I get kinda pissy at the time, but by the end I realize if it was that important to me for everything to be as perfect as I wanted/expected I should have at least checked it myself. Live and learn, fix it and move on, it’s a mass produced mid-price sight, it is what it is.

—Jim

From: Brotsky
23-Oct-23
There's a whole lot of junk on this site if we're going to start classifying things with a couple screws loose as junk! Myself included!

From: bigeasygator
23-Oct-23
Maybe it comes from doing a lot of shooting of pistols and rifles, but I put index marks on pretty much every screw on my bow. It obviously won't "prevent" a screw from coming loose, but early identification and intervention can save some major headaches down the line.

From: Blood
23-Oct-23
Boggs, I think you and your bow shop didn’t take the time to set the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Axis….and make sure it was properly done. And therein lies your issue. If you had done that, MBG sight would be on your list as a solid sight. Just trying to remain positive about a very reputable sight company with excellent customer service, that I have used.

23-Oct-23
Blood, when you buy a new vehicle do you take it apart, break down the engine, rebuild the transmission, then put it together that way you know it was done right? Of course not, because there’s a reasonable expectation that it was put together correctly from the factory. Does MBG include instructions that in order for their sights to make it through a season you have to set the first second and third axis? No. Do they expect the average shooter to take every allen bolt out of their sight and loctite it? I sure hope not…

Reasonable expectation is that you can put the sight on the bow, sight the pins in, slap a sight tape on it, and go hunting. I’ve never heard of a product that required the operator to completely disassemble it before use, because if they don’t it will be operator error when it all goes wrong.

Are they a terrible company? Probably not, and I’m sure a million of their sights are perfect, but I bought a product and the product failed at an incredibly unfortunate time - and for that reason I’ll never buy another one and TO ME, the company sucks. You guys might love them, but they won’t get another dime of my money.

Like I said, the average consumer likely doesn’t know these Allen bolts even exist, as they’re hidden in the middle of the sight and can’t even be seen until the sight is disassembled

From: BOHNTR
23-Oct-23
I tighten (to the specs they should be) ALL screws on ANY sight when I buy one….no matter who the manufacturer is. I have never relied on factory workers to ensure they were tight when it comes to bow sights. Never had an issue with any of them by following that practice. JMO

From: midwest
23-Oct-23
“ Reasonable expectation is that you can put the sight on the bow, sight the pins in, slap a sight tape on it, and go hunting.”

So you didn’t know you needed to set 1st 2nd and 3rd axis? If not, your shop should have at least informed you of that.

From: Jethro
23-Oct-23
Both sides are right. For a product that comes assembled from manufacturer, you should not have to disassemble and then put it back together better then they shipped it out. But screws coming loose don't equate to a product/manufacturer being junk. Move on if you've lost confidence, yes, but too many others with no problems to deem MBG junk.

From: BOHNTR
23-Oct-23
I tighten (to the specs they should be) ALL screws on ANY sight when I buy one….no matter who the manufacturer is. I have never relied on factory workers to ensure they were tight when it comes to bow sights. Never had an issue with any of them by following that practice. JMO

From: BOHNTR
23-Oct-23

From: BOHNTR
23-Oct-23

From: Blood
23-Oct-23
What Midwest said. If you want a sight you slap on your bow, take no time to understand why you need to set the Axis’, grab a Tru Glo or something cheap. I’m sure those companies have solid product line and reputable products. I hope you switch to something more in line with what you’re looking for and actually need. I think the Dual Trac is too much of a sight for you.

I was trying to be nice and help you. Heck, I’d even go so far as DM you, give my number and help you out. But now……

From: HDE
23-Oct-23
3 axis: x, y, z (aka up/down, side-to-side, and rotation).

If the tolerances are tight on both bow and sight, no need to worry about "z". Z only becomes a factor with the more moveable parts a sight has or a "lick-em and stick-em" bow making process.

From: JohnMC
23-Oct-23
I have never had a MT Black Gold Sight but when Boggs came to CO he had his fingers nails painted bright red and also lots of matching lip stick!

Joking joking

From: Native Okie
23-Oct-23
Chines POS!

From: caribou77
23-Oct-23
I remember the original thread and it was about that time I had purchased one. I’ve had zero issues with it but do feel that nick’s original post helped me get it right outta the gate.

But Boggs, while I don’t feel it should’ve come loose, I also don’t think that’s poor manufacturing. Could be a bad one, sure. But I will say when setting up your sight, all axis should have been messed with and tightened.

In the end it’s a loose screw…. Happens all the time somewhere.

23-Oct-23
If I didn’t sell or install equipment that at one point went bad relatively quickly I’d be out of business…one bad apple here and there is bound to happen when humans are involved… heck I bought my wife a new GMC Yukon Denali in 2021…it had 5 miles on it when it got delivered from a dealer in Illinois… I hit 13 miles pulling into my kids school and the engine blew… I got a new car (versus rebuilding) and shes still driving it … and that was probably close to $70k not $300…

From: MoBowhunter
27-Oct-23
Buy HHA and your problem is solved. Best sights on the market!!

From: 808bowhunter
27-Oct-23
I love my MBG. Same sight for 5 years and put my equipment through a lot. A lot lighter than my spot Hogg I had prior. No issues so far

From: Coondog
27-Oct-23
Boggs, I feel like you’re completely overreacting. Screws come loose on bows and accessories on those bows. Whether you’re going to take the time to set a sight up correctly or not, you should at the very least do you due diligence and make sure screws are tight. I check mine a few times a year and it’s always surprising to find one or two that aren’t tight. If you’re shooting your bow consistently, then you would have heard or felt the rattle of the sight being loose or noticed while rolling your dial that the sight was moving. Just because you had a bad experience with a screw being loose does not mean one of the most reputable sight companies is all of the sudden a bad company and make crappy products. Be more accountable.

From: cnelk
27-Oct-23
Based on some of theses posts I’m surprised some of you don’t blame the bow manufacturer for missing an animal.

From: HDE
27-Oct-23
^^^ now that's funny right there

28-Oct-23
My main concern is that I never knew the screws were there to tighten them in the first place. My initial post on this thread was as soon as I discovered my sight was falling apart. It was only after my hunt that I dug into it and realized there were Allan screws that you could only access by taking out multiple Allen screws and breaking the sight down into two pieces to begin with.

Was it an overreaction to call them junk over a couple loose screws? Maybe, but imagine the frustration getting to a treestand and realizing your sight is falling apart and having no clue as to why.

The screws that were coming loose were completely hidden unless you broke the sight down and I’m certain that 95% of the people shooting this sight have no clue they’re there, as it seems their only purpose is to possibly offset the sight farther to the right or left and they’re completely invisible just from looking at the sight.

It wasn’t like they were screws you adjusted - or even saw at all - while initially sighting in or setting your tape.

IMO, if a company knew that the likelihood of a customer adjusting these hidden screws are low, they should spend the few cents extra and put a lock washer on them from the factory or a drop of loctite.

From: Coondog
28-Oct-23
I’d bet that WAY less than 95% of people who buy a Black Gold don’t know that those screws are there to adjust the 3rd axis. Those screws are there for a reason! If they loctited them or put a lock washer on them, then they’d make an incredibly crucial part of the sight more difficult to use for the shooter. Axis adjustment is a necessity for angled shots and long range shots. Just because you didn’t bother to do that does not mean everyone else won’t. That technology is there to benefit you to increase your odds of being successful on a hunt. I understand your frustration, but don’t be frustrated at the sight. Instead maybe be a little frustrated with your shop and bow tech for not explaining why that sight is top of the line because of the ease of use for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd axis adjustments. The more you know, the better archer you will be.

From: midwest
28-Oct-23
I don't believe it was his 3rd axis screws that were loose.

From: Franzen
29-Oct-23
Go with a cheaper sight and you won't have to deal with crap like this! ;) Good post Jethro.

From: HDE
29-Oct-23
After reading most posts on this thread, now I understand why 185" mule deer and 360" bull elk weren't shot very often 30 yrs ago. There wasn't a 3 axis adjustment on sights.

From: bigswivle
29-Oct-23
Based on some of theses posts I’m surprised some of you don’t blame the bow manufacturer for missing an animal.

I’ve missed a bunch and it’s never my fault

From: Boreal
29-Oct-23
The screws in the picture above are to move the sight housing further to the left if needed.

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