Propane Wall Heater?
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Ben 28-Sep-20
Ben 28-Sep-20
Ben 29-Sep-20
Ben 29-Sep-20
Grubby 29-Sep-20
Habitat 29-Sep-20
35-Acre 29-Sep-20
skookumjt 29-Sep-20
skookumjt 29-Sep-20
skookumjt 29-Sep-20
JohnMC 29-Sep-20
ground hunter 29-Sep-20
JohnMC 29-Sep-20
ground hunter 29-Sep-20
DRR324 29-Sep-20
skookumjt 29-Sep-20
JohnMC 29-Sep-20
skookumjt 29-Sep-20
lv2bohunt 29-Sep-20
Two Feathers 04-Oct-20
JusPassin 04-Oct-20
Two Feathers 05-Oct-20
28-Sep-20
Purchased a larger propane (actually dual fuel but will be propane fed) heater for our cabin, the Dyna Glo 30k BTU. This replaced the 20K BTU Mr. Buddy. Both blue flame.

The 30K says I must use at minimum 100lb tanks and a two stage regulator. After back surgery I sold those and started using 40lb tanks and a single stage low pressure regulator.

I called customer service at Dyna and inquired. Great people, but thought I would check here for some of you that may have experience. I called twice, first time they told me I must use 100lb tank at a minimum with 30K. I didn't like hearing that any more than some of you like hearing you must wear a mask. So I tried my 20k set-up. It works just fine.

I called back, they said it will work except when it gets extremely cold and then I better have a 100lb tank. They also said I should use a two stage regulator no matter what size tank. She said even 20 lb tanks will work until it gets too cold.

I did purchase a two stage regulator. I will purchase 1 100lb tank for when it is really cold, or until the smaller tanks quit working I guess. A neighbor will help me set it, a young very stout man! I tried to purchase a 50 or a 100 gallon tank and can not find a provider. I do not have room for a 300 gallon which is the minimum the local provider will set. I am waiting for them to call back if they will come out and fill 100 lb tanks. If they do I probably will get 3 and run two out before calling them to come and fill them.

Questions are, what options have some of you done? Anyone find and use 50-120 gallon tanks? Has anyone used the 40lb tanks and had trouble with them? Is it an outside temperature issue?

Last but not least, she told me I can use my 20s and 40 lb tanks but not the 30lb one. She said with the 30s the tank will feed the fuel as a liquid and not a gas like all of the others. I have never heard that before.

Apologize for the length of this. We a little more than doubled our small cabin size and had to upgrade the A/C and heat. This summer the cabin was very comfortable for us both, I want to make sure I have no problems with the heat. Robin, my wife, is retiring November 18th and intends to spend more time up there with me. Have to be prepared!

Thank you.

From: Ben
28-Sep-20
Frank, I use one in the shop for a backup to wood and haven't had a problem when I use it even with a 20# bottle but, I don't run it long. Since you have trouble with the 100# bottles could you use two 40# ers and hook the both with a tee then go thru your regulator?

From: Ben
28-Sep-20
Just another thought the furnace in our 5th wheel is a 30,000 btu and it runs of a 40# bottle with a second 40# for a flip over back up. It can be setup with an auto changeover on the bottles but I prefer to know when one is empty.

28-Sep-20
Thanks Ben, I do have a T so I can try that. Appreciate it. Is yours a 30k?

From: Ben
29-Sep-20
The 5th wheel furnace is , I'll have to check the wall heater tomorrow for btu rating but, it will heat my 24 x 32 shop up easily. So I feel it is . I'll post tomorrow after I check it. I also have a hunting 5th wheel that has a 20,000 furnace and it runs on 20# bottles.

From: Ben
29-Sep-20
Hey, I do have 2 - 100# tanks that I use to use for stock tank heaters before I changed to electric if you need one.

From: Grubby
29-Sep-20
I’ve ran a bunch of these in ice houses hooked to 100 pounders, I can tell you that at -50 the propane doesn’t flow but if you’re not expecting that you probably won’t have any issues.

From: Habitat
29-Sep-20
I have some tanks that are alittle bigger but not 100 lb, bigger than regulars but would need adapted.I am in Kansas

From: 35-Acre
29-Sep-20
Yikes. This is scaring me and maybe that's because I don't have that same use/setup. I live in Western New York. At my property I have propane stove and lights. We have 2 tanks one is a 60 lb tank (I think) and one is a 20 lb tank. There is a regulator (T) between them and then goes inside. If one tank goes dead, I close the valve on that tank and then open the other and I'm good to go.

I've NEVER had an issue with the cold temps effecting the propane. We're talking temps down in the single digits and that can be both inside and out when I first arrive. The ONLY problems I've had is getting the lighters to work and have to switch over to blue tips if it's really cold.

Of course this propane setup isn't the same kind of draw and use that you are all referring to as I don't run a heater off of it. For that I have a wood burning stove and an old Coleman Kerosene Furnace (that works AWESOME! It uses a chimney and the kero is outside, comes in through a copper line to the furnace).

From: skookumjt
29-Sep-20
Propane stops flowing at about -45F no matter what.

The type of heater you are talking about are only marginally safe in the first place, so I would do whatever the manufacturer says to do to make sure they operate as designed. In many states they are illegal to use in indoor spaces even though they are sold at most home stores. There is a reason they use two regulators and 100# tanks. Listen to the manufacturer.

29-Sep-20
skook,

I don't know where you get most of your stuff. They cannot be sold in California and I believe Puerto Rico but they are legal every where else for indoor use. They are designed to be vent free and have a low O2 sensor shutoff. They are not designed for permanent supply of heat, but exactly for the type of situation I am asking about.

A two stage regulator is to provide a more consistent flow to the heater, Dyna suggested I use a two stage no matter what tank size.

Ben, thanks for the call this AM. Sounds like no one has had any problems with 40lb tanks so I will probably have a couple 100s but use the 40s as backup as long as I am there on site.

Skook, not wanting to be a jerk here but I believe it was you also that said me using a 1.5% Gly solution was technically illegal. FYI, my next door neighbor sold his family business, Feed Store/Elevator in Grain Field, KS, which they owned for 60 plus years. He laughed when I told him what you said, his reply was there are a lot more illegals then in KS than what he realized. He also drives his golf cart by my clover daily and said I should only use 1% if trying to get rid of the foxtail only. I only tell you this to exercise some caution. IN our litigious society manufacturers will always say we should do things that allow for zero risk. If we followed them all we would never leave the house. FWIW, I have two extra CO detectors in a cabin that is only 640 sf. The number one issue she said I would have with 40s is that there would not be enough volume of fuel to keep it lit. Relax a little.

Habitat, thank you. You probably have 40s, I have 3 of them and 2 20s as well so I am covered with small tanks.

Thanks everyone else!

From: skookumjt
29-Sep-20
Using pesticides at other than label recommendations is illegal and reckless as was pointed out by many other members. It's a topic that is covered every time I have to get continuing education for my applicators license and why I have to document the rate and crop for every application I do.

According to two heating contractors I discussed the vent free heaters with, they are against code. I'll go with their expertise.

29-Sep-20
There are no codes for this type of structure in the rural county my cabin is located.

It is not a pesticide but a herbicide.

Please know what you are talking about.

From: skookumjt
29-Sep-20
Take your own advice. All herbicides are pesticides that's why the license is a pesticide applicators license. All states have building codes that apply to all counties.

From: JohnMC
29-Sep-20

JohnMC's Link
Sounds like skook is right (see link). I would also guess there are some vs no building codes in your county. They may or may not be for the type of heater you put in your cabin.

29-Sep-20
Habitat, skook is correct. I can assure you, check first with your insurance , I know several that will not insure, a wall heater of any kind, on a second property, like a cabin etc..... some do, but mine does not. good luck

29-Sep-20
Ground Hunter, that is what drove this, the insurance company. There is not a code that regulates the type of heater that can be used in a temporary residence such as a cabin in my county. PERIOD. I live here, skook does not, he is NOT correct. The connections had to be certified by a licensed technician that there are no leaks, that's it. Get a different insurance company. If it was against code, no insurance company in their right mind would carry you. He doesn't live here, he does not know what the codes are. It doesn't even require a building permit. This is laughable actually.

John, again skook is not correct. A licensed applicator is bound by regulations and laws that a home owner/land owner is not. Purchase some Gly, it does not say you must use a 2% solution. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

From: JohnMC
29-Sep-20
He is correct that herbicides are pesticides. You said "It is not a pesticide but a herbicide. Please know what you are talking about." You tried to tell him he did not know what he was talking about because he referred to it as a pesticide.

29-Sep-20
Knowing the insurance business, all I can say, is have an issue, good luck, unless its on paper. Anyway, best of luck and have a great fall..............

29-Sep-20
Ground Hunter, it is on paper. Please read the Dyna Glo 30000 and see what it says. I have had insurance for 5 years. Just upgrading my heater.

herbicides (plural noun) a substance that is toxic to plants, used to destroy unwanted vegetation.

"farmers sprayed a protected wildflower meadow with herbicide"

Pesticides are chemical compounds that are used to kill pests, including insects, rodents, fungi and unwanted plants (weeds)

"technically" skook is correct on this one minor point, but most use pesticides to refer to killing insects, not plants. He still does not know what he is talking about as homeowners do not have to follow what a licensed commercial applicator does, and I know from actual experience.

And doing this dance with you John gets old. It is not illegal to use a propane heater in the application I am using it for, just as spraying 1.5% gly solution on my own target plants is not illegal. Apparently neither of you know what you are talking about. This is why people don't participate here. The negativity that comes from asking for people's experience on a certain topic, it typically turns into crap like this.

EDIT: And the application I am using this for is providing temporary supplemental heat ONLY while the structure is occupied.

From: DRR324
29-Sep-20
Habitat, 25 year OPs manager for LP and MI licensed Mech Contrator here- the heater will run just fine off of 20, 30, 40 pound cylinders as long as the temp outside allows the liquid to boil into vapor fast enough for the heater to burn. 92,000 Btus in a gallon of propane, so your heater will burn 1/3 of a gallon per hour. If the temps get low enough- the liquid level in the cylinder drops down to a point where it can't draw heat through the "wetted surface" (level of liquid) and therefore stops boiling into usable vapor. This is why many small tanks stop working on garage heaters but therre is still gas left in the tank. Run 2 tanks into a "t" prior to the regulator and leave both on during the night- shouldn't have any issues. The larger the tank- the more wetted surface- the better chance is has to boil into more vapor and last through a chilly night.

Now my safety soapbox- unvented heaters are not allowed as the sole heat source in any "sleeping area" here in the state of Michigan, not sure on your regs and assume the local inspectors don't care anyway. I would just say to not trust your life to a chinese made O2 sensor, crack a window near where you are sleeping to allow some fresh air at least during the night. Co2 is the silent and deadly killer, happens way more than people know- go to bed, never wake up.

From: skookumjt
29-Sep-20
The label on any pesticide is governed by federal law and applies to licensed professionals and consumers alike. Using it other than indicated on the label is illegal.

I didn't say it was illegal in your county, I said it was illegal in many states

You said your county doesn't have building codes. All states have building codes that apply to the whole state.

You are the one who keeps making incorrect statements while telling others they don't know what they are talking about.

From: JohnMC
29-Sep-20
Habitat with all due respect. You can't call someone out as wrong and tell them to know what they are talking about when they are in fact correct and not expect some push back. This is not a class room with a much of kids that need a grade from you.

29-Sep-20
John, knock it off OK? Quit carrying crap over every time you see a response from me. If you guys have nothing to add valuable like DRR above, go get a life. People are tired of arguing for the sake of arguing.

Skkok, There are no building codes for this type of structure because they are mostly used by people for extra storage. Please get some comprehension skills bud. One last time, there is nothing on the label that makes spraying 1.5% illegal. You are full of crap!!

Drr, agreed with everything you said. Also appreciate the T advice which is what Ben said also.

Yes, please note I said supplemental heating above as we have one large and one medium electric heater. I am aware of the risks, that is why I have 2 extra CO sensors. These types of structures are not sealed tight, it basically is a pole barn with insulation and OSB paneling. We typically heat the cabin before going to bed and put it down to the lowest setting at night. It is normally chilly when we awake because of the "leaking" around all of the joints. Propane is much more efficient at elevating the temperature quickly to a comfortable level as you obviously know as opposed to running a generator with electric heaters, even the 220 I wired directly and run with my 6000 watt running generator. It eats the gas. When I am solo there and my lab is left in the cabin while I am hunting, the electric heater is used to keep it half way comfortable for him. My original post was long enough and I did not feel the need to explain the minutia to see if a 30K BTU heater would run off of 40lb bottles like a 20K had been for me. That was what I was asking. DRR, FWIW, the 20k would run the 20 and 40lb bottles down next to almost no propane left. Why I asked the question is I simply did not want to be left in the position of being caught up there in some bad weather and having the bottles I have quit working. I will be prepared as said with something. A neighbor offered an old 50 gallon bottle that the local propane company is checking out and if in good enough shape will install a new valve and will deliver propane to it. They are not allowed to fill bottles off of the truck like the 100lb and lower that need to be weighed. He also will eventually be able to get me a 125 gallon most likely, and that size or smaller does not need to be 25' from the structure so we will have the room.

And BTW, the second call to Dyna they actually said it would run off of the 20s and 40s. They tell you a minimum of a 100 because of what Drr pointed out above. It had nothing to do with safety, but whether or not it would still burn.

I post this information in hopes others building a new cabin may find it useful. Thanks again Drr.

From: skookumjt
29-Sep-20
Writing longer doesn't change the fact you are wrong.

I never said there were building codes for those kinds of buildings. I just pointed out you were wrong that there were no codes.

There is language on every tag stating that deviating from the label is illegal.

Go find another topic.

29-Sep-20
Go get a life. There is no code on the building and that is what i was obviously talking about.

Using 1.5 percent is not deviating from the label.

Try answering people's questions instead of offering your opinion on something they never asked about.

You offered absolutely nothing useful on this thread, once again.

From: lv2bohunt
29-Sep-20
Geez I just watched the silly debates and then turn to this! Just let the guy be wrong For goodness sake.

From: Two Feathers
04-Oct-20
I have a new Dyna Glo 30k BTU heater sitting in my shack I haven't connected yet. I have decided to go with a 120 gallon propane tank. I believe the 100 lb bottles hold 20 gallons. I can't rent or lease a 120 gallon tank, I have to buy it and cost about $300. I'm headed up to my shack (no electric, no running water) today (northern Wis) and will be talking to the propane people tomorrow about getting the tank delivered and filled. I'm setting the tank right next to my shack. I have two 100 lb bottles already in place that run my gas lights and gas stove and they don't last all that long and then I have to haul them in to get refilled.

From: JusPassin
04-Oct-20
I sure get a kick out of all the concern over what is legal and what is illegal. You do know that when you come to a stop sign if your tires don't stop rolling completely you are "illegal"? The real question is who is going to enforce all these "legalities"? This is what happens to a society controlled by lawyers.

04-Oct-20
TF,

Where are you buying your tank from? Cheapest i have found for a 120 is over $600. Thanks.

BTW, hooked two 40s together, 2 stage regulator and it ran fine.

Passin, good point. They are only illegal in CA, not "many" states as erroneously stated. CA made them illegal not because of CO2, but cancer concerns.

This cabin is much better insulated and held the heat so the electric heater seldom came on at night. But it only got down to 46.

Thanks.

From: Two Feathers
05-Oct-20
Habitat for Wildlife: I was wrong on the price of the tank. Not $300 but $380 (empty) at the propane dealer in Tripoli WI. I was in my vehicle this morning ready to head there and buy the tank and had a change of heart. Now I plan to stick with 100 lbs tanks and run lights, stove and heater off a 100 lb tank. I'm old and not using this shack as much as I did years ago so I'm taking the easy way out. I also have wood heat and kerosene. No insulation. I want to get rid of the kerosene.

05-Oct-20
I will buy that for $380 if it is certified. That is a great deal really. Think about it even for resale at a later date.

I guess mine is more of a shack as well since i have no running water but i did wire it with 100 amp box, 20 amp 12 gauge recepticles (for the heater) and 15 amp 14 gauge wire for the lights. 30 amp twist plug wired to the box. R30 in the ceiling, R13 in the walls. Probably never recoup the cost of the insulation, but it is quiet and cozy.

Have a great Fall TF!

16-Oct-20

Habitat for Wildlife's embedded Photo
Habitat for Wildlife's embedded Photo
Was able to have a 250 gallon tank installed! This should work out well.

  • Sitka Gear