Contributors to this thread:
Are Bow hunters staying healthy?
Pat started a thread on The effects of Covid on May 19th. There was a lots of discussion on how the virus has effected our hunting plans for 2020. It is now September. Many of us have changed our hunting plans. It appears that the Canadian border opening doesn't look promising.
We have altered our plans in many cases. My question is "How are the guys and gals on this site that have had the virus doing?" I am from Wisconsin. Our Wisconsin site has had members mention they contacted the virus. Many times we never hear if they beat this darn thing. Looking forward to getting back to "normal"!! I am not sure what that is going to be. Greg
The current death rate in this country To Covid 19 is 0.005%. I’m betting they survived it.
A friend of mine just got out of quarantine after 14 days. He is compromised with asthma and past 30 year smoker. He said he coughed a lot and sounds terrible but it did not hit him as bad as any flu. He was at the hospital 2 days early on as an outpatient. The second day they hydrated him with an IV. He was scared early on not knowing what to expect but said the worst was just having to quarantine and lay around.
I guess that explanation is what I am curious about. We have had friends and relatives that tested positive. Some experienced minor symptoms. Some needed to be hospitalized. We have not knowN any family or friends who have died. Greg
I've had friends and family members have symptoms ranging from a light cold to death. Some of them had no fever. Most people survive with just a little difficulty but some continue to show different symptoms after the original infection passes.
The current death rate - deaths divided by identified cases - is .0298, or 3%. Significantly more deadly than the common flu which is 1%..
We know one person who had it and recovered after a few weeks. He is in his thirties and very healthy.
My county now has 10 or 11 cases, we were at zero up until a month or so ago.
I know at least 8 people who have had it. Range of symptoms from asymptomatic to flu like symptoms. 6 of 8 were on the extremely mild side. 1 said it was like a moderate cold and the other said it was like the flu.
I know 2 people first hand who tested positive. Pretty surprising after it being around 8 months or longer. I live an hour north of Denver in a county with 365,000 people. I meet suppliers and customers daily mostly in the metro area and have done so all through the shutdown (I'm "essential"). One young guy that only lost his sense of taste for few days, one with a few years on him who said it sucked but never got admitted and it ran its course. I meet new folks daily, outside with no masks and I'm offered a handshake pretty often. 46 of the 365,000 people have died in my county over 7 months with Covid (not necessarily from Covid). None under the age of 45, 9 under 70. Currently 6 people in the hospital.
My nephew tested positive a couple months back, as did the majority of employees where he worked...he had zero symptoms.
.0001% of the population here in KS has died with a Covid positive test.
I have known a few cases here and every one has been assymtomatic Or just loss of smell. Only deaths were people who were dying in hospital and got it or when it hits a nursing home.
For one, probably more 99% of the folks who contract the virus will beat it or have mild symptoms. From a numbers standpoint, this whole thing is blown out of proportion. I've been treating covid patients since March, and very few end up in ICU. I've been exposed to no less than 25 positive patients and I was wearing the bare minimum of PPE and I've had no severe symptoms and employee health has never even bothered to test me. Get out and hunt, it's the best thing you can do for your lungs.
I know at least 4 people that had it. None had any symptoms, other that maybe a little run down and scared that they might die because of the lunacy on the news.
I think my wife and stepson had it early. Don’t know for sure because they didn’t get tested. I never was sick.
Saw an interesting article that pointed out the CDC has added the statistic that approximately 96% of the reported COVID deaths had comorbidity with one or more diseases that were going to kill them. If that is true, we are at less than 10,000 total COVID only deaths in the USA. And some portion of those probably had an undiagnosed comorbidity...
77 YO hunting buddy contracted it. Complicated with viral pneumonia as well. Was in ICU on a ventilator for close to two weeks. Dr. said only reason he survived was that he was in good shape to begin with.
Kind of like saying how did you do when you got in a car accident. Some people walk away...some people die. Different for everyone. I know 2 people that got it. Trouble breathing, they both said it felt like someone was laying on their chest. Both recovered fine at home.
I don’t know anyone personally that’s had it, except possibly me and my son. We haven’t been tested but I don’t have much faith in the tests anyway. We were both sick in February, one after the other, just before we heard of covid. We had no breathing problems, just felt like hell for the better part of a week. I took some Zycam on the third day and began to feel better the next day. By the third day of Zycam I was over it. Possibly it wasn’t covid but I’ve seen folks (on tv) that tested positive with exactly the same symtoms. I’m not around other people much anymore and take no extraordinary precautions. I do wear a mask at the doctor’s office because it’s mandatory, but other than using hand sanitizer my life is the same as it’s always been.
BTW, I’m overweight, Type 2 diabetic, have a pacemaker, and 73 years old. I just don’t believe that it’s what the news media and some politicians would have us believe it is. Is it dangerous, can it kill you ? Yep, but so can a lot of other things in this world. It’s certainly not the most dangerous thing we face as a nation at this point.
I've known six people who have had COVID. Four had mild symptoms, one had significant but manageable symptoms, and one died. The media has blown much/most of this way out of proportion, but those who minimize it and say "it's nothing" are every bit as misguided.
So many businesses wrecked for nothing.
Here we go again.
According to the American Family Association, the death rate is .005%. Not 3%. I guess it depends on what you believe. I know what seems plausible and more correct to me as credible sources.
If you divide deaths by total cases, the death rate is .03%.
And how many cases have there been that have not been accounted for as confirmed cases?
Bet the actual number of people that have had it is way more than double the number they call out as confirmed. Might be 10X or more. Especially considering that the majority of people that get it have either no or very mild symptoms.
Treeline, I hear people say that, then I hear people say they’re exaggerating the positive cases. Can’t have it both ways. I imagine it’s somewhere in the middle. Some false positives and double testing and then some people that had it and didn’t get tested. They probably offset.
Not to mention everyone and their mother “thinks they had” because in January they felt sick for a few days. I know 5-6 of those people.
Yes, you can have it both ways John. The total cases Reported by states to the cdc has had states Openly adding suspected deaths without confirmation and, reporting they’ve over counted Covid deaths As well. While antibody Tests are showing upwards of 80% of the people who’ve had it, wasn’t even aware they had it. That’s what Treelibe is referring to.
Matt, I agree. I suspect the AFA is using statistics derived from antibody test to make that claim.
FWIW, my next door neighbor just died at from Covid. Last year she moved to Richmond area to live with her youngest sister. She had diabetes, heart disease, and was 86 years old. I took care of her place for her while she was attempting to sell it. That’s the only case of anyone I know personally.
My boss died from it. 68 years old. Everybody in the office I report to had it, including many of their family members. Office is just outside of NY city. I stayed away from the office and I have not had it, as far as I know.
Currently, my 18 year old daughter has it at college in SC. She’s in quarantine. Mild symptoms, but very scary as a parent. My son is in college in TN and several members of the sports teams have it as well as several professors. He’s been safe so far.
Does quarantine belly count, asking for a friend....
I tested covid19 positive on April 1st. Started with nasal/sinus cold symptoms and quickly became typical flu symptoms. I was pretty miserable for about 4 days. By the time my doctor sent me for the test the worst of it was over. I am 60 years old and in good health although my sense of taste and smell has still not returned to normal. My Wife, who is 57, was also sick about 4 days before me. While she felt pretty bad her symptoms we not as bad as mine. Her doctor did not send her for a covid test so I'll say her illness was likely but unconfirmed covid19.
The President of my archery club knew three people who have died; hard-working people 40s-50s.
My sister has a patient whose father died from it; he was 39, I think. I know a gal whose perfectly healthy 30 YO son was sick as hell with it for a couple weeks. Last weekend I ran across a guy on the AT who appeared to be very fit and in his 70s who’d been through a week of feeling like someone had sandpapered his lungs (his description). That was in March; he looked pretty well recovered to me, and God bless him.
Is this virus deadlier than regular flu? Sure appears to be. Is it The Black Death? Nope. But is it spread pretty easily when people congregate and do a lot of heavy breathing? Most assuredly.
If everybody would just behave as if they knew they were contagious for about a month, we could be through it pretty quickly, but it got turned political so nobody is actually THINKING about it anymore; the whole damn thing has turned into a total clusterfest...
And all it would really take to stop this stuff in its tracks would be about 4 weeks of acting like we all cared about each other instead of acting like spoiled children who have no empathy for anyone and care only about being allowed to behave as they please.
Pretty freaking stupid.
You can talk about the odds all you want; Statistics make no difference until you become one,
I know of several who have had it. One of the people was in his mid 40s, thought it was a bad, cold, then pneumonia. He ended up in ICU for a while. In good health no other conditions. After asking his doctor several times after his recovery got an unfortuante answer. Can I get it again?? Yes , he told him.
I am dealing with a client who may have up to 10 employees who have it. Seems a operations manager/supervisor was being a smart ass and didnt wear facial covering distance him self, etc. Bragged about how it was all nonsense. Sounds like he was the epicenter. The place may end up having to close down for a while. Some people may end up being very ill or lose their livelyhood due to his non-sense. 8 months ago they were all happy just getting their first profit sharing check.
My neighbor died from it, I've known several with it. Most being 30-50YO endurance athletes. 1 felt sick for a week or two - like a bad flu - then had chronic fatigue and dry cough for about 6 weeks. One was that way for a 4-5 weeks, she was more acutely ill for a week, then just really tired for about a month. Couple folks who just were crushed but avoided the hospital, and ironically got fully better within a month - so faster than the folks who were not as acutely ill. And one around 50 who spent about 10d in the hospital, narrowly avoiding a ventilator, and was on supplemental oxygen for 12 weeks. He's got lung damage and they dont know if it's permanent or not. He's slowly improving, but he is not near normal yet... He was sick in April.
I dont think any of the hunters I personally know got sick - to my knowledge at least.
I got tested last Friday. I was visiting family in MI over Labor Day weekend and middle of last week, my nephew tested positive. I was sleeping in the room next to his. I got my results this morning. I was negative.
There are easily double the cases than are reported. Maybe triple. The death rate is ridiculously low. I agree that it is real, but surely not worthy to shut down a nation. Those who say that if we all just were careful for a month and it would be over are dreaming.....if it's as contagious as they say, it would come roaring right back, The wait would do nothing except delay the inevitable. I say it's time to let it play out and get it really over with. My brother-in-law and sister both had it revently and he is 54, obese, needs a quadruple bypass and has 2 stents and is a bad type one diabetic. He had a fever, cough and was tired but in two weeks was fine and avoided the hospital. My sister had a fever and a headache.
If all these anecdotal reports are spot on, then it would seem to me that doctors don’t know squat about who is affected and how. I’ve read above that healthy people got deathly ill and folks like me (one foot in the grave, another on a banana peel) have come through almost unscathed. That’s ass backwards from what the CDC said would happen. That doesn’t surprise me.
I know 5 people that have had it. The oldest (60s), was sick for a few days then went crazy being quarantined. She's fully healthy now and was pretty quickly.
Then 3 were in their 40s-50s. All had mild symptoms and were over it quickly.
The last is low 20s. Her parents had it. She didn't have symptoms but tested positive.
Even with my bad luck, I figure my odds are way higher to be killed in a car accident as I drive a decent amount for work.
Here, we have to wear masks in all stores, restaurants etc. Not a single case here or in the entire district. This is what pisses me off.... we are on the trans Canada hwy. All transport traffic rolls right through Dryden. So many "New" Canadian truck drivers come in to our places of business without masks demanding service. Act like they dont speak any english. They come from places that are "Hot Spots". They have no respect for laws or health of others!!
Now, I do not like masks but if I have to wear them, " New" Canadians should too!!!
Masks do not stop a virus. Surgical masks are no longer viable when moistened by use, in fifteen minutes, and were never designed to block a virus. The cloth masks most people wear, are a symbol that they live in fear, either of the virus, the government, or what other people will think of them.
Or they are a symbol that the person is willing to make a very minor sacrifice in the chance that it may help keep someone safe in case they unknowingly have the virus.
Steve B for the win.
Some people obviously don’t want common sense Involved in the discussion of this “pandemic”. They’d rather talk to others like children while attempting to guilt them into their camp.
The world might end as we know it tomorrow. But, it’s not going to be from the virus itself.
Belittling others for wearing a mask in the hopes it might help others is ok while guilting people for not wearing a mask isn’t?
I couldn’t care less if someone chooses to wear a mask or not. It’s their choice. But, ridiculing people for wearing one and assuming they are doing so out of fear is just plain stupid.
A minor sacrifice was three weeks into the lying declaration of 2.3million deaths. Truth be told, the emergency is over.
Nobody ever “declared” 2 million deaths; that was just an early forecast of what would happen if we didn’t respond appropriately, and the prediction was based on very limited data.
Behaviors changed, we got more & better data and the predictions keep shifting. That’s not being “wrong”, it’s just Learning .
Don’t tell me that you guys are all so dependent on the government taking care of you that you just can’t stand the thought of “them” not being absolutely correct all of the time...
“ Truth be told, the emergency is over.”
Well, let’s see....
On March 10th, there was an (7-day) average of under 100 cases per day; on April 10th, it was 31.5k; things tailed off to about 21k in mid June, then people got comfortable and a month later it was 65k. After 2 months of tailing off again (to 34k) the schools have reopened and cases are back up 15% in a week.
That doesn’t sound “over” to me...
It DOES strongly suggest that we can keep the transmission levels in check with the right precautions; if you want things to open back up, you can take the precautions and be part of the solution or you can ignore them and risk becoming part of the problem.
Like most glasses-wearing folk, I really dislike the masks. My lip-reading-dependent son is having a hell of a time with teachers wearing masks. His brother can’t play in the high-school band because every band practice is a potential super-spreader event. And considering that he has a good shot at real scholarship dollars playing his instrument(s), it’s as big a deal for him as it is to the star quarterback to lose his senior football season.
So no, we don’t like the restrictions, but we can’t help end them through sabotage.
I personally saw where no guilting of people who wear a mask. Only repeated attempts to do opposite. What Wild Bill is declaring isn’t opinion. Only the degree in which people apply those realities to their own preference of mask wearing is relevant.
The piece of what Bill said that I CAN agree with is that UNDER THE CURRENT CONDITIONS (in which so many people are continuing to take precautions against the spread of this virus), the medical system has not been overrun, wholesale, as was initially feared/predicted.
I just take issue with the conclusion that the evidence that something worked is somehow proof that it was unnecessary in the first place.
And nobody said that anyone was laying guilt trips on people who wear masks; Nowiser’s point was that ridiculing those who DO wear masks is no different than laying the guilt on those who don’t.
The best numbers we have are that there's 10X more cases than what is actually reported. Good evidence to say that 20% of Americans have had it by now - more in some areas, less in others.
It's certainly hard on the older and sicker. Also the morbidly obese. I believe the death numbers that are coming out because I'm part of the medical system and see how these numbers are tabulated.
For those that want to poopoo the deaths, frankly, if someone was going to die of a heart attack or cancer tomorrow and they die of COVID today, technically, they still died of COVID. The total numbers are not what we should be looking at, but rather the death rates for individuals/demographics/those with risk factors, etc.
The death rate for young healthy people, best data we have now, is 0.03%. Those numbers don't scare me at all as a young, healthy person.
But to downplay the risk to older people and people with health problems is wrong, IMO. This virus is absolutely hammering the old and weak.
Now, if you want to have a conversation about whether masks or shuttering the economy is necessary, that's another conversation.
But calling this a nothing burger loses that conversation before it starts because it is certainly a killer. It's just not a killer we're used to and it's not a big killer of young, healthy people.
For people who don't believe that COVID is actually killing people, take a look at the "all cause mortality" data in the link. These are charts of how many Americans we're putting in the ground. Then compare it to the COVID daily death rate charts. They match perfectly.
From a political standpoint, it'd be more convenient to blow this whole thing off as some sort of conspiracy, but the fact of the matter is, a virus popped up on China, spread to the entire world, and is killing a fair amount of people globally. Sure, partisans on the left are going to try and pin COVID on Trump... the logical retort to that is not to put one's head in the sand and say that COVID doesn't exist, but rather to point out that COVID is in every country and killing people everywhere and that all evidence points to COVID not being that big of a deal for most Americans and those are stats that are verifiable from government agencies around the world.
Embedded is a link to the "all cause mortality" charts. This chart is about 5 weeks old.
I'll make another post with a link to the daily death rates.
Daily death rate chart - you have to scroll down below the state data to find it.
These stats come from tens of thousands of hospitals and thousands of health departments around the country, from red states, blue states, and red counties in blue states. These stats would be impossible to fabricate in some sort of collusion.
I'm realistic about the virus and its effects. I do not agree with how we have responded. I hope when we get a handle on this and things get back to "normal" we see as much energy spent on how and who unleashed this as we are spending on the threat posed by people going to work, or church, or school, or a funeral, or their kids hockey game.
So your initial assumption is that this virus was man-made, weaponized, and deliberately unleashed on the US????
Likely released due to mishandling and downplayed/covered up when travel restrictions may have prevented many deaths.
Call me skeptical, but I'm guessing China has more than than 5000 total deaths.
2.2 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE U.S. COULD DIE IF CORONAVIRUS GOES UNCHECKED Exposure to air pollution could make the virus particularly deadly for poor Americans. Sharon Lerner March 17 2020, 1:30 p.m. WITHOUT MITIGATION, the new coronavirus pandemic could kill as many as 2.2 million people in the U.S., according to a report from the Imperial College of London Covid-19 Response Team. Even taking critical steps such as social distancing of the entire population, isolation of the sick in their homes, and quarantining family members of the sick, the epidemic will likely soon overwhelm the critical care capacity of American hospitals, according to the report. T.he British researchers told the New York Times that they shared their findings with the White House task force on the virus “about a week ago.”
Within weeks we learned the projection was flawed and there was a downturn in the projected numbers, actually two more reductions put the number at 100,000. By then the FEAR was rapidly spreading and every polititian was jumping to do "whatever" to "mitigate" and appear on top of the "CRISIS". However, in 2018, the death total from the flu was 100,000, so, where was the panic then, 2018 that is, and why should it be considered that now? Instead of a pandemic that is in the minds of some, equal to the zombie apocalypse, in reality, it's just a bad flu. In fact, it was recently discovered that the some covid tests will trigger a positive for covid which is also the common cold virus, therefore, some of the multitude of positive cases could actually be a common cold(covid) virus, for which there is no vaccination even though man has suffered from it for ages. Oh yeah, that's something most people can live with, even though there are vulnerable people with complications that it can kill.
Get a grip folks. Oh wait a minute, that sounds too much like grippe, sorry, I'm not wishing that on anyone.
The masks and social distancing are all feel good and not especially effective. Nature is running it's course. I knew early on, as did others, that the proponets would claim that their mitigation saved the day and things could have been worse. That's rubbish talk.
Herd immunity!!!!!(and Bud Light)
Just back from a fantastic mule deer/elk hunt out west. Great to be alive and kicking. Guys I hunted with were terrific and scenery breathtaking. Thanks to all before us that made this possible.
FEIW, I haven’t read a thing here or any where else that people don’t believe the virus is real. Not one.
“ 2.2 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE U.S. COULD DIE IF CORONAVIRUS GOES UNCHECKED”
AND... The Govt did (belatedly) take action.
The virus did NOT go completely unchecked.
That specific prediction did not come to pass.
I will always agree that Correlation does not guarantee Causation.
BUT ... The US death toll (per capita) has been higher than in similar countries which took quicker/stronger action. Our death rate is just about the worst, as I recall.
“ Within weeks we learned the projection was flawed and there was a downturn in the projected numbers, actually two more reductions put the number at 100,000.”
And now we’re at twice that. I don’t know how much higher it will go, but it’s never coming down. Are these people allowed to be wrong and the 2.2M estimate people are not?
All I can tell you is...
Cases spike every time that we return closer to pre-Covid normal. Then restrictions go back up and cases start to come back down.
Cases are MUCH higher in some states than others.
And they are generally highest where fewer restrictions are in place.
We’re all free to interpret the data. Call it a coincidence if you like; just please don’t impose the consequences of your interpretation on other people.
"just please don’t impose the consequences of your interpretation on other people."
Seems like both sides agree on that.
Yep, but I wish we could all stick to it!
Everybody is too busy feeling put upon by The Other Side that we’ve forgotten that we’re All Team USA, doing our best to help each other through unprecedented events.
I saw something on FB about “I miss September 12th”. The 11th was an atrocity, but the way we responded was priceless...
GF, Is this what you mean by belated? President Trump in the midst of impeachment (Jan 31,2020) bans foreign travelers from China and is pummeled by the media and Democrats for xenophobia.
Thank you Senator Tom Cotton.
"And now we’re at twice that." - And we are certain that number has been erronously inflated to obtain money from the government programs intended to provide financial relief for hospitals, and slam the President.
"CASES", is the new goal post, since the curve and deaths has not detered many Americans from wanting a return to normal. The first percentage figure of people who survive covid, was 98%, but you rarely heard that from the main stream media.
I owe Greg, the OP, an apology, I did not have covid, yet, despite never wearing a mask in public.
Ready for normal here too.
More " cases " being reported here in NE Iowa, although I don't know what constitutes a " case".....a couple folks have gone in to get a test, they won't even test you unless you have a temp. That's not serious mitigation , IMO....
I'm guessing that it's more systemic than most realize already. Mother Nature dousing the gene pool with a little chlorine, thanks to the Red Chinese...
Americans bickering with each other instead of turning their frustration towards the culpable parties like they should. The CCP
And they still go to walmart and buy cheap china crap, too dam funny.