Mathews Inc.
Conundrum...Utah and Wyoming
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Fulldraw 18-Dec-20
Ollie 18-Dec-20
Fulldraw 18-Dec-20
sticksender 18-Dec-20
Charlie Rehor 18-Dec-20
Fulldraw 18-Dec-20
Jason Stafford 18-Dec-20
Twinetickler 18-Dec-20
Drnaln 18-Dec-20
YZF-88 18-Dec-20
WapitiBob 18-Dec-20
IdyllwildArcher 18-Dec-20
Drnaln 18-Dec-20
BULELK1 20-Dec-20
Zim 20-Dec-20
Mule Power 20-Dec-20
txhunter58 20-Dec-20
SteveB 20-Dec-20
pav 20-Dec-20
c3 20-Dec-20
txhunter58 20-Dec-20
txhunter58 20-Dec-20
Fulldraw 21-Dec-20
wytex 28-Dec-20
DonVathome 28-Dec-20
Tilzbow 28-Dec-20
From: Fulldraw
18-Dec-20
I know there will be those that can't help themselves but to be A-holes, but I don't know of a better source of experience than here... I have 12 points for Wyoming (I THINK I have the unit picked for those, Unless Ron Nizolek tells me otherwise :) ) but I also have 11 for Utah, and struggle to really understand my options there... Question is, what would YOU do? Take Wyoming this year, and continue to try a build Utah points? I feel like I am going to use these points, and most likely no buy points anywhere anymore...getting too old Thanks for the input... even from the A-holes lol.

From: Ollie
18-Dec-20
Have you targeted which units that you most want to hunt and how many points you need to draw? Let that decide which state to go for.

From: Fulldraw
18-Dec-20
Not for Utah... I have a unit that I have applied for, but not sure if I will ever draw it.

From: sticksender
18-Dec-20
As far as Utah, if you're talking about using points, I assume you mean for a guaranteed draw? In Utah, you have very few choices for early season LE archery bull with only 11 points. As far as understanding your options.....just glance at their draw odds reports to see which archery LE bull hunts you could've gotten with 10 points or less last year (listed under "#bonus permits"). The LE archery bull elk starts on page 187. Out of the total of 24 different archery LE bull hunts, there were only 3 hunts to pick from, that would've guaranteed draw at your points level. Other hunts could be drawn in the random draw (listed as "#regular permits"), and most of these are of course extreme long-shots to draw. You'll find that most of the best archery LE bull hunts (13 out of the 24 hunts) don't even offer a "bonus permit" to non-residents, because these hunts each have only one permit allocated to NR and it goes in the random or so-called "regular" portion of the draw. Thus, no matter how many points we have as a NR, so long as the allocation doesn't increase, we're unlikely to ever draw any one of those 13 hunts.

18-Dec-20
11 points in Utah is like having 5 points in Wyoming. If you want to use your Utah points take sticks advice on the 3 units you can draw now and be done. After hunting both states with an LE archery tag, WY is worth the wait and Utah is not. That’s my opinion and I hope I don’t fit your a-hole definition for offering my experience with both states..

PS: I had a great time in Utah and the people were great but the minimal tag numbers and point creep make WY a much better opportunity.

From: Fulldraw
18-Dec-20
Thank you Charlie... you Sir are the opposite of A-hole...

18-Dec-20
Wyoming you are a couple years out on a Utah tag..........

From: Twinetickler
18-Dec-20
If you are going to do Utah this coming year will be the latest dates you will have for the next 5+ years. Ending on 9/17. Nebo, Manti, Wasatch you would be possibly in the game on. Last year Nebo kicked out two bulls at or over 400 and several that I know of over 350. The Nebo only gets 1 NR tag which puts you in the random pool. Wasatch you should be close to a bonus tag. Check out Strawberry Bay outfitters they are all Wasatch bulls. I would say draw Utah this year with the late dates and Wyoming will always be good the following year.

From: Drnaln
18-Dec-20
For Utah with 11 points you'd have to be really lucky to draw a tag in 1 of the random draw units that only offer 1 tag or be kind of lucky & draw Wasatch Mountains. If you really want to hunt elk in 2021 don't just plan on drawing Utah!

From: YZF-88
18-Dec-20
The time between draw deadline and results for Wyoming is just flat out ridiculous and further complicates your decision. I recommend getting Utah over with and building enough points to beat the stupid point creep in WY at the same time.

From: WapitiBob
18-Dec-20
I apply every year in UT and with half your points. For the roughly $40 cost it's a no brainer. Their season is early enough to not cause too much disruption should you also draw another state.

18-Dec-20
What Bob said.

My view of Utah is that I'll put in for 7 species for 40 years there and hopefully draw 1 or 2 good tags. That's about as far as you can plan unless you starting building points 20 years ago.

WY is where you can actually make plans... for now.

From: Drnaln
18-Dec-20
!2 years ago, or so, Utah changed the NR draw system by allowing NRs to apply for all species. Before that NRs could only apply for 2 species a year. That was a huge change & most NRs now, including myself, do apply for everything in Utah. Lots more applicants have 11 or 12 points for most species now after that change. I have 25 Desert Sheep points but only 12 Elk, Pronghorn, etc points because of that change. Kind of watered down the random draw for everyone!

From: BULELK1
20-Dec-20
If ya decide to do Wyo, you can just do Points for Utah, and have a more solid plan for the 2021 fall hunt.

Anything I can do to help Dan, ya know you are welcome to reach out.

Good luck, Robb

From: Zim
20-Dec-20
You need to focus on Wyoming. With preference, reg/spec & high NR quotas you have a lot more control over your options. You got nuthin in Utah. Really just a prayer in the random draw.

From: Mule Power
20-Dec-20
Do you have a plan C if you don’t draw either? My goal is to hunt elk every year. You know you’re not hunting Utah every year. Of course probably not Wyoming either but..... more often than Utah. 12 points is enough for a great hunt in the Cowboy state.

So I would apply there for a license I know for sure I’ll draw. Then keep shooting for the stars in Utah while applying in the special draw in Wyoming hoping to draw in the random until your points get you a general license there.

From: txhunter58
20-Dec-20
I am in a similar boat. Except I have 16 points. I am 62 and wonder how many more physically demanding hunts I have left. Hopefully lots but you never know. But I come at it from the other direction. I plan a for sure hunt each year (usually Colorado) and then have to decide if I have time/ funds for Utah (never put in for Wyoming). So I have to decide between a lessor unit that I have a decent shot at drawing or continue to put in for the brass ring for a few more years. Hard choice but I have decided to risk a couple more years for premium units until I fully retire in 2 years. Once I retire, if I haven’t drawn, I will settle for a lessor unit. Then I will have time for multiple hunts in one year. If I get really lucky and draw a premium unit before then, I will find the time and funds to make that happen. For us it is most likely a once in a lifetime hunt, unless lightening strikes again

From: SteveB
20-Dec-20
I am 65 and have 10 Wyoming and 16 Utah. Kind of same scenario just a bit better off. Hard to know what’s best. Utah is like chasing the wind.

From: pav
20-Dec-20
Point creep in UT is just crazy. NRs had so much better odds when the rules only allowed an individual to to apply for one Buck & Bulls species and one Once in a Lifetime species. I was fortunate to draw my UT LE bull elk tag the year before they changed the rule. Bar none, the absolute best elk hunt I've ever experienced from a non-stop action standpoint.

My best bull to date was taken on a LE Type 9 tag in WY, but even that hunt was not remotely comparable to my UT hunt. Would like another crack at that WY area, but point creep there is no joke either.

That said, eleven NR elk points in UT really doesn't provide many options. I agree with the rest on focusing on WY in 2021.

From: c3
20-Dec-20
Lots of options on both your posts !!!

PM sent

Cheers, Pete

From: txhunter58
20-Dec-20
I sure wish they would change it back in Utah. Back to being able to apply for only one species.

And in reality we ARE only applying for one species. Because we can only DRAW one. If you are chosen for any of the LE hunts, you are removed from any other LE hunt drawings. So we have the illusion that we are putting in for multiple hunts, and have better odds of drawing something. But in reality our odds for drawing that one we really want (for me elk) go down dramatically.

Why do you think residents can still only put in for one species per year??

From: txhunter58
20-Dec-20

From: Fulldraw
21-Dec-20
Thank you all for the thoughts and Private Messages... and "NO AHoles"... this is why I get on this site... Much appreciated

From: wytex
28-Dec-20
Look over the Wyoming Hunt Planner carefully. One great area has some changes proposed that could affect both draw odds and pressure. Sure hope it doesn't go through.

From: DonVathome
28-Dec-20
Draw your WY tag, Utah tag later - definitely IMO

From: Tilzbow
28-Dec-20

Tilzbow's embedded Photo
Tilzbow's embedded Photo
Here’s an interesting chart and it’s easy to see when Utah opened up apps to more than two species. Those with 11 below are now sitting on 12, assuming they didn’t draw earlier this year so the line got twice as long when Utah opened things up 12 years ago.

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