Contributors to this thread:
3 in diff between BH and FP good enough?
Long story but I unexpectedly had to come up with a new bow only two weeks prior to a out of state trip. Set the new bow up with no problems and quickly had the sights dialed in. The only downside was when I test shot BHs they weren't grouping with the FPs. After just a little rest tweaking I have it down to about 2.5 in diff at 25 yds. I am leaving to hunt in a couple days and don't have much more time to fiddle. I need some reassurance. Is a couple inches a sign of a major tune/spine issue or just go with it and deal with micro fixes later when I return from the hunt...
Any major issue is obvious in arrow flight. You would notice it shooting the bow. IMO if you don't see that, you're fine. Just out of curiosity you are 2.5" out at 25, what is it like at 50? Make sure you have your sights dialled in properly for the broad heads and figure the rest out later.
If you're really concerned, use a tripod and an iPhone on slow-mo or have someone record a shot and see if your arrow flight is whacked. If it isn't you're fine.
Reminds me of my first elk hunt back in '74. I needed to borrow a rifle, and the guy didn't get it to me until we were headed ion to camp. It turned out to be an old stock issue 8mm German Mauser. When I sighted it in at camp, my partners both hid behind trees. I asked WTF? They replied; that old thing is likely to explode. Well, we had a beer can set up at 50 yds. We couldn't tell where the shot went. At least it didn't explode. I finally determined it shot about 6" left at 50 yds. With no way to adjust the sights, I just kept that in mind. On day 3, I killed a 5 X 6 bull at just over 50 yds. Back then, that was a pretty respectable bull. I stopped trying to hide what I was carrying when I encountered another hunter, just daring them to make a comment. lol
What you have is not ideal, but as long as the arrow is stabilizing quickly out of the bow, just get close and adjust your aim. A LOT of critters have been killed by guys that never even knew to tune their bows.
I would shoot it at 40 and see. I mean 2.5" off at 25 will likely be 5"s or more at 40. No reassurance here. I would get it right, should hit the same point if aim. Shawn
Shoot it with BHs at your maximum effective range. It’s most likely the position of the rest. No sense in false assurance, need to get it right or keep it to limited effective range. Good luck on tuning and also on your hunt
Adjust your sight pins to your BH and hunt. While we all want BH & FP to group together, it's not crucial; rather more of a convenience to be able to practice with only FP and know BH will fly the same. A couple of inches is pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, it's not like your arrows are flying sideways and going to lose a bunch of penetration.
The slight difference holds out to 70 yds. It widens some at the longer ranges but so does my groups. My groups at 60 or 70 always have been softball to cantaloupe sized ( technical terms). A mixed end of FPs and BHs is still in that group size. But FPs on left. Btw I had to buy something in a hurry so I checked with my local dealer re a lh package bow in the line of bows he carried as a compromise bow i can upgrade later without breaking the bank. Problem was he quoted a price about $200 higher than I could get it online. I don't mind paying a little extra for local but that seemed excessive. Now I'm afraid to have him tune on it cause I went rogue and bought with out his support.
Thanks for the opinions. I'm gonna go with it and not worry too much about it. Sounds like everyone agrees it's probably not a major issue. I don't mind tuning on the bow myself I'm just short of time. When I get back from elk hunting I'll have more time to micro tune. I like to take my time when tuning as I am a more consistent shot with shorter sessions.
John re your mechanical reply. I shot spitfires for years. The only reason I stopped was they kept going up in price. Coincidentally bass pro just had them on sale half off. I bought 3 packs. They do shoot with the FPs I already checked. But I also have about a dozen brand new slick trick standards which I also had good luck with. I didn't want leave three packs of new BHs in the drawer unused...
Agree with one poster above. Be sure your sights are set for your BHs.
What bow is it? Do you have a press?
I also agree with smarba. Adjust you site or rest. to hit the 12 ring with your BH. I do this and see no issue. I only adjust my rest very slightly, as the difference between FP and BH is only 2 inchs horizonal at 25 yards.
How does a tune issue causing a difference of 2.5” at 25 yards, hold a cantaloupe sized grouping with mixed field points and broad heads. Something doesn’t add up. 2.5 at 25 is going to 8” or so at 70 Minimum. Probably a lot more.
Go to a pro shop. I envy you guys that do all your bow work. But, I also read you threads about tuning or lack of. If you have access to a professional bow tec, be smart and let him fool with it. At the least you need a slight rest tweak. At the worst your cam or cables are outta wack. Who knows. One thing is for sure, I’d fix it before my trip if I could. If not, I’d sight on for my BH’s and roll
At this point, sight in with broadheads (or screw on a mech....) and go hunting.
Is it tuned? No. At 25 yards you should have fear in your heart shooting a FBBH at the spot you just shot a FP at. That's getting fairly well tuned.
If 2.5" is as close as you can get adjusting the rest, likely some other issues, from contact to cam lean to arrow build to even form. Who knows what or why and questions you probably shouldn't be dealing with at this point.
Sometimes the best you can do is do the best you can and roll with it. Have a great hunt!
"Something doesn’t add up. 2.5 at 25 is going to 8” or so at 70 Minimum. Probably a lot more."
That's not necessarily true. If the arrow is coming off the bow slightly mis-aligned, with the point to the left (which is probably the case), if it stabilizes quickly, the impact point won't continue to be farther off aim point at increasing distance at a consistent rate, like if your sights are off.
I have always TRIED to get them together. This year and last year, I struggled, got them close, but not together. Then I noticed the group sizes where identical at every distance so no accuracy difference just off to the side a bit. I moved the sight and went hunting.
The deer didn't seem to notice.
Unless you Re hunting chipmunks 2.5 inches at 25 yards is still in the kill Zone
A lot of people hunt chipmunks, Bou. That’s very presumptuous of you.
LEGOMAN is the #1 chipmunk hunter. Cmon man.
I would not shoot it until I knew it was right. Sorry but the mental aspect of archery is far too important. I want to know that when I settle my pin at 20 yards, 30, 40, 50, that the arrow is going to hit exactly where my pin is, assuming that I am good with form. I do not want any mental math of any other considerations in my head.
As a result I would shoot only my broad heads and I would would move my sight until I was shooting the x with them. I would set each pin 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 as good as I could.
I have never had broad heads hit exactly like field points, close but never perfect and every year I adjust my sight a touch for my heads.
For a sample reason why I do this, I can look back at a few shots where I had to hug a tress branch tight to get a kill shot. In those situations I want to know exactly what to expect. I don't want to think if I need to hold 2.5" low, high, left right or... I also dont want to do the mental math of 2.5 at 20, 5 at 40, or...
Tons of goodness in this comment. “ One thing is for sure, I’d fix it before my trip if I could. If not, I’d sight on for my BH’s and roll.”
Actually, I was surprised by many of the responses but I do not do a lot adjusting sights to broadheads.
I appreciate all the opinions. A quick update on the situation. I may have cured the issue. After watching some you tube videos on bare shaft tuning . I just tried something different and I moved the rest a good amount (about 1/8 in or more) the opposite direction I had been thinking was working. Voila arrows impacting together. I still need to adjust the sights to accommodate the shift and shoot enough arrows to confirm but I may have cracked the code. Being a leftie sometimes confuses me which way to go when trouble shooting . And yes I could still shoot a cantaloupe sized group at 60 I have no reason to bs about group size and I can't easily take it to a bow shop for a tune for two well three reasons firstly I am over an hour away from a true archery shop which currently has about a week or more turn around time on repairs and tunes. My local guy is a mail order dealer who works out of his basement. And I wasn't comfortable taking the bow to him as I tried to buy a bow from him but he was high on the price. He likes to work on bows he sold
Glad you got it fixed. Slick Trick standards are one of the easiest to tune and most forgiving FBBH so that could explain why they don't drift more at longer distances. Screw on a big, wide, long FBBH and I'm certain your groups would've widen significantly.
Does the pointy end hit first?
yes, go hunt
no, try a different broadhead
I would want my BH hitting where it is suppose to. If you get excited at the shot and forget to compensate for the 2.5” and actually pull your shot left a couple of inches you will be hitting the animal 4.5” to 6” left of where you should. Depending on direction the animal is facing, shot could be to far forward or turn into a gut shot.
So the OP has self-correcting arrows? Missing by 2.5" at 25 and 70 yards is something I and no one I know has ever seen.
I am the OP Matt I never said it stayed 2.5 inch diff at 60 I said my groups spread to about softball/ cantaloupe size with the FPs falling on the left side at 60. How bigs a cantaloupe? Regardless I appreciate the opinions. I sheepishly admit all it took was a couple bare shafts to completely cure the issue. I had already spent a whole afternoon making pencil thin micro adjustments of the rest to the right and had managed to get the diff from about 5-6 inches to 2 or 3. After seeing my bare shaft results I made a big move (1/8 an inch or so) left with the rest from original position (whoops) and boom I'm banging shafts together. Then I had to adjust the sight a good ways right to compensate but quickly had Field points 100 grain Slick tricks and 100 grain spit fires all landing on top of each other..I would have hunted as is but I would have fretted about it until it was fixed. Now I can relax and go hunt. I was gonna take a picture of my last group and post but I drank two beers and forgot to take the pic...thanks for the thoughts
Set pins to BHs and go hunt.
I don't shoot bows with sights. I do know a bit about tuning compounds but learned something new from this thread. I guess its from a years of rifles but I figured 2.5" at 25 = 5" at 50, 7.5" at 75, 10" at 100, etc.
Site to broad heads and hunt.
Comparing bullets and arrows isn’t apples to apples. Arrows with FBBH can be steered from both ends. Arrows take way longer to arrive on target. Arrows are much more affected by wind. Arrows can be impacted by fletch contact after they’re fired. I can go on but the point is arrows don’t behave consistently and follow a perfect mathematical model all the time. Bullets much more so.