Probing the Cost of a Biden Gun Tax by Mitch Kokai November 19, 2020 at 5:33 am
Stephen Gutowski of the Washington Free Beacon explores the potential price tag of one of Joe Biden’s stated policy goals.
American gun owners could face tens of billions of dollars in new taxes to keep the guns they already own under Democrat Joe Biden’s gun ban and tax plan.
At least 20 million rifles and 150 million ammunition magazines would be caught up in the sales ban and registration scheme Biden touted on the campaign trail, according to a National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) report. The new taxes would cost Americans more than $34 billion, according to a Washington Free Beacon analysis.
NSSF told the Washington Free Beacon the sheer number of affected guns and magazines could pose a significant problem for Biden’s gun-control plans.
“I think if [Biden and his team] were smart, they would look at those numbers and get an idea of where America stands on gun ownership and gun rights,” NSSF spokesman Mark Oliva said.
Biden wants to ban new sales of AR-15 rifles and similar firearms as well as any ammunition magazine holding more than 10 rounds—sizes that come standard on most modern rifles and handguns. He would pay some owners to surrender the affected guns they legally own and force everyone else to register the guns under the National Firearms Act. The proposal would require owners to pay a $200 tax stamp for each item.
The report said the kinds of rifles Biden wants to ban made up nearly half of all rifles produced in 2018. Oliva said the group’s estimates may actually be undercounts. While NSSF used the latest Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives manufacturer reports, those only cover up to 2018, and Oliva said AR-15s have continued to grow in popularity since then.
“That manufacturer’s report comes out [with] an 18 to 24-month delay,” Oliva said. “That number is probably significantly higher now.”
My question to the never trump guys on this site: are you happy now?
Take good and long look at America, because you will not recognize it in 4 years.
Yes he can do it without the Legislature via executive order. Look at Obamacare, the only reason the Supreme court allowed it to stand was that it was a "tax". This will be the same.
Now that the left has successfully figured out how to steal elections, i doubt we will see another Republican President in our lifetimes.
Exactly. People standing in line to give away their freedoms. And it's a function of the liberal indoctrination that has been ongoing for years. There is no other way to put it. Kid makes his fingers look like a gun. Expelled. GUNS BAD! Kid eats pop tart into shape of a gun. Expelled. GUNS BAD! Kid mentions gun in school.... parents referred to CPS. GUNS BAD! Indoctrination, plain and simple. I really wish someone would try to argue differently. It amounts to people begging for their rights to be taken away. The sad part is, they have no idea what they're doing, or that once that right is gone, you cannot get it back.
I don't think the sheep elected America hating Commies as much as they voted out Trump. They didn't want Biden and the Left, they just wanted Trump's personality gone at any cost. If they really wanted the left agenda, we wouldn't have gained seats in the House and (hopefully) held the Senate.
Thats what happened to mine.
Amen Pat. I notice they avoided this thread like the plague too!!!
Interesting how hundreds of thousands of people apparently voted for Biden at the top of the ballot and a straight Republican ticket all the way down. Republicans won this election across the country from House to states to dogcatcher. Hmmm.
Stagetek, per the topic of this thread, you apparently don't agree with the Second Amendment, and that's messed up if you are allegedly a hunter. But with Repubs keeping the Senate and poised to take the House in '22, Biden's damage to the country will be minimal and mostly reversible after he is gone in '24.
The second amendment and your guns are such a small problem now that the elections in this country have been done away with.
Some can't believe that he beat Obama's and Hillary's vote counts by 20%. Were Obama and Hillary even popular with Democrats? It all makes sense to me. This wasn't the Joe Biden that lost by huge margins to Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis in past Presidential primary election attempts. It was clear to anyone that he was on a different level than the Joe Biden of the past.
If memory serves, I believe we had a Democrat President and Congress in 2008. I think the Supreme Court was considerably more liberal then too. I don’t remember the government coming to get my guns. Deep breath.
It’s the same ole NRA fear tactic drum beat every time there is an election. There are checks and balances in the constitution and they have never been more in favor of the right in our lifetimes.
Calm down...there are systems in place to vet votes and the election. If there was widespread fraud it will be brought to light...I mean Rudy and Sidney are on the job. If there is evidence then bring it in front of the court. So far that has not happened regardless of what Newmax, OAN, the American thinker, gateway pundit, or any of those FAKE NEWS websites.
Civil war...really? Some of you are actually ready to bear arms against some of your family, friends, neighbors? I mean actually look them in the eye and shoot them? Woods Walker goes to this every time. Unbelievable...
Pat- to answer your question...YES
Rupe- maybe some of us we’re waiting for the grieving process to be completed. Maybe some of the bowhunters who voted against Trump didn’t feel like sticking the finger in the eye of fellow bowhunters.
I promise all of you that should the new administration come for all of OUR guns, abolish private ownership of everything (socialism), and become a communist dictatorship in the next 4 years we will be fighting on the same side.
Again, deep breath.
The Democrats are smart enough to realize they cant do that. By doing this "tax", they outcome is the same - they take your guns away or grow Government on the backs of gun owners - win win. They can still say "We dont want to take your guns" this is just legislation designed for the safety of all Americans, wink wink. If you don't pay the tax per gun - per magazine (that would be in the thousands for some of us), then you are in instant felon. This idea has been floated out by democrats for a decade. They have tried implementing parts of it in some States. There is also insurance that will eventually need to be purchased by the gun owner as well.
Clearly - this will help curb gun violence and murders across the nation almost instantly. I bet we see the Chicago daily gun shootings go from 40 per day to 1 or 2 per month as a result.
Don’t you pay sales tax on guns and ammunition you bought?
KS. Please read from their own playbooks. They move the ball slowly. What was crazy Bernie talk 4 yrs ago is now part of their platform. 10 years from now what you think is unimaginable will be their platform. Like redistribution of 401s and all retirements into social Security, why should some have a better retirement than others. Read up on Marxists and Saul Alinsky They say if it takes 100 yrs they still win.
France, Spain, England all at different times ran the whole world.
We are following them into meekness.
As to your civil war question. Hell yes, without blinking an eye.
It amazes me that some people still try to say that is not true. Look at Cuomo and the safe act.
Our government IS becoming tyrannical. NY state government IS tyrannical.
Tyranny IS the reason for the 2nd.
Without transparent elections, we have lost the Republic. There is evidence of fraud, many times over. Most opinion networks (news is factual, not opinions), use lies and propaganda to sway/brainwash people. This doesn't fit their agenda, so they say their is no evidence. So the steeple believe it. Anyone ever hear of a guy named Hitler. This country is headed down that path. AOC wants to start amassing a list of Trump supporters to be dealt with? This is just the beginning. They have gotten away with so much, they feel they are untouchable and can do whatever they want!
Look up "the great reset" on YouTube.
These pandemic rules are a test to see how well we will listen to their anti constitutional laws!
I will do what it takes to keep the great Republic in the hands of the People.
Call me whatever you want, but the fact is my eyes are open and I can see for myself. Looks like most on here, can as well.
Government was overstepping its bounds then just like they are now. The perceived popularity of socialism was on the rise then, just like it is now.
Only a fool would think things could not escalate to a condition similar to April 12, 1861 at 4:30 in the morning. It is our duty to do everything we can to prevent something like that from happening because the body count would be in the millions. Americans are a very passionate people...
These are the types on my bookshelves
Frankly, that's the biggest thing I learned on this thread. Cool!
So, we can move forward as a nation. This is actually good. People are worried about a policy. Frankly, if the policy sucks, the SCOTUS ultimately will hear a case on it and come to a conclusion. The SCOTUS is basically the Federalist Society now. So... You guys can relax.
The civil war talk, to me, is scary as hell. Why? Because if anyone here truly believes that literally anything in the year 2020 in the United States of America is so bad that killing people is the right answer, frankly, you have been radicalized by your chosen media bubble and need to consider how to step back and assess your radicalization and it's potential impact. Because it's impact isn't good for you, or anyone else.
Pissed that your guy lost? Sure. I get that. But again, if you believe anything in 2020 America is so bad that killing people makes sense... Sorry, you are, absolutely, literally, wrong. And also have been radicalized. Dont hate the messenger. Again, if you think anything in 2020 America is worth killing folks, you are wrong.
Do I worry Biden's gun policies will have a huge negative impact on me and remove my ability to own guns? No. Then again, I live in MA, so by most standards Biden's plan would be looser than what I'm used to. For hunting or home defense, I'm good. Even with MA's "restrictive" gun laws.
So, IF (which is a BIG question), every single Biden proposal RE guns came to it's absolute exact conclusions, would that mean I'm unable to protect my home, or go hunting? No.
My immediate issues are the things they aren't shy about going for. The things they campaign on and are proud to push are bad enough.
If the democrats take it, its basically a tie with Kamala Harris as the tie breaker?
The dems in control of everything worries me. SCOTUS is then all that stands in their way.
Maybe I am wrong.
I don't believe there was enough fraud to toss this election, even though Trump only lost the Electoral College by 80,000 votes, according to the New York Times. What turned this election was a four year full-court press by the entire media/technology cabal to destroy Trump. It was a coordinated effort and it worked to turn low-information voters. Then the Dems did a great job of ballot seeding and harvesting, which brought votes from hundreds of thousands of soft-brained cretins and illegals who wouldnt have voted otherwise.
And even with all that, he barely lost, and Republicans won all up and down ballot.
Do you think it's worth killing any of the radical left "folks" that might want to burn or loot your property or do you just go for the leg?
This extreme left wing ridiculously politically correct western world we live in now makes one glad to be in the winter of their life.
I'm not concerned about any of this because God is and will always be on His throne.
I pray Biden does well for our country. Conspiracy theories are the work of satan.
Besides, the Dem's are going to save us all...Lol
Waiting for that Bible verse. And while you’re looking read the book of Esther and Haman’s conspiracy to kill the Jews.
Whether killing millions of Jews, one person in a robbery, or wishing the death of one person on the highway that just cut you off, God sees all sin equally, but will still welcome anyone in his kingdom that repents and puts faith in Jesus. That is the Good News,.... we all fall short, but are cleaned white as snow by Jesus on the cross, taking God's wrath for us. All you have to do is believe in your heart that this is true.
Now back to Biden, If he is successful uniting America, all are successful.
America has been sliding left for decades. I can't compromise if it means going farther. If they want to "unite" by coming back the right direction I am willing to compromise and work together. I dont need everything on my list and I'm willing to compromise with regards to how fast we steer back to the right. Thats not what they have in mind.
To the left, compromise means do what we want to do.
If anyone has evidence to the contrary, please present it. At least 50% of this country DOES NOT WANT liberal rule. Those of you who do should be happy, but I’m betting the sweet taste in your mouth will sour over the next four years. The amount of money the libs want to give away has to come from somewhere ! Guess what, it won’t be from “the rich” as they always promise. The middle class will still be bearing the burden as always, and the bastards that you saw rioting in the streets will be getting the paychecks.
"CHANGES TO THE COMMUNITY FORUM We have made the decision to remove the former 'community' forum, along with all previous discussions associated with it. This decision was not made lightly, but it was necessary in an attempt to position Bowsite for upcoming changes. In the coming weeks, we will be communicating those changes to you. We appreciate your understanding.
was alot longer than 'coming weeks'.
And then he proceeded to stick a meat cleaver through the middle of the country, resulting in Republican takeover of all of Congress, and the creation of Donald Trump. Same thing will happen this time...
Mankind...... is corrupt. What really bothers me is so many who were trusted to be watchdogs for such evil have willfully and blatantly ignored it. Many actually complicit in it. It's time to make sure those wither and die as all rotten fruit does. They've pizzed away their only real value.... integrity, trust. They have lost their only common public value in a fit of vanity and greed.
This is and has been a blatant attack on America and on hard working Americans. The legacy media is owned by huge corporations. A huge chunk of America work for these global corps, owned by them. At one time big corps, big tech, etc. were AMERICAN corps, but no more. They are now literally global corps and owe no allegiance to America as most find America and it's freedoms being mostly in their way. They don't care that China screws us over, nor has prison camps and implemented genocide with no regard for human rights nor environmental impacts. But they make cheaper stuff for global corps and make larger profits for them. So.... crickets. Those who COULD make the largest impact and investigate facts and engage in just a bit of honesty are already owned by those who benefit from the narrative. Literally pro Globalist and anti-American. America First is their biggest enemy.
I see leftist bristle when anti-American actions are pointed out, patriotism challenged. But you can't have it both ways, claim they are patriotic with words, but anti-American and pro Globalist in action. Freedoms, Rights, Constitution, Rule of Law, the foundation and essence of America.... waved away. America means nothing to them. We have seemingly just elected a man who has been bought and paid for by China, Ukraine, Russia and Lord knows who all else. We have the receipts actually.....millions and millions in literal pay to play quid pro quo deals over decades.....move along, nothing to see here.... such patriots....
They are documented and proven liars, especially of the last few years, wrong at every turn. And proven willing to cheat (if not for double standards they'd literally have none at all....) and now are OK with stealing if they get what they want. Media used to investigate things that didn't smell right. Now they do as their handlers tell them. Bury what smells. If nothing else we can thank Trump for one thing.... exposing and even giving it a name.... Fake News. It will be engraved on their tombstones....
Time to get some new trees in the ground. And thin out the rotten ones as they die by their own dishonesty. Some folks are OK with being lied to day after day, (for your own good of don'cha know...) many are not. This fight is just beginning.
Trump would never do this
Like almost ALL of Trump's appointees, and Trump himself.
"They've pizzed away their only real value.... integrity, trust."
Like all of the lies that come out of Trump's mouth. Or the fact that he is making extra millions on his properties based solely on his office.
"...owe no allegiance to America..."
As if if Tump doesn't have investment ALL over the world.
"...claim they are patriotic with words, but anti-American ... in action."
Pretty easy to be patriotic by standing for the National Anthem, but to answer the call when your nation asks, you suddenly develop bone spurs. And when asked about that reply something like, 'What, do you think I'm stupid? I'm not going to be drafted.'
"Freedoms, Rights, Constitution, Rule of Law, the foundation and essence of America..."
Like the right for EVERYONE to vote, and accepting the will of the people? There has NEVER been a bigger POS in the White House, NEVER.
"Some folks are OK with being lied to day after day..."
They're called Trump supporters.
I disagree. After they stack the court, they'll reverse the Heller decision and then they can ban whatever they damn well want, because IT ALREADY HAPPENED IN CHICAGO in the 1980's and is why we got the Heller judgement in the first place, and with a stacked court it'll be forever. One day you were a legal gun owner, and the next you were a felon. If these socialist bastids CAN do it, they WILL. They can't totally control us until the disarm us.
Well, I don't know. After all Biden named one of his sons Hunter. And Trump named one of his Baron. Maybe we should read something into that. ;-)
It's the only way short of dying any of us will ever get any peace in this country again..
Some folks are OK with being lied to day after day..."
They're called "anyone who votes for politicians, no matter what party".
You mean after they re-stack it?
Last time court stacking was attempted was in 1937. FDR was pushing it. It got big bipartisan resistance because Dems then realized if they tried it, it could come back to bite them hard someday.
Dems were a lot smarter then. See: "Harry Reid ends filibuster for judicial appointments..."
Wow, what absolute ignorance! Where have you been the last fifty years! It’s more like erosion than a landslide.
“Don’t confuse a liberal with facts”. Says the guy with a giant Q on his shirt.
'Ike' (Phone)'s Link
What’s your point? Since I don’t own a company then I shouldn’t or can’t have an opinion? Do you have a uterus?
I love it when democrats drop this one, since historically they are the WORST losers AND the WORST winners...such jackassery
Can you imagine if they didn’t have the rest of the country to bail out their failed policies.
If we tried an experiment and they all moved to several states. How long would it last. They would have no electricity, food, or other basic essentials. And with no way to protect themselves, the mobs would take what little the government allowed them to keep.
How long before they are eating their pets and zoo animals.
Venezuela was once one of the most prosperous nations
Still not convinced. Name one prosperous socialist nation. Not just getting by, driving a subcompact car living in a government approved shoe box sized house nation. But a truly free, prosperous nation.
Another minor little detail. In every one of those successful socialists countries, only the very rich oligarchs can afford to hunt.
Ask the Aussies, Brits, French, Cubans, Russians, Chinese, North Koreans. How many Semi Autos their govt allows them to own.
Do I think D's will increase the number on the SCOTUS? No.
FYI- I hear Walmart is having a black Friday special on backslappers...2 for 1. Its never to early to plan for next years camp.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having “people you get along with” in your camp. It’s that “you” just can’t get along..apparently by self admittance...with other people who may have different perspectives. I think you make the point beautifully Bake.
I truly believe most hard core liberals have an emotional disorder. The other low-information voters who vote Dem simply dont know any better because they believe what the mainstream media tells them. I am sitting in a room full of those folks right now.
I don’t understand low information voters either Lou. However, a misinformation voter can do as much or more damage (e.g. QAnon or Antifa) don’t you think?
Now rant on with all your FAKE NEWS!
I'm still trying to figure out why there are left leaners on hunting forums, shit stirrers I guess.
Anyhow, hope you all have a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving and luck afield if you're able to get out hunting.
I'm not making this up. It's all easily verified by independent, unbiased (as much as possible) studies.
Supernaut- agreed. If the person I was hunting with wanted to talk politics all the time...no thanks.
Bigdog said “just pay the stupid tax” and move on. Five ARS at $200 each, five mags for each AR at $200 each, plus reams of paperwork on each gun and each mag. That’s $6K for those of you who care. That’s three months worth of SS checks. Hard to “move on” from that, especially since I AM NOT THE FRICKIN PROBLEM. My ARs have only ever been pointed at paper, coyotes, and hogs, so it looks a lot like “guilty until proven innocent” from a government who wants to do lots more unconstitutional crap and needs us disarmed to do it. Don’t even try to tell me it will never be done, it has already been done to the Native Americans, the Japanese that were interred in camps during WW II, and the freed slaves after the Civil War. It was tried by the British but they weren’t successful only because they met armed resistance.
Would you pay a speeding ticket today because the government thought you might speed next week ? Would you pay an exorbitant tax on your car after it was paid for just because other people have accidents ? Would you pay a tax on your house because it might catch fire and burn the neighborhood ? (and I’m not talking insurance here, because thatfor your benefit). Y’all need to take your blinders off and look around. The liberals want you to just follow the “leader” no matter where he goes, and right now, and in the future, the libs are destroying this country and dismantling the constitution, with your help evidently.
2 things that turned me off on Trump that are overwhelming in case. Not coming clean with the American people on the severity of the virus, citing the possible mass panic. Excuse me, I'd rather judge it based on true facts. He assumed that Americans, could not make judgement on their own.
And during the racially charged violence and riots around the country, there were peaceful protests outside the White House (after racial issues), which he used military force, to disperse them with tear gas and flash bang munitions, not because of any looming threat, but because he wanted to do a photo op in front of a church with a bible. He doesn't even attend a service on Sundays. The last one is a clear violation of our constitution.
Killing things? Sometimes. I don’t always fill a tag but sometimes. Elk hunting...I don’t even want to talk about it. Strikeout.
However, I do post on threads sometimes. Even start them on occasion. I especially enjoy the threads withba kids first deer and a proud dad posting. That’s what it’s all about.
Now I’m sure you will ask Trax the same questions. However, I know he is a hunter and I wished him luck on his hunts this year. He and I don’t have anything in common politically but he has to be an interesting person to hunt with. Yeah, I’d hunt with him and would love to hear his perspective on many subjects. I might learn something or at least understand him better.
But I’m no troll. I’m one of you and there are many more like me. Narrow the coalition down if you want but hunters divided isn’t recommended. Debate and different perspectives...they are welcome IMO.
Agree that you are not a troll, but I am sorry that I don't consider you one of us. You might be a great guy, you might be an a-hole, I don't know and will never know. I don't like a lot of what Trump said or his personality for that matter. But when it came down to it he did what he said he would and his policies and what he did made a real difference. I, for one, am in a better position than I was 4 years ago due to some of these changes. I doubt I will be able to say the same 4 years from now.
With Trump one could go on with such PROVEN lies like the "court stacking" one above all day. From "he said he supports White Supremacists!" when they know with his very next statement.... nearly in the same breath if not maliciously edited.... he said there was no place in society for White Supremacists. More Fake news. Russians. More Fake News. Ukraine. More Fake News. Vaccine this year is a lie. More Fake news. The list is nearly endless. And brazenly dishonest.
And when caught in the lie, after lie, after intentional lie..... no retraction, no apologies.... just on to the next lie. Not just wrong. Bad human beings. Some evil.
But a person is good with that.... honestly.... if a person is good with such things and feel it's justified somehow, I'd really rather not have them in my camp. Hard to say what BS stories and lies they'd make up about me. For the good of the hunting world and sportsmen everywhere of course....
WRT guns, many STATES require gun registration. Hawaii being one of them. Here in the Peoples Republic you have to apply for a Permit to Acquire at the police dept. Good for one year, but you can buy multiple long guns with it. After the purchase you need to take the firearm back to the police (in a locked case) and register it.
Due to the Chinese Sniffles we now need to make an APPOINTMENT to go in and fill out the Permit to Acquire paperwork. Actually it's worse, a couple years ago they started requiring fingerprinting, birth cert and literally a mug shot to start a file on all gun owners. But I did that last year and they have my file. Don't have to go through that this year.
I called and made my appointment back in Oct. At that time, next available appointment (which I took) is January 6th. Yes, over two months wait. Lord knows what it is now......
Guess it's good to see at least one industry besides some social engineering media/tech companies doing well...... Biden may just wind up selling more guns than Obama, BLM and ANTIFA put together....
And just writing this and having second thoughts..... if you're OK with ANOTHER gun tax (while being clueless as to the real purpose of the first...) and good with banning guns painted black..... no. I don't want you in my camp. Nor do I want to be any part of yours.
Then while at my clubs gun range, we got people coming in with camo fatigues, body armor, magazine holsters all over their body. I call them swat team wannabe's. You wanna join the military,... do it. Don't run around looking like a knucklehead. Firearm owners should be calm members of a peaceful society.
Then move to a place that doesn't have a 2nd amendment. It'll work for all of us that way.
The amount and availability of ammunition someone wants for hunting or any other purpose is totally irrelevant. It's a personal choice and should never be a legal (much less an illegal) regulation or law nor any cause to deny someone of their Constitutional rights. Honestly... it's not even the governments business much less anyone else.
Really? "He has too much ammo..... he shouldn't own a gun....."
On top of that, we have to have a permit to buy handguns, long guns and ammo. A carry permit ($70 - 5 years) allows purchase of everything legal. Long gun permit ($35?) is for long guns and ammo. Ammo permit ($35?) is for ammo only. It's all about the taxes associated with it. Now, my wife can't fill my stocking with my favorite ammo, because she doesn't have a permit yet. Our only choice in the AR 15 type of firearm are called "Others". Not long guns and not pistols. Legal loopholes, but still a lot of restrictions on those too. Did you think Uncle Joe was kidding when he said just get a double barrel shotgun? That's what you could be limited too if we lose the senate.
May need to get a little more serious with it !
"A bill currently in three U.S. Congressional subcommittees would increase firearm sales tax to 30% and ammunition tax to 50%. The bill also would, among other things, require all future and current gun owners to obtain a federal license and raise the age from 18 to 21 for purchasing a firearm.
Titled HR 5717 and commonly referred to as the "Gun Violence Prevention and Community Safety Act of 2020," the bill is currently under consideration in three House committees including the House Ways and Means Committee, House Energy and Commerce Committee and the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security.
The bill is some 250 pages long and includes multiple provisions many gun rights advocates find objectionable, including a ban on assault rifles and large capacity magazines and other large ammunition capacity devices."
I'll answer for you. It's about controlling the populace. They know certain guns are a great equalizer.... at least to regular "law enforcement", and even as far as limited military action. The people who want COMPLETE CONTROL over our lives, are the ones pushing for these laws..... which no matter how you want to dice it, are unconstitutional. The mind blowing part, at least to myself, is that there are actual citizens (although not nearly as many as "mail in ballots " would have you believe), that beg to be stripped of their second amendment rights. Imagine that. "I currently have no use for that right, and cannot foresee ever needing it..... yeah, take that right away from a certain demographic, that I currently could not possibly care less about. " The thing is.... once that right is gone, there is no standing up for the other rights, some that possibly even a Democrat or two holds dear, that will MOST ASSUREDLY be next on the chopping block. Be careful what you wish for.
"Bottom line is this we sportsman are SCREWED."
I've done all the hunting I wanted, and that was quite a bit, over the the last 35+ years, and the only firearm I used was an O/U shotgun. Even before that my rifle was a bolt action. And most states have magazine restrictions for big game hunting, anyway. NO ONE is proposing any restrictions on any gun "needed" for sportsmen. Besides, there are probably as many Democrats as Republicans that hunt. So let's not make up arguments that have no merit.
The Second Amendment is a separate issue, and I wish the NRA understood that. While there is possibly some validity to the "this will lead to more restrictions" argument, we are long past the point of an armed overthrow of the US government. When that was written, government troops and citizens had access to the same types of weapons. In fact, most of the Continental Army had to provide their own guns. That day is long gone. While I think it would be pretty cool, I doubt I would be allowed my own fully armed F16. Hey, let's start demanding that. ;-). Our greatest threat is from someone who refuses to transition power after loosing an election, like EVERY OTHER President has done, until now. He did try to fulfill one promise; a rigged election. But he failed there, too.
That leaves self defense, and that is a real concern. But again, it's not mainstream Dems trying to take that away, just like most Republicans are not skin heads. It's been asked 'how many law abiding citizens have misused high capacity magazines?' Well, one could also ask how many have "needed" a high capacity magazine for self defense? In my law enforcement training, we were told that most defensive gunfights involved 3 shots and lasted for about 3 seconds.
As for the Supreme Court; they are supposed to be non-partisan! But it appears that ship has also sailed. Maybe it's time we just admit it and make the bench an even number; either 8 or 10, and let each side fill half the seats with no way to break a tie. Then they would have to come to some consensus. In any case, I would be more comfortable with someone leaning more toward actual individual rights, than religious dogma.
This election wasn't even about conservatives or liberals - it was about a corrupt, self serving, incompetent President who somehow re-made the Republican Party into something divisive; full of lies, and conspiracy theories with no evidence of such. Trump didn't invent the TERM 'fake news', he invented fake news, or at least expanded on it from sources like the Fake Or Xenophobic News Network. He wasn't even a Republican until 2012 when he started making plans for running for President, and had to decide which side he could more easily con. Like it or not, we exist in a world community, with world wide problems. Withdrawing from that is NOT in our long term best interest. It's not even in our short term best interest. We likely would still have a Republican President if it weren't for Trump. When you have a cancer, sometimes you have to cut deeply to get clean margins in order to heal.
Besides, Biden is going to be too busy trying to re-establish a responsible government, getting incompetent, corrupt, Trump cronies out of office, rebuilding necessary agencies, and re-establishing responsible international relations, to worry much about issues like gun control.
I've even given up on explaining the ammo/firearms shortages to people... especially ammo. I can only outline the combination of factors that have led us to where we currently are so many times. Now all I can say is, "Nope, don't have any, nope none on the horizon, and nope, no list of people to call when it comes in."
The last one cracks me up..... sometimes I just tell them "no list", sometimes I go the extra step, and tell them they'd be # 743 on the list by now, so why would anyone bother?"
That is...unless you actually believe what you wrote. If you do, GET HELP! QUICK!
Hey Ziek...if my memory serves me correctly. There have been two times a president has not conceded. Trump will make it the third.
Sounds like you are an LEO? And if you still are...please do not knock on someone’s door requesting them to turn in their AR. That’s when the first shots will be fired.
Milhouse. I NEVER said I don't own any "high capacity" firearms. I said, they're not necessary, and mostly illegal already, for hunting, and of limited use for self defense. It helps in a written discussion if both sides can read. If you want to make an argument for other uses, then make THAT argument.
"I should not have to justify, to anyone, why I own anything I *may* own. Completely legal to buy or own..."
Milhouse, when the Constitution was written it was legal to buy a cannon. In the 1800's you could buy a Gatling Gun, or any amount of dynamite you wanted, or a human being for that matter. Even more recently, you could purchase a machine gun without a special permit. We "lost" all those privileges not because law abiding citizens abused them, but because too many criminals made use of them. My point is that what was once legal, or currently legal, may not be legal forever. I'm not even arguing that that's right or fair, just that it's reality. The fact is, more and more people, are afraid of guns, at least in OTHER peoples' hands. If we don't want to loose more rights/privileges, we better come up with arguments that aren't already irrelevant, or overly simplistic.
Thunderhawk, I don't disagree. My idea of a perfect government, is one where anyone can do whatever they want, as long as they don't interfere with other's right to do likewise. We should only need one law, 'If it's not yours, leave it the f*** alone.' But obviously, at least to most educated people, life is just not that simple. And in the modern world, it's much easier to get what YOU want by convincing arguments, than by force, or just by calling someone you don't agree with a "douche" like Trump would do.
Well, not you, but Jaquomo, he's in.
I think this summer was a prime Example of why people should own guns. All these people who were rioting and looting. Guess what insurance companies don’t cover that. So if you want to keep your livelihood you might have to defend yourself.
I bow hunt and hardly ever use a gun. But that doesn’t mean I’m ok with crazy gun laws. It’s all or nothing in my book. You either a pro 2nd amendment or your not. But if your a hunter you should be pro 2a.
It’s The same as a guy who is an avid big game hunter for ungulates..but is against mtn lion hunting or something.
Thankfully I don’t live in the city. And hopefully never have to deal with people rioting or trying To loot my house. But you can bet your ass that if people Show up at my house and want to harm my family I will die fighting, not on my knees. Sure you don’t need a big capacity mag. That’s all fine and dandy but when it comes to protecting my family Id rather have more bullets than less and wish I had more.
True, but they didn't make unsubstantiated claims of election fraud.
"It's still legal to buy a cannon, BTW."
OK. But you can't buy a modern day cannon equivalent.
"...unlike any president in the modern era didn’t bow to his own Party or take orders from a cabal."
You make my point for me. In other words he acted like a dictator and you actually believe in these conspiracy theories.
Jaq, lots of crap gets introduced that never sees the light of day. At least one source gives this a 4% chance of being passed. It's kind of early in the process to panic.
And again Ziek shows how educated he is. Ziek, do you actually read? And I’m referring to actual historical writings. Not articles from liberal jiberesh spin machines.
I hope you are not LEO because if you are and you know as much other law as you know gun law the public is truly in peril from having you on the street
A person can but a 105 Howitzer if they wish as well as n antique cannon. Gatling guns are good to go, they operate with a crank, looked at one that was for sale last week, RPG gun part you can buy but ammo takes a permit, I have a friend that owns a Sherman tank, ammo takes a permit but not the tank. Explosives yep but takes permits including TNT but that also takes a special container to transport it
Comrade Ziek, do your homework for America, not for whatever ....stan you are from
The peanut farmer flipped on that.....
"Reversing a view the GOP cites often, Jimmy Carter embraces vote-by-mail
David Hawkings May 7
Jimmy Carter has become the first former president to publicly support making mail-in voting a nationwide option this year."
I don't want this guy involved in anything related to what I can or can't legally own. Of course individuals could own cannons and still can. Even modern versions with the right paperwork. Most of our naval force was comprised of privately owned gun ships. Which were actually the most powerful weapons on earth at the time. Should we be allowed to own a fully armed f-16? I'll take that situation happily before not being able to own weapons common among infantry which was the intent of clarifying the restrictions on Government when writing the 2A.
The less Democrats campaign, explain policy positions, answer questions or leave their house, the better they do. In 2024 they are planning on not even announcing their candidate until the day before ballots have to be printed.
Without the ability to exercise them, rights mean nothing. WRT help from LEO? In many of those rioting (lets call it what it is) cases they are told by YOUR OWN government officials to stand down and take no action to protect you against them ......as the dems were actually TRYING to burn down America to hurt Trumps re-election chances and advance leftist control..... 'course when they were showing up at Mayors and Governors homes, then the police came out in force. And we swallow that swill they shovel while they dine in French restaurants in wine vineyards and enjoy designer ice cream in million dollar kitchens, hair salons in lockdowns they ordered on everyone else but them..... mind boggling how blind we have become, reliant on scoundrels to spoon feed us "the truth". Time to remove the blinders as well as those who put them on you.... these days the truth and facts must be sought. It's not hard, but does take a bit of personal time and effort to get them from more than one side.
Again, without the ability to exorcise them, rights mean nothing. Which bring up the fact it's not just the 2nd under attack. Several powerful leftists, including our moron HI Senator are publicly calling for restricting the 1st. Hate speech laws (one sided of course) that can put you in jail for offending the wrong person. Making it illegal to state an opinion online or at least requiring it's removal and censorship. Canada and Europe have fined and jailed even comedians using hate speech laws. For triggering someone who was simply offended. Not threatening violence. It's perfectly fine to threaten violence if it's done by the select person against anyone deemed by the mob unworthy of protection.
WORDS are now weapons and literal violence against another person. In fact even "silence is violence", haven't you heard? Burning down cities and physical assault in "mostly peaceful protest" however is just expressing a political opinion, it's just an idea. That is what these people believe is the level of intelligence in America, they expect you to swallow and believe anything they tell you, including what is right and what is wrong. A good many do already, that's clear.
Censorship already going on with tech and social engineering media. "I'll have to get back to you on that Senator..." and "we have made some mistakes and are working on that" when they have not fixed the mistakes they actually admit to. New York Post article on Hunter's laptop was shutdown and they lost their Twitter account....their fix? We'll let them have their account back if they delete the article post. A truthful and factual newspaper story from one of the oldest existing newspapers in America. Let that sink in.
Pull the 230 protections on these people for blatant knowing disregard of them, literally warning after warning from Congress. And let the wolves have at them. Leave the protections on for those actually are platforms, not censoring due to a view and discussing/debating the issues. Parlor is one, there are a few others. Blow up what are essentially monopolies like Google.... as has been done with others such as the phone company monopolies in the past. Actually a fairly apt comparison as the phone technology exploded on society in a similar manner.
Companies have a right to run their business as they see fit. Right up until they begin to violate your rights and those of others to fairly compete. They have no rights to special protections when they violate the agreements and societal contracts that afford those protections.
The leftists see the Constitutional rights of the common man as a threat to their power, how they control that man. This needs to be factored in when taking up debate of every single legal issue. They don't care about your rights.... or the rule of law for that matter. Only their power over you.
Facebook, Twitter, Bowsite...private companies so they can do what they want. Being a right wing nut isn’t a protected class. Don’t like it don’t click.
It also amazes me that these same people say any one who sees this as a conspiracy theorists. To put that blunt, arrogance and pride comes before any fall. And, you guys sure have that covered.
The federal government will never take our second amendment. But, what they will do is tax their way into the fight. When there is no desire or ability to defeat their push, they will change that right to one that suits their agenda. And, anyone who says there is no agenda behind it is too damn stupid to even consider in this discussion. The drive to do this is coming from some where. And, it isn’t the patriotic American either. Proof the slippery slope analogy is correct.
Here’s the beautiful thing about America as intended. Freedom. The right to protect it. And, the ability to not be led sheep. When that is gone, and it will be in time, all else is just lost.
I love my family and friends. I want them to have the same rights as I. And, I want them to experience freedom in its purest form. Not what a paid politician thinks it means. If that requires blood shed to those that oppose, sobeit. They should have minded their own business and not infringed on American values.
Anything as complex yet so simple as this republics documentation requires constant guard to keep weak minded liberals from tainting it with their peace and love bullshit. It’s a fallacy. A lie in the truest sense. They aren’t happy with live and let live. Unless you adopt their sick ideas of it. So, they will assure you do it their way. Which means America doesn’t exist anymore.
I didn’t loose my guns in a boating accident. So, don’t come to my house unless you feel the same. Don’t threaten me with a tax that I must pay for my freedoms. And, stop the BS about standing guard over America. If you don’t see it as a black and white issue, you are the problem.
Life’s too hard to complicate it with degrees of anything but black and white concerning the future of America. And, I ain’t going to apologize for that thought either.
I personally enjoyed the CF along with the rest of Bowsite. Disappointed to see it go away. It made this site interesting and different from all other hunting sites. It's a good idea allowing Hunters to talk about current events that matter to them.
I sure don’t care what it said on social media. I am not on it. But the censorship doesn’t help in the free speech department.
The next and most insidious is the school systems. It’s a long term game and the game is in the 8th inning.
Might be a bench clearing brawl.
It's easy to say don't look at Facebook or Twitter for the truth, but shouldn't the public be assured of being able to find it somewhere?
After referencing the Bill of Rights, he makes the above statement. Maybe he only reads the parts he likes, or interprets it the way that suits his arguments. Actually there are several less than "black and white " words in there.
"UNREASONABLE search and seizure". Evidently, Reasonable search and seizure IS allowed. Legal definition of reasonable: "Just, rational, appropriate, ordinary, or usual in the circumstances. It may refer to care, cause, compensation, doubt (in a criminal trial), and a host of other actions or activities." Doesn't sound too 'black and white' to me.
"Due Process of Law". Which obviously necessitates that laws are appropriate, and elsewhere, what bodies are allowed to make laws. Nowhere does it give individuals the right to make their own laws, or just abide by the ones they see fit. That's called anarchy. It's true that shit runs downhill. Even if you think you have the right to shit on your own land, you will soon find that your downhill neighbor doesn't want to put up with your shit. There is no such thing as "freedom in its purest form."
"Cruel or Unusual Punishment". Seems to leave a lot to interpretation.
And to be clear, I NEVER said I want any changes to the Second Amendment, but I am willing to discuss some responsibilities related to it. We have a system of government with laws, and ways to change those laws. I want to get back to that system, and it REQUIRES solid arguments to get what you want. or at least most of what you want. That system was NEVER intended to be a winner take all proposition based on the Presidential election. Many of you, I know, were happy with that type of system after 2016, but not so much now it seems. And that's exactly why it doesn't work.
If you were unhappy with the Democratic Party, AND the Republican Party in 2016, then Trump should have run for his own party, like TR did with the Bull Moose Party. Maybe he could have called it the Brown Nose Party, to accurately reflect what was required for inclusion. Of course, then he would NEVER have been elected in the first place.
"The next and most insidious is the school systems."...
"Might be a bench clearing brawl.
Well that's the way it's done in a dictatorship. Of course, another way would be for hard line, right wing, conservatives, to get an education in equal numbers to liberals. But then, of course, they wouldn't be ignorant enough to propose/threaten violence as a solution to their grievances.
Ziek, have you seriously been under a rock the past several months?!?! Who is doing what you just described??
There were others similar that existed before Facebook and Twitter, etc.... that faded away. There are other upstarts now who can fill their void too. Those who are open platform, play by the rules and treat all views and voices equally will enjoy the legal protection afforded and hopefully flourish as free speech platforms. As 230 was intended. Those who don't best lawyer up......
Google OTOH...... is separate and unique problem. They have become one of if not the most powerful company on earth and pretty much a monolithic monopoly. They are indeed a different animal. They even own a few of those mentioned above, and becoming similar to the monopolies large utility companies held that have been broken up over the years. Massive technical advancements often wind up that way. For healthy completion to be viable at times they are broken up. In most cases the country was better for it. And it's not like those who built and owned those monopolies were made destitute and penniless, they still came out the other end as some of the richest people in the world.
If I wanted to go off grid with electric, heating, food, etc it is an available and viable option for me or anyone who wanted to do so, many ways to do it. I cannot however develop my own internet system. People have tested this and tried to function online Google free. They couldn't do it. People who think Google is mostly just a search engine are way behind the curve. They are intertwined in literally everything. And control most of what they are intertwined in.
And the moron ninny’s social pages would explode with garbage like “ well at least Biden doesn’t want to steal orphans toys and sell them to fund anti abortionists”. Then they’d all cackle like chickens in agreement and retweet the “News” for months.
And Google would nod, shrug and say, “ well it’s the free expression of opinion”.
I agree. In that sense, is the Bowsite forums a publisher or a platform? Threads and posts routinely get censored, here, with a decisively right-leaning hand, especially when the Community Forum still existed. Can I assume you'd prefer the Bowsite become a publisher, instead?
As for taxing firearms, they can only tax that which they know you own. The last I checked, it is illegal for the feds or states to keep a gun database or registry. So, any gun tax would have to be on a voluntary basis. I think they've tried implementing mandatory gun registration in a few cities in Colorado, and they were largely ignored by both gun owners and law enforcement. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a single conviction for possessing a non-registered gun in those cities. I think some of you are doing a lot of hand-wringing over nothing.
WV Mountaineer - "If that requires blood shed to those that oppose, sobeit."
And it's widely agreed that the Second Amendment isn't about hunting, or even self defense, it's about the prospect of over-throwing a corrupt government, which is the implied threat. Tell me how that is relevant without the military's assistance, or with it, how it would be necessary. This is an academic argument, but is also relevant. Amendments to the Constitution continue to evolve and change, and we need relevant arguments. Also, the order of these amendments has NO value on their importance. The third is about quartering troops, and has a statement about unless authorized in time of war, so it has a built in clause to nullify it. "No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." Is that still of such primary importance to be 3rd?
Womens suffrage is way down at 19, and seems WAY more important than the third. At least my wife would think so. ;-)
Prohibition was the 18th and it was repealed by the 21st.
My point is, NONE of these are as sacrosanct as we might think or desire. They have to be defended, as they CAN be amended, or even repealed. In fact, that is what the founding fathers intended. But they have to be defended by debate and convincing arguments, no matter which party is in office. Republicans would like you to believe that EVERY Democrat, or anyone that didn't vote for Trump, is out to take your guns. That is just not true.
Now that Trump is out, hopefully the Republican Party can figure out how to become more relevant to more people, or we ARE in trouble.
BS! I agree not EVERY Democrat, but the DEMOCRAT PARTY as it stands today is DAMN sure out to do that. They SAID it, and they have DEMONSTRATED it!!! In Chicago (a DEMOCRAT run hell hole for the past half century) they DID take handguns from law abiding citizens. No grandfather clause, no exceptions (unless you were an elected official in Chicago). One day you were a legal handgun owner, and the next you were a felon.
Go peddle your BS to more gullible saps. I ain't buying it. I've lived it.
FWIW, my statement applies to people equally. No prejudice in nationality or race. If you choose to debate our Bill of Rights, I see you as the enemy. As should every American. Because the evolving door to our Amendments is the problem.
If you don’t like that or me, I’m fine with it. I’m not changing my mind anytime soon.
I find it hilarious a man will hang on to those words as a punchline. When he doesn’t possess enough back bone or common sense to see his view is responsible for killing over 60 million Americans in the last 40 years. Genocide committed in the name of culture.
How so? I didn't say, nor do I think, we shouldn't be allowed firearms for self defense, and have liberal laws about what we use to defend ourselves, and/or properties, and for hunting. But that's NOT how the 2nd has been interpreted, because of the complete wording. I wish it did specifically include self defense, and I implied that it COULD say that, if amended. Amending it is always looked at like it can only be made worse. If its intent is not as clearly inclusive as written, it could be made more clear and relevant.
I don't know what I'm saying that draws such ire. I want the same end result as most on here. I just don't think the path is through a narcissistic, arrogant, science-denying, bullying, lying, isolationist, opportunist, like Trump, and what's left of the Republican Party that gives him such free rein. I think that if almost anyone else had won the nomination in 2016, they would have had a much greater chance of re-election. If Trumpism is the future of the Republican Party, I fear there won't be one.
Ziek said “the system was NEVER meant to be a winner take all” but if you look at Biden’s website and see his proposed new gun laws you will see that it is exactly that. Beto is supposed to be his “gun czar” and he promised “Hell yes, we’re going to take your ARs, your AKs” Sounds like winner take all to me.
I honestly don't think any of the other candidates would have had the chance to try because they wouldn't have beat Hillary to get elected at all.
Everyone on here is thankful for our military personnel and vets. Yet, you elevated a draft dodger to Commander In Chief. He spouted on about patriotism, and respecting the flag etc. after there was a respectful protest at a football game, but where was he when the country called him to duty? Inventing bone spurs.
Most on here are Christians. Yet, you support someone who thinks the Bible is an appropriate PR prop (and apparently from what I see, he thinks that's all it's good for), at a manufactured event that had no religious purpose.
After 9/11, when almost 3,000 people died, most on here were pissed enough to go to the ends of the earth to bring the terrorists to justice. Now, after more than a quarter of a million people are dead from a virus, you still support a President that did little more than lie to us about how it would be gone real soon. His lack of action not only is responsible for at least some of those deaths (likely way more than lost on 9/11), but all the other suffering from uncountable medical procedures that had been, and still are being, cancelled because of over-stressed medical resources. Not to mention the damage to the economy and financial suffering of millions of people. Much of that could also have been avoided with uniform and fairly simple social distancing measures.
He makes millions of dollars selling rooms at his resorts and properties to accommodate his entourage at tax payer expense, and to foreign dignitaries who are all too eager to please him. No wonder he goes to Florida at least once a week.
If a Democrat did half of this shit, you would have crucified him.
Milhouse, that's the biggest problem with the Republican Party. In the US, EVERYONE should be able to live their own lives. NOT just those that think like you.
Be whover you want. Listen implictily to your government overlords. You obviously believe they know what's best for you and your family. They're looking for sheep like you.
OMG if I was drinking milk it would shot out of my nose did a lefty lib...Zork alludes to the left being inclusive and to each his own..they are militantly on a ramage to make everyone think and do just what they say or they will destroy your lives...I would say even you know that but you always seem to find a new intelectual low
Every single Amendment has limitations. Over time interpretation of those amendments changes with every SCOTUS case. Same goes for the 2nd Amendment.
I own many guns and I understand the 2nd amendment is there to protect citizens against government gone wrong. I support the 2nd Amendment but I am open to ideas on how to stop mass shootings. If it can prevent some idiot from shooting up schools then I’ll listen.
Dry creek- the comparison is not exact but it’s not apples and oranges. Someone above was talking about ending 230 protections for social media companies so they can be sued out of existence. That’s what I was responding to. Gun manufacturers and shops can do some things to keep their products from being used unlawfully. They already do...background checks. If you disagree I understand.
By the way, I don’t think armed citizens are a match for our military/government like they were in 1776. I don’t accept the premise.
These new laws are meant for nothing other than to disarm the people, to keep the powers that be, protected when they take ALL of our liberties. Nothing less. If you believe otherwise, then you are a fool. They scream for tolerance, but THEY are the most intolerant. Their way or no way. They will try to force it down our throats by any measures they see fit, lies, fraud, stealing force, any of it. Look at the red flag laws. They are already confiscating guns for no just cause, other than somebody felt like something may happen.
If "we the people" have no guns, then they can do what ever they want with no fear of reprisal. It will only be a matter of time before they take liberties from every citizen, left, right or center!
Trump is about America! He is not perfect, but look at his policies and accomplishments. Regardless of who he is as a person, it is quite impressive. All while being attacked at every turn. I don't believe that any other president in the last 50 years could have withstood the scrutiny he has endured, and come out unscathed. And the left is so messed up, their front runner is the guy that DID the crime that Trump wanted investigated, that they tried to impeach him for wanting investigated. C'mon man! How asinine is that?
For the ones that say don't worry, that is not what they want, not what they plan. Get your heads out of your arces, they have come right out and said it.
For the others... let me know where the meeting will be, I am with you!
I’ve yet to meet any liberal with an ounce of conviction to the reality of the policies they vote for. They talk a good game. However, I get the impression It’s a “I don’t agree with them on that but, I support them because they don’t really mean what they say about it.”. Beyond careless.
People talk about love of fellow country men, yet support those that murder defenseless unborn country men. It’s as absurd as it sounds. Yet, rationalized somehow. Blows my simple mind.
Looks like we the people gave him some different orders on November 3rd?
And before you start ripping me, I voted straight R including Trump. But the majority did not.
Pretty relevant to 74 million supporters..
Even now that he's been defeated, Trump is showing his true colors. He is endangering the security of the country by not including the President Elect in policy decision, and making as smooth a transition as possible, as every previous administration has done. As always, it's all about him personally, not the country. In every business when someone is fired, he's escorted out the door immediately, so they can't try to sabotage the business out of spite. Unfortunately, that can't be done when the President is fired, for obvious reasons, and before this, it was never even contemplated that it might be a problem.
That observation has been used to claim voter fraud. The truth is you had guys out there like Mark Cuban on national TV saying to vote Biden for president, all Rs for Congress.
IMO, newfi is correct about centrist government. The people spoke, they disavowed both Trump and socialism at the same time.
Trax, voter fraud happens every election. Absent proof it occurred at a level enough to throw the final results in this last election, the inauguration will be for Biden.
"...how much damage can the America hating leftist cabal..."
And there we have the new Republican Party. Lies, fear mongering, and conspiracy theories.
I don’t. You had 30 million illegals voting this time.
I kid, I kid!
Both bases were fired up causing a record turnout. Trump fired up both sides.
I notice Whitey thinks women should not have rights and NOBODY flames him for it. What a tool.
Now, as most of you know, Illinois is a Democrat run disaster (like most ALL Democrat run cities/states). They currently have bills in the state house that would decrease the validity time of the FOID card by 50%, and INCREASE the fee by 100%!!!
Now, on top of all of this, the Illinois state law states that the State Police (who actually issues the FOID card), are legally required to issue/deny a FOID card in 30 days. Right now, the wait time to receive a FOID card is 116 days...almost 300%!!!
An article in Bearing Arms (www.bearingarms.com), makes an all too true observation about this....
"For the moment, gun owners can’t really expect any relief in court or in the Democrat-controlled legislature, which hasn’t expressed much interest in dealing with the lengthy delays caused by high demand on the part of gun owners and understaffing on the part of the Illinois State Police. The ISP says its hiring new employees to work through the growing backlog, but there’s a minimum six-month training period before the new hires can actually being processing any applications.
Illinois’s lengthy delays are a perfect example of why it’s such a bad idea to require a permission slip from the government before you can exercise a constitutional right. Even as violent crime is soaring in cities like Chicago and criminals are acting with impunity, law-abiding residents who want a gun for self-defense are forced to twiddle their thumbs while the bureaucracy plods along at a snail’s pace.
We already know that violent criminals don’t care about FOID cards and concealed carry licenses, but the state’s inability to process applications in a timely manner is likely leading some otherwise law-abiding citizens to get or carry a gun while their applications are in limbo. In other words, the state is creating criminals with their lengthy delays. It’s an untenable position, but unfortunately unless lawmakers or the courts act, there’s no quick fix."
IMO this is INTENTIONAL, and fits right in with raksha's post.
Is this real life?
Do you have a citation for this "irrefutable fact"? A quick search on recent gender splits in presidential voting suggests that is not anywhere close to true but I am interested in the context of the statistic you cited.
I've read a number if articles that suggest it wasn't until the republican party under Ronald Reagan took on a platform that was deemed to be an attack on women's reproductive health (anti-abortion, anti-planned parenthood) that women's voting affiliations moved markedly away from those of men.
Another Democrat ,"Irrefutable Fact".......aka, MORE BS!!!!
And no, they don't have to be/and aren't, anywhere CLOSE to being true. That's how they roll.
Woods Walker- Did you keep your doctor/plan?
Better yet...did anyone on the Bowsite lose their doctor/plan because of the Affordable Care Act?
How many times have you been divorced?
Just kidding, but not totally. Just trying to rile up the conservatives;-)
There’s more guns broward county Florida than all of Australia. Good luck with that plan
On another note, since my favorite Michelle Obama didn't run, we got Kamala as VP which is good, but if Joe Biden resigns, the we will have Kamala as president which is just as good as Michelle.
Why, because Trump says so? Show me some proof. If that's true, they should just declare the Georgia runoff for the Dems. since it's already rigged for them. No point in Republicans going to the polls. And if it was rigged, why didn't they bother to rig all the down ballot races? More likely that lie is just a Trump wet dream. He apparently thinks that everyone is an idiot, and still believes anything he says. Or maybe, he's just counting on that his supporters are.
The Georgia runoffs are already in the Dems bag
Everybody knows that
Not only that KS, but several other of my friends had their hours CUT so they'd be under 40 hours so the company didn't have to pay the Obamacare tax.
Like I said, Democrats hate the working class. They may talk a good game, but their actions are a 180. Just wait until 4 years from now how far down we'll all be.
Even some Democrats I know believe some shady stuff went on. They dont think it was enough to change the outcome, but they are fine with exposing it.
There's more evidence than what the left news groups are reporting. Also, less bombshells than the right side talking heads are reporting. The anomalies in the critical swing states and a bland candidate like Biden getting such a massive vote total, against an incumbent candidate that did better than last time, is pretty odd.
Biden is getting briefings and the transition will be fine if thats what happens. We have some time and have been through this before.
It looks like Whitey is doing a pretty good job at turning us into China. He wants to take voting rights from half of the American population. He’s on your side Trapper lol.
Can you post the citation? The most relevant stat I can find is that in the 2018 elections 56% of women identified as democrats or as liberal-leaning.
"Not all women are so weak minded that they cannot handle a dissenting opinion."
If only that were the case among most middle aged white men. ;-)
Now that the election is over.
Turns out China withheld important info on the virus, and Trump didn’t genetically engineer the virus in Palm Beach.
And the vaccines are 95% effective and will be distributed in a couple weeks.
A little late. And old news to the informed. But at least this shows CNN isn’t biased
Since my favorite Michelle Obama didn't run, we got Kamala as VP which is good, but if Joe Biden resigns, the we will have Kamala as president which is just as good as Michelle.
There! What do you got to say about that!
They want her to have at least two years under her belt before 2024...
Well, I guess he proved that he can barely walk on his own today when he broke his foot while walking!
I know if I were Joe I’d be wondering how long before I contracted COVID and died.
Of course not Rupe. They're DEMOCRATS. Lies are all they have, because if the actually TOLD the truth about what they really will do/did, then no one would ever vote for them. And now that they have mail-in voter fraud, they can do whatever they damn well choose, because honest/fair elections in this country are O V E R. It was nice while it lasted.
He can lie all he wants to about made up numbers that are BS, but to tell someone else what they actually LIVED is false, is a Democrat at it's finest. Next he'll be telling me that the business I have I didn't really build, someone ELSE (most likely another lying Democrat) did it for me. Democrats...the brown finger party, because EVERYTHING they touch turns to s***.
If neither of you had to switch doctors then was it really a lie to you? Or was it a misinformation to only some people who went on Obamacare with certain plans? Yet you forget Trump said he will roll out the Republican healthcare plan in “2 weeks” for 4 years. Your party doesn’t even have a plan. As if you even care anyway.
Rupe says he would not “blink an eye” killing a friend/family/neighbor with a different political view and I’m the one without shame. Good one rupe.
The Trump Doctrine is truly "America First". He worked for America and Americans like few I've seen. Whatever you may think of his personality, his love for this country and what it stands for..... it's freedom, working people and working ethic is undeniable.
I will never understand the mentality of willfully and purposely ignoring accomplishments and results..... incredible accomplishments especially considering a relentless and totally dishonest opposition. In favor of whining weenies with tender twiggered feewings because he said something rude. Like get your azz to work. Stop looting. Stop burning things down, ya dirtbags. Actually dared to say Make America Great Again. Apparently that engenders (can you still say that?) a host of "phobic" terms and baseless accusations spewed out that the woke confuse for reasoned debate and engagement. Being "Patriotic Americans" now means anti-American and pro-Globalist. Apparently "woke" is synonymous with "clueless".....
The Trump Doctrine
Something Matt said just felt like the most astute comment on this thread:
"If only that were the case among most middle aged white men. ;-)"
Dude - that's frigging hilarious!
Entirely unrelated, but to help Pat out.
It's awesome that the party that hates identity politics elected, but not only that, adores, to the point that they wish he could be president for ever, literally, the greatest master of identity politics in modern history. It's not even remotely close for second. That's been intriguing to me for 4 years now. One of many riddles wrapped in a mystery and hidden in an enigma this past 4 years has left for me.
Asking for a friend.
Sure. Basically the last 100 posts said "blah, blah, blah....".
KS we are normally in agreement but I must point out that I know of no one that lost their health coverage, but most lost their HMO style plans which the affordable care act classified as "cadillac plans" which carried a heavy tax penalty. Most plans were changed to high deductible plans, which for most caused more healthcare expenses. Be that as it may, if the original ACA plan, which included a buy in to the state medicaid system was enacted, it would have led to much lower healthcare costs. Biden supports the public option, medicare at age 60, raising payments of SS. Since I am retired and under 60, Biden's plans will help me financially the most under 60, Biden's plans will help me financially the most.
I cant help but wonder if he was pro gun if more people on this forum would support him. Most here have been buffaloed believing gun ownership is the only defender to our freedom. This isn't 1776, where the citizen militia was our only military. There is a standing army (which is unconstitutional) that can stomp on us like a bug with advanced weapons, and aircraft.
Nah, that's what the tax man is for, and collecting the guns is for their safety.
You referring to Barr saying there was no fraud at a level that would overturn the results? Man the National Review editors wrote a scathing article and the CEO of Dominion was published calling the fraud allegations nonsense. What's going on here?
I was thinking about this thread and the Broadhead thread. I bet the only head better than Vortex would be the one Don Jr. uses. They should just publish which one he uses so guys here know which one to buy.
Keep your shorts on boys, we're blowing through a 1000 soon enough.
Absolutely not, guys here no much more about broadheads than the people that listens to the liberal left media. The real sad part is they call it news. Check out your 401k, the price of gasoline, and the military at the end of the next four years. The left reminds me of third grade recess with it’s “not fair” mantra. Even more exasperating is most of their issues are not really issues. How dumb can white males be to vote for people who are literally blaming white males for all the iniquities of the American experience. How about some rule changes in the NBA to make up for the lack of diversity! Even better than that is there is not a single outcry from the women’s movement about not being included in the military draft. What happened to Me too? No one actually wants equality! What woman is going to get out in the rain and change a tire when a man is setting there. The really bad part is that the poor bastards who have legitimate issues are used and abused for their vote in the ultimate power play and the Dems placate them with lip service because they need them where they are so that four years from now they can drum up the same old song and in order to get the same results!
It's rigged I tell ya! It's rigged!
Don't you ever get sick of being told what to do, by people who supposedly work FOR YOU????? Ever just want to live your life, own what you want, not bother anyone, and not be bothered? Jeezus.... people like you really make me wonder why we fight Darwinism so hard.....
If all these America hating, commie loving leftists want to take over the country, and by all accounts here had control over the entire election process with thousands of willing participants, why did they stop with the presidency? Why not use the same rigging to add more seats to the House, take over the Senate, and not give up any governorships and state legislatures?
Are they that stupid? Or is Barr right that there wasn’t enough fraud to change the outcome?
Everyone re-read TD’s last post. It’s the summarization of this complete thread, not to mention the absolute truth of the situation. Accurate to a razors point. And, the whole election rolled up into one neat ball. No one here, regardless of which side they favor, can deny it. It puts rhyme to the reason of who you voted for.
This acknowledgement of his post will separate the men from the boys. Men vote with their brain. Not their heart or ego. And, this thread definitely illustrates that.
What side you are on separates the conspiracists from the realists.
Not saying your response isn’t due, nor justified, or anything of the sort. However, I was saying that based on candidate performance in the political spectrum, one with 47 years and multiple attempts at running for POTUS previously, versus another who run multiple times, was elected in an election with zero evidence of voter fraud, then spent his first term performing the duties and tasks he promised he would, against both political parties best wishes, it’d be dang hard to deny anything TD said. Period.
Here is the way I see it. And, I’m a simple man. I don’t play semantics. And, I understand that life requires dedication and commitment from everyone in order to be the best for every one. It can’t be a win all the time and, given the dismal results we’ve built with our democracy over time, it’s going to take sacrifice by everyone to put this ship back in sail on the path that best promises the future of America, as a good one.
The job market concerning job performance of hired employees versus their degree of friendship with their employer is never a consideration for picking a leader. Bosses aren’t hired to be the best friends of those they supervise. Employees aren’t hired by a boss for the same reason either. People are hired or appointed to perform a duty. And, often times, it’s the rude, crude, motivated, and not so shiny that get hired to perform in positions more often failed by those who fit nicely into the idea of the better fit.
Trump wasn’t hired to be deemed presidential by people who feel a leader needs to be polished. He wasn’t hired to be perceived as being nice. He wasn’t hired to be perceived as a modest man content to accept obvious wrongs. He wasn’t hired to make us feel warm and fuzzy.
He was hired to look anyone, elected official or not, in the face and say “No More” to the endless line of abuse the American people have suffered from them. He was hired to make China, Muslim nations, and Russia toe the line. He was hired to put the global economy on a fair field instead of in every other countries favor. He was hired to Make America Great Again. And, he was intent to give the American people a voice. Proven by actually carrying through or, at least fighting like heck to do so, with his campaign promises.
There are many more examples of what he was and wasn’t hired for. There is no need to point them out. We all get the picture. What is important to point out is, he performed his task to the best of his ability. Which when defined, is pretty impressive. Because he didn’t have many friends.
However, the stark reality is many here, and every where when polled, complained he was rude, crude, obnoxious, etc..... To a point they couldn’t over look his actions in regards to his results. Like it was something to be proud of. While calling Trump a narcissist!!!! I spend a lot of time still yet contemplating that. As do I of the other points TD made.
The only thing that makes sense to me is what I said. Because in my life, a man is expected to be the leader. A person who sucks it up to do the right thing. Even when it’s hard. Someone who’s responsible and adult enough to consider all the options and pick the best based on FACTS. Not feelings.
If a man hurts your feelings, whoop his tail or shut up and whine on your own time. Don’t talk like we are girls asking for more consideration. Listen to what he says. If it’s legit, learn from it. If not, call him out. The problem with doing this for his detractors is the results says Trump got it right. Even though people got their feel goods hurt a little.
Keep in mind, I’m not addressing you specifically. I’m addressing every one who’s done this. Grow up!!!!! Life is hard. Bosses are not hired to be nice. They are hired to get the best out of their employees. And, leaders, however undesirable in tact, get results due to their relentless and taboo approaches. It’s the way the world works.
That’s the way I see it. And, I loose respect more everyday for those who don’t. I don't have time for hurt feelings, more appropriate candidates that never gets results, or a society that has to talk it out because they are uncomfortable with a no nonsense personality. That’s why I voted for Trump. And, it’s the only way I can rationalize why those who didn’t, could justify their actions. It wasn’t a hard decision if results mean anything.
I know you wrote from the heart, and you are a good man.
People just think differently, always have and always will. All the writing on this board will not change the way a person thinks, especially at our age.
I trust in the system. It is the best that man has ever constructed, and it was and hopefully remains so with Divine Intervention. There is some very positives with this election. We turned our backs on socialism and just maybe we want leaders who do have what it takes, but we are going to set the bar higher in how they conduct themselves going forward. There is no reason why we can’t have both. We don’t raise our children to be petulant, a word out of National Review’s editorial.
Let Trump’s vision still write the platform for the future. Let the Dems run far enough left this go around that two and four years from now we will have a better direction.
Four years ago who would have thought we would have improved this much? I like to believe He knows what we need, and there are enough good people praying.
When I hear the hard right saying things like they will not hesitate to kill family in a civil war or we should take away the right of women to vote, I don’t stand with them. And neither does the nation as as this election proved. We will be just fine, lots of good people here and most are silent, but a larger number than ever spoke on November 3rd. People are starting to wake up to how serious this is. And that is good, and good will prevail!
FEIW, your buddy is an example ignorant of reasoning, that will further ensure politicians continue to sell the American people out for their own bank account.
And this is the altered reality some of us are trying to point out.
Little lies that hurt no one but Trump: 'It's only one case, it will be gone in a couple of weeks; It will be gone like magic real soon; it's no worse than the flu; masks don't help so don't use them'.
Even after a quarter of a million dead, and countless others who have "recovered" with life-long serious medical issues; 'We're about to turn the corner, we're turning the corner.' And this last just as it's getting much worse throughout the entire country than it has so far, and predicted to get to catastrophic levels. Never mind going to the hospital to be treated for Covid. We will likely be out of hospital beds and/or medical staff for any emergency; heart attack, stroke, or serious injuries. All because of "little lies".
And undermining the very foundation of Democracy by lying about voter fraud. Not only lying about it, but trying to bring it about, by setting up the expectation ahead of time, sabotaging the Post Office, strong-arming officials to change the results, and even after failing all that, still not conceding. And doing all he can to sabotage Biden, the next President - in essence sabotaging the country because of his pettiness. Oh yeh, he's all about country first. Even most Republican leaders are distancing themselves from the mad man. Trump said 'the whole world was laughing at our election'. Actually, they're laughing at him. They've never seen a national leader so incompetent in addressing the ONLY crisis he had to face, not of his own making.
If you can't see the truth in this, it's no wonder you can't see the subtleties of the mess he's made with all of his "successes".
This is why I believe Biden was elected and not Trump. It also explains why some voted for Biden and republican on the rest of their card. Had Trump toned it down most of this year, like he did in the last debate, it would’ve been no contest IMO. The problem was he tried to run the same campaign in 2020 that he ran in 2016 and it didn’t work out for us this time.
Imagine then saying even with those 10 million more votes than last time, he will lose.
Also, if our elections can be rigged so easily by the Left, as some people claim, then why isn't the Right capable of playing the same game? It's not like either side is the bastion of fairness . It's like saying only liberals drive above the speed limits.
Sorry, guys, I've listened to the same Chicken Little wailing from the far right, every time a Dem president gets elected, for my entire life. It's always the same thing...dire predictions like "take a good look at the US, it will be unrecognizable in 4 years!!" and "they're coming for our guns!!", and so on. Except those dire predictions never come true. Both sides of the isle peck away at the edges where they can, when they are in power. The net result over time is a US that is fundamentally the same as it's been for decades. Our founding fathers were truly smart men.
The only difference this time is Trump is willing to burn down the house/democracy with election fraud falsehoods instead of conceding that he lost. He is a man-child. He’s no leader...just ask most of his cabinet who came out against him.
That’s one of your best posts ever, IMHO!
So what are you saying? Is that good, or bad in your opinion? Because if it happens, it will have been on Trump's watch and because of his policies, and just one more thing that Biden will have to try and fix.
There's a YUGE difference, between one so called "credible witness", that says a guy laid on her when she was in High School, and did some "heavy breathing"... and over 400 witnesses that have given sworn testimonies and sworn affidavits under the penalty of perjury to voter fraud. And YOUR chosen media will tell you that there's nothing to see here (of course).
The difference in my mind...Conservatives in general, felt a need to show up, for this Election. Many Liberals/leftists, felt a need to lie, and cheat. After all, their "examples" in Congress, have been doing it for the last 4 Years, without repercussion.
I love the affidavits thing. Every time this comes up it's unreal... as every time they hit courts they are laughed out as embarrassingly gathered and non-factual. Its not CNN or the NYT sitting there going: cover these up, all the people see reality and we cant let it out. ITS THE COURTS OF MULTIPLE LEVELS AND OFTEN WITH R APPOINTED OR EVEN TRUMP APPOINTED JUDGES showing the claims are baloney. The problem in conversation is that it's impossible - as any conspiratorial thinking is - to discuss or debate with. Because any thing - factual or not - presented counter, is easily wrapped into the conspiracy mindset as further proof of the conspiracy.
We do get to watch frustrating pressers like this though when we choose to, instead of looking at reality, to believe conspiratorial thinking. This poor guy. Note, he is a REPUBLICAN. Hired by a REPUBLICAN. Working for a REPUBLICAN Gov.
Really, the Democrats bought and paid for the dossier and the FBI used it to obtain warrants while full knowing that the dossier was not a credible document from a credible source!
“Also, if our elections can be rigged so easily by the Left, as some people claim, then why isn't the Right capable of playing the same game? It's not like either side is the bastion of fairness . It's like saying only liberals drive above the speed limits.”
Really, are you advocating breaking the law? Are you actually going to interfere with the Presidential election! Where is the “fairness” mantra for the oft used greater good?
“Sorry, guys, I've listened to the same Chicken Little wailing from the far right, every time a Dem president gets elected, for my entire life. It's always the same thing...dire predictions like "take a good look at the US, it will be unrecognizable in 4 years!!" and "they're coming for our guns!!", and so on. Except those dire predictions never come true. Both sides of isle peck away at the edges where they can, when they are in power. The net result over time is a US that is fundamentally the same as it's been for decades. Our founding fathers were truly smart men.”
I don’t know about you but I have lost lots of rights since the day that I was born. I remember taking guns to school and everyone going hunting afterwards. While our lawmakers have failed to make us safer while operating under the banner of safety! You are like the frog in the pot of hot water. Have you actually seen them do anything for the crime ridden black communities? Absolutely, not! The shit hole they call Chicago is the one that gets the attention but it is the same throughout America. Have you seen them bring up the fact that 13% of a the population accounts for 66% of the crime. Have you seen the issue where the same 13% enacts ten times more criminal behavior than vice versus? The left skirts around the issues and sadly we cannot confront the issues with candor and honesty.
I can only agree with the fact fact about the founding fathers.
Let’s cut the bull$hit and talk some real issues. I see all these people wanting $100K a year jobs but are they aware of the responsibility of a &100K employee? In some states you cannot even pick up a shed antler unless it is in season and you have a permit and there decriminalizing heroin!
So...you're saying 400 people are all liars, because their testimonies have been "poo poohed" by several liberal judges? If you've listened to any of the testimony of these people, you'd see how credible the some of the accounts actually seem. BTW...sworn affidavits ARE considered evidence of voter fraud (from a legal standpoint).
And yes, there are a few Republicans who feel their Political career would be in Jeopardy, if they actually supported the Constitution, and They are running to get in line, to kiss Biden's feet. NBC News...great example there. They'll seek out every Republican that fits that narrative.
""Sorry, guys, I've listened to the same Chicken Little wailing from the far right, every time a Dem president gets elected, for my entire life. It's always the same thing...dire predictions like "take a good look at the US, it will be unrecognizable in 4 years!!" and "they're coming for our guns!!", and so on. Except those dire predictions never come true. Both sides of isle peck away at the edges where they can, when they are in power. The net result over time is a US that is fundamentally the same as it's been for decades. Our founding fathers were truly smart men.""
Take a look at what great things CAN and HAVE been done in just 4 years. Despite a dishonest and corrupt opposition. A corrupt group in the FBI along with a corrupt group of Democrat politicians pushing a KNOWN lie. Then do much the same in a sham impeachment over a PHONE CALL.... when there is clear evidence the guy we may have just elected was neck deep in the SAME place with the same people doing far far worse. The list of lies is long. KNOWING lies. But we are told by the left and corporate media there's nothing to see here. Move along.
Now imagine what AOC, Heels Up Harris, Shift, and all their partners in crime can do in four years. The Swamp is being filled back up as we speak with the most notorious creatures. Biden? He won't run anything and you know it. He doesn't even know where he is and apparently forgotten how to even walk. You leftists voted for a decrepit ol pedophile on his last legs. Great job. Thank you.
Excuse me if I file "nothing to see here, move along...." or " investigating this threatens our democracy" under the BS heading when I heard crickets from you same people over the last 4 years of pure BS and lies. I fully support investigating a highly suspect, corrupt and likely criminal election to make sure they actually followed the law. Makes it much clearer now why they want to defund police....
Incredible when there is actual evidence to investigate and a litany of highly suspect events.... that ALL broke one way. Why were observers denied access in these suspect areas? Where did spikes come from, counting supposedly stopped when it wasn't? Spikes that didn't happen anywhere else across the country? How does any precinct come in at 98% for one candidate? How does a counting machine suddenly count several times over it's capacity? The list is long. Lets take a look at it. If it turns up nothing of solid evidence, then it turns up nothing. I, most all conservative I know can live with that. But as it is we have a body here that died of unknown causes under suspicious circumstances while having dealings with some highly suspect people. Lets investigate. It doesn't "undermine democracy" it is literally supporting an honest and lawful democracy and fully and completely Constitutional. This contingency, this process was foreseen and covered in the Constitution. What ISN'T legal and Constitutional is a bogus claim by media and big tech that THEY declare the winner or that there is even such a thing as "Office of the President Elect". Seems the only thing more contagious than covid is leftist insanity and dishonesty.
Leftist throw around the "conspiracy" accusations like they toss out the "racist" card to try and shut you down when they can't argue on merit and facts. You folks really have a finger on the pulse of the public.... Hell of a group of conspiracy theorists, near 80% of Trump voters think the election was a fraud and rigged. That's 80% of 70 million people. And even 30% of Biden voters think so too. But lets ignore that, wave it off..... Just a tiny little insignificant fringe group..... good grief....
Just because you don't want to see anything doesn't mean people have no right to look. I think many actually fear what may be seen and exposed.... as well as the results of that. As they feared the protests and feared the mobs and fear so many things in their lives that go on around them. I'll apologize in advance if your conformist apple cart is upset. But these are the same folks who blame the people who don't cave in to rioters and looters demands... for all the rioting and looting.
I've dropped my soap in the shower around these "nothing to see here, move along" leftists before. That's never going to happen again.
No way anyone could continually be so ignorant.
Biden will raise your taxes, raise the cost of fuel, bend the knee to china and come for your guns. He has telegraphed all of these moves. Everyone can see what is coming unless your brain is broken because orange man bad.
The GOP team found 2 of the 100 duplicate ballots were interpreted and tabulated incorrectly. So, 2% of a tiny fraction of all ballots were found to be counted incorrectly. Basically, it's an inconsequential number to the overall election results.
The judge will decide tomorrow, but I suspect this lawsuit will go the same direction as the 4 previous GOP lawsuits in Arizona, which were either withdrawn or tossed out.
The US has one of the most corrupt Governments and media in the world today and every one is ok with it as long as it’s not their Ox getting gored. The intelligence community and the FBI have spent the last 4 years eviscerating the most important office in the free world and people are ok with it because they were told a mean man held that office. People are doing just what they want you to do fight each other instead of them.
You see you Leftwing nut jobs are so good at lying. You totally twisted my answer to your question about a civil war. Just so typical of you though.
Add in all the double-voters, out of State voters, etc., and chances are you are looking at triple digits, instead of just "2 percent". Trump is behind Biden, by 0.3 percent, of the total ballots cast.
I'm a show me kinda guy. Do you have a link that supports your claim that "some precincts were handling tens of thousands of "unreadable" ballots."? The article you originally posted said that one voting center had 104 duplicate ballots, which was considered an abnormally large amount, but they didn't say how many total ballots were cast at that center.
Really, really dumb statement! You support a turd because shit floats.
This was my question:
“ Civil war...really? Some of you are actually ready to bear arms against some of your family, friends, neighbors? I mean actually look them in the eye and shoot them?”
This was your answer:
“As to your civil war question. Hell yes, without blinking an eye.“
I never said there was a civil war. I was responding to others who were saying it.
If that is not what you meant then say so or clarify. They are your words.
In just a local election last Year...Pima County alone had around 7000, according to this quote from an article I was able to dig up, from "Tucson.com" :
"Pima County is sitting on about 85,000 uncounted ballots, three-fourths of those being what the county elections department received Tuesday.
"Of that total, there are about 18,000 ballots cast provisionally pending verification, and an additional 7,000 that need to be examined and perhaps duplicated to deal with things such as spilled coffee that make the ballots unreadable to tabulating machines".
Wow...7000 ballots, just from spilled coffee?
If a real audit is ever done, this is going to be much bigger than you think.
The official count showed Biden winning by 10,457 votes. Let's assume the 2% incorrect figure applied to all duplicate ballots. And all the incorrect duplicates went in Biden's favor (not very likely, but we'll pretend for arguments sake). That means there would need to be 522, 850 duplicate ballots, in which 2% incorrect duplicates all went in Biden's favor in order to change the final results.
Do you think those numbers are likely? I don't. And I think a judge will have to see a lot more evidence than the GOP has to overturn the results. I could be wrong. We'll see tomorrow.
Some could be as high as 10 to 20 percent, some could be zero. It's worth investigating.
Better, in several cases, again, if you read the court transcripts/rulings etc... the clear output of the court is that people are reporting what they may believe, but they are factually wrong.
For example, judges observing that had people actually attended trainings they were INVITED to they would know what they saw was actually NORMAL and NOT a play to mess with anything. It was not a strategy to alter, change, insert more votes or what not. Over and over and over - that sort of thing has been repeated.
People suggesting fraud because a poll worker looked at them funny. "there are no poll watchers allowed" when there were, in fact, poll watchers allowed. "There is no signature verification" when if they had followed the rules their party (GOP) approved they'd remember that sig's were verified the day before. The post master back dated tons of ballots to help Biden... When it turns out only 3 ballots were even moved through the post office in question that COULD have been backdated... On and on and on. Every time so far, when proof needs to be provided, it cant be - NOT all because someone lied, but because they literally had NO CLUE. So, while I'm skeptical, I'm a realist.
Does that mean that those folks saying hundreds of thousands of ballots were messed with or whatever are lying? No, again, it means they are very likely mistaken, given thus far, that's been the case everywhere.... Again, not just according to courts findings, Bill Barr, Republican election officials who took part in said elections etc etc etc. ALSO according to Trumps legal team or GOP legal teams in court (when under oath) who have said they dont have evidence of fraud.
Hey, I suppose there is some possibility. The only actual prosecuted case of voter fraud I've heard of yet was a guy who fraudulently asked for a ballot for his mom who died in like 2015 or something. He was a Trump voter from "Forty Fort" in PA I think it was: https://fox2now.com/news/national/luzerne-county-resident-facing-voter-fraud-charges-after-accusations-of-submitting-absentee-ballot-application-for-deceased-mother/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co&utm_campaign=socialflow
This is exciting. Not because a Trump voter cheated - that sucks. It's exciting because it's further evidence that fraudulent voting is not this easy, uncatchable, epic crime. It's frigging hard to do. The Trump voter caught (in article) was caught solidly before the election even happened - before votes started to be counted. So, while one could look and say: "See Will, that Trump guy cheated no prob, of course there was epic cheating for Biden"... The reality is that a person tried to cheat and the system caught him. Cheating is not easy. It gets caught. Trump voters apparently cheat too - if widespread fraud is in fact a thing (its not) - Trump appears to benefit from it as well. Trump still hasn't caught Ted Cruz's widespread cheating TRUMP CLAIMED OCCURED in Iowa in 16. Nor the cheating that would have only happened had he lost in 16, according to Trump. But he also had his own appointed people look into it in 16 and found it was a zero burger. And his own appointed REPUBLICAN people repeatedly have now said it was a zero burger in 20.
So, yes. I'm finding it mildly unlikely that hundreds of thousands of ballots have been messed with in any way whatsoever. But admit that when people adore their leader and he's told them for years that anything not said by him is not just a lie, but done to hurt him and them by default... And when he's telling them over and over since BEFORE he was elected that there is fraud. I'm certain they think they see it. They have been told to believe it for at least 5 years now.
the number of duplicate ballots would be lower then 522,580 to reach a number to overturn the 10,457 vote difference.
Of the 2% 1 vote was for trump that went to Biden the other was for Trump that was not counted at all.
Per the small sample every 2 ballots are actually a 3 vote swing. Wouldn’t the duplicate ballot total be 348,636 ballots needed to overturn the election?
That is still a lot of ballots needed to overturn the state.
I stand corrected on my quick math. My point remains. Thats a lot of incorrect duplicate ballots, all in favor of Biden, to prove intentional fraud in Biden's favor. Does the GOP's evidence raise doubt in a judges eyes? We'll see.
Shadows of men, who hide behind the statements the courts will determine who was right here. Yet, the courts can’t correlate murder of a pre born to murdering a born human. Yep, you left wingers exhibit great thought processes and reasoning by suggesting justice lies in a court ruling. What a dumb statement.
SMH at how anyone, in any party can’t be demanding the results be verified. Especially after the people who’ve come forward with first hand knowledge of participating in the fraud.
This isn’t a Russian drama hoax. This is OUR countries problem. And, if we don’t ensure that we indeed did/didn’t have a problem, you can bet your Butt a precedent has been set to undoubtably have a serious case of fraud in the process in future elections.
FWIW Matt. aka Grey Ghost. The ole wise and critical thinker. The basis you used to represent that 2% inaccuracy was accurate enough to accept, would swing Trump the winner in Arizona by well over a point. Think about that for a dang minute. and, the imposed implications of you were actually right.
Then leftists tell us it never happens, like ANTIFA it's all just urban legend. huh....
Corruption and fraud go hand in hand with these dem run chithole cities. It's how they became chitholes. Odd how those very places are at the center of the chit show right now when things in so many other places had no such issues.... no mystery halts to counting (when they kept on counting without oversight), have all their records in order, chain of ballot possession, smooth counting procedures and documentation, no refusal of counting oversight, ballot signature and registration matching, etc. No pallets or truckloads of filled out ballots from other states. Others have scores of people born in 1900 and 2020..... many in vacant lots... yeah, seems legit....
Here's a common knuckle-draggin' redneck saying. Don't pizz down my back and tell me it's raining. Leftists and the media have used up what little credibility they've had remaining some time ago. Gone. They've proven they will look you in the eye and lie to you and then lie again on top of it. For your own good of course. More and more people are wising up to it and saying we are done with you, go away. You have become your worst nightmare.... irrelevant. It's why they are dying on the vine as we speak. Several on-line outlets now get better nightly ratings than CNN, MSNBC and others. These people have forgotten what their product really is..... trust and integrity. And currently they have neither. It's a very hard thing to recover once lost, if not impossible.
Many others seem to fear what will happen if/when they do find out what's happened in PA, MI etc. so they don't want to even look. They fear that more than they fear the actual corruption and fraud they seem OK to live with. They will blame the rioting and looting on those who did not cave into their childish demands, rather than those doing the rioting and looting. Civil war indeed. It won't be started by the right, as not ONE march or protest from the right all year was rioting and looting despite the BS. None. In all likelihood they left the place better than they found it. But if I were the left I wouldn't confuse restraint with impotence. Blow em up and let the chips fall where they may.
Rooting out corruption and fraud is not "undermining democracy". It is exactly the opposite. Ignoring and turning a blind eye to it is the very definition of undermining democracy and the fastest route to becoming a third world chithole. It's happening in many cities right now. But it's the people looking into it that are the blame..... SMH....
I always wondered what would happen when the 1st generation of "every one gets the same trophy, and there are no winners and losers" reached an age where they found out that pipe dream wasn't the real story. Now I know. They grew up to be whiney, cry baby dems, who throw temper tantrums like a 6 year old on a maple syrup IV drip.
Donate to Trump’s Defend the Election fund if you want but be sure to read the fine print on where the money is truly going. You’re just lining his pockets.
I cannot believe how gullible so many if you are. Trump lost. He lost in a free and fair election. His continued lies about the election being rigged keep feeding the mistaken belief that too many of you are sharing here and make people worry for no valid reason about the security if our elections.
A judge in PA told Trump’s lawyers - “ Every candidate has a right to ensure that an election is conducted lawfully. However, court challenges, if any, must be based on facts, on evidence,". None of Trump’s lawyers claimed in court there was fraud even though Trump was making those claims in public.
If any of you continue to think there were concerted efforts to change vote or if there is a security problem with mail-in voting try to prove it yourself in the next election. Try to vote once by mail and once in person. Try to get more than one mail-in ballot. Prove that there are problems rather than take the comments from a misguided crackpot embarrassed to admit that he lost. Don’t let the right-wing media manipulate you. Look at other news sources that are objective like the Associated Press, NPR, BBC or others that present news without opinions.
I’ve seen the pattern here too often. Many of those that disagree with me won’t take time to prove I’m wrong and will resort to calling me names, telling me where I’ve failed, how I’m a socialist or some other attempt to insult me rather than do some research. You guys know nothing about me beyond my postings here. You would be very mistaken to try to stereotype me or label me. But I’m sure that won’t stop some of you from telling me who and what I am.
Have at it. I’m done posting on this thread.
This should help Pat get to 1000.
Yep, hundreds of thousands of voters, possibly millions, voted for a Dem at the top of the ticket and straight Republican all the way down-ballot. Maybe so, but it has never happened before, at least not that anyone can document. So, yeah, maybe....
That was alot of meltdown just to say "move along, nothing to see here..... ya bunch of conspiratorial racist bastages....." But hey, when you've got Brian Seltzer in your corner then that's that, nothing more to say..... I mean, the media is who wrote the Constitution don'cha know... they should know the actual Constitutional election laws best, right?
Not some fringe splinter group.... some 70+ million people think this stinks to high heaven. Let that set in just a bit. Can't just wave your hand and say "never mind all this...." They deserve to know, not a pat on the head and a "just trust us.... don't worry your lil head, it will all be fine..."
Nawww. Think I'll just ride this train on out and really see what they got at the end of the tracks. I mean, metaphorically a train.... not some kind of real train or the kind of train the left claimed against Kavanaugh or something crazy like that..... or was it a Russian train? Ukrainian train? I forget..... and apparently that's what so many count on..... that you will forget all their lies and how wrong they've gotten EVERYTHING for the last 4 years... and quickly too.... knew we could count on you.....
but in the end of the day we give each other a big hug smile and MoveOn together with unity
the divisivNess out there is discouraging but we set a model here that others should follow
Our leading cyber security expert and AG, both long term Republicans, dispute what the president alleges.
You have state election officials, many Republican, certifying the results and standing behind those results as sound.
All recounts so far are in line with the original counts, all machine audits found no tampering evidence.
So, let’s me get this right Lou. We have everything above versus some affidavits by some people as of yet the evidence has not corroborated their accusations and we don’t really know their motivations. We also have some statistical anomalies like trump not receiving as many votes as other down ballot Republicans that can easily be explained as people sending a message that they grew tired of him, which is difficult for his worshippers to grasp.
Then there is also those credible sources like Newsmax helping push a stolen election theme.
Have I got it about right? I look at these two competing views, and I must jump to the conclusion it was a stolen election otherwise I am some butt hurt leftist commie sheeple without a spine? OK, at least my brain still works and I know how to lose with dignity.
It’s really suspect to me that mail in ballots were the difference of victory for Biden. And, that is where suspicion should be concentrated. Ironically, while having a push to back date ballots. Because once counted, it’s easy to stonewall and say all is good.
Trump’s allegations have not just been against Mail in ballots, and you know that. He made accusations of a global conspiracy by Dominion machines that started at Chavez’s gravesite. And as everyone of his wild assertions have been debunked, the goal posts keep moving.
So now it is with mail in ballots, yet no evidence of fraud outside of affidavits. We have actual experienced officials, security people, the AG all having looked into this and came up with nothing. That will never be good enough for some people because they cannot accept the results. In their mind everyone must think like they do or they are corrupt, stupid, leftist etc. in perpetuity.
Trump is grasping at anything, and in the process helping to destroy what he claims he wanted to make great again. It is beyond sad that so many cannot see it has always been about him, not our country!
Sure. A half million more votes than Obama. Right.
Great information out there if one wants to read it. The WSJ did a great editorial on the Barr pronouncement. They looked at many of the allegations. One of the things they stated was there are 17 million more voter qualified adults now, the population of voter eligible people grew that much.
Phil is right, people don’t want to do research, they do bias confirmation, latch on to whatever “evidence” supports their view and ignore everything to the contrary.
That pattern all sounds very similar to the birther crap Trump pushed. And idiots still believe that crap. Some here still believe the previous President is a Muslim.
It’s Trumps con job. Just watch his disciples eat their own through the process...it’s already started here.
I obviously can’t say it enough. However, I’ll say it one more time. The results are irrelevant if a person is content to ensure the process that produced those results were conducted soundly. And, at this point, if people are to be held responsible to what they say, that wasn’t the case.
Matt, you, and anyone else trusting the process, as you say, would have to have reasons to do so. Matt claims Arizona’s 2% demonstrated error as irrelevant. All the while that two percent would change the results. You claim you trust the process. I’m ok with that. However, it’s hard for me to process that because you aren’t fine in any debate or discussion on a hunch. What gives here?
We all do have out opinions and points of intent. But, it’s defining that with people stating they witnessed the fraud, with detailed accounts of how it was being conducted, are now being labeled as circumstantial by men who otherwise hasn’t allowed “circumstantial” to be considered as relevant. Telling indeed.
Just my thoughts.
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
I hope you can read this link. OK, at least you admit there were more voters. Now, imagine a much greater percentage that tuned out because we have never had so much TDS on both sides, derangement on one, disciple on the other. It pushed people to the polls, BUT a bigger reason is mail in ballots encouraged more people to vote who would not normally go out to do so. There is actually evidence supporting this as opposed to the lack of evidence judges keep repeatedly stating in dozens of court cases now lost by trump's surrogates. And some of these judges are appointed, not elected as suggested above as being a reason they just go along to get along.
If you really want to get this to 1,000, invite KPC back. He's good for 400 on his own. ;-) In all seriousness, one of the statements he made long ago on the CF was you could tell when someone lost the argument as they would begin name calling. It's what we have long seen from Trump, and people just grew tired of it. It's just not how adults should behave. It wasn't difficult to predict women would turn against him in droves, and the tally shows that is exactly what happened. Deal with the facts, how things actually are instead of the way we want things to be. We're not repealing the 19th, so figure a way to get a strong message out there that is palatable to the majority. Nikki Haley just might be able to do that, I have hope!
So far the affidavits are not convincing Trump appointed judges nor his attorney general. Barr is now next on the menu.
Justin, you should work on your reading comprehension skills. The 2% error in Arizona was on 100 DUPLICATE ballots, not on all ballots. Duplicate ballots are re-created for ballots that are damaged or the machines can't read. They represent a tiny fraction of all ballots, and every voting center treats them the same way. So, 2% of a tiny fraction of all ballots would not change the results in Arizona. I suspect the judge will come to that same conclusion, today.
But, hey, feel free to keep mis-representing what I said. It's comical.
If Biden gets inaugurated in January, please do not expect 80 million voters to believe it's real.
Oh wait...Phil broke his silence, to tell us that it was a perfectly clean election. Never mind ;^)
Obama had the record low before that...with 22 percent, in 2012. How does that work? Apparently, Joe somehow won EXACTLY where he needed to...
Whats also comical is that you all want this thread to get a 1000 posts.......................carry on!
Worth a read. Even for those that believe the MSM cover up. Really interesting where the threads tie back to - and wonder why the same countries pop up that the Biden family had so many business deals with...
There are hundreds, possibly thousands of sworn affidavits from poll workers, truck drivers, postal workers, etc that lay out significant claims of orchestrated fraud. Are they all lying? When it is a felony to provide false information on a sworn affidavit?
Will be interesting where this leads. Made even more interesting by the EO regarding foreign interference in elections in effect.
Both the WSJ and FOX have reported on that story. What's comical is that there is the proof that safeguards and checks work, they are in the process of proving fraud was attempted.
Trax, you have to work for Trump or are connected in some way. "IF" there was fraud we will never be able to prove it because these perpetrators left no trace. Yes, that will keep the rumors and conspiracies alive forever. It happened, we just can't prove it. LMAO. I am sure there will be many here who will jump all over that one!
The facts are, it didn't happen, and as of yet no proof that it did has been able to withstand any scrutiny. What you just did is the same as saying Trump colluded with the Russians, but Mueller just wasn't able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And we all know a bunch on the left buy into that hook, line and sinker. A chapter right out of their playbook, which I have concluded that is what is going on here. This is Trump's payback, but he is leaving a big trace of it all. lol!
BTW, I voted for Trump, but enough is enough. The proof is in the pudding, and Trump aint serving no pudding, just stagnant water. And the sad part is people are drinking it.
You should know by now that if you can't prove it, claim it's a massive, highly organized coverup by nameless "professionals" who leave no trace . That's Political Science 101.
C'mon man! ;-)
Honey crap. Really?
Trump is, and always has been, the most pathetic whiner in the history of whining. He's whined about getting no respect this entire life no matter how big he displays his name on everything he owns. He's worse than Rodney Dangerfield, except he does it intentionally for laughs. The American people have spoken. Trump - YOUR FIRED!
The fate of free world doesn't quite rise to that standard.
If you subtract out the Civil War and WW II, Trump has presided over as many American deaths from Covid as ALL other military conflicts in US history COMBINED, and we are on track to equal all the deaths in WW II. And his response to Covid can best be characterized as denial and lies. Is it any wonder that intelligent Americans have rejected this criminal dereliction of his leadership?
Argue all you want about his other "accomplishments", and most are a matter of opinion, when it really counted, he failed.
If it hadn't been for mostly Democratic Governors, the death toll would have been even higher.
Is the argument that he should shut down the whole country? That's wrong. That's a states issue. Missouri doesn't need the same thing at the same time that NY needs. It's a ridiculous argument
LOL a campfire conversation, good one! I never said that it wasn't entertaining to watch both sides beat their heads against the screen. LOL your best advice is to "beat it" I think I'll stick around cause I enjoy a good laugh but it is sad to see such divisiveness and it's not healthy debate like you think it is, some of it is but most isn't!
The proof is in the pudding, and Trump aint serving no pudding, just stagnant water. And the sad part is people are drinking it.
We had a kid, that shot himself cleaning his gun a couple weeks ago. He died in ICU, but he was postive for Covid.
Counted as a Covid Death by the County (my Wife is a critical care RN in the Hospital where he died).
Unless you're going to build a wall around both, you absolutely do. Covid follows people wherever they go. As soon as you have one case, you have more, unless you respond IMMEDIATELY, or better yet, BEFORE you even have one case. If we had universally embraced social distancing measures as they were reported to be effective, we wouldn't have had to have nearly as much of the economy shut down. It was never either/or. Effectively mitigate Covid and the economy also benefits.
Nobody said he had to "fix" it. The fact is his response made it worse, much worse.
"Ziek...that's if the number of COVID deaths is even remotely accurate."
Agreed. Covid "related" deaths is likely much higher, and will be even worse going forward, if you count those that couldn't get needed medical treatment for other problems in a timely manner, or at all, because medical resources are overwhelmed by Covid. None of that is even acknowledged.
I'm so tired of hearing about how Trump cut off China right away. By the time he did that, the virus was already in Europe. Why didn't he address that? It's more likely he cut off China just to stick his finger in their eye as part of his trade war. Anyone who is still defending Trump's response to Covid, is too close-minded to have anything useful to add to a political discussion. And as has been said, it's all moot. He's been fired.
This novel (new) virus to humans was developed, released and spread around the globe by China. Not Trump.
The CDC data, on their website, says 96-97% of the reported deaths from the Chinese virus had co-morbidity.
Comorbidity means you have something that is killing you.
So, based on the CDC data, less than 10,000 people have died from the China virus alone. And many of them could have had undiagnosed co-morbidities.
Trump shut down travel from China against the squalling and being called a xenophobe. He then shut down travel to hotspots in Europe to limit additional spreading as this virus spread across many European countries that had not limited travel from China.
He brought in the “experts” and followed their guidance - even when their guidance contradicted themselves. No masks, masks. Lockdown, no lockdown...
He removed bureaucratic barriers to push for the fastest development of a vaccine for a new virus ever.
Provided medical results of different treatments that were successful in the US and other countries.
Pushed and provided for new treatments to be made available to everyone in the USA.
Mobilized hospital ships to New York and Los Angeles that were not used and mobile military hospitals to other cities that were also not utilized.
Ramped up production of ventilators that were being cried for from New York and California because they had gotten rid of their inventories under the previous administration. Most of which were not used.
Seems like Trump did a damn good job even with the MSM railing about how horrible he was doing. A lot of skewing going on there!
Can’t say much for the Democratic Governors that put infected patients in nursing homes and killed a lot of old people (with co-morbidities), have insisted on forcing citizens to wear masks and stay home, and continued to enforce lockdowns on small businesses that have had to close their doors. Yet the MSM praises them for how great they are.
That was not Trump. He was pushing to reopen the country. Funny thing, he was following the science...
Apparently, auto wrecks and gunshot wounds are also considered "comorbidities"...
Oh, and as an aside...death rate in America is almost exactly the same as last Year. Sooo...the assumption that "so many lives would have been saved if not for Trump", becomes a little suspect.
That thinking would have been absolutely disastrous for the economy. I believe one of the few things Trump did right through this was to let the states and counties address the pandemic based on local conditions.
There are things that certain states did or did not do that were politically driven that have certainly not helped (e.g. unwillingness to implement mask mandates, premature re-openings), but I think Trump's hands-off policy allowed the US in general to strike a reasonable balance between managing the disease and managing the economy.
If only we we had more governors who were smart about it....
So, why are we being “mandated” to wear masks?
What is up with “social distancing”?
CDC guidance has flipped and flopped on this, but kind of settled in on - if you can’t maintain 6’ of social distance, you should wear a mask.
Masks hide faces. Faces are unique and the most recognizable feature of our humanity and connectivity to one another.
Ask yourselves, why would certain groups be so adamant that we “social distance” and wear masks when it goes against what has made humans human?
Could it be to dehumanize us from one another?
How much easier is it for people to be violent toward non-humans than something that you can connect too because they are like you?
Where is this going?
I'd be interested in reading the cited study, could you link it?
Correct me if I am wrong but these 2 posts are not matching up.
“WW, I voted for Trump the first time, but his display with military tactics on peaceful protestors in front of whitehouse, a blatant constitutional violation, showed that he needed to be tried for treason. He took the an oath to protect and defend the constitution. I voted libertarian for president, but anyone is better than a someone who openly violated the constitution.”
“BTW, I voted for Trump both times, but enough is enough. The proof is in the pudding, and Trump aint serving no pudding, just stagnant water. And the sad part is people are drinking it.”
Yes, please provide the link from the CDC website. I oversee manufacturing factories on 6 continents, stay up on Covid and this is news to me. We mandate and enforce proper wearing of masks and social distancing and have had zero instances of spread via contact within the factory since this began.
Also, let's not forget that Fauci, the Darling of the Left, said early on that there was no need to go around wearing masks. And he is the expert. Wonder who convinced him to change his mind?
Data? Science? It should come as a surprise to exactly no one that the medical community didn't have all the answers regarding a novel virus at the onset of the pandemic.
Not to mention there was the angle of making sure first responders had adequate PPE, which were subject to hoarding by those outside the medical community.
While it shouldn't, it honestly supprises and disappoints me to learn that people who fancy themselves "high information" are still regurgitating party line dogma 9 months later. Baffling really.
However, if people have been wearing masks like they are mandated to enter any place of business for many months, why are cases being reported to be “skyrocketing”?
Why would masks even be mandated based on the current lack of mortality from the China Virus anyways?
Worth a review of all the diseases that have been around longer and are still with us and where Covid-19 ranks. Latest update on Wikipedia has it at 0.23 to 1.15% fatal (October 2020 - probably based on data several months old at that time).
Why are so many so willing to give up their freedoms and take other’s freedoms for something so innocuous?
People have lived their lives pretty well over thousands of years with far, far deadlier diseases than this.
Nor do they now. But it's still reassuring to know that pot stores and liquor stores are apparently safe, but mom & pop cafes and other family-owned small businesses are not.
they both wear double masks because they probably have ass breath.
But for otherwise healthy people, why?
If a healthy person feels the need to wear a mask, fine. Got no beef with that at all.
If a 95 year old person with co-morbidities wants to risk it and go out without a mask, I am fine with that too.
What I do take issue with is being healthy and told to wear a mask all the time, everywhere, to go into any place of business or when any other people.
That is an infringement of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Because you can be a asymptomatic carrier and still spread the virus.
Seriously? Give me a break, wearing is mask is trivial and not an infringement of the any of the above. It's merely an inconvenience for rational people and it's not like wearing a mask is up there with having 2nd amendment rights taken away. Now back to that topic?
Based on the massive compliance of the sheep, the globalists know just how easily they can control the herd with just a simple, minimally lethal virus and a media that spreads panic.
And just how long do you think you will keep your firearms? With your neighbors ratting you out?
Amazing, during the impeachment debate, everyone was a constitutional scholar, with the advent of covid they turned into contagious disease specialists, now they are election judges. There's alot of people posting here that have enough educational training to be billionaires.
Some unnamed government types are using the mask issue to soften us up so we get used to being compliant.
After we are good and satisfactorily obedient, they will then have us turn all our guns in with zero resistance.
Do I understand it properly?
Grey Ghost's Link
'Ike' (Phone)'s Link
Nawww.... nothing going on. Just keep your head under your skirt, don't worry your pretty lil head.... I'm sure the corporate anti-Trump media will be all over this kind of stuff.... they'll straighten it all out for us..... the truth is safe with them, as they are the arbitrators of truth.... honest. Cross my heart.
Ike, I thought I'd put that up to make it effortless for those who prefer to be spoon fed by those politically neutral outlets like NPR, BBC, CNN, etc. Because actually doing some research outside those dishonest little boxes was an incredible amount of work and trouble....
Pretty easy correlation really.
Quit being so simplistic Justin. He’s just a man, he has called many things right and some things wrong. Maybe some of you need a superhero, most are looking for someone who can shelve his own ego for the betterment of the country.
Unfortunately, we didn't have one of those to choose from in this election. Or any election involving career Washington politicians. Obama pretended to be that guy, but quickly showed us what an egomaniac as president looks like in the 21st century with a complicit Congress. He created "Trump". But this time we got a lying, corrupt, confused, senile old goat who doesn't know what state he's in half the time...as the Leader of the Free World....who will make the country better by capitulating to smart, manipulative world leaders and helping to enact the Leftist wish list, as the OP posted to start this thread.
I don’t disagree with you, but all of the cheerleading for the insanity, all of the attacks on people who would just dare to utter disagreement occasionally, fed the beast until repudiating him put the rest of our checks and balances at risk.
Some here mocked the business press, and a little earlier I reflected on that as I read another WSJ editorial stating trump will be responsible if the Rs lose the Senate because of what he has said has a real chance of preventing turnout in GA at a level needed to win.
This should not be about him, now or ever. It’s about our country. Let’s quit attacking our own team members.
Also, as stated before, in this thread, and will be in the future, the real death tolls aren’t known. Saying any different is being dishonest. Because what Tavis posted isn’t new, biased, or one sided. It happens to be the reality if it.
The true death toll due to COVID 19 is simply unknown. Also, spend time watching people who wear masks. They are constantly fooling with it. Then touching everything non maskers are touching. It’s going both ways. Except non maskers aren’t tugging at a mask 209 times a day, then touching everything. Unlike you maskers.
In businesses that hand out masks, the same person is touching or coming into contact with every single person through the door. Before reaching into their box or bag to then hand you a mask.
The cashiers in restaurants and stores are doing the same. Then touching your food, it’s containers and bag, your receipt. All after doing this how many times before and after serving you?
If you feel differently that is ok too. As I’ve said before, promasker like Phil, both Matt’s, tilzbow, ziek, and everyone else can feel free to stay home and practice what they preach. Or, wear your masks when you do go out. I gotta work or I don’t get paid. I know God’s will is what determines my fate. And, I’ve actually spent some time evaluating the risks of wearing versus not wearing one. It’s a no brained to me.
The death rate right now is at the highest point. Get real, watch real news not the trump propaganda networks.
The man has donated his entire salary to charitable organizations, wrote a personal check for 100k to find a vaccine for this China flu and told our allies that America’s funding to NATO is unfair to the American taxpayer... I’ve waited over 50 years for a president to say that.
Compare this to the president elect “the good family man” who last year made over 900k and documented charitable contributions of $734.
I think we know who’s all in on making America great, now all you camo wearing boys can get in line to sell your guns to those that know better than you do and invest in an electric car.
Sounds like the TRUMPLICANS are spreading the FAKE NEWS now.
You mean the death toll the Real news is reciting that includes all the reports of hospitals just listing COVID 19 as the death cause. Couldn’t have been complications of heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, etc.... that these people were living with for untold years. Kept alive by marvelous healthcare developed in a private system, with a “vaccine” of medicine that allowed them to live much longer then otherwise possible? Just put it down as Covid. Hospitals have insurance too.
The real news reciting how the experts say to wear masks. When it takes a concerted effort to hear experts who say that might not be the way. These are the same real news that got all this right up to this point. Why don’t they report what other practicing professionals are proclaiming?
The real news who says the death toll is this much while one of the government experts standing beside Faucci was admitting a total error of 25% or more high on the CDC’s claims. That news?
The same news searched out a study from another country to illustrate their point of how bad this was going to be on us. Only after calling this administration every name in the book for taking measures early on to try and limit the death toll? Yeah, that’s good news man. Real reliable if you are a brain dead sheep.
Shoot, I forgot, you read the Wall street Journal. Have quoted them too many times to count. Aren’t they the one predicting a market collapse if Trump were to be elected? They got that one right. There’s no way they’d have a differing opinion on Covid 19 affects on markets either. Oops.
Get real? Look in the mirror. You’ve been on here talking this mask crap for 9 months. For 9 months this country has lived fearful of something because we were told it’s going to kill us. As pointed out, it ain’t likely going to kill anyone unless they’ve ate, drank, and/or lazied themselves into a health condition that allows it. Or, simply medicated themselves to an age that a common cold poses a threat.
I’m blown away by all the declarations people throw around about this virus from the fearful side. As if it’s written in stone. My gosh man, it’s out there. It is going to kill more people. And, if we keep doing the same things that hasn’t worked yet, it’s just going to get drug out while doing it.
FWIW, it might be time for everyone to put on their big boy pants and let people and business decide if/when masks are appropriate. A lot of professionals are preaching that too. Oh, that’s right. That real news you talk about hasn’t reported that to it’s sheeple. It’s gotta be hog wash. Right?
The small mom and pop shops that are going out of business are going out of Business not because of not wearing masks...they are going out of business because our governor closed down businesses in places.
Stix, you simple minded soul. The man has no right to fondle little girls but he does.
Stop ermine, Matt from California has told you it was Trump not shutting down commerce that was going to kill small business. Not the actual shutting down of small business.
Pretty easy correlation really."
Or by science, which the folks who have preaching TDS have been denying for the past 10 months.
Pretty easy correlation really.
Oh, and here is an actual citation of a study linked on the CDC website. I am starting to get the sense that the guys posting damning stats on this thread do most of their technical research on Facebook.
Funny, are you quoting me? The guy who posted the following above?
"That thinking would have been absolutely disastrous for the economy. I believe one of the few things Trump did right through this was to let the states and counties address the pandemic based on local conditions."
Nah, the sad reality with you is that it is either "asking us to wear mask is a violation of my Constitutional rights" or "put on your helmet and get in the bomb shelter because COVID is going to kill us all" - and nothing in between. It's all black, white, or "cannot compute" with you. Life generally exists in the realm that you have demonstrated for months that you fail to understand or even recognize.
The biggest accomplishment of Government (mostly state level) was ruining the economy. Covid is a bad deal. Covid and intentionally killing businesses, jobs, the economy and freedom is far, far worse.
Here’s the logic by some. People die, obviously God decided more should die so why are we working on a vaccine?
Justin, I will take the proven accuracy of the WSJ over your emotional rants every time.
No Matt, I wasn’t quoting you. I was referring to your endless banter on here and rockslide about trump handling this pandemic incorrectly. I’m sure you aren’t being personal about it though. And, I’m sure you aren’t going to declare you’ve never said that.
I consider being different from both of you a compliment.
Canada’s gun confiscation plan is getting a chilly reception from America’s northern neighbors. Even the guy Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau put in charge of confiscating more than 2 million firearms from his fellow Canadians is at a loss to explain how it will be done.
President-elect Joe Biden might want to take notes. Canada’s gun confiscation horse hasn’t even left the barn and it’s tripping all over itself. No one knows how much it will cost and no one knows who will confiscate guns from law-abiding Canadians. Canadians are not their normally pleasant selves over these developments.
The foresight of James Madison to ensure this God-given right was included in the Bill of Rights can’t be overstated. Neither can one overstate the folly of Biden thinking he can confiscate 20 million firearms from law-abiding Americans whose right to keep and bear those firearms is Constitutionally protected.
Canadian gun confiscation is starting out as an abysmal failure and only promises to get worse. Thinking it would be any easier, cheaper or politically-expedient to do this in the United States is absurd. Suggesting it as a national policy is an insult to the Constitution both President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris will swear (again) to protect when sworn in next month.
Not the Mounties
Minister Blair said it would be too expensive and inefficient for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to run the effort to round-up the more than 1,500 models of firearms covered by Prime Minister Trudeau’s executive action announced without comment, debate or a vote by the Canadian Parliament. Conservative Minister of Parliament (MP) Glen Motz asked Minister Blair how this confiscation would occur and what the associated costs would be. Minister Blair scoffed at the police performing the unpopular task but sidestepped giving a price tag.
MP Motz is still chiding him for an answer. “$2 billion? $5 billion? How much will the firearm confiscation plan cost?” Motz wrote in a tweet. “@BillBlair won’t say, probably cause he has no idea!”
The real reason Minister Blair won’t be asking for Canada’s Mounties to take the task is because they’re balking that it will actually do anything to reduce crime.
After the bodies started piling up the Trumpians said the numbers were exaggerated, they died of other illnesses or they would have died any way.
Then you guys bought this was all a global conspiracy (maybe Chavez started this one also?) to dump trump and it would go away after the election.
The educated rationalists in our country said this would follow the typical virus life cycle and get much worse with winter...colder temps, drier air, people indoors etc.
Now are hospitals are under severe strain, record cases about every day and you deniers are doing what you always do...deny.
What’s really going on here is easy to see. Trump hard core supporters cannot believe more than half the nation disagrees with them and have concluded he is a liability. So the only thing that makes sense is the election was stolen, trump actually won in a landslide.
My only hope is someday these hard core, believe everything trump utters, come to their senses and realize how foolish they were. I doubt many ever will accept reality though.
Grey Ghost's Link
"Ward had initially asked Warner for permission to inspect thousands of Arizona ballots for irregularities. On Monday, he granted her team the opportunity to review a limited number: 100 mail-in ballot and 100 duplicate ballots.
After the team found two errors on duplicate ballots, Wilenchik filed a motion asking to expand the duplicate ballot review. Maricopa County officials stepped in and allowed the team to review an additional 1,526 duplicates on Wednesday evening.
On Thursday, the parties presented their findings. Of the 1,626 duplicates reviewed, one contained a Trump vote that was counted for Biden. Five others contained votes for Trump that weren't counted at all, and two contained votes for Biden that weren't counted.
Scott Jarrett, Maricopa County's director of Election Day and emergency voting, noted during the hearing that the results of the review showed a duplication accuracy rate of more than 99%.
Extrapolating Trump's net gain of six votes from the 1,626-ballot sample and applying it to all 27,869 duplicate ballots in the county would give Trump just 103 additional votes in Maricopa County, he said.
The Secretary of State's Office later provided the total number of duplicate ballots statewide: 52,897. If the error rate from this week's inspection held, Trump would gain about 195 votes statewide."
Don't kid yourselves. Some of us are tired. Tired of being pushed into a corner, tired of being told what to do, constantly, in a supposedly "free" country.
If you actually believe that a tax will make you, or anyone else safer, yiu are completely delusional. It is completely ludicrous to believe punishing law abiding citizens makes anyone safer. It doesn't. In fact it will make everyone less safe. Because at some point, like a beaten dog that has just finally had enough, there is a segment of this population that will fight back. Now you can debate Biden vs Trump, Republicans vs Democrats, Covid lies vs Covid reality, election fraud, and whatever eles you'd care to throw into the mix..... but you cannot debate that when you finally push someone, try to control the wrong people, for doing nothing more than trying to get on with and live their lives the way they'd like, without being under the thumb of sweeping government control, people will draw the line, and say enough is enough. Ain't freedom great?
This may sound logical but I have been to Sociology class and have not witnessed a more biased group. Do not deny that the Dems are trying to load their roles through legislation and policy. Why else would they be looking at making Washington DC a state? Why is Joe’s first task is to make 11 million illegals citizens. I wonder why this was not a priority when Obama had control of the House and the Senate.
Why is Obama so vocal? Is it because he is a great American or is it that his eight years as president was a legislative failure? Joe has done nothing significant for 48 years and now he is the great white hope? You liberals used to talk about being open to discussion. Some discussions do not need to occur. I do not need to discuss why a man needs to be a woman or why a guy wants to be with another man. Why would California try to pass legislation that the age of consent be 14 years old? I guarantee that it was not for sixteen year boys! Obama just stated that many of Trump voters are playing the victim! Hillary it was the deplorables. I guess that this is how we play fair? Go read the Democratic platform for the first time and see anything adds up to an obtainable objective with clearly defined measurable goals.
And they wonder why we don't trust their so-called expert guidance.
I am in an area with exceptionally high population density. I carefully interact daily with more people than I would like to. I have only lost one friend to Covid, but know scores who have gotten sick... some with potentially life long complications. I see it all around me.
I understand the math. I am not freaked out by the risk that I work to mitigate. I am friends with many police and first responders. Anecdotally, I have heard about the inflation of Covid death numbers.
Having said that, my oldest has asthma. That risk multiplier concerns me greatly. I do not want to bring something home and infect my kid.
I don’t believe that this is binary.
I believe that the roughly one in six chance that there can be lifelong complications is something to rationally be concerned about. I believe that the irrational overreach of many of our government entities is real. I am disgusted by the goody bag pork that the Democrats have and continue to pack into potential relief bills.
I am not an advocate of free for all handouts, but know all kinds of business owners who are being destroyed by these shut downs. I can’t believe that these decrees are being made with no real relief.
Chicago is the home of the political bent that spawned, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” The political opportunism of the Democrats makes me sick.
I am concerned for the welfare of my family and friends, health wise and financially. I am concerned about the social isolation of my kids and their deteriorating education.
I detest what I see as a lack of prudent, simple, common sense and cooperation all around.
And I am very angry.
“COVID-19 by the Numbers: Mortality Rates in U.S. Decrease, Despite Uptick in Cases”
I am not sure if they are right leaning or left leaning but if true it claims mortality rates are trending down.
I have had 25 employees test positive for corona. They all were back to work after a 2 week quarantine. Of the 25 employees one has diabetes. He has well came back to work after a 2 week quarantine.
Are they all healthy? I have no idea I am not a Dr. But none of them have any COVID symptoms.
I don’t see why people look to the president or government in general to save them. Or worse yet blame them if someone dies. We have had guidelines from day one. Follow them however you want. I don’t wear a mask 100% of the time. But when I do I wear it correctly. I try to stay 6’ or more from people at all times.
Thanks for that, but I am willing to bet it will change exactly zero minds.
Lou, going back up to where you posted about the 400 people claiming election fraud, I have an honest question for you. You actually expect people to believe in a conspiracy that took tens of thousands of people to pull off (and for which our best and brightest in security can never prove it happened, which begs the question how do we even know it happened then?) but yet you do not allow for the possibility that several hundred may be part of another conspiracy to overturn the results? Can you see the difficulty with inconsistencies like this?
I do, and the only difference between these two possible conspiracies is we have had an exhaustive list from judges on both sides of the aisle, election officials, the AG, security experts, yada yada, tell us one didn't happen.
OB, thanks for your sacrifice and heart felt, reasonable post!
Feel free to call me xenophobic or nationalist. F¥€K the Chinese for allowing international flights to continue to depart Wuhan. I’ll be perfectly happy if I can avoid purchasing a Chinese product for the rest of my life.
And the local Democrats, with their coddling and encouragement of the rioters and forcing the police into “catch and release” policies have earned an ever increasing pile of my ire.
My family will not be left defenseless.
I spent a night fishing and drinking vodka with some old Kulaks who shared their life stories under Stalin. I’ve heard the cautionary tale.
I’m a bit of a student of history. Biden, Harris, AOC, Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff... they all think they’re the new Committee of Public Safety, ushering in a new dawn, unconcerned about their impact on anyone other than their sycophants and blind to the fact that they will give rise to their own Robespierre who will eat the early adopters of the revolution.
The possibility of fraudulent actions does not require a conspiracy of tens of thousands of people. Biden only outperformed Clinton's 2016 numbers in four cities. That's it.
I'm not wearing tinfoil. I am surrounded by these people daily. "Vote early! Vote often!" isn't a phrase coined by conservatives.
Elizabeth Beyer | Wisconsin State Journal The state’s two most powerful Republican lawmakers sent a cease-and-desist letter to the Madison City Clerk’s Office on Friday ahead of a ballot collection event to be held in city parks Saturday, calling the effort “illegal” and warning the ballots would be challenged in court and potentially invalidated.
“The threat that this procedure poses to ballot integrity is manifestly obvious,” Misha Tseytlin, former state solicitor general, wrote on behalf of Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, R-Juneau, and Assembly Speaker Robin Vos, R-Rochester.
City Clerk Maribeth Witzel-Behl defended the program Friday, disputing conservative criticism that the event constitutes either illegal ballot harvesting or illegal early voting, which otherwise can’t start until about two weeks before the Nov. 3 election. The cease-and-desist letter does not affect the event and it will continue as planned, she said.
She noted the program involves city poll workers, who are deputized to receive ballots. Ballot harvesting involves the illegal collection of ballots by non-poll workers to be delivered to election officials or ballot boxes. The event also does not amount to early voting because ballots will not be provided to voters who come out. The poll workers will be receiving ballots from those who requested and received absentee ballots.
Conservative lawyer Rick Esenberg, whose law firm has taken up several GOP-supported causes, said in an interview Friday he didn’t plan on challenging the event in court unless it involved non-poll workers or involved distributing ballots.
The Wisconsin Elections Commission received a number of calls and emails conveying concern, but as of Friday evening the WEC had not received a formal complaint about the event, spokesman Reid Magney said.
Nonetheless, Vos and Fitzgerald questioned its legality and security.
“Poll workers will attempt to collect absentee ballots at over 200 unsecured, outdoor locations, and only deliver these ballots to the City Clerk’s Office at the end of the six-hour campaign,” Tseytlin, of the law firm Troutman Pepper Hamilton Sanders, wrote in the letter to Witzel-Behl. “There could be no justification for this ad hoc, unsecure, and unlawful approach that your campaign appears to be creating.”
The statutes cited in the cease-and-desist letter state the ballots are to be returned to the clerk’s office, said Michael Haas, Madison city attorney and former staff council for the Wisconsin Elections Commission.
“In this case they’re to be dropped off to sworn election officials,” he said.
Thats why finding a 2% mistake in Bidens favor in one small segment of votes was a big deal.
The "mistakes" always seem to favor Biden even though statistically the candidate with more votes should have more errors against him.
Its worth looking at and the country will be fine if we let the challenges play out.
Boxes of ballots from who knows where were counted when they told observers that counting was postponed for the rest of the night.
There does not need to be WIDE SPREAD FRAUD Only a few corrupt cites swayed this election.
Detroit Philadelphia Atlanta Vegas
There are so many corrupt cities that have been run entirely by Democrats for 50 years. Everything they touch or run has been corrupted and run into the ground.
But now we are to believe that these same cities ran the ballot counting honestly.
Out of the dozens of government programs these sleaze balls run into the ground. They somehow followed the laws on one day in the last 50 years.
It’s a little hard to believe.
These same trucks were used for Obama’s elections.
And Hillary’s. They just didn’t bake in enough of a lead of phony ballets for Hillary because they thought they had a larger margin. They didn’t know Trump would be that close. And Hillary didn’t have 2 weeks to find additional mail in ballots.
Agreed it doesn't take tens of thousands, but that is what the trump team proclaimed. So we are moving the goal posts again, it seems.
My position has not changed...simply the allegations whether it is tens of thousands (millions actually claimed at one time) or just enough to move required electoral votes (or replicate Nixon gracefully conceding even though we now know the Kennedys stole an election) the burden of proof is on those accusing. I don't need to go again through the exhaustive list of folks saying nothing occurred that would change the outcome.
Honestly, I am willing to support, even encourage investigations that are not some fabricated wild goose chase. But wild accusations have been made, and so far have not produced anything of the magnitude needed to change the outcome.
And Lou, since you brought up 1960, maybe trump could learn something about how to lose gracefully from that experience. Instead, he courts state legislators from Michigan to the White House to try and have them send pro trump electors for the vote. Reportedly something no other president has ever tried. Does he get a free pass on all of this while we attack the other side for everything that St. Peter may raise an eyebrow over? C'mon man, at some point we have to look at our own standards.
You're right, Frank. Silly me for thinking that actual evidence that's been scrutinized by a court of law would change any one's minds.
Rudy, Powell, Trump etc.
Boy who cried wolf is what we have. Threw so much out to see what would stick, they have a credibility problem now. If they don't come up with proof soon, it's over. The Fat Lady is humming...
EDIT: Just read Trax's post. So it's not fraud with voters, it's something more sinister, we know but just can't prove it.
OK, I am not buying. Matt first pointed out the nonsense trying to be sold here with his 'Chicken Little' post. So let me see if I can tie this all in a neat bow. This thread started with they are coming to take our guns away, which Matt pointed out sounds like a broken record since in our lifetimes we have heard the song every time a democrat president is elected, or I guess appointed/selected by the intelligence community? We moved on to a stolen election based on wild and numerous accusations, none of which have been proven yet. We moved on to the government, might be the same intelligence officers (?), using the Covid crisis to train us into the proper compliant behavior, so the complete stassi takeover of our country can be done with minimum bloodshed and violence.
To conclude, there are some of us who don't believe the election or Covid conspiracy theories so we are not willing to accept a big threat to the 2A at this point in time. I for one am tired of sending money to a what may be a corrupt NRA, or at least let the honchos there celebrate life in ways I will never be able to afford. You have all cried wolf too much for this guy. And Rick, there are safeguards here that other countries did not have, one being the density of firearm ownership and a bet that maybe the LEOs will not abide by stupid laws that violate our CR. I mean if they are not willing to go after people not wearing masks and not practicing social distancing, are they really going to go after 200 million bubbas with semis ready to rock? I don't think so.
Edit Two: Some of you I think are just trying to incite others into doing what you lack the courage to do, or maybe there are government plants here to try and identify the crazies who might come up with dumb plans like kidnapping a governor. I bet those loons had listened to similar stuff we see here and were going to take action to save America as well. LOL!
To Trax's post: Remember Peter Strzok's famous texts while he was baselessly investigating the Trump campaign before the election? That "we" would make sure Trump is not elected? Strzok is now out of the loop (we hope, should be in prison) but others in the "we" may have figured out where they failed in 2016 and fine-tuned their so-called "insurance policy". This is not a wild conspiracy theory. It came straight from one of the top officials in the FBI. He wasn't working alone.
When the dust settles, if nothing more is accomplished than improving the integrity of our electoral system in cities run by the infamous Democratic Machine, this entire sordid exercise will have been worth it.
Fixed it for you, Lou. ;-)
Why the lack of will to even LOOK? I'm smelling fear of what they will see and what will happen then more than any disbelief of corruption by the terminally TDS.
Instead of being stuck "between a rock and a hard place" we are seemingly stuck between cowards and scoundrels....... from both sides.....
Here we thought you were just a troll! Things that make you go hmmmm!
I hope that if Biden gets inaugurated that Trumps last day in office he gives a speech declaring that Biden is an illegitimate president and a criminal then release every document retorted to the Russia collusion hoax . Let Biden go into office and deal with the same shit Trump went into office dealing with. Barr already took care of the the special council that will tie up Biden . I would like to see another investigating his money laundering.
I know you are not quoting me, because you are ascribing things to me I don't believe and hence have never posted. Quite the opposite in fact - just as I demonstrated above.
I have not been critical of Trump for his handling of the pandemic - even though he does bear responsibility for misleading people about its severity.
What I HAVE been critical of from the beginning is people who haven't taken personal responsibility to avoid being part of the problem. The people who parroted that it was just like a cold or the flu, that it was a hoax, or denying that the simple act of wearing a mask could make a difference.
Ironically, it is those people who blasted local governments early on for policy that adversely impacted businesses -including you - who are now the ones driving the current surge and really putting the screws to small business.
My preference is to think your grey filter is broken so you lack the capacity to understand complex positions rather than to believe you are intentionally being dishonest to win an internet debate.
No, it's not possible, unless Justin is more senile than Biden is. I've never been on Rockslide, and I've never criticized Trump for his handling of Covid, other than his downplaying of its severity early on.
Let's put the full weight of the "objective media", the House of Representatives, the FBI, and a Special Prosecutor on this voting anomaly issue - and maybe the Biden Family Graft Foundation while they're at it - for three years and see what they dig up. Which would NEVER happen in 2020 America. Maybe 2022 after Republicans retake the House.
Meanwhile, the media is asking tough questions of Biden, like "Which do you like better: puppies, ice cream, or ponies?"
This time she is caught taking and sneaking out a thumb drive off a table. No worries though.... she seems legit....
BTW, I'm fine with being addressed by my handle, or by GG, if that will help to keep communications straight.
I'm not naive, nor biased enough to think that only one side of the isle is capable of fabricating baseless allegations and investigations. To me, the red team is now using the same playbook that the blue team used in 2016 and on. I also think the end result of the play will be a 4th down and a punt.
It would be fair we voted for who is in the house;)
Some of you are content to live subservient lives, letting elected officials tell you when you are allowed to travel, go outside, what you can buy/own.... and they'll control you by "giving" you something, then threatening to take it away if you don't fall in line. And you will fall in line. You'll take being pacified, and bribed, with your own money, and told decisions are only made with your "best interests in mind" . You will go along with ALL OF IT. And your kids will have it worse.....
If you don't think there was serious and apparent corruption I will use my previous statement... "If you don't think this election was heavily corrupted and stolen you are too dumb to persuade with some clever point(s)" Oh BTW I was in law enforcement and LE training for many years actually teaching investigations at times, I'm not some tin hat simpleton shaking my fist at the tv. When looking at an investigation one looks at it overall and the details. What I see with a HUGE effort by MSM and tech overlords for me not to see it stinks to high heaven. I know many of the comment makers on this thread personally that vehemently disagree with you. They are all bright, informed, accomplished and deeply love this country.
Would you agree that many many people don't agree with you. For the integrity of the future elections and belief in our systems it would be wise to have a vigorous investigation...to "clear the air" After all your side got a multi year 10's of millions of dollars bottomless pocket full use of the Federal Govt that came up with zero. Doesn't that seem wise and fair cause if you have been reading this thread at least half the country have lost faith in the integrity of the elections if we take Phils advice and "Move on" Kinda like the Dems moved on????? This silly gesture lets just move on and come together after their behavior over the last four years...... the hypocrisy would be laughable if it wasn't so stone cold serious...
It's almost as if you are too stupid to understand it.
I will always be fine with cowering to Jesus.
I am not fool enough to say on a public forum where a line in the sand should be drawn. But this certainly ain’t the hill I am going to die on.
Ike, his point is the trumpster is a loser and cry baby, the crying caused by painful bone spurs, I guess that’s where he drew the line, eh?
“ Contestants did not prove under any standard of proof that any illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, for any other improper or illegal reason, nor in an amount equal to or greater than 33,596, or otherwise in an amount sufficient to raise reasonable doubt as to the outcome of the election,” Russell said Friday afternoon.”
*main page turns into Community Forum*
Do you like the direction that the country has gone the last twenty years. Do you like cities determining the fate of your elections? Do you like rioting in the streets? Do you want decriminalization of hard drugs? Do you ant to have a conversation about reparations? Why are they talking science but they listen to the emotional outcry of the animal rights movement. Has long we let them control the conversation we are doomed.
Grey Ghost's Link
Another Judge decides there's nothing to see in Arizona. Either the GOP has some really bad attorneys, or they don't have squat for evidence.
Do you like the direction that the country has gone the last twenty years. Do you like cities determining the fate of your elections? Do you like rioting in the streets? Do you want decriminalization of hard drugs? Do you ant to have a conversation about reparations? Why are they talking science but they listen to the emotional outcry of the animal rights movement. Has long we let them control the conversation we are doomed.
How many times did you vote this last election? As many times as you have shown back up here under false registrations is it a good assumption you found your way around all the voting security also?
Funny how you keep lecturing how dishonest dems are, under multiple false registrations. You must be a dem?
It is so ironic when there are threads about how our hunting coalition is shrinking. It is unbelievable that some here can’t understand why. Until some on here with clout start calling out the lack of civility and the exclusionary/misogynistic/homophobic/racist comments our coalition with wilt away. Do some of you think there aren’t women, minority, or non-Christian bowhunters in the U.S. Do you really think all bowhunters are Trump supporters?
This thread and this site are not civil. You don’t think so then try to have a dissenting opinion on any thread.
The day that Trumps son has emails from foreign companies stating he needs to pay the big guy with some bribe money, is the day the difference no longer exists between the twos personal life.
The differences distinguishing why Trump still have these men’s support while Biden doesn’t, concerning their personal life, is stark and too obvious to suggest otherwise with anyone.
Whitey just made Ryan's point.
Hey Justin, was Biden ever recorded saying what he would do to a female's private parts or have a relationship that was Stormy or that he would date his daughter if he wasn't her father? Your bias keeps popping out. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't want either man dating them. But a good place to start is to have the same standards to judge peoples' behaviors regardless of their political leanings. At least that is what is included in my definition of integrity.
So life is already preordained? If that's true, what are you arguing about. You have nothing to add to this discussion. No other reasoning necessary. We don't need the 2nd Amendment. At least you don't. If someone attacks you and you can't defend yourself, it was God's will. I take it you've never been vaccinated for anything and won't get the Covid vaccine, or never been to a doctor or hospital. If you had a car wreck and your family was bleeding to death, and screaming in pain, when the ambulance arrived, you would send them away, because it's God's will. Or is God's will somewhat selective?
For all that, if He wanted Trump to win, then he would have.
Best response ever to what I called irrational gibberish!
HH, he's on another site arguing with himself again. ;-)
Habitat Jesus hung around with whores and thieves. If he can do it so can you.
Hanging around is not how I would describe what Jesus did. Please, quit comparing trump's behavior to Jesus. You already look terrible with wanting to repeal the 19A, go chill a little;-)
Only the thinnest of skins would think this was an "uncivil" discussion. When you hold it up and look at it..... Those squealing and complaining are among those dishing out as much or more "uncivilly" than they are taking on. If you can't handle the shot to your ego of having your beliefs questioned it's a sign you likely shouldn't be posting them on a public forum. Man up. (can you say "man" still?)
None of these court cases are any surprise. It was stated how it would proceed weeks ago, It will more than likely go to SCOTUS if they will hear it, which they have already alluded they might. Florida was not done at the state courts. State courts are cowards for the most part where the mob is concerned. (SCOTUS can be as well.... see: John Roberts)....and any decisions in lower courts can and will be challenged forever along the chain (see: wolf delisting) as running out the clock is a powerful tactic right now.
As with Covid..... the goalposts for this stuff are on wheels, some on tracks. I just wish they would gather just a bit of honesty about them and admit there never were any goalposts to start with.... it's all just a bluff to get everyone to do what we want them to..... once again, for your own good of course...
The election cases are not about PROVING one thing or another. Without being able to put those they suspect on the stand for questioning under oath and the ability to subpoena records and such there will be no "proof" as there will be no real investigation. Criminal convictions are not proven outside of trial.
It has already been shown and proven they will simply put up yet more cardboard to cover their windows and the media will do all they can to bury it along with Hunters laptop of shakedowns and pedophilia, Hillary's cellphones and servers, etc. Buried, with not so much as a marker....
You want to know the extent of the media "investigation" into this GA video that has been "debunked"? The reporters called those in charge of that office and asked them. Apparently the Foxes said they saw nothing going on in that hen house and in fact there were no chickens at all in it when they showed up, just piles of feathers..... That is the extent of their "investigation". All of it. A phone call. To the people in charge of the hen house. They literally did all they could to AVOID investigating it and staying with their narrative..
The Foxes said no one told anyone the counting was done for the night, told no one to leave..... when there is local news crew in the building at that exact time with more video evidence reporting how even though counting had been going along smoothly all day, there was some snag they ran into, a water line break or something, (of which there is no evidence of any repair calls, nor any damage.... plugged toilets do not elicit building evacuations) and counting had to be stopped and people had to leave for the night. So what they told those reporters, who did NO investigation into what happened, was demonstrable BS. Oh yeah, one more thing... those boxes that appeared out from under those tables after everyone had left, well, they were in fact NOT suitcases. There. That clears everything up....
The people who signed affidavits attesting to this and many other events did so under penalty of law. I want workers and supervisors under oath and questioned. Under oath, as in go to prison if you're not telling the truth, the whole truth. As the people who presented the, yes, evidence, did. THEN we can get down to something serious instead of "nothing to see here, move along..." In essence, that is what many of these court cases are about, they want to call these people, examine records and get their SWORN testimony.
Hopefully it will get there and none will have Epsteined themselves.....
That's an issue much of the public are either ignorant of or dishonest about, depending. A "recount" is pretty meaningless as it simply counts the same ballots, legal or not, over again. An in depth audit reveals so much more. Especially when the state suddenly decides it's a great idea to send fistfuls of ballots to essentially "occupants". States who's primary mail in's were running near 10% rejections (some over) in places suddenly less than 1% rejections in the same areas with many times more ballots to count.
I’m not suggesting trump’s remarks were stellar. But, I’m not dumb enough to suggest that it’s a weakness he shares alone. Nor, dumb enough to believe that every heterosexual man alive hasn’t done nearly the same at one time. Most of us simply wasn’t recorded doing so.
And last but not least, I’m not sure why any of that matters. I wasn’t on board to hang Clinton either until it became obvious he lied about it to Congress. Affairs or flings are personal business that only involves those people. And not a instance that any person should confuse with the actions of an adult preying on minor children. Frankly, I’m shocked you even brought it up.
So, I don’t judge anyone for their discretions as long as it doesn’t include children. IJesus wrote a parallel analogy to my basis of reasoning. So, his reasons out ranks your attempt to equalize the actions of a grown man expressing lust towards a grown woman and a grown man expressing lust towards young girls. It’s not even remotely the same.
I also think Jesus spoke of people like you concerning the prostitute. And, you are doing a good job proving his point.
So, how will this whole tax thing work, again?
ol "fire 2 blasts" & "shootem in the leg" joe is just as disconnected from reality as the dem leadership of the cities where most of the gun crimes occur, how bout attempt to fix up those messes first (hint: pew pew pew aint the problem)
"Until some on here with clout start calling out the lack of civility and the exclusionary/misogynistic/homophobic/racist comments our coalition with wilt away"
exclusionary is a new one, is it intended to replace another weak, overused insult or did you run out of space to type them all? there's several others you forgot but thread is still open, there's still time....remember to heel your sole
All have very strict gun laws. And that is where 99% of the gun violence is happening.
But they now have all the answers for the rest of us.
If there is a regressive tax on guns or ammo from this administration, they will have to answer for victimizing the poor because we all know such policies disproportionally effect the lower end of the economic spectrum.
I never thought HFWL and GG would play into any of this. Oh well, been wrong before
Here’s where your argument falls short. There is a difference between lust and acting upon that lust. All men, save Jesus, have lusted. Most of us have controlled it.
All of it is sin, none of which gets a free pass. You simply are saying what you think Joe did is worse, and to me you are applying standards I doubt Christ will to say that is why you support trump over Joe. My position is we are all sinners and trump doesn’t get a free pass because of something I might think the other guy did is worse.
You only think it’s antagonism because it forces you to contemplate on a position you held dearly. That is what discussions like this are for IMHO.
GO BRONCOS....BOOOO CHEIFS.!!
We are going to kick your butts tonight, again;-)
Jesus said a lot of things, and we don’t get to pick and choose. I get tired of being hit with either the Bible or guys just aren’t men if they don’t believe what you do.
Not trying to antagonize. I am a big tent guy, the approach of all in, think like the hard right or else, ain’t working. Time to accept others who we may not totally agree with but will help us get more/most of what we want.
well said, frank
i will add: it goes both ways, it should also be shouted from the rooftops of every liberal bastion in our society
this ever leftward leaning experiment in freedom will eventually end up toppled without some righting, soon
Start asking for compromise on how much we start getting back on the right track and I'm in.
And for Harris, lots of 'em.
Itshot- First, I had not ever heard that claim before so I want to see their source. Second, cause I don’t take others word for it on an Internet forum...call me crazy. Third, if you’re going to make a claim like that (not opinion) then you should back it up. You don’t agree? Lastly, I don’t marry my opinion/views to any one party or person.
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
the verbiage will be parsed, lib style, of course, but she clearly said biddden is a racist rapist gomogypgone
"I believe them and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it," Harris said at a presidential campaign event in Nevada.
“ He's going to have to make that decision for himself. I wouldn’t tell him what to do," Harris said.
I don’t see the word “racist” or “rapist” in either of those quotes. Hmmmmm...
HFW- Thanks for the fact check link.
There is a direct quote of Trump admitting to sexual assault but I can’t post it here because it’s against the rules.
So I guess both presidents (ex- and -elect) have been accused of sexual assault. One admitted it and one did not.
i have yet to hear from cornpop or the bad boys he ran, maybe they know
maybe it was trump who, correctly, called him a racist and a rapist??
Harris: I believe said allegations.
Is it calling Biden a rapist? Or just saying she believed that he was one? I dunno..... you figure it out.
You miss us over at the nuthouse don’t you?
So did Harris actually literally say those things? yes or no? Or is it fake news?
Above is the accusation. Harris said she believes said accusation.
Now, I don't know if the accusation is true, or made up BS, but apparently it doesn't even enter into some minds, how during the race, one candidate could say "she believes the accuser", and 3 months later be on the ticket, with the accused, arm in arm. Seems like some crazy hypocrisy to me, but to libs..... nothing to see here. Move along.
Hell, you'd probably turn your daughters loose with him.
Is it hypocritical of you to blast Biden when multiple women have accused Trump of rape and he was caught on tape admitting sexual assault?
Ike- I’ll admit that last meme was funny. Lmao.
Your position is perfectly clear You and your spooner are loyal socialists. Your choice Good on you for being able to afford Biden and Kumala
We will all get to see what the next two years brings
I was just trying to be more conservative and make sure we only deal in facts. I’ve been working on that.
I think it’s itshot that needs to relax. He probably went back to his campfire for some more backslapping and spooning.
I'm questioning the convenience of Harris becoming his running mate, when she claims to have women's best interests in mind, when it would seem she has mostly her own in mind. Which I guess, in the long run, I shouldn't even wonder about, because at least I know very very few career politicians (Dems or GOP) have any interest in anyone's well being, other than their own, and those they owe favors to.
“Which I guess, in the long run, I shouldn't even wonder about, because at least I know very very few career politicians (Dems or GOP) have any interest in anyone's well being, other than their own, and those they owe favors to.“
I completely agree. Trump campaigned on term limits and I agreed with him. I wish he could have got that done but I don’t blame him for not accomplishing it. Likely will never happen but desperately needed IMO.
If Biden is elected (likely), I see the potential for Trump and those that support him to take their energy and go third party. That would be disastrous for the Republicans since it could be bigger than any third party effort in recent history and there are no extra votes either main party can afford to lose.
Could mean either big defeats for Republicans if there ends up being a Trump third party or it could mean Trump having a huge influence on the Republican party due to just the possibility of a third party run and wanting to capture his supporters.
A lot of folks aren't done giving the middle finger to DC and the establishment.
Bill Barr, Tucker Carlson, Fox News, Christopher Krebs, Brian Kemp are the latest victims.
Glunt is absolutely right though. Trumpublicanism, would siphon big chunk of GOP's new base and likely lead to a cycle or two of elections with a lot of chaos for the right side of the ticket (broadly, not just the GOP/TP). It kinda feels like that may be the needed wave though, internal debate on the right to figure out what it wants.
That Custer pic is a perfect meme.
Millhouse's point is a good one. The challenge (to me) is that there is a difference between personal freedom and personal responsibility. You need the latter to have effective experience with the former on the societal level. Pure personal freedom - even if viewed as an isolationist reading the Constitution - is essentially avoiding responsibility. Freedom from responsibility doesnt work. (And yes, I can point at left ideas and right ideas that would fall into that reality)
I ponder an extreme - though apt by today's standards - moment in relatively recent history - FDR coming out of the great depression. Had he approached that challenge as a pure personal responsibility or similarly focused strategy, it's very unlikely that our growth to maximal prominence on the world stage would have looked as it did. It's likely every person reading this would have a very different life.
I realize that's an extreme example. And I realize that while that was amazing work by the US Gvmt on behalf of the people, one could say that in years since, things have gone to far. Debate could be had there.
I just think it's really useful to remember that freedom tends to work best on a societal level when it's towards a greater good... Not away from personal involvement.
Debate over where the various lines fall regarding that are great. I know I wouldnt agree with many ideas here in some areas, and others wouldnt agree with me - and that, is great. Because if we have that debate, whether we change minds or not, we all get smarter and recognize the humanity of other people to a greater degree.
Attempted character assassination, not to mention the possible bruising if "he grabbed [her] by the p***y."
I linked a story about 20 other accusers of Trump in case you want to punch holes in all of those.
It’s pretty bad that you can’t discuss anything without being labeled as a Trumpian if it doesn’t fit in with progressive ideology. Many here claim Conservative thoughts. But, they preach moderate to liberal ideas.
I’m so confused why that can’t be seen. I’m a conservative. Yet I’m called fat right. This Trumpian movement started because conservatives moved to the left and call themselves a Republican. It’s hard to define a whole group when half of them don’t share conservative values.
It’s progressed as government intrusion has over stepped. It is a result of that over step. Livelihoods and salaries have bought those conservatives off a long time ago. And, it now shows in their social outlook.
""An election lawsuit by Sidney Powell, President Donald Trump's former lawyer, cites a witness who claims to have seen something strange with the votes counted in Michigan's Edison County.
Here's the thing: You can't point to Edison County on your Michigan hand. And not because it's in the Upper Peninsula.
Because, well, there is no Edison County in Michigan.
"In another case for Edison County, MI," the witness's statement reads, "Vice President Biden received more than 100% of the votes at 5:59 EST on November 4, 2020 and again he received 99.61% of the votes at 2:23 PM EST on November 5, 2020. These distributions are cause for concern and indicate fraud."" Pretty much the same as all the "voter fraud" alleged.
I agree with the majority of your post Whitey. I don't think he was the cause of the movement. He recognized it as an opportunity to enrich himself personally.
"He bundled up that frustration of many small groups..." Like QAnon, the proud boys, and religious fanatics that think everything is preordained (still don't understand why, if they truly believe that, they would be upset about ANYTHING. They could only be mad at GOD, after all. We wouldn't need ANY laws. Life would be just about sitting back and watching it unfold.), and any unrepresented group (of course, there are good reasons why they're unrepresented) that would support him. Add to those, Republicans who decided to give him a chance, and he won in '16. Why is it so hard to accept that the majority of voters now want to return to some semblance of decency, stability, and normalcy, especially in the midst of hundreds of thousands of citizens dying, because of a lack of, not only a cohesive federal response, but rhetoric designed to ensure more deaths. Just look at his rhetoric since the election he lost. 99% denial and how HE was robbed. Over a month and all he's said about Covid is; 'don't give Biden any credit for the vaccine'. Because, after all, it's always all about him. He's more concerned with getting what credit he can, than saving lives.
"I love people that are individuals, people that stick their finger up at convention."
As do I, if it's to confront convention itself, and not as a means to capitalize on it for self enrichment. If you also love those types of people, you would have supported Kaepernick. He did that for a cause, not for personal gain. Trump, on the other hand, used it to HIS advantage. He already had proved how patriotic he is by proudly dodging the draft and demeaning war heroes, but now he had a way to deflect that criticism. 'Look at me, when my country calls I stand up for the National Anthem, then under his breath; but I won't take one step forward. At least not until I know what's in it for me.'
As to the Trump/Bush interview. Anyone who saw it KNOWS he was talking about himself, and was bragging about it as if it was something to be proud of. Even more, Bush lost his career over it, and Trump was let off the hook by his adoring fans, willing to grant him anything, no matter how disgusting or heinous. Proud Trumpublicans, one and all.
“you also love those types of people, you would have supported Kaepernick. He did that for a cause, not for personal gain” You are not very good a comparing things,It’s ok most people are not. Lol he was benched and he knew he would never be a starter again. His contract wasn’t guaranteed like most thought. . Phil knight saw an opportunity to use race to protect Nikes largest source of future income from China. Trumps nationalism and trade war with China threatened Nikes future. Kaepernick is one of Nikes highest paid people. Kap is just like Trump he used useful idiots for personal gain.
Personal freedom and personal/societal responsibility do not necessarily need to be in conflict IMO. The problem rests with what approach is best for responsibility. As a conservative I want responsibility to be the charge of the family unit, their church, civic organizations or local entities. Others see an ever increasing and expanding role for the government, especially centralized government, and that is when the conflict with freedoms erupts, again IMO.
Trump and his attacks on the 'swamp' were really about an out of control bureaucracy that has taken on a life of its own at the federal level. They enact regulations for example that have not been passed by Congress. It is difficult for either party to make headway against the entrenched, career bureaucrats. Dismantling it will prove tough, if not impossible! Trump threatened their "tenure", and the evidence is conclusive IMO that it worked to limit him, and he made that easier by being the distraction he was on the personal behavior side. Too bad!
I mentioned I am a conservative, and these labels provide confusion. I am a fiscal conservative, of the Braveheart variety-FREEDOM. I have always distanced myself from social conservatives as I have never understood people who profess to believe in small government, but then want them to regulate marriage, pot, etc. WE see them here on this site, they really are not conservatives at all. And these people scare the hell out of me because they want their interpretation of the Bible to control our lives. I definitely have my beliefs, and one of those is I have the freedom to choose hell if I so desire. (I don't) It is not the government who must save me, but my own personal responsibility. See, we really have a difficult time separating the two, freedom and responsibility, and those social conservatives don't really trust others and their ability to be responsible, so they see a role for big government in that regards. Both the far left and far right want to erode our freedoms, neither is good at admitting it though.
Some great thought provoking posts here, thank you!
Notice I did not use life in my example. For a reason. Issues are much more complex than the line you want to make, every time. Matt pointed out your fallacy.
I will go a step further, I did not even mention when my freedoms infringe on another's. Life is messy, and few have Solomon’s wisdom, myself and you included.
It is real messy, I am pro-life at both ends...no abortions, no capital punishment. Yet I believe Justin you are one who once told me the Bible does sanction capital punishment?
Yes I have opinions, and you don’t have to agree with them Trax just as others don’t have to agree with you or trump. It seems the trumpians are the ones who have the most discomfort with people not agreeing with them. Our greatest freedom is freedom of thought. Not surprised any more how you supposed conservatives attack liberals for forcing people to accept their beliefs, but your crowd are amongst the biggest name callers when someone disagrees with you. And yet you still can’t understand how trump lost by a landslide, perplexing really!
You choose the science you want Trax because scientists do not agree when a human being begins after fertilization.
Like Christianity, where homosexuals are damned to hell or all fine by god, depending entirely on the interpretation of the management of the person who stands at the front to the church on Sunday morning?
I asked you twice but, you didn’t answer. Are you on Rokslide? You basically called me a liar earlier and have refused to answer the question. So, are you?
No you are just not good at comparing things. So it looks to you like irony.
“Like Christianity, where homosexuals are damned to hell or all fine by god, depending entirely on the interpretation of the management of the person who stands at the front to the church on Sunday morning?”
Just like almost any other topic in life plenty of hypocrisy depending on who you listen too.. Its fun to watch anti types single out Christians though because that was the opinion assigned to them from a young age. Very few people understand the difference between religion let alone what the Bible actually says. Too much work. If your opinion was not assigned to you share with us your course of study in the Bible. Did you go into the actual Greek and Aramaic text and study the differences in translations into modern English? Or was it something you read on Twitter or saw while watching Bill Maher?
Every one of us who have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior is a sinner.
Debating a guy who swears he knows conservative values, but uses a false registration, now that’s funny Trax.
Yes. But not for the reasons you think....
Religion? There are many religions..... and many who think their actions are often not a part of one are totally blind WRT self awareness. Climate Change activists...... Social Justice activists..... BLM activists.... all members of an organized and highly socialized dogma. Religions. Actually defined religions, they have their gods, heroes, churches and leaders. And in many cases activists and zealots who justify actions that are unjustifiable. And decry all others outside their ropes as heretics. Would a religion by any other name.....
I hold no delusion of what my "religious" beliefs are. Mostly because I don't really care what yours or anyone else's are or that you should be made to believe mine. See: I don't care" above. Milhouse nailed it in a MEME above. I just want to be left alone with my God given American Rights. You are free to go forth and twist your life into whatever pretzels you like. It's your life... not mine. Leave. Me. Alone.
But they aren't leaving people alone.... and they won't. They will take away all you will let them get away with. By any, well.... any means they can get away with. Constitutional, legal, rules and measures equally applied don't seem to matter to those who want to take. And to control.
Seems a good many Americans are just fed up and sick of that. Seems that's where we stand. Seems that's exactly why Trump was elected. And that's why we fight. Not to get along..... getting along always means it's us getting along with what they want, it's their very definition of getting along. And not anything to do with them leaving me the hell alone.....
Where did I ever say you must accept my values, my views, my philosophy? Please point to that specifically. I never have. What I have said is no one is going to tell me to accept or believe something I do not.
You are the one who does and repeats whatever trump says. I am the guy who predicted 6 months before the election he would lose. Easy to predict, because he, like you, resort to name calling when you have been shredded. No substance, it catches up to you.
Oh, please tell us again about the superior values of you trumpians who can’t even abide by the simple rules here. Now, go dodge and distract with name calling again.
Trump is not a conservative. He is a populist. That was admitted to above when it was pointed out he did not start a movement, he was the first to identify it and ride it. He has switched parties, switched positions on abortion because he does not have a guiding set of principles other than what is in it for him.
I nominate Tom for the next president. He’d be better then Trump even.
Sounds like the Trumlicans on here need to get a life, because right now they've made Trump their god, and their lives revolve around him.
Lighten up Francis;-)
Now we have Biden threatening to use EOs to implement draconian firearms policies, and some of you are supporting him, believing it would never happen?
"And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak up"...
Who is supporting Joe? What many I hear are saying is they are tired of a drama queen in the White House.
And I would rather they be at home toking and drinking as opposed to out on the streets rioting. ;-)
Drama Queen versus socialist agenda. I’ll take drama created by butt hurt individuals who feelings are weak over a shadow of America.
Which America. The one that's been exploited by drilling and digging until there's nothing left to extract? Trump wants to drill in the ANWR, and tried to revive the coal industry. How do bow hunters and outdoorsmen support those policies?
As to religion and God; those are relegated to individual preference. They have NO place in governing a free society. Theocracy is the WORST form of government, no matter the religion it's based on.
For one ANWR is far from the pristine beautiful location portrayed by "non-drillers" - it's a mosquito infested remote chunk that nobody visits, and the area identified for drilling is a tiny fraction - what better place do drill and secure our sovereignty by eliminating our reliance on foreign energy?
For two, siding with Biden is likely to lead to a weaker economy, the downfall of a whole bunch issues far more important than hunting, plus heading toward no more hunting, including bowhunting. Maybe you disagree with Trump's policies. Maybe you disagree with Biden's policies. But to me the ratio is like disagree with 5% Trump's and 99% Biden's. Saying you're against Trump and supporting Biden is like cutting off one's nose to spite your face...
What he does is what matters. I dont need his heart to be pure. I need results.
Just like 2016 election when I discussed it with my sister. She didn't like either candidate: Trump or Hillary. Wanted to vote for a write-in. I told her I understood her position and concerns, but told her a write-in was a waste. All it did was open the door for Hillary to get in. It would all boil down to Trump or Hillary. If perceived as the lesser of two evils who did she prefer? The choice was clear. Still is IMO.
Which trump record we looking at, the one now or before he changed his views as often as he changed his wives?
There are three branches for a reason. You trump supporters want a king, the rest of us like the system our FF set up. Here’s how it will work out...the left will set into motion over the next two years a House and Senate takeover by the Rs in 2022. The Rs will nominate for president in 2024 someone with similar positions to trump, minus all the personality baggage.
The Rs will then go too far and the cycle will repeat itself, again.
History does repeat itself.
Experts don’t always get it right, correct? Roe v Wade? You don’t agree with that ruling.
Just like trump, accuse everyone of anything you want but when you do it, it’s ok. No wonder you don’t use your real name, you would be embarrassed to, and should be!
That is HIS record. We could of had four more years of remaking the judiciary, he prevented that. Rs are supposed to be the party of personal accountability and responsibility, yet all we hear is you blaming the press, the swamp etc. it is his fault Biden won!!!
Wanting more equality of opportunity to move between classes is not communism.
Wait, what?...What's that you say?.....Oh, never mind. I was having a dream....
KS, why do you always ask for a link to back up statements? You DO know how to use the Google, right? Try this - Google "Kamala Harris equality of outcome" and voila, lots and lots of links, including to the video where she stated it.
If you really want to see that, just watch FOX Programing in the evening. Notice I did not say Fox News.
You just posted your frustration with made up stories and unnamed sources. Unbelievable.
Are you a hypocrite?
I don’t know how else to take we all end up at the same place. If she meant we should all have the same opportunity, she should have said that.
And I did say ‘possible communist’ which allows for my interpretation to be incorrect. Don’t get all knotted up.
And Ryan, everyone recognizes we know each other. It’s OK to call me Frank;-)
Frank- I didn’t want to tell all here that you hang out with a liberal who voted for Biden/Harris. If any of you are wondering, Frank always picks up the tab cause I like to use other people’s money and get a free ride.
It's a binary choice. A: or B: That's it. No gray areas, A or B. If you DON"T chose one you have in fact and reality chosen the other. There is no third choice, no "none of the above" that one just means you let someone else choose for you. It's awesome and unique in the history of mankind we have the freedom and the right to make those choices, but once made.... own it. That choice is on you. It's called personal responsibility. Again, hard concept for some. Denying reality does not change reality. Saying you refuse Trump is in fact choosing Biden and all that comes with him. Own it.
Refusing to acknowledge something as simple as that is a leftist favorite, as personal responsibility and commitment is to many like garlic to a vampire. Kinda like arguing what the meaning of "is" is or that agreeing with a rape victim about who it was who raped her isn't "really" calling that person a rapist. They just happened to be standing in my way..... not my fault, nothing personal...... after all, it's not MY life that was destroyed.....
What really tosses a wrench into the gears is when a person or group decides that they are justified in cheating, lying and breaking the rules and literally take that choice away illegally or immorally. Justified in that they know what's best for everyone. Or they are mad in the pursuit of power and control. Those people are evil and put noble purpose to tar, feathers and flammable stakes.....
I don’t judge a person by their political affiliation, but rather by the content of their character.
Don’t think I have that quote exactly correct either, but good enough.
That sums up you, Trump, and every other election denier out there. That is the embodiment of most Trump supporters regarding the results of the election. You’re just too deep in it to see or smell it anymore.
I’m proud of you TD, you didn’t use “nothing to see here, move along” in your post. Good for you.
Use all legal means at his disposal but stop with the conspiracy crap with no credible evidence that thus far hasn’t held up in any court. Affidavits of what people think they saw doesn’t cut it. He needs proof. And if he’s got it (as he claims) then take it to court.
This is what happens when you get a QAnon quack (Sidney Powell) filing claims. I don’t hear about her much anymore.
Trax- I agree. I hope it goes to SCOTUS. It’s the only remedy that I think some Trumplicans might accept. Maybe...
There are systems in place as a check on voting fraud. He’s welcome to use it but in the meantime don’t make public accusations unless you can back it up. Let the court speak for you. And if recounts and courts don’t go your way then transfer power peacefully as the majority of presidents did in the past.
Can you imagine Walter Cronkite opening his broadcast with, "President Trump falsely claims we will have a COVID vaccine by the end of the year, but that's not true"? Nope.
Just reread your Commie comments.
I don’t like Trump and I did not vote for him either time. I have my reasons and they are not based on any news source. They are mostly based on his own words and actions and the words of ex-cabinet members who are respected by their peers.
I can fall in the same affirmation trap. That’s why I have many friends and hunting buddies that voted for Trump. Friends with many different backgrounds. Look at many different news sources but stay away from those who have a bad track record. It’s a good check in affirmation. Some here want to ostracize anyone who doesn’t like Trump. Too bad...that’s their problem.
Rupe- can you throw a football over that mountain?
‘The U.S. Supreme Court rejected a request by Republican allies of President Donald Trump to nullify President-elect Joe Biden’s election victory in Pennsylvania.
The rebuff came without explanation and with no noted dissents. It marks the first time the full high court has weighed in on efforts by Trump and his supporters to overturn Biden’s victory.’
Drama Queen Trump cost himself this election. However, I’ve yet to really see any drama from Trump. Only those that opposed him. Say it ain’t so. I can’t. Nor can anyone else. Trump is an antagonist. Not a drama Queen.
Trump is a liar. Really? I have yet to see a lie. I’ve seen him say things that turn out wrong. But, never blatantly lie. However, in the last debate, I watched Biden lie outright. And the Trump administration posted videos within 15 minutes of him doing so proving it.
Trump is an abuser of women. Just ask stormy. A man who composed his cabinet and key positions with a lot of women. And settled with payment to Stormy. Seems to me if he had done as accused, they’d sure crucified him. Yet They tried in every way. But, people didn’t like him because of this. All the while giving Biden a free pass to fondle and impose himself on juvenile females. On tape!!!!! But, Trump is worst. You betcha.
It seems to me that most who didn’t like Trump made up a lot of reasons for their reasoning. Yet, a man who opposed him was worse in every way in those examples.
The best leader this country has had for all Americans, has been ousted because he made people uncomfortable. That’s what we got as a country. Unbelievable. We are indeed headed down a slippery slope.
In his defense, I have tried Google to back up one of Whitey's "irrefutable fact(s)" and I could not duplicate it.
I did however find lots of data that seems to refute it, which I realize is not possible because his statement was both irrefutable as well as a fact.
And I don't mean to single out Whitey because he is not the only one who has cited statistics in this thread that do not seem to be....discoverable...using traditional internet research methods.
Which facts are you referencing?
We live in two nations. We have become so polarized that there is no objective news anymore. Even the Wall Street Journal has swung leftish. But the left influence has become so overwhelming, with OP-Ed pieces masquerading as news stories, that the typical person either lives in an echo chamber, ignores all the noise and just goes to work, or simply believes the mainstream garbage spewing from the from the evening news sewer, unquestioningly.
It is amazing to me that Trump got as many votes as he did, given the full-court press to destroy him for four years. Apparently a lot of people like prosperity, security, jobs, and America First enough to look past the idiotic statements he sometimes makes. Barry Soetero was (is) a gifted orator, rarely making a gaffe. Stealing a quote, "I liked what he said, not what he did. I don't like much of what Trump says, but I sure like what he did".
The one about women voting liberal 87% of the time, citations for which I asked about twice. The most relevant data I could find from a reputable source suggested the number was just over 60%.
"We live in two nations. We have become so polarized that there is no objective news anymore. Even the Wall Street Journal has swung leftish. But the left influence has become so overwhelming, with OP-Ed pieces masquerading as news stories, that the typical person either lives in an echo chamber, ignores all the noise and just goes to work, or simply believes the mainstream garbage spewing from the from the evening news sewer, unquestioningly."
The bigger issue perhaps is that people would likely ignore unbiased news if it was available because it would not align with their world view after years of being fed news slanted toward their political leanings. Objective reporting becomes uncomfortable.
I’m not addressing anyone unless I say a name. Opinions are shared by many. So I address points as a whole unless I name a particular person in my posts. With that in mind, this is an open statement for all to read. No one particular. However, it’s for everyone in particular.
Thanks for clearing that up
WHAT science was being attacked. Link?
Clearly, a relative reality only you could create and think is logical.
I think my post is now the 3rd dumbest on your list.
Duck Duck Go..... =D
A whole list of em if you search for Kamala Harris socialist.
There's a reason that headline isn't posted anywhere in Corporate Media. Was a time we laughed and shook our heads at State controlled media in Russia, China, Cuba, etc. How easy to see though. Such glaring lies they expected their people to swallow.... Now Global Corporate controls media and government(s). And bristle when they don't monopolize the narrative. Good. I like see a good bristle. But as proven in those countries.... a good portion of their citizens will roll right with it for a variety of reasons. Iraqis thought Bagdad Bob was da man.... even as they could see US tanks were rumbling down their streets with their own eyes. And the Bobs of the world don't lose a second's sleep over it. Well, not up until they are shot, but that's another thread...
Rupe was spot on
Bruce Sugden's Link
Dr. Len Lichtenfeld, deputy chief medical officer for the American Cancer Society, said in a video published April 24 that UV radiation is dangerous and should be taken seriously.
"There is no evidence whatsoever that ultraviolet radiation ... has any impact in any way on preventing or treating COVID-19," he said. "And we have to understand that we rely on evidence. There is no evidence."
Ok, I’ll give you a real world experience I had with Trump’s war on science. Within the first couple months of Trump taking office and appointing an oil and gas lobbyist (Scott Pruitt) as the head of the EPA, they shut down many Department of interior websites. Because you know scientific peer reviewed information is bad. He also temporarily shut down the USFWS ECOS website. Full disclosure it was reinstated a couple months later. I consider that a war on science attempt that was derailed due to the pushback from scientists and congress.
One might even venture to say "before the end of the year" which all those "experts" and the "science" that was being foisted on us (remember science? they are always just so unbiased and spot on)..... told us was impossible, couldn't be done. Because, well, because Trump said it might. Pretty scientific I guess.
Or maybe they'll hold off like the Global Corps held off on announcing they had a vaccine till what, 1 or 2 days after the election? Don't think that happened? You'll want to talk with Pelosi, she held off financial aid to hard working citizens who are losing everything for her political purposes. Admitted as much just a day or two ago. They might hold off just so the technical semantics and disingenuous word twisters can have their way with it just to say "it wasn't out before the end of the year"..... but make no mistake, when it comes out it will be "Trumps Vaccine". As heads explode.... (hope they have their skirts still up over them or it's gonna get messy.....)
It's also a big reason we were becoming energy independent over the last 4 years and NOT "necessarily skyrocket" energy costs as Obama/Biden promised they would do THROUGH their over-regulation using it as a tool to do so. Biden has promised to do so, end fracking, drilling, fossil fuel cars, etc. He lied about it in the debate (thanks ya flippin' "moderators") but he's on record for doing so, same as Obama was on record to do so. Same as Killary was on record to do so. Ya silly deplorables.... still clinging to your guns and religion are ya.....
Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Lou, been a reader of the WSJ for 40 years. IMO it has not moved leftward, the electorate has and many have a problem with that. The accusations of a leftward lurch are typically by those who detest when the paper points out the Emperor has no clothes, speaking about their semi-god Trump.
Speaking of the electorate, more than half in recent polls support gay marriage, pot legalization, and abortions in the first trimester. And the Republican platform is adjusting, my point to Trax about conservatism defined today is different than yesteryear. It will continue to drift towards what libertarianism was 10-20 years ago if they want to remain in power, and we know all politicians do.
Please read this and open your eyes to what has been transpiring. I will say it again, this is not about love of country, it is about one man’s ego.
At least four other states are joining with Texas.
The article discussed Trump/GOP backed lawsuits. The Texas lawsuit is independent of those. Not surprisingly, however, the Trump team is jumping on board with the Texas lawsuit.
Everything I'm reading says the Texas lawsuit is a Hail Mary, and will have the usual outcome.
Legal opinions I have read said TX has no standing in the other states. I don’t know, but will say this...your reaction is what we observed on just about all of the other cases in this article. People were adamant a smoking gun was found, now in at least 35 attempts the only smoke found was coming out of the mouths of the trump aligned attorneys.
I would be embarrassed to be one of the people who claimed Powell was such a great attorney. Not only was one of original filings ripe with grammatical errors, come to find out one of her alleged fraud actions occurred in a county that doesn’t exist in MI.
What did this team do, meet at a KFC to put this conspiracy together?
Trax is perplexing. Bashes others for their opinions that run counter to the so called “experts”, but when his opinion disagrees with the election experts including our top election cyber security official, the AG, scores of judges from both sides including trump appointees, scores more of state election officials, some how his opinion is superior?
His anonymity begs questions on why would should believe him over the experts I cited. What are his affiliations and loyalties? Is he DNI? CIA? FBI? Or just some blogger who fancies himself a person of greater intellect than just us rubes, aka, an elitist?
Its a long shot.
Trump haters are piling on the "I told you so" angle and how he was rejected. He garnerned more votes than his last win and more votes than Hillary or Obama did in the last two elections by big margins. If the Republicans have someone else they believe can do that, I would like to see who it is. If they back away from the MAGA energy, I think they will have a tough time in 2024.
But hey...nothing to see here, right?
If it makes trump supporters feel good to say he received the second most votes ever, ok. But he still lost to the guy who received the most ever.
In agreement with needing to keep most of his policies, but delivered by a messenger that understands its about the message, not them.
In the primaries in 2016, that is what was different. His message was about the people he would help out. After winning, it became increasingly about his treatment being unfair, and it was. But then it soon became all about him.
That’s what has impressed me about Haley. She left quietly, has not been critical of him since. She recognizes the next candidate must court trump supporters. Wow, just think about it...his policies wrapped by a likable female leader. Can you just imagine how the press will TRY and eviscerate her? Try, because unlike trump she will fight back with a total class approach.
But not more votes (popular) than Biden or Hillary in 2016. And he never ran against Obama.
They all had more votes than Ronald Reagan. See how that works? LMAO.
You mean like the mountains of evidence the GOP had to overturn Arizona, like you posted early on? Yeah, how'd that go for the GOP?
Funny how the army of GOP attorneys can't seem to find these so-called "mountains of evidence" and put them in front of a judge.
crazy joe said early on if you're a man, you're not going to be considered for VP ... and if you're white, you're not going to be considered for VP
that he chose Harris is baffling, unless you believe Joe is a puppet and then it makes sense
don't forget what Joe said a few days ago ""Like I told Barack, if I reach something where there's a fundamental disagreement we have based on a moral principle, I'll develop some disease and say I have to resign.""
Again, the ACU is not as much as an expert on defining conservatism as our cyber security chief, AG, yada, yada...are on election security, From day one it is you who has been telling us they are all wrong with you distorted view of what happened, but can never be proven because they didn't leave a trace but you found it, it was hidden deep... in trump's imagination. And now, we went from legal challenges to the only way this was going to work was legislators, which has not been done before. Guys like you keep morphing the story thinking people are too stupid to follow along as the versions keep changing.
Only one version from me, trump was going to lose the election, and either Biden or Harris will be inaugurated. I don't have to call anyone names or keep changing the story, I just point out how correct I have been and a wannabe super sleuth like you is just a pretender.
Oops, I think I just called you a name, sorry.
Not really, just trying my best to get this to 1000. If you could get some of your super sleuth buddies to post in agreement with your conspiracy, we should have no problem.
If you go back to the first debate you can see how this election played out. He needed to let Biden talk. The more Biden talks the worse things get for Biden.
I think the media and there reporting was a 10 point swing in this election as well. Once again Trump doesn’t do himself favors there either.
Energizing your base to vote is one thing. Energizing the other side at the same time is another.
I wonder if the Trump legal team thought they would win these lawsuits or not. Did they push them to get the Republican state legislatures to act?
These lawsuits ended the way they did because a small county or state judge isn’t going to throw out any votes period. In today’s political charged age that would be committing suicide.
Did Biden hire 600 attorneys to fight the outcome of the election? I guarantee if this election went the other direction the same thing would be happening.
What exactly is there to see here? WI's top 14 counties comprise almost 2/3 of the state's population.
I presume that if FL had a democrat governor this would be a clear case of jack-booted thuggery, but am interested to see how this forum characterizes the events given DeSantis is one of the "good guys"?
Every little bit helps...let's get this Mother to 1000, so we can lock her up, lol !
Shredded your inconsistent logic with half my brain tied behind my back. Now I’ll use other half for a breather.
Guys, Trax went from pushing the lawsuits to now it’s always been about the legislators. Those solicitations from the trump people could have come out and said that instead of pimping for $200 million plus while telling us how expensive it was to challenge all of this.
Trump people conned you out of $200 million plus. You know who I am. Who is anonymous? Does he benefit in any way with these flows of money, past and present, to the trump machine?
I smell a rat and same tactics employed by trump. Try and intimidate your critics. As an aside, I really would like to know what field you worked in Trax. You seem used to pushing people around and not liking to be challenged. That’s not real world, typically we see that in government work, yes, including education.
That said, I would LOVE to see a series of debates between her and incumbent president Harris.
And then the bad stuff starts to slowly begin. Long 4 years ahead of all of us. For various reasons
I have a bit different outlook. With a split Congress this will be just another lame duck Dem administration, resulting in political stagnation, and a shift to the other side of the isle when it's over. Just as our Founding Fathers intended. Truly smart men they were.
I look forward to the next 4 years of basically no changes to the life I've enjoyed for almost 6 decades. The US is truly the best place on earth to live.
If they elections in GA. Go the right way I agree with nothing But nonsense. If the election results in the Dems owning it all Interesting times.
I've got some good money on those elections. We will see
Agreed, but I'm not too concerned about that. A man that can't string 2 coherent sentences together without a script isn't going to have much influence on foreign policy makers. His handlers will try their best to make him influential, but in the end the world will cringe at his senility, just like I do, and nothing much will change.
The electorate spoke clearly. Follow the money grabbers who continue to issue dire warnings.
Pretty tough for the SCOTUS to ignore.
I have no illusion that the outcome will be what Trump wants. Not because of the law. Nor what legal investigations would prove out. Or arguments that are going before the SCOTUS about the legality of changing the election rules with the wave of their hand. But because of spineless cowards and crapweasels who fear the outcome of such a decision more than the corruption it addresses. You see it here when some advocate more for "can't we all just get along" than even listening or looking at issues. Fear of mobs and violence. Some threaten civil war. They will find an excuse to drop things out of pure cowardice.
They might rule for the law, as they are sworn to, as they should. But likely will rule for order instead. Law AND order at this time are mutually exclusive. IMO that's a cowards way out. Burn the corrupt systems and political machines to the ground. Chips fall where they may. Deal with the mobs as any violent rioting should be dealt with. But most lack the will to see that out.
Hopefully this come to a head and gets some laws changes to make sure there are honest elections where honest votes are counted. Hopefully investigations put some people in prison. And get some honest systems in place with real transparency and full oversight. Instead of this "honor system" of people with no honor and corruption as a way of political life.
PS.... that "senile old man" is not going to be calling any shots. His handlers will. He's going back in the basement, just watch. He may not even make it that far..... investigations just now officially opening on Hunter and his dealings. Not just the clear Ukrainian hypocrisy and double standards, 5+ million in "forgivable loans" from CHINA with "half going to the big guy"..... Fang Fang probably didn't even have to sleep with him, them, whatever. Maybe she was too old for them anyway. China and the Corporate Left (becoming ever closer to the same thing) are going to be an issue, fresh sheets on the bed already. Don't know if its delusion or simply TDS insanity, all this was known by anyone who would see prior to the election. But you had to get up and go look, the corporate media made sure it was hard to see.
The very worst part, even if Biden is perp walked out in cuffs (OK, wheelchair...) then you just get Heels Up.... even worse. At least you know Biden doesn't really STAND for anything..... whereas she will DO anything....
Eat their own...have a light lunch because the conservative Supreme Court is dinner and it’s a big main course.
Ike's memes have been funny as heck.... but apparently the rumors are true. The left not only doesn't "get" memes.... they have zero sense of humor.....
I didn’t know cards weren’t reusable. Shuffling is such a waste, huh?
I have a sense of humor. I laugh at your posts every time. Move along, nothing to see here...I never get tired of that one.
Please provide links to where the Trump team has claimed tens of thousands of people were complicit in the fraud. If you can’t provide it then we can assume the other 99% of your nonsense is fiction too.
Why would I waste my time posting the wild fraud allegations when you deny what you said you would do if a civil war erupted even after your own words were re-posted.
You have me beat, 100 percent of what you post is nonsense.
Or how about I respond to Rupe that trump's team said what I posted, I just can't prove it because it was wiped clean by his operatives. Is that acceptable, or would you conclude it's nonsense?
Having the same standards is a requisite for an honest society. Reading some of what has been posted here makes me question where we are at as a country. So many profess to love our Republic, yet the direction we are turning as a nation appears to have many now willing to embrace authoritarianism. Give trump all the power, hand it to him whether by court cases or manipulating state legislatures because his direction is better than the founding principles of this nation. Ignore all the hypocrisy, and inconsistencies be damned.
Thank God there are still enough people willing to keep our country as founded, warts and all. And they spoke in record numbers on November 3. The majority don't relish a civil war, or stripping women of the right to vote, or are not modern era Luddites believing computers will bring ruination.
And the tactics we see on display are simply what history has taught dictators use...attack those disagreeing with you, attack them publicly and privately, do whatever it takes to silence them. And his team has to be laughing as you pay with hard earned donations for his takeover. Looks like we still have enough folks with sand in their butts to stand up to the people with rocks in their heads. And I am especially thankful of that during this wonderful time of the year.
He wont be villified, just put in a position where he feels he may have to step aside for the good of the country.
I do love how the "states rights are the most important thing in the world" crew dont like states executing those rights... Good times.
I have to admit, I'm in a fun place today. I'm thinking the Biden crew should file lawsuits against TX, AL, AK, IA, the Dakotas, Montana etc because CLEARLY Trump cheated in those states. I have, the same quality of evidence that this occurred that Rush, Hannity, Ingram, everyone on Newsmax/Breitbart/OAN/AltRightUniverse Radio etc possess regarding election fraud claims, so this should go just as swimmingly as challenges thus far. And, unlike the AG in TX who may hope to get a pardon for some stuff from the President, I dont have those sorts of things flying over my head. This is a legal challenge pure as the white snow that fell last week.
Look out, The Storm is coming! We can release a Kraken (again)! WWG1WGA - are you with me! Lets protect states rights!
That all said, I live in a blue state, and there for am (if you average the nation) less dependent on the federal government than many of the states I noted wanting to sue for fraudulent election efforts above. So, Ill add to that legal effort. I want their election results over turned AND my tax dollars not going to those states to support anything in them. Those states are more dependent on the feds - IE, red states, (true story) most of whom have low taxes (yeah, stay out of my wallet feds!) - should not get my tax dollars. Because, again, States Rights. I want to build some new bridges and fire stations and for dang sure support public education, and if some of my tax dollars are going to South Dakota and Kentucky, it's harder to do. So, no soup for you red states.
Now, you may be saying, Will, you are being a din