Show Me Some Legit 400" Bulls
Contributors to this thread:Elk
From: Dyjack
03-Aug-20
Oh, you'll know a 400 when you see one. Even amongst 350 class bulls they dwarf them in body and antlers.
There was some old threads with pictures, but it looks like they don't load.
I believe Big Dan (rip) killed one a long time ago and might have pictures on his profile.
From: Pop-r
03-Aug-20
Jay Scott has a method that works very well. Learn it. I will add that there are very few 400" bulls in CO.
From: JohnMC
03-Aug-20
I’d guess that one about 415”-420”???
From: sticksender
03-Aug-20
Here's one taken last week in Arizona.
From: TurboT
03-Aug-20
Try and get good at measuring the first 3 points. You wont kill a huge bull if the fronts are BIG. We use this method: add points on one side then double those and then add 200" for beam length, mass, width. This only works on big heavy bulls. Might only be 150-175 on thinner horns or shorter main beams. Example: if all 5 points on one side are 15" that equals 75", mulitply by 2X for the other side gives you 150 then add 200 for a 350" bull. Not a pic, but hope it helps.
From: keepemsharp
03-Aug-20
Stick: nice Chuck Adams pose.
From: Royboy
03-Aug-20
My friend got a 368” bull and we thought it was a lot smaller than that. What really fooled us was the body was so massive it made the horns look smaller. His beams were just over 50” but his mass was amazing. I have big hands but could not touch fingers on any part of the beam even between the 4th and 5th points. Good luck
From: cnelk
03-Aug-20
This guy doesn’t quite hit the 400”. Would you take it?
From: wytex
03-Aug-20
I'd like to know the official score on that Arizona bull, doesn't look like 400+ to me, however judging by pics is clearly not my strong suit. This bull found dead goes 367 and change officially.
From: cnelk
03-Aug-20
Side view
From: cnelk
03-Aug-20
He’s weak on top. Probably best to pass. :)
From: Ucsdryder
03-Aug-20
Matt do you have any pictures of good bulls yet?
From: Jaquomo
03-Aug-20
I know a couple Bowsiters and one other friend who have taken scored 400" bulls and have photos, but I'm not at liberty to post them. What I will say is that in each case, the rack configuration is different but there will be several factors that are truly "WOW!" compared to a really nice 350-360 bull.
From: Jaquomo
03-Aug-20
Matt, assuming that bull is in velvet, I would guess him in the low 370s. Great bottoms, average tops (for that area), doesn't have the width or mass, as you judged.
From: sticksender
03-Aug-20
The velvet AZ bull green-scored 426 & change, after deductions for symmetry.
From: smurph
03-Aug-20
My buddy and his cousin got this one in AZ. I am told it’s 400. I can’t say I’d disagree.
From: jrb(CO)
03-Aug-20
official 403 gross, 390 net
From: Dyjack
03-Aug-20
I'd think the velvet bull in picture is 365-380 range. But it's hard to tell with the lighting.
From: wytex
03-Aug-20
Surprised by that Arizona score, was it with velvet ? Goes to show pics never do them justice. The huge bulls I've see or held all had either extreme mass or very long tines and long main beams and width. cnelk did he have a left foot or leg injury ? Wondering about those shorter fronts on the right side.
Nice bulls all around.
From: cnelk
03-Aug-20
That deadhead bull above isn’t mine. It’s my buddy’s. He’s turned down $1000 for it. I’m Just holding it because I shoot small shit. :)
From: Rock
03-Aug-20
From: coyote13
03-Aug-20
Matt, Here is a 8x7 401 7/8 from last year
From: Firsty
03-Aug-20
Be advised cnelk is 5'3" for reference.
From: coyote13
03-Aug-20
Matt, Agreed. When I shot him I guessed him at 370ish. The extra points and 59" beams give him the big gross score. He is 386 4/8 net. In all honesty there was big 6x6 that I was orginally after that had more wow factor, but this guy showed up and there was no way I wasnt shooting.
From: Willieboat
03-Aug-20
Look for length on both tines and the beams.......mass doesn’t add much in the grand scheme of things.
From: StickFlicker
03-Aug-20
Perhaps this picture of the Arizona bull will convince you that it's bigger than it appears from the "Chuck Adams" photo? It was killed by a special (365 days per year) hunter in the unit I have a tag in a few weeks. Another special tag hunter also wounded and lost a huge bull, and two more special tag hunters have been added to the mix this week. Always nice to wait for years and years to draw a tag, just to have the top end bulls killed off by special tag hunters. I'm NOT a fan of special tags, for the most part because I don't feel they should be allowed to hunt before the draw hunters and certainly not 365 days per year.
From: altitude sick
03-Aug-20
I don’t know Coyote. I’m pretty wowed. Just looks like a bad angle and picture of your bull
Maybe you should have posed 4’ behind it
From: welka
03-Aug-20
This is not always easy and the curve of the brow tines can mess you up, but we always went by “end of the nose” is 16-17” and to get a bull to 380+, you must average 17” per point (so like the math above, 17x6x2 + 200ish = gold). So, if brown tines are close to nose and rest of the rack is at least as big as the brows, it’s a bull of a lifetime.
From: tradi-doerr
03-Aug-20
Matt, here's a AZ bull I measured last year,gross 398, net 383. Check your PM
From: JL
03-Aug-20
JL's Link
FWIW....this video was posted in Jan of this year so I'm guessing it was taken last year?? Lee T. shot this one in Colorado with a ML. Don't know how big it is...but it looks very big in the video.
From: smurph
04-Aug-20
My buddy and his cousin got this one in AZ. I am told it’s 400. I can’t say I’d disagree.
From: Irishman
04-Aug-20
Apparently this bull was shot by one of those long range rifle hunters, a 1,000 yd plus shot. Hunting with a guide on national forest here in Montana. He thought he had missed and didn't follow up when the elk went over the ridge. It was found by a mushroom picker the following spring.
From: IdyllwildArcher
04-Aug-20
Amazing bull. One of the animals I want to arrow most is a bull with big crowns.
From: Bou'bound
04-Aug-20
Irishman is that guy the hunter or the mushroom picker. Beast.
From: Beachtree
04-Aug-20
This one not 400 .official score 394 gross ,net 380 Montana last year.
From: No Mercy
04-Aug-20
ND state record typical. 403” net
From: No Mercy
04-Aug-20
ND state record non-typical. 449 7/8
From: Ucsdryder
04-Aug-20
I wonder how often that happens with long range rifles. Often you’re hiking down and up the next canyon. That’s a long way to walk if you’re “sure” you missed. I hope that was the mushroom hunter. Zero chance I’d give that “hunter” the rack back.
From: Jaquomo
04-Aug-20
That ND state record typical has short G1s. I'd pass, lol!
UCSD, I suspect it happens often. In the ranch where I used to guide rifle hunters, we would go back in the summer and occasionally find deadheads 30 yards back in the timber behind bald ridges. Once one of my hunters ignored my instructions not to shoot, took an 800 yard shot, and was really pissed when I made him climb down the valley and up the other side to check for blood.
After two other guys opened up on a herd at close to 1000 yards while I was screaming at them to stop, wounded several, killed a calf (they had bull tags) I decided guiding rifle hunters wasn't for me. All this outfitter cared about was the money.
From: No Mercy
04-Aug-20
Those bulls above were both taken the first year the season opened outside Theodore Roosevelt National Park. They had plenty of years to get big. There are some legit 400's running around the Badlands however. I scored this one at 374 3/8 NET with the broken RH 4th point.
From: Bou'bound
04-Aug-20
Irishman is that guy the hunter or the mushroom picker. Beast.
From: c3
04-Aug-20
Nevada 437 that was killed the second day of the archery season right in front of us by a rifle hunter with one of the go anywhere anytime heritage tags - he shows up at 2:00mins
A wyoming general area giant that I believe would make the mark - just wait for it at 30 seconds :)
Cheers, Pete
From: jdee
04-Aug-20
This bull isn’t 400 but he looked like 500 when he was coming in screaming. Weak tops.
From: BOHNTR
04-Aug-20
Here are two legit 400+" NET bulls from AZ I've recently measured.
From: Treeline
04-Aug-20
Matt,
When you are out in that area, make sure to swing by the Meeker Hotel. There are some giant bulls on the walls there that are worth looking at up close and personal...
From: altitude sick
04-Aug-20
GG do you have a goal in mind. Or a targeted size you will hold out for? Or just the overall frame and look.
For example I prefer the look of a large 5x5 because it makes the tails look bigger.
I like big whale tails and would be happy with that type of frame over a higher scoring straight beamed 400”
From: Norseman
04-Aug-20
Love me some Outlaws. Thanks for the Vids, Pete!
From: altitude sick
04-Aug-20
It’s exciting just to even be discussing targeting a 350” bull on public land. Very exciting
From: altitude sick
04-Aug-20
It’s exciting just to even be discussing targeting a 350” bull on public land. Very exciting
From: Jaquomo
04-Aug-20
I think 350 in that unit is a realistic target for someone with your experience. In all our camming and glassing before season, we only saw a couple we believed would honestly score at that level. Lots with big tops and weak bottoms or vice versa. Based on that, I lowered my expectations a little (it was a severe drought year). Since we killed both our bulls in the first six days, I still wonder what we may have found if we'd been more patient. But 350+ bulls in the hand.....
From: Paul@thefort
04-Aug-20
As Treeline suggested, check out the Meeker Hotel. I do not know the score except they are big, as a comparison
From: Ucsdryder
04-Aug-20
GG, I heard a podcast, I believe it was Jay Scott, and he was with Steve Ward I believe and they were saying a drought could impact horns by up to 30”. Bulls they had seen the year before were 30” smaller than the year before type deal.
From: Mt. man
04-Aug-20
I saw this bull the night after punching my tag on a 311" net bull. He was archery shot 5 days later and grossed 405" and Net 396 4/8". Basically an almost perfect 7x7. Unfortunately the hunter who shot this bull was a friend and about 2 months ago felt depressed and ended his own life so I post this in memoriam of "Mike". RIP.
From: Jaquomo
04-Aug-20
That's an awful story, Mt.man. RIP to Mike.
Matt, yes, we did see quite a bit of that. But Tom's bull had huge tops, sort of "weak" bottoms (for a bull that grossed 368). Mine has great balance and symmetry all the way through.
From: Medicinemann
04-Aug-20
Now that we are into the first week of August, how much additional growth would you expect on an elk rack before they become hard horned? 5%.....more? less?
From: Willieboat
04-Aug-20
I expect them to start stripping velvet real soon, they are done growing.
From: BOHNTR
04-Aug-20
They’re done growing where I’m at.....they’ll be rubbed out in two weeks.
From: Ron Niziolek
04-Aug-20
Jake, I'd say zero growth now. Most bulls here in NW Wyoming will be stripping velvet around the 15th. Just my opinion though.
From: Treeline
04-Aug-20
Saw some cedars all beat up last week where there were several bull groups up in 2. They are already starting to rub out, particularly the older ones. Seems like the older ones are the first to get ready for the rut...
From: PoudreCanyon
04-Aug-20
A colleague of my hunting partner killed this bull, solo, last fall on his second elk hunt ever. I’m told he was rough scored 386” gross.
From: PoudreCanyon
04-Aug-20
Another view...
From: Coyote 65
04-Aug-20
I have only seen one elk that was a 400 incher. Took a picture of him standing next to a fence and after having the picture developed went back and measured the fence post he was standing next to. Using that as a reference was able to tell it was about 400 inches.
However I did not need to measure him when I saw him in the wild. He was just awe inspiring. I kept muttering under my breath, wow,wow. He had about 30 cows with him so they must have been impressed too. No tag, so he was safe from me.
If you see a 400 bull in the wild, you will know it.
Terry
From: splitlimb13
05-Aug-20
Picture of him through the spotter the day before our encounter.
Picture of him through the spotter the day before our encounter.
My son shouldered this bull on the second season Archery hunt. The bull jumped into private, was killed by a rifle hunter 409".
From: Dyjack
05-Aug-20
That's a bull that would be hard to pass on . Looks capable of 370+ for sure.
From: Tilzbow
05-Aug-20
B I G E N O U G H !!!!
From: Ucsdryder
05-Aug-20
He looks big and take with a grain of salt because I’m hunting 240” Colorado otc bulls, but he doesn’t scream “omg he is huge!!!!”
From: Tilzbow
05-Aug-20
I don't have any pictures to share but I've seen two 400+ bulls in the wild. One in NV after I was done hunting and killed a much smaller bull. Then another on day 2 of a hunt in Unit 13 in NM in 2007. The NM bull had a huge herd of 100 or so cows along with at least two satellite bulls that were 350 class animals. When I saw the 400+ bull pushing cows up a fence line I about crapped myself. A few seconds later, the bull hung up behind a cedar 45 yards out and then shortly after that the herd blew out due to changing winds. I got a real good look at the bull on his way out and starting shaking. My guide was also shaking.
All I can say is when you see one, there's zero question what you're looking at.
From: Dyjack
05-Aug-20
Seems to me that's a bull worth going after. He's probably seen some shit.
From: Medicinemann
05-Aug-20
The photo is just fuzzy enough that I can't tell for sure, but if what I am seeing if his left third (and if the right side matches it) , he's got a chance....but my gut guess is 380-390
From: Norseman
05-Aug-20
That’s a stud, Matt! Might be that 400 you are dreaming of.
Hope he sticks around. He got big for a reason.
From: blackwolf
05-Aug-20
Great bull any way you look at it! Good luck!
From: Dyjack
05-Aug-20
He's got a lot of time to go to his safe space. If you don't kill him before he switched on then think of any borders to private, or inaccessible land with cows on it. That's where he will be.
He might be good at surviving. But he's still got testosterone coursing through him. Women ruin us all.
From: Dyjack
06-Aug-20
Places like that are a blessing for them. That's how they get how they are. I hope you slip one through his lungs if you decide to pursue him. Seems to be a worthy adversary to me. Good luck, brother!
From: Norseman
06-Aug-20
Don’t put any pressure on yourself. Live in the moment, have no regrets about your decisions. Enjoy the little things.
I’m sure 5 years from now When u look at Shaq up on your wall, you will have no regret with having killed him on day one. Good luck, Matt!
From: Kodiak
06-Aug-20
Go down to your local Cabelas and have a look. The cabelas near me probably has 20 on the wall.
From: AZBUGLER
06-Aug-20
This bull was poached last year and not recovered until weeks later. Scored 430 something.
From: AZBUGLER
06-Aug-20
A crappy pic of a pic, but I lost the original. This bull was never killed that I’m aware of. Pic from 2015.
From: altitude sick
07-Aug-20
Old, Sway back pot bellied bull
From: Zim
07-Aug-20
I was doing some scouting this weekend and passed through Meeker today to glance at the aforementioned bulls (the Meeker Hotel Treeline mentioned). From left to right, they net scored 446, 391, and 447. Great place
From: Treeline
08-Aug-20
Pretty amazing set of bulls, ain’t it:-)
From: Irishman
08-Aug-20
Looking for photo's of 400" bulls? The Pope and Young records show photos of the top 10 typical elk ever killed. I think only 9 of them scored above 400". The thing that stands out is the length of their tines. Unlikely to ever see one alive. Grey Ghost, looks like your bull has at least 7 points. I don't know what the expectations are for your trophy unit, but I can't imagine there are many bigger bulls in it, especially since he looks so much bigger than the other bulls. A huge body can definitely make the antlers look smaller.
From: Zim
08-Aug-20
Absolutely, Treeline. Thanks for calling it out. Seems like a great boutique hotel.
From: glidingindian
09-Aug-20
As Royboy noted in his post above some of these giants have such large bodies it gives a diminished perspective of their massive racks. Several in camp had seen this bull , one while he was fighting a bull of equal size, and all put him at 360-370. When I saw him my first thought was that as well. He grossed 408 3/8 with the SCI scorer and 402 5/8 by B&C. His tops not that impressive but all six of his fronts exactly 20 inches, 50 inches wide and 57 inch main beams. Public land bull on a premium draw tag , would have been happy with a 320 til I saw him and got lucky. Hunted the Mescalero once and told by my guide that big thirds are often the difference between the really big and the giants. I took it for what it’s worth. Killed a bull there that scored 375 that lookEd bigger than the bull pictured here because his tops were so much bigger. But his fronts were not nearly this big and he wasn’t as wide. Also, body not as big. For me I get wowed by tops,Both elk and whitetails , and misjudge them because of it. Besides I get excited and wouldn’t even think of body size. Heck , If I kill a 310 in NM this year I’ll get excited as hell. Too old to get get too picky anymore.
From: Kurt
09-Aug-20
Albert, Heck of a bull! Put your 375 up too!
NW CO doesn't have many really wide bulls in my somewhat limited experience, only having hunted it 4 times. My 377" gross bull had 56" main beams but was only 38" wide spread and was a tank. My other nice bull from up there was only 34" wide inside spread. Definitely hurts the score when they are narrow, but they are great looking elk anyway.
From: Medicinemann
09-Aug-20
I am always wowed by the Royals and whale tale of a big bull.....but the first thing that I always look at is the thirds......I don't think that I have ever seen a 390+" bull that didn't have extraordinary thirds....
From: Jaquomo
09-Aug-20
Kurt, yes, we saw quite a few bulls in that unit with long main beams but very narrow spreads. I saw one whopper that was a WOW bull until he turned straight on. I bet he wasn't more than 30" wide. OTOH, mine had 53" beams and was 50" wide, so you never know.
From: BOHNTR
09-Aug-20
Off my back deck last year about this time. Giant bull....terrible pic with my c-phone through one lens of my hand held binos. ??
From: Willieboat
10-Aug-20
To bad this bull is only 33 inside spread....thankfully he has long tines !
To bad this bull is only 33 inside spread....thankfully he has long tines !
From: Lv2hnt
12-Aug-20
Here's a pic from a while back. I ran into this bull alive on an Arizona archery hunt in the late '90s --- unfortunately, he disappeared on me. Found him during the next year's archery season (he'd been dead for 2.5 days, liver shot by a guy who gave up looking for him). Would have been the new P&Y world record at that time if he'd been recovered --- 426 6/8 gross, 411 2/8 net (typical 6x7). Both main beams 61" with 48.5" inside spread. Entered bull into B&C as pick-up (he deserved recognition for living) --- #13 B&C all-time typical at that time. Some 20+ years later he's still about #25 or so. You'll know it's a really big bull when you see him --- you'll shake in your boots ...
From: glidingindian
12-Aug-20
Kurt- I didn’t post the other bull pic because I caved to pressure and shot him with a rifle. I think it was 1997 and a guy couldn’t make it to the Mescalero so I got his spot, discounted as I recall. They had just stated bow hunting and had 4 previous archery hunters, all wounded. When I showed up with my recurve ( (Black Widow) they were pretty uncomfortable and said so. Said they wouldn’t have allowed me to come if they had known. I passed a couple great bulls and they assumed I wasn’t confident. Hell, I was looking for something exceptional because I had never been to a place like that. My buddy had killed 2 booners there On day 4 of a 5 day hunt they asked me to shoot the guides rifle and some back later with a compound. My shoulder that I later had surgery on was hurting Some so I caved. Have regretted it since , last NA animal I killed with a gun. Wish I had shot the 330 bull day one at 12 yds. Their average bull that year was 351. I was asked to go again in 2009 when a friend of a friend bailed on two tags and killed a 335 bull day one with a compound, regretting again for shooting too soon. Average bull that year was 331. As I sit here typing this I realize a lot of time has passed quickly and I am so grateful for these great experiences elk hunting. I tell all the young guys to “go while you can” ,getting old sneaks up on you!
From: Lv2hnt
13-Aug-20
Matt: You were looking for tips about field judging bulls. Give a listen to Jay Scott Outdoors podcast, Episodes 50 & 51. It's more detailed than you may want to get into 'tho ...
From: Lv2hnt
13-Aug-20
Matt: This side image was published a few years ago. Rotate that rack back and you get a better idea of its size when still on the bull (which was aged at 8.5 years) ...
From: altitude sick
13-Aug-20
I think a mature bull rear end would be right around 20” wide
From: altitude sick
13-Aug-20
Anatomical elk references
Antler burr to tip of nose 15” to 16”
Front of eye to tip of nose 12” to 13”
Inside of eye to inside of eye 7” to 8”
Top of back to bottom of belly 30”
Top of back to hoof 54-58"
Tip of ear to tip of ear 21” to 22”
Ear length (base to tip) 7.5”
From: Pop-r
13-Aug-20
Man the excitement knowing you may just get a shot on something like these is pretty awesome! Soak it up!
From: Rupe
13-Aug-20
What a great thread. Those bills are majestic. Thanks for sharing.
From: glidingindian
14-Aug-20
Kurt- I didn’t post the other bull pic because I caved to pressure and shot him with a rifle. I think it was 1997 and a guy couldn’t make it to the Mescalero so I got his spot, discounted as I recall. They had just stated bow hunting and had 4 previous archery hunters, all wounded. When I showed up with my recurve ( (Black Widow) they were pretty uncomfortable and said so. Said they wouldn’t have allowed me to come if they had known. I passed a couple great bulls and they assumed I wasn’t confident. Hell, I was looking for something exceptional because I had never been to a place like that. My buddy had killed 2 booners there On day 4 of a 5 day hunt they asked me to shoot the guides rifle and some back later with a compound. My shoulder that I later had surgery on was hurting Some so I caved. Have regretted it since , last NA animal I killed with a gun. Wish I had shot the 330 bull day one at 12 yds. Their average bull that year was 351. I was asked to go again in 2009 when a friend of a friend bailed on two tags and killed a 335 bull day one with a compound, regretting again for shooting too soon. Average bull that year was 331. As I sit here typing this I realize a lot of time has passed quickly and I am so grateful for these great experiences elk hunting. I tell all the young guys to “go while you can” ,getting old sneaks up on you!
From: glidingindian
14-Aug-20
Double post. Sorry
From: Skelly
14-Aug-20
Do you estimate the one on the left to be about 325?Also working on the field judging. His 5's and 6's are pretty good
From: Hunts_with_stick
16-Aug-20
Wow, is all I can say
From: BK-Hell Canyon
28-Sep-24
Here’s 2 over 400. And one a good friend killed in NV after putting in for the draw for over 25 years. So the 2 bulls in velvet are both over 400” hard horned. I have a CRAZY story for the GIANT in velvet I posted the 3 pics of. It involves a very good friend of mine who is probably one of the most dedicated bowhunters you’ve ever met. I’ll keep it short because it’s a lot of drama and a lot of explaining. my friend learned a very valuable lesson that you never post a picture online because every digital photograph is tag on the exact location where the photo is taken. Long story short he was the only guy who had seen that bull In late July in early August up until about the second or third week. Come opening day three guys hunting together we’re all over his spot and the bull. That bowl has been on several covers of magazines. I’ll leave it at that. Fast-forward till November, he’s getting snow tires put on his truck. Tire shop tell him he’s got a tracking device in his bumper. as with many state records or giant animals a lot of times there’s some seriously questionable things going on.
The dead elk I posted pictures of Russia 400 but giant bowls nonetheless. Believe it or not. One of them is from Idaho and scored 383. What kills it is those short 3rds Idaho’s genetics are known for.
From: MA-PAdeerslayer
28-Sep-24
GG did you kill one on the hunt that year??
From: MQQSE
28-Sep-24
405”
From: DL
29-Sep-24
Not mine Roosevelt
From: DL
29-Sep-24
Left on definitely is
From: BOHNTR
29-Sep-24
Here’s one taken near me that I officially measured for B&C. 415 7/8” NET. Giant 6x6 taken by a 15 year old.
From: Sam
30-Sep-24
Chuck’s 407
From: APauls
01-Oct-24
Nice to see this thread pop up again. So many nice bulls, but now it's killing me to see how the hunt ended up?
From: StickFlicker
01-Oct-24
From: Billyvanness
02-Oct-24
I would say the bull that’s the mayor of Estes Park at the moment is 4 hundy. I’ll try and dig up a photo
From: APauls
02-Oct-24
Thanks for sharing that thread again Matt. Now I do remember it but it was worth a second read. Great writing and great story. Great hunt even with a bummer in it. It was real.
From: Billyvanness
02-Oct-24
