Land value?
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Boone 17-Nov-20
altitude sick 17-Nov-20
Bou'bound 17-Nov-20
Boone 17-Nov-20
Pat Lefemine 17-Nov-20
Thornton 17-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 17-Nov-20
altitude sick 17-Nov-20
x-man 17-Nov-20
bigswivle 17-Nov-20
Jackaroo 17-Nov-20
Dale06 17-Nov-20
Franklin 17-Nov-20
keepemsharp 17-Nov-20
Highlife 17-Nov-20
relliK reeD 17-Nov-20
Jack Whitmrie jr 17-Nov-20
South Farm 17-Nov-20
Buskill 17-Nov-20
Screwball 17-Nov-20
Jack Whitmrie jr 17-Nov-20
bowbender77 17-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 17-Nov-20
t-roy 17-Nov-20
Charlie Rehor 17-Nov-20
t-roy 17-Nov-20
South Farm 17-Nov-20
tkjwonta 17-Nov-20
LBshooter 17-Nov-20
Dale06 17-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 17-Nov-20
Highlife 17-Nov-20
Plum lake 17-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 17-Nov-20
Jackaroo 17-Nov-20
Screwball 17-Nov-20
woodguy65 17-Nov-20
Pete-pec 17-Nov-20
spike buck 17-Nov-20
Two Feathers 17-Nov-20
N-idaho 17-Nov-20
craigmcalvey 18-Nov-20
bigswivle 18-Nov-20
Aluminum Rain 18-Nov-20
altitude sick 18-Nov-20
Boone 18-Nov-20
ben 18-Nov-20
Franklin 18-Nov-20
320 bull 18-Nov-20
altitude sick 18-Nov-20
South Farm 18-Nov-20
JohnMC 18-Nov-20
Boone 18-Nov-20
Bou'bound 18-Nov-20
Highlife 18-Nov-20
Highlife 18-Nov-20
Jaquomo 18-Nov-20
Pete-pec 18-Nov-20
Cornpone 18-Nov-20
wioutdoors74 18-Nov-20
JohnMC 18-Nov-20
JayZ 18-Nov-20
Boone 18-Nov-20
Highlife 18-Nov-20
txhunter58 18-Nov-20
txhunter58 18-Nov-20
Highlife 18-Nov-20
LBshooter 18-Nov-20
Dale06 18-Nov-20
IdyllwildArcher 18-Nov-20
casper 18-Nov-20
Dale06 19-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 19-Nov-20
Pat Lefemine 19-Nov-20
standswittaknife 19-Nov-20
deerhunter72 19-Nov-20
Dale06 19-Nov-20
Habitat 19-Nov-20
Jaquomo 19-Nov-20
t-roy 19-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 19-Nov-20
ben 19-Nov-20
Sand man 19-Nov-20
elash 19-Nov-20
NEIAbowhunter 19-Nov-20
Guardian hunter 20-Nov-20
BigOzzie 20-Nov-20
LINK 20-Nov-20
Candor 23-Nov-20
RK 23-Nov-20
Daff 23-Nov-20
From: Boone
17-Nov-20
Good morning everyone. I have myself and wife convinced it's time to purchase our own little plot of land to hunt on. I have always leased land since I can remember I'm currently 35 and live in Buffalo county Wisconsin and current price per acre is $4000 plus around my house where we will be purchasing land. Wondering what everyone else around the country sees for land per acre. $4000 an acre is just crazy but don't see the price coming down anytime soon.

17-Nov-20
That seems like an average price for good hunting land. Not high, not low.

From: Bou'bound
17-Nov-20
That’s a steal man

From: Boone
17-Nov-20
If it's a steal at $4000 to $5000 an acre where do you guys live and what are you seeing for prices

From: Pat Lefemine
17-Nov-20
My Ohio ground was 3850/acre. My NY ground was $580/acre. I've killed 2 bucks in 10 years in NY. I have passed up 5 bucks bigger than the two I killed in NY already this season.

It's all about what your objectives are. If you want good hunting ground you'll be paying for it. If you are OK shooting dinks and does, there is far less expensive ground.

BTW - you live in one of the top whitetail counties in the country. That price seems very reasonable but it's impossible to say without more details like how many acres, surrounding properties, land features, etc.

From: Thornton
17-Nov-20
It is skyrocketing here in KS. Bought mine 10 years ago for 1250/ acre. Best decision I ever made.

From: Grey Ghost
17-Nov-20
I paid $3000/acre for my place 20 years ago. The going rate at that time was $2500/acre. But my place has 4 natural springs on it, so I paid a $500/acre premium.

I haven't checked recently, but I'm sure prices are north of $5000/acre, now.

Matt

17-Nov-20
A lot of factors go into the decision. but I agree, if a lot of those factors come into alignment hunting land is a good investment. But there are many details to work Thru to make it that way.

From: x-man
17-Nov-20
That's half the price of good tillable farm land. Around here, farmers are buying up "hunting land" and dozing it over and tilling it.

From: bigswivle
17-Nov-20
I know y’all don’t give a crap about FL but a neighboring 1,000acres to my families places(woods and pasture-50/50) just sold for 12,000$Acre. Craziness down here

From: Jackaroo
17-Nov-20
https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Todays_Reports/reports/land0819.pdf

From: Dale06
17-Nov-20
Location, location, location. That’s what they say about real estate. I bought mine (640 acres) in west central Ks in 09, for $900 per acre. And that was above market. See first sentence above. A section (640 acres) sold recently there for $580 an acre. No trees, and not good farm land. And 10% of it floods most years. But it would hold good pheasant population and some deer. Would need to bait for deer, but it’s doable and legal there. I was just offered 320 acres joining my land, pasture, no trees, at $900 per acre. I thought that was high and told the seller to let me know if he will take a good bit less. I’ve not heard from him.

From: Franklin
17-Nov-20
That rate has been around in Wisc. for years now, doesn`t seem to be changing much. You could expect to pay between $3000- 3500 per acre when the deal is complete. There are some deals but they are discounted some, not a lot.

Consider your tax liabilities into your equation....recreation property gets hit pretty hard.

From: keepemsharp
17-Nov-20
$4,000 around this neighborhood better have some pivot irrigation on it.

From: Highlife
17-Nov-20
Last I heard no one's making more of it.

From: relliK reeD
17-Nov-20
Wow did not realize it was that expensive. I just bought 49 acres of hardwood with a 800 sf fully finished and furnished hunting cabin in Lakeville Maine with deeded access to 4 lakes, nice maintained gravel road only 4 miles to a paved road and 8 miles to a store for $46,800. Taxes are $161 dollars a year. Nice hunting lot with birds, deer and moose. Location, location, location

17-Nov-20
Wow 400K for 100 acres of hunting ground , that's a lot considering you can go on 66.6 hunts that you have 6K or less in. I know it's nice to have your own land to plan hunts on and build memories. BUT not everyone has that kind of money.

Wow 400K for 100 acres, I guess the market is just that. BUT I can go on 66.6 hunts that cost 6K or less for that money.

From: South Farm
17-Nov-20
No matter the cost, one shitty neighbor can ruin every square acre of it..

I would invest WAY MORE in getting to know the neighbors, finding out their future intentions, and making a plan based off that than simply the cost/acre. Everything can be just peachy until that 88 year old nice farmer next door croaks and his prick grandkids from Minneapolis move in and shoot fireworks every weekend...or worse...chunk it off to 20 other a-holes who will pull in their fifth wheels and party every weekend. Get to know the locals, pique their brains, and gauge the future best as you can. You'll get over the price way before you'll get over listening to AR's, fireworks, and ATV's every weekend. Trust me..

From: Buskill
17-Nov-20
So many factors to consider. Some mountain land here in Va might just be 1000$ an acre but more prime tillable stuff may be 5000$. The presence of things like mineral rights also has a big effect on price.

From: Screwball
17-Nov-20
$4000 in Buffalo county is good pricing. Obviously depending on the land etc.

17-Nov-20
What south farm said ^^^^^^^

From: bowbender77
17-Nov-20
Even if you have a good neighbor when you buy, things can still change i.e., death , family issues, etc. etc. There is more truth in the saying, that you can pick a lock and you can pick your nose but you cant pick your neighbors. Been there, done that.

From: Grey Ghost
17-Nov-20
Whatever the price is in your area, I think it's safe to say it's not likely to get any cheaper.

Matt

From: t-roy
17-Nov-20
Prices here in Iowa can vary a lot, depending on lots of different factors. Proximity to larger metropolitan areas, how much tillable is with it, size of parcel, area of the state, etc. A broad generalization of recreational hunting property costs here would be roughly in the $2,500-$4,000 range. Timing and other unseen factors can come into play sometimes, as well.

I bought my first farm (87 acres) back in the late 90s for $475/acre. It was, however, a sweetheart deal, as it was part of my grandpa’s farm and my aunts and uncles wanted it to stay in the family, if possible. They were (almost) as happy about it as I was! The second farm (114 acres) I bought at a land auction in 2014. I went to the auction with a buddy who was hoping to get it bought, but was pretty limited in what he could afford to pay. I had zero intentions in buying this land, and didn’t even get a bidding number when I got there. The bidding went just past what he could pay, and then stopped. I thought that price was WAY too cheap! They stopped the auction to confer with the landowner to see if they were willing to sell it at that price. After my buddy assured me he couldn’t go any higher, I went up and got a bidding number and ended up buying it for probably less than half of what it should have brought. IMO, the 2 biggest factors involved for me being able to buy that piece were #1....the State wasn’t at this auction for some reason. There is other state owned hunting land within a short distance to this property. I’m certain that if they had been there, they would have ended up owning it #2.....there were 3-4 other individuals that I knew, who were interested in it, and some reason, they were not at the auction either. Right place..right time for me. My other farm (74 acres) adjoins my dad’s property on 2 sides and a big river on the west, plus it is less than 1/4 mile from my home place. I had to pay more for that piece than the second farm, but still pretty much in line with what the average land values were bringing. Plus, you rarely get a chance to buy land that adjoins you.

Personally, there’s not many things that I get more satisfaction out of, than doing the many various things and activities that my family and I can do on my own piece of dirt!

17-Nov-20
T-Roy also recommends attending land auctions by yourself in case there’s a real good deal

From: t-roy
17-Nov-20
Also highly recommended that you let your wife know you might be buying some land BEFORE you do it, also! ;-)

From: South Farm
17-Nov-20
Women like surprises!

From: tkjwonta
17-Nov-20
t-roy, don't you know it's better to ask forgiveness than permission ;)? Plus, would your wife rather have you gallivanting all over the country chasing animals, or right down the road in a treestand?

Dang, now I might have to go check some land listings myself...

From: LBshooter
17-Nov-20
Your 35, and your buying land at 4k per acre in a great cty for deer. Think of what that land will sell for when your ready to retire? Good investment amd they ain't making any more.

From: Dale06
17-Nov-20
My second post on this matter. I would never buy hunting land if I had any doubt about my ongoing financial situation. There really is more important things than having your own hunting land. But if you have the funds, why not.

From: Grey Ghost
17-Nov-20

Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
Grey Ghost's embedded Photo
"Your 35, and your buying land at 4k per acre in a great cty for deer. Think of what that land will sell for when your ready to retire? Good investment amd they ain't making any more."

Hmm, I'm going to have to disagree with this one. Above is a chart showing the historical agricultural land prices for Wisconsin. As you can see, the average per acre price in 2012 was $3365. In 2017, it was $4025, which is basically were it is now in 2020, according to the OP.

So, if my math is correct, that's only a 19.6% gain in 8 years, or roughly 2.4% per year. That's not much of an investment. It's barely greater than the rate of inflation.

There are many reasons to own your own acreage. But, an investment isn't one of them, in most cases. There are exceptions, obviously.

Matt

From: Highlife
17-Nov-20
I didn't even think about my land as an investment. BWTS I've plans on selling off some timber between storms and tornadoes it kills me to see money laying on the ground

From: Plum lake
17-Nov-20
land in the US is unbelievably expensive by what I'm seeing. In my area in Canada land is selling for $150-$200 an acre. And I think it's a little over priced for some.

From: Grey Ghost
17-Nov-20
Land is worth wha t people are willing to spend on it. just like anything.There are legit reasons why land in Canada is valued less than the States.

Matt.

From: Jackaroo
17-Nov-20
Mineral rights also affect the price.

From: Screwball
17-Nov-20
Land in Buffalo Cty. for sale is averaging 5000.00 per acre on many listings. My brother and I bought our 710 acres starting in the 80's, great profit margin today. From $86.00 an acre to offers of $2750.00. It is now in a trust for our kids. Our enjoyment, our kids, etc. were our rate of gain. Habitat improvement trophy bucks, bear and turkey. When I want to go out on our land I may run into my brother.

From: woodguy65
17-Nov-20
It sure aint going to get cheaper. People are moving from cities to suburban and rural settings at record pace. Also people are moving from blue States to red States at the same pace due to current political "events" ie violence from the left and work at home employee's - meaning you can now live anywhere.

From: Pete-pec
17-Nov-20
I'd continue leasing, although I cannot stand the concept personally. It ruined the idea that people could literally knock on enough doors, and expect to hunt a piece of property. I think Buffalo County is only good, because most everyone leases, most private land is managed, there's very little public, and hornography has consumed people exponentially in this state. Land isn't much cheaper anywhere else in the state though, except for forest land in wolf country, but most of it if managed properly could grow horn. I'd think long and hard about the money invested in the 80 acres you're going to buy, and the quarter million it will cost you to say you own a chunk of the legendary buffalo county. You'll literally spend a great portion of your retirement on a damn deer. In my opinion, it's the dumbest money spent. Yes, they don't make more land, but I'd personally take a multitude of rejection and ask to hunt property outside of buffalo county instead, and I'd buy 250k worth of gold instead. There's no magic pill besides the QDM principles that set this place apart from many other places with the same exact recipe. Age, food and water are what grows deer. Genetics? Come on! Pay attention to what deer are killed elsewhere in this state. I'm not saying buffalo is bad, I'm just saying there is equal land for rent elsewhere, even if it isn't close to home, and if you want to be close to home, there's the option you're already using. Again, I cannot stand what leasing land did to hunting, and equally what horn porn did to land prices, but owning an overpriced piece of property to kill big bucks is just silly. You can kill a hammer in a random fenceline in corn country, if you spent the time in a single stand during the right time of the year, and I know guys who do it each and every year for free.

Okay, that was purely opinion, and it's your money, not mine. Good luck!

From: spike buck
17-Nov-20
Paid $6000.00 CAD for 103 Acres back in 1991. Had 3500 ft of shoreline. With 1 island. Had no road access. Access only by lake. We built a 3.6 KM road. Found a gravel pit on the property. Have a private main lodge now and single guest cabin on the lake. No Whitetail hunting open at the time of purchase. Good whitetail population and hunting now. Then bought 80 Acres for $30,000 CAD which abutted the property in order to land lock the crown. NW Ontario. When I bought the property, Screwball (Brian) and I walked on the property for the first time. Was like a jungle...

From: Two Feathers
17-Nov-20
I have a 40 in Oneida Co. Wisconsin. I'm thinking it worth about $2,000 an acre, maybe less. I've never had it appraised.

From: N-idaho
17-Nov-20
North Idaho is probably close to 10,000 per acre.

From: craigmcalvey
18-Nov-20
Land is worth whatever the buyer is willing to pay. Best investment I’ve ever made was owning my own hunting property. IMO, owning by close to home makes the mosey sense as you will use it more. If you can afford it, jump on it and don’t look back.

Craig

From: bigswivle
18-Nov-20
I know a few people with the upcoming administration change that are gonna bail on the market and invest in land.

18-Nov-20
While land may or may not be a good investment, depending on the circumstances, it would seem to be a bit of an over reaction to bail out of the market. The market is certainly due for a correction. However, Presidents may have less influence than many would think. Under the Obama/Biden administration the Dow went from 7950 to 19,800. The most numerical gain, so far, of any administration in history.

18-Nov-20
If it’s a partial investment it’s no different than any other commodity you have to buy low you cannot buy at the peak of the market and expect to make money.

Wait till comrade Bernie helps Biden tank the economy and then buy.

From: Boone
18-Nov-20
Yeah it's a blessing and a curse at the same time to live in Buffalo county Wisconsin. Trophy potential deer but land prices high. I could purchase land in northern Wisconsin for way cheaper but it would be nice to drive 20 minutes and be at your land.

From: ben
18-Nov-20
Some acreage just sold last week after being on the market for four days. $6000 an acre. We are very rural with cattle, pasture and feed fields and 50 miles south of Kansas City on the Kansas/ Mo. line. Closer to town it goes up quickly. Glad I bought 30+ years ago for $500 an acre.

From: Franklin
18-Nov-20
The golden age of making money on land is long gone. Like Grey Ghost and Pete Pec mentioned Wisconsin land values have been stagnant for years and there will be no boom in the future.

The same goes for your primary residence. For most of us our Interest and Insurance monthly payment exceeds our mortgage. In some areas of the country you will pay between $8000- 13,000 a year in taxes alone for a modest home.

I always hear "I made so much money when I sold my home" and I say BS. Add into your initial cost all the taxes, insurance, upkeep and improvement costs during the period you owned that home and you would be craphouse lucky to break even. There are benefits to owning a home but as "an investment" isn`t one of them.

From: 320 bull
18-Nov-20
In my area of SW MI land of cruella the dictator a parcel of any size is gonna be at least 8k an acre. The smaller the more expensive. I bought 4 acres in 03 for 56k. My good buddy just sold an 80 acre highly productive hay field for a million bucks.

18-Nov-20

altitude sick's embedded Photo
altitude sick's embedded Photo
I’m selling 41 acres in Colorado right now through Whitetail Properties real estate. $50k There are still deals available. Not investments. But good land values Steep draws and rock formations make it feel a lot more than 41 when walking it.

Great views of Mt Blanca, mature ponderosa pines. Great Mule deer, good elk. It’s own private gate onto the ranch off Hwy 160

It’s part of a 17,000 acre ranch. Of which 10,000 of hunting land is open to ranch owners. Next to national forest.

The reason this isn’t $200k an acre is there is no work or skiing close.

Remote for Colorado

From: South Farm
18-Nov-20
Work and skiing are both overrated anyway :)

From: JohnMC
18-Nov-20
I think Franklin is wrong. My home is worth twice what I bought it for about 17 years ago. It is paid for. Insurance and taxes cost me a few grand a year. I am not saying I could not sell my home live in a tent and invest what I could sell it for in something else and not have a little more money in that pile in 20 years, than if I were to sell home in 20 years. The alternative is to pay rent to someone and 100% of that is gone at the end of the month. Rent in many places will damn near make a mortgage payment each month.

As far as land goes I don't own any, thought a lot about it and came close once. With that said I would not put a large percentage of my nest egg into land or a large percentage of what you have to invest each month into a land payment. However if you are looking for a safe long term investment with a smaller percentage of your investable assets I think land can be a wise piece of your strategy. It can be a good way to diversify your investments. Not to mention the amount of enjoyment you can get from it has significant value.

From: Boone
18-Nov-20
As far as home/rent we own our house and currently have a single family home we rent out. The wife said when we get a rental we will use that money to purchase land and knock on wood we have had good renters who pay on time. So before she goes and buys another one it's time for land so I wont be dipping deep into an account for land just using the renters money per say.

From: Bou'bound
18-Nov-20
Committing to deer land may limit opportunities to do other hunts for some. You have to really love deer to spend hundreds of thousands to insure access.

From: Highlife
18-Nov-20

From: Highlife
18-Nov-20
So go for it your young and looks like you have the financials worked out.

From: Jaquomo
18-Nov-20

Jaquomo's embedded Photo
Jaquomo's embedded Photo
A home as an investment depends on where you live. My brother in law lives and has property outside Kingman KS and he couldn't break even if he sold now because nobody wants to live there. He bought 26 years ago.

I built my CO mountain place 15 years ago for $290K including land. Paid cash using equity from a small rental home I sold down in town. Taxes, insurance and fees over that time have totaled $47K. So I have $337K into it. Our local realtor/expert told me he could sell it next week for $450K.

So did it match the return if I'd had it in the bull market? No, and hindsight is 20/20. But I am in one of the most beautiful places in the country, surrounded by National Forest, can walk to catch trout up to 6 lbs, killed my bull last year five minutes from the house, see moose almost every day. That is something which transcends pure monetary value.

From: Pete-pec
18-Nov-20
A lot of good information on a forum that is about bow hunting. There is a lot of truth said here. Truth is often based on opinion, and opinion is a personal matter, in which we often "invest" the most equity into. The "truth" is, it's how it pleases you, and if you're happy, there's not a damn opinion on here worth anything. Do what you feel makes the most sense for you, and ultimately, the worst thing that can happen, is you realized it wasn't exactly as planned. Well, there's probably more "wealth" in failure, than success, so you can hardly blow it either way. Money is something you can't take with you, and honestly, there's probably nothing else you can either, so I firmly believe in the moment, and gratification comes in many forms! So what say you Kyle? You'll find your answer when you find your answer.

From: Cornpone
18-Nov-20
Land prices are totally relative. Whether you pay $500, $1K, $5K or $10K an acre doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not you're paying an inflated price. In other words...if you can turn around and sell it for what you paid for it, or more, within a reasonable amount of time it's a good deal. All it's going to cost you is the yearly taxes. So the only thing you have to be concerned with is the yearly taxes and whether or not those are worth owning it. Not rocket science.

From: wioutdoors74
18-Nov-20
"Value" can be measured more than just monetary value, and the measure of "value" will vary from person to person. Land, especially recreational land, is an example of that. You can't "use" equities or gold. But you can make alot of money from them. You can use land, and maybe, just maybe, make some money on it, especially over the long-term. So how do you measure value? I own land. In that case, I bought it not for monetary value, but for use value. I currently use it. I manage the land. God willing my kids will use it long after I'm gone. In that case, having our own piece of paradise is worth it. That said, as pretty much any financial advisor will say, diversification is key. If investing in a piece of rec land is going to prohibit you from investing in other financial products for a long time, then you really have to be ok w/ that and the fact you likely will leave other monetary or wealth options out of portfolio. Time IS money. The longer it has a chance to work, the more you will gain. So I guess it all comes down to how you balance your short- vs. long-term positions and what your ultimate end-game is as the years move on.

From: JohnMC
18-Nov-20
Cornpone that not all it is going to cost you though. If you bought a piece of property for $500,000, then sold it 10 years later for $500.000. You also lost what that $500,000 would have made invested in something else during that time. Had you put that 500k in the market most 10 year period you would have a million or more at the end of the 10 years.

From: JayZ
18-Nov-20
I know a guy who years ago (late 90's) bought several thousand acres for around $500/acre. The guy now owns about 8500 acres. Cash rent alone per year is over $600k and his land is worth $17 million using a conservative estimate of $2000/acre. This guy isn't regretting making that purchase.

Just a few years ago in my neck of the woods that same land would have brought easily $3000/acre average. It's come down some in the last few years because of tough crop prices, historically wet conditions, etc. Those saying land won't go down are wrong. It can and does under certain conditions.

That being said if you can time a land purchase right it can make you a ton of money.

From: Boone
18-Nov-20
I am all for making some money in the long run with land purchase but the way me and the wife see it we will never see that money back as hunting land would be handed down to the kids. Unlike my rental I know I'm selling that at retirement age (30 more years) and make money. So those with land and kids do you just hand it down and take the 100k plus loss?

From: Highlife
18-Nov-20
I'm handing mine down to our daughters hell I've son inlaw who has asked for first divs to buy if for some reason we decide to. Now when I got the property its tax value was 500.00 an acre in 93. It's now 2500.00 an acre and land is going anywhere from 4000.00 to 6500.00 depending upon where it's at in the county.

From: txhunter58
18-Nov-20
Can’t compare raw hunting land to real estate with a cabin/house on it. Apples and oranges when you are talking appreciation in value

From: txhunter58
18-Nov-20

From: Highlife
18-Nov-20
In my case it is apple to apple

From: LBshooter
18-Nov-20
Owning a hunting property in a great cty for whitetail at 35 is a win. Family, friends, private hunting and growing your own herd, and have the enjoyment of watching your family hunt is a win win. 20 years out you'll come out on top, and if you don't want to sell , leave it to your kids, I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

From: Dale06
18-Nov-20
My kids will get my Ks land that I bought in 2009.

18-Nov-20
Are you in need of a son, Dale..., I mean, dad...

From: casper
18-Nov-20
That midwest land is dirt cheap, here in Arizona if it has trees and in the mountains its worth 50,000 a acre to a 100,000 a acre . better buy up quick.

From: Dale06
19-Nov-20
Idyllwildarcher, thanks for the offer, but I’m not adopting any kids or adults??

From: Grey Ghost
19-Nov-20
Lou's place is another example of a property that has barely kept up with inflation over 15 years. By comparison, his initial $290K investment would be worth over $900K today, conservatively, had he invested it in the markets. Of course, everyone has to live somewhere, so that's always going to be an expense, like a vehicle or groceries. Lou picked a beautiful spot to live. But when he factors in routine maintenance and upkeep costs, he'll be lucky to break even if/when he ever sells it.

I still contend undeveloped acreage is rarely a good investment relative to other investments.. Especially if it's strictly a hunting property for the owner, family, and friends. One can certainly argue that owning your own place to hunt is invaluable, and I'd agree with that. But from a purely financial perspective, not so much.

Matt

From: Pat Lefemine
19-Nov-20

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Sitting on my investment as I type this.
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Sitting on my investment as I type this.
My PA land is worth 15x what I paid for it. My NY land is 2-3x what I paid for it. My Ohio ground can be sold tomorrow for 200k more since we renovated the house.

I am sitting in my tree on the outskirts of a bedding area that has pics of 5 shooters and 15 rack bucks.

Best investment I’ve ever made is my hunting property. Even if the value goes down I get immeasurable happiness from it. No mutual fund can beat that return.

19-Nov-20
Well said...

From: deerhunter72
19-Nov-20
We paid an about $2,500/acre for 50 acres in Southern Illinois last year. The ground in right in the middle of the area that I've hunted my entire life and it's 5 minutes from home. I've been fortunate to hunt private ground all of these years but leasing is starting to change that and I saw a day coming when I, and especially my kids, might not have a place to hang our hats. I didn't buy this as an investment although it does give us some diversity. We did clear off 20 acres of grown over pasture and a farmer friend cash rented for beans this year. Clearing that off was a tough call because it held deer really well but it was overgrown with locust/thorn trees and I just couldn't let those continue to go unchecked. So, we now have about a 50/50 split between hunting ground and tillable. Clearing the pasture added a lot of value to the ground plus we will have about $3,000/year income off of the place from here on out. Not a lot, but enough to cover taxes on the ground plus our home. We also had the woods timbered and that brought $27k and I threw most of that back into the loan.

Tillable ground around here is going for 4-5k/acre for average ground and higher for good ground. 20 years ago it was around 2.5k/ acre. 35-40 years ago it could be bought for $500-1000/acre. I have several friends who are "land" millionaires. A really good friend is closing on 60 acres of scrub ground very shortly at $4,350/acre but it joins his home place and he's very wealthy so price didn't matter so much to him.

The ground we bought will most likely be given to my son at some point, so whatever it's worth now or in the future doesn't particularly matter. I like having it and knowing that it's mine is worth alot. Probably not the best financial decision we have ever made from an investment standpoint, but there are alot of other factors that make it well worth it. I watched my parents pass on opportunity after opportunity on good ground when i was a kid and I certainly wish they had pulled the trigger at least once but they never did. I'd certainly rather inherit ground than money, but that's me.

From: Dale06
19-Nov-20
I paid cash for my Ks land. If it were to sell today, I would not get much more than what I paid for it. I paid a bit to much for it, cause of its size, condition and location. On the other hand I have received revenues of roughly 50% of the my purchase price. Those came from CRP payments, oil leases, and three oil pipelines running across and being buried on my land. Like others have said, there in my case are better performing financial options. I’d buy this land again tomorrow if it were for sale.

From: Habitat
19-Nov-20
In Kansas we see most land around me for around 2300.00 per acre.I gave from 500.00 to 1300.00 per acre so if I make an average of 8000 per year off crops and keep for 20 years I dang near paid it off and I know I could sell for over 2000 per acre.I just did a trust for my kids but only if they have a prenup to protect it when I die and they also have to offer to sibling for 500.00 per acre if they want to sell their half.I know some that buy life insurance to pay the heirs of that family and the survivor keeps the land.Best investment I could have ever done.Look at those shows on TV where the 20 something kids have a home budget of 700.000.Dang glad they don't know how many acres they could buy for that.

From: Jaquomo
19-Nov-20
GG, just to clarify, that cabin and land are not my primary residence. It's my dream fishing and hunting cabin, and you're right, simply keeping the money in the market would have been a much better investment.

But when I wake up in the morning and watch moose while drinking coffee on the deck and deciding where to go fish or hike or bike or hunt mushrooms, it's worth a million bucks to me. The intrinsic, relative value can't be measured in dollars because it makes my life so much richer. I view the purchase of hunting land the same way, so long as one can afford it without compromising long term family financial security.

From: t-roy
19-Nov-20
Lou, Pat and others x2^^^ I can walk out my back door, and be in one of the best whitetail stands on the farm in less than 200 yards, mushroom, turkey, etc. hunt just down the trail. The enjoyment we get from the property pays way higher dividends (to me at least) than my 401K account ever will. Habitat improvement, etc is great therapy, too.

From: Grey Ghost
19-Nov-20
Lou,

Agreed. You can't place a dollar value on happiness. We bought our Winter Park condo at the peak of the markets in 2008 just before the markets crashed. The condo's value didn't climb back to what we paid for it for almost a decade. It was the worst financial investment I've made. But it's been the best investment for our happiness and our lives, in general.

I was responding to those who think hunting acreage is a good financial investment. Discussing the value of a property in multiples of what you paid for it, like Pat did above, is meaningless, unless you include how long you've owned it, as well as other costs like capital improvements, taxes, insurance, mortgage interest, maintenance and upkeep. When you factor in all cost over time, hunting properties rarely produce a return, unless you find ways for them to generate income.

Matt

From: ben
19-Nov-20
Very well stated Jaquomo. I feel the same way, all my kids will do is fight over what little I have one day so I might as well enjoy it while I can.

From: Sand man
19-Nov-20
I’m looking to purchase something here in the next 5 yrs.

I’ve found that if you get a zoning map and search for ground that is within a FEMA flood plane area the price reflects this. Not to mention a large portion of “flood plane” is ideal deer habitat.

Can’t build in a flood plane....

From: elash
19-Nov-20
Have owned hunting land since the early 90s, first in Iowa and now in Wisconsin. Vacant land can be a pretty fair investment as it often pays taxes, and some of the other expenses. There is "opportunity loss" if you think there are better investments...I just have not forgotten the wonderful things 2000 and 2008 did to our paper assets (and I'd bet that happens again). That's all pretty dry. I have loved our properties, and would be willing to work my a$$ off and give up other luxuries to do it all again. It's been a great ride.

19-Nov-20
In my part of Iowa it depends on the ground. Good black tillable probably averages around 8-8500 an acre. Timber, if thats about all it can be used for is in that 2500-3500 range. If you try to buy a chunk of farm ground to build on that's about 12,000/acre. I bought my timber that I build my house on for about 4400/acre. Any other decent rec. property with a trail cam picture of a nice buck, sky's the limit it seems judging by some of the ground sold here in recent years.

20-Nov-20
This is a little different twist. Instead of buying farms I bought houses that had 3 to 10 acres with them. I rented the houses out and hunted the backyards on small lots. Probably killed 10 good bucks in the last 20 years. The rent that I received averaged about 10 to 15% return on equity. so I made money created my own pension as I'm self-employed and hunted deer. Truth be told I would have rather owned a farm but couldn't make financial sense out of it. certainly could make enjoyment sense but that just wasn't enough for me. We all have our ways

From: BigOzzie
20-Nov-20
Clarifying statement "I have not invested in land, I am lucky to squeak by"

I have a section of land, it was given to me, 15 years ago, it is worth way more than it was when it was given to me. Land values go up and down like any other investment. The family member that gave me the land made it big buying and selling land, he had a gift, and didn't get greedy.

But on the converse I have also watched people lose their @#$ investing in land. They got spread too thin, and the economy dipped, and kabloom they lost more than just the land, they lost their shirts.

Invest, don't gamble.

The op sounds like he is investing, good luck go for it.

oz

From: LINK
20-Nov-20
Lou, your brother in law can’t get his money back near kingman? It must be farm ground because that’s some of the best whitetail country I’ve seen. People buying whitetail hunting properties from Arkansas and Chicago don’t need a job near kingman, just an airport. There’s one of those at Wichita. From what I’ve seen they are paying a pretty penny for good Kansas hunting land on Whitetail Properties real estate.

From: Candor
23-Nov-20
If life is measured by more than a ledger you will have several factors above the appropriate land valuation. Hunting land considerations are relatively simple: How close it is to my house (ie am I able to hunt it more)? Can I reasonably kill what I want to kill (this is involved, I know)? Can I hunt in a fashion that I prefer?

Ledger value: Road frontage sewer/water growth trajectory of nearby towns Does it have enough high ground where I can harvest timber during wet years if I want Trailers nearby topography and a number of other things....

I see land of comparable hunting value w/in an hour of my house for $1000-$5000/acre.

From: RK
23-Nov-20
Lou. If you ever decide to sell don't let GG anywhere near the process. LMAO !!

From: Daff
23-Nov-20
Got family in trempleau county, all I can say is Wisconsin TAXES. The hunting up there is great, I think I'd have to wretch every time I looked at the tax bill. I'm along way from there but a friend just purchased 530 acres@ $500 an acre. I told him if the guy wants to part with a couple hundred more I'd be all over it. It's not got the reputation many of the midwestern states have but it has given up some 160" deer on a semi regular basis. I wish I'd bought younger in life but... If you can find a good deal you can make happen financially go for it! and good luck

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