Heavy arrows 1200 grains???!
Equipment
So I am curious, how heavy are some people shooting for their arrow set ups? I just started bowhunting 2 years ago. I was shooting fairly light arrows my first year, didn't shoot anything, last year shooting about 460 grain with a single bevel up front. Killed a young buck with that, perfect broadside shot. Anyway ive always feared quartering to and away shots, possibly frontals if your on the ground or if your in a tree and they are right below you. Plus I've been really curious to how heavy can you get an arrow. So I got the grizzly stick momentum TDT 170 spine arrows. 400 grain ethics insert, 300 grain single bevel werewolf eclipse broadhead. I'm looking at 1200 grains with a lighted knock. This weekend I will hopefully get them through a crono just for my curiosity. I can shoot to 40 with them and they fly like a dream and hit like a semi. So my question is anyone shot anything like this before? Anyone think I'm insane? Anyone curious to see how this season goes? I'm hunting whitetails on public land in Minnesota, typically Max of 30 yards. Shooting bowtech sr6 28.5 draw 70 some pounds of weight (I know that someone will ask) so yea, everyone start their opinions cause I'm curious.
My first thought is that you’re shooting an insane arrow setup. You’re hunting whitetails; not Cape buffalo. Don’t get sucked down the rabbit hole playing the what if game with scenarios. Might as well use your 1200 grain arrows now that you have them. They will be quiet and penetration will not be an issue. Keep your rangefinder handy because they are going to have considerable drop as distance increases. Enjoy your hunt.
BP
Main issue will be the arrow drop. At 40 yards vs 38 yards I bet you see a huge drop. Being off a yard or 2 could be the difference between a kill and miss.
Personally, I shoot a "heavy" arrow, about 500 gr. Good flight and good penetration. At 1200 gr, you are going to get the kind of penetration that you would need on much bigger animals. While I don't go along with the speed demons who shoot the 350 gr. soda straws, I think you might want to cut back on the "overkill" you seem to have gotten into.
To put it into gun terms, you're shooting deer with an elephant gun. Will it do the job? Sure. But do you really need all that horsepower, probably not.
Good luck this year.
TMBB
I can't believe that we are at the point in bowhunting where this is commonplace. In my opinion it is a terrible idea as the trajectory of your arrow will suffer severely and the penetration you gain is wasted.
Don't know you well enough to say if you're insane or not. But as to your arrows, my opinion is you spent a lot of money solving a problem that didn't exist. The 460 g arrow sounds great and you were successful with it. Good enough for anything you'll encounter in the US. If you fear quartering to/away and frontal, 1200g is not the answer. Experience, knowledge of anatomy, and shot placement are the key to those shots.
It is definitely over kill but so are 80% of compound draw weights used by people on here for deer.
You spent far more then needed on those arrows.
But if we used that logic everyone on here should buy a used 10 year old bow. Plenty to kill a whitetail
You should be at around 200fps
Since you already have them it will be a nice luxury to not worry about any bone on a whitetail.
And trajectory under 30yds should still be pretty flat at 70#
Dead quiet. What’s not to love.
Except the cost it’s a great setup :^)
As with most things in life, extremes at either end of the spectrum are counterproductive. A 1200gr arrow most definitely meets, and exceeds, the definition of extreme.
Have you been check for the Wuhan Virus you maybe experiencing the side affect Giangantikis shaftitis
1200 holy ship that is insane! 600 is actually pretty for deer!
This gets me to thinking about R Lee Ermey shooting watermelons to see how many get penetrated. If Stars (deer) aligned you should get penetration on 2 ½ deer.
Do you also use a 300 Winchester Magnum to shoot rabbits out of your garden? Because that would not be as crazy as using a 1200 grain arrow for MN whitetails. . I'm calling BS on the premise of this thread.
Just curious why you stopped at 1200 grs? Wouldnt 1400grs be better?
There will be over 20" of drop between 20 and 30 yards with this setup. As mentioned, you better be dead on with your yardage estimation, or those big heavy arrows will penetrate nothing but woods. Personally I think it's a dumb idea.
Matt
Definitely counter productive if your aim is to kill animals. Poor trajectory is going to cause more misses or wounding than a 450 grain. But since you got them already, I’d suggest you screw on the biggest, sharpest three blade broadhead you can find. Might as well take advantage of all that mass.
What reasoning drove you to such an extreme? Curious as to your thought process. Is your daily driver a gravel truck?
Have fun! If you are happy with the effective range they allow you, they could save the day on a marginal bone hit. Just because today's gear makes long shots easier to make doesn't mean we have to maximize that potential. A big part of why bowhunting is satisfying is because of the limitations. I used heavy arrows a bit. Worked great but just not as simple to throw together as "normal" weight arrows.
IMO you want a arrow speed 260-280 fps, if you cant get a 1200 grain arrow to do this it will cost you more game. Real world set ups would be 425-500gr, stray out of this it will cause you hurt.
If shooting a 1200 is what you want to then go for it! I think you'll be disappointed with the results. Like stated you'd be better off with a 450 to 500 grain arrow. You'll get flatter trajectory and plenty of penetration power.
Yeah, you're the guy shooting chipmunks with a 10 gauge. Effective but wholly unnecessary. You got them, go ahead and use them but just know my buddy thinks I'm nuts for shooting a 600 grain setup and you've doubled mine!
When gauging an appropriate arrow weight, I listen to experts like Randy Ulmer. He shoots around 500 grains - considering it a good tradeoff between speed/trajectory, energy, and quietness. I hover around 460 grains as I have a short draw length and partly achieve this weight by using a heavy insert (95 grains). You may not need the weight you have achieved for whitetails - but let the forum know your experiences with your equipment choices as you accumulate them - good luck.
You do you man shoot what makes you happy nothing wrong with 1200 grains if its what you like, I shoot 750 grains and was told all sorts of outlandish claims here. Plus hey it is called ARCHery right.
You have built a beautiful setup for hunting dangerous game in Africa. When are you going?
I would personally shoot 450-525 gr. for whitetail.
If you like it use it. For common whitetail shots trajectory is negligible.
So here's my question? Noone trash talks guys for shooting a traditional bow? They are shooting probably the same speed or slower with 600-700 grain arrows on average. Why not add weight and shoot same speed. I just want to give this a try. If it's "overkill" but they die Everytime, why not shoot it? I get it's slow and has poor trajectory. Thanks for that guys I get it trust me. Just wanted to start a conversation, so thanks guys. I'll keep this thread updated throughout the season!
Here's the arrow if you don't believe
Here's the arrow if you don't believe
So here's my question? Noone trash talks guys for shooting a traditional bow? They are shooting probably the same speed or slower with 600-700 grain arrows on average. Why not add weight and shoot same speed. I just want to give this a try. If it's "overkill" but they die Everytime, why not shoot it? I get it's slow and has poor trajectory. Thanks for that guys I get it trust me. Just wanted to start a conversation, so thanks guys. I'll keep this thread updated throughout the season!
I played around with a 585 gr. arrow and decided against it. I spent a bunch of money on arrows that will never be used. I noticed an unacceptably small margin of error if I was off by 3 yards. So, I went down to a standard 450 gr. arrow with about 18% FOC and a 3 blade VPA broadhead.
I kinda drank the Ranch Fairy koolaid. I was reading an article by Ashby and he was comparing a slow trad bow with a heavy arrow to a fast compound with a standard weight arrow. The compound arrow was getting more KE and MO. But he still argued that the slow heavy arrow was better. He equated it to sticking your hand out a car window at a fast speed and the resistance that is met by it vs. going at a slow speed and less felt resistance. So, if trad guys are happy with their KE and MO, then I will be happy with mine, since my bow achieves more than most trad bows.
I should say I have never had any penetration issues with my old set up of 425 gr with around 11% FOC. So, yes I agree with others I think you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. If you want better penetration simply use a COC broadhead and forget the rage in the cage.
I think what you are trying results in a massive trajectory tradeoff to address a problem you will likely never experience with your 460 gr arrows.
But hey, it is your money.
most trad guys want to get near 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow, and there are a lot of guys shooting between 50 and 55 lbs
Yes and the traditional guys are getting an average of 160-180 fps with that 500-550 grain arrow
vs a 1200 grain arrow going 190-200 FPS from the 70# compound.
He shoots 30 yards and in. I don’t see what all the drama is about. His bow will be silent and the arrow will stick in the ground further.
If he was stalking antelope it probably wouldn’t pan out so well. But shooting 20 yards at a whitetail what’s not to love. Except the cost of the arrows :^) And obviously it doesn’t bother him.
That is awesome! Personally I wouldn't shoot them, but like the old saying goes, "what ever blows your skirt up"! I want to know how your season goes and if you decide that 1200 grns is the right choice after using them in the field!!!
Well if they get real close your arrow heavy enough to club them to death with it.
"Yes and the traditional guys are getting an average of 160-180 fps with that 500-550 grain arrow vs a 1200 grain arrow going 190-200 FPS from the 70# compound."
Just to gut check your assumptions, 1,200 grs. and 190 fps translates to 96 lb/ft KE out of a 70# bow. That is not reasonable.
Assuming a more reasonable 180 fps and based on the outdoorsden.com arrow ballistic calculator, with a 20 yard zero that translates to the arrow being almost 6" high at 15 yards, 7" of drop at 25 yards, and 17" at 30 yards. Would you really want to shoot a set-up that requires rangefinding shots inside of 25 yards?
That compares to roughly 2", 3" and 6" with the 460 gr. arrow.
Unless the OP is going to rangefinder EVERY shot, this strikes me as one of those ideas that sounds great on an internet forum but will make a guy feel like an idiot in the field.
It’s a dumb idea in my opinion. But, it’s your decision to do it or not. I guess if you are content then that’s all that matters.
180FPS???? I shoot about 175fps usually with no rangefinder. Somehow managed to kill a decent amount of critters all over North America and have a blast in the process. Could I fill more tags shooting 280fps with sights and a release? Probably. Would I have had more fun? Probably not.
Yeah I’m at 176FPS also, 550 grain arrow. No rangefinder. No worries out to 30
I thought I was overdoing it with 700gr arrows out of my compound this season.
If there's a genuine reason for it, I guess you could say why not? But I wonder what is the reason? Your fear of hitting bone? You said you are hunting deer. Experience has proven that much excess in arrow weight isn't needed for penetration on deer, or really and other NA game for that matter. We can already blow though both shoulders of a deer with a 450 grain arrow and the right broadhead, out of a properly tuned compound at typical DW's. I guess if you were trying to reduce bow noise, or something else.....then maybe? Still seems pretty excessive for NA game. And remember, you asked for opinions ;-)
Yes, your arrows are heavy. If you are ok with the trajectory pay no attention to the computer experts who know little about the advantages of heavy arrows.
I’ve killed well over a 100 whitetails with traditional and compound bows. There is no advantage to a 1200 grain arrow for killing them. I’ve shot them sternum through and, from the butthole out the sternum. And, every single angle in between. With arrows weighing from 420 to 560 grains. Kills them dead every time and I can count on two hands the shots that didn’t pass all the way through.
Whitetail deer are quicker then any animal we routinely hunt. A slow, LOUD hissing arrow is a recipe for disaster. Bow noise isn’t nearly as relevant as the arrow hissing going down range. You slow it down to 180 FPS due to absurd reasoning and, you are asking for more trouble then is needed when hunting white tails.
I am not strong/in shape enough to haul 5 of those around the mountains.
I’m screwed. My loud arrow is only going 176 and the speed of sound is 1100 FPS I’ll never kill another animal.
I will say that I have had an alert warthog drop at the sound of a compound and duck the string at 20 yds. using a 1028 grain arrow. But that arrow was moving at 212fps still 5x below the speed of sound.
I thought I was overdoing it with 700gr arrows out of my compound this season.
700 grains!!! Lunacy!! You won’t be able to shoot 80 yards! :^) What’s next dogs living with cats? Anarchy,
700 grains!!! Lunacy!! You won’t be able to shoot 80 yards! :^) What’s next dogs living with cats? Anarchy,
^^^^ And you accuse others of creating drama?! Good grief, get over yourself.
If you use them your pins need to be at 5 yd increments.
WYO. you are correct. My smart A$$ side got carried away. And I apologize for any S.A. Remarks. I am just having fun. From my angle, it’s just a BS session online. I sure don’t mean to make it a life altering discussion. I was taking the counterpoint angle on heavy vs light. I still use both. Probably 4 different weight and spines right now depending on the bow I’m shooting. 400ish to 1028 grains.
Frankly, if you want to shoot 1200grns knock yourself out and have fun. That said, I'd still not shoot frontal or quartering to. Even with all that penetration, if you miss laterally you are in for a long day or two to find the critter... Just not worth it to me.
That's just a shot selection difference. If you want to shoot 2000grns, go for it... As long as you know how your set up responds, you are good to go.
Nice looking arrow!
To get rid of all the naysayers just state you built it for a Buffalo hunt and are testing it out this year ;)
Also for the trajectory- can you post some pictures from 15-30 yards aiming at the same spot, same pin to show the actual drops?
Pretty sure you can shoot a deer any angle, including the ham blaster ....
Sounds fun, and this is America, so..........
Should be perfect for the ol' ham blaster shot.
I was thinking this topic reminded me of a TBM post too!
TBM would have moved up to using rebar, next level thinking.
1200 grain arrow might be an excellent choice...if you're hunting big, bull elephants with a 120 lb draw weight! I'm sure you could be successful with a 70 lb bow, but I'll bet you'd regret it, when the extremely parabolic trajectory of your arrow hits a small, dangling tree limb you didn't see, 3 feet above the kill zone of your one chance shot, during your "hunt of a lifetime"!
Shot placement! Wait for the shot to develop.
If you're using a bow shop to cut & fletch arrow shafts, add inserts, etc., my advice would be to find another shop. The guy working there should have tried to talk you out of this arrow set-up and doesn't know what he's doing. If you're setting up your own arrows, stop doing that and go find an archery shop with knowledgeable staff. If you won't take either course of action, nothing anyone else has said here will make a difference. That said, knock yourself out and let us know how it goes. Just my $.02. You asked.
Good luck slow. That’s a hell of an arrah. Keep us posted. I’m shooting A 510 gr arrow for elk this year, again.
Yes is my response to your inquiry about an opinion on your insanity
Yes, I have done it. In the early 80's I wanted to go elephant hunting. I was young, single and strong and figured now was the time to borrow the money and go. So I bought a 100# Golden Eagle and started working on arrows. I sleeved a 1916 inside a 2219 31" long shaft with a 200 grain broadhead. Got about 1000 grains on that one, shot 189 fps out of the Eagle.
I also put a 2117 inside a 2419, that got me to around 1200, but I didn't like the bigger shaft diameter.
Back then compounds were shooting 175-220 fps (without overdraws). So it really wasn't much slower than most other compounds, at least it didn't seem like it when I shot with others. Beyond 40 yds there was some serious drop. Shooting a deer broadside at 40 yds off the ground the exit hole would be lower than the entrance hole due to the arc of the arrow!
Today I shoot 65# and 475 grain carbon arrows at a 29" draw, 265 fps. I have purposely shot whitetails in the shoulders and blow right through them with Slick Tricks, Wac Em's or Thunderheads. You don't need 1000 grain arrows to hunt anything in North America. Not by far. Bows are so much more efficient today.
