Griz bluff charge what to do?
Elk
What is considered the best plan? 1. Stand your ground? 2. Make yourself look bigger? 3. Run?
At what point do you spray, or fire a handgun into the ground in front of the bear? Say the bear bluff charges and stops at 10 yards. Spray? It seems like a no brainer BUT if the wind is in your face you just seasoned yourself for the bear. And you are blind and under attack.
A fellow bowsiter and I are heading into one of the worst griz areas in WY during bow season in a few weeks. I have never been nervous about any trips including solo AK moose - but talking with a lot of locals has made me cautious.
I heard on my local radio station and I am not trying to be funny, but they said " do not knock your hunting partner on the ground so the bear eats them but to stand perfectly still instead of running"... but seriously if you have your faculties together in that situation hit that sombitch square in the nose, that will paralyze him enough you can get the hell oughta there... trust me.
The best part about all of it is you may not even know they're there in till they're under 10 yd away.....
Shoot your buddy and run like hell! You really have no chance of survival in these bear areas. People shouldn't apply there anymore, at all, EVER. Signing your own death warrant.
That said I'll send you a PM.
If I have time because things happened slowly in the daylight then I’m putting some 00 at his feet with a mossberg shockwave long before he gets to 10 yards. If it’s dark I’m aiming for his grill. I don’t mess with grizz enough to know whether or not they are bluffing.
I have had it happen twice. Both times to under 6 yards with one being a brown bear at 8 feet. Whatever you do, do not run.
It’s up to you on what you decide to do with regard to nothing, pepper spray or gun. I personally feel better with a gun but pepper spray at close distance may be the best choice. Sometimes just doing nothing may save your life if it’s a bluff. In the end it’s all about a quick interpretation of the bears behavior along with how comfortable you are with accessing what you have at hand. That means can you access and use your weapon or defense of choice in a matter of seconds.
To add to my previous post... one day while feeding my Lab I accidentally hit him right on the beaner with the dog dish, he was totally out of it for about 30 seconds... I talked to my vet on the next visit, he said if a dog ever attacks you hit them right square in the nose and run like heel!
If I see it coming he's getting the spray or gun (or both). I'm not taking a chance on him stopping. I intend to walk out alive.
10 yards is close. For me it would depend on if he was still or on the move. If he’s moving toward me 10 yards is close enough to try to control the situation. If there are cubs in the picture I’m not waiting around either.
At 10 yards I've already sprayed and hoping that has deterred the charge long enough for me to get my pistol drawn. Bullets are in the air next. NO reason to take a chance. I have a family and would never even consider playing the odds its only a bluff.....if they are coming at me I'm going to kill the bear. In the area it sounds like you'll be in....pack spray and pistol. Be safe and hope you have a great hunt.
Never happened to me personally but, I had a former student from AK who was a fishing guide. They always took a knee during the charge. Apparently running triggers an instinct to pounce and standing tall signifies a challenge to the bear. He took a knee and held his sawed off double barrel shotgun pointed at the face of the bear. In ten years he never had to pull the trigger, even though some of the bears "glanced" him as they went by.... I don't know that I would be that patient.
First make sure you bathe in butter with just a hint of garlic, I hear bears like their humans seasoned just abit. Next I would go on you tube and search griz charges and bluffs, at least get some idea of what to expect. There's going to be two of you so have a plan , one spray and one backup with the pistol. What do you plan on carrying?
Shoot dat sum beach right in da head!! That way he will learn not to charge anyone else again.
I have a pistol with 14 rounds. If I see a grizz and it sees me, the the gun is out. If it comes towards me at all fire off a couple warning shots! These bears need to be conditioned to fear humans and leave. Too many gawkers and tourist teach them that humans are an easy meal :)!!
I have heard that you should drop to a knee to get on their level so you don't shoot over them because they come in low. We had one at 40 yards he did not charge, but the gun was out and if he took one step our direction I was going to start shooting, first couple in the ground. Fortunately he went decided to leave the other direction after a 10 sec stair down. There were three of us in the group and we came up into a line. The bear came into our elk calls.
IF a bear charges me at all at less than about 20 yds I'm killing it or trying to. I carry spray but I'm not sure I could make myself use it unless it was a situation where I felt in control. A typical charge you're not going to feel that. Kill that sob! And I agree any bear that knowingly comes within close range of a human should be given a few warning shots to deter them. If this doesn't work they need to be killed.
Problem is you won’t know if it’s a bluff charge until they stop or turn around. I was charged 4 years ago by a sow with 3 one year old cubs. I held my bow up and yelled and bear spray in my right hand. Then as they got really close I threw my bow and it hit just in front of her nose. They turned around with that as I was putting pressure on the spray. Not sure why but that’s what happened. The bear biologist said since the cubs came with momma it was most likely an intimidating bluff. If cubs stay behind momma means business. Now I have a 10mm life insurance policy on my chest. Good luck!
Practice, practice, practice. Get your bear spray pulled, unlocked and fired in 1.2 seconds, tops. Have fun:)
"but talking with a lot of locals has made me cautious" They are just trying to talk you into joining the crowds in Colorado.
Wyoming residents are scared sheetlless of the bears. Why do you think there are leftover archery licenses availAble. They won’t step foot in those parts without a rifle in their hand.
whatever you decide on , always have it on you , all the horror story's I hear have one thing usually in common, they took it off at the wrong time. sitting down for lunch, field dressing , takin a growler, etc. keep it handy! good luck by the way and have a blast, its on my short list to go share some ground with the wyoming grizz in search of elk.
When in Griz country I carry a 454 Cassull. It sits very nicely right under my bino harness. It's number 2 on the best bear gun! I also have it packed with Buffalo Bore Bullets! 10 yards is a too close for me before it gets a warning shot! But it only gets one! I have never been charged, but I have been pretty close to them. They usually just run off if they see or smell us.
I always hunt with someone slower than me.
How do you know he is bluffing? Shoot the SOB.
Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, click. I'm taking my chances with LEO and a jury.
Get yourself a glock 20 with a ported bbl with some buffalo bore 220 gr outdoorsman rounds, 15 of those should get the job done. And if not, you gave it your best try. Whatever pistol you plan on carrying just make sure your familiar and well practiced, and your partner too. Remember the guide who threw is glock to the client and he had no idea how to use it, cost the guide his life.
They really need to open a rubber bullet/ paint gun season/blunt arrow season on the L48 grizz. Will condition them to stay away from humans!!
I've posted these here before, but thought I'd chime in to hopefully give some perspective. I wouldn't recommend warning shots and I don't recommend bear spray to anyone who asks. Warning shots are fine with a rifle at 100 yards. Anything inside 50 yards you will be lucky to get more than one shot off. My charge came from 40 yards and by the time I got the shotgun off, shell chambered, trigger pulled--it was a point blank shot to the chest--I might have been able to get another off in that distance if I had the shotgun in hand with one in the chamber, but you probably won't be walking around the woods on the ready 100% of the time. I don't recommend bear spray because I have been charged twice. On the first, bear spray would have worked and was an obvious bluff charge. The second, however, I don't think anything was going to stop the attack. I hit her with a shotgun slug at point blank range and she kept coming with a shattered shoulder. She took three slugs at point blank range before she took off (dying about 10 yards later). I highly doubt some pepper spray was going to dissuade her if the slugs didn't.
I've dealt with a couple "bluff" charges... the first was coming to my dead fannin sheep. I wanted to fire one shot soon enough to have enough time to get another round ready. My first shot was at 100 yards. Figured I'd wait until point blank for the one that counted. At about 50 yards he veered off and went around me. He circled at a "safe" distance while we broke down the ram. After we were done he came right to the carcass as we walked away. More than once I told my guide, "I'm gonna let him have it, if he comes inside a 50 yard radius.
My second "mock" was while archery hunting moose. Had one sneak in on us while eating lunch. We jumped up on some fallen trees to get "big" and he stopped at about 20 yards. Guide was about ready to give him 180 grains from a .300 Win Mag but we were able to sneak out while he circled. That boar tracked us in the fog walking in our foot steps for 2 miles before stumbling into us!
While archery hunting the lower 48 and Ak, I carry either my Glock 20 10mm or Smith and Wesson .44 Mag revolver. After these two occurences, I'm not a big "Bear Spray" guy.
If I was hunting a heavy populated grizz area with a partner, one of us would be carrying a short barreled shot gun with slugs/buckshot.
I heard or read somewhere that the old timers in ak would load shotguns with birdshot and blast bears in the face blinding them? Open choke with 7.5 - 8 shot, in theory might work. It's amazing the amount of lead some animals can take and still carry on.
LBshooter,
Yes, the student of mine I was referring to above carried a double barrel. Barrel one had 8-shot, barrel two had a slug. His dad carried a sawed off Benelli auto, again first shot was 8-shot followed with slugs.
Its happened to me. Bear came in after the shot with a older cub. Bear came looking for gut pile and found us. It went from finding food to protecting her cub and wanting food. I shot a round between her feet at less than 20 yards and it only made her mad. Good thing I was with someone. It was the scariest thing I have ever been through. But at the end we held our ground and walked out with our kill, very fast.
ground hunter-- The shotgun I was carrying was a short barrel/pump shotgun. The muzzle is too close to my noggin to feel safe with one in the chamber. Plus, i had hiked that same trail dozens of times without incident and suppose I was getting pretty complacent about it. Holding my bow in hand and had the shotgun slung over my shoulder. Probably should have done the reverse.
Xman, that just seems incredible to let a bear pass by you so close it brushes you, without pulling the trigger at some point.
I’d at least had an accidental discharge of several types!
I love the blind any of them that come within about 40 yds idea!
On a Haul Road trip we were breaking camp when a relatively small grizzly, maybe a 3 year old charged my brother and I as we stood outside the wall tent. I jerked my jacket open wide and started yelling as I ran at the bear. My brother had ran and grabbed the shotgun but the bear turned and went back into the brush.
We ran that bear off another half dozen times. Game warden asked me why we didn't kill it. I told him I wasn't interested in skinning it and giving him the hide and skull. He got a good laugh at that.
On Kodiak I snuck over a small hump, thinking a deer was on the other side. Bear and I met head on close enough to spit on each other. Both of us wanted nothing to do with each other and he swapped ends and tore off through the alders. I had my gun up when we met and probably could have got off a shot but it was over with in less than 2 seconds.
Never been where your going, so, how crowded is it with bears?
If possible, do not hunt alone. Do not cow call. Keep the pepper spray in your hand and ready to use. If you see fresh grizzly sign, find a different spot to hunt that day. Always be aware of your surroundings. If one does charge, the pepper spray only works at close range, so you wouldn't need to use it on a bluff charge. You should never run, because if you do, and the grizzly was just bluffing at first, then you running will cause his predatory instincts to kick in and he will run you down. My son has pepper sprayed a large grizzly that charged him, and it worked. A friend of mine shot a sow grizzly in the chest with his hunting rifle, when it charged him. It didn't work for him. He was getting dragged off by the grizzly, still holding on to a rifle that he couldn't use as the bear was too close. My friend ended out throwing away the rifle, hoping that his hunting partner was still around to pick it up and kill the grizzly. Luckily he was, but my friend had to scream several times to get his buddy to shoot the bear (he was worried about shooting my friend instead). He did shoot the bear, and it still kept dragging him. Eventually a third shot finished off the sow. I guess that the moral of the story is, that the pepper spray worked for my son, and the rifle didn't for my friend (if he had been alone, he would be dead). I shot a black bear with an arrow after it charged me. There isn't a lot to shoot at, when they are coming at you head first. I got lucky, in that the bear bluff charged first. My bow was on my back pack, as I'd given up on finding elk that day and was hiking out. I had no bear spray, as it wasn't really grizzly country (although, pretty much anywhere in Western Montana you can find grizzlies now). The bluff charge gave me time to get the bow off my back and get an arrow ready. So now I carry the pepper spray any time that I am bow-hunting, as you never know what predator might be in a bad mood.
Curious...what are the legal ramifications for shooting a charging grizzly? I'm all for self defense and shooting the grizz if the situation calls for it. But has anyone had any direct experience with the aftermath?
Pull out the old Raven .25 Auto and shoot my hunting buddy in the knee cap and calmly walk away!
I almost wish we had a couple Griz so we could tell all the NR they better stay away or get eaten! ;)
One of us in our camp shot a sow two years ago. Investigation was non confrontational. 10 mm turned the bear at 8 yds. I’ve never been charged up there but have had them approach me with a level of disrespect. Very nerve wracking. A good partner should work.
10mm in the air? Or the big middle of?
Right into the front end and immediately turned her. He could have kept pulling the trigger but didn’t
Get big, get loud, get mean.
Have your spray and spray within 20 yards.
Wind in you face? that sucks. Wait till it gets closer and still spray. Better to be have that in your face than a grizz. A hand gun really should be the ultimate last resort, even after playing dead.
When it comes to spraying spray, spray a bit early if you can and create a cloud it runs into. sometimes the noise alone can scare it off.
Again, a gun, even one that can take it down really should be the last resort. Unless you're certain it views you as prey/food(which is rare) i would not use a gun. Even if you hit it in a mortal area. it still has plenty of time to mess you up.
There are plenty of reports and studies out there that show spray is more effective at keeping you safe during a charge for multiple reasons.
Try that spray in a tent. No thanks.
Bang bang for me.
I'd toss my soiled drawers at him....:)
I'm thinking I may start leaving my spray at the truck.
@cnelk
correct!
If a bear is attacking you while you are in your tent it's a completely different scenario. Grizz or black it means they see you as food and mean to eat you. In which case fighting back is your only option, fist, spray, gun, jui jitsu... yes.
Every situation is different for both species. IE with cubs without? surprise encounter or stalking you for over a mile.
There certainly are instances where a gun is warranted but even than you have a better chance of "hitting" the bear with a cloud of 10 second spray vs a singular bullet.
We never had many problem bear up here when hound hunters were allowed to train their dogs all summer. Now they are not afraid and it is common to see them strolling in towns and hitting the dumpsters, bird feeders, and garbage cans. That was when we started trapping them and tried to relocate them. Most made it back to a 12 gauge slug within days after the 3rd attempt.
Watch a few bear spray videos on YouTube. Then imagine a 10 foot bear coming at you at 40mph. That spray doesn’t go very far...at all. I’m out on the spray.
Akbow is that a brown bear or black? Hard to tell in pic? Must have been pretty damn scary. I shot my first black bear a couple years ago hunting with a .35 Rem lever gun at 30 yards. That bear hit the ground flopped then got up and ran about 8 feet by me in like 3 seconds and was so fast I missed two follow up shots at close range but the rifle did have a scope so that was one issue. Anyway, that gave me a good perspective on the speed and how hard it is to hit a running bear not to mention I put a rifle bullet square in the vitals but the bear still had plenty in it to run me down if it had wanted to. I trailed a great blood trail to a dead bear 60-70 yards away. Amazing what they can take.
Gun also a little more handy if you run into wolves. The spray might get one of them, but the other bullets in your gun will get more!
Very very very good info. I am worried about shooting a charging bear, or one that stops at 10 yards and stands up looking at me. That said I would rather be in trouble with the law then dead. I have kid who I promised to come home too. I am going to make up my mind before I leave home but currently 10 yards of less I am probably shooting. Cubs around and my decision to shoot is accelerated.
My partner is in better shape (and I am in good shape) then me so that plan is out...............
Also thanks for all the info. It is very helpful and giving me thing to think about now so we can formulate a plan beforehand.
Also thanks for all the info. It is very helpful and giving me thing to think about now so we can formulate a plan beforehand.
Also thanks for all the info. It is very helpful and giving me thing to think about now so we can formulate a plan beforehand.
https://youtu.be/9c9-K0fSCPQ?t=53
adrenaline going, round in chamber?, steady as a sniper?
can you hit that thing with a singular bullet in a mortal area and have it drop dead within 3 seconds?
I'll stick to my bear spray.
Can't find the stat but I think about 95% of bear attacks are in self defense. IE... bear with cubs, surprised bear, purposely got to close to bear. Thus to get out of those situations safely you either have to...
1... make yourself not a threat(ie... walk away slowly, give a wide berth)
or
2... make yourself not worth attacking and risking injury by the bear. Ie... be bigger and meaner, throw rocks, stand ground, spray with bear spray.
If a bear is attacking in defense it means it's doing so to keep itself(and it's cubs) safe(flight or fight) and sees that as the best option. Doing the above makes attacking not the best option to stay safe, thus it will turn and run. In these situations it's not actively trying to kill you, it's simply trying to make you not a threat to it anymore.
If it's that 5% where it's trying to eat you, than yeah fill it with lead.
know the bear type, know the situation.
Just watched some bear charges on YouTube good lord I hope that never happens ha!
I couldn't care less about bear types or knowing them. One comes within 20 yds of a human on the aggressive or charging then it needs killed. If that is the case the legal ramifications will be null.
Bear behavior and attitudes are definitely different in different areas. From all accounts Wyoming grizzlies are way more apt to be confrontational than the grizzlies I typically run into in BC . But I have to say that is changing here. I (almost) always carry spray, but keep a 12” barrelled pump shotgun in camp for meat situations. I’ve killed a few black bears with slugs. IMO, forget the birdshot if you’re going to be shooting very close range. You may only get one shot and it should be a lethal as possible.
If you insist on the shot, slug, shot, slug mantra, take your gun and start shooting a blank paper starting close. Then keep backing up until you have a dense pattern that covers about a one foot circle. That’s your range for “taking out his face”.
Personally, I wouldn’t be wasting precious time trying to blind him when I’d rather be killing him. An enraged, one eyed bear would be a horrible bugger to deal with, keeping in mind you’d be obligated to follow him up to prevent injury or death to others.
No offense intended Soccer, but it's the 5% you allude to that bear spray will do nothing to keep you alive. It's not accurate that the 5% are only predatory. The one that got to me was protecting her cubs. She went right through the shotgun blast at point blank range and continued her attack. No way she was going to be dissuaded by pepper spray if the blast and slug hitting her didn't. If I had waited to hit her with bear spray I would have lost my chance to deploy lead. If you deploy bear spray at 20 yards and it doesn't stop you will not have time to drop your spray and get a gun out. Just not enough time. Spike--that is a brown bear sow--she had two 2 yr old cubs with her.
