Contributors to this thread:
470" AZ public land bull.
Jimmy John put this giant public land bull down yesterday with his governor's tag. Grossed over 470 inches.
Wonderful Bull. What's going on with that right side? Can't see it all.
He got that “Freaky Fast” this year
Seriously curious, What did that cost?
He owns a little sub shop. He can afford it.
It was his government stimulus tag!:)
Nice bull. Where’s the pic with all crew? I saw one that looked like the Spider Bull crew tagged along.
A ridiculous amount of effort went in to finding and keeping tabs on the bull. Majority of the $$ went back in to Az conservation and JJ literally broke down in tears of gratitude standing over the bull. Really a cool deal .
What an awesome bull! Congrats to the hunter! Cant imagine even seeing a beast like that on the hoof.
Nice elk. What state was that in?
How many were in the "crew" to keep up with it? Did he fly in an shoot the same day? Hopefully he at least had to climb one mountain anyway. Nice bull , even if it was shot before the regular season opens.
Awesome bull. Not too impressed with how it was killed. Had the hunter scouted, located, hunted, and killed that bull by himself, then my hat would be off to him.
As it was, he basically donated a bunch of money to a worthy cause, and was handed a trophy for his wall in exchange. Not that there's anything wrong with that....
Gg how would you feel if Colorado did that and a bull you spotted this summer and watched waiting for stick season got shot in August with a rifle!
That being said JJ reaction at least made me feel a little better. Sounds like he really appreciated what he had and wasn’t one of those guys that pulled the trigger and got back on their private jet.
Buddy of mine has a bow tag in AZ. One of the spots he has been scouting....
Grey Ghost, Look at the bright side......in that recent thread that you started, you were looking for photos of a legitimate 400" bull.....and now you have another one for a reference....400 and then some.....what a bull!
I would also like to know the total cost, including the tag, the scouts, ect. I am no more impressed by the way this bull was killed than I was with the spider bull. I'm more impressed with a person killing a cow or raghorn with an OTC tag. The bull is impressive, not the hunt.
That boy doesn't even look real. I mean I know it is, but wow. There just isn't any hunting that beats bulls with a bow. I'm a DIY guy too but I don't care if someone has help. We're all different. What a bull.
An absolutely amazing bull. Congrats to the hunter.
Is it a bow kill? I know Jimmy does a bunch of bowhunting. How about a picture from the side. Heck of a bull! Congrats to Jimmy!
Let's not get to excited. First off that 7 or 8 on his right side is a little weak and 2 and 3 on his left might be scored with a common base! And of course it looks like he could of used another year or three. I mean come on guys!!!
I don't know what to think about these big organized team "hunts" with a shooter executing the animal in the end. Glad the money went to a good cause. Hopefully no physical intimidation, tire slashing, road blocking, etc.. by the "team" prior to leading Jimmy in. Would be interested in hearing from some other actual hunters who have tags in the same area.
3 years ago after watching him for 45 minutes I missed a monster bull that still haunts me to this day. Shot an inch over his back at 60 yards shooting at a downward angle. Long story but I had been flat on the ground the whole time and when I last ranged him he was tad over 60. That bull would have been roughly 70" less. Dark horned and symmetrical to boot. But this is a behemoth, absolute slob.
Gotta admire the guy for flipping the bird at cancel culture, which has tried repeatedly to harm his business by depicting him as a demon "trophy hunter". He just keeps on truckin'.
Rough country for an ebike, probably used a helicopter for the pack job I'm guessing..
Nope, a pack of young 20 year olds with strong knees and backs to pack him out.
Absolute beauty of a bull...…………………………………..hope he at least packed out the rack! ;-)
Now the anti's will really be protesting Jimmy John's! At least the money made off the tag goes to a good cause.
That’s a great bull. Congrats to the hunter
Good for him and the AZ wildlife dept.
Here he is in velvet last year
Makes me hungry for a sandwich.
Great trailcamea pic licking his nose
Amazing bull. I wonder how they got JJ in and out of there. Looks like rough terrain and looks like JJ is on the 3 foot-longs a day program.
The least the "team" could have done is camped out on that bull for a few more days and let him finish rubbing his horns off. Sheesh!
The man has a net worth of $1.7 billion, according to Forbes. Not too shabby. The $225k for the tag was a non event, financially speaking for him. Likely a charitable donation, as well. Winner, winner, elk dinner! That is, if he even took any of the meat home.....
Glad his money is on our side.
Exactly right midwest! Congrats to him!
Lou there were/are no other hunts going on besides the two other "Special" tags issued that year. These tags are essentially a license to poach. You can hunt in any unit that has an elk hunt and the tag is also good for the whole year. Scouters maybe, but no interference from hunters with an elk tag.
I don't agree with these governor's tags at all. I think the state could make plenty money by raffling off tag but making buyer hunt in season with weapon legal for that season. Can't help wonder how many guys were trying for this bull via normal hunt only to have it killed this way.
Thanks, Heat. Good to know. They have a similar deal here with the "Poaching" Ranching for Wildlife tags, but they are all on private land and they have to issue some public hunting tags for the ranch for the regular seasons.
I am noticing a trend on the few hunting websites I look at, I don't do any social media. Nearly any animal/story posted has a pretty sizable amount of people that can't resist looking for something negative to comment. I used to be able to read through stories like reading a magazine. Now most of the people have moved on somewhere, or don't post their hunting stories anymore.
Thanks for posting the picture of a great bull, neat to see that one made it that long. There are multiple special tags in nearly every state, with the same outfitters hunting them every single year. So it is still pretty miraculous a bull was able to grow to this size.
For the most part we all come here to read stories and see pictures of other bow hunters success. It keeps us excited and entertained through the off season, and during the seasons. Sadly most of these hunting forums will become full of posts with links to news stories, and a small hand full of people bitching back and forth at each other over any and every topic or story posted. Around this time of year, and through the rest of the fall bowsite would be full of stories, people asking questions, and lots of genuine good hunters giving answers and general tips. Through out the month long elk season in Oregon, when I would return to cell service I would check here to see how everyone was doing on the hunts. It was like being around the campfire at the end of the day with friends. I would see others success stories and close calls, and be dying to get back to my hunt after a few days of work.
I'm guessing it's responses like the ones seen in this thread that have pushed away some great bow hunters. There were multiple different frequent posters, that had obviously worked hard in life and and made a great living. They would post long play by play recaps of awesome adventures around the world most of us will never be able to do. I see some still post once in a while, but no more of their hunting stories.
Sadly now you have to be wearing 5 dollar jeans and a cotton t shirt, hunting on an over the counter tag, hunt within a mile of your truck or your an idiot wasting your energy, and kill a spike bull using a cow call since only uneducated elk hunters bugle.
Lot of haters. He is giving lot of money to a cause that will help directly or indirectly all that elk hunt in AZ.
Spot on bowhunt...looks like someone called him a “poacher” Guys a self made billionaire and enjoys hunting. Be a hell of a thing if he was using that money for the anti hunting cause. Ridiculous some of these comments.
Looks like he's not completely rubbed out...that's a cool looking spot where he went down!
Maybe they were waiting for him to get rid of the velvet, before they took him?
Magnificent Public Land bull for sure!
Nobody called anybody a poacher. Don't put words in my mouth. I have nothing against anybody that participates in these hunts in any way. If it's legal, good for them. The 365 day season is the only thing I take any issue with. If you don't like the way I described the tag, that's fine but please don't infer that I am a hater or jealous or whatever. I think 3 of these are fine but that's enough. We've had a few efforts to try to get more and I am against it but that is as far as it goes.
Good for Jimmy John! That is a tremendous bull!
Haters will be haters. If I could afford it, I would do the same thing. I can't so I work my @%% off and have been rewarded by harvesting lot of elk and a few good bulls. This is an amazing bull! He purchased approximately 338 elk tags for one amazing elk. Money going to help all Arizona wildlife.
I respect JJ for having the money to buy a trophy like this bull. And I'm happy the money went to a worthy cause. What rings a little hollow for me is calling this kill a "hunt". I hope I'm dead wrong, but I doubt JJ did much actual "hunting" for this trophy.
Looking forward to hearing the details.
What impresses me is that JJ is self made. Opened a sandwich shop when he was in his 20’s, did fairly well with it!! Kudos to him on having the means to acquire these conservation tags. Congrats to him on a great trophy, he earned it when he was making sub sandwiches back in the 80’s!
Matt I seen pics were you are out fishing with a guide. What does that make you? IMO not much different than most guided anything. Just a big trophy than most trips. Hell if I had a extra quarter of a million I would not even notice missing I'd do the same.
Any other pics of the bull? Would love to see the horns from the side.
bowhunt, there are multiple "special tags" in many states. Good moneymakers for a good cause but I like the way Wyoming does it. You get unit of your choice but hunt in season with same weapon as others. Nothing wrong with that, and I like the idea of raffle better than "high bid" ultrarich hunt.
Not for me but hey.... to each his own. My guess is that eventually guys like that look back and think of better things they could have spent that kind of money on. All judgements aside what a fine specimen of a bull elk!
"Matt I seen pics were you are out fishing with a guide. What does that make you? "
That interesting, John. Considering I've only hired a guide once to learn how to fish for tarpon. And I've never posted any pics of that trip. Perhaps you're mistaking me for someone else?
Look, you can celebrate and admire a "team" kill all you want. But, it doesn't meet my personal definition of a trophy elk "hunt". If you'd like to read about one that does, search for Brun's "The Quest is the Best" thread. That was a true "hunt", by a real hunter who gets it, IMO.
Casting judgement aside (from either angle), its pretty cool to know there are bulls of that caliber on public land. Monarchs roaming some hidden pocket few others know about. It captures my imagination often in the off-season...
To Zim's point, that elk was likely 430+ (if not bigger) the year before and made it another year to grow even more. Cool to know they're out there regardless of how many of us are out trying to find them.
I agree. I admire this bull's ability to avoid being killed long enough to get that big, more than I admire the shooter and team of hired scouts that were required to kill him.
I guess we have to keep in mind that “donations” made toward wildlife betterment would be WAY down if only spike bulls were offered.
And thank goodness there are people who will pay $350,000 for a sheep tag when they could just book the hunt for a fraction of that.
And why shouldn’t they get a great animal of the deal?
I’m thinking he was closer to 400 the previous year. Amazing what he added in a year. Think of what he coulda been next year. ;)
Wow studly bull!! Congrats JJ!
I was simply curious what the hunt, tag, etc. cost. No ill intent. As matter of fact I believe JJ has a new customer, supporting hunters!
Congrats to JJ and what a beautiful animal! Not my cup of tea - but as long as its legal I have no problem with it - sounds like the money is going to the right place as well. Good for him... the more millionaire/billionaires we have on our side the better!!!
What a great bull!! So much negativity though. Just sad!
How many more elk hunting opportunities are provided by the funds from this tag?
I know in the sheep world, particularly in NV (if only because I know it well), there are many more opportunities available now than there were years ago and much of the funding for organizations like WSF, NV Bighorns Unlimited and others are generated by auction tags. Same can be said for local RMEF chapters and their projects.
A hunt like this wouldn’t be my cup of tea but I have no problem with the concept as long as it’s limited to a few tags in each state and other opportunities to acquire the same type of tag are provided. Montana’s Super Tag and Nevada’s Dream Tag programs come to mind.
We need guys with money on our side supporting hunting. This might not meet anybody's definition of a hard hunt but neither does a guided private land hunt for guys that only do DIY public land. Bottom line, they are all hunts and shouldnt be exposed to this much negativity.
Exactly Bowhunt! Jealousy is a learned behavior. Get off yer ass and go buy the next tag if yer so damn smart!
I think it's great that he's self made, has the money to buy this tag, and killed a monster bull. My issue is with the hired spotters/"guides" and their intimidation tactics on some of the other Governors tag hunts. If this didn't happen on this hunt and Jimmy is happy with the process and outcome, good for him. The money went to a good cause. I'm also assuming the money went directly into conservation efforts and the AZ G&F instead of some shysters like Sportsmen For (selling) Wildlife or Big Game Forsale.
Congrats to Mr. Jimmy, it's not the way I would have done it if I'd purchased the tag, but that's his choice and I'm certainly glad he's putting his money down on our side of the table instead of the antis'...
Wow, too damn many haters. He didn't post it saying he was a super hunter. Thank God there are a few people with billions supporting wildlife and bowhunting. Some of you guys are just whiners.
I wonder how many of the haters on this page would do this if they had JJ's money? He did more for elk conservation in AZ with this one hunt than most of us will do in our lifetimes. I go back to the old adage: "If you don't have anything nice to say, then say nothing at all."
I wonder why nobody bashes sheep hunters when they do the exact same thing...hmmmm. I guess they are superior hunters so it`s cool.
Too bad everyone can't just congratulate a fellow hunter,great bull
I would most definitely miss if a critter that size came in a screaming his head off.
Hope the link works, great video of this bull rubbing out his velvet this Year.
I wonder how many regular tag holders had seen this bull, and were hoping for a crack at it when the actual hunting season started.
I just don't care for the "Governors Tag" concept. No one should be able to buy a 365 day elk tag that can be used thru-out the entire state, regardless of how much money it generates for conservation efforts, IMO. And I'm not a fan of these "team" type kills. Hunting along side a single guide is vastly different than having a team of hired spotters camping out on a bull until the shooter arrives.
If that's being a negative hater, so be it.
You're EXACTLY right Matt and it's a shame it's came to this!
Yes, your being a hater.. How old is a bull that size?? How much do you think it weighs on the hoof.. Looks giant
Thats a great vid EMG! I need to save a link and send it to Cody Carr so he can tell clients its a Montana bull. LOL
"I wonder how many regular tag holders had seen this bull, and were hoping for a crack at it when the actual hunting season started."
Quite a few guys but they couldnt get it done in the past. Sucks to suck
"Sucks to suck"
I'd rather "suck", knowing I've given my all to a hunt, rather than resort to hiring a team of spotters to locate and put me on a trophy bull. But that's just me.
Well you arent a billionaire :) You think he has time to pick up a tag and go scout somewhere while managing 1000s of employees and running a multi billion dollar company? I bet he wears diapers everyday because he doesnt have time to take a crap.
"How old is a bull that size?? How much do you think it weighs on the hoof.. Looks giant"
If he's indeed 470 inches, he must have a giant body to go with his rack...the video really puts that into perspective.
"Well you arent a billionaire :) You think he has time to pick up a tag and go scout somewhere while managing 1000s of employees and running a multi billion dollar company? "
Actually, a billionaire has more options than most to treat a trophy hunt exactly how he wants to. He can delegate work responsibilities, and free up as much personal time to dedicate to the hunt as he wants. Or, he can hire people to do the true "hunting", while he waits for a call to come in and pull the trigger. Sounds like JJ chose the latter, but I'll wait for the story to unfold.
I agree Grey Ghost, and NO, I'm not jealous, not poor, and not against any type of legal hunting - and am I personally against this individual or other hunters. I congratulate the hunter and admire this amazing bull - BUT, (and not that anyone cares), I just don't admire, and am not impressed, by this type of hunting. I totally get fired up when a Bowsite guy (or gal) scores on a DIY hunt, with any type, or size of game. But when you hire a TEAM that follows around an animal for months, then drops you in to fire a shot (or fling an arrow), it just can't compare to the accomplishments of many on this site. I stand with him, but could never admire, or be impressed with this hunt.
And one last little thing: if anyone thinks a billionaire doesn't have the time to put in the work, effort, time, energy and commitment to prepare, scout, plan and execute a hunt like this, then don't know many billionaires. Time is money, and money is time - it's the working stiff that doesn't have the time - billionaires have all the time in the world. Again, more power to him, and I hope the money goes to worthwhile conservation projects, but I'm not into it.............and I wish a Bowsiter would have made the kill. Carry on.
If bet he enjoys the elk as much as any of us. Just not the rules and means it was taken by.
just glad the guy 'gets it', got it and is proud to show it, could care less about the rest
That is quite an amazing bull!
That being said I sort of agree with Grey; that type of hunting is not my style. I don't think it's a great accomplishment to take a trophy in that manner any more than bagging a super hot hooker with a bunch of cash. If I had the cash, I'd probably do both though.
Congratulations on the bull of a lifetime! Enough said.
Holy hell Matt, yeah, we get it. Its clear. You’re personal standards are the level in which all others should be gauged by. Damn dude, give it a rest one time. You act like the hunter is bragging. He didnt post it, he aint asking you to be impressed with him.
You feel the way you feel. Dont feel the need to repeat urself a hundred times anytime any random disagrees with you. Make a statement, have some friggin confidence in it and let it ride.
I’m so happy I’m not a billionaire so I don’t have to get bashed by all you haters...
Amazing bull, congrats to the hunter. Unit 23?
Hmmm, someone yank greys last post? Or just an edit by the man himself....
Every time one of these huge elk are posted I am just amazed that much antler is grown in such a short time. Unbelievable really.
Congrats to the hunter and thanks for the contribution to conservation. At 61 I have a huge stack of licenses purchased over a lifetime. It doesn't even come close to the amount this one transaction gifted to conservation.
It’s Bowsite threads like this and others that have absolutely no value to contributors. No wonder Bowsite is going in the shitter and sponsors are dwindling.
A lot of people are genuinely butt-hurt over this.
It’s his money, really not anyone’s business how or what he spends it on, correct?
Beautiful elk and congrats...regardless of what you paid... your money, this is America, spend it how you wish and enjoy your use of it.
So, if it's good for conservation to sell a few of these special tags to the highest bidders, would selling all tags to the highest bidders be even better? Be careful of what you advocate for.
If I ever get the chance to do this, I promise it will b a semi-live Bowsite special
Auction hunts have been offered for a long time now and I have not heard anyone advocate we do it for all licenses. Not a strong argument against it IMHO.
I support this and will never be in a position to participate. The funds and awareness these types of hunts bring to our passion helps ensure hunting will be here for those behind us IMHO. No jealousy here, the guy earned it. Besides, I hardly can criticize when I do go on baited bear hunts in Canada, as you know.
"I support this and will never be in a position to participate."
Keep supporting it, my friend. But don't complain when only the Jimmy Johns of the world can afford to hunt. It's been heading in that direction for a long time. Kills like this only spread more slime on the slippery slope.
Be consistent Matt, hunting responds to supply and demand forces just like oil. The average guy will always be able to hunt as long as hunting is legal. But it will continue to change and hunters will have to adapt or...
I think a lot of guys probably had your same attitude in Europe habitat for wildlife. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think in 20 years hunting as we know it will be very different. 20 years ago guys wouldn’t think bear seasons would be banned, trapping would be banned, predator control would be frowned upon, etc. At some point private land might be the only option and at that point bowsite will cease to exist.
Stop being overly dramatic. To listen to you guys it’s as if the antis are behind this in a conspiracy to end hunting. Auction tags existed 20 years ago and haven’t expanded much since, except for Utah. In fact I know one state for sure where they’ve grown slightly but at a much lower rate than regular tag allocations.
Personally haven't any issue with Governors tags, and think they're great for conservation, but curious was this bull in a hunting unit/zone where a lucky hunter could have drawn a tag through the lottery application, or was he in a designated no hunting zone?...
Congrats to the hunter....
I lol'd at Bigswivle's comment
When I was a kid I wouldn't have believed there would be a deer season and they would be begging us to kill more. I agree things change, and we must change as well. I hope we both will be around in 20 years to know who was right, and if I am not I hope I am not around. Thanks.
On these tags in AZ you have to hunt in an area that offers an elk hunt normally. So it was in an area where another hunter could have drawn a tag and killed that bull during an elk season as far as I know. Hope that helps.
That is what I would guess but I don't really know.
Tilzbow nailed it. Hunting season is almost here, so some of you guys can switch out your tinfoil hat for a camo ball cap.
Here in CA, we have seen a demonstrated increase in sheep tags tied to the deployment of auction tag proceeds. Managed properly, auction tags can be an incredibly effective means to increase opportunity for draw hunters.
The bull was taken in a unit open to “regular” hunters. AZ Governor tags run for 365 days and I believe they start August 1st. You can hunt any open unit with any weapon.
I’m surprised JJ did not come in a few days earlier to take him in velvet. Not how I would do it for sure, but I think JJ does it better than most of the Uber rich dudes. Appreciate his contribution to conservation.
I was told the bull was in a hell hole, he had shed his velvet 2 days before he was killed. Everyone I know that has hunted with JJ say he's a darn nice appreciative guy. He sold the business by the way. Trailcam Pic from this year.
I’m personally not a fan of the way this bull was killed either. That said If I had that kind of money I’d do the same just to listen to you guys cry in your beer.
i heard this was all accomplished on ebikes
the hunter was on a 3 wheeled granny style and the 43 scouts were on std 2 wheelers, but all had 1250w motors with fake 700w stickers on them....either way, i will never go to subway again
Great looking bull......one of the reasons I retired to the White Mountains of AZ!
Some of you guys just love to stir the pot. Looks like some solid 4wd mules to me.
Is it legal to bait with salt in Az? The trail camera pic looks awfully beaten down. Don't know if there is water there but looks like it could be a salt lick. Just wondering...... Mike
Well, at least he got in elk hunting shape before the hunt!
You guys are too much. Salt licks are OK in AZ. This is one of the toughest units in the state terrain wise. JJ put in a lot more effort than the guy a few years ago who shot his velvet bull off the golf course while the lady on the deck was SCREAMING at him not to shoot her elk. Give it a rest...
I love to see the jealousy just pour out of some of you guys.
What an incredible bull! Haters will be haters, and I am not one! Jealousy Sucks!
Governors tags serve a purpose, and support wildlife!!! Who cares what YOU would do, it wasn't your hunt, it was his!!!
What an awesome hunt and animal! I could care less if he killed it with a crossbow in July!
Some people just need to get over themselves!!
It is threads like this I know I would enjoy a campfire with all of you, about my second CR Reserve in hand taking the edge off, just sitting around busting chops calling each other out for how full of crap we all are. God, the laughter would hurt!
I will tell you who earned that bull, it's the animal JJ is riding, and that's coming from a fat man so don't give me any PC crap.
And if I had to ride an ebike like Matt to lose weight, I eat another bag of Oreos.
You're right, Scar Face, I need to " get over myself". I can afford to hire a team to locate and keep tabs on a bull of my dreams, for my trophy hunt this year. But I'd rather get into shape, do my own research, networking, scouting, and find my trophy myself. If I'm lucky enough to kill one of several bulls I've found so far, I'll die a happy man. If not, it won't be for lack of effort on my part. And I'll be cool with that, too.
But that's just me.
Why didn’t somebody kill it last year? Sounds like some would have had no problem doing it.
The guys who make their own bows, arrows and stone points, wonder what they think about the "efforts" of a guy using an ebike, high let-off compound, range finder etc.?
We should certainly try and help each other elevate our game, but I seldom see some of the guys I am referring to give me crap for how I hunt, outside of the Leatherwall. It's ok to state a position, and when done, move on. Harping gets old with anything, hunting, politics...
Here on Bowsite, are we allowed to have an opinion on a hunt, even if it differs from your opinion...? Or, if our opinion differs, are we just jealous, butt-hurt, haters and sour-grape guys...? How 'bout we let other hunters express their opinions with hurling insults at them when they do, or not - I really don't care. I support this hunter, I just don't care for this type of hunting, simple.
By the way, if JJ sold his business, and he's still a billionaire, how is it (as a couple have noted on this thread), that he didn't have the time to do any scouting, hunting, preparing, and planning on his own...? Just wondering how busy someone can actually be when they have retired super-wealthy...? (and I'm happy for him and all his successes).
I don’t really like his sandwiches....
This place is turning into AT.
Anyone have his phone number?
We could use some coin for TV airtime to keep wolves out of Colorado! How many guys sent their money in to Coloradans protecting wildlife or stopthewolfpac.org? It might save your next elk tag.
Hey Grey Ghost, didn’t you used to be an outfitter?
I feel it already has turned into AT
Boy, some of you are pretty thin-skinned. Does everything have to be all "kum ba yah" all the time with you folks? We all have opinions, and I voiced mine. Albeit, I probably voiced mine to many times on this thread, and I'll try to work on that. But I don't think I called anyone a "hater" or took any personal cheap shots at any of you. Heck, I didn't even comment on JJ's physical fitness, or lack thereof, like some of you.
This will be my last post on this thread. Sorry to ruffle feathers. And thanks to those of you who reached out to me in PM's. It's nice to know others share my opinions on this one.
One of the best things to come out of the Special Tag program in Arizona is the partnership between Game and Fish and the Sportsmen. We keep each other engaged and honest. One can't accomplish the duty without the other. The Sportsmen raise the funds, transfer them to Game and Fish, then work with Game and Fish to prioritize the projects and oversee how the dollars are spent. Essentially all of the money goes directly back to the wildlife and the habitat. That partnership is key.
Auction tags have been great for sheep in NV and as a result of that funding and the hard work of NDOW and volunteer organizations such as NBU we now have more sheep than any other state in the lower 48 and more opportunities for all hunters as a result. Great trade off as far as I’m concerned! Now if I could just draw a CA Bighorn Sheep tag!
I have no issue as far as competent and ethical outfitters and guides. I’ve used them in the past, enjoyed the hunts immensely and learned a ton from the good guides but I prefer DIY.
I can’t ever see myself doing a hunt like this one. Not my cup of tea, too much “help” and it wouldn’t be satisfying to me at this point in my life regardless of the horns. That said this freaking bull is an incredibly impressive animal that was shot by what seems to be a good dude so congrats to him!
" We all have opinions, and I voiced mine."
Yep, 11 times.
Everybody's idea of a hunt is different and as long as it's legal I really don't care. Im not a big fan of any auction tags but am glad the money is going to a good cause and the hunters that can afford them are on our side. Amazing bull and congrats to the hunter.
Question for Ed and Roy: This bull looks like he has an extra point between the usual 2nd and 3rd points, but they're symmetric. Would those points count towards a net score?
It is OK to have an opinion and keep it to yourself.
Matt. Yes but it's at your peril
Better think through it!!
Heat and several other seem to get it!
When will we stop hating on each other for the way WE / or you choose to hunt ?!?!?!?
Who Cares? If you have the scratch, go do it! Live life to it's fullest!!!
It's really sad to here people and there negative comments on this hunter and his awesome bull. If we are all hunters shouldn't we be sticking together? As far as the cost of these hunts go whats the problem, we all graduate from different levels of education and in reality when you open your front door and look out into the world its yours for the takin. If you want to make 10 grand a year great but if you want 1.7 bill and hunt all the time that opportunity is there for the taking you just got to go get it.
I wonder what people would say if this JJ fellow had bought a 10,000 acre ranch and done the exact same hunt with the same result on his own land?(All variables being the same- just happened on PRIVATE land vs PUBLIC.)
If he bought a 10,000 acre ranch and had guides put him on the elk? Yeah, I wouldn't be impressed with the so called "hunt" but would still admire the animal.
Here's the hunt from a guy that had been watching the bull.
All you guys saying KUIU is just for skinny guys just got silenced!!! Freaky Fast!!!
Sounds like JJ is pretty good with the rifle! Not many guys can shoot 1,000y consistently!
And KUDOS to the guy in the video for NOT trying to run that bull off!
Destroyer, I was so-so about the whole thing until I saw that video. That was pitiful. The whole thing. How many guys were there?! 30??? Don’t shoot, you might hit his antler. Let’s just let him suffer for a while longer. Embarrassing.
Different strokes...I guess Congrats to JJ on a great shot and bull.
Not bashing but.. Not even in the universe of Comprehension on what a hunt is and means to me.
a picture is worth a thousand words and a video is worth a million.
if ever the campfire conversation is slowing down, passing that video around should pick up the conversation. So many topics of discussion in that clip.
I wonder how much that custom-made wide angle lens cost? Even with it they could barely get the entire crew in the frame.
The time from 14:14 through 18:00 make me want to puke. Shame on all that were involved with the "killing". The animals we hunt deserve a better ending than this one got.
How is the mule doing?
Hope it gets remainder of the year off.
I don't understand making an animal suffer for several minutes when a quick follow up shot would have ended it there. It says alot about the people involved.
Creed, they said “don’t shoot, you might hit the horn”. I bet a lot of people that were defending the first picture and busting GG balls might have a slight change of heart after watching that video.
It was legal and he contributed a ton of $ to AZG&F, so I guess its ok. At least he was honest and admitted he wasn't a hunter, but he just hires hunters. He made a hell of a shot with a well-tuned rifle. Congrats on that.
If Michael Moore wanted to make a film portraying hunting in it's most stereotypical worst light, starring a rich fat guy who buys a special license that lets him hunt out of season, who can barely get off a mule and walk 30 yards after shooting across two canyons at a bull his team of 20 guides found and camped on, then letting it flop around and struggle for awhile instead of taking a finishing shot because he might hit an antler, this would be a good start.
Amen, Lou. Was hard to watch.
Lou X2, I wish I could un- watch that.
Very mixed emotions for me on this topic. I'm happy for JJ and for his success, in business and on this "hunt". He really came from nothing and built a very successful business. The American Dream. The money he spent on the tag will be used for wildlife and habitat management. On the flip side, how can you call this a hunt with 20+ people doing the hunting and JJ pulling the trigger and riding a mule to the victory party? If he were a real hunter he would of at least got his fat ass in shape and made an effort to stalk the bull on his own. I'm sure he is thrilled to have this unbelievable bull in his trophy room. I'm more impressed with all of you out there with raghorns shot with a bow on DIY hunts. Not a hater. BTW, I prefer Jersey Mike's over Jimmy Johns. :)
In these premier states and units. A good start would be each tag holder can only have so many people assisting in any way. And they carry a permit from the tag holder.
Besides pushing the boundaries of fair chase. It’s not fair to any other tag holders. (Not in this case) but everyone has stories of spotters impacting an actual tag holders hunt.
As it stands the top tier outfits won’t do it on their own because some hunters would book an outfit that will put 20 people on an animal. As long as it was equal I’m sure the outfitters wouldn’t mind. Outfitters aren’t the worst at gang hunting by any means.
I didn’t even understand why the dude that made the video would want a replica of Jj’s bull. Offered as a gift for not blowing the bull out the night before.
Was a great shot though. Can’t deny that.
It truly is a double edge sword. It is great the money goes to AZGFD, but If it were truly about conservation, the rich dude would just donate the money. In fact, and I’ve seen this dozens of times, say raffling of a wolf pelt at a huge conservation banquet...the pelt is auctioned off to the highest bidder. The high bidder immediately donates it back and the auction happens again and again. If it were TRULY about conservation, why not buy the tag then donate it back for a raffle and let us poor bastards buy raffle tickets for it, doubling the money for conservation. Or buy the tag for $225,000 and say, “just make it $1,000,000.”
I watched the video. How many of you did? Absolutely pitiful. How small of a person do you have to be to do that? I agree that it looks like the bull was salted in there to a camera and someone probably told someone about it and so forth until this fiasco. Pitiful. Matt is absolutely right.
"Jed Larson should not even be able to guide in the state of Arizona after taking a client with an arizona tag on the san Carlos reservation to kill a bull"
The above was the first comment. Did the guide, or one of the guides, do something wrong?
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but some of you guys seemed to have changed your tune (mine has stayed the same) or are remaining suspiciously quiet now that the video comes out. Not to mention calling, guys like Grey Ghost, names for NOT endorsing or supporting this type of hunting. I counted NINETEEN (19) guys, maybe more, in the group of "hunters".....not to mention the needless, purposeful suffering of a majestic animal. I'm not jealous, envious, unhappy or portraying sour grapes - and I'm fortunate to have the money to do almost any kind of guided hunt (but I would NEVER spend that kind of money on a hunt), BUT, having said that, for whatever it's worth - I'm just NOT into it. I'm happy for the hunter, but my respect and admiration goes to DIY Bowsite hunters that put in the time, energy, effort and commitment to execute a hunt that honors the animals we pursue - in my opinion this type of hunt does not do that.
Watching that bull die for 5 minutes was tough.... I took a screenshot, and just can't understand why, with his shoulder completely uncovered, another round wasn't put in him to end it sooner. Like someone above said.... that would make a tremendous anti hunting documentary. No sour grapes on the tag, the hunter, whatever.... but the guy obviously knows the rifle, as he was talking about killing a sheep @ 1000 yards, right before he shot this elk. Another shot should have been taken. Period.
Not suspiciously quiet here, just been busy... I did receive a PM giving me a heads up on this and am getting ready to head to the farm to hang stands but felt a response was warranted. I speak only for myself.
Obviously agree with everyone that this is terrible, it should have not happened in a manner that the animal suffered as long as it did. And the recording should have never been shared! I hope JJ and crew learn from this and commit to doing better in the future. That's what is most important IMO.
That said, who here has not made a questionable judgment call hunting? Am I the only one that made a poor hit and watched an animal take too long to perish and anguished over whether to try and move in for another shot and take the chance the animal's adrenaline may make it try and flee and suffer longer? Maybe I am but I doubt it.
I am also bothered by those who think this recording justifies their criticism that was repeatedly doled out before they even knew of this recording. I guess this validates their words in their mind, but not in mine. If the film had shown an honorable killing and actual work by JJ, we probably would not have heard the critics take back anything either. I gave the man the benefit of the doubt, which is what I ask for as a flawed human for myself.
I hunt hard, this is not my style, but it was legal. Even if I could afford this I would like to think I would pass. Yet, I have hired guides to bear hunt over bait and many would criticize me for that, some of the same that criticized JJ. You don't like another hunter's approach, it's OK to say so. Doing it repeatedly looks like nothing more than chest thumping to me and eventually I begin to ask why a person feels the need to do so. Maybe there is more to the story than what they are letting on?
"Am I the only one that made a poor hit and watched an animal take too long to perish and anguished over whether to try and move in for another shot and take the chance the animal's adrenaline may make it try and flee and suffer longer? "
Are you talking about bow hunting? Big difference between sneaking in for a follow up shot with a bow, and sending some more lead down range with a rifle.
+1 PECO. Looked like plenty of opportunities to lob more bullets into that old fella, especially for an accomplished long range shooter like JJ. But then he might hit an antler....
Was he baiting that bull for the camera? There were some rocks and a hole right where the camera was facing. “He likes to bed here”. I’ve never seen an area where an elk beds in exactly the same place under a tree. That rock pile obviously was man made. Is baiting legal there?
The video doesn’t change my opinion it’s pretty much what I would have expected from a governors tag. Not how I hunt at all but it was completely legal. As for the guy narrating at the beginning, it sounds to me like the people he was telling about this bull were passing it on to A3. Moral of the story is if you know about these types of animals it’s best to keep it to yourself.
No body knows how long it took that bull to die. I never saw him roll to his side and do the "death kick". He might have hung on until the army made it across those two canyons.
I agree that an animals suffering is not a great image for tv. That said as a hunter if I were worried about animals suffering, I would put my bow away and shoot every animal in the head with a rifle. I’ve done that and trust me there’s no suffering but I don’t think we want that portrayed on tv either. Animals suffer but I believe the team hunt with shots 1000 yards away are more harmful to hunting than animals suffering. That said I congratulate JJ and his team, great bull.
I've seen head shots blow the bottom jaw off and send the animal running off to die a horrible death. Helped a guy try to track a cow moose he shot in the "head" at 50 yards. Never found her after her mouth stopped dripping. Have seen the same thing happen with a deer and an antelope. You're right, suffering is part of hunting. But as ethical hunters I think we all try to minimize it as much as possible. I guess that's what bothered me about the video.
I was not trying to say sneaking in with a bow and what he did with a rifle are the same. What I am trying to convey is we have all had less than ideal outcomes if we have hunted long enough. I have never had an entourage follow me around with multiple cameras while I hunted. Lots of suggestions happen in situations like that and you may not even consider them if by yourself.
Take anyone's worst day and we can all be criticized. Again, to me what is important is learning from our lapses and moving forward.
No problem with someone disagreeing, do have a problem with piling on. But that's just me I guess.
Habitat, of course we’ve all made bad shots and we’ve all made animals suffer, but I’d like to hear from anyone that decide an animals suffering was ok and they decided not to end it when given the chance.
The rotten bugger......
I bet he lives in a big giant flippin mansion or three and prolly never put a hammer to nail in any of em....... lazy bastage.... =D
Good for him. I like hunters. And you'd have to be pretty high on your horse to say the man wasn't/isn't a hunter. AND hunting is not about how much (or how little) money you spend on hunting, or how much help you had to do so, paid or pro-bono (just cuz somebody likes your sparkly smile....). He likely spends but a sliver of his money on hunting. He surely doesn't spend a quarter of his income on hunting like, um.... a friend i know......
Good for him, on many levels. Maybe lost on some, but he made lots of other folks money too.... some maybe went on their own hunts. Congrats on a slobbering stud of a bull. wow.
But I do bet that bull was LBGTXYZ to have lived so long.... heheheheh..... onward bowsite! Crusade!
TD, it was he who said he wasn't a hunter in the video. He is a shooter who hires hunters to find and get the game for him. He said that too.
Habitat, I've never had a bad day that I could have made right, but didn't. He should have finished off that bull. Change my mind.
This has been great, getting me excited for the annual Randy Ulmer discussion.
I actually enjoyed the video. What an incredible animal. That dude was straight up with what part he played and what he wasn’t. AND that was an incredible shot. Dead on his feet from 1,000. Interesting back story to it too. I wouldn’t hunt like that even if I could but I don’t begrudge the guy one bit. Life’s short. It’s Just an elk hunt.
"Dead on his feet"? I must have watched a different video.
I wasn't there. Maybe the wind picked up, maybe he was not in the same location as the camera man? Etc...
From only what we see, that is not a hunt I would be proud of, nor a hunt I would let get circulated. But again, we might not have all of the facts.
And I am not trying to change anyone's mind, just offering an opinion.
Dead tired, heading to the sack. But while working at the farm this thread kept coming into mind. One thing I decided, I am glad I typically hunt solo!
JJ might need to lay off the white bread, his face doesn't look as old as his body appears in the video. Wheat bread brother, wheat bread.
I like that fact that a guy that looks like he would fit in with any redneck picnic...loves huntin...and SPENDS his money energizing all the people around him
HE may say he's not a hunter, I can't.... or won't. This isn't his first nor only rodeo. Everybody entitled to their opinions. Sounds like a good self depreciating guy who doesn't take himself too seriously. IMO, yeah, he's a hunter. Certainly not a poacher..... someone who would deserve derision. Guess I'm kind of a black or white guy. He's no anti hunter. I'm not sure there's such a thing as a kinda sorta hunter? Be like being just kinda pregnant.....
He was being self deprecating/humble and complimenting his guides when he says he is not a hunter. He’s had more Governors tags than many here have seasons. Again definitely not how I would do it but it could, and it definitely has been much worse on many of these “special” tag hunts. Amazing animal. The video could be a LOT better with some editing.
I think it's productive, and expected, that we all have different views on what hunting "should" be and how it is portrayed to the general public. And that we can have a (mostly) civil discussion about it here.
Jaq of course a jaw shot is not a head shot. Just as a gut shot is not a lung shot. That said a head shot probably dispatches an animal before they have time to “suffer”. Even the best lung or heart shot with an arrow can cause the animal to “suffer” for 15 seconds or longer. It’s kinda like the ethics of how far to shoot. It’s not black and white. The suffering may have been egregious. Hard to say with edited video. Either way my point was that I think what this video portrays has bigger issues.
Jimmy Johns might be freaky fast but I prefer Firehouse any day of the week. BTW nice bull congrats to JJ.
why long arm a 470" bull ??
I am NOT impressed . I feel sorry for that magnificent animal. And totally dismayed a 'gun kill' is posted (yet again) on The BOWsite .........but that's just me! .... Everything it seems revolves around 'the almighty dollar' and I detest that always. Hunting and taking of a life is very personal to me as a Bow Hunter and I am sorry most do not share that feeling or interpretation. ..... This Bull Is / Was a Magnificent Animal !
^...if this GUN kill wasn't posted on BOWsite....you/we might not have seen this magnificent animal. I personally don't mind seeing someone's animal regardless of legal method.
Not necessarily about this particular hunt.....but I do have some partial agreement about the possibly negative influence of money on certain aspects of hunting or fishing.
Truly magnificent bull. As an antler guy, I think polished elk antler is some of the prettiest stuff you'll ever see and smell. However, this bull was killed before he was polished up and sadly resembles the "game farm" look. I realize the money goes to a good cause but I also feel for folks who wait a long time or spend considerable money when they draw one of these AZ tags and get the cream picked right off the top by someone who gets to play by different rules.
I was struck reading the story at first but then bewildered as I watched the you tube video. This was what's known in the corporate world as "team concept." I don't know if I counted somewhere north of 17 guys. They are all taking photos and then the measuring tapes come out and the "guess the closest score" contest concludes. JJ rides up like Hoss Cartright after everyone else arrives and he makes the 20 yard hike up to the bull with trekking poles??? JJ is obviously happy and doesn't forget the little guy as he thanks the "team" for living with the bull during the previous 3 days.
I don't often get blown away but this is at a meteoric different level than any hunting I've ever done. Wow.
Keep in mind we are talking about a BILLIONAIRE here. The average hunter has very little in common with anything any billionaire does. That said, definitely not my style and I like to think I would operate differently even if my bank account did have that many zeros!
Always been a lurker on this site, and this seems like a good convo to jump in on.
Its awesome how much money went to conservation for this bull, but that video definitely rubs me the wrong way. I kept wondering which guy JJ was. Even heard one of the guys ask if they had scored the bull yet prior to him even getting there.
I am surprised a still-shot of that video with ~20 guys in the frame all with their phones out hasn't made some sort of news yet. I know that's not how the vast majority of us hunt, but that doesn't matter to the people that are on the fence about supporting the sport.
I'm kinda hearing "the bull suffered....." even from a few bowhunters I'm guessing. Maybe some folks have to be reminded..... just because nobody was there to hear it..... the tree did indeed fall in that forest. You didn't have to watch the "suffering" of the animals you normally shoot because basically you weren't there to watch it. And obviously, as in that's how it happened.... that was a dead bull after the first shot. (I thought I heard a second shot when he jumped and ran a bit after the initial hit? Maybe not.) If the bull took the hit and ran over the ridge, they gave it a couple hours and found it dead..... my guess is nobody would say boo. Why? What happened was exactly the same, they just didn't have to watch it. So it never happened....
Guess nobody has ever made a bad hit and found an animal still alive HOURS later..... "but.... I didn't do it on purpose...." Nobody would and neither did they, and honestly it was a pretty good hit. Elk can take a good hit even from a rifle. A second or third shot (from near a 1000 yards remember) in the guts would not have helped much WRT "suffering".... maybe had been worse. Guides knew it was dead. He listened to them. As he should have.
WRT how many guys involved and public perception..... I'd bet that's mostly a factor only in some hunting circles. Often DIY only circles or archery only circles or even trad DIY only circles..... smaller and smaller circles it would seem as it goes down the line. My guess is most urban non-hunters pretty much expect that's how it is all the time. They expect people, crowds even, around all the time everywhere. It's their life. Honestly.... "alone" literally freaks most of em out. If it's an issue, it's a hunter issue, not a non-hunter issue. IMO.
Money? That's another multi angled issue that can be honestly debated..... but at times opposition based on the wrong reasons, envy and such. It's a jagged nasty edge that can creep up on anybody. But it can be argued the commercialization of a traditional sport and lifestyle is bad. It can also be argued that hunt had pretty much zero effect on anybody else's hunt other than opportunity on that one specific animal. But that happens pretty regularly too. Did he have an unfair advantage because of his money? Yeah, undeniably did. Did the benefit to hunters overall and wildlife management outweigh the negative? Certainly something that can be debated.... obviously either way. Taken to extremes..... anything, even good things, can be negative. It's a subject worth discussion for sure. Could be changes made in the future without effecting the benefit? Maybe so.
Reasons for hunting? Goals? Some tall weeds there. I've met a couple very wealthy folks, $100,000 front doors salvaged from Irish castles, in their vacation home.... they do things differently and take challenge differently. We hunt with sharp sticks theoretically for the challenge, we make the odds of success more difficult.... sometimes taking risk of failure higher yet embracing the challenge, taking on the odds. We get that satisfaction and reward in a sometimes masochistic way, by losing so often and even physical distress. Most folks..... while some are high risk thrill seekers and gamblers..... most really love home runs and slam dunks. They love to "win". And going home with a "loss" hurts. They don't like to hurt. My feeling is many who try hunting, especially bow hunting, soon quit because of lack of success. Many if not most would trade some money for better success... and they do. The wealthy rarely have issues with advantages wealth may give them. The goal is the prize for many, for others the goal is the struggle for the prize. For others yet a struggle is just a struggle. And for even others yet, struggling at what seems unfairly easy for others is a frustration. Human nature. We're all human.
Different people are...... different..... damn weeds anyway.....
THE Bowsite philosopher!
Posse Hunting at its finest.
After reading some posts on here it is no surprise that we have lost many very well accomplished hunters, including at least 3 super slammers that decided its not worth the constant arguments to post here any more. Its a real shame.
What an absolutely amazing bull and congrats to JJ.
Td, the issues is that he had the opportunity to end the bulls suffering and didn’t because he didn’t want to “hit the horn.” Animals suffer, animals die, if you’re the type of guy that is ok with that when you can end it then you’re a POS.
Can we disagree without the juvenile name calling?
The man put a lethal shot on the bull from 1,000y ...............I can just hear the comments if he had lobbed a few more rounds from that distance and hit it in the head, guts and/or rump!
Come on, the guy, as some of you have said, put a hell of great, amazing, shot on the bull from 1,000 yards. Some of you have said he is a long range expert marksman, etc. He wasn't lobbing, he didn't get lucky. He has the shooting skills. He could have, and should have, shot again, he would have hit his mark. Or maybe, just maybe, he should not be shooting that far at live animals. What was the energy of his bullet at that distance? The first "lethal" shot with a bullet should not be a five minute suffering.
He was either a great shot, and effective to 1000+ or he was a slob shooting too far. You guys can’t have it both ways. Either he made the shot once and he could do it again, or he shouldn’t have taken the first shot because the chances are he would have gut shot him the second time.
Do we know for certainty that JJ and the camera man responsible for the unobstructed view were in the same location? If so, I tend to agree he should have tried to end the suffering. Still contend this video should have never been released for public consumption. What Lou said about using this against hunters resonates. Hopefully JJ was not in a position to make another shot, or some other variables came into play that were not present at the time of the first shot.
Unless someone that was actually there speaks up, we are all just surmising.
Somehow ethics, other peoples ethics, always seems to creep into the equation. I do not know enough facts to offer an opinion, the rest of you can speculate.
Peco and Ucsdryder- you should know it is just not that simple! When you are shooting(especially at THAT distance), there are a lot of variables that come into play. We have no idea what happened after that initial shot. There may have been a very good reason or reasons for him not to shoot again. Did the wind pick up? Did he have some kind of equipment failure? Rest just not quite right? Or maybe he was just so excited and adrenaline pumped after the first shot(on a bull of a lifetime), he could not settle down enough to get off another ethical shot? At 1000y, everything has to be (and feel) perfect...................................and I won;t sit here behind my pc and criticize the man for not following up on a good, lethal (first)shot.
And what is the time limit on "suffering"............................................30 seconds? A minute? 3 Min? 5 min? 15 min? 30 min?
I shot a buck one year that I watched run 20y and then bed down in a rododendrun thicket at 40y from me. No way I could get close to it and no clear (followup)shot from my treestand. I watched it for at least 15 min (thru binos)before it laid over in it's bed. I knew the shot was a lethal one and if I waited patiently in my treestand and did not push it, I would find it dead where it laid- which I did. It wasn;t optimal, but sometimes things don;t go exactly as planned.
Rut, except for the part where he said “don’t shoot, you might hit the horn.” Then he shot him again when he moved so obviously he wasn’t too excited to shoot. Watch the video. It basically dispels all your “what-ifs”.
So he shot a second time? I must have missed that. But if that is the case, then I do not understand all the criticism of no follow-up shot?
Anyone truly concerned about suffering should not be hunting, especially with a bow and arrow. Suffering will happen, all kills are not instantaneous.
Personally, I am not sure how to define suffering as it relates to wild animals. Wolves are largely protected and admired by many, but it sure seems they make their prey suffer a bit.
Rut, he took a walking shot from a 1000 yards after he refused to take a broadside because “he might hit a horn”.
Suffering happens, when you can end the suffering but choose not to, thats the issue. No different than hitting a deer with your car and watching it lay on the side of the road when you have a gun and can end its suffering immediately.
Ok I’m done, back up the mountain today to go chase bugling bulls! There won’t be any 470” but that’s ok! ;)
"Don't shoot, you might hit the horn" can and should be taken more than one way.
Hitting a horn is going to do nothing to end suffering and would likely prolong it since doing so might've caused the bull to have an adrenaline rush, possibly run off and live and suffer even longer. If I was in the same situation, whether at 1,000 yards with a rifle, 100 yards with a rifle or 20 yards with a bow, there's no way I'd shoot with a horn covering the vitals. That said, as soon as the kill zone opened up I'd take another shot, as would most of us.
JJ himself has an impressive rack.
Some of the guys on an AZ hunting forum are saying there was a total of 11 shots fired. Rumors
The bull is lying on his side... shoulder exposed. For 4+ minutes. At whatever range he was initially shot from. I have absolutely no issues with the tag, the shot, how many people helped, JJs brand of socks.... none of it. The issue I personally have is that he did not take a follow up shot to kill that bull sooner. Say qhat you want about "animal suffering" .... I look at it this way, IF I have the chance to end any suffering SOONER than it would take for said animal to die, I would take that shot.... rifle, bow, spear, sling shot.... whatever. IF it were in the realm if possibility to make that animal die sooner, I'd at least try to do so.
Does suffering happen, unintentionally, at the hands of ethical hunters? ABSOLUTELY. BUT, I'll also say this, I don't know anyone who would let that animal linger, longer than absolutely need be, if the situation were presented to put a follow up shot on it, and just end it as soon as possible.
That's my only problem with the whole thing. JJ is spending his $$$ the way we all probably would if we had a limitless budget (on hunting, in general). He seems like a pretty decent dude. I'll eat at Jimmie John's MORE, because of this video/post..... I just wish he'd have taken another shot. That's all folks.
Even if I was a billionaire I hunt because I enjoy the hunt and rather it not be easy. I’d probably own some decent land if I could afford it and would do diy hunts around the country. I don’t want or need a guide to take me by the hand as to me that defeats the whole purpose of the hunt!
This very well connected man just took a fantastic bull and im happy as hell for him. We should all be happy for him wether he sboots 1 shot or 10. With a bow or a rifle at a 1000yards. Who cares! He's a hunter & on our team & not an anti.. Im glad his money is going toward conservation. And if he paid a $100k for the tag even better!
Rough country Hoss Cartright was a stud he came in and cleaned house when little Joe got into more trouble than he could handle. JJ might slap ya with a 3 foot sub.
How many DIY Arizona hunts are possible thanks to Income generates from Governers tags? Wouldn’t it be interesting to be able to follow that trickle down effect? Like maybe your biggest AZ bull was a direct result of $ from such a tag that created more and better elk numbers.
Or even your best DIY OTC Colorado bull that you got and thankfully the other guy wasn’t in “your” drainage because he was off in AZ that year because he drew a special tag where there are food trophy elk numbers thanks to income from a Governors tag. It would be interesting wouldn’t it? How many Americans would it touch?
I love the comments about “his shoulder was open.” What kind of groups do we suspect JJ is shooting at 1,000 yards? 3”? Highly doubt it. Even if, let’s say he can hit a pie plate, I doubt I was the only one counting the “one thousands” as the bullet arced across the canyon. After the bullet leaves the barrel that bull could easily move and put its antlers anywhere else.
I mean obviously this hunt isn’t the way a DIY bow hunter enjoys conducting himself, but let the innocent toss the first stone. I have to admit I once let a caribou bull suffer too long because I wanted to kill him with archery equipment. I could have killed him with a rifle, heck I could have ensured a better first shot with a rifle as compared to a bow. The rifle was fully legal, but I personally made the choice that I wanted to get him with archery equipment. I even had a rifle handy in case of wolves and neglected to use it.
Like I say- my idea of a perfect hunt? No way, but am I gonna judge him? Heck no. Congrats on a whopper.
A seemingly all around good guy with piles of self made dough, willingly pays a mountain of cash for a tag that benefits EVERYone here and kills a spectacular bull, yet the judgemental, jealous and/or self righteous keyboard jury members come out in full force. Your faces look funny without your noses.....
I've never eaten at a Jimmy Johns, but I'm finding one and buying a big sammich. Even though JJ doesnt own it anymore.
Jealousy surfaces in many forms, ...including good ole internet ethics.
Lol the hardest part of that hunt was hopping his ass on and off the horse!!!!
It always amazes me that some people just can’t comprehend that some things don’t sit well with everyone, for one reason or the other.. If you don’t jump on the fanboy bandwagon with open arms you’re either jealous, a hater, or____fill in the blank. SMH!
Opinions are fine, internet ethics from the armchair oftentimes leave a bit to be desired. Comments about wealth, difficulty of the hunt, etc are jealousy, period.
“Comments about wealth, difficulty of the hunt, etc are jealousy, period”
What you posted is nothing more than your opinion. What makes you think your opinion is any more reasonable or valid than someone else’s opinion that may differ from yours? I’ll give you a hint...it isn’t.
It is too bad a lot of liberal/socialists, including some hunters, despise financial success through hard work. Must be some form of white privilege. That too is simply my educated opinion.
I’m not going to guarantee I missed one or two posts that mentioned anything about despising financial success, but I sure didn’t see any. Quite the opposite. Apparently, according to your “educated” opinion, anyone that is of the opinion that this hunt wasn’t their cup of tea is a liberal/socialist. Once again, your opinion of your opinion is greatly exaggerated.
Don’t we as dedicated and ethical hunters celebrate and make it all about the animal??
That’s the knock against record books that often comes up. Too hunter centric. Why is this all about the hunter?
For most, they had no chance of going to this tea party. I wish well for those who can.
Nice bull. Taken legally as far as I can determine. Apparently his money (Lots of it) is being put to good use. What’s not to like, unless you are jealous of financial success, and he didn’t take it the way you (we) have to hunt. Congrats JJ.
I’m not jealous of financial success whatsoever but what I’m wondering is why do most successful people not seem to hunt hard like the less successful people? How do you consider yourself a hunter when bypass the actual hunting part?
Spike78, he may well not have the time to scout several weekends, and spend a week or so hunting. So, he can not hunt, or pay people to do the scouting etc for him. Is he missing out on a lot of the enjoyment by not scouting and planning the hunt, absolutely. Alternatively, he could skip hunting and do something else. Or worse yet, use his money to be an anti hunter.
This is why big bulls and Rams, etc, stay close hold and don’t see light of day.
I love when people through out the jealousy card. You don’t know me from Adam. You think I’m jealous of that situation. Laughable. I’ll take a diy 220” Colorado archery bull over that circus.
Dale who knows? All I know is that I’m the type of person that takes satisfaction in bagging an animal all on my own from kill to grill. If I just wanted to pay to shoot an animal in a fence I wouldn’t even hunt. I’ve had friends that would say they quit hunting because they never had the time but the truth is they all had time to do other things. It is simply that they did not have the passion to hunt like most all of us on Bowsite.
Add me to the "jealously-is-a-stupid-comment" club. I'm NOT jealous in the least, I'm actually happy for the hunter - it's just not a hunt that I admire, or respect. Calling someone "jealous" because they have a different opinion than your's is simply being intellectually lazy. How could someone have any idea what's in the mind, or heart, of another. I'm totally fine with other hunters supporting this type of hunt, but don't assume something you have no idea about - what's next, you're gonna tell me about my bank account....? Stupidity beyond belief.
Losers, all the way around. No one in particular, some hunters have earned the title. You know who you are, lol.
You’re right Missouri, there are those of us who are hunters, although I wouldn’t call it a title, it’s more of who and what we are. Then there are those that are keyboard cowboys that have nothing better to do than sit at their keyboard and act like a petulant child when others don’t share their opinion. We all know who those are as well.
What is even more intellectually lazy than calling someone jealous or a hater, is calling them "butt hurt" when they call you out on your bullshit.
Paul at the fort, now there's a real hunter !
I remain unimpressed.
Yeah, the bull is huge.... and you know what? I just can’t bring myself give a half a damn. The only thing missing here is the fence.
Now, if Paul can come off the mountain with ANY legal Elk, he will have my utmost respect. If you don’t/can’t or won’t see the difference, I’m not going to waste anybody’s time arguing over it.
And FWIW, there are those who do things the way that they do and believe that their way is the right way....and there are those who think through what the right way is and conduct themselves accordingly.
Just remember, Jimmy John wasn’t the guy that posted the video looking for credit...
JJ was the guy thanking all the guides. Now, I’m fairly certain he paid more for the guide service than he did the $225,000 he did for the Governor’s tag. He was the boss out there...I’m glad when my boss appreciates the good job I do. Seems like a good boss not an Ahole.
I did not know he sold his sandwich business. This will free me up as I always supported his business knowing he was a hunter. Just like I go out of my way NOT to stop at Starbucks.
This is the third or fourth time I’ve said this. That is not how I would do that hunt if it were my tag. I’m not going to run down the way he did it because it doesn’t match my way. The Bowsite is an odd place to show a long range rifle kill but I am glad Pat and Charlie have given me the opportunity to see that great old bull.