Biden's Proposed Gun Tax & Other Gun Law
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
StickFlicker 23-Nov-20
Ambush 23-Nov-20
Roper 23-Nov-20
Drnaln 23-Nov-20
JohnMC 23-Nov-20
Pat Lefemine 23-Nov-20
Woods Walker 23-Nov-20
Drnaln 23-Nov-20
Roper 23-Nov-20
GhostBird 23-Nov-20
Woods Walker 23-Nov-20
Brotsky 23-Nov-20
keepemsharp 23-Nov-20
altitude sick 23-Nov-20
nmwapiti 23-Nov-20
Milhouse 23-Nov-20
Matt 23-Nov-20
Michael 23-Nov-20
Knifeman 23-Nov-20
WVFarrier 23-Nov-20
Milhouse 23-Nov-20
Dale06 23-Nov-20
Dale06 23-Nov-20
Milhouse 23-Nov-20
StickFlicker 23-Nov-20
Milhouse 23-Nov-20
Bowfreak 23-Nov-20
Milhouse 23-Nov-20
bigswivle 23-Nov-20
White Falcon 23-Nov-20
Treeline 23-Nov-20
bigdog21 23-Nov-20
Milhouse 23-Nov-20
Patdel 23-Nov-20
'Ike' (Phone) 23-Nov-20
cnelk 23-Nov-20
Treeline 23-Nov-20
Rupe 23-Nov-20
stagetek 23-Nov-20
bigdog21 23-Nov-20
4nolz@work 23-Nov-20
Elkpacker1 23-Nov-20
Empty Freezer 23-Nov-20
Jaquomo 23-Nov-20
RK 23-Nov-20
Scrappy 23-Nov-20
DaleT 23-Nov-20
Ermine 23-Nov-20
Glunt@work 24-Nov-20
tkjwonta 24-Nov-20
kentuckbowhnter 24-Nov-20
Bou'bound 24-Nov-20
altitude sick 24-Nov-20
nmwapiti 24-Nov-20
Barty1970 24-Nov-20
Bowfreak 24-Nov-20
newfi1946moose 24-Nov-20
BTM 24-Nov-20
bigswivle 24-Nov-20
Woods Walker 24-Nov-20
newfi1946moose 24-Nov-20
kokosing 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
woodguy65 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
altitude sick 24-Nov-20
OneBooner 24-Nov-20
stealthycat 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
Rupe 24-Nov-20
3rd Degree 24-Nov-20
Bake 24-Nov-20
KY EyeBow 24-Nov-20
HDE 24-Nov-20
altitude sick 24-Nov-20
Will 24-Nov-20
Glunt@work 24-Nov-20
Tundra 24-Nov-20
White Falcon 24-Nov-20
Patdel 24-Nov-20
Jaquomo 24-Nov-20
Jaquomo 24-Nov-20
midwest 24-Nov-20
Ken Taylor 24-Nov-20
Skippy 24-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 24-Nov-20
LBshooter 24-Nov-20
BW 24-Nov-20
BC 24-Nov-20
4nolz@work 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
Stix 24-Nov-20
Milhouse 24-Nov-20
4nolz@work 24-Nov-20
Jaquomo 24-Nov-20
Missouribreaks 24-Nov-20
Stix 24-Nov-20
Shiloh 24-Nov-20
'Ike' (Phone) 24-Nov-20
Rupe 24-Nov-20
Stix 24-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 24-Nov-20
elkmtngear 24-Nov-20
South Farm 24-Nov-20
Glunt@work 24-Nov-20
Skippy 24-Nov-20
Rupe 24-Nov-20
keepemsharp 24-Nov-20
4nolz@work 24-Nov-20
drycreek 24-Nov-20
Huntcell 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
Heat 24-Nov-20
Jaquomo 24-Nov-20
Shiras42 24-Nov-20
TD 24-Nov-20
Woods Walker 24-Nov-20
Woods Walker 24-Nov-20
Drnaln 24-Nov-20
No Mercy 24-Nov-20
Stix 24-Nov-20
Ziek 24-Nov-20
DMTJAGER 24-Nov-20
Stix 24-Nov-20
Woods Walker 24-Nov-20
Ziek 24-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 24-Nov-20
South Farm 24-Nov-20
BOWNUT 24-Nov-20
nmwapiti 24-Nov-20
Pat Lefemine 24-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 24-Nov-20
Jaquomo 24-Nov-20
Ziek 24-Nov-20
Thunderhawk 24-Nov-20
WI Shedhead 24-Nov-20
Jaquomo 24-Nov-20
Woods Walker 24-Nov-20
Rocky D 24-Nov-20
OneBooner 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
Glunt@work 24-Nov-20
krieger 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
krieger 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
Ned 24-Nov-20
skull 24-Nov-20
Missouribreaks 24-Nov-20
Glunt@work 24-Nov-20
Ned 24-Nov-20
'Ike' (Phone) 24-Nov-20
DL 24-Nov-20
Rupe 24-Nov-20
IdyllwildArcher 24-Nov-20
drycreek 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
KSflatlander 24-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 24-Nov-20
Surfbow 25-Nov-20
MF 25-Nov-20
altitude sick 25-Nov-20
Missouribreaks 25-Nov-20
Bowboy 25-Nov-20
bigdog21 25-Nov-20
bigdog21 25-Nov-20
altitude sick 25-Nov-20
Will 25-Nov-20
Mad Trapper 25-Nov-20
4nolz@work 25-Nov-20
KSflatlander 25-Nov-20
Bake 25-Nov-20
Orion 25-Nov-20
Jaquomo 25-Nov-20
KSflatlander 25-Nov-20
cnelk 25-Nov-20
Jaquomo 25-Nov-20
Stix 25-Nov-20
KSflatlander 25-Nov-20
RK 25-Nov-20
nmwapiti 25-Nov-20
cnelk 25-Nov-20
White Falcon 25-Nov-20
Supernaut 25-Nov-20
Jaquomo 25-Nov-20
KSflatlander 25-Nov-20
Beav 25-Nov-20
KSflatlander 25-Nov-20
cnelk 25-Nov-20
drycreek 25-Nov-20
Stix 25-Nov-20
KSflatlander 25-Nov-20
Orion 25-Nov-20
ARLOW 25-Nov-20
Jaquomo 25-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 25-Nov-20
Shiras42 25-Nov-20
TD 25-Nov-20
White Falcon 25-Nov-20
Stix 25-Nov-20
Woods Walker 25-Nov-20
Stix 25-Nov-20
Jaquomo 25-Nov-20
TD 25-Nov-20
newfi1946moose 25-Nov-20
Brian M. 25-Nov-20
kentuckbowhnter 25-Nov-20
White Falcon 25-Nov-20
RK 25-Nov-20
RK 25-Nov-20
newfi1946moose 25-Nov-20
RK 25-Nov-20
Stix 25-Nov-20
nmwapiti 25-Nov-20
Woods Walker 25-Nov-20
Michael 25-Nov-20
Dutch oven 25-Nov-20
willliamtell 25-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 26-Nov-20
Stix 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Bentstick81 26-Nov-20
altitude sick 26-Nov-20
newfi1946moose 26-Nov-20
Tonybear61 26-Nov-20
Jaquomo 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Stix 26-Nov-20
Thunderhawk 26-Nov-20
Ziek 26-Nov-20
bigdog21 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Thunderhawk 26-Nov-20
Matt 26-Nov-20
Skippy 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Jaquomo 26-Nov-20
Woods Walker 26-Nov-20
Orion 26-Nov-20
jingalls 26-Nov-20
Drnaln 26-Nov-20
Patdel 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
DiRTY MiKE 26-Nov-20
Ziek 26-Nov-20
Drnaln 26-Nov-20
Jaquomo 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
Orion 26-Nov-20
Ermine 26-Nov-20
Ziek 26-Nov-20
Milhouse 26-Nov-20
jingalls 26-Nov-20
RK 26-Nov-20
Thornton 26-Nov-20
JL 26-Nov-20
Orion 26-Nov-20
Glunt@work 26-Nov-20
Jaquomo 26-Nov-20
Stix 26-Nov-20
Glunt@work 26-Nov-20
Jaquomo 27-Nov-20
Glunt@work 27-Nov-20
newfi1946moose 27-Nov-20
Missouribreaks 27-Nov-20
Scrappy 27-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 27-Nov-20
altitude sick 27-Nov-20
Glunt@work 27-Nov-20
Jaquomo 27-Nov-20
TD 27-Nov-20
drycreek 27-Nov-20
Whitey 27-Nov-20
4nolz@work 27-Nov-20
KSflatlander 28-Nov-20
WV Mountaineer 28-Nov-20
greg simon 28-Nov-20
sleepyhunter 28-Nov-20
Michael 28-Nov-20
KSflatlander 28-Nov-20
trublucolo 28-Nov-20
Ambush 28-Nov-20
Catscratch 28-Nov-20
Ziek 28-Nov-20
Ambush 28-Nov-20
TD 28-Nov-20
Adventurewriter 28-Nov-20
KSflatlander 28-Nov-20
Ambush 28-Nov-20
bigeasygator 28-Nov-20
Orion 28-Nov-20
Grey Ghost 28-Nov-20
Ziek 28-Nov-20
Woods Walker 28-Nov-20
Ambush 28-Nov-20
WV Mountaineer 28-Nov-20
Ziek 28-Nov-20
drycreek 28-Nov-20
Glunt@work 28-Nov-20
Snag 28-Nov-20
Snag 28-Nov-20
Milhouse 28-Nov-20
Ziek 28-Nov-20
Ziek 28-Nov-20
Milhouse 28-Nov-20
Adventurewriter 28-Nov-20
BC 28-Nov-20
4nolz@work 28-Nov-20
Milhouse 28-Nov-20
KSflatlander 28-Nov-20
Adventurewriter 28-Nov-20
KSflatlander 28-Nov-20
Milhouse 28-Nov-20
KSflatlander 28-Nov-20
Milhouse 28-Nov-20
Milhouse 28-Nov-20
3rd Degree 28-Nov-20
Adventurewriter 28-Nov-20
WV Mountaineer 28-Nov-20
newfi1946moose 29-Nov-20
Jaquomo 29-Nov-20
Snag 29-Nov-20
DiRTY MiKE 29-Nov-20
Jaquomo 29-Nov-20
Ziek 29-Nov-20
Ziek 29-Nov-20
Glunt@work 29-Nov-20
Whitey 29-Nov-20
hunt'n addict 29-Nov-20
Milhouse 29-Nov-20
Woods Walker 29-Nov-20
Milhouse 29-Nov-20
drycreek 29-Nov-20
Rupe 29-Nov-20
KSflatlander 30-Nov-20
trophyhill 30-Nov-20
Woods Walker 30-Nov-20
drycreek 30-Nov-20
KSflatlander 30-Nov-20
Whitey 30-Nov-20
bigswivle 30-Nov-20
Matt 30-Nov-20
Woods Walker 30-Nov-20
KSflatlander 30-Nov-20
Whitey 30-Nov-20
Dale06 30-Nov-20
bigswivle 30-Nov-20
KSflatlander 30-Nov-20
Stix 30-Nov-20
Ziek 30-Nov-20
RK 30-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 30-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 30-Nov-20
Woods Walker 30-Nov-20
Glunt@work 30-Nov-20
KSflatlander 30-Nov-20
Orion 30-Nov-20
KSflatlander 30-Nov-20
Matt 30-Nov-20
redheadlover 30-Nov-20
altitude sick 30-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 30-Nov-20
Stix 30-Nov-20
Glunt@work 30-Nov-20
TrapperKayak 30-Nov-20
'Ike' (Phone) 30-Nov-20
Rupe 30-Nov-20
StickFlicker 01-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 01-Dec-20
Woods Walker 01-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 01-Dec-20
KSflatlander 01-Dec-20
Woods Walker 01-Dec-20
Ziek 01-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 01-Dec-20
Stix 01-Dec-20
Jaquomo 01-Dec-20
Huntcell 01-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 01-Dec-20
TD 01-Dec-20
Stix 01-Dec-20
JL 01-Dec-20
Will 01-Dec-20
'Ike' 01-Dec-20
Will 01-Dec-20
IdyllwildArcher 01-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 01-Dec-20
Stix 01-Dec-20
Wild Bill 01-Dec-20
Rocky D 01-Dec-20
Will 01-Dec-20
nchunter 01-Dec-20
JL 01-Dec-20
Stix 01-Dec-20
DiRTY MiKE 01-Dec-20
Milhouse 01-Dec-20
Milhouse 01-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 01-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 01-Dec-20
Stix 01-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 01-Dec-20
Ziek 01-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 01-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 01-Dec-20
Tilzbow 02-Dec-20
Glunt@work 02-Dec-20
Snuffer 02-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 02-Dec-20
KSflatlander 02-Dec-20
Will 02-Dec-20
Snuffer 02-Dec-20
Ziek 02-Dec-20
elkmtngear 02-Dec-20
Will 02-Dec-20
Rocky D 02-Dec-20
elkmtngear 02-Dec-20
Southern draw 02-Dec-20
Stix 02-Dec-20
Stix 02-Dec-20
elkmtngear 02-Dec-20
TD 02-Dec-20
DiRTY MiKE 02-Dec-20
'Ike' 02-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 02-Dec-20
Whitey 02-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 02-Dec-20
Rupe 02-Dec-20
elkmtngear 02-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 02-Dec-20
Rocky D 02-Dec-20
KSflatlander 02-Dec-20
elkmtngear 02-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 02-Dec-20
elkmtngear 02-Dec-20
Will 02-Dec-20
Whitey 02-Dec-20
petedrummond 02-Dec-20
Michael 02-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 02-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 02-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 02-Dec-20
TD 02-Dec-20
Milhouse 02-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 02-Dec-20
Phil Magistro 02-Dec-20
Milhouse 02-Dec-20
Jaquomo 02-Dec-20
Glunt@work 02-Dec-20
TD 03-Dec-20
Bou'bound 03-Dec-20
Snuffer 03-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
Knifeman 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
Milhouse 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
KSflatlander 03-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 03-Dec-20
KSflatlander 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
elkmtngear 03-Dec-20
elkmtngear 03-Dec-20
mrelite 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
Treeline 03-Dec-20
Stix 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Ziek 03-Dec-20
Patdel 03-Dec-20
PECO 03-Dec-20
Glunt@work 03-Dec-20
Ziek 03-Dec-20
Bake 03-Dec-20
mrelite 03-Dec-20
Stix 03-Dec-20
PECO 03-Dec-20
Patdel 03-Dec-20
smarba 03-Dec-20
elkmtngear 03-Dec-20
StickFlicker 03-Dec-20
Ziek 03-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 03-Dec-20
Treeline 03-Dec-20
elkmtngear 03-Dec-20
Matt 03-Dec-20
smarba 03-Dec-20
Treeline 03-Dec-20
Matt 03-Dec-20
Michael 03-Dec-20
Tilzbow 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Matt 03-Dec-20
Treeline 03-Dec-20
Whitey 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
Snuffer 03-Dec-20
kentuckbowhnter 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Treeline 03-Dec-20
Whitey 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Tilzbow 03-Dec-20
Treeline 03-Dec-20
Stix 03-Dec-20
Matt 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Treeline 03-Dec-20
Ziek 03-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 03-Dec-20
Milhouse 03-Dec-20
Milhouse 03-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 03-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 03-Dec-20
Milhouse 03-Dec-20
TD 03-Dec-20
bigdog21 03-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
Jaquomo 03-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 03-Dec-20
IdyllwildArcher 03-Dec-20
Oneelk 03-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 03-Dec-20
Stix 03-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 03-Dec-20
Ermine 03-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-20
Matt 04-Dec-20
Matt 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
Glunt@work 04-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-20
altitude sick 04-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-20
tobywon 04-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 04-Dec-20
Milhouse 04-Dec-20
Rocky D 04-Dec-20
Jaquomo 04-Dec-20
orionsbrother 04-Dec-20
Michael 04-Dec-20
orionsbrother 04-Dec-20
Jaquomo 04-Dec-20
orionsbrother 04-Dec-20
orionsbrother 04-Dec-20
Glunt@work 04-Dec-20
altitude sick 04-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 04-Dec-20
orionsbrother 04-Dec-20
Stix 04-Dec-20
Jaquomo 04-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 04-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-20
Glunt@work 04-Dec-20
TD 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 04-Dec-20
Whitey 04-Dec-20
Matt 04-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 04-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 04-Dec-20
Jaquomo 04-Dec-20
TD 04-Dec-20
Bou'bound 04-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 04-Dec-20
orionsbrother 04-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 04-Dec-20
Michael 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
Michael 04-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 04-Dec-20
Milhouse 04-Dec-20
Milhouse 04-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 04-Dec-20
Milhouse 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
Irishman 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
Milhouse 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
Milhouse 04-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 04-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 04-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 04-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 04-Dec-20
yooper89 04-Dec-20
Owl 05-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 05-Dec-20
Rocky D 05-Dec-20
tobywon 05-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 05-Dec-20
Rocky D 05-Dec-20
Jaquomo 05-Dec-20
Bowone1 05-Dec-20
KSflatlander 05-Dec-20
Jaquomo 05-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 05-Dec-20
Ziek 05-Dec-20
Whitey 05-Dec-20
sundowner 05-Dec-20
TD 05-Dec-20
TD 05-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 05-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 05-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 05-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 05-Dec-20
itshot 05-Dec-20
altitude sick 05-Dec-20
keepemsharp 05-Dec-20
Owl 05-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 05-Dec-20
RK 05-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 05-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 05-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 05-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 06-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 06-Dec-20
Tilzbow 06-Dec-20
itshot 06-Dec-20
Glunt@work 06-Dec-20
bigdog21 06-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 06-Dec-20
Milhouse 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
itshot 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
itshot 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
Milhouse 06-Dec-20
Milhouse 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
itshot 06-Dec-20
Milhouse 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
itshot 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 06-Dec-20
Milhouse 06-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
RK 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
Milhouse 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
Jaquomo 06-Dec-20
KSflatlander 06-Dec-20
Milhouse 06-Dec-20
Matt 06-Dec-20
Glunt@work 06-Dec-20
DaleT 07-Dec-20
Glunt@work 07-Dec-20
KSflatlander 07-Dec-20
Ziek 07-Dec-20
Will 07-Dec-20
KSflatlander 07-Dec-20
Matt 07-Dec-20
Whitey 07-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 07-Dec-20
Ziek 07-Dec-20
Whitey 07-Dec-20
Matt 07-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 07-Dec-20
Matt 07-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 07-Dec-20
Whitey 07-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 07-Dec-20
TD 07-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 07-Dec-20
Stix 07-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 08-Dec-20
Skippy 08-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 08-Dec-20
Bowfreak 08-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 08-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 08-Dec-20
Bowfreak 08-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 08-Dec-20
Jaquomo 08-Dec-20
Rupe 08-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 08-Dec-20
TRnCO 08-Dec-20
Ziek 08-Dec-20
smarba 08-Dec-20
Glunt@work 08-Dec-20
Stix 08-Dec-20
smarba 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
Glunt@work 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
Whitey 08-Dec-20
Jaquomo 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
TD 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 08-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 08-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 08-Dec-20
Screwball 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
Jaquomo 08-Dec-20
Rupe 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
Adventurewriter 08-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 08-Dec-20
bigdog21 08-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 08-Dec-20
Matt 08-Dec-20
Whitey 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
Jaquomo 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
Matt 08-Dec-20
Whitey 08-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 08-Dec-20
RK 08-Dec-20
RK 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
TD 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
RK 08-Dec-20
Glunt@work 08-Dec-20
Bruce Sugden 08-Dec-20
Glunt@work 08-Dec-20
TrapperKayak 08-Dec-20
Jaquomo 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 08-Dec-20
KSflatlander 08-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 08-Dec-20
Glunt@work 08-Dec-20
TD 09-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 09-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 09-Dec-20
Treeline 09-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 09-Dec-20
elkmtngear 09-Dec-20
Glunt@work 09-Dec-20
elkmtngear 09-Dec-20
KSflatlander 09-Dec-20
Ziek 09-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 09-Dec-20
stealthycat 09-Dec-20
Michael 09-Dec-20
Matt 09-Dec-20
Matt 09-Dec-20
Bowfreak 09-Dec-20
elkmtngear 09-Dec-20
Jaquomo 09-Dec-20
DaleT 09-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 09-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 09-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 09-Dec-20
Huntcell 09-Dec-20
RK 09-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 09-Dec-20
RK 09-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 09-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 09-Dec-20
Michael 09-Dec-20
Grey Ghost 09-Dec-20
elkmtngear 09-Dec-20
Matt 09-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 09-Dec-20
TD 09-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 09-Dec-20
KSflatlander 09-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 09-Dec-20
KSflatlander 09-Dec-20
TD 09-Dec-20
KSflatlander 10-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 10-Dec-20
Rupe 10-Dec-20
Whitey 10-Dec-20
4nolz@work 10-Dec-20
Treeline 10-Dec-20
Glunt@work 10-Dec-20
elkmtngear 10-Dec-20
4nolz@work 10-Dec-20
Will 10-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer 10-Dec-20
Mad Trapper 10-Dec-20
DiRTY MiKE 10-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 10-Dec-20
Whitey 10-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 10-Dec-20
Glunt@work 10-Dec-20
TD 10-Dec-20
4nolz@work 10-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 10-Dec-20
'Ike' (Phone) 10-Dec-20
Thornton 10-Dec-20
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From: StickFlicker
23-Nov-20

StickFlicker's Link
Since we no longer have a community forum, hopefully it is alright to post this here since it may be of interest to many bowhunters as well. Biden is proposing that Americans must choose to either turn-in their semi-auto rifles to the government or register them and pay a $200 fee/tax. Below is an article specifically on this topic. THE LINK TO THE LEFT IS TO BIDEN'S ACTUAL CAMPAIGN PAGE LISTING ALL OF THE GUN LAWS HE PLANS TO PASS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE:

Probing the Cost of a Biden Gun Tax by Mitch Kokai November 19, 2020 at 5:33 am

Stephen Gutowski of the Washington Free Beacon explores the potential price tag of one of Joe Biden’s stated policy goals.

American gun owners could face tens of billions of dollars in new taxes to keep the guns they already own under Democrat Joe Biden’s gun ban and tax plan.

At least 20 million rifles and 150 million ammunition magazines would be caught up in the sales ban and registration scheme Biden touted on the campaign trail, according to a National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) report. The new taxes would cost Americans more than $34 billion, according to a Washington Free Beacon analysis.

NSSF told the Washington Free Beacon the sheer number of affected guns and magazines could pose a significant problem for Biden’s gun-control plans.

“I think if [Biden and his team] were smart, they would look at those numbers and get an idea of where America stands on gun ownership and gun rights,” NSSF spokesman Mark Oliva said.

Biden wants to ban new sales of AR-15 rifles and similar firearms as well as any ammunition magazine holding more than 10 rounds—sizes that come standard on most modern rifles and handguns. He would pay some owners to surrender the affected guns they legally own and force everyone else to register the guns under the National Firearms Act. The proposal would require owners to pay a $200 tax stamp for each item.

The report said the kinds of rifles Biden wants to ban made up nearly half of all rifles produced in 2018. Oliva said the group’s estimates may actually be undercounts. While NSSF used the latest Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives manufacturer reports, those only cover up to 2018, and Oliva said AR-15s have continued to grow in popularity since then.

“That manufacturer’s report comes out [with] an 18 to 24-month delay,” Oliva said. “That number is probably significantly higher now.”

From: Ambush
23-Nov-20
I’m sure Biden and Trudeau can’t wait to get together on this. ( under UN guidance of course)

From: Roper
23-Nov-20
Let’s do like BLM, LBGQT and others and take it to the streets and show them we won’t stand for it. Oh yeah, to do that you need balls.

From: Drnaln
23-Nov-20
The country will get what they voted for. Vote anybody but Trump....Wait til Harris takes over!

From: JohnMC
23-Nov-20
I would assume the Supreme Court would quickly find a $200 stamp infringes on people’s right to keep and bear arms.

From: Pat Lefemine
23-Nov-20
Yes, until SCOTUS is 17 justices all appointed by Harris and Schumer.

My question to the never trump guys on this site: are you happy now?

From: Woods Walker
23-Nov-20
Molon labe.

From: Drnaln
23-Nov-20
They will blame everything on Trump for 4 years. Then the sheep will vote Democrat again because they get promised more Free Stuff!

From: Roper
23-Nov-20
I bet they will do just like they did to cigarettes. Tax ammo and guns so much you can’t afford them. When you run for president on shutting down the NRA and banning certain guns and win you know things are not going to be good.

From: GhostBird
23-Nov-20

GhostBird's embedded Photo
GhostBird's embedded Photo
What guns? I got rid of ALL my guns years ago... I am only into archery now. ;)

From: Woods Walker
23-Nov-20
Free and fair elections are OVER with kiddies, thanks to mail in vote fraud. One of the biggest casualties of the Chinese COVID is going to be our republic. China (and the Democrats) have done to this country what Kruschoff and his A-bombs could only dream of. And we did it to OURSELVES!

Take good and long look at America, because you will not recognize it in 4 years.

From: Brotsky
23-Nov-20
Sure glad I don't own any firearms. Still cry over the boat accident when I lost them all in the river. I guess when the tax man comes for you guys that will be my only saving grace from that unfortunate incident. Be careful out there, I'm sure it can happen to anyone. I only have two bows now and one arrow for each if they are thinking of taxing those too. ;)

From: keepemsharp
23-Nov-20
He can do this without the legislature, just turn it over to ATF. I fear it will create a LOT of honest felons.

23-Nov-20
Firearms will also be in the new “Medicare for all”. You will pay a much higher price if you have firearms in the home. Read the book Atlas Shrugged

From: nmwapiti
23-Nov-20
Now that they have the formula to cheat in elections, nothing is beyond their reach. Civil War is coming if this country even still has enough spine to fight for its existence.

From: Milhouse
23-Nov-20
Woods Walker..... x 2.

From: Matt
23-Nov-20
While Biden's anti-gun agenda is of real concern, my real worry for a few of you is if the new administration increases taxes on tin foil.

From: Michael
23-Nov-20
I will never understand why people are so willing to vote away there freedoms.

From: Knifeman
23-Nov-20
But.. but.. but.. orange man bad! We need to replace him!

From: WVFarrier
23-Nov-20
Something to think about.

Yes he can do it without the Legislature via executive order. Look at Obamacare, the only reason the Supreme court allowed it to stand was that it was a "tax". This will be the same.

Now that the left has successfully figured out how to steal elections, i doubt we will see another Republican President in our lifetimes.

From: Milhouse
23-Nov-20
Michael

Exactly. People standing in line to give away their freedoms. And it's a function of the liberal indoctrination that has been ongoing for years. There is no other way to put it. Kid makes his fingers look like a gun. Expelled. GUNS BAD! Kid eats pop tart into shape of a gun. Expelled. GUNS BAD! Kid mentions gun in school.... parents referred to CPS. GUNS BAD! Indoctrination, plain and simple. I really wish someone would try to argue differently. It amounts to people begging for their rights to be taken away. The sad part is, they have no idea what they're doing, or that once that right is gone, you cannot get it back.

From: Dale06
23-Nov-20
I hope this flames out in the Supreme Court. If it doesn’t, and people pay $200 tax for an AR. That tax will not be a one time or stay at $200.

From: Dale06
23-Nov-20
I hope this flames out in the Supreme Court. If it doesn’t, and people pay $200 tax for an AR. That tax will not be a one time or stay at $200.

From: Milhouse
23-Nov-20
No gun registration in most of the country... how many are willing to give in? Walk up, tail between your legs, ears back, no eye contact, and hand that firearm over on a "buy back", that the gubment never "bought" in the 1st place? Take your pittance, and say, "thank you sir".... how many? Show of hands.

From: StickFlicker
23-Nov-20
"...or did the blind dumb sheep really elect the incoming America hating Commies?"

I don't think the sheep elected America hating Commies as much as they voted out Trump. They didn't want Biden and the Left, they just wanted Trump's personality gone at any cost. If they really wanted the left agenda, we wouldn't have gained seats in the House and (hopefully) held the Senate.

From: Milhouse
23-Nov-20
Might as well let them castrate you on the spot as well.

From: Bowfreak
23-Nov-20
They didn't vote out Trump. They counted enough votes for Biden to beat Trump.

From: Milhouse
23-Nov-20
Bowfreak.... the kind of statement that gets threads "dissapeared" just like a witness against a Clinton.... but agreed.

From: bigswivle
23-Nov-20
All my guns will be stolen New Year’s Eve

From: White Falcon
23-Nov-20
StickFlicker, I think you need to do a fact check on your FAKE NEWS!

From: Treeline
23-Nov-20

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo

From: bigdog21
23-Nov-20
people will cough up the 200.00 even if its every year..

From: Milhouse
23-Nov-20
Amen Treeline.

From: Patdel
23-Nov-20
I foresee lots of tragic boating accidents where firearms sink and get lost.

Thats what happened to mine.

23-Nov-20
I’ve always been told canoes are unstable...

From: cnelk
23-Nov-20
But you gotta have a canoe... luckily I do! :)

From: Treeline
23-Nov-20
Have a canoe. And a raft that has been known to flip a time or two...

From: Rupe
23-Nov-20
“ Yes, until SCOTUS is 17 justices all appointed by Harris and Schumer. My question to the never trump guys on this site: are you happy now?”

Amen Pat. I notice they avoided this thread like the plague too!!!

From: stagetek
23-Nov-20
Get over it already. The vote went the way it went for many reasons. One and done...total LOSER !!

From: bigdog21
23-Nov-20

bigdog21's embedded Photo
bigdog21's embedded Photo

From: 4nolz@work
23-Nov-20

4nolz@work's embedded Photo
4nolz@work's embedded Photo

From: Elkpacker1
23-Nov-20
its going to happen in my life time, scarred for my kids

23-Nov-20
The British tried once, lets see if Americans are up to the task again.. Semper Fi

From: Jaquomo
23-Nov-20
"Get over it already. The vote went the way it went for many reasons. One and done...total LOSER !!"

Interesting how hundreds of thousands of people apparently voted for Biden at the top of the ballot and a straight Republican ticket all the way down. Republicans won this election across the country from House to states to dogcatcher. Hmmm.

Stagetek, per the topic of this thread, you apparently don't agree with the Second Amendment, and that's messed up if you are allegedly a hunter. But with Repubs keeping the Senate and poised to take the House in '22, Biden's damage to the country will be minimal and mostly reversible after he is gone in '24.

From: RK
23-Nov-20
Lou He is not a hunter We will see how it all plays out but it is amazing how many anti 2nd guys are on this site.

From: Scrappy
23-Nov-20
Jaquoma, there is only one huge problem with you statement about Biden being gone in 24. Now that the commies have the formula down there will never be another republican elected president. Everyone keeps say Trump will run again, why in the world would he do that knowing that the dems will always have more votes no matter how many people vote for him.

The second amendment and your guns are such a small problem now that the elections in this country have been done away with.

From: DaleT
23-Nov-20
The sky is falling, the sky is falling....................

From: Ermine
23-Nov-20
That or it could be a good thing for republicans. The country will see how crappy it is for 4 years and go red. The pendulum will swing back hard maybe...

From: Glunt@work
24-Nov-20
It was inevitable. Joe Biden had the fire, the fresh plan, the bold and detailed policy positions that he laid out to the voters day after day in one of the most energetic and exciting campaigns ever pulled off. He took the hardball questions from the press every day and answered them with straight forward, honest, and well articulated messages that resonated with Americans. Coupled with his almost 5 decades of amazing accomplishments in public service, this game was over before it started.

Some can't believe that he beat Obama's and Hillary's vote counts by 20%. Were Obama and Hillary even popular with Democrats? It all makes sense to me. This wasn't the Joe Biden that lost by huge margins to Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis in past Presidential primary election attempts. It was clear to anyone that he was on a different level than the Joe Biden of the past.

From: tkjwonta
24-Nov-20
^^^ thumbs up Glunt. I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist but there's a whole lot of numbers that don't seem to add up. Hopefully we get some truth and transparency eventually, but unfortunately I don't have high hopes.

24-Nov-20
Jaq is right none of this will make through the senate.

From: Bou'bound
24-Nov-20
If anyone is putting their hopes and fears in the hands of any man they are going to be disappointed every time.

24-Nov-20
If you haven’t already, Watch this video on OAN. Prepare to pissed

https://www.oann.com/retired-air-force-general-warns-of-cia-software-hacking

From: nmwapiti
24-Nov-20
Pelosi has already promised her first new legislation once they take the senate is to introduce a bill forbidding purging of state voter rolls. It already takes 2 national election cycles thanks to Bill Clinton. The cheat is just ramping up. The Georgia senate seats will be the next example.

From: Barty1970
24-Nov-20
Socialism works well until you run out of other people's money #VoteEarlyVoteOften

From: Bowfreak
24-Nov-20
Even the ignorant left should be concerned at the ridiculousness of our election process. Just like when when Harry Reid killed used the nuclear option, it eventually bit the left on supreme court nominees. The republicans can use their same road map to fix future elections. They probably won't but I would love it if they started playing on the level of the left.

24-Nov-20
Could someone within the GOP get the Supreme Court to suspend 'states rights' as to the coming Georgia election? Many feel that election is already being undermined. Need at least one Rep. but better if both as Romney tends to be a turncoat. Molon Labe....3x; WoodsWalker.

From: BTM
24-Nov-20
Amazing how many firearms have ended up at the bottom of the sea due to boating "accidents." That must be the reason that ocean levels are rising!

From: bigswivle
24-Nov-20
The day government decides to go knock on doors and take people’s guns is a day I hope we never see

From: Woods Walker
24-Nov-20

Woods Walker's embedded Photo
Woods Walker's embedded Photo
We're about at the last one...........

24-Nov-20
Woods Walker...I, and MANY others, have your same thoughts! We could easily have a modern-day Lexington and Concord! I will pay no such thing as a tax on my legal rights!

From: kokosing
24-Nov-20
If we lose the 2nd. amendment we will lose the first amendment too.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
Does anyone here actually know what it takes to remove the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution? If yes, did you seriously think the new President is going propose we remove the second amendment? Seriously?

If memory serves, I believe we had a Democrat President and Congress in 2008. I think the Supreme Court was considerably more liberal then too. I don’t remember the government coming to get my guns. Deep breath.

It’s the same ole NRA fear tactic drum beat every time there is an election. There are checks and balances in the constitution and they have never been more in favor of the right in our lifetimes.

Calm down...there are systems in place to vet votes and the election. If there was widespread fraud it will be brought to light...I mean Rudy and Sidney are on the job. If there is evidence then bring it in front of the court. So far that has not happened regardless of what Newmax, OAN, the American thinker, gateway pundit, or any of those FAKE NEWS websites.

Civil war...really? Some of you are actually ready to bear arms against some of your family, friends, neighbors? I mean actually look them in the eye and shoot them? Woods Walker goes to this every time. Unbelievable...

Pat- to answer your question...YES

Rupe- maybe some of us we’re waiting for the grieving process to be completed. Maybe some of the bowhunters who voted against Trump didn’t feel like sticking the finger in the eye of fellow bowhunters.

I promise all of you that should the new administration come for all of OUR guns, abolish private ownership of everything (socialism), and become a communist dictatorship in the next 4 years we will be fighting on the same side.

Again, deep breath.

From: woodguy65
24-Nov-20
"The day government decides to go knock on doors and take people’s guns is a day I hope we never see."

The Democrats are smart enough to realize they cant do that. By doing this "tax", they outcome is the same - they take your guns away or grow Government on the backs of gun owners - win win. They can still say "We dont want to take your guns" this is just legislation designed for the safety of all Americans, wink wink. If you don't pay the tax per gun - per magazine (that would be in the thousands for some of us), then you are in instant felon. This idea has been floated out by democrats for a decade. They have tried implementing parts of it in some States. There is also insurance that will eventually need to be purchased by the gun owner as well.

Clearly - this will help curb gun violence and murders across the nation almost instantly. I bet we see the Chicago daily gun shootings go from 40 per day to 1 or 2 per month as a result.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
“I will pay no such thing as a tax on my legal rights.”

Don’t you pay sales tax on guns and ammunition you bought?

24-Nov-20

altitude sick's embedded Photo
altitude sick's embedded Photo
Ksflatlander, I think he meant paying for the 2nd time.

KS. Please read from their own playbooks. They move the ball slowly. What was crazy Bernie talk 4 yrs ago is now part of their platform. 10 years from now what you think is unimaginable will be their platform. Like redistribution of 401s and all retirements into social Security, why should some have a better retirement than others. Read up on Marxists and Saul Alinsky They say if it takes 100 yrs they still win.

France, Spain, England all at different times ran the whole world.

We are following them into meekness.

.

From: OneBooner
24-Nov-20
Ryan- if it comes to that and you would have to be on our side, no-one will trust you. You will have to fight your battles alone or with other like minded liberals

From: stealthycat
24-Nov-20
if Biden gets a gun ban pushed, he'll just create 75 million criminals most gun owners won't turn them in

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
Altitude sick- have you read that book from cover to cover?

From: Rupe
24-Nov-20
Ryan, by then it will be too freaking late. If you voted for Biden you’re an idiot. And that’s putting it kindly. And guns aren’t the single issue. There’s energy, health care, taxes, religious liberty, packing the Supreme Court, adding Puerto Rico as a state, and a host of other things the Left will be he’ll be hell bent on destroying. You voted for the destruction of America. And your promise of, “if they do as they promised (yes that is what they promised) then I will be on your side...” is ridiculous. By then it’ll be too late and we sure as hell won’t want the sellouts who got us into the mess add their lunacy to the fight.

As to your civil war question. Hell yes, without blinking an eye.

From: 3rd Degree
24-Nov-20
Regardless of the steps, the end result is that they do not want the citizens to be armed, period. They have come right out and said so, clear as day.

It amazes me that some people still try to say that is not true. Look at Cuomo and the safe act.

Our government IS becoming tyrannical. NY state government IS tyrannical.

Tyranny IS the reason for the 2nd.

Without transparent elections, we have lost the Republic. There is evidence of fraud, many times over. Most opinion networks (news is factual, not opinions), use lies and propaganda to sway/brainwash people. This doesn't fit their agenda, so they say their is no evidence. So the steeple believe it. Anyone ever hear of a guy named Hitler. This country is headed down that path. AOC wants to start amassing a list of Trump supporters to be dealt with? This is just the beginning. They have gotten away with so much, they feel they are untouchable and can do whatever they want!

Look up "the great reset" on YouTube.

These pandemic rules are a test to see how well we will listen to their anti constitutional laws!

I will do what it takes to keep the great Republic in the hands of the People.

Call me whatever you want, but the fact is my eyes are open and I can see for myself. Looks like most on here, can as well.

From: Bake
24-Nov-20

From: KY EyeBow
24-Nov-20
My fingers are crossed for the people of Georgia to elect 2 Republican US Senators. If that happens, Biden's wishes go nowhere!

From: HDE
24-Nov-20
"A man's rights rest in three boxes. The ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box" ~ Frederick Douglas, used in the fight against Jim Crow.

Government was overstepping its bounds then just like they are now. The perceived popularity of socialism was on the rise then, just like it is now.

Only a fool would think things could not escalate to a condition similar to April 12, 1861 at 4:30 in the morning. It is our duty to do everything we can to prevent something like that from happening because the body count would be in the millions. Americans are a very passionate people...

24-Nov-20

altitude sick's embedded Photo
altitude sick's embedded Photo
No KS, I used the app “Audible” I wouldn’t want it on my bookshelf.

These are the types on my bookshelves

From: Will
24-Nov-20
Wait. Hold up here. Are all you guys finally admitting that voter fraud wasn't a thing (you know, since there is about zero evidence of it and the president has been, to put it nicely, obliterated, in court... No, excoriated in court, regarding that issue) and that the other guy actually won this election?

Frankly, that's the biggest thing I learned on this thread. Cool!

So, we can move forward as a nation. This is actually good. People are worried about a policy. Frankly, if the policy sucks, the SCOTUS ultimately will hear a case on it and come to a conclusion. The SCOTUS is basically the Federalist Society now. So... You guys can relax.

The civil war talk, to me, is scary as hell. Why? Because if anyone here truly believes that literally anything in the year 2020 in the United States of America is so bad that killing people is the right answer, frankly, you have been radicalized by your chosen media bubble and need to consider how to step back and assess your radicalization and it's potential impact. Because it's impact isn't good for you, or anyone else.

Pissed that your guy lost? Sure. I get that. But again, if you believe anything in 2020 America is so bad that killing people makes sense... Sorry, you are, absolutely, literally, wrong. And also have been radicalized. Dont hate the messenger. Again, if you think anything in 2020 America is worth killing folks, you are wrong.

Do I worry Biden's gun policies will have a huge negative impact on me and remove my ability to own guns? No. Then again, I live in MA, so by most standards Biden's plan would be looser than what I'm used to. For hunting or home defense, I'm good. Even with MA's "restrictive" gun laws.

So, IF (which is a BIG question), every single Biden proposal RE guns came to it's absolute exact conclusions, would that mean I'm unable to protect my home, or go hunting? No.

Carry on.

From: Glunt@work
24-Nov-20
If the left gets the Senate they certainly may go for some terrible stuff they want but they don't say out loud too often.

My immediate issues are the things they aren't shy about going for. The things they campaign on and are proud to push are bad enough.

From: Tundra
24-Nov-20
You already paid taxes on your firearms when you purchased them. That would be double tax. "Under no circumstances give up your guns." A quote similar to Hillary's to Biden "Don't concede under any circumstances".

From: White Falcon
24-Nov-20
Get over it trump lost it.

From: Patdel
24-Nov-20
Jaqoumo, I might have it wrong, but I think the senate is still up for grabs, depending on the Georgia runoff in January?

If the democrats take it, its basically a tie with Kamala Harris as the tie breaker?

The dems in control of everything worries me. SCOTUS is then all that stands in their way.

Maybe I am wrong.

From: Jaquomo
24-Nov-20
The Senate is still up but looking stronger for at least one Republican. If Dems get it and don't end the filibuster, the crazy s#it won't get through because moderate Dems learned a lesson in this election. Crazy Left doesn't play well across most of America.

I don't believe there was enough fraud to toss this election, even though Trump only lost the Electoral College by 80,000 votes, according to the New York Times. What turned this election was a four year full-court press by the entire media/technology cabal to destroy Trump. It was a coordinated effort and it worked to turn low-information voters. Then the Dems did a great job of ballot seeding and harvesting, which brought votes from hundreds of thousands of soft-brained cretins and illegals who wouldnt have voted otherwise.

And even with all that, he barely lost, and Republicans won all up and down ballot.

From: Jaquomo
24-Nov-20
Let's also remember that redistricting happens next year, and Republicans are in charge of the majority of states.. This, alone, will swing the House back in 2022.

From: midwest
24-Nov-20
"Again, if you think anything in 2020 America is worth killing folks, you are wrong."

Do you think it's worth killing any of the radical left "folks" that might want to burn or loot your property or do you just go for the leg?

From: Ken Taylor
24-Nov-20
Absolutely everything I stand for and believe in is being attacked on every front both by government or by some sort of "new society" groups or other.

This extreme left wing ridiculously politically correct western world we live in now makes one glad to be in the winter of their life.

From: Skippy
24-Nov-20
Midwest, if the left comes to my place with the intention to loot, burn or in anyway harm me or mine they will find out in a hurry what I’m capable of!

From: Grey Ghost
24-Nov-20
Can you guys imagine all the Chicken Little hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing that would be on the CF right now? JTV's head would be exploding, Spike Bull would be posting ridiculous conspiracy theories. NvaGivUp would be proudly proclaiming he still hasn't given up....well...except on the Bowsite, sadly. Guys like Mike in CT, Bluedog, JJ, Genejocky and a whole host of others, would all be contributing with their own slice of wit and wisdoms.....ah, the good old days.... ;-)

Matt

From: LBshooter
24-Nov-20
And Joe Bama gun control efforts are going to stop criminals how? As always, liberals gun laws do zero for curbing gun crimes and yet they continue to try bans etc... An excuse to disarm the population and I feel it will never go do to the unfairness to the poor. Funny how liberals always want fairness when they are fight against republicans, and they always want the country to come together when they take over power. The amount of 4473's that are out there would take a entire new arm of government to go through to see who owns what, never going to happen, and the Supreme Court is pretty clear on the AR -15, it popular and common in use therefore protected. Every so often the liberals need to be t the helm to remind the stupid folk of why they shouldn't vote for them. Get ready for everything to go up, cost of bullets, guns, gas, food, etc... It's going to be another four years of watching Joe Bama blaming the trump administration for anything bad that happens and take credit for any good that might fall on him. Trump 2024 is going to happen and Joe Bama is going to be the reason.

From: BW
24-Nov-20
I like this site better than leatherwall. Someone would have already had there nut hairs twisted about this post, and it would be shutdown. Keep it going guys.

From: BC
24-Nov-20
Will, judging from what we witnessed all summer it appears the left are the ones who have no problem looting, torching and killing. Apparently they have no issue inflicting violence on Americans who do not share their ideology.

From: 4nolz@work
24-Nov-20
BW Politics arent allowed on LW-it makes peoples nut hairs twist on an archery site.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
You alleged the largest conspiracy (# of people involved which would require both democrats and republicans) in the history of the U.S. with the most at stake (our democracy) but say proving it is impossible. Oh how convenient. I think they generally call those things “conspiracy theories.”

From: Stix
24-Nov-20
There are people out there that are in such an uproar that the can't live their daily lives without high anxiety over Biden, Harris, Schumer etc.

I'm not concerned about any of this because God is and will always be on His throne.

I pray Biden does well for our country. Conspiracy theories are the work of satan.

From: Milhouse
24-Nov-20
For those of you generally "unconcerned", because you do not own such firearms that are on "the list".... realize getting these firearms is just the start. It's dominoes after that. Then the rest of your rights, that are only really protected by the 2nd Amendment. And some of you will have some clever catch phrase to thow out there, but if you don't stand up for your rights now, and just watch them get trampled and taken away, without so much as a whimper.... you are the problem in this country.... as much as any whacko leftist.

From: 4nolz@work
24-Nov-20
Stix can you imagine what would have happened if Trump won?

From: Jaquomo
24-Nov-20
Stix, God was on his throne in 1939 when Hitler was raging and murdering millions.

24-Nov-20
Throw the socialist/dem hunters out of your hunting camps and off from your farm, ranch and hunting land, I did. Time to toughen up, sticking together is not working.

From: Stix
24-Nov-20
God allows evil to exist. Even Judaism recognizes that fact. Good and God's justice and reign will always prevail.

From: Shiloh
24-Nov-20
Things haven't gotten bad enough yet. Too many in this country, myself included, are way too comfortable. When things start getting really uncomfortable for those of us that spend a lot of time on this forum things will change.

24-Nov-20
Biden is the least of my worries....He won't make a full term...This is all about Harris!

Besides, the Dem's are going to save us all...Lol

From: Rupe
24-Nov-20
“ Conspiracy theories are the work of satan.”

Waiting for that Bible verse. And while you’re looking read the book of Esther and Haman’s conspiracy to kill the Jews.

From: Stix
24-Nov-20
God does not "grade on a curve". If Hitler had been responsible for 1 killing, he would have been just as guilty in God's eyes, but if he repented and turned to Jesus as his salvation, he would have been equally welcomed into God's kingdom. He still would have faced justice here on earth, and without a doubt would have faced the death penalty by the world court.

Whether killing millions of Jews, one person in a robbery, or wishing the death of one person on the highway that just cut you off, God sees all sin equally, but will still welcome anyone in his kingdom that repents and puts faith in Jesus. That is the Good News,.... we all fall short, but are cleaned white as snow by Jesus on the cross, taking God's wrath for us. All you have to do is believe in your heart that this is true.

Now back to Biden, If he is successful uniting America, all are successful.

From: TrapperKayak
24-Nov-20
Roper, the only LGBQT that have balls are those with 'em surgically attached...

From: elkmtngear
24-Nov-20
Trump's 2024 Campaign Slogan (after 4 years of living in squalor and anarchy)..."Did you Miss me Yet"?

From: South Farm
24-Nov-20
Nothing to add other than JESUS COME QUICK!

From: Glunt@work
24-Nov-20
Uniting America? Thats a long ways off. I want no part of what being "united" looks like to the left.

America has been sliding left for decades. I can't compromise if it means going farther. If they want to "unite" by coming back the right direction I am willing to compromise and work together. I dont need everything on my list and I'm willing to compromise with regards to how fast we steer back to the right. Thats not what they have in mind.

From: Skippy
24-Nov-20
Amen!

From: Rupe
24-Nov-20
Great post Trax!!!

From: keepemsharp
24-Nov-20
He says his cabinet will be "diverse". That would mean 50% Republican?

From: 4nolz@work
24-Nov-20
maybe in the spirit of transparency they'll televise one of those post birth abortions they stood and cheered for, all the while talking about their Catholicism.

From: drycreek
24-Nov-20
To the left, uniting America means do what we want to do.

To the left, compromise means do what we want to do.

If anyone has evidence to the contrary, please present it. At least 50% of this country DOES NOT WANT liberal rule. Those of you who do should be happy, but I’m betting the sweet taste in your mouth will sour over the next four years. The amount of money the libs want to give away has to come from somewhere ! Guess what, it won’t be from “the rich” as they always promise. The middle class will still be bearing the burden as always, and the bastards that you saw rioting in the streets will be getting the paychecks.

From: Huntcell
24-Nov-20

"CHANGES TO THE COMMUNITY FORUM We have made the decision to remove the former 'community' forum, along with all previous discussions associated with it. This decision was not made lightly, but it was necessary in an attempt to position Bowsite for upcoming changes. In the coming weeks, we will be communicating those changes to you. We appreciate your understanding.

Pat Lefemine"

was alot longer than 'coming weeks'.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
Q...Q is that you?

From: Heat
24-Nov-20
So let me get this straight, some of you voted for him, assuming he was full of shit in the first place?

From: Jaquomo
24-Nov-20
Like Obama was going to unite the country....until he was elected. When John McCain and Lindsey Graham went in to meet with him and discuss common ground, his reply was, "I won, John. Elections have consequences"

And then he proceeded to stick a meat cleaver through the middle of the country, resulting in Republican takeover of all of Congress, and the creation of Donald Trump. Same thing will happen this time...

From: Shiras42
24-Nov-20
Trump 2024 campaign slogan...HDYLMK!!!

From: TD
24-Nov-20
Didn't take a country wide conspiracy. Only took a few already well placed criminals in those bastions of integrity such as Philly, Detroit, etc. Cities so corrupt, states so corrupt it's common to see their elected officials go to prison rather than make it to the next crooked election.

Mankind...... is corrupt. What really bothers me is so many who were trusted to be watchdogs for such evil have willfully and blatantly ignored it. Many actually complicit in it. It's time to make sure those wither and die as all rotten fruit does. They've pizzed away their only real value.... integrity, trust. They have lost their only common public value in a fit of vanity and greed.

This is and has been a blatant attack on America and on hard working Americans. The legacy media is owned by huge corporations. A huge chunk of America work for these global corps, owned by them. At one time big corps, big tech, etc. were AMERICAN corps, but no more. They are now literally global corps and owe no allegiance to America as most find America and it's freedoms being mostly in their way. They don't care that China screws us over, nor has prison camps and implemented genocide with no regard for human rights nor environmental impacts. But they make cheaper stuff for global corps and make larger profits for them. So.... crickets. Those who COULD make the largest impact and investigate facts and engage in just a bit of honesty are already owned by those who benefit from the narrative. Literally pro Globalist and anti-American. America First is their biggest enemy.

I see leftist bristle when anti-American actions are pointed out, patriotism challenged. But you can't have it both ways, claim they are patriotic with words, but anti-American and pro Globalist in action. Freedoms, Rights, Constitution, Rule of Law, the foundation and essence of America.... waved away. America means nothing to them. We have seemingly just elected a man who has been bought and paid for by China, Ukraine, Russia and Lord knows who all else. We have the receipts actually.....millions and millions in literal pay to play quid pro quo deals over decades.....move along, nothing to see here.... such patriots....

They are documented and proven liars, especially of the last few years, wrong at every turn. And proven willing to cheat (if not for double standards they'd literally have none at all....) and now are OK with stealing if they get what they want. Media used to investigate things that didn't smell right. Now they do as their handlers tell them. Bury what smells. If nothing else we can thank Trump for one thing.... exposing and even giving it a name.... Fake News. It will be engraved on their tombstones....

Time to get some new trees in the ground. And thin out the rotten ones as they die by their own dishonesty. Some folks are OK with being lied to day after day, (for your own good of don'cha know...) many are not. This fight is just beginning.

From: Woods Walker
24-Nov-20

From: Woods Walker
24-Nov-20
TD X1000!!! Well stated sir!

From: Drnaln
24-Nov-20
When John McCain and Lindsey Graham went in to meet with him and discuss common ground, his reply was, "I won, John. Elections have consequences" I hated Obama til this day after that comment! POS...Most Racist president in history!

From: No Mercy
24-Nov-20
I was waiting for KSFlatlander to bring his leftist opinion here. No, they won't be able to touch the second amendment, but they sure will touch everything else. Tax all guns and ammo to the point where it can't be afforded by anyone but themselves and the other wealthy. Sue manufacturers until guns become so expensive almost no one can afford them. Outlaw any mags capable of holding more than ten rounds. See how this works? The second amendment won't be infringed but everything that relates to it will. I'm sorry, but if you are a Biden voter you shouldn't be a gun owner. Period. Put it back in the box-pay your $200 and have it destroyed...you are to stupid to own it.

From: Stix
24-Nov-20
Obama won some favor with me after this:https://www.foxnews.com/politics/obama-takes-a-swig-with-black-scholar-white-cop

Trump would never do this

From: Ziek
24-Nov-20
"Only took a few already well placed criminals in those bastions of integrity..."

Like almost ALL of Trump's appointees, and Trump himself.

"They've pizzed away their only real value.... integrity, trust."

Like all of the lies that come out of Trump's mouth. Or the fact that he is making extra millions on his properties based solely on his office.

"...owe no allegiance to America..."

As if if Tump doesn't have investment ALL over the world.

"...claim they are patriotic with words, but anti-American ... in action."

Pretty easy to be patriotic by standing for the National Anthem, but to answer the call when your nation asks, you suddenly develop bone spurs. And when asked about that reply something like, 'What, do you think I'm stupid? I'm not going to be drafted.'

"Freedoms, Rights, Constitution, Rule of Law, the foundation and essence of America..."

Like the right for EVERYONE to vote, and accepting the will of the people? There has NEVER been a bigger POS in the White House, NEVER.

"Some folks are OK with being lied to day after day..."

They're called Trump supporters.

From: DMTJAGER
24-Nov-20
Bottom line is this we sportsman are SCREWED. EOS. Bidan will be POTUS for the first 25-26 months then will either step down or be removed and Karmel will be POTUS for the next 10 years. Now the the demRATs have succeeded in using voter fraud to steal this election and over the next 2-4 years they will perfect the fine art of voter fraud and will use voter fraud to flip enough purple states blue to take back the house and the demRATs will have complete control of the entire federal government FOREVER and with the demRATs in charge once again of the office of ATGOTUS and the FBI there will be absolutely no one left to stop them. It is all over for America. We now will FOREVER be a one party federal government like the state governments of IL, CA, NYS, OR, WA, MI etc. And America will become a socialist tyranny. I predict the fallowing will occure in the next 10 years: >Abolish the electoral collage >Abolish the 2nd amendment >Increase the number if justices on the SCOTUS so the demRATs will pack it and then their control of all three branches of our government will be ABSOLUTE, complete an forever. >Amnesty, citizenship and voting rights for all 12-14 million illegal's currently living in America giving the demRATS a super super utterly insurmountable voting majority >Unlimited immigration of all nations to America >Green new deal will become law >Reparation's for slavery >Massive new taxes for the middle class >States rights will cease to exist and federal law will be absolute <>All rights lost under the Covid-19 PLANdemic will remain gone forever and the governors of states will be able to literally mandate law as they see fit without a legislative process. <>10-15% unemployment and 1-1.5% growth will return same as under nObama and bidan. <>All hunting and target shooting on federal land will be banned severe penalties for states that continue to allow hunting and target shooting on state lands <>Massive taxation and regulation on ammunition <>Banning the sale of all guns, ammo powder and primers on line <>Banning of all powder, lead bullets and primers period. And this is only a PATIAL list. Ronald Reagan once said America is NEVER more than ONE generation form loosing their freedom. That generation just took control of our government.

From: Stix
24-Nov-20
Wow! That's alot of worrying. How can you sleep at night?

From: Woods Walker
24-Nov-20
"No, they won't be able to touch the second amendment...."

I disagree. After they stack the court, they'll reverse the Heller decision and then they can ban whatever they damn well want, because IT ALREADY HAPPENED IN CHICAGO in the 1980's and is why we got the Heller judgement in the first place, and with a stacked court it'll be forever. One day you were a legal gun owner, and the next you were a felon. If these socialist bastids CAN do it, they WILL. They can't totally control us until the disarm us.

From: Ziek
24-Nov-20
"Bottom line is this we sportsman are SCREWED."

Well, I don't know. After all Biden named one of his sons Hunter. And Trump named one of his Baron. Maybe we should read something into that. ;-)

From: Grey Ghost
24-Nov-20
Gosh, a good dose of partisan hyperbole never gets old.

Matt

From: South Farm
24-Nov-20
I'm getting real sick of having my lunch money taken and getting bounced off the lockers year after year after year. Let's just meet out on the playground and get this crap over with once and for all! Winner take all and loser STFU and go home.

It's the only way short of dying any of us will ever get any peace in this country again..

From: BOWNUT
24-Nov-20
So now is all the looting and rioting done and gone or just not being reported?

From: nmwapiti
24-Nov-20
DMT, I am pretty sure you nailed it. Just wondering when people will say enough.

From: Pat Lefemine
24-Nov-20
I predict this thread gets to 1000 posts. I should have posted this when I was charging the agency for the pop up ads!

From: Grey Ghost
24-Nov-20
Yep, 1000 posts, then it will suddenly vanish for no apparent reason, like the "Flattening the curve" thread.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
24-Nov-20
Phil must be busy this week and not moderating this forum... Good to let it run Pat. Bowhunters need to vent too.

Some folks are OK with being lied to day after day..."

They're called "anyone who votes for politicians, no matter what party".

From: Ziek
24-Nov-20
"After they stack the court..."

You mean after they re-stack it?

From: Thunderhawk
24-Nov-20
Democracy died on election night,,,. I would not get too excited over the DOW, that is going to go also. Funny though the small businesses are getting killed, by all the rules, yet the liberals who all run Wal Mart, and Amazon etc, make money. Funny how the Dems are saying they will help the middle class, not a fat chance we will be taxed to death, yet Bernie Sanders will be able to pay little and make millions........... The Republicans are weak minded......Georgia has lost its mind, followed by PA. Sad for young hard working business. builders like my daughter who will live in a quasi socialist country... The John Kerry's of the world willee make fortunes, the bums will get free bees, and it will be on our backs.

From: WI Shedhead
24-Nov-20
If Ginsburg would have stepped down when she should have 5 years ago, they dems would still have that seat. But like all things with the liberals, it’s about keeping thier old decrepped power hungry hands on thier power

From: Jaquomo
24-Nov-20
Trump didn't stack anything. He filled empty seats. Remember Barry Soetero's famous admonition: "Elections have consequences".

Last time court stacking was attempted was in 1937. FDR was pushing it. It got big bipartisan resistance because Dems then realized if they tried it, it could come back to bite them hard someday.

Dems were a lot smarter then. See: "Harry Reid ends filibuster for judicial appointments..."

From: Woods Walker
24-Nov-20
X2 Jaq

From: Rocky D
24-Nov-20
“I promise all of you that should the new administration come for all of OUR guns, abolish private ownership of everything (socialism), and become a communist dictatorship in the next 4 years we will be fighting on the same side.“

Wow, what absolute ignorance! Where have you been the last fifty years! It’s more like erosion than a landslide.

From: OneBooner
24-Nov-20
Don’t confuse a liberal with facts

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
Rocky- Take it up with Thunderhawk and Rupe. They are the people saying the USA is done.

“Don’t confuse a liberal with facts”. Says the guy with a giant Q on his shirt.

From: Glunt@work
24-Nov-20
Imagine a country where 1/2 the people are mad that a 9 judge court tasked with upholding the Constitution has more than 4 Consitutionalists on it.

From: krieger
24-Nov-20
I will collect the finds from KSFlat , Grey Ghost and the other dude on here that says we have nothing to worry about. I'm not worried at all. I know these 3 gentlemen will provide me with the needed funds to stave off Mr Biden, if it comes to that.....I have confidence in my fellow forum members.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
I already did krieger. I assume you got a Trump check...I did not. Your welcome for my involuntary involvement in Trump’s socialism.

From: krieger
24-Nov-20
Your assumption is wrong. I received no check, apparently I make too much, I am part of the problem. I'm one of those evil , white , hard working folks that are ruining this country...

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
My mistake for assuming. Apologies. However, my general point still stands.

From: Ned
24-Nov-20
The Dems will steal the Senate election in January just like they stole the Presidential one. They have total disregard for our Constitution or sovereignty as a nation. They will draw a line in the sand with sweeping gun laws which will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

From: skull
24-Nov-20
Welcome to Canada , is only the beginning , wait until he’s going to talk to our Prime Minister he will give him more ideas

24-Nov-20
Throw the dem/ socialist/commies hunters out of your hunting camps, hunting does not need them. They are against hunting, and the 2nd Amendment. Anti's by every definition, infiltrating the hunting community to undermine us.

From: Glunt@work
24-Nov-20
The stimulus had 419 House votes and 96 Senate. Trump just signed it. Pretty much everyone in power on both sides gets the blame/credit.

From: Ned
24-Nov-20
In 2017, most recent when data was compiled on gun related deaths, suicide resulted in 6 of 10 gun related deaths out of 39,773 killed by use of a gun, 14,542 were murders. Hardly a reason for all these laws to ultimately confiscate our “assault” weapons. That’s 23,854 suicides, and I’ll just go out on a limb here and suggest an AR 15 wasn’t used in any of those suicides. But Dems don’t care about facts, they’re just bent on creating their idea of some utopia where they have all the power. The ironic thing is, they’ll have to use guns and violence to confiscate the guns ultimately.

24-Nov-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s Link
You could live in OR...Party like a rock star in Portland though, SMH!

From: DL
24-Nov-20

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo

From: Rupe
24-Nov-20
Lmao at DL’s meme

24-Nov-20
I think court stacking is a really bad idea. It's not sustainable. The party in charge flip-flops. The SCOTUS would end up larger than the House. People don't die fast enough.

From: drycreek
24-Nov-20
Glunt, don’t confuse a lib with facts, they like fiction much better.

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
I have not started any businesses. However, I do have many employees that depend on me along with their families. In essence, I do have to meet payrolls by making sure we have work. Marketing is part on my responsibilities. If I don’t bring in work then me and my employees will beholden to supply and demand. In addition, my wife does run a small business that was started by my brother in law.

What’s your point? Since I don’t own a company then I shouldn’t or can’t have an opinion? Do you have a uterus?

From: KSflatlander
24-Nov-20
I understand your point ground hunter. Sorry for the itchy trigger finger. Stay well.

From: TrapperKayak
24-Nov-20
bownut.'..so now is all the looting and rioting done and gone or just not being reported?' The Dem crybabies got their way so they are placated for a term... can you imagine the tantrum inspired chaos that would have transpired and consumed middle America had they not cheated their way into the White House? Mass destruction would have ensued. But they got their little baby ways for now... just for now.

From: Surfbow
25-Nov-20
"Pissed that your guy lost?"

I love it when democrats drop this one, since historically they are the WORST losers AND the WORST winners...such jackassery

From: MF
25-Nov-20
How would the government know who has what guns? We don't have gun registration yet or do we? I was under the impression the background check did not specify what gun you were interested in and if you actually purchased it. I thought I also read somewhere the background check was not kept on file.

25-Nov-20
A fantasy would be if liberals could be made to live with their policies. Instead when they have ruined their current location. They spread their cancer to other cities and states.

Can you imagine if they didn’t have the rest of the country to bail out their failed policies.

If we tried an experiment and they all moved to several states. How long would it last. They would have no electricity, food, or other basic essentials. And with no way to protect themselves, the mobs would take what little the government allowed them to keep.

How long before they are eating their pets and zoo animals.

Couldn’t happen?

Venezuela was once one of the most prosperous nations

Still not convinced. Name one prosperous socialist nation. Not just getting by, driving a subcompact car living in a government approved shoe box sized house nation. But a truly free, prosperous nation.

Another minor little detail. In every one of those successful socialists countries, only the very rich oligarchs can afford to hunt.

25-Nov-20
Throw them out of hunting camps!!!

From: Bowboy
25-Nov-20
I was at the drivers license office yesterday and had to wait in my car. I was listening to a talk radio show and they stated a poll was done and 45% of dems didn't know about the Hunter Biden issues. They stated 9% would have changed thier vote. I think it's because main stream media is one sided. If one of the Trumps would have done this it would be all over the news!

From: bigdog21
25-Nov-20
MF... NO they dont know who has guns. thats why they would want a tax stamp for automatice guns. if cought with out it shooting a auto you would become a felone charged fined and lose all your guns forever.. you could get away with not paying a tax then you mite not. are you willing to roll the dice? are just pay the stupid tax. and go on with life worry free.

From: bigdog21
25-Nov-20
BY the way THE BRITISH ARE HERE thay finally found there way in. TAX.TAX.TAX. CONTROLL.CONTROLL.CONTROLL.

25-Nov-20
Big Dog as soon as you pay that tax, guess who knows exactly who has how many SEMI auto rifles. Then the during the confiscation stage, 8, 10 years From now Your on their list.

Ask the Aussies, Brits, French, Cubans, Russians, Chinese, North Koreans. How many Semi Autos their govt allows them to own.

From: Will
25-Nov-20
You guys remember that the GOP literally refused to seat Obama judges - not just Myrick Garland, but lower court vacancy's too. Trump got to fill (err, stack) judges through out the judiciary NOT because the last admin didnt try, but because the GOP literally wouldn't even give appointee's a shot.

Do I think D's will increase the number on the SCOTUS? No.

From: Mad Trapper
25-Nov-20
For all of you guys who voted for Biden, I have some ocean front property here in Pennsylvania for sale. I will make you a great offer. Trust me.

From: 4nolz@work
25-Nov-20
Will- check back on what Harry Reid did to change SC confirmations forever.The GOP finally grew a set of balls after kissing ass for decades I was so glad when the crybabny John Boehner was gone.

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-20
Missouribreaks- do you provide scripts for your hunting camp buddies so they know what to say? I’ll bet the diversity of people and conversations at your campfire is truly something to behold. I guess I’ll never know. So disappointed.

FYI- I hear Walmart is having a black Friday special on backslappers...2 for 1. Its never to early to plan for next years camp.

From: Bake
25-Nov-20
There's the liberal rally cry of diversity. I don't know what's wrong with the idea of sharing a camp with a person I'd actually get along with. . . . By all means, maybe I should invite some antifa idiot that can argue and scream at me. THAT will be fun

From: Orion
25-Nov-20
Ks i'm surprised you would mention a campfire on here after your illegal one this summer in Colorado. Did they clear you from starting the Cameron Peak fire?

From: Jaquomo
25-Nov-20
Will, you are right about the judge appointees. As Obama pointed out, "Elections have consequences". When you have the presidency and the Senate, and the Senate Majority leader changes the rules for appointments like Harry Reid did, you ram all the judges through with no opposition. And that's what the Dems did.... And it came back to bite them in the ass...

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-20
Since I was not in Colorado when the Cameron Peak fire started nor did I camp within the fire boundary I’m going to say yes I have been “cleared.”

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having “people you get along with” in your camp. It’s that “you” just can’t get along..apparently by self admittance...with other people who may have different perspectives. I think you make the point beautifully Bake.

From: cnelk
25-Nov-20
Its disappointing that some of the 'Leftists' on Bowsite only post on political/controversial threads. Rarely do they contribute the Bowsite theme - which is bowhunting.

From: Jaquomo
25-Nov-20
I have some liberal friends that I get along with, because they have chosen to not wear their politics on their sleeves and itw their tongues with their hatred for conservatives. Some others have left my life by their choice because they can't deal with, as one former friend told me, "the awful truth" of knowing I'm a conservative.

I truly believe most hard core liberals have an emotional disorder. The other low-information voters who vote Dem simply dont know any better because they believe what the mainstream media tells them. I am sitting in a room full of those folks right now.

From: Stix
25-Nov-20
Even if someone would govern from the center, people would be complaining. That's the two-party system of American politics and it sucks. Bring back the Bull Moose Party.

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-20
cnelk- I’m confused. Are you referring to Trax. He’s not a lefty by a long shot.

I don’t understand low information voters either Lou. However, a misinformation voter can do as much or more damage (e.g. QAnon or Antifa) don’t you think?

From: RK
25-Nov-20
As you said Lou....a disorder

From: nmwapiti
25-Nov-20
Gonna be an interesting month.

https://www.oann.com/tech-millionaire-funds-hacking-team-20-election-100-rigged/

From: cnelk
25-Nov-20
No KSflatalnder - just so you’re not confused about it , you’re one of the ones I’m referring to.

From: White Falcon
25-Nov-20
I thought the Market was going to crash If Biden was elected, :as trump said". Fake News trump also said the covid would be over a couple months ago! FAKE NEWS! the has told so many lies and you sheep followed along. REAL NEWS Wonder if you would mind If trump, grabbed your daughter or your wife's P***y I don't think you would. Get over it, the Orange Clown LOST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now rant on with all your FAKE NEWS!

From: Supernaut
25-Nov-20
I'd rather drink gasoline and piss on a campfire rather than share it with anyone that flapped their lips the whole time about politics.

I'm still trying to figure out why there are left leaners on hunting forums, shit stirrers I guess.

Anyhow, hope you all have a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving and luck afield if you're able to get out hunting.

From: Jaquomo
25-Nov-20
Fringe elements like QAnon and Antifa are too small to make an electoral difference. It's Mr. and Mrs. John Q Public who come home from work and turn on the "news" from DNCABC, DNCNN, DNBC, etc.. where 96% of the "news" stories are negative toward Republicans and Trump. Then they pick up the newspaper and read the same slanted garbage where OP-ed masquerades as "news". Then they do a Google search and all the top results are purposely left-slanted. They simply don't know any better.

I'm not making this up. It's all easily verified by independent, unbiased (as much as possible) studies.

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-20
My mistake cnelk. Did you have any recommendations for carbon arrow cutters? I didn’t see your response on the thread I started a couple weeks ago. Also, I think Pat said only about 3% of the visitors post. Are you talking about those people too? Or do you just want to silence/censor me? Wait a minute...that sounds like a Twitter thing.

From: Beav
25-Nov-20
Agree with cnelk! About the only time they contribute is when it is a political thread. Wish they would bring back the community forum as we have lost several great posters on this site that contributed to the bowhunting theme.

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-20
Lou- how do you feel about Newsmax, gateway pundit, American thinker, big league politics exclusive consumers?

Supernaut- agreed. If the person I was hunting with wanted to talk politics all the time...no thanks.

From: cnelk
25-Nov-20
Ksflatlander - do you bowhunt and actually kill anything? Or just troll Bowsite for Wolf and political threads?

From: drycreek
25-Nov-20
Curious to me that most of the guys on here who would gladly give up their guns or pay the “tax” are from states that have already taken most of their gun rights away. They are either used to it or they want us to be just like them.

Bigdog said “just pay the stupid tax” and move on. Five ARS at $200 each, five mags for each AR at $200 each, plus reams of paperwork on each gun and each mag. That’s $6K for those of you who care. That’s three months worth of SS checks. Hard to “move on” from that, especially since I AM NOT THE FRICKIN PROBLEM. My ARs have only ever been pointed at paper, coyotes, and hogs, so it looks a lot like “guilty until proven innocent” from a government who wants to do lots more unconstitutional crap and needs us disarmed to do it. Don’t even try to tell me it will never be done, it has already been done to the Native Americans, the Japanese that were interred in camps during WW II, and the freed slaves after the Civil War. It was tried by the British but they weren’t successful only because they met armed resistance.

Would you pay a speeding ticket today because the government thought you might speed next week ? Would you pay an exorbitant tax on your car after it was paid for just because other people have accidents ? Would you pay a tax on your house because it might catch fire and burn the neighborhood ? (and I’m not talking insurance here, because thatfor your benefit). Y’all need to take your blinders off and look around. The liberals want you to just follow the “leader” no matter where he goes, and right now, and in the future, the libs are destroying this country and dismantling the constitution, with your help evidently.

From: Stix
25-Nov-20
Trumps economic plan was probably the best ever, and Steve Mnuchin a brilliant mind. If the economy wasn't so strong before the virus hit, it would have had much more negative impact on recovery and a depression like economic slump. Trumps supreme court and judicial picks are stellar.

2 things that turned me off on Trump that are overwhelming in case. Not coming clean with the American people on the severity of the virus, citing the possible mass panic. Excuse me, I'd rather judge it based on true facts. He assumed that Americans, could not make judgement on their own.

And during the racially charged violence and riots around the country, there were peaceful protests outside the White House (after racial issues), which he used military force, to disperse them with tear gas and flash bang munitions, not because of any looming threat, but because he wanted to do a photo op in front of a church with a bible. He doesn't even attend a service on Sundays. The last one is a clear violation of our constitution.

From: KSflatlander
25-Nov-20
I hunt every day I can. Started sitting in a treestand when I was knee high with my dad. Except late in my career, most of my personal time and work time has been in the woods. Kind of my church.

Killing things? Sometimes. I don’t always fill a tag but sometimes. Elk hunting...I don’t even want to talk about it. Strikeout.

However, I do post on threads sometimes. Even start them on occasion. I especially enjoy the threads withba kids first deer and a proud dad posting. That’s what it’s all about.

Now I’m sure you will ask Trax the same questions. However, I know he is a hunter and I wished him luck on his hunts this year. He and I don’t have anything in common politically but he has to be an interesting person to hunt with. Yeah, I’d hunt with him and would love to hear his perspective on many subjects. I might learn something or at least understand him better.

But I’m no troll. I’m one of you and there are many more like me. Narrow the coalition down if you want but hunters divided isn’t recommended. Debate and different perspectives...they are welcome IMO.

From: Orion
25-Nov-20
you forgot to mention your love of wolves and having illegal campfires when visiting Colorado

From: ARLOW
25-Nov-20
MOLON LABE

From: Jaquomo
25-Nov-20
Ks, compared to the mass saturation of every other media and tech outlet, the ones you named are microscopic and speak only to true believers. I'm talking about MAINSTREAM media and Google, Facebook, and Twitter.

From: TrapperKayak
25-Nov-20
White Falcon, got no beef with you whatsoever, but consider this: JFK was more of a womanizer and philanderer that just about any other president known, even Billary, how did you feel about him as prez? Just saying... NO ONE is perfect, whoever is may cast the first stone....Carry on and have a good hunting season.

From: Shiras42
25-Nov-20
"But I’m no troll. I’m one of you and there are many more like me."

Agree that you are not a troll, but I am sorry that I don't consider you one of us. You might be a great guy, you might be an a-hole, I don't know and will never know. I don't like a lot of what Trump said or his personality for that matter. But when it came down to it he did what he said he would and his policies and what he did made a real difference. I, for one, am in a better position than I was 4 years ago due to some of these changes. I doubt I will be able to say the same 4 years from now.

From: TD
25-Nov-20
When leftists state how Trump "stacked the courts" the debate is truly over. They either are so poorly misinformed on what court stacking really is, OR they do know and are just fine with spreading the dishonest narrative and lies. Again.... one or the other. Only you know which one. If you honestly don't know you need to stop listening to the liars you've been getting your information from and make an effort to get the facts and honest legal truth. With the state of the corporate media you will not get either made publicly available. Going to have to do your own scouting.

With Trump one could go on with such PROVEN lies like the "court stacking" one above all day. From "he said he supports White Supremacists!" when they know with his very next statement.... nearly in the same breath if not maliciously edited.... he said there was no place in society for White Supremacists. More Fake news. Russians. More Fake News. Ukraine. More Fake News. Vaccine this year is a lie. More Fake news. The list is nearly endless. And brazenly dishonest.

And when caught in the lie, after lie, after intentional lie..... no retraction, no apologies.... just on to the next lie. Not just wrong. Bad human beings. Some evil.

But a person is good with that.... honestly.... if a person is good with such things and feel it's justified somehow, I'd really rather not have them in my camp. Hard to say what BS stories and lies they'd make up about me. For the good of the hunting world and sportsmen everywhere of course....

WRT guns, many STATES require gun registration. Hawaii being one of them. Here in the Peoples Republic you have to apply for a Permit to Acquire at the police dept. Good for one year, but you can buy multiple long guns with it. After the purchase you need to take the firearm back to the police (in a locked case) and register it.

Due to the Chinese Sniffles we now need to make an APPOINTMENT to go in and fill out the Permit to Acquire paperwork. Actually it's worse, a couple years ago they started requiring fingerprinting, birth cert and literally a mug shot to start a file on all gun owners. But I did that last year and they have my file. Don't have to go through that this year.

I called and made my appointment back in Oct. At that time, next available appointment (which I took) is January 6th. Yes, over two months wait. Lord knows what it is now......

Guess it's good to see at least one industry besides some social engineering media/tech companies doing well...... Biden may just wind up selling more guns than Obama, BLM and ANTIFA put together....

And just writing this and having second thoughts..... if you're OK with ANOTHER gun tax (while being clueless as to the real purpose of the first...) and good with banning guns painted black..... no. I don't want you in my camp. Nor do I want to be any part of yours.

From: White Falcon
25-Nov-20
TrapperKayak, glad we can agree to disagree.

From: Stix
25-Nov-20
The American gun culture pisses me off. When I go to the store and can't find ammo for my .308 hunting rifle, and ammo shelves are empty from people hoarding, it says alot. Obsessive, compulsive and anxiety mindset. Not qualities I would want to be in possession of firearms.

Then while at my clubs gun range, we got people coming in with camo fatigues, body armor, magazine holsters all over their body. I call them swat team wannabe's. You wanna join the military,... do it. Don't run around looking like a knucklehead. Firearm owners should be calm members of a peaceful society.

From: Woods Walker
25-Nov-20
"The American gun culture pisses me off, and many should be prohibited from acquiring firearms. "

Then move to a place that doesn't have a 2nd amendment. It'll work for all of us that way.

From: Stix
25-Nov-20
There's no need to hoard ammo. We're battling a virus, not each other.

From: Jaquomo
25-Nov-20
Stix, if the Dems manage to stick ammo with a huge tax like they want to do, you'll understand the reason for volume purchases now.

From: TD
25-Nov-20
Again.... lack of facts, truth and reality WRT the Constitution and such. If the Founders had meant in the 2nd (that's important, it was literally the 2nd thing thing they came up with and all agreed on right after freedom of speech....) "the right to keep and bear arms FOR HUNTING shall not be infringed" that's how they would have written it. It's not how they wrote it and their intent was not only pretty clear, SCOTUS cases have proven out why it was written.

The amount and availability of ammunition someone wants for hunting or any other purpose is totally irrelevant. It's a personal choice and should never be a legal (much less an illegal) regulation or law nor any cause to deny someone of their Constitutional rights. Honestly... it's not even the governments business much less anyone else.

Really? "He has too much ammo..... he shouldn't own a gun....."

good grief....

25-Nov-20
Having read through everyone's comments I feel a certain few should start their 'schooling' by going back in time and beginning with "The Prince"...move on to the Magna Carta...immerse yourself in Hobbes...understand his failure; then graduate to John Locke. Voltaire and Rousseau next then finish with Montesquiou. When you understand them you should understand Lexington/Concord. You might become 'Enlightened'. Gibbon wrote a little something in 1776 that serves to remind me why I stand on the right when it comes to the Constitution!

From: Brian M.
25-Nov-20
If any of you think that a totally Dem leadership won't severely restrict your 2A rights, you're being naive. Look at CT gun laws, a microcosm of the nation. Our state congress, senate and gov are all Dems and probably will be for many years to come. After Sandy Hook, we are no longer allowed to purchase so called "assault rifles", any gun that holds more than ten rounds or mags that hold more than ten rounds. If we (I don't have one, didn't get one before the deadline) already owned one, they didn't "take it", but required that it be registered by a certain date, or become a felon over night. "Assault rifles" and high cap mags cannot be brought into the state, so if you move here for a job transfer, etc, leave your guns behind.

On top of that, we have to have a permit to buy handguns, long guns and ammo. A carry permit ($70 - 5 years) allows purchase of everything legal. Long gun permit ($35?) is for long guns and ammo. Ammo permit ($35?) is for ammo only. It's all about the taxes associated with it. Now, my wife can't fill my stocking with my favorite ammo, because she doesn't have a permit yet. Our only choice in the AR 15 type of firearm are called "Others". Not long guns and not pistols. Legal loopholes, but still a lot of restrictions on those too. Did you think Uncle Joe was kidding when he said just get a double barrel shotgun? That's what you could be limited too if we lose the senate.

25-Nov-20
Stix, the many who should not be able to have firearms you reference will include you if the Dems get their way.

From: White Falcon
25-Nov-20
Fake news.

From: RK
25-Nov-20
Falcón what is the fake news?

From: RK
25-Nov-20

25-Nov-20
Trax...you are spot on as to the Senate.

From: RK
25-Nov-20
Trax, as a loyal Texan I would say that you and your friend have a good start on your ammo supply! :)

May need to get a little more serious with it !

From: Stix
25-Nov-20
WW, I voted for Trump the first time, but his display with military tactics on peaceful protestors in front of whitehouse, a blatant constitutional violation, showed that he needed to be tried for treason. He took the an oath to protect and defend the constitution. I voted libertarian for president, but anyone is better than a someone who openly violated the constitution.

From: nmwapiti
25-Nov-20
If you guys have Instagram you should look into what happened in PA today at the hearings. Trump is going to get another term.

From: Woods Walker
25-Nov-20
Thank you for your service Stix, but you of all people should know that the Constitution that you took an oath to defend CLEARLY states that an individual's right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. It's not up to you or anyone else who should be able to legally possess a firearm.

From: Michael
25-Nov-20
The media and big tech easily accounted for 10 points in our last presidential election.

From: Dutch oven
25-Nov-20
I get tired of Bowsite being allowed to be a political forum. What's wrong with only discussing bows, equipment, and bowhunting?

From: willliamtell
25-Nov-20
How many of you have contacted your congressman or senator INSISTING that they demand an immediate and thorough investigation into the election fraud? How many of you have sent any money to support Trump's legal defense team? How many emails have you sent to friends (not just like minded conservatives either) with what you've found? All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing (Jefferson). Stand up in a meaningful way NOW or forever hold your peace.

From: TrapperKayak
26-Nov-20
^^^Spot on WT

From: Stix
26-Nov-20
WW, I voiced an opinion based on observations I made, whereas the president took actions in direct conflict with his constitutional duties and oath of office.

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
Dutch, I'll say, there's nothing wrong with discussing those things. There are a ton of those threads. But, if you don't want in on this discussion, why are you commenting? You can just move on and not have anything to do with it....

From: Bentstick81
26-Nov-20
The way it is stated,"Democrat joe biden's gun ban & tax plan". I would think that joe would not be able to do this. Banning guns would be unconstitutional, along with the gun tax. obama tried forcing everyone to buy insurance as a tax, and wasn't it declared unconstitutional? I may be wrong.

26-Nov-20
Bentstick, Chief Justice John Roberts saved Obamacare in 2012 by calling it a tax. Congress has the power to tax. Obama lawyers didn’t say it was a tax. Justice Robert’s bailed them out and changed their argument for them. Saving the suit. That’s what pissed off so many conservatives. Judges are not supposed to help rewrite the argument.

26-Nov-20
Stix...the men who gathered on the greens at Lexington and Concord were not soldiers...they were the seeds of a Patriotic battle against an oppressive government. In our Constitution; the military is ONLY an extension of the Executive branch. Checks and balances that you seem to feel place you in a superior position. Congress and SCOTUS have more authority over the military than a president does. You are to be congratulated for the work you did to defend freedom; but that work was done OUTSIDE the borders of our nation, you are not the national guard of the states. Do you recall Kent State? An illegal use of the nation guard and no one was held accountable. Trump will probable not be w/us on Jan. 22, 2021, but Biden should well-heed the warning to uphold the Constitution as determined by SCOTUS. My son and son-in-law served in the military and I am extremely proud of any and all who have served; BUT, having taught politics and history for over forty years, I used to very seriously tell my students that...were my son/son-in-law/any so-called legal authority of any state/federal executive...be sent to my home to ILLEGALLY take from me my property then I would resist. Recall that many in the colonies pled with the King to undo what grieved them...that failed. True freedom lies in the the ability of 'We, the People' to address ILLEGAL government(s).

From: Tonybear61
26-Nov-20
Sydney Powell supposed to launch a barrage of Kraken type lawsuits pointing out all the voter fraud. Starting with GA. Did she become the new CEO of NothingBurger or something??

From: Jaquomo
26-Nov-20
Giving thanks that those of you who voted D didn't get the Senate and lost seats in the House. Because if you had succeeded in electing more of your sickos, this is what we would face:

"A bill currently in three U.S. Congressional subcommittees would increase firearm sales tax to 30% and ammunition tax to 50%. The bill also would, among other things, require all future and current gun owners to obtain a federal license and raise the age from 18 to 21 for purchasing a firearm.

Titled HR 5717 and commonly referred to as the "Gun Violence Prevention and Community Safety Act of 2020," the bill is currently under consideration in three House committees including the House Ways and Means Committee, House Energy and Commerce Committee and the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security.

The bill is some 250 pages long and includes multiple provisions many gun rights advocates find objectionable, including a ban on assault rifles and large capacity magazines and other large ammunition capacity devices."

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
Why are Democrats so afraid of ME having certain firearms? I try to go about my business, and not bother anyone. What good does it do to take away firearms from the law abiding public?

I'll answer for you. It's about controlling the populace. They know certain guns are a great equalizer.... at least to regular "law enforcement", and even as far as limited military action. The people who want COMPLETE CONTROL over our lives, are the ones pushing for these laws..... which no matter how you want to dice it, are unconstitutional. The mind blowing part, at least to myself, is that there are actual citizens (although not nearly as many as "mail in ballots " would have you believe), that beg to be stripped of their second amendment rights. Imagine that. "I currently have no use for that right, and cannot foresee ever needing it..... yeah, take that right away from a certain demographic, that I currently could not possibly care less about. " The thing is.... once that right is gone, there is no standing up for the other rights, some that possibly even a Democrat or two holds dear, that will MOST ASSUREDLY be next on the chopping block. Be careful what you wish for.

From: Stix
26-Nov-20
Happy Thanksgiving all!

From: Thunderhawk
26-Nov-20
I am always buying ammo....I think higher taxes are coming...

From: Ziek
26-Nov-20
Wow! So many confused arguments.

"Bottom line is this we sportsman are SCREWED."

I've done all the hunting I wanted, and that was quite a bit, over the the last 35+ years, and the only firearm I used was an O/U shotgun. Even before that my rifle was a bolt action. And most states have magazine restrictions for big game hunting, anyway. NO ONE is proposing any restrictions on any gun "needed" for sportsmen. Besides, there are probably as many Democrats as Republicans that hunt. So let's not make up arguments that have no merit.

The Second Amendment is a separate issue, and I wish the NRA understood that. While there is possibly some validity to the "this will lead to more restrictions" argument, we are long past the point of an armed overthrow of the US government. When that was written, government troops and citizens had access to the same types of weapons. In fact, most of the Continental Army had to provide their own guns. That day is long gone. While I think it would be pretty cool, I doubt I would be allowed my own fully armed F16. Hey, let's start demanding that. ;-). Our greatest threat is from someone who refuses to transition power after loosing an election, like EVERY OTHER President has done, until now. He did try to fulfill one promise; a rigged election. But he failed there, too.

That leaves self defense, and that is a real concern. But again, it's not mainstream Dems trying to take that away, just like most Republicans are not skin heads. It's been asked 'how many law abiding citizens have misused high capacity magazines?' Well, one could also ask how many have "needed" a high capacity magazine for self defense? In my law enforcement training, we were told that most defensive gunfights involved 3 shots and lasted for about 3 seconds.

As for the Supreme Court; they are supposed to be non-partisan! But it appears that ship has also sailed. Maybe it's time we just admit it and make the bench an even number; either 8 or 10, and let each side fill half the seats with no way to break a tie. Then they would have to come to some consensus. In any case, I would be more comfortable with someone leaning more toward actual individual rights, than religious dogma.

This election wasn't even about conservatives or liberals - it was about a corrupt, self serving, incompetent President who somehow re-made the Republican Party into something divisive; full of lies, and conspiracy theories with no evidence of such. Trump didn't invent the TERM 'fake news', he invented fake news, or at least expanded on it from sources like the Fake Or Xenophobic News Network. He wasn't even a Republican until 2012 when he started making plans for running for President, and had to decide which side he could more easily con. Like it or not, we exist in a world community, with world wide problems. Withdrawing from that is NOT in our long term best interest. It's not even in our short term best interest. We likely would still have a Republican President if it weren't for Trump. When you have a cancer, sometimes you have to cut deeply to get clean margins in order to heal.

Besides, Biden is going to be too busy trying to re-establish a responsible government, getting incompetent, corrupt, Trump cronies out of office, rebuilding necessary agencies, and re-establishing responsible international relations, to worry much about issues like gun control.

From: bigdog21
26-Nov-20
So where do we inlist. It sure is hell is not the voting booth

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
Good on you Thunderhawk. I am in the business of firearms/ammo/optics.... like I always say about ammo, "It ain't milk". I have cusomers who buy a little every paycheck, and I have those in a total panic, because they're out, or nearly out, of certain calibers. Then guess who they're pissed off at when you tell them, "nope, don't have any, right now."?

I've even given up on explaining the ammo/firearms shortages to people... especially ammo. I can only outline the combination of factors that have led us to where we currently are so many times. Now all I can say is, "Nope, don't have any, nope none on the horizon, and nope, no list of people to call when it comes in."

The last one cracks me up..... sometimes I just tell them "no list", sometimes I go the extra step, and tell them they'd be # 743 on the list by now, so why would anyone bother?"

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
Ziek.... spoken like EXACTLY the type of person I was talking about..... "I do not currently own such weapons, so F 'em."

From: Thunderhawk
26-Nov-20
Ziek, most of my high capacity weapons are used for competition shooting. It's a billion dollar business, enjoyed by thousands of men and women. As for hunting I like my classic side by sides, my bolt rifles, and my semi auto Bennelli, for waterfowl. Most black gun enthusiast are not thugs. If I was in charge, I would make war.on all gangs, their the problem.

From: Matt
26-Nov-20
It is interesting that some seem to think that our Constitutional rights are only valid so long as we can continue to justify them. Much like my aunt who works for the UN that uses the hunting weapon argument as a straw man to justify the proposed dismantling of our 2A rights.

From: Skippy
26-Nov-20
Ziek, can you be any more dramatic?

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
I should not have to justify, to anyone, why I own anything I *may* own. Completely legal to buy or own, like toilet paper or creamed corn or a hammer or a sh!t ton of tannerite, or a wall anchor. The reason the United States of America exists, at all, is because people were tired of having their personal liberties trampled by a King. We do not elect Kings in this country. Although many elected officials act as though they are some type of royalty. They are supposed to answer to US. ANYTIME an elected "official" tells me something is "for my own good" I will call BS every time. Every. Damn. Time.

From: Jaquomo
26-Nov-20
"This election wasn't even about conservatives or liberals - it was about a corrupt, self serving, incompetent FORMER VICE PRESIDENT who somehow represented the Democratic Party which, since Obama was elected, is divisive; full of lies, and conspiracy theories with no evidence of such"

From: Woods Walker
26-Nov-20
Ziek: Your last post was THE funniest thing I've read in 4 years!! You should write for SNL!

That is...unless you actually believe what you wrote. If you do, GET HELP! QUICK!

From: Orion
26-Nov-20
I thought Ziek was off his rocker and a douche before but that post solidified it.

From: jingalls
26-Nov-20
Yup, Ziek is off his rocker. And not a very educated one.

Hey Ziek...if my memory serves me correctly. There have been two times a president has not conceded. Trump will make it the third.

Sounds like you are an LEO? And if you still are...please do not knock on someone’s door requesting them to turn in their AR. That’s when the first shots will be fired.

From: Drnaln
26-Nov-20
I never agreed with everything Trump did or his tactics on getting things done. If he was a family member he probably would have gotten his Ass kicked years ago. But he got things done & made things better for lots of Americans & others around the world. No new wars, More people working, Less people on the Government Tit, Starting to get a handle on illegal immigration, Energy independence...I could go on but it will fall on deaf ears or be twisted around so Obama / Biden gets all the credit. I can honestly see why millions of people didn't vote for Trump but I really have a hard time understanding WHY ANYONE would vote for Joe Biden & Kamala Harris? I just can't wrap my mind around that choice & the America it will bring to us all!

From: Patdel
26-Nov-20
Ziek, did that come straight out of a propaganda handbook? What a bunch of nonsense. I dont even know where to start.

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
.. and Ziek, you could not be further from the truth, as far as, (and I speak only for myself), looking at the situation as a sportsman. I do and have hunted with AR/MSR style rifles. I have friends who EXCLUSIVELY kill 100 -200 coyotes per year, with the same rifles. But as far as looking at the situation from a sportsman's perspective.... you are completely, unequiviquably WRONG about that. But, like your Democrat brethren, I'm sure you know what I'm thinking, and what's "best for me" at any given time.

26-Nov-20
Holy crap ziek. That's the craziest most illogical post I've read in a while. Congrats brother.

From: Ziek
26-Nov-20
I appreciate that WW. SNL makes its living by exposing truths in a humorous way. ;-)

Milhouse. I NEVER said I don't own any "high capacity" firearms. I said, they're not necessary, and mostly illegal already, for hunting, and of limited use for self defense. It helps in a written discussion if both sides can read. If you want to make an argument for other uses, then make THAT argument.

"I should not have to justify, to anyone, why I own anything I *may* own. Completely legal to buy or own..."

Milhouse, when the Constitution was written it was legal to buy a cannon. In the 1800's you could buy a Gatling Gun, or any amount of dynamite you wanted, or a human being for that matter. Even more recently, you could purchase a machine gun without a special permit. We "lost" all those privileges not because law abiding citizens abused them, but because too many criminals made use of them. My point is that what was once legal, or currently legal, may not be legal forever. I'm not even arguing that that's right or fair, just that it's reality. The fact is, more and more people, are afraid of guns, at least in OTHER peoples' hands. If we don't want to loose more rights/privileges, we better come up with arguments that aren't already irrelevant, or overly simplistic.

Thunderhawk, I don't disagree. My idea of a perfect government, is one where anyone can do whatever they want, as long as they don't interfere with other's right to do likewise. We should only need one law, 'If it's not yours, leave it the f*** alone.' But obviously, at least to most educated people, life is just not that simple. And in the modern world, it's much easier to get what YOU want by convincing arguments, than by force, or just by calling someone you don't agree with a "douche" like Trump would do.

From: Drnaln
26-Nov-20
Ziek...Lots of "Name Calling" the last 4 years & it all wasn't done by Trump. You can't even use syrup on your pancakes or eat a water melon or fried chicken without being called a Racist anymore. The go to word these days for the Left when they disagree with the Right.

From: Jaquomo
26-Nov-20
Ziek, read the text of HR5717 that the Dems are currently trying to push through the House. This is not some "fringe" element of AOC's party pushing these draconian restrictions.

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
Ziek, riiiight, just like freedom of speech. And religion, and due process, and unlawful search and seizure.... which are the next to fall, when you start to try and determine what the founding fathers "meant" when they wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights. It's still legal to buy a cannon, BTW.

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
I'll sell you cannons all day long.

Well, not you, but Jaquomo, he's in.

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
Cannons are muzzle loaders, no paperwork (4473) needed.

From: Orion
26-Nov-20
Ziek it's actually scary if you were involved in any sort of law enforcement career with that mindset. By the way you can still purchase machine guns and cannons

From: Ermine
26-Nov-20
You don’t have to be into guns but that doesn’t mean you should support laws to get rid of them or make it hard for them.

I think this summer was a prime Example of why people should own guns. All these people who were rioting and looting. Guess what insurance companies don’t cover that. So if you want to keep your livelihood you might have to defend yourself.

I bow hunt and hardly ever use a gun. But that doesn’t mean I’m ok with crazy gun laws. It’s all or nothing in my book. You either a pro 2nd amendment or your not. But if your a hunter you should be pro 2a.

It’s The same as a guy who is an avid big game hunter for ungulates..but is against mtn lion hunting or something.

Thankfully I don’t live in the city. And hopefully never have to deal with people rioting or trying To loot my house. But you can bet your ass that if people Show up at my house and want to harm my family I will die fighting, not on my knees. Sure you don’t need a big capacity mag. That’s all fine and dandy but when it comes to protecting my family Id rather have more bullets than less and wish I had more.

From: Ziek
26-Nov-20
"There have been two times a president has not conceded."

True, but they didn't make unsubstantiated claims of election fraud.

"It's still legal to buy a cannon, BTW."

OK. But you can't buy a modern day cannon equivalent.

"...unlike any president in the modern era didn’t bow to his own Party or take orders from a cabal."

You make my point for me. In other words he acted like a dictator and you actually believe in these conspiracy theories.

Jaq, lots of crap gets introduced that never sees the light of day. At least one source gives this a 4% chance of being passed. It's kind of early in the process to panic.

From: Milhouse
26-Nov-20
But I can buy the modern day equivalent of a full auto m 16. Meaning a full auto, M 16.....

From: jingalls
26-Nov-20
Trax, definitely blind and dumb. He actually believes that there’s no voter fraud! That’s been proven over and over. And the swamp won’t do anything about it until now. Even a peanut farmer from Georgia believes there is voter fraud. And warned against using mail in ballots.

And again Ziek shows how educated he is. Ziek, do you actually read? And I’m referring to actual historical writings. Not articles from liberal jiberesh spin machines.

From: RK
26-Nov-20
Ziek

I hope you are not LEO because if you are and you know as much other law as you know gun law the public is truly in peril from having you on the street

A person can but a 105 Howitzer if they wish as well as n antique cannon. Gatling guns are good to go, they operate with a crank, looked at one that was for sale last week, RPG gun part you can buy but ammo takes a permit, I have a friend that owns a Sherman tank, ammo takes a permit but not the tank. Explosives yep but takes permits including TNT but that also takes a special container to transport it

Comrade Ziek, do your homework for America, not for whatever ....stan you are from

From: Thornton
26-Nov-20
Ziek- Your bow and your bolt action are not "needed" either. You could easily go to the market and purchase your meat. See how this goes? Your left minded opinion is not needed on here. Meanwhile, I'll open my safes and determine which high powered rifle I'll use on my next hunt. Might be an AR, or an old semi auto Remington 81, or maybe a muzzleloader. Regardless what I choose, I'll decide if it's needed, and your kind can go kick rocks.

From: JL
26-Nov-20
"Even a peanut farmer from Georgia believes there is voter fraud. And warned against using mail in ballots."

The peanut farmer flipped on that.....

"Reversing a view the GOP cites often, Jimmy Carter embraces vote-by-mail

David Hawkings May 7

Jimmy Carter has become the first former president to publicly support making mail-in voting a nationwide option this year."

From: Orion
26-Nov-20
I doubt Ziek comes back like most liberals when confronted with facts and when their b.s. gets called out they either resort to name calling or disappear

From: Glunt@work
26-Nov-20
"You weren’t allowed to own a cannon during the Revolutionary War as an individual.”

Joe Biden

I don't want this guy involved in anything related to what I can or can't legally own. Of course individuals could own cannons and still can. Even modern versions with the right paperwork. Most of our naval force was comprised of privately owned gun ships. Which were actually the most powerful weapons on earth at the time. Should we be allowed to own a fully armed f-16? I'll take that situation happily before not being able to own weapons common among infantry which was the intent of clarifying the restrictions on Government when writing the 2A.

From: Jaquomo
26-Nov-20
Actually it has 0% chance of passing because of the makeup of the House and Senate. My point is that this is what a large proportion of Dems dream of. Make gun ownership so difficult and prohibitively expensive that it will only be feasible for their bodyguards and their precious criminals and gang bangers. That way they can claim they still respect the 2A, just making the country "safer".

From: Stix
26-Nov-20
I don't know why we are still discussing this or why people choose to live their life in fear. Isn't there ice fishing or something people can be doing instead??? Thanksgiving with their families?

From: Glunt@work
26-Nov-20
I can multitask :^)

From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-20
Me too! No fear here. Just disappointment that so many people want to "fundamentally transform" our country into something unrecognizable. The Founding Fathers warned against it, and now it appears a slim majority of voters want to go that way, while a huge number want to preserve individual freedom, liberty, and the Constitution as it was designed. This is an ugly time in our nation's history, and I predict it will get far uglier before we all hug and agree to become France.

From: Glunt@work
27-Nov-20
Biden is now at 22% more votes than Hillary in 2016 or Obama in 2012. Hard to believe with his opponent not giving up any and actually gaining since 2016. Thats something.

The less Democrats campaign, explain policy positions, answer questions or leave their house, the better they do. In 2024 they are planning on not even announcing their candidate until the day before ballots have to be printed.

27-Nov-20
Jaq; 2xxxx. I could not agree more!

27-Nov-20
Jaq 3xxxxx

From: Scrappy
27-Nov-20
Why are you guys feeding the trolls? Come on man, if you feed it it won't ever leave.

From: TrapperKayak
27-Nov-20
'C'mon, MAN!!!!

27-Nov-20
O’Biden slept his way to the top.

From: Glunt@work
27-Nov-20

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo

From: Jaquomo
27-Nov-20
My hunting buddy posted a meme on FB yesterday showing Biden saying "Merry Christmas" for his Thanksgiving greeting, and the FB fascists removed it. What does that tell us about big tech media......

From: TD
27-Nov-20
WRT to bans on black colored guns and magazines...... those mostly peaceful protests of thugs marching the streets, rioting and looting by the hundreds, blew that "nobody needs such weapons" and "guns are just for hunting" clean outta da water.... That argument is dead. They come to my house or my business looking for trouble it's trouble they will find. There needs to be the right of one man to legally defend his life and property from against a mob. 2020 was living dramatic proof of that. In the face of those who said it would/could never happen....

Without the ability to exercise them, rights mean nothing. WRT help from LEO? In many of those rioting (lets call it what it is) cases they are told by YOUR OWN government officials to stand down and take no action to protect you against them ......as the dems were actually TRYING to burn down America to hurt Trumps re-election chances and advance leftist control..... 'course when they were showing up at Mayors and Governors homes, then the police came out in force. And we swallow that swill they shovel while they dine in French restaurants in wine vineyards and enjoy designer ice cream in million dollar kitchens, hair salons in lockdowns they ordered on everyone else but them..... mind boggling how blind we have become, reliant on scoundrels to spoon feed us "the truth". Time to remove the blinders as well as those who put them on you.... these days the truth and facts must be sought. It's not hard, but does take a bit of personal time and effort to get them from more than one side.

Again, without the ability to exorcise them, rights mean nothing. Which bring up the fact it's not just the 2nd under attack. Several powerful leftists, including our moron HI Senator are publicly calling for restricting the 1st. Hate speech laws (one sided of course) that can put you in jail for offending the wrong person. Making it illegal to state an opinion online or at least requiring it's removal and censorship. Canada and Europe have fined and jailed even comedians using hate speech laws. For triggering someone who was simply offended. Not threatening violence. It's perfectly fine to threaten violence if it's done by the select person against anyone deemed by the mob unworthy of protection.

WORDS are now weapons and literal violence against another person. In fact even "silence is violence", haven't you heard? Burning down cities and physical assault in "mostly peaceful protest" however is just expressing a political opinion, it's just an idea. That is what these people believe is the level of intelligence in America, they expect you to swallow and believe anything they tell you, including what is right and what is wrong. A good many do already, that's clear.

Censorship already going on with tech and social engineering media. "I'll have to get back to you on that Senator..." and "we have made some mistakes and are working on that" when they have not fixed the mistakes they actually admit to. New York Post article on Hunter's laptop was shutdown and they lost their Twitter account....their fix? We'll let them have their account back if they delete the article post. A truthful and factual newspaper story from one of the oldest existing newspapers in America. Let that sink in.

Pull the 230 protections on these people for blatant knowing disregard of them, literally warning after warning from Congress. And let the wolves have at them. Leave the protections on for those actually are platforms, not censoring due to a view and discussing/debating the issues. Parlor is one, there are a few others. Blow up what are essentially monopolies like Google.... as has been done with others such as the phone company monopolies in the past. Actually a fairly apt comparison as the phone technology exploded on society in a similar manner.

Companies have a right to run their business as they see fit. Right up until they begin to violate your rights and those of others to fairly compete. They have no rights to special protections when they violate the agreements and societal contracts that afford those protections.

The leftists see the Constitutional rights of the common man as a threat to their power, how they control that man. This needs to be factored in when taking up debate of every single legal issue. They don't care about your rights.... or the rule of law for that matter. Only their power over you.

From: drycreek
27-Nov-20
TD, very good post. The only part you left out (that I can think of) is that politicians of both parties must have some kind of vested interest in not removing the 230 protections. Could it be money ? Ya think ?

From: Whitey
27-Nov-20
People are crying over spilled milk. People are still punching in a fight they lost along time ago. Republicans are no better than democrats, they want a big powerful government just spending on things they want. They operate in their best interest until they think they won’t get re-elected then they throw the R voters a bone. They sat there for 4 years and let the left attack Trump at will. They thought he would get voted out this year or serve another term and then things would go back to normal. They were just Biden their time, pun intended. We will become just like Canada and Europe it’s not if but when. We are in a post modern world that has declared God is dead, it’s mans will to power going forward. Trump proved that Our government is as corrupt and broken as any on earth. The only thing that can stop it is if we pick up our guns and take a fighting stance just like our fore fathers did 200 + years ago. People are too soft and comfortable to do that. Biden will throw the younger generation a bone by canceling their student debt and they will bend over and take it. Forever becoming slaves to the system. It’s not my country any more it’s my children’s and they have to go out a fight for what they want. It doesn’t really matter where you live in the world anymore it’s all the same. The only thing that makes it different is money. I have the money to go anywhere and live the life I want and my kids and grandkids will be able to do the same. I feel for the people who don’t.

From: 4nolz@work
27-Nov-20

4nolz@work's embedded Photo
4nolz@work's embedded Photo
It sickens me how the so-called Media will fawn over this senile guy now after seeing them openly attack Trump.The Media has become so corrupt they control the Country

From: KSflatlander
28-Nov-20
I’m with you Trax. We need the government to step in with these private social media companies and add more regulations to stop them from running their companies the way the want. Better yet...just have the government take them over...oh wait that’s socialism.

Facebook, Twitter, Bowsite...private companies so they can do what they want. Being a right wing nut isn’t a protected class. Don’t like it don’t click.

28-Nov-20
The thing that kills me about liberal voters who ride the fence of protecting our Bill of Rights and those that want and intend to change it is their inability to consider the slippery slope. To put things bluntly, you don’t loose battles by miles. You loose them by one inch at a time.

It also amazes me that these same people say any one who sees this as a conspiracy theorists. To put that blunt, arrogance and pride comes before any fall. And, you guys sure have that covered.

The federal government will never take our second amendment. But, what they will do is tax their way into the fight. When there is no desire or ability to defeat their push, they will change that right to one that suits their agenda. And, anyone who says there is no agenda behind it is too damn stupid to even consider in this discussion. The drive to do this is coming from some where. And, it isn’t the patriotic American either. Proof the slippery slope analogy is correct.

Here’s the beautiful thing about America as intended. Freedom. The right to protect it. And, the ability to not be led sheep. When that is gone, and it will be in time, all else is just lost.

I love my family and friends. I want them to have the same rights as I. And, I want them to experience freedom in its purest form. Not what a paid politician thinks it means. If that requires blood shed to those that oppose, sobeit. They should have minded their own business and not infringed on American values.

Anything as complex yet so simple as this republics documentation requires constant guard to keep weak minded liberals from tainting it with their peace and love bullshit. It’s a fallacy. A lie in the truest sense. They aren’t happy with live and let live. Unless you adopt their sick ideas of it. So, they will assure you do it their way. Which means America doesn’t exist anymore.

I didn’t loose my guns in a boating accident. So, don’t come to my house unless you feel the same. Don’t threaten me with a tax that I must pay for my freedoms. And, stop the BS about standing guard over America. If you don’t see it as a black and white issue, you are the problem.

Life’s too hard to complicate it with degrees of anything but black and white concerning the future of America. And, I ain’t going to apologize for that thought either.

From: greg simon
28-Nov-20
Can we get an AMEN!!!!

From: sleepyhunter
28-Nov-20
""Since we no longer have a community forum, hopefully it is alright to post this here since it may be of interest to many bowhunters as well.""

I personally enjoyed the CF along with the rest of Bowsite. Disappointed to see it go away. It made this site interesting and different from all other hunting sites. It's a good idea allowing Hunters to talk about current events that matter to them.

From: Michael
28-Nov-20
It would be easy to reign in big tech. Just modify there section 230 protections. Let things play out in our courts then.

I sure don’t care what it said on social media. I am not on it. But the censorship doesn’t help in the free speech department.

From: KSflatlander
28-Nov-20
So you all want to end protections limiting lawsuits for social media companies. Do away with the laws that prevent them from being sued for what you and I do with their product. So are you also for ending the same protections for gun shops and manufacturers too?

From: trublucolo
28-Nov-20
Shiras4224- "Trump 2024 campaign slogan...HDYLMK!!!" lol. I can see TBM in some of the things Trump says.

From: Ambush
28-Nov-20
I think it’s impossible to deny that the three biggest social influencers in the entire world are Google, Twitter and Instagram. I think it’s also impossible to deny that as structures, they lean very heavily left and promote that ideology. As do 90% of large media outlets.

The next and most insidious is the school systems. It’s a long term game and the game is in the 8th inning.

Might be a bench clearing brawl.

From: Catscratch
28-Nov-20
What about news networks; should there be a system forcing them to report things that have been fact checked first? Fines for bias and/or incorrect reporting?

It's easy to say don't look at Facebook or Twitter for the truth, but shouldn't the public be assured of being able to find it somewhere?

From: Ziek
28-Nov-20
"Life’s too hard to complicate it with degrees of anything but black and white concerning the future of America."

After referencing the Bill of Rights, he makes the above statement. Maybe he only reads the parts he likes, or interprets it the way that suits his arguments. Actually there are several less than "black and white " words in there.

"UNREASONABLE search and seizure". Evidently, Reasonable search and seizure IS allowed. Legal definition of reasonable: "Just, rational, appropriate, ordinary, or usual in the circumstances. It may refer to care, cause, compensation, doubt (in a criminal trial), and a host of other actions or activities." Doesn't sound too 'black and white' to me.

"Due Process of Law". Which obviously necessitates that laws are appropriate, and elsewhere, what bodies are allowed to make laws. Nowhere does it give individuals the right to make their own laws, or just abide by the ones they see fit. That's called anarchy. It's true that shit runs downhill. Even if you think you have the right to shit on your own land, you will soon find that your downhill neighbor doesn't want to put up with your shit. There is no such thing as "freedom in its purest form."

"Cruel or Unusual Punishment". Seems to leave a lot to interpretation.

And to be clear, I NEVER said I want any changes to the Second Amendment, but I am willing to discuss some responsibilities related to it. We have a system of government with laws, and ways to change those laws. I want to get back to that system, and it REQUIRES solid arguments to get what you want. or at least most of what you want. That system was NEVER intended to be a winner take all proposition based on the Presidential election. Many of you, I know, were happy with that type of system after 2016, but not so much now it seems. And that's exactly why it doesn't work.

If you were unhappy with the Democratic Party, AND the Republican Party in 2016, then Trump should have run for his own party, like TR did with the Bull Moose Party. Maybe he could have called it the Brown Nose Party, to accurately reflect what was required for inclusion. Of course, then he would NEVER have been elected in the first place.

"The next and most insidious is the school systems."...

and...

"Might be a bench clearing brawl.

Well that's the way it's done in a dictatorship. Of course, another way would be for hard line, right wing, conservatives, to get an education in equal numbers to liberals. But then, of course, they wouldn't be ignorant enough to propose/threaten violence as a solution to their grievances.

From: Ambush
28-Nov-20
“ But then, of course, they wouldn't be ignorant enough to propose/threaten violence as a solution to their grievances”.

Ziek, have you seriously been under a rock the past several months?!?! Who is doing what you just described??

From: TD
28-Nov-20
KS.... They are private companies and no need, reason or right to break them up. What you do with the social programing media is remove their 230 protection when they are censoring and favoring one viewpoint or political side over another, become publishers instead of platforms. Which many clearly are. If unbiased platforms, they are covered under 230. But many are not. Remove 230 protection from those who have abused it. And again, let the wolves have at it and sue them into oblivion. They will soon need to control and edit all content to stay out of court (as they will then be held responsible and libel for publishing it) and fade away as they lose viewers and business. Becoming competitors to the NYT and other publishers instead of partners and tools for them.

There were others similar that existed before Facebook and Twitter, etc.... that faded away. There are other upstarts now who can fill their void too. Those who are open platform, play by the rules and treat all views and voices equally will enjoy the legal protection afforded and hopefully flourish as free speech platforms. As 230 was intended. Those who don't best lawyer up......

Google OTOH...... is separate and unique problem. They have become one of if not the most powerful company on earth and pretty much a monolithic monopoly. They are indeed a different animal. They even own a few of those mentioned above, and becoming similar to the monopolies large utility companies held that have been broken up over the years. Massive technical advancements often wind up that way. For healthy completion to be viable at times they are broken up. In most cases the country was better for it. And it's not like those who built and owned those monopolies were made destitute and penniless, they still came out the other end as some of the richest people in the world.

If I wanted to go off grid with electric, heating, food, etc it is an available and viable option for me or anyone who wanted to do so, many ways to do it. I cannot however develop my own internet system. People have tested this and tried to function online Google free. They couldn't do it. People who think Google is mostly just a search engine are way behind the curve. They are intertwined in literally everything. And control most of what they are intertwined in.

28-Nov-20
Problem with libs is there filters and processors are wacked they spew out a bunch of gibberish they think sounds smart. Remember Ziek was the guy who thought having everyone Covid tested everyday was his brilliant idea when logistically completely undoable and nutty. So don't try and sway him with a sound argument or logic the processor can't handle it

From: KSflatlander
28-Nov-20
TD- you never answered my question.

From: Ambush
28-Nov-20
If Trump said “ I’m going to remove all the toys from orphanages and replace them with all new toys at my own expense”. The media and social media would explode with the headlines “Trump to remove all toys from orphanages!!!”

And the moron ninny’s social pages would explode with garbage like “ well at least Biden doesn’t want to steal orphans toys and sell them to fund anti abortionists”. Then they’d all cackle like chickens in agreement and retweet the “News” for months.

And Google would nod, shrug and say, “ well it’s the free expression of opinion”.

From: bigeasygator
28-Nov-20
It’s highly unlikely Biden will be able to do anything without the support of Congress as it pertains to taxes on firearms.

From: Orion
28-Nov-20
Ziek its no wonder why your camper got trashed

From: Grey Ghost
28-Nov-20
"What you do with the social programing media is remove their 230 protection when they are censoring and favoring one viewpoint or political side over another, become publishers instead of platforms.

I agree. In that sense, is the Bowsite forums a publisher or a platform? Threads and posts routinely get censored, here, with a decisively right-leaning hand, especially when the Community Forum still existed. Can I assume you'd prefer the Bowsite become a publisher, instead?

As for taxing firearms, they can only tax that which they know you own. The last I checked, it is illegal for the feds or states to keep a gun database or registry. So, any gun tax would have to be on a voluntary basis. I think they've tried implementing mandatory gun registration in a few cities in Colorado, and they were largely ignored by both gun owners and law enforcement. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a single conviction for possessing a non-registered gun in those cities. I think some of you are doing a lot of hand-wringing over nothing.

Matt

From: Ziek
28-Nov-20
Ambush, Well there is this:

WV Mountaineer - "If that requires blood shed to those that oppose, sobeit."

And it's widely agreed that the Second Amendment isn't about hunting, or even self defense, it's about the prospect of over-throwing a corrupt government, which is the implied threat. Tell me how that is relevant without the military's assistance, or with it, how it would be necessary. This is an academic argument, but is also relevant. Amendments to the Constitution continue to evolve and change, and we need relevant arguments. Also, the order of these amendments has NO value on their importance. The third is about quartering troops, and has a statement about unless authorized in time of war, so it has a built in clause to nullify it. "No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law." Is that still of such primary importance to be 3rd?

Womens suffrage is way down at 19, and seems WAY more important than the third. At least my wife would think so. ;-)

Prohibition was the 18th and it was repealed by the 21st.

My point is, NONE of these are as sacrosanct as we might think or desire. They have to be defended, as they CAN be amended, or even repealed. In fact, that is what the founding fathers intended. But they have to be defended by debate and convincing arguments, no matter which party is in office. Republicans would like you to believe that EVERY Democrat, or anyone that didn't vote for Trump, is out to take your guns. That is just not true.

Now that Trump is out, hopefully the Republican Party can figure out how to become more relevant to more people, or we ARE in trouble.

From: Woods Walker
28-Nov-20
"Republicans would like you to believe that EVERY Democrat, or anyone that didn't vote for Trump, is out to take your guns. That is just not true."

BS! I agree not EVERY Democrat, but the DEMOCRAT PARTY as it stands today is DAMN sure out to do that. They SAID it, and they have DEMONSTRATED it!!! In Chicago (a DEMOCRAT run hell hole for the past half century) they DID take handguns from law abiding citizens. No grandfather clause, no exceptions (unless you were an elected official in Chicago). One day you were a legal handgun owner, and the next you were a felon.

Go peddle your BS to more gullible saps. I ain't buying it. I've lived it.

From: Ambush
28-Nov-20
Ok Ziek, but HAS WV burned, looted, stolen and destroyed public and private property or severely disrupted people’s lives in the past few months. You’re avoiding the obvious to bolster and defend your worldview.

28-Nov-20
Ziek: the voice of the wise and boldly arrogant liberal. Godless, morality be damned, all while being too wise to acknowledge human nature and the danger it poses to freedom.

FWIW, my statement applies to people equally. No prejudice in nationality or race. If you choose to debate our Bill of Rights, I see you as the enemy. As should every American. Because the evolving door to our Amendments is the problem.

If you don’t like that or me, I’m fine with it. I’m not changing my mind anytime soon.

I find it hilarious a man will hang on to those words as a punchline. When he doesn’t possess enough back bone or common sense to see his view is responsible for killing over 60 million Americans in the last 40 years. Genocide committed in the name of culture.

From: Ziek
28-Nov-20
"You’re avoiding the obvious to bolster and defend your worldview."

How so? I didn't say, nor do I think, we shouldn't be allowed firearms for self defense, and have liberal laws about what we use to defend ourselves, and/or properties, and for hunting. But that's NOT how the 2nd has been interpreted, because of the complete wording. I wish it did specifically include self defense, and I implied that it COULD say that, if amended. Amending it is always looked at like it can only be made worse. If its intent is not as clearly inclusive as written, it could be made more clear and relevant.

I don't know what I'm saying that draws such ire. I want the same end result as most on here. I just don't think the path is through a narcissistic, arrogant, science-denying, bullying, lying, isolationist, opportunist, like Trump, and what's left of the Republican Party that gives him such free rein. I think that if almost anyone else had won the nomination in 2016, they would have had a much greater chance of re-election. If Trumpism is the future of the Republican Party, I fear there won't be one.

From: drycreek
28-Nov-20
Ks, nobody is talking about sueing social media about “what you and I do”, it’s what the owners are doing. Gun manufacturers have zero control over what their customers do, and their customers damn well can be sued and have plenty of times. Apples and oranges.

Ziek said “the system was NEVER meant to be a winner take all” but if you look at Biden’s website and see his proposed new gun laws you will see that it is exactly that. Beto is supposed to be his “gun czar” and he promised “Hell yes, we’re going to take your ARs, your AKs” Sounds like winner take all to me.

From: Glunt@work
28-Nov-20
" I think that if almost anyone else had won the nomination in 2016, they would have had a much greater chance of re-election."

I honestly don't think any of the other candidates would have had the chance to try because they wouldn't have beat Hillary to get elected at all.

From: Snag
28-Nov-20

Snag's embedded Photo
Snag's embedded Photo
It doesn’t matter. He’s just a puppet for the real powers to be.

From: Snag
28-Nov-20

Snag's embedded Photo
Snag's embedded Photo
....hmmmm

From: Milhouse
28-Nov-20
KSFlatliner and Ziek.... you both speak like true mouthpieces of the Democratic Party. You dance around the issue of "Why should I be turned into a criminal overnight, by some new law, when I was PERFECTLY WITHIN THE LAW a day or two ago? The thing is, at some point, if any of this BS ever comes to fruition, the same people you so staunchly defend will come for something that you personally hold dear. Give an inch...... you know the rest. THAT is the stark reality of the situation. This big brother shnitz has to end. Let me live my damn life, let other, like minded people live their lives. Live your own life. Why do so many people think it is incumbent upon them to force their will upon others????? THAT is where I draw the line. And believe me, lines are being drawn. I know what side I firmly stand on.

From: Ziek
28-Nov-20
Tell me how I reconcile these:

Everyone on here is thankful for our military personnel and vets. Yet, you elevated a draft dodger to Commander In Chief. He spouted on about patriotism, and respecting the flag etc. after there was a respectful protest at a football game, but where was he when the country called him to duty? Inventing bone spurs.

Most on here are Christians. Yet, you support someone who thinks the Bible is an appropriate PR prop (and apparently from what I see, he thinks that's all it's good for), at a manufactured event that had no religious purpose.

After 9/11, when almost 3,000 people died, most on here were pissed enough to go to the ends of the earth to bring the terrorists to justice. Now, after more than a quarter of a million people are dead from a virus, you still support a President that did little more than lie to us about how it would be gone real soon. His lack of action not only is responsible for at least some of those deaths (likely way more than lost on 9/11), but all the other suffering from uncountable medical procedures that had been, and still are being, cancelled because of over-stressed medical resources. Not to mention the damage to the economy and financial suffering of millions of people. Much of that could also have been avoided with uniform and fairly simple social distancing measures.

He makes millions of dollars selling rooms at his resorts and properties to accommodate his entourage at tax payer expense, and to foreign dignitaries who are all too eager to please him. No wonder he goes to Florida at least once a week.

If a Democrat did half of this shit, you would have crucified him.

From: Ziek
28-Nov-20
"Let me live my damn life, let other, like minded people live their lives. "

Milhouse, that's the biggest problem with the Republican Party. In the US, EVERYONE should be able to live their own lives. NOT just those that think like you.

From: Milhouse
28-Nov-20
Ziek.... exactly. You completely prove my point. Let me be clear. I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU DO, WITH YOUR LIFE, HOW YOU LIVE IT. I really don't even care if it's inside the constraints of the law. I do and have always sone my own stunts. I don't call 911. I do not rely on anyone to fight battles for me. I firmly believe in personal responsibility. So many chicken sh-- individuals out there, who whine and whine, but cannot take care of themselves or their own issues. It gets so tiring, listening to people who run to the "government" when they feel they've been wronged.

Be whover you want. Listen implictily to your government overlords. You obviously believe they know what's best for you and your family. They're looking for sheep like you.

28-Nov-20
Zork..if Hillary was in FOR sure we would be up to our eyeballs and bodies and wasted money in Syria and all more foreign blunders.

OMG if I was drinking milk it would shot out of my nose did a lefty lib...Zork alludes to the left being inclusive and to each his own..they are militantly on a ramage to make everyone think and do just what they say or they will destroy your lives...I would say even you know that but you always seem to find a new intelectual low

From: BC
28-Nov-20
Ziek, got news for you, showing contempt for our country and flag is not "a respectful protest at a football game".

From: 4nolz@work
28-Nov-20
Ziek you compare a guy you say used a Bible as a prop to a guy that supports abortion after birth? They stood and clapped for it then talk about their Catholicism.Sickening.

From: Milhouse
28-Nov-20
Abortion after birth. Straight up murder. Meanwhile, we're lectured about gun control.... and if it "saves one life", it's worth it.

From: KSflatlander
28-Nov-20
Millhouse- respectfully, I haven’t said anything about the gun tax. However, the “give an inch” thing is a fear tactic that is often used. But it’s just a fear tactic and I’m not caving to it.

Every single Amendment has limitations. Over time interpretation of those amendments changes with every SCOTUS case. Same goes for the 2nd Amendment.

I own many guns and I understand the 2nd amendment is there to protect citizens against government gone wrong. I support the 2nd Amendment but I am open to ideas on how to stop mass shootings. If it can prevent some idiot from shooting up schools then I’ll listen.

Dry creek- the comparison is not exact but it’s not apples and oranges. Someone above was talking about ending 230 protections for social media companies so they can be sued out of existence. That’s what I was responding to. Gun manufacturers and shops can do some things to keep their products from being used unlawfully. They already do...background checks. If you disagree I understand.

28-Nov-20
And the lefts cry for Covid its all about lives,,,the same people that literally giggle and jump for joy when birth canal baby murder/ pruning shears to the spine and brain scrambling is passed. These people are way beyond sick...way beyond

From: KSflatlander
28-Nov-20
I’m not sure how the leap was made but for the record my stance on abortion is exactly the same as Trump (his current stance on the issue).

From: Milhouse
28-Nov-20
KS.... so, let me just get this straight, and see if I have it right, because a lot can get lost in translation of text, vs spoken word. I don't have any idea what you may, or may not own in the way of firearms. But lets just say, for the sake of argument, you own several "AR" type/ style firearms. Let's also say, for the sake of argument, you own them just "because you can", and you have never used them to harm anyone or threaten anyone. A politician or group of politicians suggests they can stop or reduce mass shootings and gang violence by relieving you of your legally obtained and owned firearms, which have never left your possession or gun safe. Same politicians who "only have your best interests in mind". How does *trying* to take anything away from law abiding citizens make anyone safer? What's the end game? What are they afraid of? What is the plan that cannot go forward without an unarmed citizenry? Because, to my mind, there has to be an ulterior motive. Why else would law abiding citizens not be trusted with legally obtained firearms? There is absolutely no logical, reasonable answer.... other than, "We're planning something, and we'd rather not face these types of weaponry when we spring it on you. I'll hold on to mine. You do as you please.

From: KSflatlander
28-Nov-20
I agree with you on your example. Taking all guns away from law abiding citizens is not the answer IMO. It will not prevent school shootings.

By the way, I don’t think armed citizens are a match for our military/government like they were in 1776. I don’t accept the premise.

From: Milhouse
28-Nov-20
On an all out war scale? Nope. If the US military resorts to Abrams tanks, B1s, B52 carpet bombing, stuff like that? But humans on humans? Skirmishes? Guerilla warfare has stymied many an army.

From: Milhouse
28-Nov-20
For anyone interested in a little light reading, search out a copy of "Unintended Consequences." by John Ross. Great fact based, albeit fictional, read.

From: 3rd Degree
28-Nov-20
If the gun laws were meant to keep us safer, they would be stiffening penalties for laws already on the books. I'd like to see the laws already on the books enforced. Why is there no talk of stiffer penalties for criminals that get caught with illegal guns? Because that is NOT why they want more restrictions. That is NOT why they want your guns!

These new laws are meant for nothing other than to disarm the people, to keep the powers that be, protected when they take ALL of our liberties. Nothing less. If you believe otherwise, then you are a fool. They scream for tolerance, but THEY are the most intolerant. Their way or no way. They will try to force it down our throats by any measures they see fit, lies, fraud, stealing force, any of it. Look at the red flag laws. They are already confiscating guns for no just cause, other than somebody felt like something may happen.

If "we the people" have no guns, then they can do what ever they want with no fear of reprisal. It will only be a matter of time before they take liberties from every citizen, left, right or center!

Trump is about America! He is not perfect, but look at his policies and accomplishments. Regardless of who he is as a person, it is quite impressive. All while being attacked at every turn. I don't believe that any other president in the last 50 years could have withstood the scrutiny he has endured, and come out unscathed. And the left is so messed up, their front runner is the guy that DID the crime that Trump wanted investigated, that they tried to impeach him for wanting investigated. C'mon man! How asinine is that?

For the ones that say don't worry, that is not what they want, not what they plan. Get your heads out of your arces, they have come right out and said it.

For the others... let me know where the meeting will be, I am with you!

28-Nov-20
That wasn't a shot you you KS flatbrainer but it can be. That what your voting for in regards to radical baby killing. Kinda makes me think think of a parallel example you know I don't agree with all the jew killin but other than that the nazis are a-okay

28-Nov-20
^^^^^This^^^^^.

I’ve yet to meet any liberal with an ounce of conviction to the reality of the policies they vote for. They talk a good game. However, I get the impression It’s a “I don’t agree with them on that but, I support them because they don’t really mean what they say about it.”. Beyond careless.

People talk about love of fellow country men, yet support those that murder defenseless unborn country men. It’s as absurd as it sounds. Yet, rationalized somehow. Blows my simple mind.

29-Nov-20
KS...It is very doubtful that the sons and daughters in service would follow unlawful orders to turn their weapons on their mothers and fathers. It did not happen with the fall of the USSR in the early 1990s; though Putin is no better than a dictator. Cut it happen in China/N. Korea today? Absolutely as their populace is unarmed and menaced by brutal, far-left dictators. Our country needs to be governed by a centrist government that enforces the laws on the books, that leaves the Electoral College ALONE, and respects the Constitution and its Amendments as written and ruled on by the SCOTUS.

From: Jaquomo
29-Nov-20
For you Lefties who think Biden will save us from COVID with a mask mandate, more shutdowns, whatever, our CO governor Rump Ranger and his husband both have COVID now, despite wearing DOUBLE masks and imposing a Code Red shutdown. I'm still waiting to hear what Biden would have done differently than Trump, besides not implementing a travel ban in the beginning. Perhaps he could have instituted a "national standard" (Dems LOVE that crap) based on the New York model, which killed thousands by putting sick old folks back in nursing homes. That's how Dems roll..

From: Snag
29-Nov-20
There will be a day when those who think Biden is the savior (very small s) will say, “what went wrong?” It will be too late by then. The great deceiver will have his claws in us. I don’t put my faith in man.

29-Nov-20
Trax,

Looks like we the people gave him some different orders on November 3rd?

And before you start ripping me, I voted straight R including Trump. But the majority did not.

29-Nov-20
“Now that Trump is out, hopefully the Republican Party can figure out how to become more relevant to more people, or we ARE in trouble.”

Pretty relevant to 74 million supporters..

From: Jaquomo
29-Nov-20
Habitat, interesting how hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, apparently voted for Biden at the top and straight Republican the rest of the way down the ballot. Otherwise Republicans wouldn't have performed so well from Senate down to dogcatcher all across the country.

From: Ziek
29-Nov-20
Fact: I've been a registered Republican at least 10 times longer than Trump was before he was elected. Fact: I voted for the Republican nominee for President in every election until I didn't have a republican choice. The Republican Party is no longer. It's been replaced by the Trump Party. Yeh, he's the most conservative President ever. But I don't want to be in bed with the Proud Boys or QAnon. What intelligent person would? I have always been a moderate Republican. I believe in individual rights. I should be allowed my own religious beliefs, as should you, no matter what they are. A Theocracy, no mater the religion, is the absolute WORST form of government. No laws should be founded in religious beliefs. I'm as disgusted by the far right as I am by the far left. Moderation is the ONLY way our democracy can work. I'll vote for a moderate Democrat before a rabid, far right Republican every day, if that's my only choice.

Even now that he's been defeated, Trump is showing his true colors. He is endangering the security of the country by not including the President Elect in policy decision, and making as smooth a transition as possible, as every previous administration has done. As always, it's all about him personally, not the country. In every business when someone is fired, he's escorted out the door immediately, so they can't try to sabotage the business out of spite. Unfortunately, that can't be done when the President is fired, for obvious reasons, and before this, it was never even contemplated that it might be a problem.

29-Nov-20
Lou,

That observation has been used to claim voter fraud. The truth is you had guys out there like Mark Cuban on national TV saying to vote Biden for president, all Rs for Congress.

IMO, newfi is correct about centrist government. The people spoke, they disavowed both Trump and socialism at the same time.

Trax, voter fraud happens every election. Absent proof it occurred at a level enough to throw the final results in this last election, the inauguration will be for Biden.

From: Ziek
29-Nov-20
"Republicans unless stolen..."

"...how much damage can the America hating leftist cabal..."

And there we have the new Republican Party. Lies, fear mongering, and conspiracy theories.

29-Nov-20
“I find it hard to believe BH Obama got 16 million fewer votes than Biden just to begin with.”

I don’t. You had 30 million illegals voting this time.

I kid, I kid!

Both bases were fired up causing a record turnout. Trump fired up both sides.

From: Glunt@work
29-Nov-20
Voting the wrong people into power is more dangerous than citizens owning firearms. Voting should at least be subject to the same identity verification, background checks and criteria required on a form 4473 when you want to by a duck gun.

From: Whitey
29-Nov-20
It wasn’t illegals that voted for Biden it was your wives, sisters and daughters . Women vote liberal 87% of the time. Repeal the 19th amendment and get feelings out of public policy.

29-Nov-20
Glunt X100

From: Milhouse
29-Nov-20
The differences between tbe 2 sides are night and day. If Trump was declared thr winner, under the exact same circumstances the Biden has been..... hundreds of thousands of votes, all mail in ballots, counted in the middle of the night, 99% of them for Trump, cities in the United States would be burned to the ground. Burned. To. The. Ground. That is basically fact. That is the primary difference between Democrats and Republicans. Republicans will call foul.... and remain civil. Not so with the "other" side of the aisle. Someone PLEASE dispute this point. Feel free to use examples from the last 6 months, from cities across the US.

From: Woods Walker
29-Nov-20
Mail in ballots are corrupt, plain and simple. They are a Democrat wet dream. As long as they are permitted, we will NEVER have another fair election. That means this country is toast.

From: Milhouse
29-Nov-20
Agreed Woods Walker.

From: drycreek
29-Nov-20
KS, gun manufacturers do not and have not ever been responsible for background checks. That’s a function of law enforcement and they don’t even respond or apparently give a damn when someone is rejected because they lied on the form. The amount of folks actually charged with a crime for lying is miniscule. So if you don’t know those facts, all your other “facts” are highly suspect.

From: Rupe
29-Nov-20
That Zeik is a real conman. Reminds me of that tool Pat banned a long time ago.

From: KSflatlander
30-Nov-20
Drycreek- how do I put this politely...no chit. I guess you took me literally lmao.

I notice Whitey thinks women should not have rights and NOBODY flames him for it. What a tool.

30-Nov-20
How would they even know you own a gun? For example here in NM you can buy and sell from private individuals without reporting it to anyone. And yes I do realize they can look at records of gun stores, online sales, gross receipt tax records etc to see those who purchased at one time or another, but that doesn’t prove if a person still owns a gun or not

From: Woods Walker
30-Nov-20
To add to raksha's point, in Illinois to possess/purchase firearms or ammo you need a state issued Firearm Owner's Identification Card (FOID. The card is good for 10 years, with a fee of $10.00.

Now, as most of you know, Illinois is a Democrat run disaster (like most ALL Democrat run cities/states). They currently have bills in the state house that would decrease the validity time of the FOID card by 50%, and INCREASE the fee by 100%!!!

Now, on top of all of this, the Illinois state law states that the State Police (who actually issues the FOID card), are legally required to issue/deny a FOID card in 30 days. Right now, the wait time to receive a FOID card is 116 days...almost 300%!!!

An article in Bearing Arms (www.bearingarms.com), makes an all too true observation about this....

"For the moment, gun owners can’t really expect any relief in court or in the Democrat-controlled legislature, which hasn’t expressed much interest in dealing with the lengthy delays caused by high demand on the part of gun owners and understaffing on the part of the Illinois State Police. The ISP says its hiring new employees to work through the growing backlog, but there’s a minimum six-month training period before the new hires can actually being processing any applications.

Illinois’s lengthy delays are a perfect example of why it’s such a bad idea to require a permission slip from the government before you can exercise a constitutional right. Even as violent crime is soaring in cities like Chicago and criminals are acting with impunity, law-abiding residents who want a gun for self-defense are forced to twiddle their thumbs while the bureaucracy plods along at a snail’s pace.

We already know that violent criminals don’t care about FOID cards and concealed carry licenses, but the state’s inability to process applications in a timely manner is likely leading some otherwise law-abiding citizens to get or carry a gun while their applications are in limbo. In other words, the state is creating criminals with their lengthy delays. It’s an untenable position, but unfortunately unless lawmakers or the courts act, there’s no quick fix."

IMO this is INTENTIONAL, and fits right in with raksha's post.

From: drycreek
30-Nov-20
KS, gun manufacturers do not and have not ever been responsible for background checks. That’s a function of law enforcement and they don’t even respond or apparently give a damn when someone is rejected because they lied on the form. The amount of folks actually charged with a crime for lying is miniscule. So if you don’t know those facts, all your other “facts” are highly suspect.

From: KSflatlander
30-Nov-20
Drycreek- when you buy a gun the shop will ask you to fill out paperwork. If you ask why the will respond, “We need to do a background check.” It is understood by both parties in the conversation that the shop isn’t the one actually going through criminal records.

From: Whitey
30-Nov-20
Ks because it is an irrefutable fact that women vote liberal 87% of the time. So if you want to end liberal policies repealing the 19th is the quickest way. No idea how to stop you from voting like a woman.

From: bigswivle
30-Nov-20
“And there we have the new Republican Party. Lies, fear mongering, and conspiracy theories.“

Is this real life?

From: Matt
30-Nov-20
"Ks because it is an irrefutable fact that women vote liberal 87% of the time."

Do you have a citation for this "irrefutable fact"? A quick search on recent gender splits in presidential voting suggests that is not anywhere close to true but I am interested in the context of the statistic you cited.

I've read a number if articles that suggest it wasn't until the republican party under Ronald Reagan took on a platform that was deemed to be an attack on women's reproductive health (anti-abortion, anti-planned parenthood) that women's voting affiliations moved markedly away from those of men.

From: Woods Walker
30-Nov-20
"If you like your doctor/health plan you can keep your doctor/health plan".........

Another Democrat ,"Irrefutable Fact".......aka, MORE BS!!!!

And no, they don't have to be/and aren't, anywhere CLOSE to being true. That's how they roll.

From: KSflatlander
30-Nov-20
"If you like your doctor/health plan you can keep your doctor/health plan"

Woods Walker- Did you keep your doctor/plan?

Better yet...did anyone on the Bowsite lose their doctor/plan because of the Affordable Care Act?

From: Whitey
30-Nov-20
Matt, the 87% is all elections not just presidential and women under 40. The abortion issue is not why more women vote liberal than men . In fact more women oppose abortion than men. The shift started when marriage declined. There are more single women today . There are more women voters today by 10 million because more register . There are more women attending college and graduating and more women are working than at any other time in history. 800+ women ran for state, local and national office last election. Women are more likely to support other women in politics. My comment was tongue in cheek to rile up the liberals. However it is true that if we repealed the 19th there would never be another liberal elected. Only 32% of males support democrats.

30-Nov-20
Whitey,

How many times have you been divorced?

Just kidding, but not totally. Just trying to rile up the conservatives;-)

From: Dale06
30-Nov-20
I lost my health care plan because of obummer care. It was replaced with a plan that was much more expensive. What he said about keeping your plan and doctor was a bald face lie and he and anybody with a multi digit IQ knew that from day one.

From: bigswivle
30-Nov-20
“One need only to study the modern model of the events leading to the swift but effective ways Australia got rid of weapons for the common citizen.“

There’s more guns broward county Florida than all of Australia. Good luck with that plan

From: KSflatlander
30-Nov-20
Dale- then you’re a socialist because your on Obama care. Tongue and cheek.

From: Stix
30-Nov-20
KS we are normally in agreement but I must point out that I know of no one that lost their health coverage, but most lost their HMO style plans which the affordable care act classified as "cadillac plans" which carried a heavy tax penalty. Most plans were changed to high deductible plans, which for most caused more healthcare expenses. Be that as it may, if the original ACA plan, which included a buy in to the state medicaid system was enacted, it would have led to dramatic savings in health care costs.

On another note, since my favorite Michelle Obama didn't run, we got Kamala as VP which is good, but if Joe Biden resigns, the we will have Kamala as president which is just as good as Michelle.

From: Ziek
30-Nov-20
"Mail in ballots are corrupt, plain and simple. They are a Democrat wet dream. As long as they are permitted, we will NEVER have another fair election. That means this country is toast."

Why, because Trump says so? Show me some proof. If that's true, they should just declare the Georgia runoff for the Dems. since it's already rigged for them. No point in Republicans going to the polls. And if it was rigged, why didn't they bother to rig all the down ballot races? More likely that lie is just a Trump wet dream. He apparently thinks that everyone is an idiot, and still believes anything he says. Or maybe, he's just counting on that his supporters are.

From: RK
30-Nov-20
Yes Zeik I agree with you

The Georgia runoffs are already in the Dems bag

Everybody knows that

From: TrapperKayak
30-Nov-20
I wager that the Dem voters will all be butt sore after 4 years of the hell we are about to experience. Be careful what you wished for...You're going to get it. The other 73 million are also going to pay the price. The lying mainstream media is a big part of the reason, and they will also pay. LOL! The loser...is America as we know it. Bye...

From: TrapperKayak
30-Nov-20

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
TrapperKayak's embedded Photo
Cheaters, liars, conspirators. And your children will all be learning Mandarin, right from the comfort of your own home!!! Welcome to the new China. Sell-outs...

From: Woods Walker
30-Nov-20
KS....NO! Nor did my wife. Just about everyone I know lost their plans. But then again, we're self employed and/or work for small companies. You know, the ones the Democrats HATE with a vengeance.

Not only that KS, but several other of my friends had their hours CUT so they'd be under 40 hours so the company didn't have to pay the Obamacare tax.

Like I said, Democrats hate the working class. They may talk a good game, but their actions are a 180. Just wait until 4 years from now how far down we'll all be.

From: Glunt@work
30-Nov-20
There's enough evidence to let the legal challenges play out.

Even some Democrats I know believe some shady stuff went on. They dont think it was enough to change the outcome, but they are fine with exposing it.

There's more evidence than what the left news groups are reporting. Also, less bombshells than the right side talking heads are reporting. The anomalies in the critical swing states and a bland candidate like Biden getting such a massive vote total, against an incumbent candidate that did better than last time, is pretty odd.

Biden is getting briefings and the transition will be fine if thats what happens. We have some time and have been through this before.

From: KSflatlander
30-Nov-20
My point was that the statement was not true (a lie) for 4 million Americans but true for the other +300 million of us. Woods walker just like to get in with his robotics talking points he got fro the latest right wing nut on TV from 5-10pm. It wasn’t a lie to him so he just repeats repeats.

It looks like Whitey is doing a pretty good job at turning us into China. He wants to take voting rights from half of the American population. He’s on your side Trapper lol.

From: Orion
30-Nov-20
Are you ignoring the answers to your question that many people lost their plans and doctors due to Obamacare

From: KSflatlander
30-Nov-20
See above.

From: Matt
30-Nov-20
"Matt, the 87% is all elections not just presidential and women under 40."

Can you post the citation? The most relevant stat I can find is that in the 2018 elections 56% of women identified as democrats or as liberal-leaning.

"Not all women are so weak minded that they cannot handle a dissenting opinion."

If only that were the case among most middle aged white men. ;-)

From: redheadlover
30-Nov-20
Guns? What guns. I don't own any guns. And if I did it's not the government's business what I own.

30-Nov-20
This just in from Biden’s public relations firm CNN.

Now that the election is over.

Turns out China withheld important info on the virus, and Trump didn’t genetically engineer the virus in Palm Beach.

And the vaccines are 95% effective and will be distributed in a couple weeks.

A little late. And old news to the informed. But at least this shows CNN isn’t biased

From: TrapperKayak
30-Nov-20
Arguing against the person biased on their personality is one thing. Arguing against the achievements of said individual is quite another. The immigration promises kept, the Mid east peace deals, the economy, the build up of our military, the benefits to our Veterans, the achievement of the energy independance, NOT giving the Iranian Mullahs $150 BILLION of our taxpayers money to build nukes to launch against the free world, putting the US Embassey in Jerusalem, PROTECTING THE 2A, and all the positives that the mainstream media are not reporting on, etc. etc., are pretty hard to argue against no matter what orientation you lean toward. This country is better off with our govt. limited in size and Republicans putting our own counfry first vs. Dem. globalism. You can argue that all day long in the world of denial.

From: Stix
30-Nov-20
I wanna keep Pat's prediction of 1000 posts to this thread so I say:

Since my favorite Michelle Obama didn't run, we got Kamala as VP which is good, but if Joe Biden resigns, the we will have Kamala as president which is just as good as Michelle.

There! What do you got to say about that!

From: Glunt@work
30-Nov-20
I agree. Kamala is just as good as Michelle. I have the same confidence in either regarding what kind of job they would do as President.

From: TrapperKayak
30-Nov-20
As long as its NEVER HILLARY...or PELOSI.

30-Nov-20
Biden is the least of my worries, he's 78 can barley walk or talk on his own...He makes it one, maybe two years at most...Then say hello to President Harris!

They want her to have at least two years under her belt before 2024...

From: Rupe
30-Nov-20
Moron defending Obamacare with lies. Dude has no shame

From: StickFlicker
01-Dec-20
Ike: "...he's 78 can barley walk or talk on his own..."

Well, I guess he proved that he can barely walk on his own today when he broke his foot while walking!

01-Dec-20
The man will be dead in two years.

I know if I were Joe I’d be wondering how long before I contracted COVID and died.

From: Woods Walker
01-Dec-20
"Moron defending Obamacare with lies. Dude has no shame"

Of course not Rupe. They're DEMOCRATS. Lies are all they have, because if the actually TOLD the truth about what they really will do/did, then no one would ever vote for them. And now that they have mail-in voter fraud, they can do whatever they damn well choose, because honest/fair elections in this country are O V E R. It was nice while it lasted.

He can lie all he wants to about made up numbers that are BS, but to tell someone else what they actually LIVED is false, is a Democrat at it's finest. Next he'll be telling me that the business I have I didn't really build, someone ELSE (most likely another lying Democrat) did it for me. Democrats...the brown finger party, because EVERYTHING they touch turns to s***.

From: TrapperKayak
01-Dec-20
Lol WW! Even though its not funny in the least. They lied and did EVERYTHING they could concoct under the sun whatever means to sabotage President Trumps presidency and it is no different with this whole fraudulent election. They could not accept clintons defeat and pissed away our country, with the help of CHINA no less, and every other country an the side of hell, and look what we patriotic Americans are left with...A total shambles of a legitimate election process. Its a monumental disgrace, and I still hold out hope it will all be uncovered and heads will roll.... lots of them. I still trust in God to help right this sinking ship. Call me negative...its REAL folks.

From: KSflatlander
01-Dec-20
What’s funny...hilarious actually is that you guys (rupe and woods walker) think you have the higher ground when it comes to truth and decency. Trump fan boys think the truth is in their side when Trump lies daily often about stuff easily fact checked. You just can’t make this up. Delusional is a good word.

If neither of you had to switch doctors then was it really a lie to you? Or was it a misinformation to only some people who went on Obamacare with certain plans? Yet you forget Trump said he will roll out the Republican healthcare plan in “2 weeks” for 4 years. Your party doesn’t even have a plan. As if you even care anyway.

Rupe says he would not “blink an eye” killing a friend/family/neighbor with a different political view and I’m the one without shame. Good one rupe.

From: Woods Walker
01-Dec-20
Keep proving my point KS.....THANKS! Anything else you'd like to tell me about my life? I can count on you, because as you prove every time you post, you KNOW EVERYTHING!

From: Ziek
01-Dec-20
That is humorous considering Trump is a pathological lier - a form of mental illness, usually accompanied by other mental issues. Rudy has obviously lost his mind, and Mitch looks like he's been embalmed for quite some time.

01-Dec-20
And Biden's not?!? LMAO ^^^

From: Stix
01-Dec-20

From: Jaquomo
01-Dec-20
Mitch may be embalmed... but as long as he keeps tabling ridiculous bills that come out of the current butthole called the House of Representatives, that's a positive thing.

From: Huntcell
01-Dec-20
Drop the concern about Hiden’s position ask President elect Cumala what is her position on guns?

From: TrapperKayak
01-Dec-20
Ziek, what exactly do you see when you look in the mirror every morning? You must be gettin' up there yourself... Like I said, its about their achievements, not the person. what is their performance record of achievement by comparison? If Trump were to stay on pace with his rate of successful policies in place, how far past Biden would he have been in 47 yrs? Hell, he's already lapped Biden several times in 1/10th the time. I don't care about the fact that he has to satisfy his ego ( he does). I care about what he does that he promised, which are the the things that I voted for both times. He came through in flying colors (red, white, and blue), inspite of his little lies that make him feel good not realizing they hurt no one but himself.

From: TD
01-Dec-20
Leftists and their moral equivalence...... equating used car salesmen boasts ("he's a liar!") to using your position in government to enrich yourself and your family with Chinese, Ukrainian, Russian money at the expense of your own country and it's interests. Literally a traitor to his country, good with sending the largest supporter of terrorism on earth Billions of dollars in cash literally by the pallet load, Selling out America and it's interests for their Elitist Globalist Ideology. How many times did we hear "energy costs must necessarily skyrocket" and "those manufacturing jobs are never coming back" and "you didn't build that" and others. Just more BS to reduce freedoms, control and lower Americans down a notch or three, ..... A person only has to look at the Globalist corporations that dumped truckloads of money on Biden. Global interests (and profits) over American interests. I recall for years leftists whining about the money in politics and the influence of giant corporations..... In the words of Pogo, now they are one.....shamelessly so.

The Trump Doctrine is truly "America First". He worked for America and Americans like few I've seen. Whatever you may think of his personality, his love for this country and what it stands for..... it's freedom, working people and working ethic is undeniable.

I will never understand the mentality of willfully and purposely ignoring accomplishments and results..... incredible accomplishments especially considering a relentless and totally dishonest opposition. In favor of whining weenies with tender twiggered feewings because he said something rude. Like get your azz to work. Stop looting. Stop burning things down, ya dirtbags. Actually dared to say Make America Great Again. Apparently that engenders (can you still say that?) a host of "phobic" terms and baseless accusations spewed out that the woke confuse for reasoned debate and engagement. Being "Patriotic Americans" now means anti-American and pro-Globalist. Apparently "woke" is synonymous with "clueless".....

SMH......

The Trump Doctrine

From: Stix
01-Dec-20

From: JL
01-Dec-20
IMO....one person you have to keep an eye on is Gabby Gifford's husband, soon to be US Senator Mark Kelly, D, AZ. He is a decorated naval aviator/astronaut. He claims to be pro-2A however I have heard him push for "assault" weapons bans and other gun control measures that in his view are "common sense". He and his wife already have foundations set up to push for gun control measures. Unless he has changed....I can see him pushing his gun control measures on the country.

From: Will
01-Dec-20
I had a huge post going. It had good points. But I have to admit, it was largely just going to help Pat hit 1000 posts here.

Something Matt said just felt like the most astute comment on this thread:

"If only that were the case among most middle aged white men. ;-)"

Dude - that's frigging hilarious!

Entirely unrelated, but to help Pat out.

It's awesome that the party that hates identity politics elected, but not only that, adores, to the point that they wish he could be president for ever, literally, the greatest master of identity politics in modern history. It's not even remotely close for second. That's been intriguing to me for 4 years now. One of many riddles wrapped in a mystery and hidden in an enigma this past 4 years has left for me.

From: 'Ike'
01-Dec-20
'Heel's UP Harris'...LMAO! I can't wait for some of you to get what we here had to deal with, when she ran our DOJ...To think of her as our next POTUS, really is 'hilarious'!

From: Will
01-Dec-20
Are we still cool with Bill Barr, or is he deep state now?

Asking for a friend.

01-Dec-20
I don't have time to keep up with this thread. Can someone give me a summary of the last 100 posts?

From: Grey Ghost
01-Dec-20
"I don't have time to keep up with this thread. Can someone give me a summary of the last 100 posts?"

Sure. Basically the last 100 posts said "blah, blah, blah....".

;-)

Matt

From: Stix
01-Dec-20
I have no idea why my previous posts keep getting scrambled.

KS we are normally in agreement but I must point out that I know of no one that lost their health coverage, but most lost their HMO style plans which the affordable care act classified as "cadillac plans" which carried a heavy tax penalty. Most plans were changed to high deductible plans, which for most caused more healthcare expenses. Be that as it may, if the original ACA plan, which included a buy in to the state medicaid system was enacted, it would have led to much lower healthcare costs. Biden supports the public option, medicare at age 60, raising payments of SS. Since I am retired and under 60, Biden's plans will help me financially the most under 60, Biden's plans will help me financially the most.

I cant help but wonder if he was pro gun if more people on this forum would support him. Most here have been buffaloed believing gun ownership is the only defender to our freedom. This isn't 1776, where the citizen militia was our only military. There is a standing army (which is unconstitutional) that can stomp on us like a bug with advanced weapons, and aircraft.

From: Wild Bill
01-Dec-20
"that can stomp on us like a bug with advanced weapons, and aircraft."

Nah, that's what the tax man is for, and collecting the guns is for their safety.

01-Dec-20
Will,

You referring to Barr saying there was no fraud at a level that would overturn the results? Man the National Review editors wrote a scathing article and the CEO of Dominion was published calling the fraud allegations nonsense. What's going on here?

I was thinking about this thread and the Broadhead thread. I bet the only head better than Vortex would be the one Don Jr. uses. They should just publish which one he uses so guys here know which one to buy.

Keep your shorts on boys, we're blowing through a 1000 soon enough.

From: Rocky D
01-Dec-20
“ I was thinking about this thread and the Broadhead thread. I bet the only head better than Vortex would be the one Don Jr. uses. They should just publish which one he uses so guys here know which one to buy.”

Absolutely not, guys here no much more about broadheads than the people that listens to the liberal left media. The real sad part is they call it news. Check out your 401k, the price of gasoline, and the military at the end of the next four years. The left reminds me of third grade recess with it’s “not fair” mantra. Even more exasperating is most of their issues are not really issues. How dumb can white males be to vote for people who are literally blaming white males for all the iniquities of the American experience. How about some rule changes in the NBA to make up for the lack of diversity! Even better than that is there is not a single outcry from the women’s movement about not being included in the military draft. What happened to Me too? No one actually wants equality! What woman is going to get out in the rain and change a tire when a man is setting there. The really bad part is that the poor bastards who have legitimate issues are used and abused for their vote in the ultimate power play and the Dems placate them with lip service because they need them where they are so that four years from now they can drum up the same old song and in order to get the same results!

From: Will
01-Dec-20
Yes, Barr and basically every person involved in the election, both those Trump appointed to keep it "fair" and other's who are career gvmt folks or political leaders of all parties... and basically every judge encountered thus far... Oh, I shouldnt forget that crack Trump/GOP legal team who several times when under oath have admitted they have no evidence of fraud. It's a struggle for me, to figure how they can say that under oath, but then put on fun plays in front of cameras to suggest fraud. As a centrist who leans left, I feel it's easy to deduce such behavior suggests some sort of disconnect from reality. But, you know, if Trump says it, it's true.

So....

It's rigged I tell ya! It's rigged!

From: nchunter
01-Dec-20
Amen Trapperkayak. and yes I lost my fantastic insurance shortly after Obamacare was signed. I went from a 200 deductible to a 2000 to a 5000 . Thanks Barack

From: JL
01-Dec-20
I think the Barr statement just covered the period from he has seen so far. I think the path for Trump will be to show something along the lines of those ballots that came in late with just the Biden box checked.....see if the signatures match up or if they were reproduced signatures from a machine or maybe the same hand(s) doing the signing. His other path was states/cities allowing ballots to come in after the polls closed. I don't think it will work, but ya never know what Rudy is hiding up his sleeve.

From: Stix
01-Dec-20
And we all still go out hunting, fishing, and shooting our bows. What are we arguing for??

01-Dec-20
For freedom

From: Milhouse
01-Dec-20
It all depends on who you want to believe..... CNN, or NewsMax? CNN has been censoring your "news" for years. 70% of Republicans do not believe the election was on the up and up. Look at the witnesses coming forth. US postal service employees, subcontractors, non partisan election workers.... the fix was in here.... and the Democrats knew it was a lead pipe lock. No wonder Joe Biden didn't leave his basement for 4 months. He knew he didn't have to. Well, his party knew he didn't have to.... I doubt Sleepy Joe knows whether he's on foot or horseback.

From: Milhouse
01-Dec-20
SERIOUSLY STIX? This is about not being subject! Typical Democrat response....."Well, ah, gee, as long as they still let me do some of the stuff I like to do, I guess it'll be ok."

Don't you ever get sick of being told what to do, by people who supposedly work FOR YOU????? Ever just want to live your life, own what you want, not bother anyone, and not be bothered? Jeezus.... people like you really make me wonder why we fight Darwinism so hard.....

01-Dec-20
Can’t figure this part out...

If all these America hating, commie loving leftists want to take over the country, and by all accounts here had control over the entire election process with thousands of willing participants, why did they stop with the presidency? Why not use the same rigging to add more seats to the House, take over the Senate, and not give up any governorships and state legislatures?

Are they that stupid? Or is Barr right that there wasn’t enough fraud to change the outcome?

01-Dec-20
Stop!!!!!!!!

Everyone re-read TD’s last post. It’s the summarization of this complete thread, not to mention the absolute truth of the situation. Accurate to a razors point. And, the whole election rolled up into one neat ball. No one here, regardless of which side they favor, can deny it. It puts rhyme to the reason of who you voted for.

This acknowledgement of his post will separate the men from the boys. Men vote with their brain. Not their heart or ego. And, this thread definitely illustrates that.

01-Dec-20
Justin,

What side you are on separates the conspiracists from the realists.

01-Dec-20
Frank, to be blunt so as not to continue with a game of words, I meant exactly what I said.

Not saying your response isn’t due, nor justified, or anything of the sort. However, I was saying that based on candidate performance in the political spectrum, one with 47 years and multiple attempts at running for POTUS previously, versus another who run multiple times, was elected in an election with zero evidence of voter fraud, then spent his first term performing the duties and tasks he promised he would, against both political parties best wishes, it’d be dang hard to deny anything TD said. Period.

Here is the way I see it. And, I’m a simple man. I don’t play semantics. And, I understand that life requires dedication and commitment from everyone in order to be the best for every one. It can’t be a win all the time and, given the dismal results we’ve built with our democracy over time, it’s going to take sacrifice by everyone to put this ship back in sail on the path that best promises the future of America, as a good one.

The job market concerning job performance of hired employees versus their degree of friendship with their employer is never a consideration for picking a leader. Bosses aren’t hired to be the best friends of those they supervise. Employees aren’t hired by a boss for the same reason either. People are hired or appointed to perform a duty. And, often times, it’s the rude, crude, motivated, and not so shiny that get hired to perform in positions more often failed by those who fit nicely into the idea of the better fit.

Trump wasn’t hired to be deemed presidential by people who feel a leader needs to be polished. He wasn’t hired to be perceived as being nice. He wasn’t hired to be perceived as a modest man content to accept obvious wrongs. He wasn’t hired to make us feel warm and fuzzy.

He was hired to look anyone, elected official or not, in the face and say “No More” to the endless line of abuse the American people have suffered from them. He was hired to make China, Muslim nations, and Russia toe the line. He was hired to put the global economy on a fair field instead of in every other countries favor. He was hired to Make America Great Again. And, he was intent to give the American people a voice. Proven by actually carrying through or, at least fighting like heck to do so, with his campaign promises.

There are many more examples of what he was and wasn’t hired for. There is no need to point them out. We all get the picture. What is important to point out is, he performed his task to the best of his ability. Which when defined, is pretty impressive. Because he didn’t have many friends.

However, the stark reality is many here, and every where when polled, complained he was rude, crude, obnoxious, etc..... To a point they couldn’t over look his actions in regards to his results. Like it was something to be proud of. While calling Trump a narcissist!!!! I spend a lot of time still yet contemplating that. As do I of the other points TD made.

The only thing that makes sense to me is what I said. Because in my life, a man is expected to be the leader. A person who sucks it up to do the right thing. Even when it’s hard. Someone who’s responsible and adult enough to consider all the options and pick the best based on FACTS. Not feelings.

If a man hurts your feelings, whoop his tail or shut up and whine on your own time. Don’t talk like we are girls asking for more consideration. Listen to what he says. If it’s legit, learn from it. If not, call him out. The problem with doing this for his detractors is the results says Trump got it right. Even though people got their feel goods hurt a little.

Keep in mind, I’m not addressing you specifically. I’m addressing every one who’s done this. Grow up!!!!! Life is hard. Bosses are not hired to be nice. They are hired to get the best out of their employees. And, leaders, however undesirable in tact, get results due to their relentless and taboo approaches. It’s the way the world works.

That’s the way I see it. And, I loose respect more everyday for those who don’t. I don't have time for hurt feelings, more appropriate candidates that never gets results, or a society that has to talk it out because they are uncomfortable with a no nonsense personality. That’s why I voted for Trump. And, it’s the only way I can rationalize why those who didn’t, could justify their actions. It wasn’t a hard decision if results mean anything.

From: Stix
01-Dec-20
I have a friend in the Alaskan bush, who After the 2008 election, didn't know we had a new president. And after all the bad things being said about Obama, he said his life never changed in anyway to the negative through the full 2 terms, in fact it got better.

01-Dec-20
Justin,

I know you wrote from the heart, and you are a good man.

People just think differently, always have and always will. All the writing on this board will not change the way a person thinks, especially at our age.

I trust in the system. It is the best that man has ever constructed, and it was and hopefully remains so with Divine Intervention. There is some very positives with this election. We turned our backs on socialism and just maybe we want leaders who do have what it takes, but we are going to set the bar higher in how they conduct themselves going forward. There is no reason why we can’t have both. We don’t raise our children to be petulant, a word out of National Review’s editorial.

Let Trump’s vision still write the platform for the future. Let the Dems run far enough left this go around that two and four years from now we will have a better direction.

Four years ago who would have thought we would have improved this much? I like to believe He knows what we need, and there are enough good people praying.

When I hear the hard right saying things like they will not hesitate to kill family in a civil war or we should take away the right of women to vote, I don’t stand with them. And neither does the nation as as this election proved. We will be just fine, lots of good people here and most are silent, but a larger number than ever spoke on November 3rd. People are starting to wake up to how serious this is. And that is good, and good will prevail!

01-Dec-20
Stix, your buddy lives in a resource rich state, that has had billions pumped into it due to oil demands way before Obama ever showed up. And likely lived off government entitlement paid for with tax revenues those investments created.

FEIW, your buddy is an example ignorant of reasoning, that will further ensure politicians continue to sell the American people out for their own bank account.

From: Ziek
01-Dec-20
"...inspite of his little lies that make him feel good not realizing they hurt no one but himself."

And this is the altered reality some of us are trying to point out.

Little lies that hurt no one but Trump: 'It's only one case, it will be gone in a couple of weeks; It will be gone like magic real soon; it's no worse than the flu; masks don't help so don't use them'.

Even after a quarter of a million dead, and countless others who have "recovered" with life-long serious medical issues; 'We're about to turn the corner, we're turning the corner.' And this last just as it's getting much worse throughout the entire country than it has so far, and predicted to get to catastrophic levels. Never mind going to the hospital to be treated for Covid. We will likely be out of hospital beds and/or medical staff for any emergency; heart attack, stroke, or serious injuries. All because of "little lies".

And undermining the very foundation of Democracy by lying about voter fraud. Not only lying about it, but trying to bring it about, by setting up the expectation ahead of time, sabotaging the Post Office, strong-arming officials to change the results, and even after failing all that, still not conceding. And doing all he can to sabotage Biden, the next President - in essence sabotaging the country because of his pettiness. Oh yeh, he's all about country first. Even most Republican leaders are distancing themselves from the mad man. Trump said 'the whole world was laughing at our election'. Actually, they're laughing at him. They've never seen a national leader so incompetent in addressing the ONLY crisis he had to face, not of his own making.

If you can't see the truth in this, it's no wonder you can't see the subtleties of the mess he's made with all of his "successes".

01-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

01-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Over, under of him lasting a year...?!?

From: Tilzbow
02-Dec-20
“However, the stark reality is many here, and every where when polled, complained he was rude, crude, obnoxious, etc..... To a point they couldn’t over look his actions in regards to his results. Like it was something to be proud of. While calling Trump a narcissist!!!! I spend a lot of time still yet contemplating that. As do I of the other points TD made.”

This is why I believe Biden was elected and not Trump. It also explains why some voted for Biden and republican on the rest of their card. Had Trump toned it down most of this year, like he did in the last debate, it would’ve been no contest IMO. The problem was he tried to run the same campaign in 2020 that he ran in 2016 and it didn’t work out for us this time.

From: Glunt@work
02-Dec-20
Imagine back around September if a pollster predicted that Trump would get 10 million more votes than 2016.

Imagine then saying even with those 10 million more votes than last time, he will lose.

Crazy times.

From: Snuffer
02-Dec-20
He didn't lose. Dems have cheated thier asses off.

From: Grey Ghost
02-Dec-20
Does anyone honestly see any difference between the Left claiming Russian interference in the 2016 election, and the Right claiming voter fraud in this year's election? They're both going to end the same way....a big nothing-burger.

Also, if our elections can be rigged so easily by the Left, as some people claim, then why isn't the Right capable of playing the same game? It's not like either side is the bastion of fairness . It's like saying only liberals drive above the speed limits.

Sorry, guys, I've listened to the same Chicken Little wailing from the far right, every time a Dem president gets elected, for my entire life. It's always the same thing...dire predictions like "take a good look at the US, it will be unrecognizable in 4 years!!" and "they're coming for our guns!!", and so on. Except those dire predictions never come true. Both sides of the isle peck away at the edges where they can, when they are in power. The net result over time is a US that is fundamentally the same as it's been for decades. Our founding fathers were truly smart men.

Matt

From: KSflatlander
02-Dec-20
Gray Ghost hit the bullseye again.

The only difference this time is Trump is willing to burn down the house/democracy with election fraud falsehoods instead of conceding that he lost. He is a man-child. He’s no leader...just ask most of his cabinet who came out against him.

From: Will
02-Dec-20
Well said Matt. Very well said.

From: Snuffer
02-Dec-20
Well said raksha, unfortunately the left only knows to hate Trump and nothing else. These folks also believe the russia hoax 100%

02-Dec-20
Matt,

That’s one of your best posts ever, IMHO!

From: Ziek
02-Dec-20
"I can see the Middle East exploding even before Jan 21st 2021."

So what are you saying? Is that good, or bad in your opinion? Because if it happens, it will have been on Trump's watch and because of his policies, and just one more thing that Biden will have to try and fix.

From: elkmtngear
02-Dec-20
Matt et al...

There's a YUGE difference, between one so called "credible witness", that says a guy laid on her when she was in High School, and did some "heavy breathing"... and over 400 witnesses that have given sworn testimonies and sworn affidavits under the penalty of perjury to voter fraud. And YOUR chosen media will tell you that there's nothing to see here (of course).

The difference in my mind...Conservatives in general, felt a need to show up, for this Election. Many Liberals/leftists, felt a need to lie, and cheat. After all, their "examples" in Congress, have been doing it for the last 4 Years, without repercussion.

From: Will
02-Dec-20
Election fraud is a sitting president undermining a legitimate election in the greatest country on earth (before and after MAGA) and some how being cheered for it despite, by all real (IE, verifiable and legitimate - not left or right, REAL) sources.

I love the affidavits thing. Every time this comes up it's unreal... as every time they hit courts they are laughed out as embarrassingly gathered and non-factual. Its not CNN or the NYT sitting there going: cover these up, all the people see reality and we cant let it out. ITS THE COURTS OF MULTIPLE LEVELS AND OFTEN WITH R APPOINTED OR EVEN TRUMP APPOINTED JUDGES showing the claims are baloney. The problem in conversation is that it's impossible - as any conspiratorial thinking is - to discuss or debate with. Because any thing - factual or not - presented counter, is easily wrapped into the conspiracy mindset as further proof of the conspiracy.

We do get to watch frustrating pressers like this though when we choose to, instead of looking at reality, to believe conspiratorial thinking. This poor guy. Note, he is a REPUBLICAN. Hired by a REPUBLICAN. Working for a REPUBLICAN Gov.

From: Rocky D
02-Dec-20
“Does anyone honestly see any difference between the Left claiming Russian interference in the 2016 election, and the Right claiming voter fraud in this year's election? They're both going to end the same way....a big nothing-burger.”

Really, the Democrats bought and paid for the dossier and the FBI used it to obtain warrants while full knowing that the dossier was not a credible document from a credible source!

“Also, if our elections can be rigged so easily by the Left, as some people claim, then why isn't the Right capable of playing the same game? It's not like either side is the bastion of fairness . It's like saying only liberals drive above the speed limits.”

Really, are you advocating breaking the law? Are you actually going to interfere with the Presidential election! Where is the “fairness” mantra for the oft used greater good?

“Sorry, guys, I've listened to the same Chicken Little wailing from the far right, every time a Dem president gets elected, for my entire life. It's always the same thing...dire predictions like "take a good look at the US, it will be unrecognizable in 4 years!!" and "they're coming for our guns!!", and so on. Except those dire predictions never come true. Both sides of isle peck away at the edges where they can, when they are in power. The net result over time is a US that is fundamentally the same as it's been for decades. Our founding fathers were truly smart men.”

I don’t know about you but I have lost lots of rights since the day that I was born. I remember taking guns to school and everyone going hunting afterwards. While our lawmakers have failed to make us safer while operating under the banner of safety! You are like the frog in the pot of hot water. Have you actually seen them do anything for the crime ridden black communities? Absolutely, not! The shit hole they call Chicago is the one that gets the attention but it is the same throughout America. Have you seen them bring up the fact that 13% of a the population accounts for 66% of the crime. Have you seen the issue where the same 13% enacts ten times more criminal behavior than vice versus? The left skirts around the issues and sadly we cannot confront the issues with candor and honesty.

I can only agree with the fact fact about the founding fathers.

Let’s cut the bull$hit and talk some real issues. I see all these people wanting $100K a year jobs but are they aware of the responsibility of a &100K employee? In some states you cannot even pick up a shed antler unless it is in season and you have a permit and there decriminalizing heroin!

From: elkmtngear
02-Dec-20
Will,

So...you're saying 400 people are all liars, because their testimonies have been "poo poohed" by several liberal judges? If you've listened to any of the testimony of these people, you'd see how credible the some of the accounts actually seem. BTW...sworn affidavits ARE considered evidence of voter fraud (from a legal standpoint).

And yes, there are a few Republicans who feel their Political career would be in Jeopardy, if they actually supported the Constitution, and They are running to get in line, to kiss Biden's feet. NBC News...great example there. They'll seek out every Republican that fits that narrative.

02-Dec-20

Southern draw's embedded Photo
Southern draw's embedded Photo

From: Stix
02-Dec-20
I AGREE with Matt's post. I've also heard these predictions too many times. This argument has lost all credibility. Good post Matt:

""Sorry, guys, I've listened to the same Chicken Little wailing from the far right, every time a Dem president gets elected, for my entire life. It's always the same thing...dire predictions like "take a good look at the US, it will be unrecognizable in 4 years!!" and "they're coming for our guns!!", and so on. Except those dire predictions never come true. Both sides of isle peck away at the edges where they can, when they are in power. The net result over time is a US that is fundamentally the same as it's been for decades. Our founding fathers were truly smart men.""

From: Stix
02-Dec-20
England considered Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin, etc, radical liberals.

From: elkmtngear
02-Dec-20

elkmtngear's Link
Here's a little something for the Bowlibs to chew on..."no evidence of voter fraud"? See link

From: TD
02-Dec-20
"take a good look at the US, it will be unrecognizable in 4 years!!"

Take a look at what great things CAN and HAVE been done in just 4 years. Despite a dishonest and corrupt opposition. A corrupt group in the FBI along with a corrupt group of Democrat politicians pushing a KNOWN lie. Then do much the same in a sham impeachment over a PHONE CALL.... when there is clear evidence the guy we may have just elected was neck deep in the SAME place with the same people doing far far worse. The list of lies is long. KNOWING lies. But we are told by the left and corporate media there's nothing to see here. Move along.

Now imagine what AOC, Heels Up Harris, Shift, and all their partners in crime can do in four years. The Swamp is being filled back up as we speak with the most notorious creatures. Biden? He won't run anything and you know it. He doesn't even know where he is and apparently forgotten how to even walk. You leftists voted for a decrepit ol pedophile on his last legs. Great job. Thank you.

Excuse me if I file "nothing to see here, move along...." or " investigating this threatens our democracy" under the BS heading when I heard crickets from you same people over the last 4 years of pure BS and lies. I fully support investigating a highly suspect, corrupt and likely criminal election to make sure they actually followed the law. Makes it much clearer now why they want to defund police....

Incredible when there is actual evidence to investigate and a litany of highly suspect events.... that ALL broke one way. Why were observers denied access in these suspect areas? Where did spikes come from, counting supposedly stopped when it wasn't? Spikes that didn't happen anywhere else across the country? How does any precinct come in at 98% for one candidate? How does a counting machine suddenly count several times over it's capacity? The list is long. Lets take a look at it. If it turns up nothing of solid evidence, then it turns up nothing. I, most all conservative I know can live with that. But as it is we have a body here that died of unknown causes under suspicious circumstances while having dealings with some highly suspect people. Lets investigate. It doesn't "undermine democracy" it is literally supporting an honest and lawful democracy and fully and completely Constitutional. This contingency, this process was foreseen and covered in the Constitution. What ISN'T legal and Constitutional is a bogus claim by media and big tech that THEY declare the winner or that there is even such a thing as "Office of the President Elect". Seems the only thing more contagious than covid is leftist insanity and dishonesty.

Leftist throw around the "conspiracy" accusations like they toss out the "racist" card to try and shut you down when they can't argue on merit and facts. You folks really have a finger on the pulse of the public.... Hell of a group of conspiracy theorists, near 80% of Trump voters think the election was a fraud and rigged. That's 80% of 70 million people. And even 30% of Biden voters think so too. But lets ignore that, wave it off..... Just a tiny little insignificant fringe group..... good grief....

Just because you don't want to see anything doesn't mean people have no right to look. I think many actually fear what may be seen and exposed.... as well as the results of that. As they feared the protests and feared the mobs and fear so many things in their lives that go on around them. I'll apologize in advance if your conformist apple cart is upset. But these are the same folks who blame the people who don't cave in to rioters and looters demands... for all the rioting and looting.

I've dropped my soap in the shower around these "nothing to see here, move along" leftists before. That's never going to happen again.

02-Dec-20
I'm beginning to believe the lefties that keep posting here are just computer bots.

No way anyone could continually be so ignorant.

Biden will raise your taxes, raise the cost of fuel, bend the knee to china and come for your guns. He has telegraphed all of these moves. Everyone can see what is coming unless your brain is broken because orange man bad.

From: 'Ike'
02-Dec-20
I'm with Tiz, if President Trump had acted a lil more civil, this would be a mute point...

From: Grey Ghost
02-Dec-20
So, an Arizona judge allowed the GOP to review 100 duplicate ballots, which are ballots that were either damaged, or couldn't be read by the tabulation machines. The county workers then interpret the damaged ballots, recreate a duplicate ballot, then enter it into the tabulation machines. Every voting center has a similar process for dealing with such ballots, and they represent a tiny fraction of all ballots.

The GOP team found 2 of the 100 duplicate ballots were interpreted and tabulated incorrectly. So, 2% of a tiny fraction of all ballots were found to be counted incorrectly. Basically, it's an inconsequential number to the overall election results.

The judge will decide tomorrow, but I suspect this lawsuit will go the same direction as the 4 previous GOP lawsuits in Arizona, which were either withdrawn or tossed out.

Matt

From: Whitey
02-Dec-20
I believe Bush lost all but a couple of lawsuits to Gore before he won at the Supreme Court. The issue doesn’t make it to the Supreme Court unless one side loses and takes it there.

The US has one of the most corrupt Governments and media in the world today and every one is ok with it as long as it’s not their Ox getting gored. The intelligence community and the FBI have spent the last 4 years eviscerating the most important office in the free world and people are ok with it because they were told a mean man held that office. People are doing just what they want you to do fight each other instead of them.

02-Dec-20
SCOTUS won’t save this one...Say hello to President Heels Up Harris!

From: Rupe
02-Dec-20
Ksfatlander, hey moron you said if there’s a civil war. So that means people are already shooting at me.... I said yes if there’s a civil war I would have no problem fighting against those on the Left who picked the side of evil.

You see you Leftwing nut jobs are so good at lying. You totally twisted my answer to your question about a civil war. Just so typical of you though.

From: elkmtngear
02-Dec-20
That's the point, Matt. This is just a tiny sample, of one type of ballots, in one precinct, that were allowed to be seen. Maricopa County alone has over 100 precincts, with some precincts handling tens of thousands of "unreadable" ballots. What about the entire State? Trump trails by a mere 11,000 votes in AZ.

Add in all the double-voters, out of State voters, etc., and chances are you are looking at triple digits, instead of just "2 percent". Trump is behind Biden, by 0.3 percent, of the total ballots cast.

From: Grey Ghost
02-Dec-20
Jeffery,

I'm a show me kinda guy. Do you have a link that supports your claim that "some precincts were handling tens of thousands of "unreadable" ballots."? The article you originally posted said that one voting center had 104 duplicate ballots, which was considered an abnormally large amount, but they didn't say how many total ballots were cast at that center.

Matt

From: Rocky D
02-Dec-20
“ I'm with Tiz, if President Trump had acted a lil more civil, this would be a mute point...”

Really, really dumb statement! You support a turd because shit floats.

From: KSflatlander
02-Dec-20
Rupe-

This was my question:

“ Civil war...really? Some of you are actually ready to bear arms against some of your family, friends, neighbors? I mean actually look them in the eye and shoot them?”

This was your answer:

“As to your civil war question. Hell yes, without blinking an eye.“

I never said there was a civil war. I was responding to others who were saying it.

If that is not what you meant then say so or clarify. They are your words.

From: elkmtngear
02-Dec-20
"Do you have a link that supports your claim that "some precincts were handling tens of thousands of "unreadable" ballots."?

In just a local election last Year...Pima County alone had around 7000, according to this quote from an article I was able to dig up, from "Tucson.com" :

"Pima County is sitting on about 85,000 uncounted ballots, three-fourths of those being what the county elections department received Tuesday.

"Of that total, there are about 18,000 ballots cast provisionally pending verification, and an additional 7,000 that need to be examined and perhaps duplicated to deal with things such as spilled coffee that make the ballots unreadable to tabulating machines".

Wow...7000 ballots, just from spilled coffee?

If a real audit is ever done, this is going to be much bigger than you think.

From: Grey Ghost
02-Dec-20
So, let's run the numbers backwards, and see what we get.

The official count showed Biden winning by 10,457 votes. Let's assume the 2% incorrect figure applied to all duplicate ballots. And all the incorrect duplicates went in Biden's favor (not very likely, but we'll pretend for arguments sake). That means there would need to be 522, 850 duplicate ballots, in which 2% incorrect duplicates all went in Biden's favor in order to change the final results.

Do you think those numbers are likely? I don't. And I think a judge will have to see a lot more evidence than the GOP has to overturn the results. I could be wrong. We'll see tomorrow.

Matt

From: elkmtngear
02-Dec-20
Your math assumes that every batch of 100, will have a 2 percent error in Biden's favor (funny how all the "anomalies" they keep finding, seem to fall that way).

Some could be as high as 10 to 20 percent, some could be zero. It's worth investigating.

From: Will
02-Dec-20
No Elk. I'm not. Though the judges are not liberal. Some (several) are TRUMP appointees or R's. That's part of my issue with this. These are REPUBLICANS who are CLEARLY saying it's bull crap when actual proof is required to be presented.

Better, in several cases, again, if you read the court transcripts/rulings etc... the clear output of the court is that people are reporting what they may believe, but they are factually wrong.

For example, judges observing that had people actually attended trainings they were INVITED to they would know what they saw was actually NORMAL and NOT a play to mess with anything. It was not a strategy to alter, change, insert more votes or what not. Over and over and over - that sort of thing has been repeated.

People suggesting fraud because a poll worker looked at them funny. "there are no poll watchers allowed" when there were, in fact, poll watchers allowed. "There is no signature verification" when if they had followed the rules their party (GOP) approved they'd remember that sig's were verified the day before. The post master back dated tons of ballots to help Biden... When it turns out only 3 ballots were even moved through the post office in question that COULD have been backdated... On and on and on. Every time so far, when proof needs to be provided, it cant be - NOT all because someone lied, but because they literally had NO CLUE. So, while I'm skeptical, I'm a realist.

Does that mean that those folks saying hundreds of thousands of ballots were messed with or whatever are lying? No, again, it means they are very likely mistaken, given thus far, that's been the case everywhere.... Again, not just according to courts findings, Bill Barr, Republican election officials who took part in said elections etc etc etc. ALSO according to Trumps legal team or GOP legal teams in court (when under oath) who have said they dont have evidence of fraud.

Hey, I suppose there is some possibility. The only actual prosecuted case of voter fraud I've heard of yet was a guy who fraudulently asked for a ballot for his mom who died in like 2015 or something. He was a Trump voter from "Forty Fort" in PA I think it was: https://fox2now.com/news/national/luzerne-county-resident-facing-voter-fraud-charges-after-accusations-of-submitting-absentee-ballot-application-for-deceased-mother/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co&utm_campaign=socialflow

This is exciting. Not because a Trump voter cheated - that sucks. It's exciting because it's further evidence that fraudulent voting is not this easy, uncatchable, epic crime. It's frigging hard to do. The Trump voter caught (in article) was caught solidly before the election even happened - before votes started to be counted. So, while one could look and say: "See Will, that Trump guy cheated no prob, of course there was epic cheating for Biden"... The reality is that a person tried to cheat and the system caught him. Cheating is not easy. It gets caught. Trump voters apparently cheat too - if widespread fraud is in fact a thing (its not) - Trump appears to benefit from it as well. Trump still hasn't caught Ted Cruz's widespread cheating TRUMP CLAIMED OCCURED in Iowa in 16. Nor the cheating that would have only happened had he lost in 16, according to Trump. But he also had his own appointed people look into it in 16 and found it was a zero burger. And his own appointed REPUBLICAN people repeatedly have now said it was a zero burger in 20.

So, yes. I'm finding it mildly unlikely that hundreds of thousands of ballots have been messed with in any way whatsoever. But admit that when people adore their leader and he's told them for years that anything not said by him is not just a lie, but done to hurt him and them by default... And when he's telling them over and over since BEFORE he was elected that there is fraud. I'm certain they think they see it. They have been told to believe it for at least 5 years now.

From: Whitey
02-Dec-20
Will is a mind reader. He knows what half the country thinks.

From: petedrummond
02-Dec-20
I love topics like this i wait about a week scroll down to the end and read all the venom and name calling.

From: Michael
02-Dec-20
Matt,

the number of duplicate ballots would be lower then 522,580 to reach a number to overturn the 10,457 vote difference.

Of the 2% 1 vote was for trump that went to Biden the other was for Trump that was not counted at all.

Per the small sample every 2 ballots are actually a 3 vote swing. Wouldn’t the duplicate ballot total be 348,636 ballots needed to overturn the election?

That is still a lot of ballots needed to overturn the state.

From: Grey Ghost
02-Dec-20
Michael,

I stand corrected on my quick math. My point remains. Thats a lot of incorrect duplicate ballots, all in favor of Biden, to prove intentional fraud in Biden's favor. Does the GOP's evidence raise doubt in a judges eyes? We'll see.

Matt

02-Dec-20
“Really, really dumb statement! You support a turd because shit floats.” Biden floats...LMAO

02-Dec-20
The thing that scares me is not that fraud was committed to elect Joe Biden. But, that liberal Americans seem to be more content to piss on the other side versus ensure that our election process can’t taint our intended democracy due to fraud.

Shadows of men, who hide behind the statements the courts will determine who was right here. Yet, the courts can’t correlate murder of a pre born to murdering a born human. Yep, you left wingers exhibit great thought processes and reasoning by suggesting justice lies in a court ruling. What a dumb statement.

SMH at how anyone, in any party can’t be demanding the results be verified. Especially after the people who’ve come forward with first hand knowledge of participating in the fraud.

This isn’t a Russian drama hoax. This is OUR countries problem. And, if we don’t ensure that we indeed did/didn’t have a problem, you can bet your Butt a precedent has been set to undoubtably have a serious case of fraud in the process in future elections.

Unbelievable.

FWIW Matt. aka Grey Ghost. The ole wise and critical thinker. The basis you used to represent that 2% inaccuracy was accurate enough to accept, would swing Trump the winner in Arizona by well over a point. Think about that for a dang minute. and, the imposed implications of you were actually right.

From: TD
02-Dec-20
Philly alone has a couple of their politicians sitting in prison right now for quite recent election/voter fraud. Two men in CA arrested for voter fraud just a couple days ago. Over 8000 ballots.... just this one case. How they got caught is anyone's guess as most seem to be doing all they can to look the other way and ignore it.

Then leftists tell us it never happens, like ANTIFA it's all just urban legend. huh....

Corruption and fraud go hand in hand with these dem run chithole cities. It's how they became chitholes. Odd how those very places are at the center of the chit show right now when things in so many other places had no such issues.... no mystery halts to counting (when they kept on counting without oversight), have all their records in order, chain of ballot possession, smooth counting procedures and documentation, no refusal of counting oversight, ballot signature and registration matching, etc. No pallets or truckloads of filled out ballots from other states. Others have scores of people born in 1900 and 2020..... many in vacant lots... yeah, seems legit....

Here's a common knuckle-draggin' redneck saying. Don't pizz down my back and tell me it's raining. Leftists and the media have used up what little credibility they've had remaining some time ago. Gone. They've proven they will look you in the eye and lie to you and then lie again on top of it. For your own good of course. More and more people are wising up to it and saying we are done with you, go away. You have become your worst nightmare.... irrelevant. It's why they are dying on the vine as we speak. Several on-line outlets now get better nightly ratings than CNN, MSNBC and others. These people have forgotten what their product really is..... trust and integrity. And currently they have neither. It's a very hard thing to recover once lost, if not impossible.

Many others seem to fear what will happen if/when they do find out what's happened in PA, MI etc. so they don't want to even look. They fear that more than they fear the actual corruption and fraud they seem OK to live with. They will blame the rioting and looting on those who did not cave into their childish demands, rather than those doing the rioting and looting. Civil war indeed. It won't be started by the right, as not ONE march or protest from the right all year was rioting and looting despite the BS. None. In all likelihood they left the place better than they found it. But if I were the left I wouldn't confuse restraint with impotence. Blow em up and let the chips fall where they may.

Rooting out corruption and fraud is not "undermining democracy". It is exactly the opposite. Ignoring and turning a blind eye to it is the very definition of undermining democracy and the fastest route to becoming a third world chithole. It's happening in many cities right now. But it's the people looking into it that are the blame..... SMH....

From: Milhouse
02-Dec-20
Like I said earlier.... cities would be burned to the ground if this election fraud was investigated to the extent it needs to be, because there is no way that turns out well for the democrats.

I always wondered what would happen when the 1st generation of "every one gets the same trophy, and there are no winners and losers" reached an age where they found out that pipe dream wasn't the real story. Now I know. They grew up to be whiney, cry baby dems, who throw temper tantrums like a 6 year old on a maple syrup IV drip.

02-Dec-20
TD, stop you’re making sense...They’ll never buy it! :-)

02-Dec-20
I stayed out of this as long as I could. There was no fraud or rigging or deception in this election beyond what little occurs in any election. (I edited this because it appeared I was claiming none ever occurred which is ludicrous. Here in PA we had two cases of known fraud. Both involved Trump voters.). Anyone who still thinks there was is ignoring the facts presented by Secretaries of State in all fifty states. They are ignoring the facts presented in court where Trump’ lawyers told judges there was no fraud. They are ignoring Trump’s chief of Cyber Security that said this election was more secure than the 2016 election. And they are ignoring Barr’s comments that DOJ found some minor discrepancies but not thousands or hundreds of thousands. And certainly not enough to impact the election. The anecdotal cases brought up by Rudy and others cannot be proven in any court which is why Trump’s team lost or withdrew about three dozen court cases.

Donate to Trump’s Defend the Election fund if you want but be sure to read the fine print on where the money is truly going. You’re just lining his pockets.

I cannot believe how gullible so many if you are. Trump lost. He lost in a free and fair election. His continued lies about the election being rigged keep feeding the mistaken belief that too many of you are sharing here and make people worry for no valid reason about the security if our elections.

A judge in PA told Trump’s lawyers - “ Every candidate has a right to ensure that an election is conducted lawfully. However, court challenges, if any, must be based on facts, on evidence,". None of Trump’s lawyers claimed in court there was fraud even though Trump was making those claims in public.

If any of you continue to think there were concerted efforts to change vote or if there is a security problem with mail-in voting try to prove it yourself in the next election. Try to vote once by mail and once in person. Try to get more than one mail-in ballot. Prove that there are problems rather than take the comments from a misguided crackpot embarrassed to admit that he lost. Don’t let the right-wing media manipulate you. Look at other news sources that are objective like the Associated Press, NPR, BBC or others that present news without opinions.

I’ve seen the pattern here too often. Many of those that disagree with me won’t take time to prove I’m wrong and will resort to calling me names, telling me where I’ve failed, how I’m a socialist or some other attempt to insult me rather than do some research. You guys know nothing about me beyond my postings here. You would be very mistaken to try to stereotype me or label me. But I’m sure that won’t stop some of you from telling me who and what I am.

Have at it. I’m done posting on this thread.

This should help Pat get to 1000.

From: Milhouse
02-Dec-20
That's it. Case closed. Phil says so. He knows. He is just what he has been told to be. Obedient.

From: Jaquomo
02-Dec-20
AP and NPR objective? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!! OMG, I just shot whiskey out my nose, and it burns!

Yep, hundreds of thousands of voters, possibly millions, voted for a Dem at the top of the ticket and straight Republican all the way down-ballot. Maybe so, but it has never happened before, at least not that anyone can document. So, yeah, maybe....

From: Glunt@work
02-Dec-20

From: TD
03-Dec-20
Lou there's dozens of "never happened before" among other statistical absurdities.

That was alot of meltdown just to say "move along, nothing to see here..... ya bunch of conspiratorial racist bastages....." But hey, when you've got Brian Seltzer in your corner then that's that, nothing more to say..... I mean, the media is who wrote the Constitution don'cha know... they should know the actual Constitutional election laws best, right?

Not some fringe splinter group.... some 70+ million people think this stinks to high heaven. Let that set in just a bit. Can't just wave your hand and say "never mind all this...." They deserve to know, not a pat on the head and a "just trust us.... don't worry your lil head, it will all be fine..."

Nawww. Think I'll just ride this train on out and really see what they got at the end of the tracks. I mean, metaphorically a train.... not some kind of real train or the kind of train the left claimed against Kavanaugh or something crazy like that..... or was it a Russian train? Ukrainian train? I forget..... and apparently that's what so many count on..... that you will forget all their lies and how wrong they've gotten EVERYTHING for the last 4 years... and quickly too.... knew we could count on you.....

From: Bou'bound
03-Dec-20
The leaders of our country could learn a lot from the bowsight a place where people are welcome to have very different opinions and get into professional articulate well thought out debate

but in the end of the day we give each other a big hug smile and MoveOn together with unity

the divisivNess out there is discouraging but we set a model here that others should follow

From: Snuffer
03-Dec-20
Bobound is like the drunk uncle at the Christmas party, stumbles into every room making comments but no one pays any attention to him. Phil just moved into 1st place as the top liberal idiot posting out his a$$.

03-Dec-20
Numerous judges have actually had to listen to allegations, allegations that in court so far have not presented any where close to what we read supposedly transpired in this election. So far the judges rulings have gone against trump, and some not mincing words to say no evidence was presented.

Our leading cyber security expert and AG, both long term Republicans, dispute what the president alleges.

You have state election officials, many Republican, certifying the results and standing behind those results as sound.

All recounts so far are in line with the original counts, all machine audits found no tampering evidence.

So, let’s me get this right Lou. We have everything above versus some affidavits by some people as of yet the evidence has not corroborated their accusations and we don’t really know their motivations. We also have some statistical anomalies like trump not receiving as many votes as other down ballot Republicans that can easily be explained as people sending a message that they grew tired of him, which is difficult for his worshippers to grasp.

Then there is also those credible sources like Newsmax helping push a stolen election theme.

Have I got it about right? I look at these two competing views, and I must jump to the conclusion it was a stolen election otherwise I am some butt hurt leftist commie sheeple without a spine? OK, at least my brain still works and I know how to lose with dignity.

03-Dec-20
So, how do you certify results when a large percentage of some states had mail in ballots. Ironically, that is where people are coming forward and making claims they witnessed fraud. Many times, being told to participate.

It’s really suspect to me that mail in ballots were the difference of victory for Biden. And, that is where suspicion should be concentrated. Ironically, while having a push to back date ballots. Because once counted, it’s easy to stonewall and say all is good.

03-Dec-20
Justin,

Trump’s allegations have not just been against Mail in ballots, and you know that. He made accusations of a global conspiracy by Dominion machines that started at Chavez’s gravesite. And as everyone of his wild assertions have been debunked, the goal posts keep moving.

So now it is with mail in ballots, yet no evidence of fraud outside of affidavits. We have actual experienced officials, security people, the AG all having looked into this and came up with nothing. That will never be good enough for some people because they cannot accept the results. In their mind everyone must think like they do or they are corrupt, stupid, leftist etc. in perpetuity.

Trump is grasping at anything, and in the process helping to destroy what he claims he wanted to make great again. It is beyond sad that so many cannot see it has always been about him, not our country!

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
There may not have been any tampering with machines. We will never know. But the anomalies...take Maricopa county, typically about 50-50. Somehow Biden managed to get 500,000 more votes than OBAMA. Voters looked at Barry and said "Young, black, exciting, smart, meh... But this Biden guy, old, white, talks gibberish, no new ideas, we HAVE to vote for him!"

Sure. A half million more votes than Obama. Right.

03-Dec-20
Lou,

Great information out there if one wants to read it. The WSJ did a great editorial on the Barr pronouncement. They looked at many of the allegations. One of the things they stated was there are 17 million more voter qualified adults now, the population of voter eligible people grew that much.

Phil is right, people don’t want to do research, they do bias confirmation, latch on to whatever “evidence” supports their view and ignore everything to the contrary.

From: Knifeman
03-Dec-20
What the cheaters and the nothing to see here liberals have figured out is, judges will never stick their neck out and "disenfranchise" any voters , ever. Once the votes are cast, it does not mater what we say or do, they will NEVER change or reverse the vote. So pile on the made up votes, get them in the pool, and it is over. There is no way to separate the real votes from the fraud, The left knows it, and uses it perfectly. Just research what the ballot harvesters did in Madison WI before the election. Totally against the law, but they did it, mixed all the ballots in with the legit ones and it is over.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
Gee, Frank, I'm sure there are lefties who still think Russia influenced the 2016 elections. Let these boys live in their fantasy lands for a while longer before you start flooding them with facts and reason.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
"Voter eligible". Correct. But in a nation that's basically 50-50, and in counties that are basically 50-50, (except outliers like LA county) it's difficult to rationalize how so many voted Republican all the way except for that one little box at the top of the ballot. Republicans gained seats everywhere, kept the Senate when the odds were against that, flipped two more state legislatures, yet...

From: Milhouse
03-Dec-20
Why does anyone think mail in votes were pushed for, so damn hard, by DEMOCRATS? Did you see any GOP ads pushing, constantly for mail in ballots? Ever see it? No. For exactly the reasons stated by Knifeman above. We were constantly told, by democrats themselves, liberal mainstream media since about April, it was waaaaay to dangerous to send people to the polls to vote in person. The only way to make sure people were safe, was to mail in your votes. Meanwhile, the exact same groups pushed for, and applauded "peaceful protests" with thousands of people packed tightly together, throwing rocks, bricks, frozen water bottles, and whatever else these "peaceful protesters could hurl at police.... all while looting and vandalizing privately owned businesses, then setting them on fire.... you know, during the "peaceful protests" that were lauded by mainstream media, and democrats, for their "courage". If you cannot see the problems with this, you are the problem. All you need to do is ask yourself: Why did one side push so hard for mail in ballots, in the name of "safety", while encouraging thousands packed together to destroy the livelihood of others. I'll fill in the blank for you..... because they're democrats, who will feed you BS at every turn, and tell you to like it.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
Colorado has had statewide mail-in voting since 2013. Does this mean every election has been rigged since then? No wonder we've turned blue. It's all becoming clear, now.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
Ballot seeding and ballot harvesting. Dems figured out how to do it as soon as the panicdemic became the catalyst, and the "objective media" gleefully greased the skids. But it still doesn't explain the anomalies when the election was a small Red Wave.

From: KSflatlander
03-Dec-20
Mulhouse- that is the exact conjecture that Giuliani is taking to courts and the judges are taking him behind the shed for. There is a standard of PROOF.

That pattern all sounds very similar to the birther crap Trump pushed. And idiots still believe that crap. Some here still believe the previous President is a Muslim.

It’s Trumps con job. Just watch his disciples eat their own through the process...it’s already started here.

03-Dec-20
Frank, I do know that. It was just an example of one of the variables that must be considered. And, since people responsible for handling those ballots are now coming forward with statements that fraud did exist, a good one to concentrate on.

I obviously can’t say it enough. However, I’ll say it one more time. The results are irrelevant if a person is content to ensure the process that produced those results were conducted soundly. And, at this point, if people are to be held responsible to what they say, that wasn’t the case.

Matt, you, and anyone else trusting the process, as you say, would have to have reasons to do so. Matt claims Arizona’s 2% demonstrated error as irrelevant. All the while that two percent would change the results. You claim you trust the process. I’m ok with that. However, it’s hard for me to process that because you aren’t fine in any debate or discussion on a hunch. What gives here?

We all do have out opinions and points of intent. But, it’s defining that with people stating they witnessed the fraud, with detailed accounts of how it was being conducted, are now being labeled as circumstantial by men who otherwise hasn’t allowed “circumstantial” to be considered as relevant. Telling indeed.

Just my thoughts.

03-Dec-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Lou,

I hope you can read this link. OK, at least you admit there were more voters. Now, imagine a much greater percentage that tuned out because we have never had so much TDS on both sides, derangement on one, disciple on the other. It pushed people to the polls, BUT a bigger reason is mail in ballots encouraged more people to vote who would not normally go out to do so. There is actually evidence supporting this as opposed to the lack of evidence judges keep repeatedly stating in dozens of court cases now lost by trump's surrogates. And some of these judges are appointed, not elected as suggested above as being a reason they just go along to get along.

If you really want to get this to 1,000, invite KPC back. He's good for 400 on his own. ;-) In all seriousness, one of the statements he made long ago on the CF was you could tell when someone lost the argument as they would begin name calling. It's what we have long seen from Trump, and people just grew tired of it. It's just not how adults should behave. It wasn't difficult to predict women would turn against him in droves, and the tally shows that is exactly what happened. Deal with the facts, how things actually are instead of the way we want things to be. We're not repealing the 19th, so figure a way to get a strong message out there that is palatable to the majority. Nikki Haley just might be able to do that, I have hope!

From: KSflatlander
03-Dec-20
In 2016 Trump professed 3 million illegal votes and that he actually won the popular vote. He formed a committee hand picked by him. A year later they were disbanded with no PROOF to backup Trumps claims. This is a pattern and the root cause is narcissism.

So far the affidavits are not convincing Trump appointed judges nor his attorney general. Barr is now next on the menu.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
"Matt, you, and anyone else trusting the process, as you say, would have to have reasons to do so. Matt claims Arizona’s 2% demonstrated error as irrelevant. All the while that two percent would change the results. You claim you trust the process. I’m ok with that. However, it’s hard for me to process that because you aren’t fine in any debate or discussion on a hunch. What gives here?"

Justin, you should work on your reading comprehension skills. The 2% error in Arizona was on 100 DUPLICATE ballots, not on all ballots. Duplicate ballots are re-created for ballots that are damaged or the machines can't read. They represent a tiny fraction of all ballots, and every voting center treats them the same way. So, 2% of a tiny fraction of all ballots would not change the results in Arizona. I suspect the judge will come to that same conclusion, today.

But, hey, feel free to keep mis-representing what I said. It's comical.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20

Jaquomo's Link
Franks here's a link for you. Funny how Phil's "objective media" and Google have buried the story of this ongoing, multi-faceted investigation by the Georgia AG......

From: elkmtngear
03-Dec-20
"Fraud deniers" are ridiculous...walking around with blinders on. Of course, you do have to actually look, to see all the testimony of the witnesses...it's going to get buried by the MSM .

If Biden gets inaugurated in January, please do not expect 80 million voters to believe it's real.

Oh wait...Phil broke his silence, to tell us that it was a perfectly clean election. Never mind ;^)

From: elkmtngear
03-Dec-20
And Biden wins, with just 15 percent of Counties won in the entire U.S.

Obama had the record low before that...with 22 percent, in 2012. How does that work? Apparently, Joe somehow won EXACTLY where he needed to...

Magic!

From: mrelite
03-Dec-20
Whats comical is that nothing anyone says on here matters, you all are entitled to your political thoughts and have the right to them but does it make anyone feel better arguing their point to a brick wall or computer screen? if so, who is the fool? There is nothing about this thread that is good, it's polarizing, divisive and nothing short of a Facebook conversation.

Whats also comical is that you all want this thread to get a 1000 posts.......................carry on!

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
An ID to vote? Why, that would disenfranchise millions of illegal potential voters! And that's just unfair to everyone who wants to vote!

From: Treeline
03-Dec-20

Treeline's Link
Pretty sure this would be considered evidence/ proof of foreign election interference...

Worth a read. Even for those that believe the MSM cover up. Really interesting where the threads tie back to - and wonder why the same countries pop up that the Biden family had so many business deals with...

There are hundreds, possibly thousands of sworn affidavits from poll workers, truck drivers, postal workers, etc that lay out significant claims of orchestrated fraud. Are they all lying? When it is a felony to provide false information on a sworn affidavit?

Will be interesting where this leads. Made even more interesting by the EO regarding foreign interference in elections in effect.

03-Dec-20
Lou,

Both the WSJ and FOX have reported on that story. What's comical is that there is the proof that safeguards and checks work, they are in the process of proving fraud was attempted.

Trax, you have to work for Trump or are connected in some way. "IF" there was fraud we will never be able to prove it because these perpetrators left no trace. Yes, that will keep the rumors and conspiracies alive forever. It happened, we just can't prove it. LMAO. I am sure there will be many here who will jump all over that one!

The facts are, it didn't happen, and as of yet no proof that it did has been able to withstand any scrutiny. What you just did is the same as saying Trump colluded with the Russians, but Mueller just wasn't able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And we all know a bunch on the left buy into that hook, line and sinker. A chapter right out of their playbook, which I have concluded that is what is going on here. This is Trump's payback, but he is leaving a big trace of it all. lol!

From: Stix
03-Dec-20
Well Pat, we past the half way point to your prediction. I'll keep trying to keep to instigate those easily duped by conspirators.

BTW, I voted for Trump, but enough is enough. The proof is in the pudding, and Trump aint serving no pudding, just stagnant water. And the sad part is people are drinking it.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
Frank,

You should know by now that if you can't prove it, claim it's a massive, highly organized coverup by nameless "professionals" who leave no trace . That's Political Science 101.

C'mon man! ;-)

Matt

From: Ziek
03-Dec-20
"They grew up to be whiney, cry baby dems..."

Honey crap. Really?

Trump is, and always has been, the most pathetic whiner in the history of whining. He's whined about getting no respect this entire life no matter how big he displays his name on everything he owns. He's worse than Rodney Dangerfield, except he does it intentionally for laughs. The American people have spoken. Trump - YOUR FIRED!

From: Patdel
03-Dec-20
Jaqoumo, I've never been able to figure out the problem with voter I.D. requirements. I get asked for it every time, and so does everyone else at my polling place. Show them your id, they check it against something on a computer, and hand you a ballot. I wonder why the left is so opposed to that? I'm no brain surgeon, but I think I have a pretty good idea.

From: PECO
03-Dec-20
"Trump is, and always has been, the most pathetic whiner in the history of whining. " I remember 8 long years of Obama, the Dems, and his fanclub whining and blaming Bush.

From: Glunt@work
03-Dec-20
ID is only important for major things in life like buying a can of Copenhagen, taking a plane ride, getting a fishing license,etc..

The fate of free world doesn't quite rise to that standard.

From: Ziek
03-Dec-20
I just did a little research and found an interesting fact:

If you subtract out the Civil War and WW II, Trump has presided over as many American deaths from Covid as ALL other military conflicts in US history COMBINED, and we are on track to equal all the deaths in WW II. And his response to Covid can best be characterized as denial and lies. Is it any wonder that intelligent Americans have rejected this criminal dereliction of his leadership?

Argue all you want about his other "accomplishments", and most are a matter of opinion, when it really counted, he failed.

If it hadn't been for mostly Democratic Governors, the death toll would have been even higher.

From: Bake
03-Dec-20
This is where I have trouble. . . What exactly could Trump have done to "fix" COVID???

Is the argument that he should shut down the whole country? That's wrong. That's a states issue. Missouri doesn't need the same thing at the same time that NY needs. It's a ridiculous argument

From: mrelite
03-Dec-20
Traxx, mrelite, the best advice anyone can give you is if you don't like the thread, beat it. It is a campfire conversation, happens during hunts all the time.

LOL a campfire conversation, good one! I never said that it wasn't entertaining to watch both sides beat their heads against the screen. LOL your best advice is to "beat it" I think I'll stick around cause I enjoy a good laugh but it is sad to see such divisiveness and it's not healthy debate like you think it is, some of it is but most isn't!

From: Stix
03-Dec-20
BTW, I voted for Trump, but enough is enough already.

The proof is in the pudding, and Trump aint serving no pudding, just stagnant water. And the sad part is people are drinking it.

From: PECO
03-Dec-20
Do you really think we would have been better off with Killary in charge? Trump shut down travel to/from China early on. Pelosi said it was not necessary and Trump was over reacting. She went to China Town San Fran and was on the news telling everyone not to be scared and come on out. You can't have it both ways.

From: Patdel
03-Dec-20
Bake...exactly. And when he shut down travel early, they called him a racist. I not a huge fan of Trump, but a broken clock is right twice a day. Trump never was according to some. Most of it is his personality I think. He's just too abrasive. Policy wise he is much better than Biden. I'd rather have a jackass doing the right things, than a big softy telling me all the things i want to hear while doing all the wrong things.

From: smarba
03-Dec-20
Ziek...that's if the number of COVID deaths is even remotely accurate. Like those who have died of heart attacks with COVID, and motorcycle accidents with COVID...

From: elkmtngear
03-Dec-20
"Ziek...that's if the number of COVID deaths is even remotely accurate. Like those who have died of heart attacks with COVID, and motorcycle accidents with COVID"...

We had a kid, that shot himself cleaning his gun a couple weeks ago. He died in ICU, but he was postive for Covid.

Counted as a Covid Death by the County (my Wife is a critical care RN in the Hospital where he died).

From: StickFlicker
03-Dec-20

StickFlicker's Link
Biden and the Democrats basically blame every single Covid death on Trump, as if the death toll would have been zero under a Democratic presidency. Biden was in charge of the White House response to the H1N1 virus several years ago, and according to his very own choice as the new Chief of Staff, Ron Klain, the Biden led response "did everything wrong" and it was just complete luck that it didn't turn out to be a deadlier disease or far, far more Americans would have died than have done so under Trump's Covid response. See the link for a 47 second video of Ron Klain admitting this in a press conference.

From: Ziek
03-Dec-20
"Missouri doesn't need the same thing at the same time that NY needs."

Unless you're going to build a wall around both, you absolutely do. Covid follows people wherever they go. As soon as you have one case, you have more, unless you respond IMMEDIATELY, or better yet, BEFORE you even have one case. If we had universally embraced social distancing measures as they were reported to be effective, we wouldn't have had to have nearly as much of the economy shut down. It was never either/or. Effectively mitigate Covid and the economy also benefits.

Nobody said he had to "fix" it. The fact is his response made it worse, much worse.

"Ziek...that's if the number of COVID deaths is even remotely accurate."

Agreed. Covid "related" deaths is likely much higher, and will be even worse going forward, if you count those that couldn't get needed medical treatment for other problems in a timely manner, or at all, because medical resources are overwhelmed by Covid. None of that is even acknowledged.

I'm so tired of hearing about how Trump cut off China right away. By the time he did that, the virus was already in Europe. Why didn't he address that? It's more likely he cut off China just to stick his finger in their eye as part of his trade war. Anyone who is still defending Trump's response to Covid, is too close-minded to have anything useful to add to a political discussion. And as has been said, it's all moot. He's been fired.

03-Dec-20
Matt, I didn’t pay enough attention to what you said. Which led to that. No intentional misrepresentation intended.

From: Treeline
03-Dec-20
In simple terms, for the Ziek:

This novel (new) virus to humans was developed, released and spread around the globe by China. Not Trump.

The CDC data, on their website, says 96-97% of the reported deaths from the Chinese virus had co-morbidity.

Comorbidity means you have something that is killing you.

So, based on the CDC data, less than 10,000 people have died from the China virus alone. And many of them could have had undiagnosed co-morbidities.

Trump shut down travel from China against the squalling and being called a xenophobe. He then shut down travel to hotspots in Europe to limit additional spreading as this virus spread across many European countries that had not limited travel from China.

He brought in the “experts” and followed their guidance - even when their guidance contradicted themselves. No masks, masks. Lockdown, no lockdown...

He removed bureaucratic barriers to push for the fastest development of a vaccine for a new virus ever.

Provided medical results of different treatments that were successful in the US and other countries.

Pushed and provided for new treatments to be made available to everyone in the USA.

Mobilized hospital ships to New York and Los Angeles that were not used and mobile military hospitals to other cities that were also not utilized.

Ramped up production of ventilators that were being cried for from New York and California because they had gotten rid of their inventories under the previous administration. Most of which were not used.

Seems like Trump did a damn good job even with the MSM railing about how horrible he was doing. A lot of skewing going on there!

Can’t say much for the Democratic Governors that put infected patients in nursing homes and killed a lot of old people (with co-morbidities), have insisted on forcing citizens to wear masks and stay home, and continued to enforce lockdowns on small businesses that have had to close their doors. Yet the MSM praises them for how great they are.

That was not Trump. He was pushing to reopen the country. Funny thing, he was following the science...

From: elkmtngear
03-Dec-20
"Comorbidity means you have something that is killing you".

Apparently, auto wrecks and gunshot wounds are also considered "comorbidities"...

Oh, and as an aside...death rate in America is almost exactly the same as last Year. Sooo...the assumption that "so many lives would have been saved if not for Trump", becomes a little suspect.

From: Matt
03-Dec-20
"Unless you're going to build a wall around both, you absolutely do."

That thinking would have been absolutely disastrous for the economy. I believe one of the few things Trump did right through this was to let the states and counties address the pandemic based on local conditions.

There are things that certain states did or did not do that were politically driven that have certainly not helped (e.g. unwillingness to implement mask mandates, premature re-openings), but I think Trump's hands-off policy allowed the US in general to strike a reasonable balance between managing the disease and managing the economy.

If only we we had more governors who were smart about it....

From: smarba
03-Dec-20
Bingo Treeline

From: Treeline
03-Dec-20
From the CDC website data - over 90% of the recent infections are of people that have been wearing masks in public....

So, why are we being “mandated” to wear masks?

What is up with “social distancing”?

CDC guidance has flipped and flopped on this, but kind of settled in on - if you can’t maintain 6’ of social distance, you should wear a mask.

Masks hide faces. Faces are unique and the most recognizable feature of our humanity and connectivity to one another.

Ask yourselves, why would certain groups be so adamant that we “social distance” and wear masks when it goes against what has made humans human?

Could it be to dehumanize us from one another?

How much easier is it for people to be violent toward non-humans than something that you can connect too because they are like you?

Where is this going?

From: Matt
03-Dec-20
"From the CDC website data - over 90% of the recent infections are of people that have been wearing masks in public...."

I'd be interested in reading the cited study, could you link it?

From: Michael
03-Dec-20
Stix,

Correct me if I am wrong but these 2 posts are not matching up.

“WW, I voted for Trump the first time, but his display with military tactics on peaceful protestors in front of whitehouse, a blatant constitutional violation, showed that he needed to be tried for treason. He took the an oath to protect and defend the constitution. I voted libertarian for president, but anyone is better than a someone who openly violated the constitution.”

“BTW, I voted for Trump both times, but enough is enough. The proof is in the pudding, and Trump aint serving no pudding, just stagnant water. And the sad part is people are drinking it.”

From: Tilzbow
03-Dec-20
"From the CDC website data - over 90% of the recent infections are of people that have been wearing masks in public...." I'd be interested in reading the cited study, could you link it?

Yes, please provide the link from the CDC website. I oversee manufacturing factories on 6 continents, stay up on Covid and this is news to me. We mandate and enforce proper wearing of masks and social distancing and have had zero instances of spread via contact within the factory since this began.

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
The only study I know is the one where our governor and his husband both wear DOUBLE masks (can you say, "virtue signaling"), and they both got it. Maybe it is also transmitted rectally?

Also, let's not forget that Fauci, the Darling of the Left, said early on that there was no need to go around wearing masks. And he is the expert. Wonder who convinced him to change his mind?

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
The CDC, as well as dozens of other reputable medical sources, clearly state that wearing masks helps prevent carriers from spreading the virus to others. They don't claim masks help to prevent getting it. Not sure why that's so difficult for some to understand.

Matt

From: Matt
03-Dec-20
"Also, let's not forget that Fauci, the Darling of the Left, said early on that there was no need to go around wearing masks. And he is the expert. Wonder who convinced him to change his mind?"

Data? Science? It should come as a surprise to exactly no one that the medical community didn't have all the answers regarding a novel virus at the onset of the pandemic.

Not to mention there was the angle of making sure first responders had adequate PPE, which were subject to hoarding by those outside the medical community.

While it shouldn't, it honestly supprises and disappoints me to learn that people who fancy themselves "high information" are still regurgitating party line dogma 9 months later. Baffling really.

From: Treeline
03-Dec-20

Treeline's Link
It was in a news brief on the CDC website. I looked just now and couldn’t find it.

However, if people have been wearing masks like they are mandated to enter any place of business for many months, why are cases being reported to be “skyrocketing”?

Why would masks even be mandated based on the current lack of mortality from the China Virus anyways?

Worth a review of all the diseases that have been around longer and are still with us and where Covid-19 ranks. Latest update on Wikipedia has it at 0.23 to 1.15% fatal (October 2020 - probably based on data several months old at that time).

Why are so many so willing to give up their freedoms and take other’s freedoms for something so innocuous?

People have lived their lives pretty well over thousands of years with far, far deadlier diseases than this.

From: Whitey
03-Dec-20
The nGeorgia video showing election works clearing out State Farm Arena of media and observers then pulling out cases of votes and continuing to count. This happened after they said they were shutting down for the night due to a water line breaking. If the media has not assigned the left their talking points on this one I have some you can use. Maybe they worked so hard that day they just wanted to have a late night picnic. The ballots were really paper plates and napkins. They were running them trough the voting machines to clean them. Off the clock of course because they are nice like that. Tell every one that doesn’t believe this that they are super spreaders of Covid and a grandma dies every time they share this video. Orange man bad, orange man mean.

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
"It should come as a surprise to exactly no one that the medical community didn't have all the answers regarding a novel virus at the onset of the pandemic."

Nor do they now. But it's still reassuring to know that pot stores and liquor stores are apparently safe, but mom & pop cafes and other family-owned small businesses are not.

From: Snuffer
03-Dec-20
They did expect Trump to have the answers though.

03-Dec-20
"The only study I know is the one where our governor and his husband both wear DOUBLE masks (can you say, "virtue signaling"), and they both got it. Maybe it is also transmitted rectally?"

they both wear double masks because they probably have ass breath.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
I sure wished the guy, who was sniffling and coughing up a lung behind me in the checkout line at the grocery store a few days ago, would have been wearing a mask and keeping his distance. I felt like stripping down in the parking lot and showering in disinfectant after that episode. I can't imagine being opposed to something so trivial as wearing a mask and distancing to protect others, especially when you are clearly sick, like he was.

Matt

From: Treeline
03-Dec-20
If you’re sick, stay home unless you absolutely have to go out. Whether you have the flu, a cold or Covid-19. If you have to go out and are sick, then it makes sense that you should wear a mask to protect others.

But for otherwise healthy people, why?

If a healthy person feels the need to wear a mask, fine. Got no beef with that at all.

If a 95 year old person with co-morbidities wants to risk it and go out without a mask, I am fine with that too.

What I do take issue with is being healthy and told to wear a mask all the time, everywhere, to go into any place of business or when any other people.

That is an infringement of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

From: Whitey
03-Dec-20
According to the CDC you are shaming someone who may have had a health issue. If he was other than white you are a racist. If he was from another country you are a xenophobe. If he was over 50 you are an ageist. According to CNN you are a Trump supporter.

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
"But for otherwise healthy people, why?"

Because you can be a asymptomatic carrier and still spread the virus.

Matt

From: Tilzbow
03-Dec-20
"That is an infringement of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Seriously? Give me a break, wearing is mask is trivial and not an infringement of the any of the above. It's merely an inconvenience for rational people and it's not like wearing a mask is up there with having 2nd amendment rights taken away. Now back to that topic?

From: Treeline
03-Dec-20
Then you have missed the points...

Based on the massive compliance of the sheep, the globalists know just how easily they can control the herd with just a simple, minimally lethal virus and a media that spreads panic.

And just how long do you think you will keep your firearms? With your neighbors ratting you out?

From: Stix
03-Dec-20
Now with the Covid debate we'll have no problem making 1K posts.

Amazing, during the impeachment debate, everyone was a constitutional scholar, with the advent of covid they turned into contagious disease specialists, now they are election judges. There's alot of people posting here that have enough educational training to be billionaires.

From: Matt
03-Dec-20
Some of you guys sound like you have been living under a rock these past 9 months: * The #1 place people catch COVID is within their own household where people generally do not wear masks. This has more recently been accelerated due to a return to in-person school (limited ability to distance), holiday gatherings, and colder seasonal weather driving people indoors. Contributing is COVID fatigue through which people are losing their discipline and putting themselves in situations they should not. Layer on top of that the political nonsense of people who still think masks aren't helpful in limiting transmission or that COVID is a hoax. * People who focus on the death rate are missing the boat for a variety of reasons. Lots of folks who do not die ending up having long-lasting or permanent impairments. Those who come out of it with amputations, stroke complications, or permanent heart conditions are still tabulated as "recovered" from the disease. Some who recover are in ICU for a month or more. There are myriad downstream affects on our health care system, those who provide healthcare services, and those who do not have COVID but rely on the system. I watched a piece by a local infectious disease specialist that is currently focused on treating COVID patients and he referred to this as a "hidden plague" - meaning unless you are seeing the tragedy that is occurring daily in hospitals around the US you may not think anything is really going on. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. * A portion of the time when COVID is most communicable is during the asymptomatic phase of the disease (prior to when people begin to feel sick), so the notion that people can determine without a COVID test whether they are healthy is a falsehood - hence the reason to wear a mask even if you "think" you are healthy. * Which freedoms are you speaking of giving up? The freedom to not wear a mask in public spaces where you can't distance, or the freedom to make a living, build a business, or protect your life savings uninterrupted by those who are not willing to wear a mask in public spaces where one can't distance? As this progresses I see more and more mom and pop business closing down in my local area due to COVID restrictions. If you feel the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask is such an infringement on your happiness that it outweighs your consideration for those whose livelihoods are being impacted, I feel bad for you. The entitlement of "freedom".

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20
My neighbors all have firearms.. Heck, some of them wear 'em open to church. And I'm confident they won't voluntarily admit to owning any of them. So, how will this whole tax thing work again?

Matt

03-Dec-20
I am trying to follow this, let me see if I can connect all the dots...

Some unnamed government types are using the mask issue to soften us up so we get used to being compliant.

After we are good and satisfactorily obedient, they will then have us turn all our guns in with zero resistance.

Do I understand it properly?

From: Treeline
03-Dec-20

Treeline's embedded Photo
Treeline's embedded Photo

From: Ziek
03-Dec-20
So, I was put on this earth stark naked. It is an infringement of MY rights that I can't show up at church that way?

From: Grey Ghost
03-Dec-20

Grey Ghost's Link
I can't help bouncing from my Covid loses thread and this one, trying to figure out where the disconnect is with trivial precautionary measures .

Matt

From: Milhouse
03-Dec-20
Treeline..... perfect.

From: Milhouse
03-Dec-20
On the subject of masks.... there is as much science against them as for them, but the science against them is suppressed, just like Hunter Biden's making millions for himself, his uncle and his daddy, "The Big Guy" , affectionately known as Sleepy Joe. Why can't they, in this day and age, come up with some kind of mask you could wear that would prevent covid transmission, either way? My point is, we've put people on the moon. We get live feeds from Mars. We do brain and heart surgery. Surely, such a mask would be child's play. Then, anyone who wants to anti up, can purchase said mask, you know, maybe even put a $200 tax on it, and voila, you're good to go. Then the rest of us, who think masks trap in dirty, filthy air can take our own chances, and you guys will be safe and sound, and will even have the "I told you so." comeback, at your disposal.

03-Dec-20
Sooo, we went from guns and taxes to COVID and Mask....Cool!

03-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s Link
Oppsieeee....Ballets found! No fraud though...

From: Milhouse
03-Dec-20
We're still on taxes. Taxes on masks. Might as well tax something someone else owns, that isn't hurting anyone, and they already legally own. I think bows and arrows should be next. $200 a throw. I'd never pay it, but a few of you would step right up....guaranteed.

From: TD
03-Dec-20
Hey, water mains break all the time. When they do you clear out the place and call in the plumbers (of which there are no records of being called)..... here they call in the Watergate Plumbers......

Nawww.... nothing going on. Just keep your head under your skirt, don't worry your pretty lil head.... I'm sure the corporate anti-Trump media will be all over this kind of stuff.... they'll straighten it all out for us..... the truth is safe with them, as they are the arbitrators of truth.... honest. Cross my heart.

Ike, I thought I'd put that up to make it effortless for those who prefer to be spoon fed by those politically neutral outlets like NPR, BBC, CNN, etc. Because actually doing some research outside those dishonest little boxes was an incredible amount of work and trouble....

From: bigdog21
03-Dec-20
this went sideways are they taxing covid now?

03-Dec-20
The importance of wearing a mask, even when healthy, can be caused by TDS. Basically, everyone posting on this thread preaching that masks are the answers, are the same people who spent the last 4 years whining about Trump. Say it ain’t so.

Pretty easy correlation really.

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
Ike, the correlation- if the Dems get their way and tax guns out of existence, their dream while still acknowledging the Second Amendment, the only people who would still own guns would be those wearing masks.

03-Dec-20
The same people trying to convince everyone that masks offer no benefits in the fight against COVID are the same people who told us the COVID nightmare would go away on November 4th. How did that turn out?

Quit being so simplistic Justin. He’s just a man, he has called many things right and some things wrong. Maybe some of you need a superhero, most are looking for someone who can shelve his own ego for the betterment of the country.

From: Jaquomo
03-Dec-20
"most are looking for someone who can shelve his own ego for the betterment of the country."

Unfortunately, we didn't have one of those to choose from in this election. Or any election involving career Washington politicians. Obama pretended to be that guy, but quickly showed us what an egomaniac as president looks like in the 21st century with a complicit Congress. He created "Trump". But this time we got a lying, corrupt, confused, senile old goat who doesn't know what state he's in half the time...as the Leader of the Free World....who will make the country better by capitulating to smart, manipulative world leaders and helping to enact the Leftist wish list, as the OP posted to start this thread.

03-Dec-20
Lou,

I don’t disagree with you, but all of the cheerleading for the insanity, all of the attacks on people who would just dare to utter disagreement occasionally, fed the beast until repudiating him put the rest of our checks and balances at risk.

Some here mocked the business press, and a little earlier I reflected on that as I read another WSJ editorial stating trump will be responsible if the Rs lose the Senate because of what he has said has a real chance of preventing turnout in GA at a level needed to win.

This should not be about him, now or ever. It’s about our country. Let’s quit attacking our own team members.

03-Dec-20
COVID 19 is not a nightmare to me. How’s that? Because I practice what I preach. I understand my death date is already known. The cause is a fact yet to come. So, there isn’t anything anyone or I can do about that. It’s called believing in the faith I profess. That’s not a personal jab Frank. It’s just the explanation why I’m not scared of it. Cause when our times up on God’s clock, we are leaving here.

Also, as stated before, in this thread, and will be in the future, the real death tolls aren’t known. Saying any different is being dishonest. Because what Tavis posted isn’t new, biased, or one sided. It happens to be the reality if it.

The true death toll due to COVID 19 is simply unknown. Also, spend time watching people who wear masks. They are constantly fooling with it. Then touching everything non maskers are touching. It’s going both ways. Except non maskers aren’t tugging at a mask 209 times a day, then touching everything. Unlike you maskers.

In businesses that hand out masks, the same person is touching or coming into contact with every single person through the door. Before reaching into their box or bag to then hand you a mask.

The cashiers in restaurants and stores are doing the same. Then touching your food, it’s containers and bag, your receipt. All after doing this how many times before and after serving you?

If you feel differently that is ok too. As I’ve said before, promasker like Phil, both Matt’s, tilzbow, ziek, and everyone else can feel free to stay home and practice what they preach. Or, wear your masks when you do go out. I gotta work or I don’t get paid. I know God’s will is what determines my fate. And, I’ve actually spent some time evaluating the risks of wearing versus not wearing one. It’s a no brained to me.

03-Dec-20
Justin,

The death rate right now is at the highest point. Get real, watch real news not the trump propaganda networks.

03-Dec-20

IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo
IdyllwildArcher's embedded Photo

From: Oneelk
03-Dec-20
Anyone but me find the timing of this covid a little peculiar? The man went through the dousie, muller investigation, impeachment hearings and then covid hit. 5 million in funding went to this lab in China funded by the Obama administration through the world health organization and a molecular biologist described this virus as perfectly genetically engineered.

The man has donated his entire salary to charitable organizations, wrote a personal check for 100k to find a vaccine for this China flu and told our allies that America’s funding to NATO is unfair to the American taxpayer... I’ve waited over 50 years for a president to say that.

Compare this to the president elect “the good family man” who last year made over 900k and documented charitable contributions of $734.

I think we know who’s all in on making America great, now all you camo wearing boys can get in line to sell your guns to those that know better than you do and invest in an electric car.

03-Dec-20
Biden, 'wear a mask my first 100 days'...I love this lil ol guy! Lol

From: Stix
03-Dec-20
He didn't say mandatory. He said he will ask people to wear masks because he has no power to mandate a mask, although he does in federal buildings and he may consider it.

Sounds like the TRUMPLICANS are spreading the FAKE NEWS now.

03-Dec-20
Hey Frank, you talking about the news that is reciting death tolls that states added for financial gain. Not due to having cases on file. But, due to ..... what? Who’d do that? All the news did/does. Without covering the financial benefits of doing so. Sounds like real news to me.

You mean the death toll the Real news is reciting that includes all the reports of hospitals just listing COVID 19 as the death cause. Couldn’t have been complications of heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, etc.... that these people were living with for untold years. Kept alive by marvelous healthcare developed in a private system, with a “vaccine” of medicine that allowed them to live much longer then otherwise possible? Just put it down as Covid. Hospitals have insurance too.

The real news reciting how the experts say to wear masks. When it takes a concerted effort to hear experts who say that might not be the way. These are the same real news that got all this right up to this point. Why don’t they report what other practicing professionals are proclaiming?

The real news who says the death toll is this much while one of the government experts standing beside Faucci was admitting a total error of 25% or more high on the CDC’s claims. That news?

The same news searched out a study from another country to illustrate their point of how bad this was going to be on us. Only after calling this administration every name in the book for taking measures early on to try and limit the death toll? Yeah, that’s good news man. Real reliable if you are a brain dead sheep.

Shoot, I forgot, you read the Wall street Journal. Have quoted them too many times to count. Aren’t they the one predicting a market collapse if Trump were to be elected? They got that one right. There’s no way they’d have a differing opinion on Covid 19 affects on markets either. Oops.

Get real? Look in the mirror. You’ve been on here talking this mask crap for 9 months. For 9 months this country has lived fearful of something because we were told it’s going to kill us. As pointed out, it ain’t likely going to kill anyone unless they’ve ate, drank, and/or lazied themselves into a health condition that allows it. Or, simply medicated themselves to an age that a common cold poses a threat.

I’m blown away by all the declarations people throw around about this virus from the fearful side. As if it’s written in stone. My gosh man, it’s out there. It is going to kill more people. And, if we keep doing the same things that hasn’t worked yet, it’s just going to get drug out while doing it.

FWIW, it might be time for everyone to put on their big boy pants and let people and business decide if/when masks are appropriate. A lot of professionals are preaching that too. Oh, that’s right. That real news you talk about hasn’t reported that to it’s sheeple. It’s gotta be hog wash. Right?

From: Ermine
03-Dec-20
Here in Colorado we have been wearing masks since April. And it doesn’t seem to be helping?

The small mom and pop shops that are going out of business are going out of Business not because of not wearing masks...they are going out of business because our governor closed down businesses in places.

04-Dec-20
Yeah boy, you orange man bad types just reek of noble intent and honesty in comparison.

Stix, you simple minded soul. The man has no right to fondle little girls but he does.

Stop ermine, Matt from California has told you it was Trump not shutting down commerce that was going to kill small business. Not the actual shutting down of small business.

From: Matt
04-Dec-20
"The importance of wearing a mask, even when healthy, can be caused by TDS. Basically, everyone posting on this thread preaching that masks are the answers, are the same people who spent the last 4 years whining about Trump. Say it ain’t so.

Pretty easy correlation really."

Or by science, which the folks who have preaching TDS have been denying for the past 10 months.

Pretty easy correlation really.

Oh, and here is an actual citation of a study linked on the CDC website. I am starting to get the sense that the guys posting damning stats on this thread do most of their technical research on Facebook.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

From: Matt
04-Dec-20
"Stop ermine, Matt from California has told you it was Trump not shutting down commerce that was going to kill small business. Not the actual shutting down of small business."

Funny, are you quoting me? The guy who posted the following above?

"That thinking would have been absolutely disastrous for the economy. I believe one of the few things Trump did right through this was to let the states and counties address the pandemic based on local conditions."

Nah, the sad reality with you is that it is either "asking us to wear mask is a violation of my Constitutional rights" or "put on your helmet and get in the bomb shelter because COVID is going to kill us all" - and nothing in between. It's all black, white, or "cannot compute" with you. Life generally exists in the realm that you have demonstrated for months that you fail to understand or even recognize.

04-Dec-20
I stand corrected, will ask...There you go Steve-o!

04-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

From: Glunt@work
04-Dec-20
I'm surprised at how many people actually look to the President (this one or Biden if elected) to solve Covid. The private sector will be where the treatments, cures and vaccines come from. Government can help with things like Operation Warp Speed but its the citizenry that will actually handle it. The Government's biggest contribution is getting out of the way and fast tracking approvals.

The biggest accomplishment of Government (mostly state level) was ruining the economy. Covid is a bad deal. Covid and intentionally killing businesses, jobs, the economy and freedom is far, far worse.

04-Dec-20
Matt,

Great post!

Here’s the logic by some. People die, obviously God decided more should die so why are we working on a vaccine?

Justin, I will take the proven accuracy of the WSJ over your emotional rants every time.

04-Dec-20
Frank, starting to sting a bit I guess? Point out where it’s not true and I’ll apologize. .

No Matt, I wasn’t quoting you. I was referring to your endless banter on here and rockslide about trump handling this pandemic incorrectly. I’m sure you aren’t being personal about it though. And, I’m sure you aren’t going to declare you’ve never said that.

I consider being different from both of you a compliment.

04-Dec-20
By Larry Keane

Canada’s gun confiscation plan is getting a chilly reception from America’s northern neighbors. Even the guy Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau put in charge of confiscating more than 2 million firearms from his fellow Canadians is at a loss to explain how it will be done.

President-elect Joe Biden might want to take notes. Canada’s gun confiscation horse hasn’t even left the barn and it’s tripping all over itself. No one knows how much it will cost and no one knows who will confiscate guns from law-abiding Canadians. Canadians are not their normally pleasant selves over these developments.

The foresight of James Madison to ensure this God-given right was included in the Bill of Rights can’t be overstated. Neither can one overstate the folly of Biden thinking he can confiscate 20 million firearms from law-abiding Americans whose right to keep and bear those firearms is Constitutionally protected.

Canadian gun confiscation is starting out as an abysmal failure and only promises to get worse. Thinking it would be any easier, cheaper or politically-expedient to do this in the United States is absurd. Suggesting it as a national policy is an insult to the Constitution both President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris will swear (again) to protect when sworn in next month.

Not the Mounties

Minister Blair said it would be too expensive and inefficient for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to run the effort to round-up the more than 1,500 models of firearms covered by Prime Minister Trudeau’s executive action announced without comment, debate or a vote by the Canadian Parliament. Conservative Minister of Parliament (MP) Glen Motz asked Minister Blair how this confiscation would occur and what the associated costs would be. Minister Blair scoffed at the police performing the unpopular task but sidestepped giving a price tag.

MP Motz is still chiding him for an answer. “$2 billion? $5 billion? How much will the firearm confiscation plan cost?” Motz wrote in a tweet. “@BillBlair won’t say, probably cause he has no idea!”

The real reason Minister Blair won’t be asking for Canada’s Mounties to take the task is because they’re balking that it will actually do anything to reduce crime.

04-Dec-20
Why would irrational gibberish sting? We have all had to listen from day one how COVID is no worse than the flu from folks like yourself Justin. It doesn’t even kill as many people as the flu we were originally told. And forget about the lifelong health challenges it leaves people with in a growing number of cases. Deny that too, trump must be protected at all costs, God ordained it so.

After the bodies started piling up the Trumpians said the numbers were exaggerated, they died of other illnesses or they would have died any way.

Then you guys bought this was all a global conspiracy (maybe Chavez started this one also?) to dump trump and it would go away after the election.

The educated rationalists in our country said this would follow the typical virus life cycle and get much worse with winter...colder temps, drier air, people indoors etc.

Now are hospitals are under severe strain, record cases about every day and you deniers are doing what you always do...deny.

What’s really going on here is easy to see. Trump hard core supporters cannot believe more than half the nation disagrees with them and have concluded he is a liability. So the only thing that makes sense is the election was stolen, trump actually won in a landslide.

My only hope is someday these hard core, believe everything trump utters, come to their senses and realize how foolish they were. I doubt many ever will accept reality though.

04-Dec-20
Maybe that’s true to you. And likely the case for some. But, it’s not the pillar I’m standing on. Nor most here.

From: tobywon
04-Dec-20
I just wanted to be 600...lol

04-Dec-20
Like I said, deniers deny, now to include their own posts. LOL.

From: Grey Ghost
04-Dec-20

Grey Ghost's Link
Here's an update on the Arizona election lawsuit. It resumes today. For me, here's where the rubber meets the road, as I predicted:

"Ward had initially asked Warner for permission to inspect thousands of Arizona ballots for irregularities. On Monday, he granted her team the opportunity to review a limited number: 100 mail-in ballot and 100 duplicate ballots.

After the team found two errors on duplicate ballots, Wilenchik filed a motion asking to expand the duplicate ballot review. Maricopa County officials stepped in and allowed the team to review an additional 1,526 duplicates on Wednesday evening.

On Thursday, the parties presented their findings. Of the 1,626 duplicates reviewed, one contained a Trump vote that was counted for Biden. Five others contained votes for Trump that weren't counted at all, and two contained votes for Biden that weren't counted.

Scott Jarrett, Maricopa County's director of Election Day and emergency voting, noted during the hearing that the results of the review showed a duplication accuracy rate of more than 99%.

Extrapolating Trump's net gain of six votes from the 1,626-ballot sample and applying it to all 27,869 duplicate ballots in the county would give Trump just 103 additional votes in Maricopa County, he said.

The Secretary of State's Office later provided the total number of duplicate ballots statewide: 52,897. If the error rate from this week's inspection held, Trump would gain about 195 votes statewide."

Matt

From: Milhouse
04-Dec-20
The bottom line, guns, taxes, taxes on certain guns, covid.... it's about control. It's about being able to keep you in your place, vs the royal, holier than thou "elected officials". The agenda is there, and has been, slowly being put into place. Some people are naive enough to believe it's not about themselves.... it's about others, the troublemakers, the outliers. Some even believe the government has "your best interests" in mind. That one actually makes me chuckle a bit. Yeah, sure, they give a rat's a$$ about you.

Don't kid yourselves. Some of us are tired. Tired of being pushed into a corner, tired of being told what to do, constantly, in a supposedly "free" country.

If you actually believe that a tax will make you, or anyone else safer, yiu are completely delusional. It is completely ludicrous to believe punishing law abiding citizens makes anyone safer. It doesn't. In fact it will make everyone less safe. Because at some point, like a beaten dog that has just finally had enough, there is a segment of this population that will fight back. Now you can debate Biden vs Trump, Republicans vs Democrats, Covid lies vs Covid reality, election fraud, and whatever eles you'd care to throw into the mix..... but you cannot debate that when you finally push someone, try to control the wrong people, for doing nothing more than trying to get on with and live their lives the way they'd like, without being under the thumb of sweeping government control, people will draw the line, and say enough is enough. Ain't freedom great?

From: Rocky D
04-Dec-20
Covid is just another vehicle of division and if the conservative Bowsite haven’t figured it out out our leftist are of far superior intellect and their sources are the only reliable sources. Here is why you are hearing the science mantra! “Scientific socialism is a term coined in 1840 by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in his Property is theft! to mean a society ruled by a scientific government, i.e. one whose sovereignty rests upon reason, rather than sheer will.”

This may sound logical but I have been to Sociology class and have not witnessed a more biased group. Do not deny that the Dems are trying to load their roles through legislation and policy. Why else would they be looking at making Washington DC a state? Why is Joe’s first task is to make 11 million illegals citizens. I wonder why this was not a priority when Obama had control of the House and the Senate.

Why is Obama so vocal? Is it because he is a great American or is it that his eight years as president was a legislative failure? Joe has done nothing significant for 48 years and now he is the great white hope? You liberals used to talk about being open to discussion. Some discussions do not need to occur. I do not need to discuss why a man needs to be a woman or why a guy wants to be with another man. Why would California try to pass legislation that the age of consent be 14 years old? I guarantee that it was not for sixteen year boys! Obama just stated that many of Trump voters are playing the victim! Hillary it was the deplorables. I guess that this is how we play fair? Go read the Democratic platform for the first time and see anything adds up to an obtainable objective with clearly defined measurable goals.

From: Jaquomo
04-Dec-20
Every other week in Denver the government, guided by the best "health experts" money can buy, change the operating hours and restrictions for bars restaurants, and liquor stores. They just extended the operating and drinking hours again, despite the "statistics" that apparently show COVID to be increasing and threatening the very fabric of our nation. Except for drinkers, of course. Meanwhile the mayor tells everyone to stay home for Thanksgiving and not visit family, right before jumping on a plane to fly to his family celebration.

And they wonder why we don't trust their so-called expert guidance.

04-Dec-20
I am an “essential” worker. I have been working through this entire Covid Apocalypse except for when I was quarantined in a tent in my backyard because I had potentially been exposed.

I am in an area with exceptionally high population density. I carefully interact daily with more people than I would like to. I have only lost one friend to Covid, but know scores who have gotten sick... some with potentially life long complications. I see it all around me.

I understand the math. I am not freaked out by the risk that I work to mitigate. I am friends with many police and first responders. Anecdotally, I have heard about the inflation of Covid death numbers.

Having said that, my oldest has asthma. That risk multiplier concerns me greatly. I do not want to bring something home and infect my kid.

I don’t believe that this is binary.

I believe that the roughly one in six chance that there can be lifelong complications is something to rationally be concerned about. I believe that the irrational overreach of many of our government entities is real. I am disgusted by the goody bag pork that the Democrats have and continue to pack into potential relief bills.

I am not an advocate of free for all handouts, but know all kinds of business owners who are being destroyed by these shut downs. I can’t believe that these decrees are being made with no real relief.

Chicago is the home of the political bent that spawned, “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” The political opportunism of the Democrats makes me sick.

I am concerned for the welfare of my family and friends, health wise and financially. I am concerned about the social isolation of my kids and their deteriorating education.

I detest what I see as a lack of prudent, simple, common sense and cooperation all around.

And I am very angry.

From: Michael
04-Dec-20

Michael's Link
Headline from the article above.

“COVID-19 by the Numbers: Mortality Rates in U.S. Decrease, Despite Uptick in Cases”

I am not sure if they are right leaning or left leaning but if true it claims mortality rates are trending down.

I have had 25 employees test positive for corona. They all were back to work after a 2 week quarantine. Of the 25 employees one has diabetes. He has well came back to work after a 2 week quarantine.

Are they all healthy? I have no idea I am not a Dr. But none of them have any COVID symptoms.

I don’t see why people look to the president or government in general to save them. Or worse yet blame them if someone dies. We have had guidelines from day one. Follow them however you want. I don’t wear a mask 100% of the time. But when I do I wear it correctly. I try to stay 6’ or more from people at all times.

04-Dec-20
Matt,

Thanks for that, but I am willing to bet it will change exactly zero minds.

Lou, going back up to where you posted about the 400 people claiming election fraud, I have an honest question for you. You actually expect people to believe in a conspiracy that took tens of thousands of people to pull off (and for which our best and brightest in security can never prove it happened, which begs the question how do we even know it happened then?) but yet you do not allow for the possibility that several hundred may be part of another conspiracy to overturn the results? Can you see the difficulty with inconsistencies like this?

I do, and the only difference between these two possible conspiracies is we have had an exhaustive list from judges on both sides of the aisle, election officials, the AG, security experts, yada yada, tell us one didn't happen.

OB, thanks for your sacrifice and heart felt, reasonable post!

04-Dec-20
And... while small in comparison, I am also pissed off that this crap has lead to some of my bow hunting to be cancelled.

Feel free to call me xenophobic or nationalist. F¥€K the Chinese for allowing international flights to continue to depart Wuhan. I’ll be perfectly happy if I can avoid purchasing a Chinese product for the rest of my life.

And the local Democrats, with their coddling and encouragement of the rioters and forcing the police into “catch and release” policies have earned an ever increasing pile of my ire.

My family will not be left defenseless.

I spent a night fishing and drinking vodka with some old Kulaks who shared their life stories under Stalin. I’ve heard the cautionary tale.

I’m a bit of a student of history. Biden, Harris, AOC, Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff... they all think they’re the new Committee of Public Safety, ushering in a new dawn, unconcerned about their impact on anyone other than their sycophants and blind to the fact that they will give rise to their own Robespierre who will eat the early adopters of the revolution.

From: Jaquomo
04-Dec-20
Frank, you are confusing me with someone else. I know nothing about 400 people. What I do know is that somehow Republicans "won" this election all acoss the country, up and down the ballot. I also know that many, many people were allowed to vote with no verified identity, that mail-in ballot seeding and harvesting took place in many places. Dems did a great job of this. Whether it threw the electoral college to Biden, we will never know. But the New York Times reported last week that by their calculations, Trump lost the electoral college by a total of 80,000 votes from a few major Dem cities. Could 80,000 votes have been manipulated in a few major Democratic cities? Former Mayor Richard Daley knows the answer to that from the 1960 election.

04-Dec-20

orionsbrother's Link
Frank - The date of this event was Sept 26th. By law, ballots in WI can not be legally collected until two weeks prior to an election.

The possibility of fraudulent actions does not require a conspiracy of tens of thousands of people. Biden only outperformed Clinton's 2016 numbers in four cities. That's it.

I'm not wearing tinfoil. I am surrounded by these people daily. "Vote early! Vote often!" isn't a phrase coined by conservatives.

04-Dec-20
Sorry. Link isn't working for some reason.

Elizabeth Beyer | Wisconsin State Journal The state’s two most powerful Republican lawmakers sent a cease-and-desist letter to the Madison City Clerk’s Office on Friday ahead of a ballot collection event to be held in city parks Saturday, calling the effort “illegal” and warning the ballots would be challenged in court and potentially invalidated.

“The threat that this procedure poses to ballot integrity is manifestly obvious,” Misha Tseytlin, former state solicitor general, wrote on behalf of Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, R-Juneau, and Assembly Speaker Robin Vos, R-Rochester.

City Clerk Maribeth Witzel-Behl defended the program Friday, disputing conservative criticism that the event constitutes either illegal ballot harvesting or illegal early voting, which otherwise can’t start until about two weeks before the Nov. 3 election. The cease-and-desist letter does not affect the event and it will continue as planned, she said.

She noted the program involves city poll workers, who are deputized to receive ballots. Ballot harvesting involves the illegal collection of ballots by non-poll workers to be delivered to election officials or ballot boxes. The event also does not amount to early voting because ballots will not be provided to voters who come out. The poll workers will be receiving ballots from those who requested and received absentee ballots.

Conservative lawyer Rick Esenberg, whose law firm has taken up several GOP-supported causes, said in an interview Friday he didn’t plan on challenging the event in court unless it involved non-poll workers or involved distributing ballots.

The Wisconsin Elections Commission received a number of calls and emails conveying concern, but as of Friday evening the WEC had not received a formal complaint about the event, spokesman Reid Magney said.

Nonetheless, Vos and Fitzgerald questioned its legality and security.

“Poll workers will attempt to collect absentee ballots at over 200 unsecured, outdoor locations, and only deliver these ballots to the City Clerk’s Office at the end of the six-hour campaign,” Tseytlin, of the law firm Troutman Pepper Hamilton Sanders, wrote in the letter to Witzel-Behl. “There could be no justification for this ad hoc, unsecure, and unlawful approach that your campaign appears to be creating.”

The statutes cited in the cease-and-desist letter state the ballots are to be returned to the clerk’s office, said Michael Haas, Madison city attorney and former staff council for the Wisconsin Elections Commission.

“In this case they’re to be dropped off to sworn election officials,” he said.

From: Glunt@work
04-Dec-20
If Arizona's vote over all is 99% correct, Trump wins if he gains less than 1/2 of that 1% that isn't.

Thats why finding a 2% mistake in Bidens favor in one small segment of votes was a big deal.

The "mistakes" always seem to favor Biden even though statistically the candidate with more votes should have more errors against him.

Its worth looking at and the country will be fine if we let the challenges play out.

04-Dec-20
Have you seen the security video of the ballot counters in Atlanta. Digging boxes of ballets out AFTER all the observers were sent home for the night.

Boxes of ballots from who knows where were counted when they told observers that counting was postponed for the rest of the night.

There does not need to be WIDE SPREAD FRAUD Only a few corrupt cites swayed this election.

Detroit Philadelphia Atlanta Vegas

There are so many corrupt cities that have been run entirely by Democrats for 50 years. Everything they touch or run has been corrupted and run into the ground.

But now we are to believe that these same cities ran the ballot counting honestly.

Out of the dozens of government programs these sleaze balls run into the ground. They somehow followed the laws on one day in the last 50 years.

It’s a little hard to believe.

These same trucks were used for Obama’s elections.

And Hillary’s. They just didn’t bake in enough of a lead of phony ballets for Hillary because they thought they had a larger margin. They didn’t know Trump would be that close. And Hillary didn’t have 2 weeks to find additional mail in ballots.

04-Dec-20
Rick,

Agreed it doesn't take tens of thousands, but that is what the trump team proclaimed. So we are moving the goal posts again, it seems.

My position has not changed...simply the allegations whether it is tens of thousands (millions actually claimed at one time) or just enough to move required electoral votes (or replicate Nixon gracefully conceding even though we now know the Kennedys stole an election) the burden of proof is on those accusing. I don't need to go again through the exhaustive list of folks saying nothing occurred that would change the outcome.

Honestly, I am willing to support, even encourage investigations that are not some fabricated wild goose chase. But wild accusations have been made, and so far have not produced anything of the magnitude needed to change the outcome.

And Lou, since you brought up 1960, maybe trump could learn something about how to lose gracefully from that experience. Instead, he courts state legislators from Michigan to the White House to try and have them send pro trump electors for the vote. Reportedly something no other president has ever tried. Does he get a free pass on all of this while we attack the other side for everything that St. Peter may raise an eyebrow over? C'mon man, at some point we have to look at our own standards.

From: Grey Ghost
04-Dec-20
"Matt, Thanks for that, but I am willing to bet it will change exactly zero minds."

You're right, Frank. Silly me for thinking that actual evidence that's been scrutinized by a court of law would change any one's minds.

Matt

04-Dec-20
Frank - I’ve only seen references to a conspiracy of tens of thousands in your post. I’ve moved no goal post.

04-Dec-20
Rick,

Rudy, Powell, Trump etc.

Boy who cried wolf is what we have. Threw so much out to see what would stick, they have a credibility problem now. If they don't come up with proof soon, it's over. The Fat Lady is humming...

EDIT: Just read Trax's post. So it's not fraud with voters, it's something more sinister, we know but just can't prove it.

OK, I am not buying. Matt first pointed out the nonsense trying to be sold here with his 'Chicken Little' post. So let me see if I can tie this all in a neat bow. This thread started with they are coming to take our guns away, which Matt pointed out sounds like a broken record since in our lifetimes we have heard the song every time a democrat president is elected, or I guess appointed/selected by the intelligence community? We moved on to a stolen election based on wild and numerous accusations, none of which have been proven yet. We moved on to the government, might be the same intelligence officers (?), using the Covid crisis to train us into the proper compliant behavior, so the complete stassi takeover of our country can be done with minimum bloodshed and violence.

To conclude, there are some of us who don't believe the election or Covid conspiracy theories so we are not willing to accept a big threat to the 2A at this point in time. I for one am tired of sending money to a what may be a corrupt NRA, or at least let the honchos there celebrate life in ways I will never be able to afford. You have all cried wolf too much for this guy. And Rick, there are safeguards here that other countries did not have, one being the density of firearm ownership and a bet that maybe the LEOs will not abide by stupid laws that violate our CR. I mean if they are not willing to go after people not wearing masks and not practicing social distancing, are they really going to go after 200 million bubbas with semis ready to rock? I don't think so.

Edit Two: Some of you I think are just trying to incite others into doing what you lack the courage to do, or maybe there are government plants here to try and identify the crazies who might come up with dumb plans like kidnapping a governor. I bet those loons had listened to similar stuff we see here and were going to take action to save America as well. LOL!

From: Stix
04-Dec-20
As a past Trump voter with predominantly conservative leanings, I don't buy anything the Trump team and supporters (Trumplicans) are selling. If you make accusations on a time sensitive issue such as an election, you must provide evidence to get the American people behind you. You can't hide your hand like a poker game, because people will think you are bluffing. I am willing to let the legal challenges play out, but move forward with the transition. But the fact that many of these legal challenges are being rejected, many of which from Trump appointed federal judges, says volumes regarding their credibility.

From: Jaquomo
04-Dec-20
"Move along, nothing to see here" seems to be the mantra of the Left and their media foot soldiers. How different from 2016-2019 when they tried everything to throw out the president and cast doubt on the validity of the election.

To Trax's post: Remember Peter Strzok's famous texts while he was baselessly investigating the Trump campaign before the election? That "we" would make sure Trump is not elected? Strzok is now out of the loop (we hope, should be in prison) but others in the "we" may have figured out where they failed in 2016 and fine-tuned their so-called "insurance policy". This is not a wild conspiracy theory. It came straight from one of the top officials in the FBI. He wasn't working alone.

When the dust settles, if nothing more is accomplished than improving the integrity of our electoral system in cities run by the infamous Democratic Machine, this entire sordid exercise will have been worth it.

From: Grey Ghost
04-Dec-20
""Move along, nothing to see here" seems to be the mantra of the Left and their media foot soldiers. How different from 2016-2019 when they tried everything to throw out the president and cast doubt on the validity of the election, while the right was howling the same mantra."

Fixed it for you, Lou. ;-)

Matt

04-Dec-20
Great point Lou. That’s the goal. Ensuring our process. It appears to be analogically poplar to compare anyone who doesn’t agree this is just Trumps way, to brain dead bubbas that are ignorant of reality.

From: Glunt@work
04-Dec-20
People have no problem believing a murder is commited over a $50 drug deal in the bad part of town but can't fathom smaller crimes when the stakes are the biggest possible.

From: TD
04-Dec-20
The efforts to actively AVOID the mounting evidence that there was plenty of fraud and worse in several strategically placed areas, (strategic for many reasons, not the least that they had corrupt individuals in place already) is very telling. "there's no evidence!" and when video evidence and sworn affidavits, missing bills of lading, statistical aberrations, disappearance of the election tech CEOs who agreed and were scheduled to testify and their very offices gone, etc are brought forth..... the eyes slam shut, fingers go to the ears and mantras of "our elections are honest" are chanted over and over. Why? Seems a bit like the spouse who is aware of their partner's cheating but refuses to investigate further and catch them, so as to "keep the peace in the family...."

Why the lack of will to even LOOK? I'm smelling fear of what they will see and what will happen then more than any disbelief of corruption by the terminally TDS.

Instead of being stuck "between a rock and a hard place" we are seemingly stuck between cowards and scoundrels....... from both sides.....

04-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
“ As a past Trump voter with predominantly conservative leanings, I don't buy anything the Trump team and supporters (Trumplicans) are selling. If you make accusations on a time sensitive issue such as an election, you must provide evidence to get the American people behind you. You can't hide your hand like a poker game, because people will think you are bluffing. I am willing to let the legal challenges play out, but move forward with the transition. But the fact that many of these legal challenges are being rejected, many of which from Trump appointed federal judges, says volumes regarding their credibility.”

Here we thought you were just a troll! Things that make you go hmmmm!

04-Dec-20
OK, I am starting to become paranoid like some of you. Is it true that Don junior wants to head the NRA? Hmmmm...this thread is starting to make more sense now.

From: TrapperKayak
04-Dec-20
Stix: 'England considered Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin, etc, radical liberals.' I couldn't agree more. And who lost??? England lost the AMERICA. Now with Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Harris, the Squad, all the rest of the radical libs, AMERICA WILL LOSE, TO CHINA...

From: Whitey
04-Dec-20
People that use terms like “settled in a court of law” or use the term “justice” to imply that anything but the legal process was satisfied are idiots, liars , naive or have never seen the system in action.

I hope that if Biden gets inaugurated that Trumps last day in office he gives a speech declaring that Biden is an illegitimate president and a criminal then release every document retorted to the Russia collusion hoax . Let Biden go into office and deal with the same shit Trump went into office dealing with. Barr already took care of the the special council that will tie up Biden . I would like to see another investigating his money laundering.

From: Matt
04-Dec-20
"No Matt, I wasn’t quoting you. I was referring to your endless banter on here and rockslide about trump handling this pandemic incorrectly. I’m sure you aren’t being personal about it though. And, I’m sure you aren’t going to declare you’ve never said that."

I know you are not quoting me, because you are ascribing things to me I don't believe and hence have never posted. Quite the opposite in fact - just as I demonstrated above.

I have not been critical of Trump for his handling of the pandemic - even though he does bear responsibility for misleading people about its severity.

What I HAVE been critical of from the beginning is people who haven't taken personal responsibility to avoid being part of the problem. The people who parroted that it was just like a cold or the flu, that it was a hoax, or denying that the simple act of wearing a mask could make a difference.

Ironically, it is those people who blasted local governments early on for policy that adversely impacted businesses -including you - who are now the ones driving the current surge and really putting the screws to small business.

My preference is to think your grey filter is broken so you lack the capacity to understand complex positions rather than to believe you are intentionally being dishonest to win an internet debate.

From: TrapperKayak
04-Dec-20
Matt, could he have possibly been quoting the other Matt, Grey Ghost?

From: Grey Ghost
04-Dec-20
Trapper,

No, it's not possible, unless Justin is more senile than Biden is. I've never been on Rockslide, and I've never criticized Trump for his handling of Covid, other than his downplaying of its severity early on.

Matt

From: Jaquomo
04-Dec-20
GG Matt, the difference was, while the Right was saying "move along", the Left and the media were obsessed with three years of continuous Congressional investigations, false stories attributed to "unnamed sources", and the Mueller investigation. All of which produced nothing substantive.

Let's put the full weight of the "objective media", the House of Representatives, the FBI, and a Special Prosecutor on this voting anomaly issue - and maybe the Biden Family Graft Foundation while they're at it - for three years and see what they dig up. Which would NEVER happen in 2020 America. Maybe 2022 after Republicans retake the House.

Meanwhile, the media is asking tough questions of Biden, like "Which do you like better: puppies, ice cream, or ponies?"

From: TD
04-Dec-20
Same girl in GA as in Ike's link/video above, caught running boxes of hidden ballots from under the table after it was stated counting was stopped for the day and told everyone go home.... while a couple of them stayed back for hours while running these hidden ballots. How do you guys say it? Oh yeah..... nothing to see here, move along.....

This time she is caught taking and sneaking out a thumb drive off a table. No worries though.... she seems legit....

From: Bou'bound
04-Dec-20
Tax doesn’t matter if you can’t find ammo

04-Dec-20
Matt, you on Rokslide?

From: Grey Ghost
04-Dec-20
If you're talking to me, Justin, no I've never been on Rokslide. I don't even know what it is. My online presence is limited to the Bowsite, and a Jeep forum that I frequent.

BTW, I'm fine with being addressed by my handle, or by GG, if that will help to keep communications straight.

Matt

04-Dec-20
TD - Ha! Nothing suspicious or questionable about someone furtively palming and pocketing a flash drive in a tabulation center.

From: Grey Ghost
04-Dec-20
Lou,

I'm not naive, nor biased enough to think that only one side of the isle is capable of fabricating baseless allegations and investigations. To me, the red team is now using the same playbook that the blue team used in 2016 and on. I also think the end result of the play will be a 4th down and a punt.

Matt

From: Michael
04-Dec-20
Send the election to the house. Let them pick the president.

It would be fair we voted for who is in the house;)

04-Dec-20
Can’t do that Michael, cities would burn down and stuff....

04-Dec-20
Looks like FOX reported nothing to the GA suitcase allegations. Next...

From: Michael
04-Dec-20
Pelosi herself said they were ready to pick the president if it made it to the house.

04-Dec-20
I think this is a hill to die on. If you don't think this election was heavily corrupted and stolen you are too dumb to persuade with some clever point(s) . It has been proven to us in the last months that rule of law and the constitution means little to the Leftist's that call that are the Dumbocrats . They get in the presidency the type of damage that can and will be done will be irreparable the types of programs they will unleash on their 'revenge tour" will make your head spin. It seems to me the evidence is mountains higher than what drove the Muller Investigation for years....ahhhh cause there was none... Lets unleash the bottomless legal pockets of the federal Govt on this....if this stands and it just goes with a whimper we are done..... elections are done and the belief in the system is done...IMHO Trump would have won not by only a historic landslide buy one so embarrassing it would have shocked the world

From: Milhouse
04-Dec-20
If you're not a liberal when you're 18, you don't have a heart. If you're not a conservative when you're 30, you don't have a brain. Wisdom.

From: Milhouse
04-Dec-20
Some of you laugh..... nervously, about the comments made about lines being drawn. Some of you probably think it can't/won't happen. Let's just throw some numbers around. The world's armed forces control about 133 million (approximately 18 percent) of the global total of small arms. I got this from Wikipedia. The Small Arms Survey stated that U.S. civilians alone account for 393 million (about 46 percent) of the worldwide total of civilian held firearms. This amounts to "120.5 firearms for every 100 residents." These are 2018 numbers. All from Wikipedia.

Some of you are content to live subservient lives, letting elected officials tell you when you are allowed to travel, go outside, what you can buy/own.... and they'll control you by "giving" you something, then threatening to take it away if you don't fall in line. And you will fall in line. You'll take being pacified, and bribed, with your own money, and told decisions are only made with your "best interests in mind" . You will go along with ALL OF IT. And your kids will have it worse.....

04-Dec-20
How did Trump walk all over the constitution,,,, specifics not just platitudes....

If you don't think there was serious and apparent corruption I will use my previous statement... "If you don't think this election was heavily corrupted and stolen you are too dumb to persuade with some clever point(s)" Oh BTW I was in law enforcement and LE training for many years actually teaching investigations at times, I'm not some tin hat simpleton shaking my fist at the tv. When looking at an investigation one looks at it overall and the details. What I see with a HUGE effort by MSM and tech overlords for me not to see it stinks to high heaven. I know many of the comment makers on this thread personally that vehemently disagree with you. They are all bright, informed, accomplished and deeply love this country.

Would you agree that many many people don't agree with you. For the integrity of the future elections and belief in our systems it would be wise to have a vigorous investigation...to "clear the air" After all your side got a multi year 10's of millions of dollars bottomless pocket full use of the Federal Govt that came up with zero. Doesn't that seem wise and fair cause if you have been reading this thread at least half the country have lost faith in the integrity of the elections if we take Phils advice and "Move on" Kinda like the Dems moved on????? This silly gesture lets just move on and come together after their behavior over the last four years...... the hypocrisy would be laughable if it wasn't so stone cold serious...

From: Milhouse
04-Dec-20
Exactly what might be the final straw for dems? When would enough be enough? Is there such a point? Habitat..... do you personally have a point where government intrusion on your life would cause you to say, "That's it, I've had enough." Or will you always be fine with cowering to someone telling you what to do, and when to do it?

04-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Yup...

04-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Back to topic...

From: Irishman
04-Dec-20
This election wasn't even close at all. Trump lost by over 6 million votes. Can you imagine the crying that would be going on now if this was an Al Gore scenario? I was no Al Gore fan, but he clearly won the popular vote, and didn't become President because of a few hundred votes in Florida, with a ballot system that was incredibly confusing. Can you imagine what nonsense Fake Fox News would be spewing now. Anyone still spreading garbage that Trump somehow got robbed, should be embarrassed. We all knew that draft dodging Trump wouldn't be man enough to admit defeat, but it's time some of you folks moved on. Trump lost - "bigley" really "bigley". Not only did he lose, but just about all of the states that he loves voted against him, New York, New Jersey, California, Nevada, etc. He probably considers most of the states he won as the "shit hole" states. This is supposed to be a bowhunting forum, not a forum for crying on. And all this talk about taking guns away, sure just like Obama was going to. Then Obama was going to do it in his second term. It didn't happen. It won't happen. It is just the same old BS, and people fall for it every 4 years.

04-Dec-20
Hillary won the popular vote also, what’s your point, besides hating on the Trumpster...

04-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

From: Milhouse
04-Dec-20
Some of you really need a tutorial on the Electoral College.

It's almost as if you are too stupid to understand it.

04-Dec-20
Milhouse,

I will always be fine with cowering to Jesus.

I am not fool enough to say on a public forum where a line in the sand should be drawn. But this certainly ain’t the hill I am going to die on.

Ike, his point is the trumpster is a loser and cry baby, the crying caused by painful bone spurs, I guess that’s where he drew the line, eh?

04-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Going to be a awesome 4 years....

From: Milhouse
04-Dec-20
So, you are a little bit afraid of what your government will do? Cuz that's what it sounds like. Nobody said you had dirt on the Clinton's....... lighten up.

04-Dec-20
Irishman I know you were likely drunk during Civics class but we have electoral vote and not a popular vote. And the difference in those area is like 80,000 and with the history and evidence we see that is a teeny weeny fraction of 330 million and little league cheating for the leftist that are hellbent to destroy out country. You cool with Harris becoming the Prez????

04-Dec-20
I won’t live long enough to be worried about what’s going to happen down the road . But keep blowing in the wind, that’s what you have learned to do from your hero.

04-Dec-20
Hey Matt from California, are you on Rokslide?

From: TrapperKayak
04-Dec-20
They never got over Hillary losing and have sabotaged the presidency ever since then. This election was no different than the bogus russian collusion hoax. A huge cheating whiney ass scam, but well financed crooks.

04-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

04-Dec-20
Another case dismissed, this time NV. Here’s part of what the judge wrote;

“ Contestants did not prove under any standard of proof that any illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, for any other improper or illegal reason, nor in an amount equal to or greater than 33,596, or otherwise in an amount sufficient to raise reasonable doubt as to the outcome of the election,” Russell said Friday afternoon.”

From: yooper89
04-Dec-20
*Removes Community Forum due to it being detrimental to the site*

*main page turns into Community Forum*

From: Owl
05-Dec-20
I believe that's why the CF is gone, yooper89. No matter how scary, the town is a more exciting place when the asylum is shuttered.

From: Grey Ghost
05-Dec-20
I guess yooper would prefer another "Fixed vs MBH" thread, or maybe another "Score this buck" thread, those are always wildly entertaining.

Matt

From: Rocky D
05-Dec-20
It’s not like we cannot assess the current situation ourselves but this discussion is focusing on CNN talking points. Question is?

Do you like the direction that the country has gone the last twenty years. Do you like cities determining the fate of your elections? Do you like rioting in the streets? Do you want decriminalization of hard drugs? Do you ant to have a conversation about reparations? Why are they talking science but they listen to the emotional outcry of the animal rights movement. Has long we let them control the conversation we are doomed.

From: tobywon
05-Dec-20
When the advertising before elections say “go out and vote” and that “every vote counts”, even a small number of miscounted votes are wrong. If I was part of the 33k votes that were erroneous in NV, I’d be pissed. Hell, I live in a state that I’m not sure my vote will ever count.

From: Grey Ghost
05-Dec-20

Grey Ghost's Link
Judge Dismisses GOP Bid to Undo Biden's Victory in Arizona

Another Judge decides there's nothing to see in Arizona. Either the GOP has some really bad attorneys, or they don't have squat for evidence.

Matt

From: Rocky D
05-Dec-20
It’s not like we cannot assess the current situation ourselves but this discussion is focusing on CNN talking points. Question is?

Do you like the direction that the country has gone the last twenty years. Do you like cities determining the fate of your elections? Do you like rioting in the streets? Do you want decriminalization of hard drugs? Do you ant to have a conversation about reparations? Why are they talking science but they listen to the emotional outcry of the animal rights movement. Has long we let them control the conversation we are doomed.

From: Jaquomo
05-Dec-20
The CF was getting ugly with the insults. This thread is civil. I understand why Pat did what he did if the "cancel culture" is signing his paychecks....

05-Dec-20
HH,

How many times did you vote this last election? As many times as you have shown back up here under false registrations is it a good assumption you found your way around all the voting security also?

Funny how you keep lecturing how dishonest dems are, under multiple false registrations. You must be a dem?

From: Bowone1
05-Dec-20
"Democrat Judge " Dismisses GOP bid to undo Biden victory in Arizona !!! Imagine That !!!

From: KSflatlander
05-Dec-20
Jaquomo- how is do you think this thread is civil? I see civility with some exchanges but there are plenty that are not. There has been posts about civil war. Name calling all over the place. What about posts about women and denying them the right to vote or how some talk about our vice-president elect just because she is a women? How might that make any women bowhunters feel? I mean the double standard. Trump doesn’t have the best track record when it comes to his personal relationships but yet men here praise him for it. But the blast the vice-president for her personal life.

It is so ironic when there are threads about how our hunting coalition is shrinking. It is unbelievable that some here can’t understand why. Until some on here with clout start calling out the lack of civility and the exclusionary/misogynistic/homophobic/racist comments our coalition with wilt away. Do some of you think there aren’t women, minority, or non-Christian bowhunters in the U.S. Do you really think all bowhunters are Trump supporters?

This thread and this site are not civil. You don’t think so then try to have a dissenting opinion on any thread.

From: Jaquomo
05-Dec-20
Compared to what the CF had degenerated into, this thread is Sunday School.

05-Dec-20
The day Trump is photo’ed and video’ed feeling up young girls over and over is the day that there no longer exists a difference in their personal life.

The day that Trumps son has emails from foreign companies stating he needs to pay the big guy with some bribe money, is the day the difference no longer exists between the twos personal life.

The differences distinguishing why Trump still have these men’s support while Biden doesn’t, concerning their personal life, is stark and too obvious to suggest otherwise with anyone.

05-Dec-20
Lou,

Whitey just made Ryan's point.

Hey Justin, was Biden ever recorded saying what he would do to a female's private parts or have a relationship that was Stormy or that he would date his daughter if he wasn't her father? Your bias keeps popping out. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't want either man dating them. But a good place to start is to have the same standards to judge peoples' behaviors regardless of their political leanings. At least that is what is included in my definition of integrity.

From: Ziek
05-Dec-20
"I understand my death date is already known. The cause is a fact yet to come. So, there isn’t anything anyone or I can do about that. It’s called believing in the faith I profess. ... Cause when our times up on God’s clock, we are leaving here."

So life is already preordained? If that's true, what are you arguing about. You have nothing to add to this discussion. No other reasoning necessary. We don't need the 2nd Amendment. At least you don't. If someone attacks you and you can't defend yourself, it was God's will. I take it you've never been vaccinated for anything and won't get the Covid vaccine, or never been to a doctor or hospital. If you had a car wreck and your family was bleeding to death, and screaming in pain, when the ambulance arrived, you would send them away, because it's God's will. Or is God's will somewhat selective?

For all that, if He wanted Trump to win, then he would have.

05-Dec-20
Ziek,

Best response ever to what I called irrational gibberish!

HH, he's on another site arguing with himself again. ;-)

From: Whitey
05-Dec-20
Habitats all bound up too!

Habitat Jesus hung around with whores and thieves. If he can do it so can you.

From: sundowner
05-Dec-20
Pat, do you see how badly the Community Forum is missed.......and NEEDED?

05-Dec-20
Whitey,

Hanging around is not how I would describe what Jesus did. Please, quit comparing trump's behavior to Jesus. You already look terrible with wanting to repeal the 19A, go chill a little;-)

From: TD
05-Dec-20
Huh..... thread starts out as a question of the best defense against the coming attack on the 2nd amendment and starts to take a common left turn into trying to restrict the 1st..... color me shocked..... oops, sorry.... can you still say "color"?

Only the thinnest of skins would think this was an "uncivil" discussion. When you hold it up and look at it..... Those squealing and complaining are among those dishing out as much or more "uncivilly" than they are taking on. If you can't handle the shot to your ego of having your beliefs questioned it's a sign you likely shouldn't be posting them on a public forum. Man up. (can you say "man" still?)

None of these court cases are any surprise. It was stated how it would proceed weeks ago, It will more than likely go to SCOTUS if they will hear it, which they have already alluded they might. Florida was not done at the state courts. State courts are cowards for the most part where the mob is concerned. (SCOTUS can be as well.... see: John Roberts)....and any decisions in lower courts can and will be challenged forever along the chain (see: wolf delisting) as running out the clock is a powerful tactic right now.

As with Covid..... the goalposts for this stuff are on wheels, some on tracks. I just wish they would gather just a bit of honesty about them and admit there never were any goalposts to start with.... it's all just a bluff to get everyone to do what we want them to..... once again, for your own good of course...

The election cases are not about PROVING one thing or another. Without being able to put those they suspect on the stand for questioning under oath and the ability to subpoena records and such there will be no "proof" as there will be no real investigation. Criminal convictions are not proven outside of trial.

It has already been shown and proven they will simply put up yet more cardboard to cover their windows and the media will do all they can to bury it along with Hunters laptop of shakedowns and pedophilia, Hillary's cellphones and servers, etc. Buried, with not so much as a marker....

You want to know the extent of the media "investigation" into this GA video that has been "debunked"? The reporters called those in charge of that office and asked them. Apparently the Foxes said they saw nothing going on in that hen house and in fact there were no chickens at all in it when they showed up, just piles of feathers..... That is the extent of their "investigation". All of it. A phone call. To the people in charge of the hen house. They literally did all they could to AVOID investigating it and staying with their narrative..

The Foxes said no one told anyone the counting was done for the night, told no one to leave..... when there is local news crew in the building at that exact time with more video evidence reporting how even though counting had been going along smoothly all day, there was some snag they ran into, a water line break or something, (of which there is no evidence of any repair calls, nor any damage.... plugged toilets do not elicit building evacuations) and counting had to be stopped and people had to leave for the night. So what they told those reporters, who did NO investigation into what happened, was demonstrable BS. Oh yeah, one more thing... those boxes that appeared out from under those tables after everyone had left, well, they were in fact NOT suitcases. There. That clears everything up....

The people who signed affidavits attesting to this and many other events did so under penalty of law. I want workers and supervisors under oath and questioned. Under oath, as in go to prison if you're not telling the truth, the whole truth. As the people who presented the, yes, evidence, did. THEN we can get down to something serious instead of "nothing to see here, move along..." In essence, that is what many of these court cases are about, they want to call these people, examine records and get their SWORN testimony.

Hopefully it will get there and none will have Epsteined themselves.....

From: TD
05-Dec-20
WRT real investigations and why many of the cases are being brought..... just saw a flash that Giuliani has been granted court permission in MI to do a forensic audit of the voting machines. Hopefully it's true, the doors kicked open and real investigations can proceed no matter how they come out. My level of trust in the dems and media is a negative number, and getting larger.

That's an issue much of the public are either ignorant of or dishonest about, depending. A "recount" is pretty meaningless as it simply counts the same ballots, legal or not, over again. An in depth audit reveals so much more. Especially when the state suddenly decides it's a great idea to send fistfuls of ballots to essentially "occupants". States who's primary mail in's were running near 10% rejections (some over) in places suddenly less than 1% rejections in the same areas with many times more ballots to count.

05-Dec-20
Frank, not that I’m aware of. But, I’m willing to be that every man on this thread has looked at a women, besides the one he was with, in a lustful way.

I’m not suggesting trump’s remarks were stellar. But, I’m not dumb enough to suggest that it’s a weakness he shares alone. Nor, dumb enough to believe that every heterosexual man alive hasn’t done nearly the same at one time. Most of us simply wasn’t recorded doing so.

And last but not least, I’m not sure why any of that matters. I wasn’t on board to hang Clinton either until it became obvious he lied about it to Congress. Affairs or flings are personal business that only involves those people. And not a instance that any person should confuse with the actions of an adult preying on minor children. Frankly, I’m shocked you even brought it up.

So, I don’t judge anyone for their discretions as long as it doesn’t include children. IJesus wrote a parallel analogy to my basis of reasoning. So, his reasons out ranks your attempt to equalize the actions of a grown man expressing lust towards a grown woman and a grown man expressing lust towards young girls. It’s not even remotely the same.

I also think Jesus spoke of people like you concerning the prostitute. And, you are doing a good job proving his point.

05-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
I love this lil ol guy...

05-Dec-20
Ziek, the problem with talking to people like you and Frank is you both break things down into situations that aren’t akin to the discussion.

From: Grey Ghost
05-Dec-20
So, back to the actual topic. Biden's plan apparently includes a mandatory registration of firearms. After all, how can they tax them, if they don't know you own any. How many of the millions of gun owners do you think will willingly register their weapons? Heck, just look at how many refuse to wear a mask, like 3rd graders being told to put on a jacket before going outside. They're not going to register their firearms. And I won't either...umm...if I owned any, of course. ;-)

So, how will this whole tax thing work, again?

Matt

From: itshot
05-Dec-20
i read the jibberish at op's link, typical campaign claptrap from a typical dem politician , best of luck with it

ol "fire 2 blasts" & "shootem in the leg" joe is just as disconnected from reality as the dem leadership of the cities where most of the gun crimes occur, how bout attempt to fix up those messes first (hint: pew pew pew aint the problem)

"Until some on here with clout start calling out the lack of civility and the exclusionary/misogynistic/homophobic/racist comments our coalition with wilt away"

exclusionary is a new one, is it intended to replace another weak, overused insult or did you run out of space to type them all? there's several others you forgot but thread is still open, there's still time....remember to heel your sole

05-Dec-20
I think that’s what’s really frustrating. Every Democrat run city, Baltimore, DC, Chicago, NYC, San Francisco.

All have very strict gun laws. And that is where 99% of the gun violence is happening.

But they now have all the answers for the rest of us.

From: keepemsharp
05-Dec-20
Obidens gun plan will create lots of good, honest, hard working felons.

From: Owl
05-Dec-20
If I understand correctly, gun registration failed in Canada because there was no compliance and no enforcement on the local level.

If there is a regressive tax on guns or ammo from this administration, they will have to answer for victimizing the poor because we all know such policies disproportionally effect the lower end of the economic spectrum.

05-Dec-20
You are assuming you knew what Joe was thinking, and you don’t. Nice try though Justin.

05-Dec-20

Adventurewriter's embedded Photo
Adventurewriter's embedded Photo
Ziek you alluded to going to church naked..... for the love of God I would like to thank you for showing at a least a tiny bit of modesty

From: RK
05-Dec-20
Fun thread to follow. Lots of insight to various people

I never thought HFWL and GG would play into any of this. Oh well, been wrong before

Good stuff.

05-Dec-20
Hey, Nva’s back... ;-)

05-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

05-Dec-20
You are right Frank. There is no way I can correlate to a pedophile like Joe. So, I have no choice but to try and use his actions to cone up with it. I’ll take over your attempt to antagonize any day.

06-Dec-20
Justin,

Here’s where your argument falls short. There is a difference between lust and acting upon that lust. All men, save Jesus, have lusted. Most of us have controlled it.

All of it is sin, none of which gets a free pass. You simply are saying what you think Joe did is worse, and to me you are applying standards I doubt Christ will to say that is why you support trump over Joe. My position is we are all sinners and trump doesn’t get a free pass because of something I might think the other guy did is worse.

You only think it’s antagonism because it forces you to contemplate on a position you held dearly. That is what discussions like this are for IMHO.

06-Dec-20
Frank, I’m comfortable with what I believe. And, not all confused why I believe it. And, I was out spoken and honest my first post. And, have remained that way. Jesus himself talked about thus very subject. I’ll stand my ground on it.

From: Grey Ghost
06-Dec-20
Well, now we've gone from gun taxes to religion, and everything in-between. If we mix in a little football, we should have all our bases covered.

GO BRONCOS....BOOOO CHEIFS.!!

Matt

From: Tilzbow
06-Dec-20
Go Raiders!!!!!

06-Dec-20
Matt,

We are going to kick your butts tonight, again;-)

06-Dec-20
Justin,

Jesus said a lot of things, and we don’t get to pick and choose. I get tired of being hit with either the Bible or guys just aren’t men if they don’t believe what you do.

Not trying to antagonize. I am a big tent guy, the approach of all in, think like the hard right or else, ain’t working. Time to accept others who we may not totally agree with but will help us get more/most of what we want.

From: itshot
06-Dec-20
"Time to accept others who we may not totally agree with but will help us get more/most of what we want."

well said, frank

i will add: it goes both ways, it should also be shouted from the rooftops of every liberal bastion in our society

this ever leftward leaning experiment in freedom will eventually end up toppled without some righting, soon

From: Glunt@work
06-Dec-20
Compromise is fine. Unfortunately, for a very long time, the compromise has been on how much farther left we go. End result is always going left. Sometimes a lot, sometimes a little but always drifting left.

Start asking for compromise on how much we start getting back on the right track and I'm in.

From: bigdog21
06-Dec-20
you need to watch Paul Harveys .. (from freedom to chains)... it can be found on youtube.

06-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Makes it a year at most...

From: Milhouse
06-Dec-20
Harris called Biden a rapist...... while she was still trying to gain the nomination. Now they're fast friends. Politics do make for some strange bedfellows.

And for Harris, lots of 'em.

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Milhouse- Do you have a link to the video or a credible reference quoting where Harris said that?

From: itshot
06-Dec-20
ks, if / when the link/ vid is posted, what diff will it make for you? like, as if...

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Trax- do you have a video or credible link?

Itshot- First, I had not ever heard that claim before so I want to see their source. Second, cause I don’t take others word for it on an Internet forum...call me crazy. Third, if you’re going to make a claim like that (not opinion) then you should back it up. You don’t agree? Lastly, I don’t marry my opinion/views to any one party or person.

06-Dec-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link

From: itshot
06-Dec-20
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437107-harris-i-believe-biden-accusers

the verbiage will be parsed, lib style, of course, but she clearly said biddden is a racist rapist gomogypgone

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Itshot- Here are the 2 direct quotes in your source:

"I believe them and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it," Harris said at a presidential campaign event in Nevada.

“ He's going to have to make that decision for himself. I wouldn’t tell him what to do," Harris said.

I don’t see the word “racist” or “rapist” in either of those quotes. Hmmmmm...

HFW- Thanks for the fact check link.

From: Milhouse
06-Dec-20
Harris said she belived the allegations brought against Biden, by an accuser, who said she was raped by Biden. I do not "have a link", but I'm sure you got time on your hands KFLer..... you find it. Just don't come to me with Snopes BS.

From: Milhouse
06-Dec-20
Again with the semantics KS. Just like a Democrat. "I believe the accuser." ACCUSED OF SEXUAL ASSAULT. Jeezus you people would never call a spade a spade. Ever.

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Mulhouse- lol I’m not backing it up for you. I’m going to assume you can’t back it up. Wait...wait. I thought facts mattered to you? Did Harris actually ever call Biden a racist or rapist? Yes or no? If yes, back it up with the video.

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20

KSflatlander's Link
Semantics...facts must mean the same thing to you, huh?

There is a direct quote of Trump admitting to sexual assault but I can’t post it here because it’s against the rules.

So I guess both presidents (ex- and -elect) have been accused of sexual assault. One admitted it and one did not.

From: itshot
06-Dec-20
hfw, yah, great link, great job

i have yet to hear from cornpop or the bad boys he ran, maybe they know

maybe it was trump who, correctly, called him a racist and a rapist??

go fetch

From: Milhouse
06-Dec-20
Accuser: I accuse Shotgun Joe of rape.

Harris: I believe said allegations.

Is it calling Biden a rapist? Or just saying she believed that he was one? I dunno..... you figure it out.

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Itshot/Mulhouse- so I’ll take that as a an agreement from you that Harris never said it. I guess facts don’t matter to either of you.

From: itshot
06-Dec-20

itshot's embedded Photo
itshot's embedded Photo
your boy biden is everything you claim to despise...a lifetime plagiarist, liar, low iq, juvenile intellect, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, old pasty white cracker

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Itshot- that’s what you call a straw man. It’s also your opinion. Can’t fact check that...you’re learning.

06-Dec-20
Greg,

You miss us over at the nuthouse don’t you?

;-)

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
So you are mad at someone in the internet forum calling you out about facts. I thought you liked facts?

So did Harris actually literally say those things? yes or no? Or is it fake news?

06-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Creepy Joe...

From: Milhouse
06-Dec-20
In March 2020, Reade first publicly alleged that Biden sexually assaulted her in 1993, pressing her against a wall in a Capitol Hill corridor, reaching under her skirt, and digitally penetrating her.

Above is the accusation. Harris said she believes said accusation.

Now, I don't know if the accusation is true, or made up BS, but apparently it doesn't even enter into some minds, how during the race, one candidate could say "she believes the accuser", and 3 months later be on the ticket, with the accused, arm in arm. Seems like some crazy hypocrisy to me, but to libs..... nothing to see here. Move along.

Hell, you'd probably turn your daughters loose with him.

06-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Mulhouse- I agree it is absolutely hypocrisy. However, I don’t think your boy Trump stands on the high ground for being hypocritical or on treatment of women.

Is it hypocritical of you to blast Biden when multiple women have accused Trump of rape and he was caught on tape admitting sexual assault?

Ike- I’ll admit that last meme was funny. Lmao.

From: RK
06-Dec-20
KS and your spoon buddy. Relax You are to worried about something that just dies not matter

Your position is perfectly clear You and your spooner are loyal socialists. Your choice Good on you for being able to afford Biden and Kumala

We will all get to see what the next two years brings

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
How am I supposed to relax with the Chiefs down and it’s almost halftime?

I was just trying to be more conservative and make sure we only deal in facts. I’ve been working on that.

I think it’s itshot that needs to relax. He probably went back to his campfire for some more backslapping and spooning.

From: Milhouse
06-Dec-20
Who's blasting Biden? He ain't gonna be around long anyway. Once his handlers have told him who all his cabinet appointees are, IF he's sworn in as POTUS, he'll probably make it a year, year and a half tops. As far as "blasting" Biden himself, I'd just get straight to his dismal, do nothing of substance (except use his considerable political clout, to pad his and his family's wallets), 47+ years of ahem, "public service".

I'm questioning the convenience of Harris becoming his running mate, when she claims to have women's best interests in mind, when it would seem she has mostly her own in mind. Which I guess, in the long run, I shouldn't even wonder about, because at least I know very very few career politicians (Dems or GOP) have any interest in anyone's well being, other than their own, and those they owe favors to.

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
“Who is blasting Biden?” C’mon man.

“Which I guess, in the long run, I shouldn't even wonder about, because at least I know very very few career politicians (Dems or GOP) have any interest in anyone's well being, other than their own, and those they owe favors to.“

I completely agree. Trump campaigned on term limits and I agreed with him. I wish he could have got that done but I don’t blame him for not accomplishing it. Likely will never happen but desperately needed IMO.

From: Jaquomo
06-Dec-20
Interesting how the Left media twists stories to fit the narrative. Trump never admitted to groping or sexual assault. He was speaking rhetorically, saying if "YOU" are rich or famous enough, "YOU" can do those things. Which everyone knows is true because some women tolerate that behavior from rich, famous men. He never said "I". But facts dont really matter when "YOU" have a good narrative to spin about someone "YOU" don't like.

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-20
Speechless...

From: Milhouse
06-Dec-20

Milhouse's embedded Photo
Milhouse's embedded Photo
I'm just gonna throw this one out there, and probably sit it out from here. Because I actually think THIS is what sticks in most people's craw the worst. I want to be left alone, to live my life. I don't need more restrictions on MY personal freedoms, as a citizen of the United States. They are spelled out, in the law of the land, the Constitution. Is the Republican party perfect? Hell no. But GENERALLY, they keep their collective nose out of my business a lot more so than the Democratic party. New regulations, law after law, and what it all amounts to is that my own life is more restricted. I have personally had about enough of it, as I believe millions more also have had enough. The worst thing you can do is keep pushing people who have had enough, especially when we can watch these "officials" doing whatever they want, with complete disregard for the restrictions they try to place on citizens. THEY, are supposed to work for US. Anyway, good luck figuring any of this out.

06-Dec-20
Good post Milhouse!

From: Matt
06-Dec-20
Some of you guys are beyond hypocritical calling Biden out for his mistreatment of women. Either you are forgetting Stormy Daniels or bought into the Foxplanation suggesting that never happened.

From: Glunt@work
06-Dec-20
How did Trump mistreat Ms Daniels?

06-Dec-20
Good game Matt, better ending though:-)

Cchhhiieeeeffffs

From: DaleT
07-Dec-20

DaleT's embedded Photo
DaleT's embedded Photo

From: Glunt@work
07-Dec-20
Something I see as a possibility that I'm not sure the anti-Trump Republicans are seeing. Some believe that pulling support from Trump and running a more moderate (at least in tone and manners) candidate next time around will draw support to a kinder and gentler party.

If Biden is elected (likely), I see the potential for Trump and those that support him to take their energy and go third party. That would be disastrous for the Republicans since it could be bigger than any third party effort in recent history and there are no extra votes either main party can afford to lose.

Could mean either big defeats for Republicans if there ends up being a Trump third party or it could mean Trump having a huge influence on the Republican party due to just the possibility of a third party run and wanting to capture his supporters.

A lot of folks aren't done giving the middle finger to DC and the establishment.

From: KSflatlander
07-Dec-20
A Trump 3rd party wouldn’t last very long cause they eat their own. Meaning if you don’t go along or disagree with Trump (even a lie) you are the enemy. Completely not sustainable to run an organization like that IMO.

Bill Barr, Tucker Carlson, Fox News, Christopher Krebs, Brian Kemp are the latest victims.

From: Ziek
07-Dec-20
We already have a Trump Party. Let's try to get the Republican Party back!

From: Will
07-Dec-20
I'm actually really excited for the Tea Party to morph into the Trumpublican party or similar. I'm good with that. Though KS raises a good point. Then again, that may be the perfect dividing line we already see. If the only accurate and true statements are those uttered by current POTUS, then all others will be back in the good old GOP, vs the TP (Trumpublican Party, and wholly cow I just realized how perfect that abbreviation is).

Glunt is absolutely right though. Trumpublicanism, would siphon big chunk of GOP's new base and likely lead to a cycle or two of elections with a lot of chaos for the right side of the ticket (broadly, not just the GOP/TP). It kinda feels like that may be the needed wave though, internal debate on the right to figure out what it wants.

That Custer pic is a perfect meme.

Millhouse's point is a good one. The challenge (to me) is that there is a difference between personal freedom and personal responsibility. You need the latter to have effective experience with the former on the societal level. Pure personal freedom - even if viewed as an isolationist reading the Constitution - is essentially avoiding responsibility. Freedom from responsibility doesnt work. (And yes, I can point at left ideas and right ideas that would fall into that reality)

I ponder an extreme - though apt by today's standards - moment in relatively recent history - FDR coming out of the great depression. Had he approached that challenge as a pure personal responsibility or similarly focused strategy, it's very unlikely that our growth to maximal prominence on the world stage would have looked as it did. It's likely every person reading this would have a very different life.

I realize that's an extreme example. And I realize that while that was amazing work by the US Gvmt on behalf of the people, one could say that in years since, things have gone to far. Debate could be had there.

I just think it's really useful to remember that freedom tends to work best on a societal level when it's towards a greater good... Not away from personal involvement.

Debate over where the various lines fall regarding that are great. I know I wouldnt agree with many ideas here in some areas, and others wouldnt agree with me - and that, is great. Because if we have that debate, whether we change minds or not, we all get smarter and recognize the humanity of other people to a greater degree.

From: KSflatlander
07-Dec-20
Great post Will. Thanks for the reminder to remember other peoples humanity especially when we disagree. Well said.

From: Matt
07-Dec-20

Matt's Link
"How did Trump mistreat Ms Daniels?"

Attempted character assassination, not to mention the possible bruising if "he grabbed [her] by the p***y."

I linked a story about 20 other accusers of Trump in case you want to punch holes in all of those.

From: Whitey
07-Dec-20
People that don’t read a lot and only consume mass media ascribe Trump as the cause of a movement. It’s a completely false narrative pushed by those that want to destroy any such movement and pushed by small thinkers Society has been fractured into smaller and smaller groups because of the Information Age. That effect has been accelerated by the Internet. Here is David Bowie discussing it in 1999 starts at about 3:45 into the video. https://youtu.be/LaHcOs7mhfU All Trump did was recognize that a very large group of people both democrats and republicans were fed up with a new royalty class called “Government” intruding upon their freedoms with impunity and hypocrisy. He bundled up that frustration of many small groups into on large one what is clearly the greatest show on earth. He simply speaks in plain terms about complicated issues ,just like people do in their daily lives. It was refreshing to hear someone speak like a real person instead of a politician. There are lots of reasons why people of wildly different backgrounds like him. Is he a mess, yes just like every person, some are just better at hiding it. I love people that are individuals, people that stick their finger up at convention. Those are the people that change the way we do things. If Jeff Bezos just owned a book store like everyone before him we wouldn’t be experiencing the greatest shift in commerce since airplanes shrunk the world.

07-Dec-20
Good post Whitey. The moderate Republican and liberal Democrat loves to pin this on a cause. As if the fed up group is dumb sheep. The cause is the disease they spread. Not a guy chosen and willing to represent them.

It’s pretty bad that you can’t discuss anything without being labeled as a Trumpian if it doesn’t fit in with progressive ideology. Many here claim Conservative thoughts. But, they preach moderate to liberal ideas.

I’m so confused why that can’t be seen. I’m a conservative. Yet I’m called fat right. This Trumpian movement started because conservatives moved to the left and call themselves a Republican. It’s hard to define a whole group when half of them don’t share conservative values.

It’s progressed as government intrusion has over stepped. It is a result of that over step. Livelihoods and salaries have bought those conservatives off a long time ago. And, it now shows in their social outlook.

From: Ziek
07-Dec-20
Here is the gist of Trumps attack on the election:

""An election lawsuit by Sidney Powell, President Donald Trump's former lawyer, cites a witness who claims to have seen something strange with the votes counted in Michigan's Edison County.

Here's the thing: You can't point to Edison County on your Michigan hand. And not because it's in the Upper Peninsula.

Because, well, there is no Edison County in Michigan.

"In another case for Edison County, MI," the witness's statement reads, "Vice President Biden received more than 100% of the votes at 5:59 EST on November 4, 2020 and again he received 99.61% of the votes at 2:23 PM EST on November 5, 2020. These distributions are cause for concern and indicate fraud."" Pretty much the same as all the "voter fraud" alleged.

I agree with the majority of your post Whitey. I don't think he was the cause of the movement. He recognized it as an opportunity to enrich himself personally.

"He bundled up that frustration of many small groups..." Like QAnon, the proud boys, and religious fanatics that think everything is preordained (still don't understand why, if they truly believe that, they would be upset about ANYTHING. They could only be mad at GOD, after all. We wouldn't need ANY laws. Life would be just about sitting back and watching it unfold.), and any unrepresented group (of course, there are good reasons why they're unrepresented) that would support him. Add to those, Republicans who decided to give him a chance, and he won in '16. Why is it so hard to accept that the majority of voters now want to return to some semblance of decency, stability, and normalcy, especially in the midst of hundreds of thousands of citizens dying, because of a lack of, not only a cohesive federal response, but rhetoric designed to ensure more deaths. Just look at his rhetoric since the election he lost. 99% denial and how HE was robbed. Over a month and all he's said about Covid is; 'don't give Biden any credit for the vaccine'. Because, after all, it's always all about him. He's more concerned with getting what credit he can, than saving lives.

"I love people that are individuals, people that stick their finger up at convention."

As do I, if it's to confront convention itself, and not as a means to capitalize on it for self enrichment. If you also love those types of people, you would have supported Kaepernick. He did that for a cause, not for personal gain. Trump, on the other hand, used it to HIS advantage. He already had proved how patriotic he is by proudly dodging the draft and demeaning war heroes, but now he had a way to deflect that criticism. 'Look at me, when my country calls I stand up for the National Anthem, then under his breath; but I won't take one step forward. At least not until I know what's in it for me.'

As to the Trump/Bush interview. Anyone who saw it KNOWS he was talking about himself, and was bragging about it as if it was something to be proud of. Even more, Bush lost his career over it, and Trump was let off the hook by his adoring fans, willing to grant him anything, no matter how disgusting or heinous. Proud Trumpublicans, one and all.

From: Whitey
07-Dec-20
Ziek, Your opinions have been assigned to you and you don’t even know it. You use religion and other groups to tarnish the larger group you do not agree with. It’s been a classic tactic of post modernism since the 1920’s. The wealthy of the world used to be able to separate themselves from common people with expensive items far out of reach of the common man. That started to change in the early 20th century as wealth spread and more common people had access to nicer things. To distinguish themselves from common people the left came back from European vacations espousing the principals of French and German post modern philosophers. They declared God was dead and if you didn’t agree with them you were of a lower intellect and status. That then migrated to NeoMarxism. The left now uses these same tactics to declare themselves superior in intellect and therefore status. They learn it in the schools that have had all religious history of world civilizations removed from it. You’ve been programmed to think that way by the public school system. One does not have to believe in God to see the vast historical benefit of religion , specifically Christianity, on civilization. Only a fool would dismiss religion as a benefit to society.

“you also love those types of people, you would have supported Kaepernick. He did that for a cause, not for personal gain” You are not very good a comparing things,It’s ok most people are not. Lol he was benched and he knew he would never be a starter again. His contract wasn’t guaranteed like most thought. . Phil knight saw an opportunity to use race to protect Nikes largest source of future income from China. Trumps nationalism and trade war with China threatened Nikes future. Kaepernick is one of Nikes highest paid people. Kap is just like Trump he used useful idiots for personal gain.

07-Dec-20
Will,

Personal freedom and personal/societal responsibility do not necessarily need to be in conflict IMO. The problem rests with what approach is best for responsibility. As a conservative I want responsibility to be the charge of the family unit, their church, civic organizations or local entities. Others see an ever increasing and expanding role for the government, especially centralized government, and that is when the conflict with freedoms erupts, again IMO.

Trump and his attacks on the 'swamp' were really about an out of control bureaucracy that has taken on a life of its own at the federal level. They enact regulations for example that have not been passed by Congress. It is difficult for either party to make headway against the entrenched, career bureaucrats. Dismantling it will prove tough, if not impossible! Trump threatened their "tenure", and the evidence is conclusive IMO that it worked to limit him, and he made that easier by being the distraction he was on the personal behavior side. Too bad!

I mentioned I am a conservative, and these labels provide confusion. I am a fiscal conservative, of the Braveheart variety-FREEDOM. I have always distanced myself from social conservatives as I have never understood people who profess to believe in small government, but then want them to regulate marriage, pot, etc. WE see them here on this site, they really are not conservatives at all. And these people scare the hell out of me because they want their interpretation of the Bible to control our lives. I definitely have my beliefs, and one of those is I have the freedom to choose hell if I so desire. (I don't) It is not the government who must save me, but my own personal responsibility. See, we really have a difficult time separating the two, freedom and responsibility, and those social conservatives don't really trust others and their ability to be responsible, so they see a role for big government in that regards. Both the far left and far right want to erode our freedoms, neither is good at admitting it though.

Some great thought provoking posts here, thank you!

From: Matt
07-Dec-20
Am I the only one who sees the irony in defending and espousing religion while accusing another of having assigned opinions?

07-Dec-20
Trax,

Notice I did not use life in my example. For a reason. Issues are much more complex than the line you want to make, every time. Matt pointed out your fallacy.

I will go a step further, I did not even mention when my freedoms infringe on another's. Life is messy, and few have Solomon’s wisdom, myself and you included.

07-Dec-20
Nope. Religion is indeed what you are seeing when people apply degrees to dead set rules. You hit the nail on the head.

07-Dec-20
Scientists are at odds, heart beats, brain waves...abortions occur prior at times.

It is real messy, I am pro-life at both ends...no abortions, no capital punishment. Yet I believe Justin you are one who once told me the Bible does sanction capital punishment?

Yes I have opinions, and you don’t have to agree with them Trax just as others don’t have to agree with you or trump. It seems the trumpians are the ones who have the most discomfort with people not agreeing with them. Our greatest freedom is freedom of thought. Not surprised any more how you supposed conservatives attack liberals for forcing people to accept their beliefs, but your crowd are amongst the biggest name callers when someone disagrees with you. And yet you still can’t understand how trump lost by a landslide, perplexing really!

07-Dec-20
No Trax, you apply what you have assigned as conservatism. Libertarian is much closer to true conservatism than Republican.

07-Dec-20
No, unlike you I don’t need some entity to tell me what conservatism stands for. It stands for a limited role for government. Libertarians believe in that for both economic and personal issues. Republicans have warped limited government in economic issues only to mean conservatism in modern times.

You choose the science you want Trax because scientists do not agree when a human being begins after fertilization.

From: Matt
07-Dec-20
"Nope. Religion is indeed what you are seeing when people apply degrees to dead set rules."

Like Christianity, where homosexuals are damned to hell or all fine by god, depending entirely on the interpretation of the management of the person who stands at the front to the church on Sunday morning?

07-Dec-20
It’s pretty simple Matt. If you choose sin over acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, you are indeed damned to hell. If that hurts your feelings, that’s between you and Jesus. Not me.

I asked you twice but, you didn’t answer. Are you on Rokslide? You basically called me a liar earlier and have refused to answer the question. So, are you?

From: Whitey
07-Dec-20
“Am I the only one who sees the irony in defending and espousing religion while accusing another of having assigned opinions?”

No you are just not good at comparing things. So it looks to you like irony.

“Like Christianity, where homosexuals are damned to hell or all fine by god, depending entirely on the interpretation of the management of the person who stands at the front to the church on Sunday morning?”

Just like almost any other topic in life plenty of hypocrisy depending on who you listen too.. Its fun to watch anti types single out Christians though because that was the opinion assigned to them from a young age. Very few people understand the difference between religion let alone what the Bible actually says. Too much work. If your opinion was not assigned to you share with us your course of study in the Bible. Did you go into the actual Greek and Aramaic text and study the differences in translations into modern English? Or was it something you read on Twitter or saw while watching Bill Maher?

07-Dec-20
Justin,

Every one of us who have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior is a sinner.

Debating a guy who swears he knows conservative values, but uses a false registration, now that’s funny Trax.

From: Grey Ghost
07-Dec-20
Anonymity is such an emboldening thing, sadly. So glad Pat doesn’t allow it here.....oh wait....my bad.

Matt

From: TD
07-Dec-20
"I mentioned I am a conservative, and these labels provide confusion."

Yes. But not for the reasons you think....

Religion? There are many religions..... and many who think their actions are often not a part of one are totally blind WRT self awareness. Climate Change activists...... Social Justice activists..... BLM activists.... all members of an organized and highly socialized dogma. Religions. Actually defined religions, they have their gods, heroes, churches and leaders. And in many cases activists and zealots who justify actions that are unjustifiable. And decry all others outside their ropes as heretics. Would a religion by any other name.....

I hold no delusion of what my "religious" beliefs are. Mostly because I don't really care what yours or anyone else's are or that you should be made to believe mine. See: I don't care" above. Milhouse nailed it in a MEME above. I just want to be left alone with my God given American Rights. You are free to go forth and twist your life into whatever pretzels you like. It's your life... not mine. Leave. Me. Alone.

But they aren't leaving people alone.... and they won't. They will take away all you will let them get away with. By any, well.... any means they can get away with. Constitutional, legal, rules and measures equally applied don't seem to matter to those who want to take. And to control.

Seems a good many Americans are just fed up and sick of that. Seems that's where we stand. Seems that's exactly why Trump was elected. And that's why we fight. Not to get along..... getting along always means it's us getting along with what they want, it's their very definition of getting along. And not anything to do with them leaving me the hell alone.....

07-Dec-20
Trax,

Where did I ever say you must accept my values, my views, my philosophy? Please point to that specifically. I never have. What I have said is no one is going to tell me to accept or believe something I do not.

You are the one who does and repeats whatever trump says. I am the guy who predicted 6 months before the election he would lose. Easy to predict, because he, like you, resort to name calling when you have been shredded. No substance, it catches up to you.

Oh, please tell us again about the superior values of you trumpians who can’t even abide by the simple rules here. Now, go dodge and distract with name calling again.

07-Dec-20
The ACU you told us categorizes trump as the most conservative modern president, more conservative than President Reagan. They have their criteria they judge by.

Trump is not a conservative. He is a populist. That was admitted to above when it was pointed out he did not start a movement, he was the first to identify it and ride it. He has switched parties, switched positions on abortion because he does not have a guiding set of principles other than what is in it for him.

07-Dec-20
Great post once again TD.

I nominate Tom for the next president. He’d be better then Trump even.

From: Stix
07-Dec-20
Since Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, & Trump, I've hunted, fished, shot, camped, and enjoyed life. During and after Biden, God willing, I will hunt, fish, shoot, camp, and enjoy life.

Sounds like the Trumlicans on here need to get a life, because right now they've made Trump their god, and their lives revolve around him.

08-Dec-20
It’s beyond naive to assume people who say something, won’t try to accomplish it. It’s negligent to act in a way that would potentially prevent future generations from experiencing America. We’ve lost so many freedoms because previous generations acted this way.

From: Skippy
08-Dec-20
On The issue of the gun debate, those of you that want to say I don’t have any guns or I lost them in a” boating accident” you should probably get off that fence and pick a side. Riding on that fence will rub your balls clean off!

From: TrapperKayak
08-Dec-20
Stix: 'because right now they've made Trump their god, and their lives revolve around him.' Buddy, my life and many other supporters of Trump, revolves around my God given freedoms that Tump is working to preserve and protect, including our Constitutional rights and freedoms, especially 2A, which the Dems, mainstream media, and Pelosi, Schumer, Shifty,and the Squad (who cant seem to break free of their upbringing/lifestyle) are trying to eviscerate us of. THAT IS THE ARGUMENT, PERIOD, OF THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD.

From: Bowfreak
08-Dec-20
"Like Christianity, where homosexuals are damned to hell or all fine by god, depending entirely on the interpretation of the management of the person who stands at the front to the church on Sunday morning?" Faithful Christians do not find the path that God set before them through a pastor. They find their way through His word. Men will always fail you, God never will.

From: TrapperKayak
08-Dec-20
True that, but I will support men that protect what God made available over men who try to deny us of what God's entrusted us with...spreading his good deeds to others. America was founded on 'In God We Trust' , and the Constitution, and its up to good men ( people) to protect that for all, not deprive us of it. I support those who do.

From: TrapperKayak
08-Dec-20
IOW, I worship God, and I support Freedom fighters.

From: Bowfreak
08-Dec-20
TK, I edited my post to reflect where my comment was directed.

08-Dec-20
Our understanding of God will continue to grow/evolve if the former space program director for Israel is telling the truth that we and Israel have been in contact with space aliens for years.

Lighten up Francis;-)

From: TrapperKayak
08-Dec-20
Thanks Bowfreak!

From: Jaquomo
08-Dec-20
One year ago, if someone had started a thread predicting that some far Left politicians would soon close churches, schools, gun stores, restaurants, basically shutter entire cities, ban boating, nonresident hunting, arrest pastors for holding church services, but keep marijuana and liquor stores open, they would have been ridiculed off the Bowsite.

Now we have Biden threatening to use EOs to implement draconian firearms policies, and some of you are supporting him, believing it would never happen?

"And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak up"...

From: Rupe
08-Dec-20
Jaquomo, you nailed it.

08-Dec-20
Lou,

Who is supporting Joe? What many I hear are saying is they are tired of a drama queen in the White House.

And I would rather they be at home toking and drinking as opposed to out on the streets rioting. ;-)

08-Dec-20
Apathy never fixes anything. Only provokes further action by an opposer.

Drama Queen versus socialist agenda. I’ll take drama created by butt hurt individuals who feelings are weak over a shadow of America.

From: TRnCO
08-Dec-20
that's easy. If you're not supporting Trump, then you're supporting the opposite. You can't NOT support Trump and also say that you don't at the same time support Joe.

From: Ziek
08-Dec-20
"...prevent future generations from experiencing America."

Which America. The one that's been exploited by drilling and digging until there's nothing left to extract? Trump wants to drill in the ANWR, and tried to revive the coal industry. How do bow hunters and outdoorsmen support those policies?

As to religion and God; those are relegated to individual preference. They have NO place in governing a free society. Theocracy is the WORST form of government, no matter the religion it's based on.

From: smarba
08-Dec-20
"Which America. The one that's been exploited by drilling and digging until there's nothing left to extract? Trump wants to drill in the ANWR, and tried to revive the coal industry. How do bow hunters and outdoorsmen support those policies?"

For one ANWR is far from the pristine beautiful location portrayed by "non-drillers" - it's a mosquito infested remote chunk that nobody visits, and the area identified for drilling is a tiny fraction - what better place do drill and secure our sovereignty by eliminating our reliance on foreign energy?

For two, siding with Biden is likely to lead to a weaker economy, the downfall of a whole bunch issues far more important than hunting, plus heading toward no more hunting, including bowhunting. Maybe you disagree with Trump's policies. Maybe you disagree with Biden's policies. But to me the ratio is like disagree with 5% Trump's and 99% Biden's. Saying you're against Trump and supporting Biden is like cutting off one's nose to spite your face...

From: Glunt@work
08-Dec-20
It doesn't matter to me if Trump is a real conservative or a fake one.

What he does is what matters. I dont need his heart to be pure. I need results.

From: Stix
08-Dec-20
Pat, just doing my part to take this over 1000, but with the Trumplicans, my help isn't needed. .

From: smarba
08-Dec-20
True Glunt: Trump's results are what matters. Doesn't mater if one perceives him as a crybaby, doesn't matter if one doesn't like his tweets, doesn't matter if one is offended by his abrasive personality. Doesn't even matter if you think his face is orange...

Just like 2016 election when I discussed it with my sister. She didn't like either candidate: Trump or Hillary. Wanted to vote for a write-in. I told her I understood her position and concerns, but told her a write-in was a waste. All it did was open the door for Hillary to get in. It would all boil down to Trump or Hillary. If perceived as the lesser of two evils who did she prefer? The choice was clear. Still is IMO.

08-Dec-20
Trax,

Which trump record we looking at, the one now or before he changed his views as often as he changed his wives?

There are three branches for a reason. You trump supporters want a king, the rest of us like the system our FF set up. Here’s how it will work out...the left will set into motion over the next two years a House and Senate takeover by the Rs in 2022. The Rs will nominate for president in 2024 someone with similar positions to trump, minus all the personality baggage.

The Rs will then go too far and the cycle will repeat itself, again.

History does repeat itself.

08-Dec-20
Trax,

Experts don’t always get it right, correct? Roe v Wade? You don’t agree with that ruling.

Just like trump, accuse everyone of anything you want but when you do it, it’s ok. No wonder you don’t use your real name, you would be embarrassed to, and should be!

08-Dec-20
What he did is hand the White House over to a senile man and a possible communist. What should have been a landslide has turned into a joke by a petulant narcissist who refused to listen to good advice and shut up.

That is HIS record. We could of had four more years of remaking the judiciary, he prevented that. Rs are supposed to be the party of personal accountability and responsibility, yet all we hear is you blaming the press, the swamp etc. it is his fault Biden won!!!

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Biden is a communist...what planet do you live on?

Wanting more equality of opportunity to move between classes is not communism.

From: Glunt@work
08-Dec-20
I agree Biden is no Communist. I think his ideals on communism, capitalism, socialism, democracy, are all secondary and up for grabs.

08-Dec-20
I was referring to Kamala, who said in an interview she believes in equal outcome. Still don’t believe Biden will be there too long.

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
You got a link where she said that HFW lol?

From: Whitey
08-Dec-20
Biden is a corporatist that takes money from Communist China and allows them to take advantage of the US via Wall Street.

From: Jaquomo
08-Dec-20
What will be refreshing is watching the collective objective, unbiased media and big tech go after Biden and his family like rabid honey badgers, with nonstop investigations and daily sensationalistic lead stories citing "unnamed sources" and "people familiar with.." That will be awesome!"

Wait, what?...What's that you say?.....Oh, never mind. I was having a dream....

KS, why do you always ask for a link to back up statements? You DO know how to use the Google, right? Try this - Google "Kamala Harris equality of outcome" and voila, lots and lots of links, including to the video where she stated it.

08-Dec-20
Lou,

If you really want to see that, just watch FOX Programing in the evening. Notice I did not say Fox News.

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Facts matter, right? The last time I asked Mulhouse to back up his statement he couldn’t and itshot went back to his campfire for reassurance. Because they couldn’t back it up that makes it FALSE.

You just posted your frustration with made up stories and unnamed sources. Unbelievable.

Are you a hypocrite?

08-Dec-20
“It’s about giving people the resources and support they need so that everyone can be on equal footing, and then compete on equal footing. Equitable treatment means we all end up at the same place,” she said as the video ended”

I don’t know how else to take we all end up at the same place. If she meant we should all have the same opportunity, she should have said that.

And I did say ‘possible communist’ which allows for my interpretation to be incorrect. Don’t get all knotted up.

And Ryan, everyone recognizes we know each other. It’s OK to call me Frank;-)

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Thanks for the direct quote from a Twitter video she posted. I had not seen or heard that before. I’ll have to look into the backstory or follow up statements about it.

Frank- I didn’t want to tell all here that you hang out with a liberal who voted for Biden/Harris. If any of you are wondering, Frank always picks up the tab cause I like to use other people’s money and get a free ride.

From: TD
08-Dec-20
Reality is hard for some.

It's a binary choice. A: or B: That's it. No gray areas, A or B. If you DON"T chose one you have in fact and reality chosen the other. There is no third choice, no "none of the above" that one just means you let someone else choose for you. It's awesome and unique in the history of mankind we have the freedom and the right to make those choices, but once made.... own it. That choice is on you. It's called personal responsibility. Again, hard concept for some. Denying reality does not change reality. Saying you refuse Trump is in fact choosing Biden and all that comes with him. Own it.

Refusing to acknowledge something as simple as that is a leftist favorite, as personal responsibility and commitment is to many like garlic to a vampire. Kinda like arguing what the meaning of "is" is or that agreeing with a rape victim about who it was who raped her isn't "really" calling that person a rapist. They just happened to be standing in my way..... not my fault, nothing personal...... after all, it's not MY life that was destroyed.....

What really tosses a wrench into the gears is when a person or group decides that they are justified in cheating, lying and breaking the rules and literally take that choice away illegally or immorally. Justified in that they know what's best for everyone. Or they are mad in the pursuit of power and control. Those people are evil and put noble purpose to tar, feathers and flammable stakes.....

08-Dec-20
LOL. If I worried about what a bunch of people I don’t know think about me, then I guess a lot of what they label me would be accurate.

I don’t judge a person by their political affiliation, but rather by the content of their character.

Don’t think I have that quote exactly correct either, but good enough.

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
“Denying reality does not change reality.” So so true.

That sums up you, Trump, and every other election denier out there. That is the embodiment of most Trump supporters regarding the results of the election. You’re just too deep in it to see or smell it anymore.

I’m proud of you TD, you didn’t use “nothing to see here, move along” in your post. Good for you.

08-Dec-20
How about you know just to clear the air cause we all can agree half the country think the fix is in...because I'm a fair guy we just take 1/10th of the efforts...…manpower...time of the Muller Investigation and the impeachment silliness to dig into the suspected improprieties of this election....just 1/10...if you don't agree that that is more than fair.. then stop insulting people with this narrative that there is nothin there when it appears clearly to at least half the country there is a lot there... but my guess is this point will be ignored and back to the bumper sticker blather about sore losers....

08-Dec-20

Adventurewriter's embedded Photo
Adventurewriter's embedded Photo

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Adventurewriter- I get your point and have no problem with Trump taking his allegations to the court. His right and I’m all for it. I do have an issue with him or any others stating as fact that the was fraud big enough to change the election. So far he has lost all court cases. Laughed out of court by Trump appointed judges. Somehow I’m guessing that won’t be enough for him or others with the same claims.

Use all legal means at his disposal but stop with the conspiracy crap with no credible evidence that thus far hasn’t held up in any court. Affidavits of what people think they saw doesn’t cut it. He needs proof. And if he’s got it (as he claims) then take it to court.

This is what happens when you get a QAnon quack (Sidney Powell) filing claims. I don’t hear about her much anymore.

Trax- I agree. I hope it goes to SCOTUS. It’s the only remedy that I think some Trumplicans might accept. Maybe...

08-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Can’t wait for President Harris, then watch what happens...

08-Dec-20
Please don't try and be a I'm just calling balls and strikes guy when you post is ALWAYS infected with things like this..." Laughed out of court by Trump appointed judges." you really think that is true or does it make you feel clever..... just 1/10th as I said.... does it matter to you that without a proper's investigation not let's get this done in a week or so half the country's will lose all faith in out election process which can only lead to a full collapse in our system with zero faith in our election process...does that matter to you? If it doesn't it should and if it does you should fully support said investigation. When I taught investigations and had different trainees I pounded into them our search is not to fulfill our predesignated ideas but the search for the TRUTH. With that said There appears to be WAAAAY more apparent wrongdoings in this election than the nothings they launched the Muller investigations on using years and 10's of millions of dollars. People need to trust elections processes or it'll over the the inevitable full blown crash. Even though you think you "won" we all will lose and not just a little bit all of it...

From: Screwball
08-Dec-20
The problem will be when it goes before the SCOTUS and it is based on legality the election results maybe in serious trouble. Election laws were violated by states of that there is no doubt. If the court rules the result of those legal violations have affected the election results, the remedy could be to go to state legislatures for results. Which as examples, in WI, Mich, Pa, are republican controlled.

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Did I not say I support Trump in his legal process? Go for it. I clearly stated that professing conspiracies with no credible proof is not the behavior of a leader. He was pushing voter fraud conspiracies before a single ballot got was cast. Imagine if you or I tried that once at work or at home.

There are systems in place as a check on voting fraud. He’s welcome to use it but in the meantime don’t make public accusations unless you can back it up. Let the court speak for you. And if recounts and courts don’t go your way then transfer power peacefully as the majority of presidents did in the past.

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
You got a link to back that up?

From: Jaquomo
08-Dec-20
Ryan, I may be a hypocrite if I hold supposedly "unbiased, objective" news sources like ABC, NBC, CBS, CNBC, CNN, NPR, NYT, WAPO, LAT, Denver Post, BG, AP, Reuters, etc.. to a higher journalistic standard than Milhouse, lol! But as we all know, that's too much to ask. One publishes a fake story full of unnamed sources and opinion, and all the rest report on it as fact. Then when it turns out to be B.S., it becomes, "Hey, look over this way! Never mind that, we have something else for you!"

Can you imagine Walter Cronkite opening his broadcast with, "President Trump falsely claims we will have a COVID vaccine by the end of the year, but that's not true"? Nope.

From: Rupe
08-Dec-20
“ You got a link to back that up?”

Just reread your Commie comments.

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Lou- you can’t complain about false statements regarding Trump and give others a pass when they post false stuff here about the other side. You can’t complain about left bias news to only read and believe right wing news. If that is your reaction then it’s not the truth you are after but only affirmation.

I don’t like Trump and I did not vote for him either time. I have my reasons and they are not based on any news source. They are mostly based on his own words and actions and the words of ex-cabinet members who are respected by their peers.

I can fall in the same affirmation trap. That’s why I have many friends and hunting buddies that voted for Trump. Friends with many different backgrounds. Look at many different news sources but stay away from those who have a bad track record. It’s a good check in affirmation. Some here want to ostracize anyone who doesn’t like Trump. Too bad...that’s their problem.

Rupe- can you throw a football over that mountain?

08-Dec-20
Cleary KS simply loves the sound of himself typing...never seeking a higher clarity. I can only imagine in person...whoa that guy sure talks alot and never says much... whoa. Just blather I'm done wasting my time.... he cannot actually address specific points other than broad vagueness and chatter

08-Dec-20
Looks like the SC rejected the R challenge, with no dissenters.

08-Dec-20
Filed by Trump supporters, just to clarify, sense you didn’t....

‘The U.S. Supreme Court rejected a request by Republican allies of President Donald Trump to nullify President-elect Joe Biden’s election victory in Pennsylvania.

The rebuff came without explanation and with no noted dissents. It marks the first time the full high court has weighed in on efforts by Trump and his supporters to overturn Biden’s victory.’

From: bigdog21
08-Dec-20
looking at all these responces has made me think about a old Boss in his 80s, told me in 2000. we had seen the best and my mother know past away told me that computers will end the wourld . I see both being true..

08-Dec-20
Kamala Harris says she believed Bidens accusers. Yet she didn’t call Biden a rapist. You got a link to prove that? That might be the single handed dumbest post in bowsite history.

Drama Queen Trump cost himself this election. However, I’ve yet to really see any drama from Trump. Only those that opposed him. Say it ain’t so. I can’t. Nor can anyone else. Trump is an antagonist. Not a drama Queen.

Trump is a liar. Really? I have yet to see a lie. I’ve seen him say things that turn out wrong. But, never blatantly lie. However, in the last debate, I watched Biden lie outright. And the Trump administration posted videos within 15 minutes of him doing so proving it.

Trump is an abuser of women. Just ask stormy. A man who composed his cabinet and key positions with a lot of women. And settled with payment to Stormy. Seems to me if he had done as accused, they’d sure crucified him. Yet They tried in every way. But, people didn’t like him because of this. All the while giving Biden a free pass to fondle and impose himself on juvenile females. On tape!!!!! But, Trump is worst. You betcha.

It seems to me that most who didn’t like Trump made up a lot of reasons for their reasoning. Yet, a man who opposed him was worse in every way in those examples.

The best leader this country has had for all Americans, has been ousted because he made people uncomfortable. That’s what we got as a country. Unbelievable. We are indeed headed down a slippery slope.

From: Matt
08-Dec-20
"KS, why do you always ask for a link to back up statements? You DO know how to use the Google, right? Try this - Google "Kamala Harris equality of outcome" and voila, lots and lots of links, including to the video where she stated it"

In his defense, I have tried Google to back up one of Whitey's "irrefutable fact(s)" and I could not duplicate it.

I did however find lots of data that seems to refute it, which I realize is not possible because his statement was both irrefutable as well as a fact.

And I don't mean to single out Whitey because he is not the only one who has cited statistics in this thread that do not seem to be....discoverable...using traditional internet research methods.

From: Whitey
08-Dec-20
Probably because you use Google and they suppress searches of things they don’t like or move them back multiple pages.

Which facts are you referencing?

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Justin- I think you forgot about the post where you said you would never message or respond to me ever again. Clearly your post above is now the dumbest post ever...case in point.

From: Jaquomo
08-Dec-20
Ryan, on the contrary, I read, watch, and listen to both sides. I subscribe to a daily major city hard left newspaper, which used to at least attempt to be centrist, but now has swung so far that their national news stories come from the NYT.

We live in two nations. We have become so polarized that there is no objective news anymore. Even the Wall Street Journal has swung leftish. But the left influence has become so overwhelming, with OP-Ed pieces masquerading as news stories, that the typical person either lives in an echo chamber, ignores all the noise and just goes to work, or simply believes the mainstream garbage spewing from the from the evening news sewer, unquestioningly.

It is amazing to me that Trump got as many votes as he did, given the full-court press to destroy him for four years. Apparently a lot of people like prosperity, security, jobs, and America First enough to look past the idiotic statements he sometimes makes. Barry Soetero was (is) a gifted orator, rarely making a gaffe. Stealing a quote, "I liked what he said, not what he did. I don't like much of what Trump says, but I sure like what he did".

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Good post Lou. Not much I disagree with. Obama is president and Fox News starts chopping him down. Trump is president and MSNBC attacks him nonstop. They are just the inverse of each other. Both 44 & 45 did things I agree with and things I did not. Trump and the rights attack on science tipped the scales for me.

From: Matt
08-Dec-20
"Probably because you use Google and they suppress searches of things they don’t like or move them back multiple pages. Which facts are you referencing?"

The one about women voting liberal 87% of the time, citations for which I asked about twice. The most relevant data I could find from a reputable source suggested the number was just over 60%.

"We live in two nations. We have become so polarized that there is no objective news anymore. Even the Wall Street Journal has swung leftish. But the left influence has become so overwhelming, with OP-Ed pieces masquerading as news stories, that the typical person either lives in an echo chamber, ignores all the noise and just goes to work, or simply believes the mainstream garbage spewing from the from the evening news sewer, unquestioningly."

The bigger issue perhaps is that people would likely ignore unbiased news if it was available because it would not align with their world view after years of being fed news slanted toward their political leanings. Objective reporting becomes uncomfortable.

From: Whitey
08-Dec-20
Matt I answered. I said the comment was tounge in cheek. Further I said the source was Ann Coulter. I believe she also said the avg. liberal woman voter had blue or pink hair and a size 50 or larger ass.

08-Dec-20
A public notice statement:

I’m not addressing anyone unless I say a name. Opinions are shared by many. So I address points as a whole unless I name a particular person in my posts. With that in mind, this is an open statement for all to read. No one particular. However, it’s for everyone in particular.

From: RK
08-Dec-20
WV Mountaineer

Thanks for clearing that up

LMAO!!

From: RK
08-Dec-20
KS

WHAT science was being attacked. Link?

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20
Justin- so let me get this straight. You are saying that Kamala called Joe a rapist indirectly so it can be inferred. But then you post on something I said but it can not be inferred.

Clearly, a relative reality only you could create and think is logical.

I think my post is now the 3rd dumbest on your list.

From: TD
08-Dec-20

TD's Link
"Kamala Harris Promotes Socialism Two Days Ahead of Election: ‘Equitable Treatment Means We All End Up at the Same Place’" Not verbatim, but pretty close I'd say.

Duck Duck Go..... =D

A whole list of em if you search for Kamala Harris socialist.

There's a reason that headline isn't posted anywhere in Corporate Media. Was a time we laughed and shook our heads at State controlled media in Russia, China, Cuba, etc. How easy to see though. Such glaring lies they expected their people to swallow.... Now Global Corporate controls media and government(s). And bristle when they don't monopolize the narrative. Good. I like see a good bristle. But as proven in those countries.... a good portion of their citizens will roll right with it for a variety of reasons. Iraqis thought Bagdad Bob was da man.... even as they could see US tanks were rumbling down their streets with their own eyes. And the Bobs of the world don't lose a second's sleep over it. Well, not up until they are shot, but that's another thread...

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20

KSflatlander's Link
Here you go RK. Trump also said he was going to get the scientists to look into injecting disinfectants in the body or maybe use uv light. Now that’s a special kind of dangerous dumb. Don’t even try to respond that he was joking.

From: RK
08-Dec-20
KS. Have fun with all of this

Rupe was spot on

From: Glunt@work
08-Dec-20
UCS is quite a ways over to the left of center. I saw two very different "expert" opinions on Covid science regarding masks and schools being open. Both guys were reportedly top in their field, basically equal credentials. I don't know which was/is right. One was a Dr. Fauci and the other's name was Dr. Fauci.

From: Bruce Sugden
08-Dec-20

Bruce Sugden's Link
KS, you seem to like links. Try this one.

From: Glunt@work
08-Dec-20

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Far from proven or tested, but amazing how technology moves forward.

From: TrapperKayak
08-Dec-20
Zeik I have to say this. It wont meet your approval, but that blurb you spewed about the coal industry and ANWR is the most uninformed sounding bs that I would expect out of someone living in a yuppie-ized state where dope smoking liberals interpret nature and their perception of human impacts on it. Ive heard all that kind of nonsense when I worked in downtown Portland for 14 years as a fisheries biologist, from the 'new age scientists' LOL! The ones who wondered why I fly fished for steelhead and complained that I was ' hurting them'. I WAS hurting some of them, to death actually, the ones with the clipped adipose fins... :) But there's was more of the 'cruelty complaint'. Same level of ignorance I read in your post. Sorry so honest and blunt.

From: Jaquomo
08-Dec-20

Jaquomo's Link
UCS is so far left they can't even see the middle. Here's a great link explaining who and what they really are about, which is promoting a radical leftist agenda through selective "science" by excluding any dissenting opinions.

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20

KSflatlander's Link
“We would like to inform the public that there are no protocols to advise or permit the safe use of UV light directly on the human body at the wavelengths and exposures proven to efficiently kill viruses such as SARS-CoV-2,” a joint news release from the groups said.

Dr. Len Lichtenfeld, deputy chief medical officer for the American Cancer Society, said in a video published April 24 that UV radiation is dangerous and should be taken seriously.

"There is no evidence whatsoever that ultraviolet radiation ... has any impact in any way on preventing or treating COVID-19," he said. "And we have to understand that we rely on evidence. There is no evidence."

08-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Poor lil ol guy has no clue...

From: KSflatlander
08-Dec-20

KSflatlander's Link
Lou- you should look into who owns activist facts and who funds them. Weren’t you just complaining about bias media? You can read the first paragraph in your link and smell something isn’t right.

Ok, I’ll give you a real world experience I had with Trump’s war on science. Within the first couple months of Trump taking office and appointing an oil and gas lobbyist (Scott Pruitt) as the head of the EPA, they shut down many Department of interior websites. Because you know scientific peer reviewed information is bad. He also temporarily shut down the USFWS ECOS website. Full disclosure it was reinstated a couple months later. I consider that a war on science attempt that was derailed due to the pushback from scientists and congress.

08-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Lol....

From: Glunt@work
08-Dec-20

Glunt@work's embedded Photo
Glunt@work's embedded Photo

From: TD
09-Dec-20
That very push-back against over-regulation is the same way we are likely getting a covid vaccine done miles ahead of schedule and supposed to approved and on line in just a few days.

One might even venture to say "before the end of the year" which all those "experts" and the "science" that was being foisted on us (remember science? they are always just so unbiased and spot on)..... told us was impossible, couldn't be done. Because, well, because Trump said it might. Pretty scientific I guess.

Or maybe they'll hold off like the Global Corps held off on announcing they had a vaccine till what, 1 or 2 days after the election? Don't think that happened? You'll want to talk with Pelosi, she held off financial aid to hard working citizens who are losing everything for her political purposes. Admitted as much just a day or two ago. They might hold off just so the technical semantics and disingenuous word twisters can have their way with it just to say "it wasn't out before the end of the year"..... but make no mistake, when it comes out it will be "Trumps Vaccine". As heads explode.... (hope they have their skirts still up over them or it's gonna get messy.....)

It's also a big reason we were becoming energy independent over the last 4 years and NOT "necessarily skyrocket" energy costs as Obama/Biden promised they would do THROUGH their over-regulation using it as a tool to do so. Biden has promised to do so, end fracking, drilling, fossil fuel cars, etc. He lied about it in the debate (thanks ya flippin' "moderators") but he's on record for doing so, same as Obama was on record to do so. Same as Killary was on record to do so. Ya silly deplorables.... still clinging to your guns and religion are ya.....

09-Dec-20
Good one Glunt...Lol

09-Dec-20

Habitat for Wildlife's Link
Everyone should read this. There are so many inconsistencies to what people post here and what is actually happening in the courts.

Lou, been a reader of the WSJ for 40 years. IMO it has not moved leftward, the electorate has and many have a problem with that. The accusations of a leftward lurch are typically by those who detest when the paper points out the Emperor has no clothes, speaking about their semi-god Trump.

Speaking of the electorate, more than half in recent polls support gay marriage, pot legalization, and abortions in the first trimester. And the Republican platform is adjusting, my point to Trax about conservatism defined today is different than yesteryear. It will continue to drift towards what libertarianism was 10-20 years ago if they want to remain in power, and we know all politicians do.

Please read this and open your eyes to what has been transpiring. I will say it again, this is not about love of country, it is about one man’s ego.

From: Grey Ghost
09-Dec-20
Gee, Frank, didn't you listen to the Great Anonymous One? He said the elections were rigged by a massive covert operation by un-named "professionals" who are the best in the world, and they don't leave a trace of evidence of their illegal activities. You didn't really think an army of attorneys would be capable of proving any of that, do you?

Matt

From: Treeline
09-Dec-20
Interesting that no mention is made in that article about the current SCOTUS Constitutional lawsuit by Texas against Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...

At least four other states are joining with Texas.

Getting interesting.

From: Grey Ghost
09-Dec-20
Tavis,

The article discussed Trump/GOP backed lawsuits. The Texas lawsuit is independent of those. Not surprisingly, however, the Trump team is jumping on board with the Texas lawsuit.

Everything I'm reading says the Texas lawsuit is a Hail Mary, and will have the usual outcome.

Matt

09-Dec-20
Tree line,

Legal opinions I have read said TX has no standing in the other states. I don’t know, but will say this...your reaction is what we observed on just about all of the other cases in this article. People were adamant a smoking gun was found, now in at least 35 attempts the only smoke found was coming out of the mouths of the trump aligned attorneys.

I would be embarrassed to be one of the people who claimed Powell was such a great attorney. Not only was one of original filings ripe with grammatical errors, come to find out one of her alleged fraud actions occurred in a county that doesn’t exist in MI.

What did this team do, meet at a KFC to put this conspiracy together?

09-Dec-20
Matt,

Trax is perplexing. Bashes others for their opinions that run counter to the so called “experts”, but when his opinion disagrees with the election experts including our top election cyber security official, the AG, scores of judges from both sides including trump appointees, scores more of state election officials, some how his opinion is superior?

His anonymity begs questions on why would should believe him over the experts I cited. What are his affiliations and loyalties? Is he DNI? CIA? FBI? Or just some blogger who fancies himself a person of greater intellect than just us rubes, aka, an elitist?

09-Dec-20
Maybe this team of covert operatives that leave no trace were also involved in the Kennedy assassination and the fake moon landing!

;-)

From: elkmtngear
09-Dec-20
"Everything I'm reading"

Speaks volumes...

From: Glunt@work
09-Dec-20
Courts need something pretty big and solid when it comes to throwing out thousands of votes. If they toss PA mail in ballots, they are negating a giant amount of votes that people cast who were just following the system provided even if that system didnt follow the State Constitution. Judges dont like doing that.

Its a long shot.

Trump haters are piling on the "I told you so" angle and how he was rejected. He garnerned more votes than his last win and more votes than Hillary or Obama did in the last two elections by big margins. If the Republicans have someone else they believe can do that, I would like to see who it is. If they back away from the MAGA energy, I think they will have a tough time in 2024.

09-Dec-20
As opposed to hearing it on FOX or Newsmax like yourself?

From: elkmtngear
09-Dec-20

elkmtngear's embedded Photo
elkmtngear's embedded Photo
States running around their own Legislatures, to enable cheating? Yeah, it affects the whole Country in a Federal Election. Mountains of evidence to support that is exactly what happened, exactly where it NEEDED to happen. We'll see where this goes...

But hey...nothing to see here, right?

09-Dec-20
Glunt,

If it makes trump supporters feel good to say he received the second most votes ever, ok. But he still lost to the guy who received the most ever.

In agreement with needing to keep most of his policies, but delivered by a messenger that understands its about the message, not them.

In the primaries in 2016, that is what was different. His message was about the people he would help out. After winning, it became increasingly about his treatment being unfair, and it was. But then it soon became all about him.

That’s what has impressed me about Haley. She left quietly, has not been critical of him since. She recognizes the next candidate must court trump supporters. Wow, just think about it...his policies wrapped by a likable female leader. Can you just imagine how the press will TRY and eviscerate her? Try, because unlike trump she will fight back with a total class approach.

From: KSflatlander
09-Dec-20
“He garnerned more votes than his last win and more votes than Hillary or Obama did in the last two elections by big margins.”

But not more votes (popular) than Biden or Hillary in 2016. And he never ran against Obama.

They all had more votes than Ronald Reagan. See how that works? LMAO.

From: Ziek
09-Dec-20
Forget for a moment everything that went before. RIGHT NOW we have a desperate, pathetic President who refuses to admit reality, and do what he is mandated to do; ensure, to he is best ability, a responsible transfer of power. Or maybe that IS what he's doing. So far he hasn't proven very good at anything in his professional life. Makes me wonder why? Is it because he thinks when he leaves the White House, his next residence is likely to be the "big house"? Or maybe another country? Maybe he'll show us another first, a President leaving office in handcuffs. Oh, I almost forgot, he's the "teflon Don".

From: Grey Ghost
09-Dec-20
"States running around their own Legislatures, to enable cheating? Yeah, it affects the whole Country in a Federal Election. Mountains of evidence to support that is exactly what happened, exactly where it NEEDED to happen. We'll see where this goes...

You mean like the mountains of evidence the GOP had to overturn Arizona, like you posted early on? Yeah, how'd that go for the GOP?

Funny how the army of GOP attorneys can't seem to find these so-called "mountains of evidence" and put them in front of a judge.

Matt

From: stealthycat
09-Dec-20
sad thing is, Democrats soundly voted NO to Kamala Harris during the primaries. They didn't want her - her campaign got little money and support

crazy joe said early on if you're a man, you're not going to be considered for VP ... and if you're white, you're not going to be considered for VP

that he chose Harris is baffling, unless you believe Joe is a puppet and then it makes sense

don't forget what Joe said a few days ago ""Like I told Barack, if I reach something where there's a fundamental disagreement we have based on a moral principle, I'll develop some disease and say I have to resign.""

https://twitter.com/i/status/1334707972237193216

09-Dec-20
Actually Trax, the only one bashing here is you. Name calling seems to be the trump TDSers way (disciple).

Again, the ACU is not as much as an expert on defining conservatism as our cyber security chief, AG, yada, yada...are on election security, From day one it is you who has been telling us they are all wrong with you distorted view of what happened, but can never be proven because they didn't leave a trace but you found it, it was hidden deep... in trump's imagination. And now, we went from legal challenges to the only way this was going to work was legislators, which has not been done before. Guys like you keep morphing the story thinking people are too stupid to follow along as the versions keep changing.

Only one version from me, trump was going to lose the election, and either Biden or Harris will be inaugurated. I don't have to call anyone names or keep changing the story, I just point out how correct I have been and a wannabe super sleuth like you is just a pretender.

Oops, I think I just called you a name, sorry.

Not really, just trying my best to get this to 1000. If you could get some of your super sleuth buddies to post in agreement with your conspiracy, we should have no problem.

From: Michael
09-Dec-20
This election was about Trump and nothing but Trump. Trump failed at making it about Biden or the Trump administration success at policy. All he had to do was stay quiet.

If you go back to the first debate you can see how this election played out. He needed to let Biden talk. The more Biden talks the worse things get for Biden.

I think the media and there reporting was a 10 point swing in this election as well. Once again Trump doesn’t do himself favors there either.

Energizing your base to vote is one thing. Energizing the other side at the same time is another.

I wonder if the Trump legal team thought they would win these lawsuits or not. Did they push them to get the Republican state legislatures to act?

These lawsuits ended the way they did because a small county or state judge isn’t going to throw out any votes period. In today’s political charged age that would be committing suicide.

Did Biden hire 600 attorneys to fight the outcome of the election? I guarantee if this election went the other direction the same thing would be happening.

From: Matt
09-Dec-20
"States running around their own Legislatures, to enable cheating? Yeah, it affects the whole Country in a Federal Election. Mountains of evidence to support that is exactly what happened, exactly where it NEEDED to happen. We'll see where this goes... But hey...nothing to see here, right?"

What exactly is there to see here? WI's top 14 counties comprise almost 2/3 of the state's population.

From: Matt
09-Dec-20

Matt's Link
How are you champions of the truth feeling about the recent raid by law enforcement on the home of Rebekah Jones? If you recall, she was fired from her job with the Florida Department of Health for being unwilling to manipulate data to expedite the easing of COVID restrictions.

I presume that if FL had a democrat governor this would be a clear case of jack-booted thuggery, but am interested to see how this forum characterizes the events given DeSantis is one of the "good guys"?

From: Bowfreak
09-Dec-20
I miss the old CF, but this thread is like a car wreck. I keep checking it to see what happened, but it is horrible. These types of threads always devolve into the handful of people posting who always need to get in the last word. This is coming from someone who used to suffer in that area.

From: elkmtngear
09-Dec-20
"I miss the old CF, but this thread is like a car wreck".

Every little bit helps...let's get this Mother to 1000, so we can lock her up, lol !

09-Dec-20
Nice try again at calling names and distraction.

Shredded your inconsistent logic with half my brain tied behind my back. Now I’ll use other half for a breather.

Guys, Trax went from pushing the lawsuits to now it’s always been about the legislators. Those solicitations from the trump people could have come out and said that instead of pimping for $200 million plus while telling us how expensive it was to challenge all of this.

Trump people conned you out of $200 million plus. You know who I am. Who is anonymous? Does he benefit in any way with these flows of money, past and present, to the trump machine?

I smell a rat and same tactics employed by trump. Try and intimidate your critics. As an aside, I really would like to know what field you worked in Trax. You seem used to pushing people around and not liking to be challenged. That’s not real world, typically we see that in government work, yes, including education.

From: Jaquomo
09-Dec-20
If Nikki somehow becomes the Republican nominee in 2024, you can bet the "investigative media" will dig up someone whom she kissed against his will at a party in the 6th grade, and blow it up into a major scandal.

That said, I would LOVE to see a series of debates between her and incumbent president Harris.

From: DaleT
09-Dec-20

DaleT's embedded Photo
DaleT's embedded Photo
"you guys" can beat this to death, over and over again, but this is the bottom line

09-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
^^^ Kind of like this....LMAO

09-Dec-20
Interesting.... In addition to Missouri, the states joining Texas were: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah and West Virginia. All of the states were represented by Republican officials in the filing. All but three of the states have Republican governors.

From: Grey Ghost
09-Dec-20
Is that a surprise to you, Ike? My prediction is the SCOTUS will bat this Hail Mary lawsuit to the ground, and the game will be over.

Matt

From: Huntcell
09-Dec-20
a few more to 900 then its down hill from there, a 1000 by midnight tomorrow.

From: RK
09-Dec-20
GG. I agree

And then the bad stuff starts to slowly begin. Long 4 years ahead of all of us. For various reasons

From: Grey Ghost
09-Dec-20
RK,

I have a bit different outlook. With a split Congress this will be just another lame duck Dem administration, resulting in political stagnation, and a shift to the other side of the isle when it's over. Just as our Founding Fathers intended. Truly smart men they were.

I look forward to the next 4 years of basically no changes to the life I've enjoyed for almost 6 decades. The US is truly the best place on earth to live.

Matt

From: RK
09-Dec-20
GG. I AGREE best place to live for sure

If they elections in GA. Go the right way I agree with nothing But nonsense. If the election results in the Dems owning it all Interesting times.

I've got some good money on those elections. We will see

09-Dec-20
Yeah Matt (GG), but why jump on the band wagon if its a mute point...Get their name in the Headlines?

From: Grey Ghost
09-Dec-20
Ike, IMO it's just for political capital. You don't have to win a lawsuit to gain support. You just have to show your alliances.

Matt

From: Michael
09-Dec-20
I agree with you Matt. My only concerns is foreign policy. Biden hasn’t been right about much over his long career on that front.

From: Grey Ghost
09-Dec-20
Michael,

Agreed, but I'm not too concerned about that. A man that can't string 2 coherent sentences together without a script isn't going to have much influence on foreign policy makers. His handlers will try their best to make him influential, but in the end the world will cringe at his senility, just like I do, and nothing much will change.

Matt

09-Dec-20
It’s not as simple as R vs D in the House. Lots of at risk Ds in more conservative districts. A big shot across the deck in this election will help refrain some, maybe even enough, to prevent the more extreme legislation from seeing the light of day.

The electorate spoke clearly. Follow the money grabbers who continue to issue dire warnings.

From: elkmtngear
09-Dec-20
21 States have joined the Texas suit so far...just need Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, and North Carolina...that'll be half the States in the Nation.

Pretty tough for the SCOTUS to ignore.

From: Matt
09-Dec-20
Man, when pushed for answers to rebuttals to Foxplanations or uncomfortable truths, you guys sure get quiet.

09-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
Jeff, that’s a tough one for Biden/Harris to swallow also! Although ‘heels up’ may be ok with it....Lol

From: TD
09-Dec-20

TD's Link
History once again, just happened yesterday to those with short, little, or no memory. This didn't just pop up a day or two ago, this law suit started MONTHS ago. Illegal voting law changes in these states WERE challenged prior to the election and tried to stop them before breaking their own laws. Supreme Court at that time told them it could not be challenged at that time because prior to the vote they had no standing, no harm had been done..... yet. They had to wait. That was their ruling prior to the election. now we have harm, that's why the door is open, the court itself left it open, and that is what the states are going to court over. 17 states now if I recall.

I have no illusion that the outcome will be what Trump wants. Not because of the law. Nor what legal investigations would prove out. Or arguments that are going before the SCOTUS about the legality of changing the election rules with the wave of their hand. But because of spineless cowards and crapweasels who fear the outcome of such a decision more than the corruption it addresses. You see it here when some advocate more for "can't we all just get along" than even listening or looking at issues. Fear of mobs and violence. Some threaten civil war. They will find an excuse to drop things out of pure cowardice.

They might rule for the law, as they are sworn to, as they should. But likely will rule for order instead. Law AND order at this time are mutually exclusive. IMO that's a cowards way out. Burn the corrupt systems and political machines to the ground. Chips fall where they may. Deal with the mobs as any violent rioting should be dealt with. But most lack the will to see that out.

Hopefully this come to a head and gets some laws changes to make sure there are honest elections where honest votes are counted. Hopefully investigations put some people in prison. And get some honest systems in place with real transparency and full oversight. Instead of this "honor system" of people with no honor and corruption as a way of political life.

PS.... that "senile old man" is not going to be calling any shots. His handlers will. He's going back in the basement, just watch. He may not even make it that far..... investigations just now officially opening on Hunter and his dealings. Not just the clear Ukrainian hypocrisy and double standards, 5+ million in "forgivable loans" from CHINA with "half going to the big guy"..... Fang Fang probably didn't even have to sleep with him, them, whatever. Maybe she was too old for them anyway. China and the Corporate Left (becoming ever closer to the same thing) are going to be an issue, fresh sheets on the bed already. Don't know if its delusion or simply TDS insanity, all this was known by anyone who would see prior to the election. But you had to get up and go look, the corporate media made sure it was hard to see.

The very worst part, even if Biden is perp walked out in cuffs (OK, wheelchair...) then you just get Heels Up.... even worse. At least you know Biden doesn't really STAND for anything..... whereas she will DO anything....

09-Dec-20
Great post once again.

From: KSflatlander
09-Dec-20
Look at the Trumplican escape hatches and back doors being constructed as the house is burning.

Eat their own...have a light lunch because the conservative Supreme Court is dinner and it’s a big main course.

09-Dec-20

'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
'Ike' (Phone)'s embedded Photo
“ Trumplican” Got that from Stix huh...LMAO Lib’s! Back to the original subject...

From: KSflatlander
09-Dec-20
Says the guy who likes to post misogynistic meme’s created by others. So ironic. Good one Ike.

From: TD
09-Dec-20
Is there any "phobic" or "istic" phrases left you haven't tossed at people in place of facts and reason? Here I thought there were only 52 cards in a deck..... but I guess it's toss em out, pick em back up, shuffle.... repeat.....

Ike's memes have been funny as heck.... but apparently the rumors are true. The left not only doesn't "get" memes.... they have zero sense of humor.....

From: KSflatlander
10-Dec-20
Humor has intent and intent determines humor. Misogyny is not a scalpel.

I didn’t know cards weren’t reusable. Shuffling is such a waste, huh?

I have a sense of humor. I laugh at your posts every time. Move along, nothing to see here...I never get tired of that one.

10-Dec-20
Ahhhh, KS my feelings are hurt...Almost!

From: Rupe
10-Dec-20
Frank you said “ Agreed it doesn't take tens of thousands, but that is what the trump team proclaimed. So we are moving the goal posts again, it seems.”

Please provide links to where the Trump team has claimed tens of thousands of people were complicit in the fraud. If you can’t provide it then we can assume the other 99% of your nonsense is fiction too.

10-Dec-20
Rupe,

Why would I waste my time posting the wild fraud allegations when you deny what you said you would do if a civil war erupted even after your own words were re-posted.

You have me beat, 100 percent of what you post is nonsense.

10-Dec-20
I hope Rupe has the same standards with Trump he demands of me. If trump has not been able to prove his allegations, then 99% of Trump's nonsense is fiction as well, right? I might have missed Rupe's post demanding the same of the trump people?

Or how about I respond to Rupe that trump's team said what I posted, I just can't prove it because it was wiped clean by his operatives. Is that acceptable, or would you conclude it's nonsense?

Having the same standards is a requisite for an honest society. Reading some of what has been posted here makes me question where we are at as a country. So many profess to love our Republic, yet the direction we are turning as a nation appears to have many now willing to embrace authoritarianism. Give trump all the power, hand it to him whether by court cases or manipulating state legislatures because his direction is better than the founding principles of this nation. Ignore all the hypocrisy, and inconsistencies be damned.

Thank God there are still enough people willing to keep our country as founded, warts and all. And they spoke in record numbers on November 3. The majority don't relish a civil war, or stripping women of the right to vote, or are not modern era Luddites believing computers will bring ruination.

And the tactics we see on display are simply what history has taught dictators use...attack those disagreeing with you, attack them publicly and privately, do whatever it takes to silence them. And his team has to be laughing as you pay with hard earned donations for his takeover. Looks like we still have enough folks with sand in their butts to stand up to the people with rocks in their heads. And I am especially thankful of that during this wonderful time of the year.

Signed,

Frank Syracuse

Trump voter

From: Whitey
10-Dec-20
Rousing speech today Frank, did the guy in the mirror clap?

From: 4nolz@work
10-Dec-20
Biden is going to experience a 3 year investigation during his Presidency but in his case the story has legs as they say.It seems Democrats claims usually apply to themselves.

10-Dec-20
Thanks Whitey! My wife clapped, and she voted for Trump both times. Kind of puts a little burr in your thoughts about women being liberal, eh? And I have only been married once in case you are wondering.

From: Treeline
10-Dec-20
There is enough to immediately impeach him before he gets sworn in...

10-Dec-20
Glad to see Hunter's taxes are being investigated. It would be good if Barr appointed a SP so the investigation can carry on after the inauguration. I personally don't believe Joe knew nothing, but I leave the possibility given what we have seen of his mental acuity that he might be telling the truth, or at least thinks so.

From: Glunt@work
10-Dec-20
Crazy uncle Joe may soon find out that the media, who was a friend during the campaign, will suddenly start reporting on just enough things to create a situation where a single term or an abbreviated first term is in order.

He wont be villified, just put in a position where he feels he may have to step aside for the good of the country.

From: elkmtngear
10-Dec-20
Just in case you aren't familiar with how a Dominion voting machine works...isn't technology wonderful? :^/

From: 4nolz@work
10-Dec-20
It's a setup for President Harris....oops her ancestors owned slaves.. I feel woke.

From: Will
10-Dec-20
I'm just here to hit 1K. But it's interesting.

I do love how the "states rights are the most important thing in the world" crew dont like states executing those rights... Good times.

I have to admit, I'm in a fun place today. I'm thinking the Biden crew should file lawsuits against TX, AL, AK, IA, the Dakotas, Montana etc because CLEARLY Trump cheated in those states. I have, the same quality of evidence that this occurred that Rush, Hannity, Ingram, everyone on Newsmax/Breitbart/OAN/AltRightUniverse Radio etc possess regarding election fraud claims, so this should go just as swimmingly as challenges thus far. And, unlike the AG in TX who may hope to get a pardon for some stuff from the President, I dont have those sorts of things flying over my head. This is a legal challenge pure as the white snow that fell last week.

Look out, The Storm is coming! We can release a Kraken (again)! WWG1WGA - are you with me! Lets protect states rights!

That all said, I live in a blue state, and there for am (if you average the nation) less dependent on the federal government than many of the states I noted wanting to sue for fraudulent election efforts above. So, Ill add to that legal effort. I want their election results over turned AND my tax dollars not going to those states to support anything in them. Those states are more dependent on the feds - IE, red states, (true story) most of whom have low taxes (yeah, stay out of my wallet feds!) - should not get my tax dollars. Because, again, States Rights. I want to build some new bridges and fire stations and for dang sure support public education, and if some of my tax dollars are going to South Dakota and Kentucky, it's harder to do. So, no soup for you red states.

Now, you may be saying, Will, you are being a din