Just confronted Amish trespassers
Whitetail Deer
Sitting here in Ohio watching Tucker Carlson when I heard coyotes howling.
I turn off my TV and open my back door and it’s not coyotes. It’s coon hunters running hounds through my thickets. They knew I was alerted to them because when I walk outside my house all my motion lights go on. They were trying to scram but they were no match for my Bakcou Storm. I was on them in 30 seconds.
They were clearly hunting even though they claimed their dog got away from them. I got their names.
Neighbors had warned me these guys will run their coon dogs anywhere they want until they are confronted. That’s what I did.
Told them first offense gets a pass. Not the second.
How would you have handled it?
About like that. Hopefully there is no second time.
Depending on how LE typically responds in your area, I might let them know what happened and that next time you want to pursue it. Some places they (LEOs) care, and other places they don't.
Would have shot one of their dogs and hung it up on a tree and then tell them next time it might be one of them, Merry f-ing Christmas. Sorry , back in reality, I would have done exactly what you did. A pass the first time and then?
You handle it the right way, just hope they do the right thing and stay off your property.
I think you did it exactly right Pat. A stern warning and setting the expectation that trespassing is not ok should go a long way. Further issues should absolutely be met with serious repercussions.
Shoot thier dog? Your a coward to afraid to confront the guys. Pat you did the right thing
100% handled the right way.
I would follow up as Jaquomo Suggested with law enforcement, just to get a vibe on how they feel about what happened
I would have done the same thing, but I’d also follow up with your neighbors who told you this is how the Amish roll. Let the neighbors know and perhaps get some more advice from the neighbors now that you’ve confronted the trespassers.
I would have called the sheriff personally. I would set a precedence that everyone gets a free pass. Maybe consider not pressing charges depending on the situation, but I'd definitely make a bigger deal than a verbal warning only. I almost guarantee you it'll happen again.
The more I thought about, I came back to post what some other folks already have. I would call local LE and let them know what happened so that there is some sort of record of the first time in case there is a second time.
Flip to full auto and seed some down that away. Being careful not to hit anyone.
Handled well, but as others have said, notify law enforcement so if it happens again, it’s not the first time.
I think that you handled it well. A few coon traps would reduce their desire to trap your property as it would reduce the number of raccoons, as well as hurt their dogs if they were to be caught in a trap. I will also offer this......A local landowner found Amish trespassing on his property with the aid of his trail cameras. Since they were not caught "in the act", this landowner went into the Amish community and identified the name of the most senior male member of the Amish community. I don't know if there is an actual name for the most senior individual, but in this case, once the "elder" was identified, this landowner (an attorney), made it quite clear that trespassing was not going to be tolerated. I don't know if it was the threat of legal action, or if it was the visit to the Amish elder, but that attorney/landowner has never had another incident of Amish trespassing....at least that he is aware of. There are many different "sects" of Amish communities....some are quite traditional with no modern conveniences, other look the other way, and have cellphones hidden in their outhouses. Identifying what type of sect is in your community might also be a prudent initial move, regarding future courses of action.
As a follow-up to my previous post, I would also file a report with local authorities, so that any subsequent incursions would be treated as a repeat offense, versus a first time transgression. I have to ask, were you able to determine what caliber of firearm they were hunting with?.....just in case it wasn't raccoons that they were really after..... Back to the trapping angle for a minute. Check your state game laws, and if legal, tell them that it is a good thing that their dogs didn't get caught in any of your snares or Conibears......that'll wake them up. I am not advocating their use.....but an interesting scare tactic, if nothing else. Come to think of it...is your deer season still open? If so, I guess that I am surprised, as you would think that it would increase the potential for deer poaching. I would also let them know that you own a gazillion trail cameras, located everywhere on the property, and even though they don't flash when taking a picture at night, the photos are great - more than good enough to identify future trespassers.
My mother tells a story of waking up in terror to my late father firing a gun out the window into the darkness when they had their cattle ranch back in the 70's. After much scurrying around a voice shouted "Don't shoot Mr. Thornton, we're looking for our dogs!" Apparently the Sherriff had the night off and was coon hunting and after the dogs disappeared, their search ended up coming down my parent's long drive.
If they were kids/young folks....go talk to the parents and politely explain your view of what happened and that you do not want uninvited folks trespassing....especially at night. That way the parents know what happened and if it does happen again, you already removed the "parents didn't know" excuse. I would also let the local LE folks know so it can be documented. No need to press charges, write tickets, pay a visit or get in a pissin' contest at this point...just document it. Old military saying....if it ain't documented...it doesn't exist. If it happens a 2nd time and you have to play hardball....you already have some key boxes checked. Mi dos centavos......
I’d have shaved a couple of their beards off, just to show them you meant business!
I think I would have called in LE to show them that you are serious about keeping them off your property. Doesn’t mean that you had to press charges, unless it happens again, plus it IDs the perps to the LEO, so they will know them in the future, if needed.
“ They were trying to scram but they were no match for my Bakcou Storm“
This reads like a Rage Broadhead ad but I would’ve handled it the same way.
Don’t know how you could’ve handled it much better than you did. A call to the sheriff to fill them in might not hurt. Also will let The sheriff’s office know that you mean business if you have to call them again.
I'd trade coon hunting privilege's for cinnamon rolls and pie
Sounds like you did right Pat. Brought back my only confrontation with coonhunters in 1979 the first year married. Herd a noise and seen lights out by the chicken house so out the door with the 870 pump and nothing own but the old friutolooms. Never seen them again.
You did the right thing. The next time lower the boom on them!
You could always make a few pork chop sets with some 330 conibears
"I'd trade coon hunting privilege's for cinnamon rolls and pie"
X2....there is something to that!! Used to go to the Amish flea markets n So Maryland where they sold outstanding baked goods and dairy products...but I digress.
I would have got pictures of each to show the sheriff what happened and ask him to let them know he would be handling any more complaints.
Pat,
Not the same but it might help...
When we purchased our land we posted a mailbox of fliers at the entrance introducing ourselves and stating what our purpose was with the land. Included in that flier was a strict no-trespass policy.
One neighbor was a coon hunter and let his dogs run everyone’s land. I introduced myself and told him he could no longer due that on our land. He said his dogs cannot read signs or recognize purple paint.
I asked my CO to talk to him and advise he had an obligation to keep the dogs off. It created some tension, though I always remained courteous.
He sold the coon dogs, took up coyote hunting with dogs on properties a good bit away from me.
All the neighbors know the CO has a key to our property and I signed a form that allows him to prosecute anyone he catches trespassing. I have not had any problems.
GL!
You did the right thing Pat. I could have trained their coon hounds for a price. The coon hounds I train don't bark on private property. I was hunting with a guy and he said the hounds were going strong and then quit. I told him they were still on the coon, they were just crossing private property. My neighbor's wife called and said coons were tearing up her flower garden. I used apple for bait and set a live trap. I caught five coons and a red fox in a week. Couldn't use meat for bait because she has cats. when I would catch a coon, I would call a friend, that is a coon hunter. and he would stop at my house and pick up the live trap and leave another one for me to use. He used the coons to train his new puppy. The great thing is My tractor needed a new ignition switch and the coon hunter brought me a brand new switch with all the wires and didn't cost me a cent. He travels to several states repairing combines and great big tractors.
No free pass!!! They know what they are doing.
Only thing I’d add to what others have said is that I’d let em know i set power snares and all manner of coyote traps and stuff that a dog is most likely to get tangled in.
No need to go heavy handed the first time around. Normal people can handle most things without law enforcement. Besides, you may want to put up a barn someday.
Word gets out fast that you will prosecute. And that’s why they trespass because people let them pass. And I’d never hire a trespasser. If it was a kid, I’d give one pass.
Welcome to Ohio Pat...8^)
Feel for ya, but you'll likely have to deal with them at all times, just facts of life here, and you'll likely learn another vocabulary for them...8^) Remember those prior amish threads, they ain't so harmless now huh?... (Sorry couldn't help myself, that was a joke,,, am just joking)
Common issue been going on since time... Am not sticking up for the amish, but ran hounds and used to coonhunt as a kid, and hounds don't know boundaries, it's not the dogs fault, but YEAH, they shouldn't cut them loose them that close if they knew your sanctuary... Wars have been fought over woman and boundaries, just facts of life... You're gonna become popular locally...8^)))
We had another outfitter who would sneak onto our property with his clients. We knew he had trespassed before but couldn't prove it as never saw him first hand. Had a fresh snow and saw real fresh tracks going past the gate and keep out sign and into the property. Was late into the season and must have thought we were not around.
Took a ride in and one of the Outfitters clients were just coming off the land. Stopped and asked him whether he saw the no trespassing sign. Admitted he did. I asked him if the Outfitter was in there. Trespasser said that he left allready.
Called the Conservation Officer and he came out and measured how far vehicle's travelled into the property past the gate. Both outfitter and client had their own distinct tire treads. Was almost 1/4 mile. Can see where 1 got out to glass. Fresh snow was telling us all this. There was a turn around at open gate and keep out sign.
Outfitter admitted he did drive onto property but did not have a rifle so was only charged for Trespass by the Provincial Police. Outfitters diy clients had rifles so were charged with criminal trespass by Conservation Officers. Never thought twice about pressing charges... as we were trying to catch them.
I say the sooner they get nabbed, the better. I never bought and maintained my land for another outfitter to use... We never had a single trespasser this year as word gets around fast!!!
Put your phone on flash so when you took their picture the flash lit up in their face. The Amish supposedly hate their pics taken, then call the sheriff in the morn and let him know and ask him if he could stop by and let their elders know their trespassing will not be tolerated. Hopefully end of story !
It appears Ohio’s trespassing laws are VERY weak.
1. I would try to strike a deal with them. Let them hunt once a month. AFTER deer season.
2.Ask a local cop or conservation officer if they need a place to hunt.
3.Then if that doesn’t work. I would put snares everywhere. Placed correctly so deer don’t walk into them. And some hidden large solar powered motion sensor spot lights in likely key entrance areas.
4.Then lastly if all else fails. Go full Wyatt Earp on the dogs, then sell and go somewhere with real trespassing laws
WHAT IS CRIMINAL TRESPASS (ORC 2911.21(A)(1))?
Under the Ohio Revised Code, Section 2911.21(A), a criminal trespass occurs when a person, without privilege (permission) to do so:
Knowingly enters or remains on the land or premises of another Knowingly enters or remains on the land or premises of another, when the business is closed or area restricted to certain people – and the offender knows this Recklessly enters or remains on the land or premises of another, after they have been told to leave either in person or by a posted sign, or where there is a fence that restricts access Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave after being told to leave in person or where there is a “No Trespassing” or other sign posted restricting access It is not a defense to criminal trespass that it was public property. If access is restricted by a sign, hours, or in person (told to leave), you can still be charged with trespass.
It is also not a defense to criminal trespass that the defendant had permission to be there if they lied or otherwise deceived the owner to give them access.
O.R.C. 2911.21(A)(1) criminal trespass columbus
PENALTIES FOR CRIMINAL TRESPASS IN COLUMBUS
Criminal trespass is a fourth degree misdemeanor.
Potential penalties include: 30 days in jail (maximum), $250 fine (maximum).
If the defendant trespassed in snowmobile, off-highway motorcycle or all-purpose vehicle, the fine could be doubled.
If the offender previously has been convicted of two or more criminal trespass violations, and the offender used a snowmobile, off-highway motorcycle or all-purpose vehicle in each case, the court can impound the vehicle for a minimum 60 days.
Free Pass , those days are over for me dealing with trespassing . I get names and I get the law involved and I don't play games. It will happen again !! Goo Luck
You only knew they were there because of the dogs. I guarantee they’ve been there before and they’ll be back just sneakier. Next time I’d make an example of anyone caught in the act by prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law. If you don’t you’ll never have the deer hunting you’d hoped for. The Amish over near Pymatuning lake which isn’t far from you are RELENTLESS!
Been there and dealt with it, but not Amish. Take video with your phone while talking to them. Ask their names. If they refuse, threaten to immediately call the sheriff. Let them know the financial penalties for trespass and hunting without permission. They can be charged with both in one incident because I’ve been part of seeing it happen. Second incident of trespass needs prosecution without hesitation because they won’t stop unless forced.
I don’t blame the dogs and would not kill one unless it was damaging property or threatening me. It’s illegal to kill a dog in Ohio simply for being on your property or annoying you. Our county dog warden is my neighbor and we’ve had conversations about that topic.
Tell them to hunt curs. Curs have a much tighter range than hounds and much easier to stay legit. Besides, if they aren't treed, they check back in every 10-15 minutes. So, there's no need to go traipsing around where you should not be.
You were in your right and gracious, this time. By all means notify the authorities, both civil and the religious community.
midwest - That's too freakn funny...8^)))
nothing worse than laying awake in the middle of the night hearing coon hunters on the property and most of us have been there. just totally screws up the next day, or longer.
Well handled.
Nobody gets a pass on my lands. Hunters know the rules and land is clearly posted. Hunters are their own worst enemies, no wonder their public support is waning.
Send a letter to their elders. Allow some coon hunters on twice a year. We need hunters and it's good to share. Agree it's not the dogs fault.
The Amish are famous for trespassing. They're not as bad as they used to be because almost all the land is posted around here. They'll drive a woods out at 3AM if they think there are deer there. Bad part is they'll kill them all. In my area you can get three Doe tags so 10 Amish can have 30 Doe tags and 10 Buck tags. They'll keep hunting a area till they kill all the deer if given a chance.
A lot of them run their coon dogs at night to drive deer out of posted areas so they can hunt the property that's not posted next to it.
run a small ad that says you sell coon hunting rights for $5,000 per day. next time sue their azz for 5 grand.
I don’t think you handled wrong. Maybe they’ll respect the two strikes your out policy. I do think at a property you can’t monitor well I would have persued fines. Even if nothing stuck it would have sent a clear message.
Strangest trail cam pic I ever had. Turned out to be Amish coon hunting
Strangest trail cam pic I ever had. Turned out to be Amish coon hunting
Pat you got a big problem. Coon hunting on your land with out written permission is illegal and you might be able to control that. I think that you bought this land for deer hunting. You don't own the deer. When they leave your place Amish will take every deer, no matter the size. One to two year there won't a deer to be found. This is happening in our area. Put it up for sale and the Amish will buy it.
I'm mildly curious about the "coon hunting". Considering that coon pelts have been virtually unsalable for the last couple or three years. But maybe they just love doing it. Maybe they eat 'em. Or is it possible they were doing something else?
There's nothing quite as intimidating as being chased down by a middle-aged guy on an e-bike. ;-)
I think you handled it properly, Pat. Although, I'm betting this won't be the last time it happens.
Matt
You guys that say there won’t be a deer left by the time the Amish get done. I understand what you’re trying to get at, but I’m betting the Amish were in this area before Pat ever purchased the property. One of the reasons Pat bought this property (I’m guessing) was the abundance of deer sign he saw when scouting it.
Midwest ^^^^^ LOVE the Yoder toter explosion pic! ;-)
No first time warnings. Guys operate under the assumption that they will just get an ass chewing and so they don't think it's a big deal. I gave warnings for years and it never slowed down. Since I started prosecuting the word has gotten out and I haven't had a problem for a couple years. Be decent, take video and names and license numbers where possible. And then prosecute.
I'd call LE and insist on written warning the verbal is useless against these "christians"
No free pass ever, call the authorities and have them arrested. They will get the point and let others know that you are dead serious about not allowing trespassers. We have a local land owner who does just what I said and it only took a couple guys getting arrested and word getting out for it to stop. Shawn
Thwacked,
That made me chuckle a little. Referring to my property above I had a neighbor who felt my strict no-trespassing policy should not apply to him as he had been using my property for 70 years.
I informed him it had been for sale for a year before I bought it, he could have purchased it easily before me if he wanted to still use.
He responded he was not going to pay as much as I did. I told him I know you guys think us city folk are all stupid, but why would I pay for land that my neighbors wanted to use for free.
He had no response and hadn’t spoke to me since that happened in 2007, until this year when I asked him to kindly remove his heifer that had been eating my beans for four weeks.
I hear similar stories all the time. Before the whitetail craze took hold there really were no barriers to going every where one wanted. Now a bunch of guys are buying land for recreation and want a minimum impact, including wildlife sanctuaries. Families that have lived nearby for generations are still adjusting to the new realities. At least in my area progress seems to be improving.
“Interesting” responses.
As far as blowing out my deer that does not appear to be a concern. One hour after this incident my cell cams were sending pics as normal. Two hours after the incident one of my top shooters walked by a cell cam less than 100 yards from where I confronted them. Got more pics last night than any other night this week. I’m surprised.
I’ve been here since March and this is the first time I’ve had trespassing. The neighbors claim it’s not a problem around here. Even with the Amish coon guys nearby.
I’m guessing if I wasn’t here and had not confronted them they would consider it an open invite. Glad I was here.
Sorry to hear about your problem with the Amish trespassers. My land is in an Amish area and I have them as neighbors and friends. They have been good neighbors. I have had problems with trespassers but not the Amish. I one time when I caught them I gave their names and addresses to the Sheriff's office and the county prosecutor sent them a letter. That did wonders. Word must have gotten out because trespassing went way down. I am sure that you will do nothing to hurt their dogs as that is just not right. I feel that I need friends in the area not enemies.
Goyt, 100% agree. I don’t want or need neighbors that hate me. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. Sent a clear message and will see how that works out.
Messing with their dogs is stupid and ridiculous. I don’t need my tractor tires sliced or my barn burned down. And then you’d have zero support by the CO and likely get yourself in trouble. More importantly it’s just plain wrong. Some of you guys are unhinged.
Thwacked,
I made the CO chuckle because I asked how long do I have to give him before I could remove it myself. He knew what I meant.
Politely I followed up for my farmer to make sure his insurance company pays for the crop damage. Honestly, the incident helped the relationship. He is a very decent fellow and does keep his fence in repair. This was a rare occurrence.
Like others said above, it’s better to be on good terms than bad.
I think Pat handled this appropriately given the knowledge that neighbors usually don’t have trespassing problems. Not that my opinion counts, LOL.
I just did a quick search on trespassing laws by state. It's surprising how many states seem to make the offense contingent on whether the land is posted or not. Basically, no sign, no offense is how I'm reading some of these.
Matt
Mat, In Ohio it is not necessary to post land but it is a good idea.
I don't know, if it were me, I'd let them coon hunt, just work out the dates with them when not to. Less coons will help the turkey population. Who knows, maybe you'll get some of their awesome food in return, or a coonskin hat.
For property line identification...I know some states have a color code for what color paint to use when marking the trees. In Michigan, purple is the no trespassing color. Here is a pretty good article talking about these paint laws.
When I bought my property I posted it according to state laws. Caught a few trespassers . No warnings were given . After the the first 3 trespassing charges were filed and went to court and found guilty the trespassing issues went away. I’m the local asdhole and I wear the title proudly .
Heard a funny story a couple weeks ago. A buddy of mine met a guy . Apparently, one of the neighbors whose friend got citations for trespassing and killing an illegal turkey on my farm had given the guy my buddy met permission to rabbit hunt on his property but warned the guy not to get close or let his dogs run on my property because I was a crazy SOB . I just grinned
But, I was fair from the beginning. I went around to meet all the farmers that joined my farm. I told them that I bought it for hunting and wouldn’t be allowing hunting . I told them I wouldn’t be going on their land and would appreciate the same courtesy . I have them my phone number in case someone shot a deer and it ran onto my place . I just asked for the courtesy of a call first before they came onto my property. I’ve developed some great neighbors and have helped form a QDM cooperative. Other neighbors felt they could test me and it didn’t turn out well . I actually have good relations with all now except for one and we have learned to coexist and tolerate each other . He occasionally has a cow get across the fence and I help him retrieve it when it happens. Usually you will be tested. If you give an inch they want a mile . I chose not to give the inch at the beginning and it’s worked for 30 years and most of us have become friends now
This is the exact reason I would not want to be an absentee land owner. From now on they will just be more careful and make sure your not on the property in the future.
I think you handled it the right way. I dont think id notify the game warden or sheriff yet. Id put up a dozen or so No Trespassing signs, run a few more cameras & spray paint purple lines on boundary trees. They may not know what the purple means right away but theyll figure it out.
What are the trespass laws in Ohio? What are the penalties?
Someone have some info on that?
I would absolutely turn in their names to LE, ask that a report be put on file so if it happens again they can more successfully be prosecuted. Ask that it only be as a warning and you don't want them to be contacted by LE. Here in our county in MN the DA would not prosecute first time trespassing offenses, hence the suggested report.
I would then go to the compound and meet with the person in charge and nicely but firmly explain that you would like to be good neighbors and friends, but you paid a lot of money for this property and do not appreciate them trespassing and any future trespassing will be prosecuted.
Believe me, the Amish are not who the general population thinks they are. Like non Amish, there are good and bad amongst all groups. The Amish are money hungry and the one of the largest puppy mill producers in the US. They see dogs as livestock to be sold like chickens and hogs. I agree with how you handled it Pat although I may have used the Lords name in vain to make sure they understood.
Been there done that probably 25 years ago on our Tennessee property I did pretty much what you did it takes a little while to get the message across to the area can not remember when we had another trespasser good luck Lewis
My son in law & his Dad (on their farm) had an encounter with them (neighbors) during their DEER Drive. When son in law called them, no answere. His Dad called, no response. Later on my son in law went to their house & wife said no one was home but her. He said to her, I know thats not true. You tell him I want to speak. They are terrible & only own a few acres.
I have our CO’s personal phone # I would have called him and if he wasn’t on duty he’d get one on it.
No free lunches from me anymore. They don’t have the self restraint to obey the laws and stay off in the first place: get them!
Plenty of time to call the GW or LP. But de-escalation is what you want. Ultimately you want good relationships with you neighbors. You made a promise & they did too. If they break there's, keep your and make the call then. Hopefully you don't need to.
Pat, Have you considered allowing 1 guy and his small group to coon hunt maybe 2 different nights before the heavy rut and maybe several after? That way you have an allie that might protecting his right to use you land by not sneaking on for deer. That way you are not the out of state rich guy that does not let anybody hunt. Likely you would rather not have so many coons also. If that limited hunting does not impact your deer hunting it is a win win. That might take away any revenge issues that nobody needs.
We were on vacation & guess what.
ahunter, were they the drivers in the deer drive?
In VA, it's legal to trespass to collect coonhounds, etc. With qualifying circumstances, interfering with stated collection would put the landowner in violation of game laws and the state (Commonwealth's) Constitution.
I know I a lot of tree dog enthusiasts. Killing a dog is tantamount to playing with Quija board only without any of the mysticism. Whatever you subject yourself to is on you.
Owning recreational land remotely requires a higher skillset of diplomacy than merely trading blows. The absent party will always lose in the long run.
Couple years ago there was a reality based show on one of the cable channels called the "Amish Mafia". They were out of PA and had a group in Ohio as well. I say you go to war with these guys - then give us weekly updates. We need the entertainment - already been a long winter.
Wood guy ^^^^^Might even add a new twist to the blood trail challenge!
I would encourage you to enlist the help of Shug and ki ke....They ARE from Jersey, after all...
Thwacked1992, you should do a subject search. In the past, many have advocated killing dogs. I agree that would be stupid. And "pet" does not even skim the surface of meaning hunters have with their dogs.
Really hard to get anything serious done about trespass in Kansas. Pull some of the crap listed by the keyboard warriors and convictions come much easier.
Might offer to let them coin hunt after deer seasons. Otherwise, you’re pressing charges or suing them for messing up the intended purpose of the property -hunting.
Normally I would have done what you did but because they have a history of this according to the neighbors I’d report them.
Randy I see you and myself need to sit down for a beer summit. You with your low-calorie gluten free beer I'll be having a real beer. A cur over a fine blooded treeing walker coonhound? Seriously my friend?
Really hard to get anything serious done about trespass in Kansas. Pull some of the crap listed by the keyboard warriors and convictions come much easier.
Might offer to let them coin hunt after deer seasons. Otherwise, you’re pressing charges or suing them for messing up the intended purpose of the property -hunting.
midwest wins the internet today! LOL! too good..... that was funny, I don't care who ya are...
Pat, in Ohio, are you referred to as "that damned Yankee" or is it too far north??? I think my first 8 or 10 years in HI my name was "hey, f&^*in' Haole!" It'll get better in a decade or three I'd bet....
Assimilate..... you know what they say..... once you go Amish you never go back.....
It appears to me Trespassing in Ohio is a whopping $250 fine. So LE Would be a joke.
I’d try to let them coon hunt after season.
Diplomacy will make better neighbors then violence. You took the right approach and can adjust accordingly to how they take your warning. Glad you were there to catch em in the act & talk to them.
Good call. I would have done the same. Did you ask if they had permission on your neighbors or were they just trespassing on multiple people?
If my hunting property were 600 miles from home that would mean a lot of time I'm not around. I would try extra hard to have good relationships with my neighbors.
Well handled by Pat.
You might check to see if the sheriff is Amish before anything progresses.
Had a very similar problem with trespassers. They were running coon dogs on our lease like they owned it. 1st time we caught them we were very polite and civil. Just explained that we hunt the land and didn't want them running dogs on it. 2nd time I was a bit more firm and said this was the final warning. Also informed them I'd be setting coyote traps so they'd be better off avoiding the farm. Sure enough 2 weeks later the land owner calls me because a guys all pissed off as his dog is in my trap and he cant get it out. (MB 650s are strong!). I let his dog out and chewed his ass good. Told him next time I just keep the dog. They haven't been back since.
Dave, your Treeing Walker is a carpet bomb whereas a my Blackmouth Cur is a smart bomb. Both critters have their rightful deployment. Where a limited scope is necessary, a cur is the right solution. Where there is open opportunity, i.e. national forest, a hound is the meat-getter.
I'll argue this with you over beers any day. But you have to wear THE HAT so I know we are speaking the same language. lol
Who in their right mind would invite groups of guys on a property that’s was earned with blood sweat and tears? (and lets change it up .........) To shoot deer.....
Some people like to shoot deer, some bear, some raccoons. I guess its good all the property owners don't take this stance... there'd be very little area to hunt.
You got it!! I may have to agree to disagree but both will get er done.
I think you did right.. But if I wasn't a coon hunter then I may of set up a weekend with them to kill coons. Less coons means more turkeys. But on that weekend they would definitely come to my house to say there were here to get there one shot hunt. Come unannounced and you would be gone.
No pass from me. Prosecute and word will quickly circulate amongst the trespassers to go elsewhere.
You handled it well, but my experience with trespassers is that they will be back and continue to trespass until law enforcement gets involved.
glad i don't hunt or live by you people. growing up, we had thousands of acres that were shared by families. no one got worked up about other people hunting on their land unless you came through on open day of rifle season. now everyone is too greedy. not a big deal to me to let my neighbors hunt our property as long they are safe and legal.
city folk just don't get it.
Highlife, appearantly your ignorance is showing , don't know when someone is joking. A simple reading of my post and anyone with a lick of smarts would know it was a joke, you must of missed the last part of my post.
GDx.....I grew up on a farm, and have always lived in the country. If you want to let people onto your land, that’s your prerogative. If I only want certain people on my land, that’s mine. Makes no difference if the guy that owns the land is from the city or the country. If he’s the one making the payments on it, it’s his choice.
Make sure you have properly posted your property with "Posted, No Trespassing" signs Put a legal notice in local paper your land is posted
You handled the situation properly and respectfully
Notify local law enforcement of the incident and provide them with the names of the persons you encounter and that you advised them that they were not and are not welcome on your land.
If situation occurs again, pursue legal charges against violators.
Did I miss the part where Pat said the coonhunters were Amish?
Okay sorry missed the title lol
Jaquomo, they were in Bear Park, S.D..
I would also have shunned them! Basically you take away their candles for shining (shunned, past tense of shine). Making them walk home in the dark will teach them. They could take a stick in the eye, and no coon is worth that!
GDx...that’s the way it was and mostly still is in the small town I grew up in and still live. I ran all over as a kid, but there were a few properties that we knew were off limits. When I bought my property last year I posted it because there was a you guy who had permission to hunt the ground before I bought it and he lied to the previous owners when they told him to remove his stands before they sold it. He told them he got his stands out but he didn’t. Once I got possession I took them down, called the guy up and told him where his stands were and that he could come and get them but not to let me catch him on the property again. He took the stands right back out and laid them against the fence on the other side where he does have permission. He is still hunting around me but so far haven’t caught him trespassing, but if I ever do there will be no mercy. This kid is wanting to be a game warden and is a known trespasser and slob hunter. Unreal. Anyway, when I posted the ground I went around to all of surrounding neighbors and told them that I was posting the ground for hunting but that I didn’t care if any of them needed to be back there for anything it was fine with me. A few of the neighbors have kids and I don’t mind if they want to go play in the woods as long as it’s not deer season.
I had to look up what a Bakou Storm is.
If these people have a rep for doing this maybe a couple of them need to be knee capped.
Read them the 11th commandment, though shalt not trespass.
Before you get aggressive, make sure what branch of the Amish you're dealing with. :)
Thank the lord they was Amish, dread to think of the encounter if they was Catholic or Muslim,
Or ....forgive us as we forgive those who tresspass against us.
You handled it right Pat.
In Va long as I don’t take a gun or vehicle I can go into the popes yard and get my hounds ..right to retrieve law... don’t know about Ohio Tho may want to check...
AW Amish,, I hate their guts and livers,,,, sorry, couldnt resist my favorite lonsome dove line about sodbusters. I still would tell them to come back in January after the season was over and let them wear coons out. If I saw you earlier I would have you arrested. I love turkey hunting so it would be a win win for everybody.
Pat, I think you handled it in a very good way. Being the new kid on the block, you let them know where you stand without being an ace hole. Just a thought, it would be to your advantage to have a neighbor who you know you could trust to “watch” your property when you’re not there.
he has his Bowsite Buds doing that each week thru out the year. its the least we can do.
I lucked out and drew the week he hunts Kansas.
You gotta love it when a plan comes together ??
LMAO at Midwest.
Pat, for the most part the Amish are good people, but they sometimes think it’s still 1776 and America is wide open. You did the right thing. Heck maybe go Coon hunting with then one time. Explain it’s a one time deal, but you wanted to get to know them. Probably make some great friends.
*Stop the Steal. Democrats stealing the election
Steve, I agree the Amish are wonderful people. I’ve gotten to know several down here. I bought this farm from an Amish family and they told me they had no issues with trespassing except the coon guys.
I also hired a builder here who is Amish and the first thing he told me was that the local Amish will push it to see how I react to them when they trespass. His suggestion was to make sure I leave no doubt that I won’t tolerate it. And this is coming from an Amish guy.
Every person that has confronted these coon guys are given the same response “just came here to get my dog” so I told them that if it happens again they need to come to my house and I’ll escort them through the property to help them get their dogs, if they don’t do that then I’m pressing charges.
The suggestion that I let them hunt the off season? Not happening. Then it becomes ambiguous and the season here runs into February. No hunting and trespassing is unconditional for me. You give guys an inch and before you know it their cousins and their friends will be here. I like to keep things simple.
How about a handmade rocker for access they are just hunting racoons right
Pat, I will not even begin to share the stories our family has had as land owners. I believe you handled it right. I will add the majority of times we have dealt with this the way you have it happened again. We have Amish neighbors, some good some bad. Just like all other groups.
Mennonite's in disguise I suspect. Seen it right off!
Your first mistake was the warning, been there with my properties in ohio .
Warnings are worthless to LEO and these people
I have dealt with this in Ohio and I think I know the laws but things do change. You are not allowed to trespass to retrieve a dog in Ohio. You are responsible for your dog and if the dog trespasses you can be charged with trespassing.
Additionally the hunters in the group may change from day to day. They may not all know your rules. Next thing you know someone who tagged along is telling another group that he has a good spot for coon or coyote hunting and off they go. Next thing you know you land is in the rotation. I sleep about a mile from where I hunt so I could not hear the dogs running coons on our land at night. I did realize that our deer hunting got real poor after 11/10. I thought that it was all because of bucks with does. I would go in in the dark and come out in the dark that time of year so I did not see the dog tracks. It took until I saw a gal park at one of our gates and walk in that I figured out what was going on. She had lost a tracking device the night before and was back to find it. It took awhile to get her to stop trespassing. The sheriff department even warned us that we needed to be careful around her because she was nasty and they were concerned about her.
Even calling LE is probably a waste of time. So let’s think it through. It’s a 4th degree misdemeanor, so that means IF LE even responds, there would most likely be 2 visits from LE to the perps before even charged. So now after 2-3 seasons of them pushing the limits. They finally get a ticket
I doubt the prosecutor would bring charges on the first offense so back to the drawing board. Then after going through it for a few more seasons. They get a whopping $250 fine.
The only chance for success is if the perps quit violating on the their own accord.
I Hope I’m wrong. Hopefully someone in that same jurisdiction has experience with that particular LE agency and county prosecutor and can weigh in.
"Pat, Have you considered allowing 1 guy and his small group to coon hunt maybe 2 different nights before the heavy rut and maybe several after? That way you have an allie that might protecting his right to use you land by not sneaking on for deer. That way you are not the out of state rich guy that does not let anybody hunt."
RIGHT HERE^
You live a long way from there, it might be a huge benefit to make friends with some of them so they keep an eye on your place. Trade them coon hunting access for some of the great stuff they make. It's funny how many threads there are on here about people looking for access, and then other threads about how to throw the book at somebody who steps onto your property the wrong way. Whatever you do, don't be an ass, be a neighbor...
are amish trespassers worse than catholic or baptist trespassers?
Ohio escalates the penalties for trespassing fairly quickly. I like the way that they handle it. The first time does not cause a lot of trauma and soon they are looking at jail time.
Goyt, Wish WI did that, have one guy multiple times, roughly $245.00 each time. No big deal if they get one buck, cheap hunt.
Tell them next time you see them on your land tell them they'll have to put their barn raising skills to good use!
"are amish trespassers worse than catholic or baptist trespassers? " Nope. No better either. Some seem to think a culture, history, lifestyle or outlook should give em a pass with some things. Not just hunting.... bricks through windows, lighting cars on fire.... hobbies like that too. Nope.
I'm gonna guess those lamenting about "how it used to be" and such...... going out on a limb and assume you were on legacy property..... i.e. family land that YOU didn't purchase but inherited or just lived on your family owned. At least at that time. YOU didn't buy it yourself. With your money. That tends to add to the ownership level. If you were given a car at some point did you treat it the same as the one you bought out of pocket yourself?
Do you let strangers walk through your yard/living room where you live now?
People that are advocating for hurting a dog for just doing what a dog does make me sick frankly.
The human element on the other hand you are free to do with as you wish. You handled it wisely and well IMO Pat.
I would disagree TD and say that some of the most hateful landowners I have known are ones that have been given or inherited land. People that buy their own often appreciate the opportunity to share with others IMHO.
Pat, In Ohio, aren't you supposed to have written permission before hunting on someones property? The state even has a specific permission form that is supposed to be used....or is that just an exemption for liability?
Jake, you bring up a good point. In Ohio you can charge someone for hunting w/o permission and that charge is brought and enforced by the game warden. Written permission is required which removes that he said she said aspect. It is also a game violation. The other is option is to press charges for trespassing with is usually handled through the Sheriff Department. In trespassing charges the landowner needs to be more involved. In the hunting w/o permission charge the warden handles it all once the citation is written. Regarding liability the Ohio Revised Code protects landowners who allow recreational use of their land for free and it is not just for hunting.
I think you handled it appropriately, for what that is worth.
I think so much of the Amish stuff depends on the person and the elder of that group. I have Amish on two boundaries and have never had a single problem, but my land really isn't hunting land. It's completely open and tillable, with limited nearby cover. My nearest Amish neighbor has been fine with our limited interaction. We had beans in late this year and were actually attracting a little doe group. He shot one that crossed the fence, and asked my permission to go track. Which I was happy to give.
We've had no livestock problems or anything. We have more problems with loose livestock with our non-Amish neighbor who happens to be a cousin of mine :)
I've heard lots of horror stories locally, that I put a lot of stock in. Fruit trees completely stripped bare. Amish using a swimming pool to bathe. All sorts of things. But haven't had those problems with our neighbor. We generally leave each other alone but are respectful when we see each other.
I’d do a Cool Hand Luke. If they come in on certain areas I’d dump a whole lot of Cayenne pepper powder. One good snort of that and they won’t be trailing anything. It worked good in the movie.
Now they know they can get away with it they'll be a problem.The best book I ever read on human behavior was a book on training dogs.
It’s so sad today that the private property owner has so few rights and laws to protect them and their investment.
A person should be allowed to deal with it as need be. Then there would be one instance. One. But, political correctness has influenced society to the point, that owning land requires a commitment that purchase price and taxes don’t account for. It’s sad. It pisses me off. And, I can’t help but think it causes more problems for owners then most realize.
Clearly Pat should just bite the bullet and build a high fence around his property. Then he can round up all the state-owned wildlife and push them off his property. Once that's accomplished, he can bring in his own herd of genetically superior pen-raised deer, so that he can enjoy the true essence of horn porn.
;-)
Matt
WV Mountaineer, try evicting someone for a rental property. Talk about a screwed up system. Haven't gotten rent since May and just finally got an eviction judgement Wednesday.
Jay, my dad has rental property and has faced some of that. On top of having to repair what they mess up. The last time, had to patch every piece of sheet rock on the walls in the house. Every wall in the house was sheet rock too. It’s unbelievable to me how little respect private ownership gets in this country.
Any action out there as the season winds down
Horn Porn- a term used by terrible hunters to justify why they rarely kill a mature animal. Why would a guy take the time to draw a special hunt area if he didn’t care about antlers? How many people would actually hunt if the animals didn’t grow antlers?
"Horn Porn- a term used by terrible hunters to justify why they rarely kill a mature animal. Why would a guy take the time to draw a special hunt area if he didn’t care about antlers? How many people would actually hunt if the animals didn’t grow antlers?"
This ranks in the top 10 most moronic posts I've ever read on Bowsite. That's quite an accomplishment.
Matt
Lots of animals we hunt do not grow antlers.
What does this have to do with pays season on his new farm.
Onebooner and guys like him are the reason a large population of non hunters despise us and what we do. Yes I like big antlers as much as the next guy. I love eating wild healthy food I kill myself even more tho. Its a damn fun process also.
Wrong, Grey Ghost. It ranks in the top 5.
Glad to see the moral compass of Bowsite is back.......Where ya been, GG, tarpon fishing??
All those squirrels I killed as a youngster had not an antler between ‘em. I didn’t realize I was doing it all wrong !
No advice for the tresspasser problem here Pat. The only ones I ever had any interaction with got an olifield cussing from me. I’m not very diplomatic when crap happens quickly.
Not one antler on the dozens of bears I have shot, squirrel, partridge, coon, rabbits, cow elk, does both whitetail and mule deer. Now Jackalope I only horn hunt !
OneBooner-just remove the word 'terrible" and although no one admits it,yeah youre right.No one will admit it though.
would Pat buy a farm in Ohio if whitetails didnt have antlers? Nah.Theyd all be the same irregardless of state.
Same...Not the Dogs fault
Amish are notorious for the same here including being unconcerned with season dates and bag limits. mammals and fish
Ricky the cable guy, asks the question , are Amish trespassers any different than Catholic or other religious trespasser group members ?
IMO they are, the Amish do not integrate into the local societies they inhabit. Therefore many believe they are also exempt from local society rules. My local Conservation Officer told me she has ticketed many Amish and many of them are bad news.
Update. So far, the incident on 12/11 was the only time I had a trespasser. Went the entire rifle season, Muzzy and bow season without any issue. Neighbors are very courteous and immediate neighbors are really good about letting little bucks walk. It’s been a very interesting first season. I’m still hunting hard to the bitter end. Ohio is special!
Glad you came back on with an update Pat, was wondering how things were going. Interesting thread for sure!
I never realized the Amish "culture" was so lawless as some have posted.
Most Amish are not lawless.
Glad to hear you haven't had anymore trespass issues Pat.
I lived around the Amish for about 6 years in Lancaster, PA back in the early 90's. Met some good ones and some bad ones just like all people. I will say that I saw a blatant disregard for fish and game laws exhibited by a lot of the Amish. I also used to get a kick out of seeing their horse and buggy DUI offenses in the crime blotter of the paper.
Worst case... take out a camera and threaten to take their photo and steal their souls. :-)
Im not trying to start anything with this post but remember years ago I was hunting with a guide in Oakland, Maryland on the WV line. my guide was a local and always carried a axe handle with him going in and out of the woods which at first I thought was for the black bears, he said it was for the armish who would kill everything that moved and didn't respect anyone outside their group, they hunted where they wanted and sat in other hunters stands even after being warned but he said they were very disrespectful in the woods hunting out of season shooting skippers and fawns and thet they would shoot at any animal they could kill and he said they would eat stuff he wouldn't go near I remember him saying they would eat skunk if they could get a shot at it, he said they shot deer during archery with guns they didn't care. he said they only follow gods rules and listen to their elders and nobody else, he said they know their wrong and play stupid. I never saw any armish in the woods but I miss their homemade pies. I suggest just putting signs up in olde English stating the devil possesses all who walk beyond this point, they wouldn't go anywhere near that area.
