Mathews Inc.
Shoulder test
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Zbone 19-Nov-20
GF 19-Nov-20
Live2Hunt 19-Nov-20
skookumjt 19-Nov-20
Bou'bound 19-Nov-20
Brotsky 19-Nov-20
JohnMC 19-Nov-20
LINK 19-Nov-20
Shiras42 19-Nov-20
skookumjt 19-Nov-20
kakiatkids 19-Nov-20
drycreek 19-Nov-20
RIT 19-Nov-20
skookumjt 19-Nov-20
LINK 19-Nov-20
APauls 19-Nov-20
APauls 19-Nov-20
Swampbuck 19-Nov-20
Empty Freezer 19-Nov-20
GF 19-Nov-20
Duke 19-Nov-20
Rupe 20-Nov-20
altitude sick 20-Nov-20
altitude sick 20-Nov-20
drycreek 20-Nov-20
Ambush 20-Nov-20
Scooby-doo 20-Nov-20
Korey Wolfe 20-Nov-20
Knife2sharp 20-Nov-20
Ambush 20-Nov-20
Swampbuck 20-Nov-20
BOWNUT 20-Nov-20
Ambush 20-Nov-20
altitude sick 20-Nov-20
BOWNUT 20-Nov-20
BC 20-Nov-20
GF 20-Nov-20
JohnMC 20-Nov-20
Knife2sharp 20-Nov-20
Matt 21-Nov-20
Thunderhawk 21-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 21-Nov-20
LINK 21-Nov-20
altitude sick 21-Nov-20
18-Nov-20

Average guy outdoors's Link
What happens when you hit a deer shoulder?That is what I tested in this video,it's not completely valid for several reasons such as the shoulder being against a hard Surface,and several Other reasons,but interesting None the same.

From: Zbone
19-Nov-20
If you hear the loud crack,,,, it ain't good...

From: GF
19-Nov-20
I got 2 minutes into this and decided that I didn’t have 20 minutes for it....

From: Live2Hunt
19-Nov-20
The biggest issue with a shoulder hit is the give under the shoulder. If it were solid, the arrow would/should go through.

From: skookumjt
19-Nov-20
I didn't even start to watch it. Everybody knows you can't simulate a shoulder shot on a living deer.

I've shot through several shoulders of mature whitetail bucks. Some on-side, some off-side, one through both. It can certainly be done, but it can also turn into a disaster. People act like it's harder than shooting through an oak tree.

From: Bou'bound
19-Nov-20
i love it when an 8th grader educates me

From: Brotsky
19-Nov-20
Are you shooting through the scapula or through the shoulder?

From: JohnMC
19-Nov-20
I skimmed through but that kid was hard to watch. He liked to hear himself talk - a lot.

From: LINK
19-Nov-20
Wow! 20 seconds was all I could take.

From: Shiras42
19-Nov-20
Wow! Flame on! Video not available.

From: skookumjt
19-Nov-20
On a deer the shoulder is the scapula. Some I went through the flat part of the scapula. Others I shattered the whole bone so it couldn't bear weight.

19-Nov-20
You guys are some of the most negative and disheartening group of hunters I've ever come in contact with.

From: kakiatkids
19-Nov-20

From: drycreek
19-Nov-20
^^^^^^^^ You gotta be tough to hang here. It’s hand-to-hand, man-to-man ! ;-)

19-Nov-20
So its not if you're a hunter or not but if you're a big bad talker.

From: RIT
19-Nov-20
Kid spends 10 minutes on the forum and has over half the crowd pegged already. That’s amazing.

From: skookumjt
19-Nov-20
When I was a kid, I listened to the guys with the grey hairs and learned from their experience and mistakes.

From: LINK
19-Nov-20
Skook but you weren’t trying to get YouTube fame.

From: APauls
19-Nov-20
Couldn’t find it. Must have been below average

19-Nov-20
I didn't post this to get views,or YouTube fame because if I was looking for fame it wouldn't be in a YouTube video on that topic,I posted it because I was hoping for some feedback from your experience so that I can learn from your mistakes,but I learned something a bit different,the reason my generation sits in front of the blue screen all day playing video games instead of getting outdoors and or hunting is because its a hell of a lot easier to play video games then hunt and get criticized by older more experienced hunters that I was trying to learn from. P.s I do appreciate and respect older and wiser hunters and am always willing to learn from em.

From: APauls
19-Nov-20
Sorry I couldn’t resist the irony for humour. In general this forum is super helpful to all new hunters looking for help. Not sure what the video said or how it came across

From: Swampbuck
19-Nov-20
Don’t aim for the shoulder that’s my advice. Now the old hamblaster shot, you’ll need to dig up TBM. He knows everything

19-Nov-20
I will give you a participation trophy if thats what your looking for.. This can be rough crowd no matter who or how old you are. This is a learning experience. Dont give a rats ars what people think, be happy, bowhunt, and enjoy the moment.

From: GF
19-Nov-20
Just spend some of that screen time with a video editor and cut it down to something manageable.

I’m all for un-scripted, but you need to know where you’re going and get there by means other than stream of consciousness.

Old story:

A Preacher gave a 45 minute sermon. Somebody asked him why on EARTH he had written a 45 minute sermon??

“Because I didn't have enough TIME to write a 20 minute sermon.”

19-Nov-20
GF I totally agree with you on that, and I know that as a rule of thumb but like you said it pretty dam hard to do. but I gota start somewhere and learn from my mistakes along the way. Thanks for the Input see now that's the stuff I like if I'm doing something Wrong instead of just telling me I'm wrong tell me how to fix it,like that a lot??

From: Duke
19-Nov-20
I found it interesting to watch and listen to coming from a youngster. The commentary was a bit much at times as the young man was probably baptized under the Outdoor Channel and the like. Nonetheless, a good crack at it, keep your chin up, and just be real in your next YouTube. Look forward to it.

From: Rupe
20-Nov-20
AGO, don’t let the negativity from a few morons discourage you. Shoulder shots, IMO, are 50/50 at best. Let the deer step forward and aim for the heart or lungs. The Bowsite is a great place. I’ve been around since the beginning. Just ignore people acting like fools. Don’t even respond. They’re just not worth it.

20-Nov-20
AGO What are the details on your set up. Looks like you got plenty of penetration. We all know the shoulder should be avoided. But it’s nice to know that if your a mere Mortal and do pull the occasional shot. That your set up will go through your quarry’s shoulder blade. It’s more about straight arrow flight, arrow weight and broadhead construction. Then, don’t fear the shoulder. But a sideways flying lightweight arrow setup is going to have issues. “Same as it’s always been”

20-Nov-20

Average guy outdoors's embedded Photo
Average guy outdoors's embedded Photo
I shoot 400 spine Easton axis 9.8 grain per inch.with a 50 grain insert and 125 grain g5 striker. And like 58 pounds draw weight on my bow,did the job I was asking it to do.

20-Nov-20
Congrats, nice buck.

From: drycreek
20-Nov-20
I used your same arrow for years AGO, minus the insert and only a 100 grain Striker, Wasp, Muzzy, ad infinitum, but I never hit the shoulder blade so I don’t know how my arrow would have performed. Not to say every shot was perfect, there was some luck and misses scattered among the deer and antelope I shot. All I can say is that it handled ribs fine. I wouldn’t purposely build an arrow to penetrate the scapula, because I wouldn’t purposely target that area. I’ve also passed up many opportunities because it didn’t represent my ideal shot. Good luck with your vids.

From: Ambush
20-Nov-20
Good to see young guys trying their best. None of us were likely “ at our peak” when we were AGO’s age. Think of all (hopefully) you’ve learned since you were his age.

AGO, I will offer this advice, your shaft is under spine’d and that’s not a maybe. Switch up to a 340 Axis. And if you’re real serious, buy the collars from Bill V. You’ll have as close to an indestructible arrow as you can get.

Good luck.

20-Nov-20
Ambush thanks for the advice I will do that with my arrow set up next year.

From: Scooby-doo
20-Nov-20
When younger and with good shoulders I used to shoot 75-90#s. I almost always shot a cut on contact broadhead. Shot 2413's for years with 100 grain head. I shoulder shot most everything and had excellent results. Today I shoot 55#s after 1 total shoulder replacement and 5 or 6 surgeries on my so called good shoulder. I shoot a 510 grain arrow with a scary sharp 175 grain 3 blade VPA broadhead. Actually been shooting that head for 12 years or so. I killed two bucks this year, both 3.5 and big bodied deer. I shot both through the shoulder above the leg bone but broke leg on off side on one and the other missed leg bone on off side and passed clean through. I did not hold there on either buck but that is where I hit. I was surprised at the penetration from my set-up. My point is that I believe a perfeectly tuned arrow and a scary sharp broadhead will get the job done even on shoulder shots as long as it is close and again perfectly tuned set up. I will try and post a pic from my phone. Shawn

From: Korey Wolfe
20-Nov-20
I agree with Ambush. Need to increase spine. You will see even better results.

From: Knife2sharp
20-Nov-20
Too bad the video is removed now, so I don't know what was said. But here's the deal, using the term 'shoulder hit', is just as vague as saying 'vital hit'. The shoulder consists of many parts, just like the vitals, so it all depends on what was hit, the angle and the penetration. Over the years you'll experience oddities, where after shooting a perfectly broadside deer and you think you made the perfect shot, then go to blood trail it later and it goes a lot further than you think and you have a chance to see the entry and exit and wonder, how did it do that? I never celebrate a successful hunt until I see the animal go down or recover it.

Also, the Bowsite is full of many individuals who've been around a while; and although it gets a lot of traffic, the majority of the posters tend to be the more vocal ones, bad, good and indifferent. You need a pretty thick skin to stick around and be an active contributor, but there is a lot of great information, which tends to be more about hunting then the techy side of archery. You'll also find, this is one of the only public forums that doesn't use a third party app that gets cluttered with the extra stuff and allow people to create a profile that keeps track of life on the site and their post count.

From: Ambush
20-Nov-20
AGO, if you decide to do another test, consider leaving the leg on the ribs.

And when you’re done throw them on the bbq :)

From: Swampbuck
20-Nov-20
I’m waiting on the droopy ear comment. Lol. Nice buck AGO, you’re blessed to be in a great hunting area. It looks like the set up have works well for you

20-Nov-20
Yes I am very happy with my set up,but no I will not be doing another test I decided doing things and expiring things in the field is much accurate.

From: BOWNUT
20-Nov-20
I'm thinking your arrow weight is around 460 grains. Is that true? There is no video for me to view.

From: Ambush
20-Nov-20
^^^. The “Get off my lawn” guys talked him into taking it down.

20-Nov-20
No nobody talked me into taking it down I took it down because Obviously I don't have enough of experience in the hunting world to be giving my opinion,and I understand why some folks didn't like it.i kinda came across like a know it all teenager(even though I didn't want to)and it pissed the older more experienced hunters off.wich I can't blame them I would have been as well so... lesson learned.

20-Nov-20
I think it’s great that you are digging into the details. And learning. Keep at it.

20-Nov-20

Average guy outdoors's Link
Here is my set up in Action in the field

From: BOWNUT
20-Nov-20
I have a good book that I could loan you that you might enjoy if your building your own arrows. PM me your address and I will send it to you. Nice shot on that doe and a good passthrough just what you want.

From: BC
20-Nov-20
Great buck AGO. Ignore the naysayers.

From: GF
20-Nov-20
Shawn -

Editing down to whats truly worth keeping IS damned hard to do; that’s why few people succeed as “youtubers”, and many of those who do succeed burn out because it takes them 70-80 hours/week to produce enough content to keep a following.

No surprise there; if you want to be a big hit, you’ve got to have some talent, you’ve got to work your tail off, and In order to achieve your 15 minutes of fame, you usually have to get very lucky.

It’s no different than when all of us old farts here were teenagers who wanted to make it big in professional sports or rock ‘n’ roll. Millions tried; you’ve heard of maybe a dozen of them.

From: JohnMC
20-Nov-20
Pick your role models carefully, be careful who you emulate. Most TV/YouTube hunter “personalities” come as know it all’s. One day you will realize most those guys are doing it for two reasons to stoke their ego and to pimp which ever products they can get paid the most for. If you enjoy filming your hunts awesome but don’t do because attempt to impress others.

From: Knife2sharp
20-Nov-20
I gotta ask, how did you zoom in on the shot at the doe, or was that an edit? Also, that was a pretty good video and great choice of music and also not having it play while deer are in the picture. That's one of my big pet peeves, especially the ones that only stop it just before the shot.

From: Matt
21-Nov-20
A friend guided archery blacktail hunts for multiple decades and never had a hunter shoot through the onside scapula. He did have some that shot through the offside however. There are physical dynamics at play that were referenced above that cause a scapula mounted to a anchored surface to act very differently that one in a live deer.

21-Nov-20
Yes that was Edit

From: Thunderhawk
21-Nov-20
I have seen shoulder hits that were taken from ground level,. no recovery, but was amazed at the blood that comes out .....I tracked that hit this year, with. a dog over 500 yards, only to watch the buck run up a hill, into property, we were denied to go in.

From: Grey Ghost
21-Nov-20
AGO,

I didn't get to watch your first shoulder shot video, but I did watch your doe kill video. It was actually very entertaining, and it was filmed, narrated, and edited better than most of the crap we see out there. The fact that you did it solo makes it even more impressive.

I'd say you have a future in the hunting video industry, if that's what you want to do. My only advice is to keep it real. Let your true personality show, and not a fake "on-camera" personality. Be humble, grateful, and sincere. There's nothing wrong with showing your excitement, but try to avoid cliches like "I smoked her" or "center-punched her". Show respect for the animal whose life you've just taken. The Meateater, Steven Rinella, is a good example of a guy who gets it, IMO.

Matt

From: LINK
21-Nov-20
I like that Iowa shots fired video. I have never heard of anyone sneaking around eating grass and brush to look like a 4 legged herbivore. Now that I think about it I think a guy from Alabama may have used that as a tactic. I can’t wait to try that in the woods.

21-Nov-20
I agree Grey Ghost, it was better than some of the Dbags on TV.

I actually can’t stand to watch 99% of deer hunts or turkey hunts on TV I don’t like incessant whispering either feeling the need to fill every second.

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